Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: littleminnie on January 23, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
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4 people in Scotland being tested.
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It's to be expected, the world is a small place these days.
Can't say I'm over worried. Apparently it's nowhere near as deadly as Sars, and that only killed about 800 people worldwide.
Higher chance of being struck by lightning but it will keep the gutter press busy for a while. Every cloud etc.
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As someone who works in a British university with approximately 10,000 Chinese students, all of whom live in this very small town, I must say, I'm concerned. However, I did notice today that campus was practically deserted. And this is accompanied by a deafening silence from management about infection control.
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As someone who works in a British university with approximately 10,000 Chinese students, all of whom live in this very small town, I must say, I'm concerned. However, I did notice today that campus was practically deserted. And this is accompanied by a deafening silence from management about infection control.
I think the 10,000 number must be a typo EW.
There are around 20,500 students at Brighton Uni, of which only 8% are international. Only a proportion of them will be from China, surely??
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No, it's not a typo. This is why the Secretary of State for Health has specifically mentioned Chinese students at British universities and several MPs have raised the thorny issue. What happens is that the students aren't registered at the Universities, per se, instead the institutions have set up international colleges with 'bespoke' degree programmes. Recent estimates suggest around 110,000 Chinese students in the UK (see the Times or the Telegraph), plus any dependants, none of whom essentially appear in openly available statistics. Of course, Brighton, as a town, has both universities (Brighton and Sussex - with close links to the CUHK) and numerous language schools. We're a favoured destination due to the pleasantness of the place and relatively low incidence of violence.
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I still don't quite understand. I got the numbers from Brighton Universities own website.
Where did you get yours from??
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The numbers you're referring to are for undergrad and post grad courses, yes? They do not include the number of students registered for other courses. Perhaps this article will help - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jan/23/uk-universities-issue-health-warnings-over-travel-to-china-coronavirus. Universities have now issued health alerts. And it would appear I under reported the most recent estimates, it's 120,000 Chinese students. If divide the number of students by the total number of universities in the UK (106) we arrive at an average of 1,132. Taking your example of Brighton, this would mean that virtually all the international students would have to be Chinese. As you can see, there's something of a hole in the figures, largely caused the 'hidden population' registered on courses other than undergrad and post grad. Obviously, some cities have more Chinese students, due to their popularity as cultural destinations. Brighton is one of these cities, I should imagine London is as well, and York, etc.
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Computer still says No.
The numbers table says 'all students'.
You are now saying 1,132, which sounds better, BUT, there are in fact 1710 international students at Brighton University. Of them only a percentage will be Chinese, and only a few if any, will come from the infected area.
Where does your original number of 10,000 Chinese students at Brighton University come from??
https://www.brighton.ac.uk/about-us/statistics-and-legal/facts-and-figures/student-population.aspx
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As I've previously said, you're looking at the numbers for undergrad and post grad students, which is why those numbers say no.
Kaplan runs UoB's International College - https://www.kaplanpathways.com/colleges/university-of-brighton-international-college/. None of the students who attend this international college are taken into account in Brighton's headline number, instead their courses are provided by https://www.kaplanpathways.com/.
Study Group runs UoS's International Study Centre - https://isc.sussex.ac.uk/about-the-isc. None of the students who attend this study centre are taken into account in Sussex's headline number. As they say on their website 'Study Group is the first private pathway provider to be accepted on to the Office for Students (OfS) Register of English higher education providers'. In other words, they're not Sussex, but they're on the Sussex campus.
And you're right, it's disturbing these figures aren't publicly available, and that our institutions have massive, largely hidden, private organisations embedded on their campuses.
Oh, and I got the number from the amount of student accommodation built and owned by Kaplan to house their students.
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That's all very interesting but these examples are not Brighton University, which is what you first said. The first is a pathway college and the second is Sussex University.
This may seem a petty point to you but I'm a bit of a statistics geek. For numbers to mean anything they have to be correct.
Actually even if you had said 'the total Chinese student population in Brighton is 10,000', I still wouldn't believe it. You have given no numbers anyway or where you got the 10,000 figure from.
In fact Brighton & Hove City Snapshot, gives the total student population to be just under 33,000, and that's all students of 16 years plus. A 10,000 Chinese proportion would mean that around 1 in 3 students would be Chinese. I don't think so. Especially as the overseas, non EU Percentage is only around 8%.
I really don't like the misuse of statics, especially in relation to health matters, which may cause people to be unnecessarily worried. With Sars there were only 4 PROBABLE cases in the UK.
Sorry but there it is.
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We have just had a confirmed case in Melbourne. The person came into the country from Wuhan.
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Deaths are being incorrectly reported. It is people that are already compromised: those with cancers, Parkinsons, or are being treated for other long-term diseases.
Any healthy person should take the usual precautions when there's a 'bug' doing the rounds. I haven't seen any reports on if those who have had the 'flu vaccine which is pushed by the NHS is likely to be less/more affected :-\
If one is going to invest in a mask make sure that it is a correct fit and that the person selling it to you has been 'mask fit' trained! ;)
Statistics can be manipulated depending on who is providing the funding or those who want Research Grants ;-) - think of the 'chocolate is good for you' - funded by British Sugar Corporation
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BBC News:
Tests in the UK on 31 people for the new strain of coronavirus have come back negative, the government has said.
"There are currently no confirmed cases in the UK or of UK citizens abroad, and the risk to the public is low," the Department of Health said.
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Report from China:
The coronavirus causes severe acute respiratory infection and there is no specific cure or vaccine.
Most of the deaths have been of elderly people or those with pre-existing respiratory problems.
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I don't think they should allow anybody from China into the UK until this is sorted.
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How can we stop them? Some will be returning from jobs abroad, others may be visiting or in College here. Or to a funeral :-\. We are aware and can take precautions. However, we don't mix much with others and certainly don't shop in busy Centres so hopefully, won't pick up any Seasonal bugs anyway.
Like most 'bugs' this will be carried therefore passed long B4 symptoms show. Some may be mildly affected which apparently is normal for this virus, others with compromised immune systems or on long-term medical treatment or cancer treatment may well be really ill. The NHS is ready as well as it can be .............
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? even Smallpox ?
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Maybe a Germ escaped?
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They say it has come from eating bats,have you seen the video of the woman eating a bat, hopefully this will stop the cruelty and
the barbaric treatment of cats and dogs and the way they are killed,it's heartbreaking to see how these poor animals are treated >:( >:(
Maybe it's karma
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They say it has come from eating bats,have you seen the video of the woman eating a bat, hopefully this will stop the cruelty and
the barbaric treatment of cats and dogs and the way they are killed,it's heartbreaking to see how these poor animals are treated >:( >:(
Maybe it's karma
Oh, that's extremely harsh jaycee.
There will be a lot of perfectly innocent people infected, who have not done any such thing. :o
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I'd never heard of Wuhan till all this erupted. Interesting that it's the site of a biosafety lab housing some of the world's most deadly illnesses.
Can only find this in the Daily Wail. Enough said really. Selling papers is more important and any actual evidence of bad practice. ::)
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? even Smallpox ?
Only Russian and the US have the last remaining virus stocks.
Not sure who I trust less.
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It was kept in Southampton 4 a while ::). In case it mutates. There was fear that terrorists would get hold of samples :o. Probably the US. Actually ::)
We don't know how others live with regards foods. FinL was a prisoner of War and would eat anything that he could catch, I didn't hear bats mentioned though. I would expect that there isn't much on them even the fruit bats and I imagine them to be bitter to taste.
Korea doesn't have a good record with regards what they eat. Or how they treat animals. It's like the pebble dropped into a puddle, start educationing locally!
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The French eat song birds, the Norwegians whales. We eat shot game birds. None of it very nice but I wouldn't wish harm on people for it.
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Ah but game birds are bred for the shoot. Been there, done that.
French take wild birds from the air. Whales should be left in the sea ;-). - new thread?
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Hello ladies
It seems that everything possible is being done to control the spread of the virus so we just have to sit tight and hope for the best.
If you want examples of animal cruelty you need look no further than factory farming. This not only affects chickens and turkeys but other livestock as well. The capture and consumption of animals is big business world wide and every society has it's own customs and viruses jumping from animals to humans is nothing new sadly.
Wishing you all well ladies.
K.
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Just to put peoples mind at rest and to dispel the misinformation available online, please check this out. It just proves what a lot of rubbish is out there and how it can unnecessarily worry people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-51271037
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Coronavirus: UK warns against travel to China
1 min. BBC
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Well that's a no brainer. ::)
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I wasn't going anyway ;D
Read your article too - fake news abounds.
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Ah well, if the good ole BBC says it then it must be correct!
Not necessarily, but there is less chance of fake news just to sell copy.
My mantra is trust nothing but do as much research to make your own judgement.
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I don't think it's harsh at all, and i'm not wishing harm on anyone, just saying that where this virus originated is one of the places that animals are blowtorched and boiled alive ,and the dogs they catch or any animal could be riddled with disease,and hopefully lessons will be learned,
There are many videos on the internet of how those poor animals are killed and it's barbaric
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I don't think it's harsh at all, and i'm not wishing harm on anyone, just saying that where this virus originated is one of the places that animals are blowtorched and boiled alive ,and the dogs they catch or any animal could be riddled with disease,and hopefully lessons will be learned,
There are many videos on the internet of how those poor animals are killed and it's barbaric
Well you obviously don't understand the meaning of Karma then.
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I don't think it's harsh at all, and i'm not wishing harm on anyone, just saying that where this virus originated is one of the places that animals are blowtorched and boiled alive ,and the dogs they catch or any animal could be riddled with disease,and hopefully lessons will be learned,
There are many videos on the internet of how those poor animals are killed and it's barbaric
Apparently there are still people in China who eat live baby mice. It is considered a delicacy. The government have banned it and yet it still goes on. Any wonder all the worst respiratory viruses come out of asian countries. I saw some video of this "dish" being eaten and it was utterly appalling.
I do wonder if there is something we are not being told though. The death rate is similar to the flu and if what we are being told is true, the deaths occur in the elderly and and immune compromised.
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I don't think it's harsh at all, and i'm not wishing harm on anyone, just saying that where this virus originated is one of the places that animals are blowtorched and boiled alive ,and the dogs they catch or any animal could be riddled with disease,and hopefully lessons will be learned,
There are many videos on the internet of how those poor animals are killed and it's barbaric
Apparently there are still people in China who eat live baby mice. It is considered a delicacy. The government have banned it and yet it still goes on. Any wonder all the worst respiratory viruses come out of asian countries. I saw some video of this "dish" being eaten and it was utterly appalling.
I do wonder if there is something we are not being told though. The death rate is similar to the flu and if what we are being told is true, the deaths occur in the elderly and and immune compromised.
Have you 'fact checked' this weird mice story Yellowflower. Even videos can be made to deceive.
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To clarify, on campus, not registered with either university, but on their campuses.
Re: student numbers in Brighton, a difficulty the Council has is that it can only produce its total number of students based on electoral roll returns. I wonder how many Chinese students complete the electoral roll forms, given that they're not allowed to vote here anyway.
Shady, I suggest if you want an accurate number, you make a Freedom of Information Request to the two private colleges operating out of the universities campuses. My information is based on what the trade unions on those campuses think is happening (obviously, if you hide student numbers core staff are put under much more strain), combined with information from the NHS (which is sensitive and, therefore, confidential).
Headline article from the Guardian today (who I don't believe are the gutter press) 'Coronavirus evacuations begin as China cases outstrip Sars'. In terms of global migration, the picture has really changed since SARS (2002) 'In 2007-2008, there were 43,530 Chinese students in the UK, according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency (Hesa). Ten years later the total went up to 106,530, of which 60,460 were postgraduate students and 46,070 undergraduates' (and obviously this figure doesn't include those in the private colleges doing pathway courses, or the joint initiatives between institutions here and those in mainland China).
Re: something we're not being told. Forgetting for a moment that one of the contributing problems is that the virus mutates so quickly that it's makes it more difficult to produce a vaccine, yes, the elephant in the room is how this is going to affect the world economy. I really don't know the figures, but China is one of the global economic engines. It's now, effectively, shut for business, both in terms of production and consumption, and no one knows for how long. The stock market is already beginning to slide. Obviously, in time, it will recover, but it depends how far it slides as to what (if any) knock on effects there are.
Re: the animal thing, we're not exactly covered in glory here either, e.g. live calf exports.
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Sorry but you still haven't explained the 10,000 number. Even a generous estimate of Chinese students at 10%, that would make the total number of all students in Brighton at 100,000. As the entire Brighton & Hove Population is around 270,000 That would make one in three residents a student.
That is just not believable.
You should read the Guardian article 'What is Coronavirus and how worried should we be'. It puts it in context perfectly.
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Just to put the Coronavirus into context.
There are around 400,000 deaths from flu globally each year.
The average in the UK is around 600 deaths
In bad years eg. 2013/14, that grew to about 13,000 deaths.
Flu deaths average about 1% of those infected.
At the moment Coronavirus is averaging about 3% death rate, BUT that is regarded as an over estimate as there are many unreported infections.
Most of those infected have a mild to moderate illness.
Many are believed to be asymptomatic, meaning no symptoms even though infected.
Those that do die are elderly and/or have other underlying health issues.
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The latter is what we haven't been told enough times but that won't sell papers. As for figures, well it does depend on what is published, old the figures are etc..
This is about containment not argument ;-). Whilst our Government screams that everyone should have a 'flu vaccine however much it might be lacking the current strain, I haven't seen anyone here suggesting how we protect ourselves other than regular hand washing and when necessary, avoiding crowded places.
China has one of the worst health and safety histories World Wide. They think that they can ride rough shod over the rest of us by continuing to build and pollute. Now they believe that they can build a new Hospital in a week :o. Where will the builders come from, electricians, H&S Teams; equipment, staff ........... how many will die during the build? Will the Chinese tell the rest?
We need to take care of ourselves. If 1 gets a cold then 1 stays off work that should be common sense anyway! One does not get out of bed with 'flu: been there, couldn't >:(.
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China has one of the worst health and safety histories World Wide. They think that they can ride rough shod over the rest of us by continuing to build and pollute.
Umm, health and safey?
This week in the UK news we have Glenfell and the blood contamination scandal.
As for pollution. Yes, China is a heavy polluter. However, if you take their emissions per head of population, it is just a fraction of the USA.
I would recommend a very good book. FACTFULLNESS, By Hans Rosling. He was the world accepted expert on numbers and statistics, and how they are misinterpreted.
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*Shadyglade* have you seen any of these videos, and about the big rescues of these poor animals
Once you have seen them you can't unsee them
I still have it etched in my brain a poor dog being skinned alive
A video too about crocodiles being skinned alive foe Louis Vuitton handbags
They have their throats cut and a metal pipe rammed down their throat while they are squirming
A dog being blowtorched while still alive
I wouldn't buy anything from China if i could help it ,
Unfortunately there are lots of things made in China these days
This virus was bound to happen one day, taking any animal off the streets, which could be riddled with disease
There are Chinese activists trying to stop this going on,so not tarring all Chinese with the same brush
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Actually I did try and look at some of those videos. Unfortunately my online security would not let me open or download.
Enough said.
China is a HUGE country. You can't blame the whole population for the actions of some.
Personally I am much more concerned about the human rights abuses there. But we all have our own priorities I suppose.
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I think too that we should all be aware of lack of hygiene in our eateries across the UK. I sent a knife back at Costa earlier, it was filthy. Hadn't seen hot water since it was made. Probably. I hate the way cutlery is put into dishwashers then left to drain with smears >:(.
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shadyglade,these videos are often on facebook, by the Humane society, and other animal activists, people who rescue especially the dogs and cats
I do know what karma means, and yes i dov believe this virus is just that, but innocent people are suffering too, and i wouldn't wish it on them
I worded it wrong before, this virus was bound to happen at some point,as i said ,animals dragged in off the street.especially strays could be carrying any disease
I have no idea why you couldn't get them on youtube,i have never tried,
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jaycee - another thread perhaps as it's a bit of a meander ? ;)
By not mixing though don't we open ourselves up to more Germs as we don't build up resistance? Years ago kids were mixed with chickenpox, measles etc.. We had parties ::) so that within 4-5 weeks the virus would be gone. There wasn't the media hype to spread alarm, Mums got on with treatment though I don't think that chamomile lotion [pink] was the best choice, as it dried then itched worse!
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I don't think it's harsh at all, and i'm not wishing harm on anyone, just saying that where this virus originated is one of the places that animals are blowtorched and boiled alive ,and the dogs they catch or any animal could be riddled with disease,and hopefully lessons will be learned,
There are many videos on the internet of how those poor animals are killed and it's barbaric
Apparently there are still people in China who eat live baby mice. It is considered a delicacy. The government have banned it and yet it still goes on. Any wonder all the worst respiratory viruses come out of asian countries. I saw some video of this "dish" being eaten and it was utterly appalling.
I do wonder if there is something we are not being told though. The death rate is similar to the flu and if what we are being told is true, the deaths occur in the elderly and and immune compromised.
Have you 'fact checked' this weird mice story Yellowflower. Even videos can be made to deceive.
Yes.
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Real fur from China is cheaper than fake fur and often indistinguishable. From animals skinned alive.
Roll on recession, it will be the best thing to happen to the environment.
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Real fur from China is cheaper than fake fur and often indistinguishable. From animals skinned alive.
Roll on recession, it will be the best thing to happen to the environment.
China has a terrible record when it comes to animal cruelty, particularly dogs. I don't know whether this is because of communism and the shortages of food etc, but they are extremely cruel with their methods. The dog meat trade relies on the dogs being frightened as they believe adrenaline makes the meat better. I am involved in animal rescue and even I cannot watch video of the dog meat markets in China and Korea. I am sure that Shadyglade means well, but animal to human viruses are more likely to happen in countries where these sort of practices occur en masse.
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shadyglade,these videos are often on facebook, by the Humane society, and other animal activists, people who rescue especially the dogs and cats
I do know what karma means, and yes i dov believe this virus is just that, but innocent people are suffering too, and i wouldn't wish it on them
I worded it wrong before, this virus was bound to happen at some point,as i said ,animals dragged in off the street.especially strays could be carrying any disease
I have no idea why you couldn't get them on youtube,i have never tried,
Jaycee, these videos are everywhere. I am involved in animal rescue and even I can no longer watch videos of the dog meat trade in China and Korea. There are some other animals too that are eaten in these countries that just should not be eaten. Animals like rat which is a delicacy apparently along with bats. Both of these animals carry nasty viruses and who is to say how they are prepared in 3rd world countries or even how they source the supply. Combine that with overcrowding and what do people expect will happen?
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Real fur from China is cheaper than fake fur and often indistinguishable. From animals skinned alive.
Roll on recession, it will be the best thing to happen to the environment.
China has a terrible record when it comes to animal cruelty, particularly dogs. I don't know whether this is because of communism and the shortages of food etc, but they are extremely cruel with their methods. The dog meat trade relies on the dogs being frightened as they believe adrenaline makes the meat better. I am involved in animal rescue and even I cannot watch video of the dog meat markets in China and Korea. I am sure that Shadyglade means well, but animal to human viruses are more likely to happen in countries where these sort of practices occur en masse.
It's really rude to talk about a third person on a forum Yellowflower. Especially when it's patronising.
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Or a polite way of suggesting you're using your second brain ;) ;D
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Or a polite way of suggesting you're using your second brain ;) ;D
Well two is better than one. 🤣
The Second Brain. Thought by the ancients to be the site of 'emotional intelligence'. Origin of the term 'gut instinct'. I'll go with that. 😊
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Real fur from China is cheaper than fake fur and often indistinguishable. From animals skinned alive.
Roll on recession, it will be the best thing to happen to the environment.
China has a terrible record when it comes to animal cruelty, particularly dogs. I don't know whether this is because of communism and the shortages of food etc, but they are extremely cruel with their methods. The dog meat trade relies on the dogs being frightened as they believe adrenaline makes the meat better. I am involved in animal rescue and even I cannot watch video of the dog meat markets in China and Korea. I am sure that Shadyglade means well, but animal to human viruses are more likely to happen in countries where these sort of practices occur en masse.
It's really rude to talk about a third person on a forum Yellowflower. Especially when it's patronising.
I think you are being overly sensitive. I said you probably mean well. I'm not sure how you find that rude or patronising.
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I was listening to a doctor from Canada on the radio yesterday who put everything in perspective really well. There are a handful of cases in a few countries outside of China, so the level of panic is completely unwarranted. He also said that masks offer no protection. We have 5 confirmed cases in Australia and yet the suburb of Box Hill in Melbourne is like a ghost town at the moment as they have a very high Chinese population and our media is beating this issue up. The death rate for Coronavirus seems to be in line with the flu and most deaths have been in the elderly or the immune compromised, so I am wondering if there is something we are not being told.
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Will you STOP! this is about bugs not animal cruelty. Get another thread :cuss:
People flying in from China will be quarantined. Hopefully they will be given plenty to do to keep stress levels low :-\
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That's been delayed. Took our government long enough to get their act together and now the flight has not received permission to leave. ::)
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So stuck on board :o my idea of Hell .............. how soon B4 they run out of loo paper :'(
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Nope, not even at the airport yet.
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PHEW!
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Stuck on a cruise ship in Italy - what's not to like!
2 Chinese Nationals aboard ::)
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China Population (2020) - Worldometer
www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population
China 2020 population is estimated at 1,439,323,776 people at mid year according to UN data.
I wouldn't worry. The chances of them being infected are tiny. ;)
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How many is that in real money ? ::)
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I don't know, I can't count that high. ;D
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Stand on a chair Girl, stand on a chair ;D
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It's pretty standard it think. I just means that certain measures can be put in place worldwide and countries know what criteria to use.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
This link explains it all and gives advice on protection and myth busting.
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Overall not many people have died.
Was it really necessary for us to be told that people being sent North 'will be well looked after' :-\. Probably better looked after than those in our Hospitals or Care Homes ......... but I wouldn't have expected people being detained against their will probably: in a non-used NHS facility to be treated like there were prisoners of War! What's going to happen to their jobs etc. in the next 2-3 weeks of internment? Who will be paying their mortgages if Companies get huffy?
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I assume they've agreed to it because they can't be held against their will. Sorry, but their jobs and mortgages pail into insignificance compared to spreading a fatal disease into this country.
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Particularly as people in China are being advised not to travel so they won't be able to get to work :-\ and interestingly the Chinese New Year has been put back - twice. Thank goodness that doesn't happen here ::)
The 1st plane arrived at Brize Norton 1 hour ago.
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The virus beat them to it. Two people diagnosed in Yorkshire.
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Who had travelled from China recently. So it should be expected that all the passengers will be tracked and immediately quarantined? As well as Staff and Hotel employees? This will test how ready the UK actually is.
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;D. I did wonder if the coaches were empty at that point? Otherwise my thoughts, exactly ::).
I think there may be Hospitals that have closed Wards across the UK - that doesn't explain where Staff might be brought in from though. We need Miss Marple?
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I live less than 5 minutes from Arrowe Park hospital and apparently the people in quarantine have been moved into the nurses section where they live and the nurses have been moved into local hotels. Media are everywhere and people are over reacting to the whole situation.
The people so far do not have the virus and may never have it but due to all the scar mongers the locals are very worried.
Like 'what's been mentioned, I noticed why on earth did the coach drivers not wear any protection. Are they being put into quarantine now as well????
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Will you STOP! this is about bugs not animal cruelty. Get another thread :cuss:
People flying in from China will be quarantined. Hopefully they will be given plenty to do to keep stress levels low :-\
The reason the whole animal cruelty issue is being raised is because this virus started in animals in the wet markets of Wuhan. These markets ate notorious for selling all manner of animals and in terrible conditions.
