Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Penelope on February 28, 2020, 09:20:32 PM
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Please make this known to as many women and men as you know!🌹
Imagine having all the symptoms of a major mental illness such as manic depression, paranoid schizophrenia, psychotic depression, or even a bipolar disorder. One day you wake up with overflowing physical energy, even feeling severely anxious, with a rapid heartbeat, profuse sweating, trembling hands, and diarrhea, and you can't stop losing weight. Then soon enough, without warning, your energy plummets. You feel like a slug, are constipated, your hair starts falling out, you gain weight no matter how little you eat, and you are severely depressed. You may have difficulty swallowing, sound hoarse, and feel like you have swallowed something that wont go down. And then, suddenly, your old symptoms return, and you feel anxious, sweaty, trembling, and panicky. This cycle can repeat itself again and again.
While your symptoms resemble a mental health issue, they could be signs of Hashimoto's thyroiditis, one cause of hypothyroidism. Hashimoto's thyroiditis, also known as autoimmune thyroiditis or simply ?Hashimoto's, is caused by an autoimmune disorder. In this case, the body's immune system sees the thyroid gland as a foreign body and begins to attack, damaging and killing thyroid cells along the way. As the cells are damaged or destroyed, they release their stored thyroid hormone, causing classic hyperthyroid symptoms such as anxiety, panic attacks, shaking hands, sweating, and a racing heart.
Each autoimmune attack causes more and more damage to the thyroid gland until, ultimately, the gland is no longer able to produce adequate thyroid hormones. Every cell in the body needs thyroid hormones, so a deficiency can wreak havoc on the entire system, causing depression, weight gain, severe fatigue, brain fog, memory loss, and even overall body aches.
With such a dramatic swing in symptoms, it's easy to see how Hashimoto's disease could be misdiagnosed as a mental illness like manic depression or bipolar disorder. And it happens much too often. A 1987 study found that as many as 15% of patients admitted to a psychiatric hospital for depression actually were suffering from some level of hypothyroidism.
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I agree stellajane. Thanks for posting this Penelope but it doesn't sound quite right. Where is this info from?
Taz x :-\
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I have a few of those symptoms,even the hoarse voice. weight gain , sluggishnes tired one day loads of energy the next, but have had several thyroid tests all clear, no anxiety, or depression though
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Hi Ladies I had this all to a T This has been my life since I had my last baby.Remember you do not have to have all the symptoms and there are always verying degrees.
https://www.holtorfmed.com/mental-illness-hashimotos-disease/
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Hi Jaycee I had a normal TSH reading for 26 years yet I felt exactly like the article explains.
Your Blood tests need to be
Vit D
TSH
free T4
free T3
Thyroglobulin
Thyroid antibodies
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Thanks Penelope. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with such severe symptoms. Hope you are feeling better now. It must have been really frightening.
Taz x :hug:
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Thank you Penelope, just seen the eyebrows bit on Stella's post, im losing mine and one is going pure white even though I don't have a grey hair on my head, my gps only do the basic thyroid blood test and don't do the vit D one x
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Thanks countrygirl it's the other tests that give the real answers!🌹
It is criminal that those with Palpitations- Anxiety - Panic attacks and so on are never ever given the correct tests and left to feel we are having breakdowns and it's all in our heads!
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Ah thank you Stellajane, I'm in my forties and still trying to work out what's going on with me Xx
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GPs deal with what the patient presents with. It's often the "By the way Doctor" statement as the patient leaves the Surgery that alerts a Doctor to more issues.
I wanted to know why I suffer with depression - no tests done, no deep conversations - simply that I am pre-disposed >:(
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Hello ladies
I have recently joined the Hashimoto's gang (yay me lol). I was diagnosed after I had Glandular Fever which can be a trigger apparently. My symptoms at the time of diagnosis were generally feeling unwell, cold hands and feet and puffy, sore eyes.
I can see how moving from hyper to hypo can cause mood swings etc but the hormonal fluctuations of the menopause can cause similar problems.
I haven't lost any eyebrows but some are coming through white which at 63 I assume is an age thing.
I still don't understand how Hashimoto's can be treated with anything other than a thyroxine replacement drug like Levothyroxine, but as I said, I'm new to all this.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Hiya.. very Interesting.
I've been losing my head hair for roughly 4 years. I wasnt in peri at the time and it was put down to stress as I'd had a bereavement. It's got no worse or no better. since surgical meno 18 months ago but...my eyebrows have now lost their "tails. And stop in the middle. And my eyelashes have become very short and sparse. It's happened pretty quickly. .My skin is also very dry despite getting my eastrogen up to a good level.with HRT
Doc checked TSH last year which was normal.
At my last yearly eye check he saw something wrong with the cornea. I was told I have Fuchs dystrophy.. It wasnt present at my previous test. So another new thing. .
another incongrous symptom since my surgery is shakiness, hand tremor which is worse in the mornings and consequently . I've now had "functional neurological disorder" added to my list by a neurologist . No offense to anyone but It seems like one of those labels for unexplained symptoms. A meaningless diagnosis.