With respect, this is a forum that is open to differing opinions and comments. It is not up to individual members to decide what is appropriate.
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Well, yeah, it's likely relevant that it's a virus which can jump the species barrier and then go on to be passed human to human. It's kinda what makes them so deadly. Can't remember the name of such viruses now, but I know HIV is one of them. And indeed, one way of preventing viruses jumping the species barrier is to not eat or come into contact with infected material. Like if we think about cholera, which doesn't jump the species barrier as far as I'm aware, the key to control was / is clean water, not continuing to consume dirty water. So yeah.
Sussex is well deserted. The buildings that usually house the international private provider students have been shut. They're simply not there at the moment - could be holidays for the new year though. And no, I can't provide any documentary evidence for this claim, only confirmation that normally, on every other day, these buildings are open and 'trading'. Internal comms report the cancellation of planned trips to China at least until the end of February, to be reviewed, alongside significant support for students, including advice on self-quarantine.
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Certainly I have no knowledge of Nurses/Doctors' quarters ever standing empty. I think that the media should stay well away, it's certainly one method of spreading Germs what ever they might turn out to be! The public get told far too much these days. I wonder how far the quarantine will be taken, i.e. mobile phones sterilised B4 release, clothing burned ............ regardless of whether any or none of this first plane arrival develop symptoms ?
I'm wondering how Industry World Wide will be affected :-\.
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Viruses only remain active of surfaces for around 15 minutes. And as for face masks, next to useless apparently.
The nurses have been moved to hotels for the duration.
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If 1 sells a face mask the person has to have attended a mask fitting course. DH was in H&S and responsible for mask fitting ::) ......
I would worry about 15 mins., surely if the surface it's wiped regularly the Germ mutates :o [a bit like slime .......... ;) ]
Photo released this morning shows a coach driver in day clothes with a fully protected passenger, the seats behind appear empty. Now I would insist on barrier clothing as a driver :-\
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Some viruses can live a lot longer than 15mins. Not sure about this one specifically.
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If 1 sells a face mask the person has to have attended a mask fitting course. DH was in H&S and responsible for mask fitting ::) ......
I would worry about 15 mins., surely if the surface it's wiped regularly the Germ mutates :o [a bit like slime .......... ;) ]
Photo released this morning shows a coach driver in day clothes with a fully protected passenger, the seats behind appear empty. Now I would insist on barrier clothing as a driver :-\
The two coach drivers will be in two weeks isolation at home.
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... spreading it only to their immediate family who can then pass it on to their school mates etc etc.
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No barrier nursing there then :bang: :bang: :bang: there was never cross infection when I worked in the Hospital because the cleaners were in house and kept to their Wards. I hope someone somewhere is keeping a note on all this!
Party in a Brewery springs to mind.
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They're looking for people who might have been infected by the Chinese tourists. Those who have been in close contact with them for 15 minutes. Why 15 minutes? Is it related to a sloth?
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I spent hours on Wednesday and Thursday standing crammed into rush hour tubes from one side of London to the other. Literally breathing in each others faces. I now have a sore throat, sneezes and cough which came on overnight. It felt innevitable.
I've never seen so many people on the underground with masks on. Not just the paper ones either.
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From where I'm sitting it's farcical. It's either a dangerous virus or not. 15 mins.? how is it passed? touch, air, sneezing .........
When my friend had typhus: years++ ago : he wasn't allowed to sell his fruit and veg., even the pets in the home had to be tested! He had never been abroad :o ........
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From where I'm sitting it's farcical. It's either a dangerous virus or not. 15 mins.? how is it passed? touch, air, sneezing .........
When my friend had typhus: years++ ago : he wasn't allowed to sell his fruit and veg., even the pets in the home had to be tested! He had never been abroad :o ........
That's probably because Tyhoid is a bacteria and not a virus.
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Tnx. Serious all the same. So precautions should be treating this virus as high risk - sending the drivers home seems a bit pre-mature!
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Australia is quarantining people on Christmas Island and has now banned travel from mainland China. We have 12 confirmed cases.
The death rate is apparently around 3% which is less than SARS.
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Didn't Prince Phillip say he would like to be reincarnated as a killer virus? :o
Err, but he's not dead yet.
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;D that could be a whole thread on it's own :D
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And to make a difference it would have to kill millions not hundreds.
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I wonder how the bus Company will manage to run their Fleet if they have drivers 'off sick' in quarantine or were they retired men who were brought back into Service :-\. I would have wanted 'scullions B4 I would have considered such a task!
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Hello ladies
Whatever we think of the Chinese government's handling of the crisis, hat's off to them for building and opening a one thousand bed hospital in eight days. Nick Knowles and DIY SOS eat your heart out!
Having said all that let's hope the facilities and any specialist care is not actually needed and the Coronavirus departs as quickly as it arrived.
Wishing everyone well.
K.
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Of course there are no building regulations etc. in many countries whereas across the UK hoops have to be jumped through! So it isn't possible to fast-build new hospitals, prisons or schools here.
Now the Chinese are asking the UK for equipment supplies. Well nope, sorry - we need to look after our own patients first. Problem is across the UK, the NHS won't fund people to run the equipment already in place. Most could be used 24/7 if monies were available to Staff them. That of course requires people to work night shifts, enough to read and report on the various results ........... but the technology is there.
Were the same drivers used yesterday to bring the next load from France to the North?
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I don't have any faith in UK building regs. Remember Grenfell and all the other buildings still with dodgy cladding. Not to mention no sprinklers.
I thought the government had already offered 20 million??
The drivers previously used are in home quarantine for two weeks.
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And a railway line from London to Birmingham will take us 25 years
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If you are mentioning HS2 :poke2: then don't.
It isn't scheduled to stop at many stations and is ploughing through 5 Sites of Scientific Interest which the tax payer has been charged for; plus demolition of houses which will never realise anywhere near the asking price .........
So are we to assume that different drivers were used in the coaches yesterday?
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I think China is relying on other countries to supply equipment :-\ but one can be laid on mattresses, one doesn't require beds. Lots of changes of bed linen will be required for a 'flu like virus and barrier nursing will mean lots of laundry. Wonder if one was built? :-\
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A coach firm that transported Britons evacuated from coronavirus-hit Wuhan has defended itself after its drivers were pictured not wearing masks.
Horseman Coaches, based in Reading, took 83 Britons from RAF Brize Norton to a hospital on the Wirral on Friday.
The firm's drivers were featured in the national press sitting next to evacuation staff in protective suits.
The company's director James Horseman said its "heroic" drivers were never in contact with any passengers.
The passengers are being housed in an NHS staff accommodation block at Arrowe Park Hospital, where they have been put in "supported isolation" for 14 days with "all necessary medical attention".
The photos appeared in a number of national newspapers. Speaking to BBC Radio Berkshire, Mr Horseman said: "The person in the hazmat suit was a medic and their role was to be in contact with the passenger should anybody display any symptoms - thankfully nobody did - and it was a precautionary measure.
"Our drivers at no point were going to be in contact with any of the passengers.
"And Public Health England (PHE) have explained to contract this virus from somebody that is displaying symptoms, which they weren't, you would need to be in constant contact with someone for a minimum of 15 minutes."
How long was the journey to the North :-\
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Phew, there is lots and lots of speculation and not much concrete information.
We can play that game until the cows come hope but it won't help.
Personally I am not particularly worried about this virus, and nothing has been written or said so far anywhere , is likely to change that. It's just a particularly nasty flu bug.
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That's my view on it Shadyglade. More likely to get D&V :-X
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Case confirmed in Brighton, you know, like I said I was concerned about. Must be that non existent population. Hopefully, this persistent denial of the potential down here won't lead to dire consequences.
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It's a virus which will spread. Apparently by being coughed over. Is the person isolated ElkW?
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It's someone who has just flown in from 'somewhere in Asia', so not UK infected.
I'm more worried about the rise in racist incidents because of fear caused by scaremongering.
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There's a newborn baby infected too possibly via the womb, during delivery or breathed over by the already infected mother. I think that was in China :-\
[A Chinese newborn has been diagnosed with the new coronavirus just 30 hours after birth, the youngest case recorded so far, state media said.
The baby was born on 2 February in Wuhan, the epicentre of the virus.
The baby's mother tested positive before she gave birth. It is unclear how the disease was transmitted - in the womb, or after birth.
Only a handful of children have come down with the virus, which has killed 565 people and infected 28,018.
All but one of the deaths were in China.]
BBC News - The third person in the UK to be diagnosed with coronavirus did not catch it in mainland China, England's chief medical officer has said.
The patient, who caught the infection elsewhere in Asia, was diagnosed in Brighton, it is understood.
Prof Chris Whitty also said doctors will now test for suspected coronavirus in patients who have recently travelled from a range of Asian countries, which will be specified later.
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It's someone who has just flown in from 'somewhere in Asia', so not UK infected.
I'm more worried about the rise in racist incidents because of fear caused by scaremongering.
Don't you find it a little bit odd though, the case happens to be in the only place that was specified to be of concern here. It's one hell of a coincidence don't you think.
And yes, people are going to catch viruses, that's how they spread. But it's absolutely crucial, in the interests of public health, that we have effective infection control measures in place. Luckily, this has now been recognised by both universities.
As for racism, that has nothing to do with infection control.
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EW, I think you were concerned but I don't remember anyone else being.
Don't understand your last point. People react irrationally by the risk being exaggerated.
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The third infected person is not a student or staff member of Brighton University. BBC news.
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Yes, I was the person who was concerned about Brighton, and I gave reasons for those concerns. These were dismissed. Now we have a case. Let's see what happens next.
Sorry, what are you saying about irrational exaggeration, because it feels as if you've repeatedly directed comments at me.
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I was actually referring to the news media. I only referred it to you because you questioned the racist reaction, point.
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There has been reported verbal attacks in China Town. When there's a Country involved in an incident, it often happens. Fear breeds fear breeds anger ...........
As long as the NHS has bother, forgotten the word >:( infection control - and these issues aren't suddenly arrived at, there will be protocols somewhere in the background as there are for Major Accidents [anything involving more than 22 people], with committees and groups discussing the whys/where fores as to how to move forwards to protect the public. As there are with the normal 'flu expectations. i.e. 'flu jabs -
Now people are stuck on cruise liners but those affected are being moved :-\ .......... awful for those who booked internal cabins without any windows, relying on air con which could of course, spread viruses etc. ::)
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I don't think they should allow anybody from China into the UK until this is sorted.
Looks like they finally read my post!! 😂😂
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But the Chinese are already here .......... it does show how many millions travel every day across the World!
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Does anyone else find it odd that they are quickly building these new hospitals if numbers are what they are saying they are? Not many infected or died compared to the whole Chinese population. ,Does this reaction seems out of proportion, or are the figures just totally totally wrong, and they are in truth much much higher ?
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I think that it will be years B4 the truth comes out. I think the Chinese build where and when they like to anyway this happens to be in the public domain. Now they are asking for more masks - don't they be made in China ;-)
Most countries have planning laws which prevent the sudden building over large areas ....... even when required. Also in the UK there are Wards that were closed years ago that could be re-opened.
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Third person is a middle aged man who has recently been to Singapore.
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Stay out of the way of middle aged men?
Make sure that people don't cough at you. Usually it's sneezes that spread diseases ::)
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Pleased to see the gvt have now changed their advice, and anyone who has travelled from specified countries is to self isolate and call 111 if they have symptoms. While it's better late than never, on a personal note of concern, this means I've come into direct contact with two people who have (hopefully) colds, one just back from Hong Kong, one just back from Taiwan, both of whom are now seeking advice from 111 - especially as they've also been around 100s of students and staff. And by direct contact, I mean sat down and ate food with, shared a work kitchen / bathroom with.
It's interesting that it's the Chinese gvt, whose economy stands to be the most affected, who are saying '[There] should be no panic, no overreaction'. Of course they don't want special measures in place. They're actively campaigning against them, bringing huge amounts of pressure to bear on WHO. At the point a gvt prosecutes one of its own doctors for blowing the whistle on a a public health emergency (as it did in December, tragically that doctor is now dead from the very virus he was trying to alert the authorities to), I do tend to feel as if there's something of a cover up and I'm not inclined to believe a word they then go on to say on the matter. I certainly don't want to follow their advice.
Re: deadliness. Yeah, well, just because it's people with pre-existing conditions who it's most likely to be fatal to (yes, I have a problem with my lungs), that doesn't mean all the healthies should think it's fine as a method of 'natural selection'. And there are also the environmental factors to consider. Of course, those of us living and working in densely populated urban areas are at more risk.
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Morning. Notably it's the Chinese Ambassador to London who is the mouth piece for his Government but he could be spouting his own words .
How would this have been handled without social media involvement? Locally? Every GP surgery giving out advice consistent with the density of population? How does hand washing impact/not?
If every person that sneezes then rings 111 the system will crash. What is the actually diagnosis and how long B4 1 finds out? We sneeze several times a day but not every day. I have allergic rhinitis which I believe has protected me from many Germs over the years as my nose is often blocked, itchy and snuffly.
Then the issue of self isolating, ringing 111 then being taken elsewhere? In China 1 person is being allowed out to shop every other day .... and shelves are, understandably, emptying quickly.
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Amnesty have now come out against the way this has been handled. Punishments and cover ups. Absolutely terrible. Human rights abuses. All in an effort to play it down and protect the economy.
One of me team is from Wuhan. She was just telling me that her parents neighbour died in horrible conditions. It's all so upsetting. At least now it's being acknowledged and we have support in place for all those affected.
Re: social media, that's right, CLKD, if this is controlled you end up with lack of transparency and information. The authorities relied heavily on accusing anyone who tried to speak out as scaremongering.
Oh, and that person from Brighton, it would seem the entire conference was run by a Brighton based company - who obviously had no concept of risk management for any of the delegates, really not ok to put people in potentially life threatening situations.
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I spoke with someone from Hong Kong earlier, he's lived here for years++ and he says that the Chinese are covering up a lot of numbers of those diagnosed and those who died.
We trade with China :-\ ........ but if this type of abuse happens in countries that we don't have deals with, 'we' shout loudly about how wrong it is!
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And now school children in Brighton are being put into isolation by Public Health England - so not panic, but medical advice.
And yes, CLKD, it looks like a gigantic cover up, to encourage people to shrug it off in order to protect an economy. Pity it was downplayed so much in the beginning. This wouldn't be happening now if that hadn't been the case. I feel very sorry for those kids and their families and friends.
Information is trickling out, including by reputable scientists who work in our top infectious diseases units here in the UK, all confirming that the window to act (in terms of travel) has almost disappeared. That whole ridiculous 'it's not as bad as SARs' thing has proved to be disasterous.
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Pity that the headlines aren't honest! Scaremongering. Most.
Today:
Coronavirus: Five Brits in French ski chalet catch virus - HOWEVER. They live in France :bang: ........ the wife is currently in the UK - the chap in Brighton had apparently visited these families in two chalets - all friends who live in France. Now 2 schools will be closed for 2 weeks in the village as the child testing positive attends the school ::).
I've spent an hour trying to find out the true story of this headline. :-\. I've waded through up-dates as they arrived on the News streams to get to this point. None are feeling ill but as they were in brief contact: don't know how brief brief might be : they were tested.
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Exactly. A lot of people who get it have no symptoms at all.
Still not worried.
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Nor am I!
It's the scaremongering headlines: Britons affected. :-\ They are not living HERE ....... it does show how the virus is travelling though but the honeymooner taken off the cruise liner 'feels well' ::)
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Nor am I!
It's the scaremongering headlines: Britons affected. :-\ They are not living HERE ....... it does show how the virus is travelling though but the honeymooner taken off the cruise liner 'feels well' ::)
The cruiseliner in quarantine off the coast of Japan initially had 7 affected. In 3 days, that is now 64 affected. For every new case, the quarantine period starts again. We are not being told the whole truth.
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It doesn't mean the people are showing symptoms other than a raised temperature but may be carriers. Throat swabs?
Some on the cruise ship have been allowed to walk on deck. With masks. Not to engage with others.
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Probably spread by the air conditioning? I think the people from inside cabins are allowed on deck.
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Exactly. A lot of people who get it have no symptoms at all.
Still not worried.
Yes, they're called carriers.
Glad you're not worried. I presume there's cases where you live? Or do you mean you're completely unaffected and so not worried? Also presume you're living in a massively densely populated urban area?
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Absolutely no cases where we live.
Live in a very small rural town in Kent
Not worried because I think the risk is small.
In a bad flu year in the UK there has been up to 13,000 deaths from bog standard flu. Why would I worry about this bug when we have had no deaths here?
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What worries me is that everyone who coughs and sneezes will dial 111 ::). R we supposed to report 'flu-like symptoms, will Health England actually let the public know what to do in real time?
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Exactly right. There are other resporatray virus about. It could end up as total chaos.
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Yet. It's 'flu season after all ::)
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The reason these strains of respiratory viruses cause more concern are because they jumped from animals to humans. The mutations that can occur are a cause for concern. It also has a high rate of pneumonia which was why doctors started trying to report it last year and were accused of "spreading rumors".
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Sixty percent of all human pathogens orginate in animals species. It's nothing unusual.
Would worrying help?
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I saw. I think that is done to keep the rest of the World 'happy' that the Chinese are 'doing something'. I suspect that what ever is in the spray would do more damage if ingested?!?
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Has anyone seen the video footage of trucks spreading some sort of aerosol spray around the streets in China? Cities going into lockdown. Not the sort of thing you'd normally expect for a virus that's similar to regular flu.
Worrying won't help at all Shadyglade.
I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping it doesn't blow our way!
A friend flew from Stockholm to Bologna during last week. On arrival every passenger's temperature was checked by guys in protective clothing. I wonder whether anyone with a cold was prevented from continuing.
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What about a hot flush. :sweatdrop:
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A convoy of coaches with passengers wearing masks taken to Milton Keynes today - 2 didn't leave China due to higher than normal temperatures. However, being in that situation would probably raise both temperature and blood pressure!
I do wish that the media wouldn't keep telling the public that Britons have been infected when they are ex-pats :poke2:
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What about a hot flush. :sweatdrop:
Hot flushes don't affect the core temperature - hard though that is to believe.
Taz x
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Hi Taz how you doing?
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Thousands of people stuck on a cruise ship in Hong Kong for four days have been allowed to disembark after tests for coronavirus came back negative.
Some 3,600 passengers and crew on the World Dream ship were quarantined amid fears some staff could have contracted the virus on a previous voyage.
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Sixty percent of all human pathogens orginate in animals species. It's nothing unusual.
Would worrying help?
It's not even the virus that is the concern anymore, it's the associated panic. I caught a train through Box Hill last week in Victoria. This has the highest population of Chinese residents in Victoria. As the train approached Box Hill, people started putting on face masks. Box Hill is a busy city with a major hospital and it is like a ghost town. It was eerie. There is a major shortage here of face masks, hand sanitiser, etc.. even to the point where medical professionals are now struggling to get supplies.
This strain of coronavirus has a higher than usual rate of pneumonia. In the elderly and immune compromised, this is a problem. I kind of agree that this is similar to a bad flu, but the reaction to this in China and amongst Chinese citizens in other countries would suggest that there is something a bit more sinister involved with this strain.
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Hi Taz how you doing?
Hi CLKD I'm fine thanks. Still can't get my head around the fact that when they talk about the Coronavirus being a risk to 'the elderly' they mean the over sixties! I find it difficult to see myself as elderly! :-\
Hope you are well.
Taz x :)
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Hi Taz. Many years ago I tried to get from AgeUK what 'elderly' actually means ........ there is no legal definition. Apparently. It's a number?
yellowflower - I have friends who trade with China and I think they, like most Chinese and those on Hong Kong, feel that there are many cover-ups of issues that should be made public.
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I think we're probably considered elderlings over 60 but of course we're definitely not yet old - that doesn't happen until at least 80! I've noticed I'm getting offers of seats on buses and "are you OK to carry your tray" in restaurants more as years go by - and of course our grandkids already call us old ::)
Oh yes, I've been offered seats on the Tube twice, and an offer to carry my tray to the table in Waterstones last week. Don't know whether to be pleased or mad. ;D
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Statistics now released confirm that the virus has a death rate of 1%, which is the same as a bog standard flu virus.
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A 4th person in the UK confirmed positive. Doesn't explain if they had symptoms/not ::)
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Coronavirus: Brighton GP practice closes after staff member tests positive
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.... a Practice in Brackley, Northants has closed part of the building due to 'an incident' :-\. Clear as mud. That!
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I think we're probably considered elderlings over 60 but of course we're definitely not yet old - that doesn't happen until at least 80! I've noticed I'm getting offers of seats on buses and "are you OK to carry your tray" in restaurants more as years go by - and of course our grandkids already call us old ::)
Oh yes, I've been offered seats on the Tube twice, and an offer to carry my tray to the table in Waterstones last week. Don't know whether to be pleased or mad. ;D
I am often offered a seat on the tube during rush hour and I'm not yet 60. Nearly 57 so it doesn't seem that far away but not there yet. I don't accept the seats offered.
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Ok so I was told today that people who have died have died of secondary pneumonia like a normal flu. Many are recovering, like the guy who had the hot toddy.
If you tracked any flu it would spread in this way so is this actually more dangerous than normal flu?
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Brighton Surgery remains closed
Brackley Clinic opened after a Deep Clean ::) - someone sneezed?
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To be fair, it is the virus that's of concern to those of us in Brighton.
As I said in my initial post, I'm concerned. Student from UoS following PHE advice. We'll see what the test results say. A huge number of people who live in 'London by the sea' work in the capital and commute daily. This could get very interesting very quickly.
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Ok so I was told today that people who have died have died of secondary pneumonia like a normal flu. Many are recovering, like the guy who had the hot toddy.
If you tracked any flu it would spread in this way so is this actually more dangerous than normal flu?
From what I have heard it is much the same as ordinary flu. The only difference is that because it's a new virus there is less herd immunity.
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OK update from the TV last night ::)
I can't remember her Name but I believe she's a Prof. If I had energy I would look her up. Update: Dr Natalie McDermott, Infectious Diseases, King's College, London
Her advice is that masks aren't useful. This Virus is spread in the main by coughing so people using their hands as shields without then washing pass the germ by hand shaking or leaving it on surfaces. She was quite calm about how we should avoid spreading - carrying hand wash to use when commenting, also wiping door handles/phones/mobiles etc. with a small amount may stop the spread. NOT shaking hands is the main message that I got last night.
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That's quite likely. Also the Tourist trades will be affected.
Found the Channel 5 name of the Dr. see above ;-)
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WHO have renamed the virus Corvid-19.
UK economy flat lined with zero growth, in the last quarter of 2019. We do not need extra problems. We will just have to wait and see how it pans out.
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1 affected in Nepal and apparently:
Two prisoners are being tested for coronavirus in Oxfordshire.
The men, who are inmates at HMP Bullingdon, near Bicester, are being kept in isolation.
One wing where the affected prisoners are has restricted access, but the prison remains operational, the Guardian understands.
Public Health England is on site to help manage the situation.
Out for the weekend were they ? :-\
from Centers for disease control and prevention: Human coronaviruses can sometimes cause lower-respiratory tract illnesses, such as pneumonia or bronchitis. This is more common in people with cardiopulmonary disease, people with weakened immune systems, infants, and older adults.
Other human coronaviruses
Two other human coronaviruses, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV have been known to frequently cause severe symptoms. MERS symptoms usually include fever, cough, and shortness of breath which often progress to pneumonia. About 3 or 4 out of every 10 patients reported with MERS have died. MERS cases continue to occur, primarily in the Arabian Peninsula. SARS symptoms often included fever, chills, and body aches which usually progressed to pneumonia. No human cases of SARS have been reported anywhere in the world since 2004.
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The Chinese F1 Grand Prix is expected to be postponed as a result of the coronavirus outbreak.
The race is scheduled to be held in Shanghai on 19 April and a decision is set to be made in the next few days.
Formula 1 managing director Ross Brawn has previously said it will look to reschedule the race if it cannot be held on its original date.
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To be seen to be doing?
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I'm not convinced it isn't given that it's killed the doctor who first found it, as he was working presumably he was in good health. Not convinced about the story that you have to be close for 15 mins to get it either. We vaccinate our vulnerable people for flu, if we didn't many more of them would end up in hospital. And this is something for which there's no vaccination and no natural immunity.
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The Dr who raised this issue in November was beaten up ............ he was an ophthalmologist who could have been infected through contact with several carriers/sufferers and he was working in a close-to environment. There were reports yesterday that 'they didn't know whether he had underlying conditions' ..........
I did think that we would find out about those in MKeynes this evening as results are supposedly out today :-\. Public Health England still haven't issued guidelines to the public >:(. Handwashing simply won't cut it, 1 isn't able to wash hands each time we touch anything in a public space. We were told too that these hand washes are making germs more powerful ::)
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Hello ladies
I realise that China's reaction does seem suspicious but perhaps when you have a one party political system, lots of resources and plenty of manpower building a hospital in eight days becomes the obvious thing to do. Plus the population of China is huge meaning large numbers of people have to be accommodated even if they are unwell for a short time and make a full recovery.
Time will tell of course but let's hope this virus goes the way of other recent flu strains and quickly fades away.
Take care ladies.
K.
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I agree Kathleen.
Also the doctor that died was the whistle blower and you just can't get away with doing that in a dictatorship like China. I think his death is highly suspicious.
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I M surprised that PHE hasnt issued proper handwashing techniques .. . I was taught by a nurse. Many people dont do it properly. But as you say CLKD one cant wash their hands every 2 minutes. So I think people should be advised to be mindful of touching their own face, mucous,membranes of the nose, eyes and mouth.
Xx
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We were taught to wash from the elbows down with hot water and lots of soap after being on the farm. Particularly the wrists, nails, backs of hands ....... and shake dry where possible. Tea-towels, hand-towels, flannels and keyboards harbour Germs ;)
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True .clkd. the nurse who showed me the proper technique said many people dont wash their thumbs!!! I wash up over my wrists. It's a,long standing joke with friends that I "scrub up"
Shame more things arent made of copper and brass particularly door handles.
I had an ecg before xmas and suddenly realised he wasnt wearing any gloves. Before I could say anything he is lifting my boobs up to attach the pads. !!! Touching patients with no gloves.!! Not to mention it made me feel realy uncomfortable.
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I don't mind no gloves if I have seen the Practitioner wash up first. Many people are becoming allergic to surgical gloves or it may be that the Hospital had run out. Next time maybe mention it?
The MK results weren't issued yesterday :-\
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If it's a non invasive procedure it doesn't matter. I would be shocked if my dentist didn't use gloves for instance, but if no body fluids involved, not bothered.
I am pretty sure that when I have a mammogram, the nurse doesn't wear gloves.
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Hi CLKD.🖐 I take your point about latex allergies. I hadnt thought of that. X
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MK reports that no one has tested positive thus far :-* and some are already leaving from confinement up North.
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A doctor from oxford uni has today warned that the tube could be a '"hotbed for spread of coronavirus around the capital".
Doesnt realy take a brilliant mind to work that one out does it?
I said it on here 2 weeks ago .
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Another headline "Are Cruise Liners a Petri dish" ...... well, probably ::) as is any closed society.
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Clkd :)
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Just to add to the hysteria, we had an epidemiologist on radio 3AW in Melbourne this morning state that he believes 2/3 of the world's population will contract it.
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Oh .......... did he say how exactly? Is that including those in Tribes rarely seen by others who of course are probably most at risk!
It interests me that Public Health England has not released how it is passed on; how those testing positive have been treated; what the real contamination risk might be; what the real qurantine period should be .......... so we are left in the dark. Is it a case of IV ABs; pain relief with plenty of fluids ..........
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There is a big difference between believing something and knowing for certain. We have had loads of experts on TV, stating every level of risk you could imagine. It's all speculation.
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Coronavirus: Bicester Village 'having a tough time'
By Lora Jones
Business Reporter, BBC News
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So much for quarantine?
Coronavirus: British couple on cruise ship 'test positive'. apparently moved from the ship to shore, apparently 'to hospital' but have ended up in a 'hostel' - so much for organisation to contain this virus!
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It bothers me. How is it that people who are supposedly wearing masks when they walk round the deck, keeping away with no contact with other passengers, apparently get the virus? They say not. Results are apparently positive. So they are moved from the cruise liner to a 'hostel' :-\. Cynical. Maybe it's to stop their daily video up-dates?
I don't agree that any of the passengers should have been moved as this puts others at risk. Until the germination period of this virus is absolute, 12 days seems a bit on the bearing on hopeful, rather than the possible 24 days incubation which has been suggested.
Why not throw everyone together and get the virus through passengers quickly? Moving health providers onto the cruise liner to treat anyone that needs it. They would be gowned therefore fairly safe.
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The masks are not effective against the virus apparently.
Taz x
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Because it's spread by hand shaking ?
Masks have to be fitted correctly and are themselves, potentially a spreader. Where do masks go after use :-\
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The main problem is believed to be the ships air conditioning system.
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Exactly, good point. Nearly every time I fly I get a cold.
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This is reasonably up to date information:
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
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Also Listeria is the other Big Bug to watch for, caused by un-treated spray shower heads >:(
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Pandemic might mean that there are different Laws that can be instigated. However, it's a bit of a strong word!
Those from Milton Keynes have been allowed home as non tested positive. It is said that people who are already comprised health wise are most at risk. Healthy people will be affected to varying degrees. Don't shake hands with anyone and avoid those that are coughing. Not easy on the underground etc..
Legionaires is the one, :thankyou: ::) - the 'L' was correct :-\ but nowt else :-X
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The Health Correspondent on the BBC has said that Seasonal 'Flu is more dangerous than the coronavirus. Reiterating that it's very young, very old and those with a compromised immune system that are most at risk. This is probably being spread by travellers who have no symptoms but will be carrying the virus. They may never have symptoms. Others will have raised temperatures, possible breathing problems or feel like they have a bad cold.
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;D
It's going to decimate the tourist industry and many sporting fixtures ::) instead of putting everyone together and letting it go through under supervision: like we did measles, mumps, chicken pox
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WHO are saying that it is not a pandemic as it is not spreading in an uncontrolled way. There are instead certain epidemic hot spots, or words to that effect.
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Re-read that - not 'old cynic' at all stellajane!
It's the hot spots that are apparently worrying the Press. They need something to sell papers. Until i.e. in Italy people are asked where they have been in the last 4 weeks ......... there are probably carriers unaware that they are carrying a Bug, they arrive home and party as usual.
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It's to be expected, the world is a small place these days.
Can't say I'm over worried. Apparently it's nowhere near as deadly as Sars, and that only killed about 800 people worldwide.
Higher chance of being struck by lightning but it will keep the gutter press busy for a while. Every cloud etc.
Hasn't it now killed three times as many people as SARS and is really quite infectious?
As the WHO are saying, we're approaching a critical point, one that could have been avoided if governments had put people before profit.
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According to the BBC News at 1 it is less dangerous than what people suffer during the 'Flu Season: which is now.
My problem is that no one seems certain of the incubation period: from 2 weeks to 29 days to ? Whether I would be more worried if we lived in a busier area :-\ I don't know. We don't mix with many people ........
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Exactly. Bog standard flu has caused 15 deaths in a 9 week period in the UK this season. So far no Coronavirus deaths here.
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Now travellers from Italy are being advised to self isolate if they get symptoms :-\ - so any carriers will be passing it on then without being aware :( :-X
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I think it is just the North of Italy. North of Pisa was mentioned.
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Time to get my Passport and go travelling ;D
On the News right now.
They are targeting the Pangolin as a source of infection as well as bats :-\. Pangolin are one of the most trafficked sources of food in the Far East and one of the rarest critters in the World :'( - tastes like pork. Apparently.
Also - does it bother anyone else that there are suited beings spraying 'stuff' in busy areas? What's the likelihood of that being more dangerous than a virus :-\
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Someone in Tenerife has it now.
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Hotel in shut down?
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Someone in Tenerife has it now.
It was a hospital doctor on holiday at a hotel there so now the hotel has closed and all the guests are confined to their rooms.
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So where had the Doctor been, prior to taking a holiday? What had been touched - hand rails, toilet doors, taps ..........
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;D .......... we have holidayed in the UK for years. Now is the time to go abroad ;D ......... but even in the UK one can't tell who might be infected. Some say it's 2 weeks to 28 days B4 it shows itself ::)
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I haven't read this thread (nor the detailed ins and outs of the whole saga) - just the odd post - but some of the last few comments portray some of the misleading information out there in the media.
There is a difference between virulence, immunity and transmissability. As far as we know from the information out there I gather it is not as virulent as "bog standard flu" - ie most people who catch it will not be very ill and the DEATH RATE (% mortality of those with the disease) is quite low (lower than "bog standard flu"). However with "bog standard flu" many vulnerable people and groups are vaccinated (no idea of the figures) and many have some NATURAL IMMUNITY to the flu viruses so reducing their SUSCEPTIBILITY to the disease and ABSOLUTE numbers getting it are therefore (relatively) low even though for those that catch it, the death RATE (ie for flu) maybe higher.
As this is a NEW VIRUS then there is no vaccine as yet, and natural immunity is unknown (presumably?). Added to this it appears to be highly transmissible (infectious) and therefore the ABSOLUTE NUMBERS are likely to be VERY HIGH indeed (as we have already seen) and therefore the numbers of people needing hospital treatment as a consequence also very high and the ABSOLUTE NUMBERS of DEATHS also relatively high, irrespective of its virulence for the majority of people who get it.
I haven't seen this written anywhere so it's just from my head as it strikes me so shoot me down if I'm talking rubbish re the above. However it just seems obvious that this is why there is such concern about its spread. No conspiracy theory, no over-reaction but genuine attempts to curb its spread before it becomes a pandemic - which in this global society travelling all over the world, may be inevitable. Individuals who continue with their global holidays when they have been in a hotspot area (and who have no symptoms) are helping in the spread. We just do not have the hospital space to care for all the vulnerable people who will need hospital treatment should there be a pandemic.
Hurdity x
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The WHO website is the best place to get up to date information.
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It's those that are unaware that they might be carriers where the problem lies. As with all viruses. It's the difference in 2 weeks/28 days that is the most worrying 'cos no one seems to know. Better to err on the side of caution and treat it as 28 days. Don't touch anyone else, hand rails, toilet doors etc..
It shows how widely people travel World Wide and how often.
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In Australia, they are talking now of "when" it will happen here rather than "if". The estimate is 700,000 eventually infected here. This is still likely to run for about 18 months, so we are in for a very unstable time worldwide.
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I think you're right Hurdity. I hope we don't end up shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Stable door still wide open and horse already galloping down the road...
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I wonder how useful the temperature testing is. My usual temperature is 35.5. If I showed a 'safe' reading of 37.5 I would be quite unwell but I'd pass the test?
Taz x
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I wonder how useful the temperature testing is. My usual temperature is 35.5. If I showed a 'safe' reading of 37.5 I would be quite unwell but I'd pass the test?
Taz x
That's exactly the same for me. I also have a low natural level.
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Hi girls,
Here's another good source of information
https://promedmail.org/
BeaR.
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I think he was feeling generally unwell, even in an air-conditioned space. Reports last night was that he was quite poorly :-\. It's passed by contact: 1 touches one's face/nose or sneezes into a hand then doesn't cleanse ::). OK if no one got too close.
Lots of ideas about how to self isolate but nothing about how to treat symptoms ::) apparently 111 are giving out false news.
Apparently the NHS are going to test people showing signs of seasonal flu to see whether there is a connection .........
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Hi girls,
Here's another good source of information
https://promedmail.org/
BeaR.
Excellent link BeaR, thanks.
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Bubonic plaque :-\ ...........
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Interesting that in Germany at the Cycling Worlds no one appeared to be wearing a mask ::) not even the Devil himself ;D
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Those who have 'flu won't be walking around anyway? Both times I suffered I couldn't lift my head from the pillow ::) and light hurt my eyes. I went to bed feeling absolutely fine and woke, unable to move with a very high temp..
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We won't. Do we ever over a Winter 'flu season? I didn't tell the GP in the 1980s when I had 'flu. Knew what it was and I didn't develop any side effects so didn't need to see a Doctor. Same with D&V. Lots of cases across the UK but not every event will be reported. Whereas measles has to be.
How worried R U?
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I think that people flooded have more to worry about!
"The main thing to remember is that the floodwater can be contaminated by silt, sewage, oil or chemicals," says Sanjay Jahal of UK charity the National Flood Forum.
"And some river water can carry things like Weil's disease."
The list of things you can catch from raw sewage is long and deeply unpleasant.
Campylobacteriosis, encephalitis, poliomyelitis, leptospirosis are just some of the illnesses that humans can catch from raw sewage.
So understandably, Sanjay recommends people in flood hit areas keep as far away from the water as possible.
Also: those in a Hotel in Tenerife are whinging. ::). If I was inside a hotel room with running water, a bed and electricity I would be less worried than if I were in an airport lounge! OK some might be wandering the Hotel Grounds, so what. As long as I am doing enough to stay free of the virus, with access to food and able to open a window ........ :-\ they are worrying about how to do laundry, haven't they heard of washing in the bath/sink and hanging dripping laundry over the bath :o. Never been students then :D
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Italy's Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio told reporters that an "infodemic" of misleading news abroad was damaging Italy's economy and reputation.
He said all the infections in Italy could be traced back to the two outbreaks in the north, and just 0.1% of towns in Italy were affected.
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Confirmed case a few miles from me, caught in tenerife.
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I've not been worried as we don't mix with people who travel.
More worried about D&V. Now that would floor me :'(.
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It's just as virulent as flu, but no one has any immunity, so it's more dangerous. As a herd, we rely on our immunity. Right about now, we ain't got none. Plus, all our services depend on this, i.e. the rarity of extreme complications, so we haven't got any beds for another eventuality.
Unfortunately, Italy is now providing a good example of what can happen if everyone just stands about shrugging their shoulders. Looks like their super spreader was a 38 year old marathon runner, who's now critically ill - bang goes the theory of only those with pre-existing conditions.
I mean it might or might not happen, but plan for the worst and hope for the best, eh. Rather than put your la-la hat on and pretend it's not happening.
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My thoughts. History is replete with examples of people being told not to panic before disasters. People don't panic anyway, they just need plenty of advice and educating about what to do.
Personally I think in the next 6 weeks I will limit my travel and trips out and be very careful with hand washing, etc. I think if everyone did that the virus would have a harder job spreading around. Simple really.
It makes me wonder how the world is going to contain a far ore dangerous virus, this is just a practice run for the next big pandemic.
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I was watching a school in the UK which had closed down for a day for 'deep cleaning?. The Head was saying every single thing that a child would touch had been deep cleaned. They showed tubs of pens, pencils etc. I find it hard to believe that they can do all that in a day. What about the people who did the cleaning? Same as the bus drivers who brought coachloads of people back to isolation units but had no protective clothes or masks whatsoever.
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Same here. The School was closed apparently because a parent! had returned from a holiday in Tenerife? Didn't say if the parent was showing symptoms, had stayed at the Hotel affected; nor if the parent had been into the School .......... ::)
Apparently the big cycle race has been cancelled due to 2 Italian members testing positive so now the Italian Team will be tested. But where have they been to Train etc.?
Is it possible that people have had this virus for years and simply gone to bed with fluids and Paracetamol-Type medication, that is has been in pockets World wide anyway. :-\
Time will tell.
AIDs was the last worry, then SARs and now ........
A marathon runner will have no resistance! Too skinny. No fat ........ skin and bone most of 'em, look at how ill Paula Radcliffe looked throughout her career. High end sports people appear to be a bit like sheep: either well or ..........
We are carrying on as usual. No extra hand washing. I might carry a gel to spray on surfaces should we go into a high-impact area. But I avoid people anyway due to my phobia :'( :-\.
I do think that Health England should by now have told everyone how to proceed, though knowing how varied the suggestions on HRT might be I wouoln'dt hold out much hope about that either ::)
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The reaction to the risk of this virus just illustrates the problem with health risk fear in 1st world countries. Many people expect to feel safe and when that sense is shaken panic happens. Personally I have never had that feeling of safety and except we live in a dangerous world. That's probably why I am not worried. This type of pandemic has always been on the cards and has been predicted by experts for years. Worrying will not help.
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I agree that worrying will not change anything, but damage limitation can,
handwashing, being cautious over crowded areas, listening to advice from people far more qualified than we are and, acting on the advice.
My 90 year old father lives with us and trying to educate him on handwashing correctly is proving time consuming, he has a daily paper, I'm asking him to wash hands after reading that....met with wide eyed disbelief, but it's a start.
I agree it may seem far less damaging than seasonal flu could be , but the crucial point here is we have a vaccine for that, and certain degree of immunitity as well, Coronavirus is an unknown virus that will infect far more people possibly, therefore the potential to kill more...my opinion only!
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I must admit I am a hand washer anyway. The first think I do, when I get home, is wash my hands. Also through the day if I handle food touch the waste bins etc., Its just habit.
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We?re due to go on Mediterranean cruise next Sunday and I can't help but feel a little wary about it. Part of me thinks don't be silly, just go and enjoy it, it will be fine, but there's another nagging voice saying I?ll be mixing with all those people on the aeroplane, airports, cruise ship 😱 Obviously we wouldn't get our money back now so I'm going to try to put it out of mind and try to enjoy our holiday, making sure I follow all the hygiene recommendations. Just watching someone on the TV saying there's a shortage of sanitisers.......no surprises there !!!
Rosie x
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Exactly. We have just made the final payment on our holiday in June. More worried about risk of cancellation because of travel restrictions than the virus.
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Yes, you?re right ladies......we can't put our lives on hold because of ?what if's? xx
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ENJOY! The Bomb might go off B4 you get to travel anyway ;)
I wash hands all the while - B4 touching food, after the loo, feeding the wild birds, going to the compost. Never after reading the news paper or opening the mail though. It has to be handled by someone carrying the virus. It is said: 3 days to catch a cold, 3 days to endure it, 3 to pass it on ;-). I do wonder how many people ordinarily have viruses but there ain't this much fuss made?
Also: because we vaccinate ...... people no longer build up an immunity. We don't have the 'flu virus but we haven't had 'flu since the 1980s.
Take enough medication in case you get a cold/flu symptoms. ENJOY! I am quite sure that hygiene will be stricter anyway. At least until the media picks on something else to niggle about ::). It will be interesting to see if you are swabbed on arrival though ;-)
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Nope. Because I don't mix with very elderly nor very young. My GrandMums lived to 85/6 so were born in the mid 1890s, went through all the various plaques and pestilence ......... I think a lot of the problem with modern day media is that Papers want to sell so print without proof. When I was growing up one never heard of people dying of measles for example and we had children with polio in School which was far more of a worry for parents.
I think the danger with a lot of viruses is pneumonia. Which I think can be either bacterial or viral?
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Thanks CLKD. I said to my OH that I wonder if they will take temperatures before we board !
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People that die from flu usually develop pneumonia and they tend to be the elderly or already ill.
With any sort of infection, virus or bacteria, it's how your immune system responds that is key. Serious complications often occur when the bodies immune response is extreme. Therefore it's not the infection that kills but bodies response. Both compromised and over responsive immune systems can be a problem.
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I always keep a small hand sanitiser in my handbag and the glove compartment of the car. I use it all the time. Some public toilets are awful with blocks of slimy soap or clogged up soap dispensers.
If I am served by somebody in a bakery or cafe and they don't wear disposable gloves I always tell them that's the end of the transaction. Some look at me as if I'm in the wrong!
There was a famous person who I read about and he says he has never had a cold or flu in his life and he insists it's because he never shakes hands with anybody. Unfortunately I have forgotten his name but I quite believe it.
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I remember reading similar PF. I'm the same with servers, not so much with gloves 'cos they can carry germs but if they wipe the back of their hand under the nose or scratch their heads ;D. "You can put *that* in the bin, wash your hands and please start again"! After all, I might be the local Environmental Health Officer on her day off ;) ;D
You could ring ahead Rosie and ask the questions - then let us know ::). "What precautions are you taking in the wake of the virus and to prevent sickness and other nasties B4 we board" ;-).
Apparently someone off that cruise liner has died in Tokyo -
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That's a very good idea CLKD. I will do that.
Rosie x
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You can find out what precautions are planned?
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P and O cruises have sent an email outlining their policy and offering to transfer bookings if people are concerned.
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That's interesting Two Hoots. Do you know if that's on all of their cruises or just affected areas?
Rosie x
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;D that's very funny, I like that. 😊
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That's interesting Two Hoots. Do you know if that's on all of their cruises or just affected areas?
Rosie x
I think it's just a general email, I don't even have a cruise booked with them this year :) check their website if you want a read I'm sure it must be on there. I did wonder about cruises that start or finish in Venice, will those companies make alternative arrangements ?
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Has anyone else had a text message about the virus. Looks like it's a govt one. I've had two now.
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Nope, what does it say?
Be careful though as there is info on the WHO website about scammers taking advantage of the situation.
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How would anyone have my mobile number who would send me a medical text :-\ - too much like Big Brother to me :o.
Most countries have meetings about what might happen: terrorism, germs, earthquakes. Apparently all Councils have an Emergency Plan but they aren't allowed to publish it ::) - I was told recently that it's too long to pin on the village notice board and they don't want to freak people out. So that's helpful in an emergency. Not >:(
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Has anyone else had a text message about the virus. Looks like it's a govt one. I've had two now.
I've had two from Patient Access linked to my surgery's online system. My GP communicates by text quite often.
Taz x
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GP surgeries CLKD. Ours send text reminders for appointments.
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Not to me they don't ;D .... so those who don't have mobile phones are missing out on what may be important information >:(
there's a lot of hugging and kissing at the Worlds' in Berlin right now ::). No sign of worry there!
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Here it is
f you've travelled to the UK from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau in the last 14 days and have a cough, fever or shortness of breath - or have been in close contact with someone with confirmed coronavirus - please stay indoors and call NHS 111. Even if symptoms are mild - do not go to a GP surgery, pharmacy or hospital and avoid close contact with other people. For latest advice, visit the Department of Health website or
I cut out the last bit after "or" as it's a link to a site in case it's dodgy. . But I went into it myself and it looks like an official Gov.uk page. With latest info about the virus.
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Has anyone else had a text message about the virus. Looks like it's a govt one. I've had two now.
I have had one from my GP practice. I also have to attend a first aider training session at work next tuesday. They are putting together special grab bags with extra equipment and instructions.
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Katejo. Crikey. : :-\
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Here it is
f you've travelled to the UK from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau in the last 14 days and have a cough, fever or shortness of breath - or have been in close contact with someone with confirmed coronavirus - please stay indoors and call NHS 111. Even if symptoms are mild - do not go to a GP surgery, pharmacy or hospital and avoid close contact with other people. For latest advice, visit the Department of Health website or
I cut out the last bit after "or" as it's a link to a site in case it's dodgy. . But I went into it myself and it looks like an official Gov.uk page. With latest info about the virus.
Yes that's the same as mine.
Taz x
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Taz 2. Must be legit.
Glad it wasnt a dodgy txt with a virus in it 🤣🤣
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:lol: you're on Form tonight :great:
No one has stated how to treat 'flu. Usually it's pain relief, paracetamol and plenty of fluids. DH asked me a few moments ago, had I seen any mention of how to actually treat it!