By far my worst symptoms since meno have been its impact on my mental health. But next would be fatigue. I keep thinking it feels like when I had ME which I had afterI had Epstein Barr virus and shingles back in my 20s. So it's interesting to see glandular fever mentioned here.
I have had a distinct feeling all along that no one is joining the dots. You can have lots of tests but if they are not the right tests then you are left being told what it isnt but not what it actually is.
X
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What bothers me, reading reports from sufferers - is who GPs take a 'within normal result' as Gospel but rarely listen to the patient who continues to complain of symptoms. Is this to save NHS money?
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I totally agree with this! My mother was taking levothyroxine for 20 years then suddenly they halved the dose. She clearly has symptoms but her doctors simply won't have it that there's anything wrong. They just say, well at 85 you should expect to feel crap! ( in so many words!) I'm awaiting test results for thyroid function myself, so hoping it doesn't become a battle with the medical establishment!
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Is your Mum still showing symptoms, if so ......... >:(
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Hello again ladies.
The reading I've done included reports of the thyroid being erratic so a person can have hypothyroidism but experience episodes of hyperthyroidism. Add that to the mood swings of the meno and you have a horrible hormonal mess!
Tc - I wonder if the approach of diagnose first then test to confirm is at fault sometimes. I realise that doctors can't test for everything but as you say if the wrong test has been ordered no one is any the wiser.
Stellajane - I certainly have eyebrows, infact they would be hard to miss! I was a teenager in the seventies when the fashion was for very thin brows so we all plucked them mercilessly. Our mothers told us not to as it would ruin them but hey, what do mothers know! Turns out they were right and I have been letting mine grow in naturally for years. Due to the over plucking they have some gaps but on the whole they are as nature intended. I see the fashion now is to paint them on or is it micro blading and temporary tattoos? All of which is too much effort for me these days.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Just to second what Stellajane says about eyebrow loss - losing the outer third is classic for hypothyroidism. Mine are intact on stable thyroid meds & still plucked & trimmed to tidy, but at times when the dose has needed changing eyebrow loss has again been a feature - usually more one side than the other ::)! They've grown back each time & are currently symmetrical, but have thinned with age as sadly, have my lashes which as Tc has posted about hers, have also become shorter.
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micro-blading :o and painting in .......... mine are SO untidy due to threading 6 years ago >:(
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;D. speak for yourself :lol:
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Hi CLKD I have found out recently that doctors only test for TSH.
If it is normal then that is it you are normal.
And antidepressants are prescribed.
They have no further training.
Unlike doctors in the 1960s- 1980 that went on no blood tests at all but went on symptoms.
They would suspect thyroid and try you on medication to see how you went.
Before antidepressants were even given a second thought.
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It is up to the patient to be pro-active. To ask the GP for a referral to the appropriate speciality what ever the condition [male/female]. It isn't up to a GP to decide which treatment a patient has - if the patient continues to present with symptoms suggestive of, he/she has a Duty of Care to get the best possible end result.
GPs are hugely tied up with appt. time constraints and budgets. Many conditions of course cause intense tiredness which makes it hard work to press for treatment. I remember how I was simply unable to be forceful enough to explain how I was feeling when I was deeply depressed.
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Stellajane. Thank you. I havent said about my eyebrows to my doc yet. I will do. . I had 3 tests
In October.
TSH 2.34 mu/l range 0.27 - 4.20
Free T4 16 pmo/l range 12.00 - 22
Free T3 5.1 pmo/l range 3.10 - 6.80
So it all looks normal range.doesnt it?
Unfortunately my gp is one of those who does point to tests over symptoms. With my b12 for example the range is 191 - 663 and mine is 215. . she insists as it's normal range it doesnt need treatment. The fact that it's so low within the range and I have symptoms seems to make no difference.
CLKD. I agree about being pro active but it can sometimes be hard to do so when you are feeling low and vulnerable. I feel as though the fact I have mixed anxiety depression and EUPD on my notes is a convenient hook for them to hang everything on.
Xx
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It was like wading through treacle at times :'( and when I took my dog to the Vets I wasn't able to advocate well for her either :-\ :'(
If I was in a situation regarding thyroid symptoms I would contact my local Hospital and speak to the appropriate consultant's secretary for advice. Then hi-tail it to my GP ;) when well I'm Bolshie :-X
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My mum has asked to go back to her original dose but has been told that it would be harmful! She is 85 and was born before the NHS existed so she is of that generation who do what they are told by doctors! I have spoken to her Gp who seems very reasonable, but I don't know enough about the condition to get to the bottom of the issues. Her quality of life is so much poorer than it should be!
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MayB ask your Mum what differences she has noted and what she thinks would help? Put the ball into her Court so that she can make an informed decision? Explain that if differences are upsetting her it might be worth pushing for the other dose to see if she feels better?