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Some people must be stocking up on food as my supermarket delivery man told me that yesterday and today have been even busier than just before Christmas. Can't say i had considered it, but who really knows how this thing is going to pan out?!!.
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Wow, not happening here. If anything supermarket seems quieter.
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We had texts from our surgery last week about the Coronavirus. Mum's care home has signs up and hand sanitiser available. Even a couple of charity shops in town has signs up about it.
I was just reading that most stores in Norwich have run out of hand sanitisers and face masks. unbelievable.
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The fear factor ramping up Barnacle ::)
Yes, i know. I have heard that a part of a GP's surgery in the town had to have a deep clean after a patient was suspected of having it, so maybe that sparked a bit of a panic amongst the locals. They eventually tested negative.
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I had an email tonight from Ocado saying they were getting my demand for deliveries and customers were ordering more than usual.
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I've just found a Daily Mail online article about reader tips for stock piling. It's this sort of thing that causes problems and it's utterly ridiculous.
World has gone mad :madeyes:
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I did consider buying more toilet rolls and canned goods ;D. I wonder whether food banks will suffer shortages?
A few years ago there was a thought that by using all these hand gels etc. it was making germs resistant ::). I went back to soap and hot water partly due to the plastics issue. But OH I hate sticky soap. ;D
This will run. Until something over takes it ...........
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Wet wipes will do, if you are out and about.
Eldest son just boarded a plane to Prague with his partner. Lots of people with face masks apparently.
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Any with hand gel though? Best time to go touring, streets will be empty etc.. ;)
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They're visiting the inlaws so lots of home cooked Czech food and beer, of course.
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Oh ........ sounds lovely.
All those cyclists in UAE tested negative so that was a kick reaction then ::).
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I have right-sided sciatica - in the back of the calve in2 the foot >:(
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Don't think it's a virus symptom though ;D.
Try lying on your back and pulling your knees up to your chest, one at a time.
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;D. as long as you aren't watching with a camera ........
what was the question :-\ :-X
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I do wonder how many people testing 'positive' would under normal situations, have gone to bed with a Whisky and lemon ::). It may be that similar viruses are out and about and we never get to hear about them.
The local foodbank was stuffed after C.mas but I haven't looked recently.
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The experts are saying that there are many people infected with symptoms so mild, or non existent, they don't realise they have it. I think this makes containment pretty near impossible.
I also heard some health official (can't remember who), suggest that anyone with a virus should self isolated, Coronavirus or not. Interesting.
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That's the usual advice though but far too many of the UK public actually isolate. So D&V, 'flu, common cold etc. spread . Especially in open plan offices, I've seen D&V go through a room of 25 within 3 days :o - the moment anyone complained I took myself off sick so I never caught it.
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The hysteria will do far more damage that the virus at this point.
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That's the usual advice though but far too many of the UK public actually isolate. So D&V, 'flu, common cold etc. spread . Especially in open plan offices, I've seen D&V go through a room of 25 within 3 days :o - the moment anyone complained I took myself off sick so I never caught it.
Don't you mean far too FEW isolate? 😃
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;D. probably ;D
People shouldn't go to work with a cold, upset gut, 'flu or a cough! After all, work gets done if someone goes on holiday or to a funeral ;-)
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;D. probably ;D
People shouldn't go to work with a cold, upset gut, 'flu or a cough! After all, work gets done if someone goes on holiday or to a funeral ;-)
The problem is that you can't win with this. You?re right, you shouldn't go in work with coughs, colds etc but then if you are off sick too many times from work, you get in trouble.
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So very true Littleminnie.
In an ideal world yes, but the work place is far from that.
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🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀
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;D. probably ;D
People shouldn't go to work with a cold, upset gut, 'flu or a cough! After all, work gets done if someone goes on holiday or to a funeral ;-)
The problem is that you can't win with this. You?re right, you shouldn't go in work with coughs, colds etc but then if you are off sick too many times from work, you get in trouble.
When I did jury service, i met a juror who told me that her workplace was very strict about sick leave. On starting work, their contract included a clause which said something like "If I am on sick leave, I will not leave the house other than to go to the GP/hospital appt".
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I know a bloke who was raised by his grandparents. The Company he worked for denied him time off telling him that he had to use Annual not Compassionate Leave for both their funerals ...... he took them to Court and won. He was told on both occasions that 1 could only take Compassionte Leave for parents ......... his had both died when he was very young . When they docked his pay packet ......... Good Solicitor ;-)
So Managers must change their ways? Accept that if people continue to bring Germs into the work place more will be off sick for longer or more often. Of course, 1 cannot ask a lady why she is taking time off ;)
I've been out and about across Buckinghamshire for a change, no masks in evidence
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Just saw on the news that an Infant School in Berkshire has decided to close as a staff member has contracted Coronavirus.
Here we go ....... grandparents in that part of Berkshire quaking in their boots!
No - we're made of sterner stuff ;D ;D
Taz x :D
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;D
I'm not either a parent or ..........
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Yep. Or all put together into the School with plenty of food, loo rolls and let the Bug take it's Course?
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I've just seen bottles of hand sanitizer (on eBay) from Lidl for 10-20 times the normal price. I did wonder if it would happen after seeing the empty shelves x
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Typical CG.....😠
I was after some on Saturday, couldn't get any! 😡
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Make your own? Soap will run out next ? ::). Alchol? Vinegar? Hot water, often. Laundry towels etc. daily [I do anyway]. Dry in the sunshine when possible. I had to peg my towels hard yesterday ;D
Where does the gel come from, China ?
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You can make your own. There are lots of recipes on the net.
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Drink the alcohol ?
Maybe print a couple Shadyglade?
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Some parents at my daughters school are sending their children in with the small travel bottles to use x
Will have a look shadyglade as hadn't thought of that x
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Yes, the small ones we all carry around with us anyway, have done for years.
Will look around tomorrow for some, if not I will make my own.
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Most recipes have vodka and aloe vera. Look quite simple.
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They may not work though
https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/wellness/homemade-hand-sanitiser-effective-doctors-advice-12397274
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Got some hand gel from M&S at weekend.
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:ange: so am I but probably not today ;-)
It is what it is .......... I suspect that it's been laying around in clusters for years, with people suffering but being told to go to bed, take plenty of fluids and Paracetamol ::) otherwise how would people become infected if they haven't travelled or had contact with bats .........
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That thought had crossed my mind, that is has been around, undetected for sometime. If you get flu you only see your doctor if you get serious complications and even then do they test for the strain. :-\
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Got some hand gel from M&S at weekend.
I've just found some in the desk draw. I don't know if it goes off as it's been there for years. ::)
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Nowt to go off - does alcohol go off ;)
I have bottles in the camper, in the car, under the sink ...........
When I had 'flu in March 1988 and again in March 1999 I never told the GP. DH treated me with fluids and pain relief as necessary and I ached and slept 3-4 days away. The 2nd year my dog fell into our ponds :o ;D how I pulled her out I will never know, I had been out of bed for 3 hours!
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If 1 has flu they can't get out of bed to the phone anyway ::) ........ I couldn't open my eyes, lift my head from the pillow, get to the bathroom without crawling - that's how I knew it was 'flu.
DH suggests using meths-based hand wash if everything else runs out, mixed with household detergent. Then a good hand cream to prevent skin drying out.
We went to Costco this afternoon, I took my gel to wipe the trolley handle. The man at the entrance had a duster but he didn't know what was in it, but apparently it could kill a horse :-\. He wiped the handle but not all over the metal work - lip service me thinks ::)
No one was wearing masks and this is an multi-ethnic store. Many shelves were less full than usual so expect people had been in over the weekend. Our stuff is packed away now, cuppa to hand. PHEW!
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Jordan's health minister has announced that a Jordanian man who flew in from Italy two weeks ago has tested positive for the new coronavirus - the first case confirmed in the kingdom.
The man was quarantined at home and is in a stable condition, Saad Jaber said. Another Jordanian citizen is under close observation, he added.
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Hi! I haven't read the Link but if it is advertising then it isn't allowed?
Browse round.
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Im going to die too, I had a sandwich whilst I was out and I didn't wipe the box after the man touched it to scan it..... 🙀🙀🙀🙀. 🤣😂
Nor did I wipe the trolly handles, or use anything after I'd touched the cash in my purse!
I must be next on the virus's hit list! 🤷♀️
it's all starting to sound like a horror film.
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Actually the easiest thing would be to wear disposable gloves whilst out and bin them on return. They look good with matching mask.
Actually that's a good idea, I kept thinking gloves are no good because you take them off, touch them, put them on again, etc, but if they are disposable you can put them in the outside bin before going in the front door back home.
I've taken my sambuccol (elderberry syrup) today, sure it works on coronavirus if it works on the flu.....here's hoping, lol.
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OK, so my brother is a doctor and works in a public hospital in Australia. I asked him about the virus and whether the hysteria is warranted. This was his reply: "No one is sure. It is definitely more contagious than SARS, but not as deadly. It is more deadly than influenza but not as contagious. I won't be travelling overseas in the near future in case of quarantine". He sent this via text to me yesterday.
Let us not forget that SARS, Avian flu and now the coronavirus all started in the wet markets in asian countries. You would think they would have learned by now that these places are breeding grounds. China shut down the wet market in Wuhan when it was too late. Let's hope that this time, they have learned something and this terrible trade in live wild animals stops!
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Over here most of the recent cases seem to be coming from people who have been to Italy, the latest being a school girl from Devon who went during half term. My daughters school has several children off at the moment that are being tested that originally went back, but have now been removed x
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Hopefully one positive outcome will be that the population at large will be more attentive to personal hygiene. That would help reduce colds and flu in general.
Knowing human nature though I suspect the effect will be short lived. ::)
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Stellajane = They look good with matching mask! ;D ;D. We all need those white throwaway overalls forensic people wear, with masks, and gloves, we'd all be looking rather fantastic.... ;D
To be honest, what shadyglade said is true.
I've witnessed people leaving the toilets without even swilling their hands, let alone washing them with soap and water. 🤢😡
Ok, so they may apply antibacterial gel when they actually get out of the toilets, BUT what have they touched AS they've left? 🤔.....
Isn't basic hygiene taught anywhere anymore?
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Stellajane = They look good with matching mask! ;D ;D. We all need those white throwaway overalls forensic people wear, with masks, and gloves, we'd all be looking rather fantastic.... ;D
To be honest, what shadyglade said is true.
I've witnessed people leaving the toilets without even swilling their hands, let alone washing them with soap and water. 🤢😡
Ok, so they may apply antibacterial gel when they actually get out of the toilets, BUT what have they touched AS they've left? 🤔.....
Isn't basic hygiene taught anywhere anymore?
I don't think basic hygiene is taught by parents any more. Over the years we've had loads of kids coming for tea here or staying over and very few of them wash their hands after using the loo or before eating. I always have to remind them.
I have read several reports that children don't even know how to blow their nose properly. They don't know that they should empty one side before the other and not just sniff it all back up again.
It used to make me feel sick when they used to have those low salad bars in supermarkets where small kids used to cough and sneeze all over them or start filling a container then just abandon it and walk away.
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Reporting for Duty Girls ;D - got through another night without D&V ......... :-\
There are more Germs on the keyboard than on your bathroom toilet seat! ;)
Tnx yellow flower. Trouble is, not many countries are allowing people in [for holidays] or out [to return home] ::) and why, if children have been to Italy, have they not self isolate B4 returning to School :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Only a very few countries have travel restrictions CLKD. To be honest it doesn't really work anyway. Italy stopped flights from China but ended up with the biggest outbreak in Europe. People get around restrictions anyway by taking indirect routes.
We will still be taking our holiday In June, unless it is cancelled by our tour operators under government advice. Fingers crossed 🤞.
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Lots of sporting events have been cancelled for the next 3 weeks :-\
Best time to travel: empty planes, no tourists in St Mark's Square, Trevi Fountain easily viewed .........
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Exactly.
I remember the panic over BSE. We went and bought lots of reduced beef in Waitrose for the freezer. ;)
Every cloud......
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So that's why the freezers were empty when we got there ! ;D
Has anyone who had been given the 'flu vaccine been affected by this particular bug?
Does anyone know how people are supposed to deal when self isolating: I haven't heard of how to treat symptoms :-\ nor have I been aware of how hospital patients have been treated ..........
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Also: do rinse any hand gel containers under boiling water several times a day particularly if you take them out and about for use on handles etc.. I do this around the house with hand containers daily, even the soap gets a wash :D
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Hello ladies.
Shadyglade - your comment about BSE reminded me that I also survived the Salmonella in eggs crisis and the danger of Listeria in cooked and chilled food. Mind you I paid particular attention to the Listeria one as I was pregnant at the time.
Obviously no one knows how this will all play out and some people have died after getting Coronavirus so it needs to be taken seriously but I cannot bring myself to panic just yet.
Take care everyone. Now more than ever lol.
K.
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People die from side effects. i.e. pneumonia triggered by a virus. I think it's is recognising if one thinks 'flu is impacting on lungs with difficulty in breathing.
I haven't had any news from our local Health Authority. By now the Government should have sent every household details of how hospital patients have been treated and what home owners should stock to help symptoms.
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CRUFTS tomorrow ;D
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Yes. People from all over coming here to BIRMINGHAM! ....that's just dandy that is! 😏
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You can come down here ;D ....... except there's an outbreak in our area. Again ::)
Still nowt from the Heath Authority. ........
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No need to worry about the virus girls. Apparently the Expess has an article informing us that an asteroid is heading our way, and could wipe us out.
Phew that's a relief 😌.
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No need to worry about the virus girls. Apparently the Expess has an article informing us that an asteroid is heading our way, and could wipe us out.
Phew that's a relief 😌.
Any idea when it's due, I'll eat all the chocolate I can get my hands on while I have the chance ;D
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I would start now Two hoots, it's never too early to eat chocolate 🍫. ;D
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Swine flu was supposed to be very contagious wasn't it? one of my sons got it, the rest of us,5 in the house didn't
I had to go to collect some special kind of antibiotics for him, luckily it is only 10 minutes away walking
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Friends of mine had Swine Flu and felt really ill - like they had the 'flu ::). Will this mean that they have an immunity to this current Bug.
Oh a Meteorite ......... let me know what time so I don't waste my money buying tinned foods etc. to store against Corvid ?? what ever it is :D
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The 2.5 mile long asteroid will close in on the Earth on the 29th April.
Plenty of time for chocolates then.
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If the chocolate shelves are empty by mid-day, you'll know who to blame ;D
Where is it likely to hit the Earth? Usually a desert ...........
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29th is ok it's after my birthday ;D
Lots of stories of panic buying, I'm sure they'll wonder why chocolate is on the list but we'll know ;D
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Yes, apparently there are no more toilet rolls available anywhere in the world.
Isn't life strange. ::)
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Waitrose is full of toilet rolls so don't panic and there is plenty of chocolate left ;)
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I would start buying stellajane ...........
Plenty of anti-bacterial sprays for bathrooms/kitchens in Waitrose this morning. Plenty of 'domestic'-type toilet cleaner.
65% alcohol in hand gels is important otherwise hot water/soap or household detergents strip away the top layer of the skin :o which kills germs.
I forgot to take a spray to the supermarket earlier :-\
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okay I'll admit I'm getting a little concerned as 34 new cases in U.K. today, but more by the panic buying causing shortages rather than the virus as we have a 50 mile round trip to go shopping so only tend to go once a week x
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Can you order on line? It's too complicate for me to even consider ;D but lots of neighbours seem to manage.
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If you think you may have it, self isolate and call 111. They take it from there.
What you must not do is go to your surgery or A&E.
It's all on the NHS website.
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Quite right. One expert I heard estimated that 50%, of those infected, will have no symptoms at all.
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UK numbers jumped today. Apparently.
But the News hasn't reported the numbers of hospitals closed due to noro-virus ::) which is far more contagious!
Has anyone seen reports of how patients admitted to Hospital have been treated? Drugs. Fluids. IV ABs?
Same as in a usual year then? Go to bed. Feel awful for 3-4 days. Recover slowly. Into work and affect the next person .........
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I'm going to an event at the British Library, on the 14th. Just received an email containing lots of dos and don't etc, plus don't come if you have been to certain countries.
I wonder if it will actually go ahead if there are restrictions on large gatherings. I have no idea how many are due to attend anyway
:(
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Book Fair has been cancelled ? tomorrow ?
The Bomb could go off B4 then Shadyglade ;-)
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Breaking news,2.000 on a cruise ship off Greece quarantined.after a passenger tested positive
UKcases rise to 86,and chief medical officer says epidemic is now likely
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How long was the cruise at sea for ::)
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The passenger with the virus left the ship a week ago. None of the present passengers has been ill or tested.
Sounds just like a precaution but of course the Sun has the headline PLAGUE SHIP.
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:lol: followed by "It's behind You!" as the meteorite lands ::)
I'm coughing. Should I isolate? It's dry. Due to reflux and post nasal drip. Tired. Due to busy dreams last night ....... ???
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WHY?
There are fears of global shortages of some common drugs after India limited the export of certain medicines
Trying it on with the UK Government to charge more?
Also: a news item earlier stated that instead of suspected patients going into the hospital they are being swabbed in a specially built area [looked like a cheap tent from a camping store] outside the building: probably in the carpark? : then they leave to await the results. It wasn't clear if they 'leave' to go home or to a holding area .... hopefully the Hospital knows where the suspects are being contained ;D .........
Also thinking about how many people I have been in contact with in the last 3 weeks, well it's pretty much the same as I see weekly. Occasionally the neighbours; into the village shop twice a week; into the supermarket several times a week and we usually go to the same lady each time to catch up on news ::). Garden Centre weekly so the same staff there then into the Cafe and Antique Centre - same staff in both places. We actually don't mix with strangers on the whole at this time of year ........... so it would probably be easy to track who we have been in contact with.
Yourselves?
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I guess it depends on how many people you were within three metres of during your shopping trip etc?
Taz x
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I have quite a lot of shopping in and I've sorted a lot for my mum as she was having a lot of hospital appointments recently.
Tomorrow I'm going to make sure medicenes are ordered which will then keep me out of a pharmacy for a month.
It's all a bit boring though and the thing is I'll run out of anything I 'stockpile,' as I will just use it or eat it. I don't come from the generation that learned to ration things ;D
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:o. Conspiracy theory Avalon - and why stock pile loo roll? Bottled water. Biscuits. Milk but loo paper ........ unless the media shut down so that there's no news paper to cut into squares ::)
I got through the night without D&V ..............
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Flybe goes under :-\
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It concerns me that people are being told to ring 111 but I guess that's all there is. My friend's daughter works for 111 and has no medical experience, she just answers the phone and instructs them as per the computer screen. She is nice enough but really scatty and usually sleep deprived as she has two very small children who apparently don't sleep at night. I certainly wouldn't put my trust in her.
I have recently read several cases where people have died after following instructions from 111 staff. it's quite worrying.
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The annoying thing is they're not saying where all the new cases are ie mapping them in UK on an ongoing basis like at the beginning (apparently Public Health England have said this anyway) and the hot spots. Is this so that we are all paranoid and act as if the next person might have it?
Hurdity x
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Stellajane, if 111 thinks you may be infected you will be tested. I presume that if that is negative there will be no reason to self isolate.
Probably not a full proof system but nothing ever is. The first person you may talk to on 111 is often not medically trained. However, if what you say matches the symptoms you will be passed on to a medic. Well that what happened when I called a few years ago on another matter.
The decision to stop area infection numbers was a Government one, not NHS England. They have now backtracked and reversed it.
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The advice on sneezing into a tissue I found highly amusing for a different reason - I mean can you imagine it - you suddenly feel a tickle, and then "Aah....aaah........aaah.....aaah...." pause while you run or delve around to find a tissue (depending where you are) "....aaah....aaah.....aaaah.....aaah" . Great found one "....tishoo" !!!!! I mean I think i'ts going to be the sleeve ( and coat in a bin!) for most people.;D If I'm caught short (so to speak) I tend to do a closed sneeze that doesn't go anywhere but someone told me a couple of days ago you can burst a blood vessel by doing that! Can't win!
Hurdity x
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The news spends 20 minutes per bulletin on coronovirus, but it doesn't tell us what we need to know, what happens when you call 111 and they suspect you may have the virus, what happens next ?
Of the 90 or so confirmed cases, how many are now recovered and back home ? Or did they isolate at home and not even go into hospital ?
Are they checking people arriving into the country from China, Italy, Korea etc at the airports, it's all well and good telling us to wash our hands but if you can arrive and have no check then that's asking for trouble :-\
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There have been news items about testing. You have to attend a facility when you have swabs taken. This is done whilst you are still in your car, by a nurse in protective clothing.
As for the conspiracy theories, they are rife at the moment. Best not to listen as they are rarely correct.
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You never know your luck. ;D
I expect there are arrangements for the car less.
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There have been news items about testing. You have to attend a facility when you have swabs taken. This is done whilst you are still in your car, by a nurse in protective clothing.
As for the conspiracy theories, they are rife at the moment. Best not to listen as they are rarely correct.
Wasn't that testing in a large London hospital, is it the same in rural areas, it's only half a news story :( and if it's positive then what ? Does everyone have to be admitted to hospital ? All we need to know are basic facts, no scare stories about how the NHS won't be able to cope >:(
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There have been news items about testing. You have to attend a facility when you have swabs taken. This is done whilst you are still in your car, by a nurse in protective clothing.
As for the conspiracy theories, they are rife at the moment. Best not to listen as they are rarely correct.
Wasn't that testing in a large London hospital, is it the same in rural areas, it's only half a news story :( and if it's positive then what ? Does everyone have to be admitted to hospital ? All we need to know are basic facts, no scare stories about how the NHS won't be able to cope >:(
To be honest I wouldn't worry TH. If it's thought you need testing it's up to the Health Authority to make sure that happens.
Also it will probably get to the point where only the really ill are hospitalised and the rest stay at home. Don't think we are anywhere near that yet.
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I'm not worrying there has only been one case near me, it's the news it's not giving the basic information people need, I find it really annoying :-\
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Or in a tent outside a hospital as I previously said.
A person who feels ill will be asked if they have been to affected countries in the past 4 weeks. Or whether they have had contact with persons who have returned from those affected countries. Then those people will also be contacted to see if they have suffered symptoms.
It should be easy to contact all passengers on flights/cruises as there will be information collected that you could never believe is collect. Apparently. Those on trains/tube will be more difficult track.
I would wait 24 hours to see whether the symptoms remain static or get worse then ring? We already know who we have been in contact with and if they have been abroad/not. It is best to take the tissue home and burn it - not leave it in a bin for the crows to pull out to investigate ::). I get the impression that the Government of the Day have no idea! No common sense ?
I have a background head and neck ache daily. No temperature. No aches and pains. No 'flu-like symptoms.
Suddenly we are 'short of Nursing Staff' - last year it was over 40,000 ....... but not a lot can be done - getting people back into Nursing won't happen easily due to CRB checks required. They could do paper work and I could offer my services but can't be bothered to get up early enough. If my Surgery rang for assistance I would need 2 days to get up to date on computer technology ::).
There's a case near us ...... but that's all we know. Data protection means that we can't know who it might be so every one is looking at every one else - 'they' keep telling us to stand so many metres away from others - what's that in pounds, shillings and pence.
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How many lorry drivers in and out of Europe via Dover etc. are being temperature tested B4 being allowed to continue?
It's all over the news like a rash again this evening and Matt Hancock has changed his tune now ::)
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It's to be expected, the world is a small place these days.
Can't say I'm over worried. Apparently it's nowhere near as deadly as Sars, and that only killed about 800 people worldwide.
Higher chance of being struck by lightning but it will keep the gutter press busy for a while. Every cloud etc.
My brothers are doctors. SARS infected around 8000 people and the death rate was 10%. My brothers tell me that coronavirus is more infectious than SARS, but less infectious than flu. The current mortality rate stands at 3.4%. 80% of people will have mild symptoms. 15% will have moderate symptoms and 5% will be severe.
The media should be ashamed of the reporting of this. They are causing panic and runs on items that are not in short supply. Quarantine is 14 days and people are behaving like there will be a lockdown for months.
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Because that's what they do.
Not all by any means but some just can't resist a good headline. Like the Sun headline PLAGUE SHIP and the Mail running an item on readers tips for stock piling. That's really not helpful.
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Fake news then.
Not completely, but we are not dealing with ebola. We are dealing with a virus that has the potential to cause pneumonia which can be fatal for the elderly and immune compromised. In first world countries, our medical systems should cope very well.
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I agree Stellajane. Create fear, control the people.
Perfectly timed distraction away from the economy, climate change and other stuff.
Call me a cynical old woman! Yes that's me
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yellowflower - percentages can be overly reassuring. They are irrelevant in this context. It is the absolute numbers of people that are likely to become infected and therefore potentially die which is the cause for concern - and the possible inadequte numbers of intensive care beds for those who need hospital treatment due to respiratory difficulties, when the infection is at its peak.
Hurdity x
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Every time I turn on any channel some ?expert? is advising people to wash their hands and not to touch their face.
I could never visit the loo without washing my hands thoroughly, likewise before cooking or handling food. When we used to go on long journeys we always ?freshened up? as soon as we arrived. I taught my kids the same. It is just unthinkable not to wash your hands but I expect some people need telling.
facebook is awash with a lengthy post about 'someone's uncle who is an expert in a Chinese hospital?. I haven't shared it because I thought some of it was dubious. Today Full Facts has published their response to it and while some of it is accurate, other stuff is not. Google Full Facts Coronavirus Misleading Facebook Post.
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Fake news or otherwise sells papers. I noted that Megan and Harry weren't keeping away from the Irish public in their walk about yesterday ::)
All 'flu viruses have the potential to weaken the immune system particularly in those with already diagnosed chronic conditions or who are undergoing chemo therapy. 'Flu doesn't kill per se, but the underlying health issues may well not be strong enough to fight the particular bug. The person who died in the UK was in her 80s, had chronic health conditions. Apparently. Me: I think that reporting such issues is a breach of patient confidentiality, where do the media get that kind of information from ? :-\. Had I given out any such details I would have been sacked on the spot.
Statistics can prove what the statistician wants them to prove. I worked with several ::).
Do what is necessary to keep you and yours safe. It is quite obvious that the Government of the Day have hardly any idea how this virus works and Matt Hancock is a Minister not a clinician.
I got through the night. Again. Don't all go 'shame' ;D
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Good points Teresa.
Also many infected have no symptoms, I have heard that could be 50%. If that is so what's the point of self isolating.
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It is what it is. Some say that the Planet is over-crowded and we are 'due' a placque ::) [pity I can't spell :D ]
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It is what it is. Some say that the Planet is over-crowded and we are 'due' a placque ::) [pity I can't spell :D ]
Plague! Made me smile ;D
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;D. tnx PF
Apparently in Italy deaths are many. Most have required IC treatment with intubation.
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For those who want some hard facts and analysis, as opposed to all the rumours, hearsay and supposed fake news which abound in the media, here is a comment on Reddit about the recent WHO report who sent a team of 25 international experts to investigate the situation, in which the writer highlights and summarises from some of the findings and stats.
https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fbt49e/the_who_sent_25_international_experts_to_china/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Here is the link to the main report:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf
Hurdity x
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;D
No loo rolls in our local shops. I had a conversation with a lass of about 35 regarding 'going across the yard to use the vault with the Pink 'un as we didn't have loo roll anyway' ..........
It is a respiratory virus not D&V :D. By the way, I got through the night. Again ;)
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Stop reading ......... ??? ;D
How much information about patients that do succumb to side effects of this Virus should the public be allowed to know? How much is in the 'best interests'? It's a grey area between patient confidentiality and what is news worthy. M Keynes has had a death: 82 year old with underlying long time chronic illness. So he would probably have died from those or from seasonal 'flu. Or not.
Also: someone who died during the week in the UK had been tested positive in hospital but died "B4 the 2nd test came back". Which means what exactly?
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It doesn't work trying to work out what will happen here by examining data from China.
Firstly the virus will have already mutated. Second the area infected in China is heavily polluted so people were already resporaily compromised. Third, no free health care in China so again people more likely to be less robust. Fourthly different populations respond differently to the same virus.
We will just have to wait and see and avoid unreliable news sources.
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1 of the hotels holding Corona quarantine patients in China has just collapsed injuring around 70 people!
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Now call me a cynic :-\ :'(
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Have you seen the song from Vietnam? Worth a look-see ;-)
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We bought our normal shopping yesterday except for an extra bag of dog food and the shops were busy but only handwash and loo roll was low on stock. Didn't see any panic buying and we have confirmed cases just down the road x
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How worried? It's a 'flu virus. It's 'flu season in the UK. People are being screened because they may have it. There was a GP at a surgery yesterday saying that they were swabbing everyone coming in who complained of respiratory problems. Well they shouldn't be in a surgery anyway, under normal circumstances! There isn't anything that can be done for a virus per se - it's 2ndary infection that gets treated ::)
It is the older people, mainly men that are dying - those with underlying chronic health disease. Not many reports about 'healthy' people dying from pneumonia via the 'flu. We had people self isolate in our village of 2,500 residents and no one knew ......... they went to Italy, didn't have symptoms but took the decision. Now they are out and about again, no problem.
As for fighting in stores - that's normal human behaviour when threatened. Those people won't survive when the bomb goes off ;-)
I bought an extra bathroom spray and some cat food yesterday ;D. I reached for the loo rolls to put into the food bank collection box but :o
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It is a new virus but they do crop up from time to time. I was reading yesterday about the Hong-Kong flu, which happened in the late 1960s. That was two virus combined into one and caused a problem for a couple of flu seasons.
There is nothing we can do but follow the advice. My sister is more concerned as she and her husband are in their 70s, with health problems. For me I am more concerned about the inconvenience factor. Whether my holiday will be cancelled or my trip to London next Saturday. Panic buying is stupid and annoying and the media saturation is over the top.
In some ways I am finding it fascinating, from a social science point of view. Don't worry though it will come to an end. Both China and Korea have got it under control now and so shall we.
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Absolutely - I have been worried ever since it spread outside China and even looking at the situation in China. Like I've already said on here - because it is a NEW virus, there is little or no immunity to it and therefore it is highly infectious so if very large numbers of people get it then large numbers will probably die. Of course we should be worried hence the government doing everything to try to contain the spread or at least delay it. The sheer numbers of people that could (will?) get it may well overwhelm the capacity of the health service to deal with it. It is a viral respiratory disease that affetcs the lungs and causes breathing difficulty. Many who are seriously ill need artifiicial help with breathing when the virus is at its worst but many of these make a full recovery with appropriate treatment ie artificial ventilation.
It is thanks to the enormous efforts in China that the epidemic there is under control and has not spread as quickly around that continent world as it could have done. It could have been a lot worse.
As for all the guff about subduing the population (did I read somewhere up thread?), never heard such nonsense! I would welcome draconian measures to contain this virus before it kills too many vulnerable people and occupies hospital beds needed for other people.
I have three close (immediate) family members who could be classed as vulnerable or at risk (and I'm not talking about people in their 70's generally. My husband is but I'm not worried about him) and yes I am very worried about them.
Re the mutations - this happens all the time apparently more so with RNS viruses. read an interesting article in New Scientist yesterday:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/
Enjoy the rest of the weekend and don;t forget to wash your hands ::) !
Hurdity x
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Ive stopped visiting my parents in the last week who are in their 70's as one of them is poorly already and even a bout of normal flu could really harm them, and in the last week 4 cases confirmed local to them and that made it become very real to me x
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China had been alerted to this virus way back in November .......... the diseases that have sprung from China apparently come from the same sources. Open, live animal markets .......... once might be a mistake, the 2nd should have been a learning curve but the 3rd!
But the rest of the World doesn't challenge China or India due to the increased reliance on products from Asia. As a throw-away society Europe buys from Japan, Taiwan or China ........ their use of cheap labour means that most Companies are able to undercut those in Europe and the UK. Apparently home industries are beginning to boom ;)
I remember Hong Kong 'flu which was a problem when I was growing up. I have no idea which strain/s I went down with in 1988 and 1989. I was too ill to even phone the GP for advice :-\ so certainly couldn't leave the house to infect anyone else ::)
Apparently milk is short ::)
Also: if the hotel in China has collapsed why chance have the hurriedly thrown up hospitals got of remaining standing?
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Coronavirus: The fake health advice you should ignore
By Reality Check team
BBC News
worth a giggle ..............
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I'm not worried myself, which is unusual for me because I worry about everything. But I know two people personally who are really terrified. One young man who is 29 and has no reason to be worried and the other in his fifties, who does have a few health issues. They are both at the stage of wanting to lock themselves away and just not see anyone to be on the safe side.
No matter what I say to try and calm and put things into perspective, it's just not working. All this stuff in the media, the total negativity, is just getting out of hand. I know we need to be informed and take precautions but it's verging on hysteria.
I don't know what I can do to help them. I guess they are not the only ones and there will be hundreds of frightened people feeling the same.
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I am a bit concerned but i am not panic buying, it is a novel virus, so that is more concerning. I also have two teens who both have health conditions that put them in the more at risk category, one good thing is it is making me think i should get back on the exercise bike and stop eating chocolate in the hope i am healthier to fight it if i get it!
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I'm concerned for my parents , who are well into their 90s and for myself, as I have asthma, which is normally well controlled, but with infections can be serious. 3 years ago I had pneumonia after what was a minor, silly cough, which landed me in hospital and several months of recovery. Fortunately, I don't catch things easily, probably due to teaching young children for years. But I have no intention of isolating myself in case! Only if I have to. What will be, will be.
My son is in a difficult situation. He and his family are booked to fly here from the USA in a couple of weeks. If he cancels he won't get the cost of the air fares back. He has been told that if he does come over and has to go into isolation through contact, he could lose his job! He's a paramedic, so is probably at more risk at work! Some decisions and discussions with his HR department tomorrow.
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The advice to ?bin? your used tissues puzzles me. I have always made my family flush used tissues down the loo. I hate the idea of used tissues sitting around in bins or waste baskets.
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We put kitchen roll, tissues and organic waste into our compost. After use they go into a bin with a lid on, which is emptied daily.
Ju Ju - he's a paramedic and they are threatening him with job loss >:( ......... I would be looking for another Company for which to work! Where in his Contract of Employment does it threaten him? This sounds typical Yankee reaction. However, I would stay put 'cos one never knows whilst travelling in an enclosed space what one might catch ::). Most people I know who fly regularly have regularly health issues.
Got through another night etc., etc., etc. .......
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Hiya ladies. My mum has just returned from her bowls club. A notice has gone up saying "do not kiss, hug or shakes hands". At the end of the match everyone was bumping elbows!!! The thing is everyone touches the Jack (one of the bowls) and the mats to move them, not to mention all the other surfaces. A doctor said on the radio that the virus doesnt penetrate (unbroken) skin on hands. It's the mucous membranes which quickly and very effectively absorb. I knew this from when my wife was having chemo and was advised about infection control. A nurse taught me how to wash hands properly and the importance of not touching your face, mucous membranes in the nose, eyes and mouth until you are able to thoroughly wash your hands. Its vital information I told my my elderly parents weeks ago. But it seems public awareness on this has been slow to be addressed. X
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Good points Tc. It's the touching of the face that important.
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Tnx. I touch my face all the while: it seems to be the place that, when washing up etc., gets the Biggest Itch >:(
I noted that none of the supermarkets were wiping down trolleys so I took my own hand wash ::) then my hands were sticky, the trolley handle was sticky ........
For years I have used hand gel B4 turning on taps in public places, or on handles where a lot of people go in/out ......... and a little dab as I leave ;-). It doesn't need much. I use a spray in the house on handles and taps, toilet push plungers etc..
Some elderly people have had problems getting basics and are quite distressed. I wonder how food banks will cope too.
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One problem we will have, if infection increases markedly here, is the lack of enough intensive care beds. We have the fewest per head in Europe. 10 years of austerity have not helped.
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Some countries are already treating intensive care in corridors so it isn't simply the UK Health Providers that will have difficulties. That actually isn't any difference to when I worked in a Hospital in the 1980s - beds full so patients on trolleys in the corridors of each Ward. Being a holiday destination it was 'common' across the specialities.
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Italy has one of the best health care systems in the world and it is crumbling. We don't have the IC beds to cope if we see a sudden spike. Quite worrying.
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My mum is due to start cancer treatment in three weeks time and she is terrified at the moment.
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Thank you :)
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The discussion on R4 this lunchtime was speculation re the Govt's approach following the cobra meeting - and the stark realities of mortality vs economic consequences and recession. If draconian measures are taken now, this can delay the peak of the epidemic (pandemic?), reduce pressure on the inadequate facilities to deal with huge number of seriously ill patients needing hospital care, and therefore mortality rates, but will likely have drastic economic consequences at least in the short term locally, and possibly longer as we are already seeing globally (stock markets etc).
Hurdity x
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I believe that Governments World wide haven't considered this type of epidemic ........ too reliant on antibiotic therapies and too head in the sand with regards how few medical staff UK hospitals actually have to keep a skeleton service running. For years we have been told that the Government of the Day has promised more medical staff ......... but don't seem to have taken into consideration un-safe working practices which force Nurses in particular to leave the NHS; early retirement and sickness amongst Staff at all levels. When I left the Service in the 1980s a Nurse stepped into my job. There was no consideration of replacing her ........ so that was a gap of a very skilled Nurse who was too tired to continue in that role.
A bit like education: we expect it to be available without knowing the working conditions.
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Antibiotics don't work for virus though. Also you can't produce a vaccine until a new virus actually appears.
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Hi Pennyfarthing re flushing tissues down toilet, they don't breakdown like toilet paper and could make things worse with our overloaded sewerage systems. Due to the number of surface wipes that seem to be flying off the shelves, I'm really concerned that when they are used in the bathroom/ toilet they are being flushed down the toilet too!
I'm trying to get into the habit of emptying our waste bin every day
Flutterby x
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I would have thought the opposite CLKD - that governments have had some sort of plans in place for an epidemic or pandemic (not sure when that will be declared?) such as this. However it's a bit like councils and gritters (but obviously way more serious!). Do you make sure you have enough gritters, snow-ploughs and stock-piles of grit for the one in 10 or 20 year terrible winter, or do you compromose and have plans in place for when that occurs? Less than ideal but more practical. Not sure what anti-biotics have got to do with it?
As for the NHS and staffing levels, I agree with you there, far too little investment!!
Hurdity x
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But GPs have prescribed ABs for viruses in order to keep patients quiet. For years. Hence now, Bugs are becoming immune ....... so the expected back up from ABs is less likely to help even the 2ndary complications such as pneumonia
flutteryby - that crossed my mind too :thankyou:. Hence the home composting system, everything buried in layers of garden waste, compost, newspapers ........ to break down. Years ago we burned items like that.
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Hi Pennyfarthing re flushing tissues down toilet, they don't breakdown like toilet paper and could make things worse with our overloaded sewerage systems. Due to the number of surface wipes that seem to be flying off the shelves, I'm really concerned that when they are used in the bathroom/ toilet they are being flushed down the toilet too!
I'm trying to get into the habit of emptying our waste bin every day
Flutterby x
I heard that very recently but had previously thought that this problem only applied to antiseptic/surface wipes. I always assumed that tissues did disintegrate like loo paper. The texture of tissues feels different to wipes.
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In the UK water companies are busy trying to sort out blockages so I try not to put anything 'down' that is unlikely to rot sufficiently. If in doubt keep it out ;-)
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But GPs have prescribed ABs for viruses in order to keep patients quiet. For years. Hence now, Bugs are becoming immune ....... so the expected back up from ABs is less likely to help even the 2ndary complications such as pneumonia
flutteryby - that crossed my mind too :thankyou:. Hence the home composting system, everything buried in layers of garden waste, compost, newspapers ........ to break down. Years ago we burned items like that.
I understood that the whole point of this new virus Covid19 is that one of the main characteristics is that it can cause viral pneumonia rather than bacterial, hence the danger, although the latter is still possible.
Hurdity x
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Cobra said DON'T PANIC. Or something like that.
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That's a snake then .............. :-X
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Hi Katejo yes wipes are definitely the worst and cause huge problems but I've been advised that tissues do not break down as easily as toilet paper
Flutterby x
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If you have not used bum wipes recently you would be surprised. They have drastically changed the product and it a job to use them without them falling apart before the job is done. ::)
Face and baby wipes are the ones to avoid.
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"It might prevent me ........ " so ring your departments and ask the question? No good worrying about issues that the NHS wouldn't necessarily share with patients .......... because they know doesn't mean that they have considered patients might actually like that info too ::)
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I'm always leaving tissues in my jeans pockets and they always stay in one piece after going through the washing machine, but if I've used loo roll it goes into tiny bitty pieces x
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It depends what else is in the wash. If it's a white sheet it stays intact, black cords and there are a million little pieces of white tissue all over them :(
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Loved this both for Womens day and stockpiling.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1237016089529368577's=08
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That could be my Mum ;D
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Hi Pennyfarthing re flushing tissues down toilet, they don't breakdown like toilet paper and could make things worse with our overloaded sewerage systems. Due to the number of surface wipes that seem to be flying off the shelves, I'm really concerned that when they are used in the bathroom/ toilet they are being flushed down the toilet too!
I'm trying to get into the habit of emptying our waste bin every day
Flutterby x
We use Tesco Eco 100% recycled and they?re just like toilet paper, I have a box beside me. I have never put wet wipes or facial wipes down the loo but assumed tissues were OK.
we have lived in this house for 30 years and never had a problem.
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I went to buy my Mum her usual antiseptic hand gel today and couldn't get any. All sold out. She has used it for years as she has a colostomy and has always been scrupulous about hygiene. She can sit on the loo and use that whereas she can't stand comfortably at a sink and wash her hands with soap any more. We will have to have a rethink when her last small bottle has gone.
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I work with quite a few Italians. Just had to scrape some young guy off the floor. He's so desperately worried. 600 intensive care beds available mean that the authorities have no option other than to triage early and treat those most likely to survive. Apparently, it's terrible in the lock down zone. And the people are so angry, especially at their own government. All that ridiculous 'there's nothing to worry about, stop listening to media hysteria' has really come back and bitten them hard, and the rest of Europe for that matter.
Business as usual only works until the stock market loses 10%.
I've have gone from being 'concerned' to being 'really very concerned'.
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Teresa. I'm sorry to hear that. I realy hope it doesnt come to affecting treatments and procedures for those who need it most like yourself.
Barnacle. Hope it goes o.k for your mum. It's never a good idea to expose a person on chemo whose immunity is compromised to any potential infection. It cant always be avoided if you are their carer and have a cold or virus but thats when mask, gloves etc.and scrupulous hygiene are important . My wife was told by the nurses in chemo to still get on with her life but to be very aware of exposure in large crowds and wear a mask and also to not be embarrassed to say to people. "Please dont hug me or kiss me".
Xx
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Just watching the news conference from Downing Street, and much to my surprise it is making sense and is very informative.
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Just watching the news conference from Downing Street, and much to my surprise it is making sense and is very informative.
Really making sense ! ;D What are they saying?
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Sense out of downing street? Stranger things have happened I guess :)
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Well it was what the experts said, to be honest. What Boris said, well he's Boris. ;D
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Didn't see it but I thought the upshot is that we'll carry on letting it spread just like Italy. Then when it's too late we'll wonder why we didn't try to stop it while we could. After all, business (or tax revenue) is more important than health.
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Apparently imports from China have dropped :-\
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Apparently imports from China have dropped :-\
I think that's understandable as so much of their manufacturing has been shut down.
Taz x
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Aahhhh ......... not us saying 'no'? At last?
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Didn't see it but I thought the upshot is that we'll carry on letting it spread just like Italy. Then when it's too late we'll wonder why we didn't try to stop it while we could. After all, business (or tax revenue) is more important than health.
What could we do now though except confine everyone to their houses and shut all public places, schools etc?
Hurdity x
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That at least would stop panic buying ?
My biggest fear is that the essential services will have such a loss of Staff levels that we will go onto short fuel/power as we did during the Miners' strike :-\. I think if we have good supplies we will survive because once the initial panic buying is over and people see that the shelves will be filled quite quickly, at least this week; most people will be OK. But if the public tend not to go out as often and we get a power outage etc. :-\
I'm off to buy matches and candles :whist:
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Didn't see it but I thought the upshot is that we'll carry on letting it spread just like Italy. Then when it's too late we'll wonder why we didn't try to stop it while we could. After all, business (or tax revenue) is more important than health.
What could we do now though except confine everyone to their houses and shut all public places, schools etc?
Hurdity x
That's what will happen anyway, we're just putting it off until it's too big to contain and many more people will die as a result. It's happened in China and Italy, it's well on it's way to happening here.
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I was half listening to something this evening on either Radio 4 or 5 which gave a detailed reason why it's not good to shut down everything too soon. Very scientific as to when it is put in place. I didn't understand it myself though!
Taz :-\
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Barnacle I sympathise..I have stage 4 cancer in my kidney, lung and bones.So naturally I'm worried.It might well prevent me from having biopsies, scans and important.hospital checks.
I'm so sorry to hear that Teresa. I hope that your appointments are unaffected by all this. Thinking of you x
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Didn't see it but I thought the upshot is that we'll carry on letting it spread just like Italy. Then when it's too late we'll wonder why we didn't try to stop it while we could. After all, business (or tax revenue) is more important than health.
They and some of us were unconcerned.
The whole of Italy now on lockdown.
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Just seen on the late news that Suffolk has it's first case, so that will make my mum even more jittery.
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The most chilling news out of Italy has to be that people are now dying because there just aren't enough critical care beds.
Get your act together UK >:(
I agree, we are leaving this all far too long.
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What is the usual situation in Italy though ? We are told in the UK what the Winter death rate is but how many of us take much notice unless directly affected :-\
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Italy has the oldest population in Europe so that makes the impact there greater. Hence also their death rate will be higher.
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Some European countries live closer to each other .......
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I was half listening to something this evening on either Radio 4 or 5 which gave a detailed reason why it's not good to shut down everything too soon. Very scientific as to when it is put in place. I didn't understand it myself though!
Taz :-\
I heard that thinking is not to take drastic measures too early. Analysis of the data so far show that the majority of cases are from people who have been to high risk areas or immediately connected to them. The number of cases of person to person transmission where the chain of infectivity is not known remains very very small. From study of lots of cases it is also thought that people are mostly not infectious until they show symptoms (think I gleaned that anyway, but someone can put me right if I've misremembered!). There will obviously be some though (so called super-spreaders?).
The difficulty is getting the timing right. Obviously the virus will almost be halted in its tracks if noone goes out for the next month and all public transport is stopped, but that's not practicable and nor is Italian style lock down for the moment.
But timing is crucial....
Hurdity x
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It's those that have a cold or don't realise that they are carrying the virus - what ever it might be - that are the ones to avoid ::). Our village shop has plenty of everything except hand sanitiser - that'll be the Co-op then ;-)
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Another 54 cases today.
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My workplace is preparing for a possible sudden requirement to close down and for us to work from home. We have to think about possible tasks to do at home and about accessing our usual resources remotely.
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There has just been an item on the news about that. It was concerning making sure the Internet connection is secure enough. How that's done is beyond me.