Difficult if she is passive.
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Tests should be done and not simply remove a medication though :-\. It should be done under supervision?
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Wow Stellajane you are sooo lucky to have a doctor that still practices like the old school ones he is a gem and try to hang onto him as long as you can.
Yes I am saying antidepressants should be given after hormone therapy has been tried first especially in women.
I took antidepressants for 26 years that did nothing.And you here the same comments on this forum over and over that there antidepressants are not working.
90 days on HRT and I am finally getting my life back!🌹
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Hi Feather, I'm so sorry to hear your poor Mum's QOL has suffered for her Thyroxine dose being lowered. It is said we need less as we age, as Stellajane mentioned. I don't know whether your Mum has other medical conditions that might lead her GP to be cautious & reduce her dose, but either way I think I'd want to explain to him that I felt worse for his action if I were your Mum. But I do understand her reluctance to question his decision - my Mum was the same in terms of reverence for her doctors. A difficult position for you when you are understandably concerned for your Mum's welfare but the GP's attitude also seems reasonable to you. I don't know whether confidentiality issues might prevent him going into more details with you about his decision, but maybe see if you can get him to tell you why what he's done is necessary?
Wx
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Maybe get Power of Attorney which allows more freedom of medical sharing. You could ask the question of "Do older people need less X, Y, Z and why?" which may give an idea of why your Mum's dose has been cut?
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:thankyou: stellajane
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Hello ladies.
I know someone who has been told she must lower her thyroxine dose as it is beginning to stress her heart. She is 52 and has been taking 150mcg of Levothyroxine ever since she had her thyroid removed 15 years ago. Her GP has told her that they will begin lowering her dose at the end of the year. Needless to say, she is not looking forward to it.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Her GP should be referring her!!
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I got my blood results today and was surprised to be told that they are normal! TSH 1.3, ferritin 51 so what's making me feel the way I do?!! Kidney, liver and glucose all ok as well.
Got the results over the phone so will make another appointment to see Gp
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Ask for a referral? Maybe ring the appropriate Dept at your local Hospital and ask how to progress? Then speak to your GP ;-)
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Hi Feather call the doctors and ask them to email you the results so you can put them up on here🌹
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Went to gp again, described my symptoms and he asked me if I had any neck pain? I replied that I had (I've been seeing an osteopath for neck and shoulder pain ) and he said that he thinks tight muscles are obstructing the blood flow to my head causing the dizziness. He has prescribed amitriptylene as a muscle relaxant and it seems to be working! I'm also doing stretching exercises to relieve the tension
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I realise I'm a bit late to this, but the thread resounded with me so much. In the last year I've had two thyroid tests and both came back with T4 and TSH well within the normal range. Yet I had all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I decided to go to a naturopath and get a much more in depth test and surprise surprise I am indeed hypothyroid. My T3, reverse T3 and antibodies are off the scale! I'm now working with the naturopath to rectify this, and it may well be a long process. I'm optimistic though. I just think it's shocking that people can be fobbed off like that by their GP. I did ask for a more in depth test and was told it was unnecessary as my T4 and TSH were good.
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Yes, it seems to be a failing of the nhs. My NHS results were fine so I did a medichecks one that showed I had hashimotos and low vit d. How have they suggested you increase your levels? I'm increasing vit d as that is below range but so far it hasn't made a difference to how I feel, thyroid the next thing to tackle.
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Hi Sheila99
I'm taking something called T. Convert, a herbal thyroid supplement. I only started it a week ago, so I'll see how's it goes. I also take vit D plus other supplements. Will you be starting thyroid medication?
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My thyroid tests were within range but close to the bottom. I haven't been back to the gp yet so I don't know if she will prescribe thyroid medication. Vit d was below range so I've been waiting to see if the vit d pills make me feel better first. From what I've heard some people feel rough if their thyroid is within range but close to the bottom of it. Let me know how you get on with T. Convert? It might be another route for me to try.
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Yes I've heard too that even a slightly low thyroid can cause horrible symptoms. I had all the symptoms except weight gain, which sort of tricked me into thinking that I couldn't have a thyroid problem! My naturopath said the low T3 and high reverse T3 that I have is less common than the normal TSH and T4 problems. But hopefully it's still treatable. Anyway I'll let you know how the T. Convert goes and good luck with the vit D.
LaziRach x
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I'm a nutritionist with functional medicine training. DO take selenium and inositol for anti thyroid antibodies (ie Hashimoto's) as this can help stop the autoimmune attack on the thyroid gland. Plus ensure vitamin D at the higher end of the reference range. Also a gluten free diet is essential for a variety of reasons to complex to explain here but it will help ALOT to bring those antibodies down. Autoimmune thyroid conditions far more common than straight hypo or hyper thyroid disfunction but in the UK the NHS do not routinely check the antibodies so these conditions are not properly diagnosed and treated. Much you can do nutritionally and lifestyle wise to stop the condition progressing if autoimmune in nature