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Because more people in different areas will be putting pressure on services that may not be up to scratch. Rural areas have no where near the band width that workers expect in Cities ;-).
Off to buy some matches and candles in case the electric goes off ;)
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We seem to have a history of inaction until it's too late. They knew foot and mouth was in the country before the market in Longtown that spread it round the country. If they'd stopped animal movement before that day it would have remained a small localised outbreak. Instead it took hold and it took 5 months and thousands of animals killed to control it. Same with foot and mouth. The small outbreak in Devon/Cornwall was left uncontrolled until 3/4 of the country has it. Because of this inaction around 100,000 cattle are killed every year as well as badgers (and a tb death is an unpleasant one). I know these are animal diseases but corona virus won't be easy to eradicate once it takes hold and we're sitting back letting it spread. I wonder if things would be different if it killed middle aged politicians instead instead of the old and ill? I expect to survive it but it's very unlikely my m-in-l will.
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DH has had a text message about what to do if he feels unwell. I've been into the Surgery twice this week already and nowt was mentioned ;D mayB they can see I'm fine ?
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Bridlington arcade owner fills grabber machine with loo roll
The owner of an amusement arcade in Bridlington has replaced soft toys with toilet rolls in one of his grabber machines.
Eddy Chapman came up with the idea after seeing people stocking up on the bathroom staple because of coronavirus concerns. Mr Chapman said one couple had travelled more than 60 miles to play the grabber.
What's wrong with the daily paper, cut into squares. If the grandchildren are safe with scissors, get them busy ;-)
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Of course we do ;D .
Not much sign of virus worries in Paris-Nice race, lots of hi-5s, hugging, hand shaking ;D
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Worrying for you Teresa. Waiting to see the younger generation wiping their backsides with their mobile phones as they don't buy newspapers... ???
Newsprint on backside CLKD??
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Of course we do ;D .
Not much sign of virus worries in Paris-Nice race, lots of hi-5s, hugging, hand shaking ;D
We are being told in Australia, not to shake hands and regular hand washing. My nephew who works in the emergency department in Hobart, Tasmania was told that 80% of the population will be affected. Most will only experience cold symptoms, but some people will go straight to pneumonia.
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Apparently the Health Minister has tested positive, wonder where she's been.
If Schools close what happens to workers, industry, transport, Nurses, Solicitors, Undertakers ............
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She was at a meeting at Downing Street on Thursday. That could be interesting.
Good point about school closures. What happens to health workers if they can't get childcare?
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Creche at work?
Looked at the BBC earlier: a film from the main supplier of UK loo rolls worth a viewing: 'Don't panic, be community-minded', says loo roll boss
Many people in the UK have been stockpiling toilet paper in anticipation of isolation measures.
The rolls weigh 2.5 tonnes. Won't run off with those!
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A creche in Hospitals during a virus pandemic :(
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Why not? How else are workers to continue providing support in an already understaffed industry? If the UK Government does what they have done in Italy ............ hospitals may well grind to a halt.
Nineteen crew members and two passengers on the Grand Princess tested positive for Covid-19 and the vessel was kept off the coast for five days.
The ship finally docked yesterday and the FCO said 135 British passengers left on a flight from San Francisco last night.
Once they arrive home they are still expected to self-isolate for 14 days. ............ why not stick them into a Hotel altogether as others have been isolated? :-\.
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Well apart from the obvious risks, what's the point of closing schools if you are going to put children together in a creche. :o
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It's still 3 weeks until my DC's school break for Easter. Too little, too late by that time if we follow the trends seen in other countries.
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Apparently 111 have not been giving out the correct information, and people have been allowed to go straight home ,and no checks at airports either
None here at the moment, but no hand sanitizer anywhere
I always have some in and luckily bought a large one about 3 weeks ago, which i have been decanting into small contaners for my daughter, [and friend who is going to Tenerife next week]
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The event I was due to go to at the British Library on Saturday has been postponed until July. Really disappointed as the new date clashes with a wedding we are going to in Northumberland.
My husband had an appointment with our GP on Thursday. The surgery called this morning to rearrange with another doctor. Apparently our GP has had to cancel all her appointments. No reason given.
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Maybe the school has closed so she had to do child care? Didn't your husband ask?
What's the point of closing schools ....... by now the kids will have passed it on ::)
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Of course he didn't ask. ::). He is a man.
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:lol:
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My reply would be 'Coronavirus then' 'cos by not knowing it begins rumours. It's a grey area of patient confidentiality though.
It's OK 'them' suggesting closing schools but if parents have to stay at home to do child care, who will be manning the lighthouse ::)
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Italy has extra problems though. They do not have a 'National' health service so to begin with there was no coordination. Also at the beginning they were only testing people who had contact with the infection. This meant they missed many who presented with symptoms but no contact history. Lots of people were just turned away.
There was a senior Italian doctor on TV the other night, who used to work for they NHS. He said we were doing fine with our procedures.
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What happens if grandparents aren't allowed to travel or get sick themselves? This country is so reliant on others caring for children >:( who should be looked after by their parents. It does mean that grand parents see more of the children whereas mine ........ I was never allowed to stay over with either set which led me to huge anxiety about being away as I grew older :-\
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Italy has had 2300 new cases today and 196 deaths, that's scary!
I'm fortunate in that i work from home, but all of my DC's close friends have parents that work, and the majority of them are not local to the area, so have no family around to help.
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They aren't looking for a spare grandchild are they? I'll volunteer :)
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They aren't looking for a spare grandchild are they? I'll volunteer :)
Bless you sheila! that made me laugh
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The reason the whole animal cruelty issue is being raised is because this virus started in animals in the wet markets of Wuhan. These markets ate notorious for selling all manner of animals and in terrible conditions.
Totally agree yellow flower. It is absolutely disgusting how animals are treated in China and very sad. They should be ashamed. I really hope that this may now start to make some changes to how humans treat other animals. X
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China had been alerted to this virus way back in November .......... the diseases that have sprung from China apparently come from the same sources. Open, live animal markets .......... once might be a mistake, the 2nd should have been a learning curve but the 3rd!
But the rest of the World doesn't challenge China or India due to the increased reliance on products from Asia. As a throw-away society Europe buys from Japan, Taiwan or China ........ their use of cheap labour means that most Companies are able to undercut those in Europe and the UK. Apparently home industries are booming..
Agreed! :)
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Now a Pandemic. So now I suspect that more Laws can be brought into Force.
How can the Health Minister become infected ::) and now a care worker in Northampton ......... that's just the place 1 doesn't want any infection!!
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Apparently imports from China have dropped :-\
Good!
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Why? Maybe that's another topic Jari?
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[quote
Apparently milk is short ::)
[/quote]
I am not doing the quote thing very well, but you can always buy oat milk CLKD !
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Sunak pumps millions into ........... and there's me thinking that I've never heard of the company : oh do keep up CLKD ;D I imagined it as an oil company ::)
Oat milk is made of what though? Milk comes from sheep, goats, mares, cows ........ not from plants ;-)
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Why? Maybe that's another topic Jari?
You said it! 😂
But i think it is good because it is a chance to stop buying so much stuff from China and make people stop and think.
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Jari - we will always buy from China. :-\. That's where most of those HUGE container ships arrive from. Where will you get your white goods from :-\ ....... another thread?
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OK, so my brother is a doctor and works in a public hospital in Australia. I asked him about the virus and whether the hysteria is warranted. This was his reply: "No one is sure. It is definitely more contagious than SARS, but not as deadly. It is more deadly than influenza but not as contagious. I won't be travelling overseas in the near future in case of quarantine". He sent this via text to me yesterday.
Let us not forget that SARS, Avian flu and now the coronavirus all started in the wet markets in asian countries. You would think they would have learned by now that these places are breeding grounds. China shut down the wet market in Wuhan when it was too late. Let's hope that this time, they have learned something and this terrible trade in live wild animals stops!
Absolutely agree!!
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Hopefully one positive outcome will be that the population at large will be more attentive to personal hygiene. That would help reduce colds and flu in general.
Knowing human nature though I suspect the effect will be short lived. ::)
True! I do hope it will make people think.
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Tom Hanks and his wife has it :o
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US stops flights from Europe...
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Denmark on lock down and in the U.K. we go shopping mad for toilet rolls! 🤣
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Trump would have been better off making sure all US citizens have access to free testing. The test there costs over a thousand dollars and many people have no health insurance.
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US stops flights from Europe...
The U.K. Is not included in this.
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Don't think we're in a position to criticise Trump while we're sitting back letting it spread until it's out of control in the UK.
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Denmark on lock down and in the U.K. we go shopping mad for toilet rolls! 🤣
But that's our mantra jari ::)
"keep clam and carry on, just as long as you have a clean arse"
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From the Guardian: 'A leading public health expert has launched a devastating critique of the government's handling of the coronavirus outbreak in the UK, saying it is too little too late, lacks transparency and fails to mobilise the public.
Prof John Ashton, a former regional director of public health for north-west England, lambasted a lack of preparation and openness from the government and contrasted Britain's response to that of Hong Kong.
?Right at the beginning of February, they [Hong Kong] adopted a total approach to this, which is what we should have done five weeks ago ourselves.'
I totally agree.
And testing stopped some days ago. Only those requiring medical intervention are tested now. In other words, those figures for infection, they don't mean diddly squat.
I have moved from concerned to exasperated.
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Can anybody tell me why people are stockpiling toilet paper? The Corona Virus doesn't cause diarrhoea does it?
Our local medical practice has had a large dispenser of hand sanitiser ripped off the wall and stolen.
I heard someone on the radio saying she works days in a care home. There was a large stock of toilet rolls when she left the other day but by the next morning when she went in they had all gone so the night staff must have stolen them.
it seems some people will stop at nothing!
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I fully agree with John Ashton, I have been exasperated right from the start. I can't understand what they won't act before it's too late.
I can't understand the toilet paper either. Perhaps if it caused diarrhoea but it doesn't. I can understand enough supplies for a couple of weeks but that wouldn't cause shortages.
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That's an insult to sheep, they aren't that stupid!
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Announcement from Cobra imminent.
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They are no longer going to keep testing people for it and if you think you have it (high fever, continuous cough)self isolate for 7 days, no international school trips, advising people over 70 with existing health conditions not to go on cruises are the ones I heard x
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They are no longer going to keep testing people for it and if you think you have it (high fever, continuous cough)self isolate for 7 days, no international school trips, advising people over 70 with existing health conditions not to go on cruises are the ones I heard x
A friend of mine has just had to cancel 2 trips. 1 was a school trip to Switzerland (as supervising teacher) but two of the Swiss staff/students have Corona so the school has cancelled the visit. The 2nd is her own family trip to Italy at Easter.
Now insurance companies are refusing to cover Corona in any new policies sold. LV has decided not to sell any at all for the time being.
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I have moved from concerned to exasperated.
Me too!
The stats speak for themselves
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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stats can prove anything ;-)
Also there will always be those that will criticise the Government of the Day! so try not to take much notice of 'those'. Do what is advised at local level, that is good hand hygiene, keep well away from people - hard if 1 travels by Tube/train every day >:(; laundry towels, sheets etc. on a boil wash more often; however at local level I have heard nowt from my Surgery ::). Maybe when I go in for my prescription tomorrow I will get an update.
Hand sanitisers have often been stolen which is why many Hospitals stopped providing them. We were encouraged to carry our own as early as 2009 when Dad had treatment. Haven't heard from Mum's Care Home yet.
Now people are being told to self isolate for 7 days if they have a cold, continual cough or fever. I wouldn't know where our thermometer is and this probably means that already the NHS doesn't have Lab capacity in order to test every sample that appears.
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They are no longer going to keep testing people for it and if you think you have it (high fever, continuous cough)self isolate for 7 days, no international school trips, advising people over 70 with existing health conditions not to go on cruises are the ones I heard x
A friend of mine has just had to cancel 2 trips. 1 was a school trip to Switzerland (as supervising teacher) but two of the Swiss staff/students have Corona so the school has cancelled the visit. The 2nd is her own family trip to Italy at Easter.
Now insurance companies are refusing to cover Corona in any new policies sold. LV has decided not to sell any at all for the time being.
Our River Cruise company is saying they will accept amendments and cancellations up to 24 hours, before departure. Seems very fair.
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They sound like a really reasonable company Shadyglade, hopefully others will follow their example x
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Spent the day typing and sending a Coronavirus policy to send to the parents of our childminding setting. We have lots of children as me and my husband and 1 childminding together.
Basically setting out the situations where children will be excluded and if the government asks childcare settings to close. If they did that, we would still ask for payment, if we didn't we literally would have no income! This is the stance all childcare settings are taking.
Looks as if my holiday to Spain in three weeks may be cancelled, talking to one of our parents who is a local GP, as she feels it is likely, she is going to Milan when we are closed! Or maybe not.
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I think asking for payment is wrong. Do you not have insurance against closure? If holidays are cancelled then one gets money back, surely you are offering a service which is being withdrawn? I would wait and see how many parents offer or you may well put backs up and they will go elsewhere so that you may lose your client base.
Ireland have insisted on closing schools and nurseries but not on the mainland.
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Spent the day typing and sending a Coronavirus policy to send to the parents of our childminding setting. We have lots of children as me and my husband and 1 childminding together.
Basically setting out the situations where children will be excluded and if the government asks childcare settings to close. If they did that, we would still ask for payment, if we didn't we literally would have no income! This is the stance all childcare settings are taking.
Looks as if my holiday to Spain in three weeks may be cancelled, talking to one of our parents who is a local GP, as she feels it is likely, she is going to Milan when we are closed! Or maybe not.
I have just seen a complaint from a parent who has been told that her child's school is closing and that her childminder has decided independently to self isolate as a precaution and not continue her services. However she still expects the parent to pay the full rate! That doesn't sound reasonable.
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Probably not legal.
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I think it is totally reasonable. They are running a business, hopefully with firm Contracts. Self isolation is for 2 weeks, totally un-necessary if someone has not been in contact with a possible contaminant. .......... the time to discuss fees may well be after they find out if they have been infected. She probably has to sort out her accounting system B4 she is able to make other decisions.
Why not Shadyglade? How many times have parents withdrawn a child at short notice ........ this is unprecedented, there has 2 B flexibility.
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Sounds like a breach of contract to me. The service being paid for is not being supplied.
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Just heard from a friend in France that they are expecting an announcement from Macron at 8pm to say France is closing it's borders...
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Our sickness and holiday policy states that parents pay for days taken as sickness or for holiday, this is standard across the childcare sector. This situation has no precedence.
Anyone who feels it is unreasonable to charge for a forced closure has never had to think about the prospect of no income coming in at all, or how long that might last. What do I say to my employee, bank, electricity company, supermarket...........? Sorry I can't pay you because I have had to close my business down! Self employed people already do not get paid for sickness and holidays, or even claim unemployment benefit. I don't charge for my sickness or holidays. I have taken 1 day off sick in 23 years, I work the other times I am sick, even worked the next day after being up all night when each one of my parents died. Our parents have all been very supportive.
As for the childminder who self isolated, it is her business she can operate it how she wants. What she did not do is plan and make a policy and then ask all parents to agree to the new policy, as you would do with any changes to a contract. It is communication that is the key.
I am hoping we don't have to close but we have to plan for our business in case we do. If the mortgage, electricity, oil, etc is not paid, there may not be a business to come back to. I really feel for self employed people who will lose their businesses over this.
I have not got an insurance for closure, I have never needed one in 23 years, I have also heard some won't pay out as it is an act of god.
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I think the Government is helping small business so you should be able to apply Donnadoobie. Ring your financial provider to find out? or the BBC web-sites or Government up2date advice lines? This situation is the worse for a generation ........ what ever a generation might mean?
I can't remember anything like this apart from all the advertising about the AIDs epedemic.
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I have just had a teenage piano pupil and he said if local high school closes, all pupils are set up to do exam prep, homework etc on line. Apparently staff have been working flat out to upload everything which all years will need to complete Outcomes etc to meet targets for 2019/20.
Donnadoobie, the government should compensate people like you and your husband who will lose money through no fault of their own. As for "An act of God", I was in a horrendous car crash 40 years ago, had a brain injury, left with a permanent back injury and have had to spend ?1000s on dental work over the years as all my teeth were smashed. The enquiry deemed that "As act of God" and it's so unfair, but I didn't die.
CLKD, you are totally correct about pupils being taken out of school at short notice to go on holiday (at cheaper holiday times).
Just my humble opinion.
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Valued Padine Tnx.
How did a car accident be 'an act of God'? I never typed medical reports following accidents with that expression!
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If, and I think it is a big if, the government compensated us for loss if earning, I would, of course compensate our families. Most have been with us for many years
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Maybe keep a record of what happens? A paper trail is always useful.
What I would like to know is, as each area is reported as having confirmed cases, where these people have travelled to in the last 3 months. None of those I am in contact with regularly travels and I don't have to travel in close proximity nor do I have anything to do with children who are known to carry Bugs Whole sale ::)
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Sounds like a breach of contract to me. The service being paid for is not being supplied.
The parent accepts that, if her child were sick or on holiday, she would still have to pay for the care but here the carer has decided not to offer the service.
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Why is child minding different to any other business? No service no payment IMO. You wouldn't pay the supermarket if they didn't provide any food. If our cows die no one will pay us for them, it's one of the things you have accept if you run your own business. No sick pay for us either and however sick we are animals still have to be fed.
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Just heard. 27 million Americans have no health insurance. Scary.
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Talk about conflicting advice! Just been reading advice from former Health Secretary in various newspapers online. It clearly says do NOT ring your GP and do NOT ring 111. Just seen an NHS spokesperson on Sky TV saying Ring your GP and ring 111 if you need advice.
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Shows how prepared this country is for an incident then. We have been told by our Surgery to ring 111 - but that will mean self isolation. Probably.
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Was it around 50 million deaths in the last pandemic in 1918?
Better medicines nowadays hopefully?!
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Shows how prepared this country is for an incident then. We have been told by our Surgery to ring 111 - but that will mean self isolation. Probably.
The new advice is not to ring 111 unless you are really ill past the 5 day mark. Otherwise just use the website.
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I think this Bug is being treated with oxygen :-\ as it affects the lungs quite fast. Starts with a fever and a feeling of a 'cold', occasionally with muscle and bone aches.
My colds usually begin when my Left arm itches like fury. This is where my BCG injection went in at the age of 13. Then I get a dry throat/nose followed by intense nausea. Then the nose begins to run, ears itch deep down, maybe a few aches and a cough. That's normal for me. If necessary I take to my sofa under a thick blanket and drink plenty with Nurofen as required. Symptoms can last from 3 days to a couple of weeks, the last Germ left me with a hacking cough for months.
So that is assuming: AGAIN: that every one is logged in >:(
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If no Internet you would have to ring, of course.
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Good idea to up your vit c foods. Citrus fruits, veg etc or supplements.
Cook with plenty of garlic...
Get good sleep. All helps with immune system.
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Just heard. 27 million Americans have no health insurance. Scary.
And no sick pay probably. :(
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It isn't flu. Totally different in the way it operates and the way it enters our cells. It's really interesting, scientifically, how it works.
There is no point in phoning 111 in the initial stages as there is no treatment. After a few days those who are badly affected will develop pneumonia and have difficulty breathing. This is when to call 111 as it has entered the bacterial stage and antibiotic treatment can begin. Hopefully by flattening the peak there will be more beds/ventilators available. Tough decisions for the doctor's though as to who to help :(
Taz x
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People are panic buying where I am. Went to the supermarket this morning, no toilet rolls, no painkillers, no wipes and no disinfectant. (What is everyone doing with this disinfectant)
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No canned food, no uht milk,.hardly any staff and hardly any shoppers.
My niece just sent me a vid of Stratford westfields this lunchtime. Like ghost town. She said it feels eerie.
Btw I had a txt from chemist saying prescription in. I hadnt ordered anything. It was my astma inhalers. Never ever not had to ask for them in 30 years.
Keep well ladies.
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It's the way they think old people don't matter that bugs me. There's plenty they could be doing now to stop it spreading like many other countries but they even say they don't want to stop it they just to flatten the peak. Well, try being the old or sick person who will actually die from it and see if you think the same.
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To put it into perspective, around 37,000 people die of sepsis each year. That can affect anyone, of any age, at any time.
The trouble is in comfortable Western 1st World countries, people expect to be safe. It comes as a bit of a shock to discover they are not.
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There was a mother, father and teenage daughter in front of me at check out yesterday. They had two trolleys full to the brim with loo rolls, pasta, packet pasta sauces and milk. They were even loading everything on in an ultra quick way, like in a panic, whilst the father loaded bags. I have never seen anything like it! My face must have said it all, I was totally dumbfounded!
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Jari. People are stocking up for a nuclear winter. Its shocking.
A man in savers was buying the last 8or 10bars of soap on the shelf. I remonstrated with the staff they shouldn't be selling him thst many but they said its o.k as it's not antibacterial !!!
I said to him "do you think you will be safer going about your day if the rest of us can't wash our hands because you've got all the soap". !!! Idiots 🤪
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I have just been reading that some GP Practices in my area are not making face to face appointments only phone appointments. I made an appointment yesterday but that will probably be changed now.
Not a hand sanitiser to be seen in any shops in our market town this morning. When Mum's bottle runs out I will make some lotion up with anti bacterial washing up liquid and use the same bottle.
I still can't work out why people are buying massive packs of loo rolls. Aldi had plenty yesterday but people were picking up great packs with about 12 rolls in them and then chucking a few more in! I bought my usual pack of 4.
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People are panic buying where I am. Went to the supermarket this morning, no toilet rolls, no painkillers, no wipes and no disinfectant. (What is everyone doing with this disinfectant)
Wiping down their hard surfaces, door handles, doorbell pushes, keyboards, mobile phones, tv remotes etc etc I think. Never ending!
Taz x
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Hand sanitiser is one of the only things we haven't got round here along with pasta and rice, loo roll is hit and miss depending when deliveries are x
I've found having hot flushes can be a bit of a liability with people being so alert to fevers especially when your face glows a wonderful shade of red 🙄 x
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I have non allergic retinitis, which makes me sneeze and cough. Get it on and off all year round.
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Tnx Taz :: Boris made that very clear yesterday afternoon on the 'extra' programme. [which meant I missed escape to the country :cuss: ]
No shelf shortages in our village shops ;-) so am keeping that to myself .......
I think my allergic rhinitis saves me from a lot of bugs!
Teresa - I have explained where previously ::) Do keep up ;D. Gold is strong so easy to borrow against.
Tom Hanx and his wife are isolated in hospital apparently :whist: personally, haven't got a clue in our neighbourhood.
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I agree panic buying is absurd - I mean you can't keep panic buying for 3 months or more FFS! You have to start eating the stuff (or using it ::) ) at some point!
However don't underestimate the seriousness of this and the capacity of the sheer numbers of people who need hospital treatment when the pandemic is at its peak in UK to overwhelm the NHS. If you see it as media hype you must be looking at the wrong media! Read the scientific articles, the WHO reports and summaries thereof for your information - not the Sun or its like which talks about a "killer bug" I saw when I clicked on something!
Unfortunately being a virus there is no current treatment or cure for it even when it reaches the serious stage of pneumonia and needing hospitalisation. I don't think that is bacterial pneumonia that is the biggest worry Taz as I understand - although maybe that can happen too? That wouldn't be so bad because antibiotics could treat it as you say but I think it is viral pneumonia. From what I've read the complications that some people go on to experience are due to an extreme response of the immune system to the virus which can then overwhelm the body leading to multiple organ failure (due to insufficient oxygen), septic shock, heart attack and death and there is no treatment for this other than oxygen and ventilation of the lungs hence the worry that there may not be enough equipment for everyone and the statement that loved ones will die. This worries me hugely - I have several vulnerable loved ones ie close family (one elderly, 2 older but with health conditions and one young with a respiratory condition) and I am very worried indeed.
The stark facts are that in Italy, so I read, there were just not enough oxygen machines or whatever is needed for everyone so medical staff had to prioritise who had them. Underlying health conditions or not none of us want this to be our loved ones...hence needing to flatten the peak and push it towards the summer when there is less pressure from seasonal illnesses and everyone is outside more.
Don't forget everyone that this is a new virus and we have no acquired immunity, and the deaths that will occur are IN ADDITION TO those that have already occurred or will do so from seasonal flu ( from which many vulnerable people are protected through the annual flu vaccine).
God just read that back and it sounds depressing - soz folks!
Hurdity x
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"Non allergici rhinitis" :-\ ............
We went to a petrol station earlier and not 1 person was wiping down prior to using pumps or the keypad and there wasn't a member of staff on hand with gel >:(. We need to know how long this particular bugs lasts and on what it survivies.
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I'm concerned for my parents, who are well into their 90s, as well as myself. I have asthma, which is reasonably well controlled unless I get an infection. I've required hospitalisation twice in the last 5 years following minor infections, once resulting in bacterial pneumonia, which responded to antibiotics eventually. Luckily I rarely catch things, which I attribute to years of teaching young children! However, this is different, but it's no good getting worried. I shall look after myself, get on with living well and having fun! What will be will be.
Sadly, my son and family have had to cancel their trip from the USA to stay with us. Although, travel to the uk is not banned yet, the risk of having to isolate themselves over here is too great and would put their jobs in jeopardy. My son is a paramedic, so is probably at more risk at work than flying on an empty plane!
There were wipes in the library and in the opticians this morning. I couldn't find my antibacterial gel, but found it later under the car seat. Of course, none available in the shops.
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"Non allergici rhinitis" :-\ ............
We went to a petrol station earlier and not 1 person was wiping down prior to using pumps or the keypad and there wasn't a member of staff on hand with gel >:(. We need to know how long this particular bugs lasts and on what it survivies.
Yes, it's caused by over sensitive blood vessels in the nose. Set off by strong smell in particular. You won't get me in a Lush shop.
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Do any of you know anyone who's got it/is self isolating at the moment?
No :)
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Same here.
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I know ☝️
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Life has to go on. Companies will go bankrupt at this rate :-\. I would worry more about D&V from the loos at an event ;-)
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I think we need more clarity on how people have contracted it. The care worker in Northampton for example? How, where, when, from whom?
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My nephew's been advised to self isolate for the duration as he has cystic fibrosis. His employer is supportive thankfully.
How on earth do you effectively self isolate when living in the same house unless its a mansion Teresa?
I have rhinitis as well Shadyglade - I know what you mean about Lush (makes my nose tingle just thinking about it!).
They've suggested most of us are likely to contract the virus at some stage. Does anyone know if that's actually been the case in other countries?
I've stopped reading about it Hurdity. It's too miserable. What will be will be.
I don't think we will ever know because some get it but with no symptoms. One expert reckoned up to 50%. That's also why you can't really stop the spread.
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You can. They've done it in other countries.
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? how ?
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Unfortunately being a virus there is no current treatment or cure for it even when it reaches the serious stage of pneumonia and needing hospitalisation. I don't think that is bacterial pneumonia that is the biggest worry Taz as I understand - although maybe that can happen too? That wouldn't be so bad because antibiotics could treat it as you say but I think it is viral pneumonia. From what I've read the complications that some people go on to experience are due to an extreme response of the immune system to the virus which can then overwhelm the body leading to multiple organ failure (due to insufficient oxygen), septic shock, heart attack and death and there is no treatment for this other than oxygen and ventilation of the lungs hence the worry that there may not be enough equipment for everyone and the statement that loved ones will die.
Hurdity x
Sorry Hurdity - yes you are right in that it's not a bacterial pneumonia but I think it's called an inflammatory pneumonia and it seems that patients have been treated with moxifloxacin together with other antibiotics. I think I've heard the multiple organ failure called some sort of storm but I can't remember the terminology.
Taz x
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I've decided that I want the news to report only how many people are currently in hospital or have sadly died in this country, how many are at home feeling unwell inflates the figures and I'm already no longer interested.
The outbreak in Italy was concentrated in one region in the north and that's why the hospitals are struggling, other parts of Italy have the virus but not in the large numbers. In the UK the cases are spread over most of the country, my county has 3 cases but all routine hospital operations are cancelled, are any of these 3 actually in hospital ? It's not reported, are they still unwell, again not reported.
I think it's a serious problem, it's a highly contagious illness, but stopping routine hospital operations, in my opinion it is going too far.
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I think you are right TH. They are stopping routine testing and only those hospitalised will be tested now. This makes total sense to me as why have valuable medical staff testing people, when most are negative anyway.
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The figures they quote of xxxxx people who have been tested means nothing, but it's a BIG figure but so what the huge majority didn't have it.
Unfortunately the number of deaths here has risen to 21. However we lose a loved one it's devastating, I feel sorry for their family and friends.
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My daughters partners grand daughter was taken to hospital last night ,she is only 4.she couldn't breathe and was coughing, there was no one else waiting,but she was waiting for hours,and then sent home and told her mum to give her paracetamol
My Derm who i saw on Thursday said."go home and hide,we have a bumpy time coming :o"
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My son is playing his first music gig for a year tonight and we've been deliberating all day as to whether to go. It's a small gig, under 200 people, and neither of us has elderly or sick dependents. We are both still working which brings its own risks I guess so we've decided to go and follow all the guidelines including elbow-bumping :)
Taz x
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Spoke yesterday to son living in Spain, their usual market was closed down and supermarkets had no meat or fruit and veg
Just read today that beaches are being closed, and Spain could go into lock down
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I work in a medical school. As from yesterday we were all told to go home and not come back, to socially distance ourselves and self isolate if unwell. This is doctors and researchers. In this last week I've witnessed wills for 2 NHS consultants. I am, of course, following advice.
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You would have thought supposedly intelligent people like doctors would already have wills ???
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New Zealand is isolating new arrivals for 14 days, they have 6 cases. I'm not sure if it's our politicians or 'experts' who are to blame for letting it spread here, it seems they all have their heads so far up their backsides they couldn't see what was going to happen. Surely any fool can work out an infectious disease left unchecked was guaranteed to end up spreading throughout the population.
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Spot on Stella.
The panic has become more of a worry that the virus. I'm definitely not going into hiding.
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No I mean the numbers in the UK :) , as of today it's 1,140 confirmed with the virus and 21 deaths of people with other complications along with coronovirus, the news spends over 20 minutes on this, they mention all the large numbers of how many have been tested and worldwide cases, it's easy reporting.
I'm still hoping my June cruise to Italy goes ahead :great:
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GO! we have been to two small antique fairs today. One has to be sensible. We all know each other and then checked to make sure we were healthy B4 talking. Job done. It's groups of over 100 people that may well be stopped. This seems to be to keep the NHS ticking over by spreading out the incidence of cases.
Routine operations have to be stopped to allow for emergencies, for example I attended a medical situation this morning ::) [always in the wrong place etc.] and the lady needed to go to Hospital. Routine ops are often stopped but it isn't reported. Beds, linen, nursing staff etc. have to be available for excessive events. Which currently this one appears to be.
The UK Labs simply can't cope with testing 'in case' situations. They have difficulty keeping up as it is! Can you imagine all those Petrie dishes waiting in batches ............ and there has to be continual testing of a positive result to make sure that the virus has gone.
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I still believe that we over-vaccinate! They body doesn't get used to forming a barrier. Which is why I won't have the flu jab though Himself is thinking of having the one for pneumonia :-\. 'Flu is known to mutate so the World is usually 2 years behind the current Bug.
US don't want us 2 visit either ;D
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You would have thought supposedly intelligent people like doctors would already have wills ???
They're making sure they're up to date. No need for sarcasm.
I remain absolutely baffled by people's responses. It's as if on the one hand we have scientific evidence, and on the other ... well, I really don't know.
Those countries that faced down SARS, so we didn't have to, did it right. They knew. China acted a bit late, but then they got ahead of the curve. Taiwan, South Korea. Fantastic job. There was a reason Japan left that ship sitting in port for so long. It always was about containment and avoiding a pandemic. OK, so that option is gone now. Thank you, Italy.
What next? Flatten the curve, infection control. Do you know how many intensive care beds we'd need, nationally, if we went the same way as Lombardy? Let's say 60% of the population are infected (about 40 million people) and 20% need hospital care (about 8 million people), but 5% need ICU care (about 2 million people). Two million ICU beds. This is insane. Even more worryingly, as the Lancet reported yesterday, the Italians have found that it's 9-11% that need ICU, so let's say 10%, and that's 4 million ICU beds. On top of this, it doesn't seem to be the case that people have it, get better, and they're fine. For some folks, it's creating life-long health complications.
Anyway, obviously, no one wants to hear this. No one has wanted to hear this from the start. If it's as bad as the current projections say it's going to be (with the public continuing to behave as if it's magically disappear and it shouldn't really interfere with their lives), we won't have an economy, supply lines or an NHS left in a year. It's fine. We can rebuild. Hell, 72 million people died in the Second World War and 20 years later there was the 'Swinging Sixties'. But I'd still rather avoid that. And, of course, the scientists and doctors could be wrong. It might go away in the Spring / Summer. This is true. All these precautions could be an overreaction, or they could be a contribution, we might never know. I'd still prefer to try though and be proved wrong, instead of not bother and be proved right.
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I'm not sarcastic just straight to the point.
None of this is in any of our control and never was. That's how the world works.
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For some folks, it's creating life-long health complications.
Fortunately, yet, we don't know because this novel virus hasn't been around long enough. As a novel virus hopefully there will be detailed records kept. What we won't find out is those that carry it, if they don't have symptoms or feel like a 'cold' which is nothing to worry about, they won't report nor get tested.
Containment is important but the UK can't come to a halt. We need to be encouraged to shop sensibly and this has to be the task of the Managers of the stores: how was panic buying not anticipated!?! Has no one read 'lord of the flies' ::).
Food will rot particularly in those kitchens that have over-purchased in panic, bins won't be collected, Nurses won't be allowed to work .......... it's about controlling those who do go to essential jobs and advise the rest to take precautions. Controlling in a way that everyone is checked on their health twice a day so that anyone feeling unwell can be monitored.
This is novel. So the UK hasn't had to face such an upheaval - the 'first in a generation' says Boris but no one can explain what a 'generation' actually might be ::). Protect your own household, keep an eye on elderly neighbours, shop sensibly: now that everyone has stuff there shouldn't be any need for much shopping at all! If the UK is shut down what then? A 1st world country should not allow fresh food to go to waste on the shelves ...........
Shopping is in our control. So is keeping healthy as much as possible. D&V isn't in our control but it closes hospitals across the World every year! Some people will die from D&V or associated infections.
We have never had enough Intesnive Care beds; Nurses, skilled Doctors but the Governments have always promised to inject more money etc.. Now they are finding out that they were not in time to take on a Bug of such proportions!
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I think the U.K. will also be in a 14 day lockdown in the coming days.
I am going to make sure I have a few supplies for 14 days, not toilet rolls for years, but some supplies.
It is the only way to keep this virus at bay...
Partial lockdown in Spain and France following and Norway.. Latvia...
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Well said ElkWarning. Anyone who isn't concerned either doesn't have or doesn't care about their elderly relatives. DDs teacher told her they don't need to worry, adolescents will be OK. That's true but she has one grandparent left and she will die if she gets it. There are people on this site unlikely to survive it.
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The situation is scary and seems new Zealand has got a lot right. All this herd immunity doesn't feel right. And the panic buying is outrageously selfish. I can't find toilet rolls anywhere. Heard about people loading their cars with packs of them and supermarket letting them. What happens if similar occurs with food.
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Teresa, yes my street is very quiet too. I believe the virus could cause pneumonia which damages the lungs. It is wise to stay at home!
Panic buying doesn't help.
Good to have some tins and supplies for a couple of weeks, so you do not have to go out.. x
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A big problem in the UK is lack of beds. So some people may not survive when they may have done, had it not been a pandemic. I haven't heard of any countries holding bodies in fridges yet ..........
Why 14 days though, this Bug is a rolling virus surely? Some say that schools could be closed for weeks++.
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I noticed from mid-week less vehicles and along the A14 it was quite quiet yesterday ......... plenty of European lorries still and lots of Jack Richards and Eddie Stobart
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my aunt in scotland tells me that her local Curry's has sold out of freezers! people have bought them all to store stuff in their garages and outhouses.
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my aunt in scotland tells me that her local Curry's has sold out of freezers! people have bought them all to store stuff in their garages and outhouses.
I'd have nowhere to put one.
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Looks like we might need to stockpile food after all, as new rules coming in for 0ver 70s, not to go out for 4 months, i AM very worried now
What about Hospital appointments, Drs etc,
Wasn't overly worried before but the thought ofbeing forced to stay in does worry me,it shows how serious it really is
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This has come from a Roberts Peston tweet. How the the hell does he know. Totally unethical whether it's true or not. This sort of information should come from government and no where else.
A lot of hostility on his tweeter fed now and many pointing out that people in their seventies still work anyway. Totally unenforceable, unless this is a police state, or perhaps it is.
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Me neither..my kitchen is 8ftx5ft😁
Mine is a bit bigger (about 8 by 11) but not big enough and no garage.
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Nothing but sh*t has come from the government and their scientific advisors whose strategy is opposite to just about every other country. The UK strategy to allow uncontrolled spread has now been criticised by the WHO and 200 UK scientists.
The advice for the over 70s to self isolate is for their own protection. Not possible for many of them who still need appointments and possibly carers. It would have have been far better for everyone if they'd thought about them before they decided it would be a good idea to let it spread.
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We already have a 14 cub foot chest freezer; a larder fridge and an upright fridge freezer. We could put two more in to our utility room but would have to put the laundry and dishwasher machines outside. Don't think that will happen.
Apparently this virus can live on hard surfaces 5-8 days. Soap and hot water or washing detergent is the best way to combat it, using one-use gloves to apply over and under surfaces that may have become contaminated. Alcohol wipes aren't as thorough and some have false claims. Metholated spirit might well be of use. [My friend works for the NHS and this is advice from Public Health England].
The Government of the day should hand over a nightly bulletin spot to someone with medical involvement - not ordinary run of the mill folk who happen to be in a positions of 'advice'. "experts" PAH! you know how I feel about that word :bang: as a novel virus no one will be 'expert' for years++
It becomes more obvious every day that the UK Government had no Plans for this type of incident. Otherwise there would not be the need for continual tea and biscuits, dressed up as COBRA meetings. One meeting would have put Plans into Action.
Morning Girls. Got through another night ;)
I suppose that supermarkets will be delivering by rotation to those ordered to remain inside for 4 :o months. I suppose that the Government needs to read the Riot Act or something and I see that they are going to impose new Laws ......... yeah right.
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I think it makes absolute sense to isolate the over 70's. This will keep the death rate down. They are the most vulnerable after all. It will be difficult for some, but neighbours, family etc will need to rally round etc.. x
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Who is going to enforce it. Will people have to prove they are young enough to be out and about. There is already lot of people on Twitter saying they won't do it anyway.
Also what about all those with no contacts. There is going to be a lot found dead it their homes.
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I do not know. I imagine most will act responsibly though?
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I've seen on the BBC news website a lady has made a postcard for people to post through neighbours letterboxes if they are elderly/vulnerable and self isolating, especially those who have noone, great idea. x
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We have 3 families getting together in our village to shop for those housebound etc.. Another idea is to start a food bank system in the surgery or Church to distribute in the village.
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I've seen on the BBC news website a lady has made a postcard for people to post through neighbours letterboxes if they are elderly/vulnerable and self isolating, especially those who have noone, great idea. x
Saw that too. That is a great idea! Really good to see people coming together. X
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70 is a number. It is totally irrelevant to how healthy/not a person might be! Ageism is illegal in the UK >:( and I wake up some mornings looking 90. So who is going to challenge me if I go shopping?
It is up to people to be sensible and GPs to advice those who may be at risk .
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I think it's incredibly arrogant to enforce self-isolation on a specific age group. Many elderly people wont' survive it - my own mother will be suicidal within days if she can't go out. And as some of my elderly friends have pointed out, every day is a bonus for them & if Coronavirus doesn't get them, then something else will. Forcing the over-70s to stay indoors for 4 months might reduce the number of them who die from the virus, but has anyone considered the death rate caused by isolation?
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'Arrogant' - a very good word Dorothy! :medal:
This idea shows how far removed from public daily living the Government actually are. Who will feed these over 70s? What if they require dental and health appts.? What about those with tooth ache :o :-X or a sudden attack of gout.
How many coach drivers are over 70? What age group drives 'tesco' food delivery vans etc.? I feel an uprising!
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I think they only suggested the elderly self isolate because they had to say something when asked about the death rate amongst the elderly that their current policy of letting it spread is going to cause. Of course it shouldn't be the elderly that can't go out but staying in will be the only way to protect themselves. It's only a matter of time before everyone else is locked down too. Stopping the spread now will cause less pain in the long run, both economically and in the number of deaths.
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I have just been reading an article by Nardine Doris about her and her mothers experience of the virus. Her mother, who is in poor health and 84, had it very mildly. Fit 62 year old Nardine was pretty poorly.
Go figure, as the Americans say.
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One cannot enforce isolation in a modern world. The UK Government needs to think this through B4 making such gut reaction suggestions. Agree stellajane - many child care is taken over by the over 65s ......... willingly but what happens now? What about those over 70 who don't have friends or don't mix but will continue long distance walking etc..
Italy is in lock down but people are being allowed out for essentials. The country is trying to prevent traveling to see if that helps stop the spread, many live in apartments in the Cities so are in close contact with neighbours ::). Many fled south.
One has to maintain one's garden; care for one's livestock - how many farmers are over 69? It then becomes an animal welfare issue. If I had chickens at the bottom of my garden I would have to go out 3 times a day at the very least. My garden needs caring for, it will be a Brave Person who separates me from what keeps my mental health, well healthy. Goldfish will need feeding daily in the warmer months, birds need feeding, crops need picking. I need VitD ::). I will have to shop for fish and bird food at the garden centre.
How many over 70s never need hospital treatment? Are they going to insist that no drunks attend A&E as they will take up chronic bed space/medical time? Every Winter/Spring we are told that the NHS is over stretched. Have we seen any tactics to ease that situation?
What will happen in care homes? Many R over 65 and have health issues - where as Mum is 93 and healthy. Is she supposed to remain in her room ........
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Yep, I think this jigsaw has a lot of pieces missing.
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:thankyou:
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Call me a cynic but I think it's because MPs want a holiday ;D - how many are over 69 ........... ;)
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They are talking about giving the police power to arrest people who break isolation rules - so you could potentially have to carry proof of age and get arrested if you can't prove you're under 70.
This will, quite literally, kill my mother. She has heart trouble and some mental health issues and gets incredibly distressed if she has to stay in her flat for even one day. I'd rather she took her chance with the virus, but it looks as if we won't be given that option.
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I think, if you have a garden, you can still mow lawns do gardening etc as long as stay away from neighbours/fences etc.
If not this, then what else can be done? Do you think they should carry on as if nothing is happening?
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Yep. Taking away Civil Liberties springs to mind!
Hand washing. Essential. Isolate if feeling poorly. Essential.
Stop all hospital visiting. Kick out non-essential operations/A&E visitors.
I don't have any proof of age. No driving licence to hand, no Passport; Marriage Cert. somewhere, probably a Birth Cert. Somewhere ......... this is beyond thinking through. 70 is a number. There are many people across all age groups that will be vulnerable because their health is compromised. Statistics can prove exactly what statisticians are paid to prove. The Government are in Panic Mode :o because the general public expect them to 'do something'.
So the Police have nothing better to do then? Will we all get a X against our end of year report? My relatives went to War to give people across the UK Choice.
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If the Government really does follow this crap idea through: many stock markets will cease, animal auctions are run by a wide age group; how will crops be transported to market/factories? Have they looked at the age group of the farming community? So the UK will soon be short of food! Flights are being stopped across the World, does this include essentials? What does 'essential' actually mean to the 1st World?
I think too that the Government forgets that in rural areas there is a wide age group that interact daily. In Cities the spread may well be slowed by isolating the older age groups but out here >:( ........ pitch fork to the ready!!!
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I am very lucky that i have a large garden so that will keep me occupied, but i have 3 cats who are all under the vet at the moment for dentals,and will need to go there
Also a couple of hospital appointments, but nothing life threatenong
I am in general good health,[up to now] on no medication, and will go shopping if i need to, but next week will get a few more supplies in and plenty of cat food
I don't go out much socially so that wont worry me,
It is more of appointments and vet visits ,that will
Spain on lockdown now and no one allowed on beaches or wandering about, armed police on the streets
My niece couldn't even get any soup in Asda,sold out[in England]
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I have had another thought. What is going to happen about all their doctors appointments. Home visits :o
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Seems Austrians house bound too. So most other European countries are on lockdown and do you think then that the U.K. should do the opposite?
Govt under great pressure because many people are furious that they have not actioned lockdown already.
I think it is a sensible move. You have to select an age somewhere, most at risk.. agreed many younger people would be at risk too, but they need to therefore self isolate if they have underlying health issues. It is the only way to stop the spread... imo
Family, friends, neighbours, deliveries all available and at hand to help with things..
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I think it's incredibly arrogant to enforce self-isolation on a specific age group. Many elderly people wont' survive it - my own mother will be suicidal within days if she can't go out. And as some of my elderly friends have pointed out, every day is a bonus for them & if Coronavirus doesn't get them, then something else will. Forcing the over-70s to stay indoors for 4 months might reduce the number of them who die from the virus, but has anyone considered the death rate caused by isolation?
Look up Professor Gilbert Deray on Facebook or in general....really excellent piece of writing about this very fact plus a general really positive explanation and aghast at how it's all being dealt with.
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Other countries seem to be coping ok.
I do not see how we can otherwise stop it spreading. If elderly/weak get it, they have a high chance of dying.
14 more have died in U.K. today. The elderly and ill have low immune systems, so, they are getting it...
It is not straight away, but they have said in the next few weeks and possibly up to 4 months.
If I was elderly, I would be staying home already..
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For those people who are comparing the lockdown in this country with what has happened in other countries - other countries have a lockdown on EVERYONE for around a month. This is targeting one specific group of people for FOUR months.
I wonder if we would have the 'oh well, it will be hard but it's for the good of the nation' attitude if the government announced that a four-month self-isolation was going to be imposed on all women...or all gays...or all ethnic minorities.
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I think it's mad asking people over 70 to self isolate for 4 months. there are 2 careworkers at Mum's home who are over 70 and they are as fit as fleas.
Most older people who are very poorly or disabled don't come out anyway.
I would go mad inside for 4 months. Thank God I'm not 70.
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Many vets are offering video linked consultations. However, those that are isolated may have elderly pets that need treatment. Some have joined up with local taxi firms who will collect/return pets if necessary. That's OK for those that have modern technology.
Already supermarket deliveries in rural areas are 8-10 days after ordering. :-\. OK for those in town who can ask for shops to deliver and leave outside the door. Our local shop already deliveries where necessary and I think that service will increase as required.
I agree Dorothy. We again aren't being given enough 'what if' information. It is reported as a blanket over 70 isolation but as stated: there are many over 69 that provide a valued service across the UK. Time will tell if isolation will stop the spread. My friend came back from Thailand recently: he wasn't given a health check either side of the journey. Nor advised to self isolate. He is in good health and self employed. He will carry on working. He wasn't in contact with any sufferers as he was in a remote area.
Why 4 months :-\ when we are told that the incubation period is from 2 weeks to 28 days - depending on who is reporting. One could isolate for 4 months then stumble under a lorry the day one is let out!
I can see many people being 69 for years ::). Also other countries are not coping, there is a huge death toll in Italy and we will never know the truth from China. It seems to be forgotten that they had it as long ago as October and beat the Dr who tried to alert the World :'(
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China has used really draconian methods to keep people at home. We forget what a terrible time the people have there. They may, or may not have got the virus under control, but at what cost.
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For those people who are comparing the lockdown in this country with what has happened in other countries - other countries have a lockdown on EVERYONE for around a month. This is targeting one specific group of people for FOUR months.
I wonder if we would have the 'oh well, it will be hard but it's for the good of the nation' attitude if the government announced that a four-month self-isolation was going to be imposed on all women...or all gays...or all ethnic minorities.
I do not think they are just picking on a group of people. They are the most vulnerable age group and the most likely to get it and they have said it may be up to 4 months.
What would you suggest? Tell them not to worry and just go about their daily business even though that will be putting them at high risk? Really?
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Be sensible, wash your hands and don't go to crowded places, but asking people not to go out again until mid July is a step too far in my opinion. My mother is 82 with asthma, I don't want her to become unwell but asking her not to see or speak face to face with anyone for that long is cruel.
If you want to stay in, ok but I hope the government don't force people to do it, my mum could cope for a couple of weeks but months ...... :'( I've spoken to her today and she's upset at the length of time being mentioned.
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Still available to book as they are only suspended for 30 days but I'm not optimistic I'll be sailing into the sunset in June with a pi?a colada in my hand ;D
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.... and hand gel.
I offered my half bottle to a group earlier but no one took up my offer ;D
All groups of people are vulnerable. This isn't 'flu as initially thought but a different type of virus which attacks the lungs. Because the World has so few critical care beds people will die. I wonder which research the Government have decided to use in order to justify the over 70 age group against those who will have carers visiting several times a day. When Dad was ill at home he never saw the same carer twice in the 3 weeks that he was paying for home care!
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And a white protective suit on ;D ;D
If necessary ;D
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Does the white suit show a panty line ..........
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For those people who are comparing the lockdown in this country with what has happened in other countries - other countries have a lockdown on EVERYONE for around a month. This is targeting one specific group of people for FOUR months.
I wonder if we would have the 'oh well, it will be hard but it's for the good of the nation' attitude if the government announced that a four-month self-isolation was going to be imposed on all women...or all gays...or all ethnic minorities.
I do not think they are just picking on a group of people. They are the most vulnerable age group and the most likely to get it and they have said it may be up to 4 months.
What would you suggest? Tell them not to worry and just go about their daily business even though that will be putting them at high risk? Really?
No, I never said that. I would suggest giving people the facts, encouraging them to limit social contact, and allowing them to make their own decisions, like the adults they are. Scotland has said that they will not be expecting people to stay home all the time, just to keep a distance when they are out and not frequent crowded spaces. After four months in isolation, many older people will have lost the ability to rejoin normal life, while others will have died from stress or suicide.
Also, not everyone will have much of a life to rejoin after four months. I know someone who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He is over 70 and has been given a few months to live. He is wanting to make the most of those last few months, but if the 4-month isolation period goes ahead, he'll likely be too poorly to do anything by the time he's allowed out again.
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So, you think we should just trust everyone to go about their days and make sure that they do not pass the virus on to anyone?
I do totally get it, that it is not easy for people to self isolate, but there are things to do, rearrange cupboards, have sort outs, do the garden, do some cooking, chat to friends on the phone, watch tv, chat to neighbours on the phone..see their carers ( if they have them)
Etc etc..
the over 70's I have spoken to and seen on the news, seem positive and happy to do what it takes to see this virus out..
I would not be underestimating this deadly virus.
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Has anyone suggested they will be forced to self isolate rather than encouraged to? As far as virus spread goes there's absolutely no point in it when everyone else still spreading it. I thought they would be asked to for their own well being. It makes that everyone avoids crowded places if they can. The only place I'm going for the moment is food shopping.
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Has anyone suggested they will be forced to self isolate rather than encouraged to? As far as virus spread goes there's absolutely no point in it when everyone else still spreading it. I thought they would be asked to for their own well being. It makes that everyone avoids crowded places if they can. The only place I'm going for the moment is food shopping.
Sheila - yes, people over 70 are being asked rather than told.
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Has anyone suggested they will be forced to self isolate rather than encouraged to? As far as virus spread goes there's absolutely no point in it when everyone else still spreading it. I thought they would be asked to for their own well being. It makes that everyone avoids crowded places if they can. The only place I'm going for the moment is food shopping.
My impression was that it will not be an option but obligatory. My feeling is that a lockdown for everyone for a shorter period would be better than for older people for 4 months. I couldn't stay in isolation for 4 months.
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https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
This is an interesting but long read...
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Some companies are taking a virus break on mortgage commitments.
I understand that the media have to sell newsprint but at this time there should be an embargo on any printing anything not based on facts. Some reports suggest that over 70s will HAVE to remain at home. End of. That they should ask others to do shopping etc., but not everyone has anyone to ask.
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https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
This is an interesting but long read...
Perhaps we should send this to 10, Downing Street. They don't seem to have worked it out yet.
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On the news now they are saying up to 80% of us could be infected within the next year.
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Downing Street are to give daily televised updates from Monday.
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One cannot enforce isolation in a modern world.
The government can actually. They will put police and army on the streets. If there is a curfew you will be fined for breaking it and if you subsequently break the curfew you will face prison.
Having drastically reduced the numbers of police officers and the military, they have a job enforcing that easily.
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It's all a matter of percentages. If just a few people ignore it they could be dealt with. However, if there is a large number who carry on as normal where would be nothing to be done.
My feeling is that it would start well but petter out, as people get fed up with it.
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If anyone watches the BBC news local to their area (eg Look East, Midlands Today etc) they seem to be giving details of Coronavirus deaths. I've been watching and so far its always been people in their 80s "who had underlying health problems". It all seems pretty weird to me. Where have all these old people with health problems been to catch the virus. Were they all off cruising at time of infection of what?
From door knobs, hand rails, public transport, people next to them in queues, trolley handle bars... etc etc.
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I haven't read all of the latest posts on this thread in detail but just to comment on the 4 month self-isolation issue for over 70s and those with underlying health conditions that make them more vulnerable.
Obviously the first aim of this is to help prevent these people from getting the illness (or rather reduce the incidence) because it is these people who are more likely to die, but more to the point (and I think this is partly driving the Govt's idea), these are the people who are more likely to develop complications and therefore need intensive care, ventilators etc and who may well die anyway, thus depriving younger people of this care who would be more likely to survive. This is in the worst case scenario if the pandemic peaks to the extent that it overwhelms NHS (re equipment and resouyrces) as it did (is doing?) in Italy and to prevent those awful choices having to be made in terms of who gets the care and who doesn't.
The very fact that the Govt has announced that it WILL be bringing in these recommendations (and that is what it will be surely, not an edict?) at some unspecified point, will itself have an immediate effect on slowing down the infection rate because many over 70's and those who are vulnerable will already be drastically reducing social contact etc even before being asked to do so.
Of course no-one will be confined to their house (except if they get the virus) and obviously can go into their gardens if they have them, go for walks etc but presumably have to ask others to do their shopping? Also not sure how it works when you have an over and an under 70 eg my husband is mid 70s but I am mid 60s. Am I to do the same so I don't risk spreading to him ie will it actually apply to households rather than individuals?
Don't get me started on the lack of testing though; how on earth can we model the spread of the disease and its epidemiology and continue to trace and isolate contacts if we are not testing people apart from the seriously ill in hospital? I think the extreme social-distancing for over 70s etc is being brought in instead of that?
Hurdity x
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My daughter is a nurse and she has patients with Corona on her ward. All the staff are wearing masks. Such a worry.
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It's scaremongering in order to make the public aware that this is a dangerous, unknown virus which can kill.
80% will alert people to sit up. Of course, not everyone will die ....... nor will everyone within that 80% get the virus. Possibilities then.
Wiping surfaces is important anyway. HOT SOAPY WATER. JAY-cloths which can be burned or put into a hot wash after use. Keep a load of used cloths in a bin with a lid and put on overnight? They dry quickly enough. A good quality washing powder is recommended by local health workers. Wiping car handles, steering wheels, the pumps at petrol stations, toilet doors/flush push handles; I sat in a garage last week and not 1 person wiped the key pads nor used gloves B4 paying for fuel ::)
I think that those over 70 who are active: i.e. Men Sheds, visiting their elderly relatives, i.e. parents : should be allowed out - driving to and from those activities and not dropping off in the store will be 1 way of keeping up morale as well as making sure that parents are OK.
The NHS has waiting lists for many kinds of results. So this added increase of essential postiive/negative testing in order to chart the spread has been put on hold due to lack of Lab. facilities for a pandemic. I know some patients who have had to wait 3 weeks for a result from breast surgery for example, when my Mum had her lumps removed they were sliced there and then in a specific room; result went to the Surgeon whilst Mum remained under GP and the decision for closure or mastectomy was made. Due to lack of funds, that idea went out the window! Add to that staff cuts :-\
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The local drs are now doing phone call appointments only now and repeat prescriptions are put in a box outside x
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Same here too CG.
We had emails last week. x
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The government interview I heard was talking about the police having the power to arrest those who break isolation, so no, the elderly won't be 'asked' to self isolate, they will be made to do it.
If we are going to have a lockdown, it should be done as it is in other countries, where EVERYONE is on lockdown for a shorter period, not forcing the most vulnerable in our society to suffer isolation while the rest of us carry on with our lives.
It's also ridiculous to talk about isolating the vulnerable and elderly when many of them are sharing houses with younger, fitter people. The advice is that the vulnerable person stays at least 6 feet away from other household members at all times - really?!! Do they seriously think that e.g. an elderly lady is going to share a house with her children & grandchildren for four months without having any physical contact with them? And a lot of houses are just too small to keep that kind of distance.
So we will have elderly & vulnerable people stuck at home (increasing their stress levels and therefore lowering their immune system - it is proven that stress makes you more vulnerable to catching things) while younger people go in and out, potentially bringing infection back with them.
Isolation should be for everyone, not just a small group, as it has been in all the other countries.
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One cannot enforce isolation in a modern world.
The government can actually. They will put police and army on the streets. If there is a curfew you will be fined for breaking it and if you subsequently break the curfew you will face prison.
Having drastically reduced the numbers of police officers and the military, they have a job enforcing that easily.
I thought they have been and continue to increase police officers?!
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Can you really see a instance where the police will be arresting granny's for being out and about.
It won't happen.
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Can you really see a instance where the police will be arresting granny's for being out and about.
It won't happen.
No, I think that most will have the common sense to stay at home, so as to do the utmost to avoid catching it. Most will be well aware that their immune system is not what it used to be, even if they do feel fine currently. :)
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There is to much hype and miss information about this. A government spokesman, Grant Chaps I think, said today that they will be asked to stay away from crowds and social gatherings. Going for a walk no problem apparently.
We had best wait for the update later.
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Good news folks, the government has found a way to stop the increase in cases. All you do it to stop testing.... et voila! 🤐
Shame it makes no difference to the increasing death rate.
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The government interview I heard was talking about the police having the power to arrest those who break isolation, so no, the elderly won't be 'asked' to self isolate, they will be made to do it.
If we are going to have a lockdown, it should be done as it is in other countries, where EVERYONE is on lockdown for a shorter period, not forcing the most vulnerable in our society to suffer isolation while the rest of us carry on with our lives.
It's also ridiculous to talk about isolating the vulnerable and elderly when many of them are sharing houses with younger, fitter people. The advice is that the vulnerable person stays at least 6 feet away from other household members at all times - really?!! Do they seriously think that e.g. an elderly lady is going to share a house with her children & grandchildren for four months without having any physical contact with them? And a lot of houses are just too small to keep that kind of distance.
So we will have elderly & vulnerable people stuck at home (increasing their stress levels and therefore lowering their immune system - it is proven that stress makes you more vulnerable to catching things) while younger people go in and out, potentially bringing infection back with them.
Isolation should be for everyone, not just a small group, as it has been in all the other countries.
I agree that isolation/lockdown should be for everyone (initially for 2-4 weeks perhaps) not for specific categories even if they are more vulnerable. Yesterday I talked to my Dad about this and asked whether wartime food rationing and other shortages were easier to tolerate because they applied to everyone. I had to chuckle at his reply. He claims he barely noticed the food shortages because his Mum was such a good cook. He only later realised just how difficult it must have been for her.
She certainly was an excellent cook as I know from whenever she invited us to lunch years later.
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Scaremongering in order to alert people. If we had been told 'it's a virus, it will pass' the public wouldn't be as alert.
Apparently no more than 500 people at any one Event ........ so that's an idea. Not ::)
Some stores are already offering 'over 70s' shopping opportunities.
What about Vicars, Undertakers, Priests - many in their late 60s early 70s ::)
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What about Vicars, Undertakers, Priests - many in their late 60s early 70s ::)
Also judges, University lecturers, self employed some MPs and almost the entire House of Lords etc., etc.,
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One cannot enforce isolation in a modern world.
The government can actually. They will put police and army on the streets. If there is a curfew you will be fined for breaking it and if you subsequently break the curfew you will face prison.
Having drastically reduced the numbers of police officers and the military, they have a job enforcing that easily.
I thought they have been and continue to increase police officers?!
My husband retired from the police force 15 years ago. Numbers were short then, with increasing paper work. Since then, numbers of police officers and funding has been slashed, hence not seeing police officers around particularly in the rural areas and most police stations closed, apart from large towns. The recent numbers that are supposed to be recruited are just a drop in the ocean compared to numbers when DH was serving. Plus they have to trained. And wages are poor and all the benefits my husband enjoyed have been stripped.
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My parents are well into their 90s. My dad has mastered online shopping. I rang up this morning as I have had great difficulties in getting a delivery slot, so I was worried about how they were going to cope. Fortunately they got food delivered on Saturday and the neighbours are only too happy to shop for them. Thank goodness for caring neighbours. Apparently their 2 freezers are full, as mum has made sure they had enough while dad has been ill. They are carrying on as normal, which is being isolated in their own house. Sadly I can't visit as I have health issues, but I can keep in touch by phone. I feel sorry for those elderly people who are on their own, particularly if they don't have a support system like my parents. if they have to isolate completely.
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IMO. It's all just another example of the way older people are scapegoated in our society. Why have they got any more responsibility for spreading it than anyone else.? Or for the old "strain on the health service" chestnut.
Why does a person with 25 years on this earth feel they have the right to dictate to someone who has far more life experience . Or to blame them . We have a generation here who has been told the world belongs to them. It doesnt. They certainly dont know more about being in the middle of a pandemic than their elders.
I will not take advise on isolating myself from someone who is not isolating themself. And I wont blame older people for feeling the same.
Isolation is not going to mean the same thing for all of us. Someone who has love and support at home cannot be telling someone who doesnt what to do. . Even for some of us not in that age bracket isolation is not a chance to "catch up on netflix". It's a daunting prospect if you live alone and already suffer from depression.
An elderly person with few precious years left may feel afraid it could mean they sit in their flat for 4 months with no human contact and then die anyway and nobody would care. Especially since I dont see those who say "old people are being selfish" offering to ensure that doesng happen.
Its funny how those who tell the rest of us to have more of a social conscience are often the ones who have less of one in practice than those they are trying to dictate to.
X
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IMO. It's all just another example of the way older people are scapegoated in our society. Why have they got any more responsibility for spreading it than anyone else.? Or for the old "strain on the health service" chestnut.
Why does a person with 25 years on this earth feel they have the right to dictate to someone who has far more life experience . Or to blame them . We have a generation here who has been told the world belongs to them. It doesnt. They certainly dont know more about being in the middle of a pandemic than their elders.
I will not take advise on isolating myself from someone who is not isolating themself. And I wont blame older people for feeling the same.
Isolation is not going to mean the same thing for all of us. Someone who has love and support at home cannot be telling someone who doesnt what to do. . Even for some of us not in that age bracket isolation is not a chance to "catch up on netflix". It's a daunting prospect if you live alone and already suffer from depression.
An elderly person with few precious years left may feel afraid it could mean they sit in their flat for 4 months with no human contact and then die anyway and nobody would care. Especially since I dont see those who say "old people are being selfish" offering to ensure that doesng happen.
Its funny how those who tell the rest of us to have more of a social conscience are often the ones who have less of one in practice than those they are trying to dictate to.
X
I feel just the same. I went to cook lunch for my Dad yesterday. He stays at home 95% of the time anyway but is concerned about risks of infection from the carers who visit him. I don't see why the over 70's should have to stay at home to benefit the rest of us and 'allow' us to lead a relatively normal life.
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Listening to a Doctor on the radio, it seems the death figures can be misleading. As they are only testing in hospital it does not mean that all those positive necessarily died of the virus. Some will have died with the virus but not necessary of it.
The reason for not testing everyone with symptoms now is because it has past the stage when those numbers are useful. Only around 3.5% of those tested were positive anyway, so not a good use of resources.
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Not testing is also a good way of making sure we don't know how bad it really is, or how people in your local area have got it. Yes, I'm sure the death figures are misleading too. As they are only testing in hospitals now anyone who dies outside hospital will have died from pneumonia not coronavirus. How many people have to die before they act?
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Pneumonia has always been the 'old man's friend'. It was accepted until recent years. Now the public expect that NHS to solve everything but are not prepared to pay the tax bill to help fund what we require.
Those in Hospital, according to most reports, have died of viral pneumonia; most with underlying conditions. Have a look at Public Health England web-site? Many people die at this time of year due to pneumonia due to 'flu or norovirus. Which has shut several UK Hospitals but hasn't had media coverage. The NHS does not have resources to test everyone and if people flying in from abroad aren't even being tested for a raised temperature ........ :-\ ::)
Keep up with regular hand washing: hot soapy water. Wipe down trolley handles with a gel or wash immediately after shopping. Put gel or a dilute Dometos/Dettol wipe across the car steering wheel and handles, not forgetting the boot. Wipe down mobile phones, handbags, wallets, purses ....... and don't inhale if someone coughs/sneezes close by.
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I watched by Dad die from pneumonia, it is no one's friend. Few deaths are pleasant but would you want to spend days gasping for air before you die? IMO it's cruel to let anyone die that way.
To suggest it doesn't matter because because many people die from it anyway is missing the point. This is a virus that COULD be controlled, as has happened in China and South Korea but we are deliberately letting it spread. For me it's personal. My MIL will die if she gets it and it will from the inaction of this government and the so-called experts who ignore what has happened in every other country.
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A care home in North Lanarkshire has confirmed six cases of Covid-19
Residents of Highgate Care Home near Uddingston are being closely monitored and strict infection control measures have been put in place.
NHS Lanarkshire said all relatives and staff were being informed of developments.
I didn't suggest it's pleasant but Mum's generation knew that many would die of it. I think that the situation you describe is when people should be helped ........... unfortunately the UK Government were too slow to stop people coming into the country >:(
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I agree, at the very least we should have been testing at airports. And we are STILL letting them in. Probably irrelevant now though as we it's in our own population.
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A care home in North Lanarkshire has confirmed six cases of Covid-19
Residents of Highgate Care Home near Uddingston are being closely monitored and strict infection control measures have been put in place.
NHS Lanarkshire said all relatives and staff were being informed of developments.
I didn't suggest it's pleasant but Mum's generation knew that many would die of it. I think that the situation you describe is when people should be helped ........... unfortunately the UK Government were too slow to stop people coming into the country >:(
It's not the pneumonia itself that seems to be the killer aspect of the virus but the fact that the body's immune response goes into overdrive shutting down all of our organs?
Taz x
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Similar effect to sepsis then.
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I watched my mother die from pneumonia too, it's absolutely horrific.
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There is to much hype and miss information about this. A government spokesman, Grant Chaps I think, said today that they will be asked to stay away from crowds and social gatherings. Going for a walk no problem apparently.
We had best wait for the update later.
I know. That made me so angry. The government has no business making general statements about isolations or lockdowns without specifying what is involved - lack of information just leads to panic. I spent yesterday listening to friends who are either over 70 or have compromised immune systems sharing their fear of how they would cope with four months in isolation. Some would rather take the 'quick way out'. Now the government is changing tack and saying all they meant was that it is recommended to stay away from crowds (which surely has been the point all along?!!!). I just hope that none of those who felt that death would be preferable to 4 months isolation have already killed themselves...
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There is to much hype and miss information about this. A government spokesman, Grant Chaps I think, said today that they will be asked to stay away from crowds and social gatherings. Going for a walk no problem apparently.
We had best wait for the update later.
I know. That made me so angry. The government has no business making general statements about isolations or lockdowns without specifying what is involved - lack of information just leads to panic. I spent yesterday listening to friends who are either over 70 or have compromised immune systems sharing their fear of how they would cope with four months in isolation. Some would rather take the 'quick way out'. Now the government is changing tack and saying all they meant was that it is recommended to stay away from crowds (which surely has been the point all along?!!!). I just hope that none of those who felt that death would be preferable to 4 months isolation have already killed themselves...
It wasn't the government, it was Robert Peston on twitter, which was then taken up by the tabloids.
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No, it was the health secretary - I saw the interview.
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IMO. It's all just another example of the way older people are scapegoated in our society. Why have they got any more responsibility for spreading it than anyone else.?
I do not think it is about them being more responsible for the spreading of it, I think it is more to do with the fact that they have a much higher chance of it being fatal and therefore, for their own health, they would be much wiser to stay at home and as much away from potential hazards as possible.
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Latest: Everyone to avoid non essential contact as of now!
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Latest: Everyone to avoid non essential contact as of now!
I was just on my way to a dance class tonight when I got a What's app cancellation.
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;D
I'm tactile too.
It's 7 days for a person living alone. 14 for a family if anyone feels unwell. Due to the number of [yet unknown] days that it takes to spread. Now that should be a rolling 14 days should each member 'go down' with it. There is a thought that it may be a 28 day incubation period. It isn't clear how long after the last person recovers the family needs to isolate.
Apparently this begins with a sudden fever, aches, pains followed by breathing difficulty. Have a look-see at the various of home-videos of those who have suffered . I know when I am getting a cold as my left arm itches where the jab went into at age 13, against TB? BCG Injection?
When I had 'flu it was instant. OK going to bed, woke the next morning with an aversion to light, aching all over, high temperature, rambling [though some would say that's normal ::)] - in bed for 3-4 days and weak for 14 days after. Don't remember a cold or cough with it. I knew as I woke the 2nd year what I had.
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My reaction to the latest info. They have not told restaurants pubs etc to close. But they have more or less told people not to go. They will have so many cancellations they will not be able to open. It seems like a back door thing to me. Is it due to insurance? The fact that we are not prepared to deal with the fallout to small business and its effect on our economy. ?
Also. Seems to me we are not yet prepared for testing. WHO said"test test test". We are not ready. Havent been able to put that in place in time. Chasing our tails.
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Now that I would be cancelling ;D.
Tc - it's about stopping the risk of spread. Our local bakeries are offering to cook and deliver to those stuck. Many won't be insured against this type of world event. Some will go under. I expect that many did during WWII. Banks are planning on giving some business a break in mortgate/rents etc. to allow cash flow.
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I think Netflix is going to get a bit of a hammering in the coming weeks.
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We run a business,so it is worrying,we've been super busy and taken on more staff in the last few months,just hope we haven't done the wrong thing
On a cheerier note, I still have to go to the dentist tomorrow ;D
I've got dentist tomorrow, inspection and hygienist ???
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My reaction to the latest info. They have not told restaurants pubs etc to close. But they have more or less told people not to go. They will have so many cancellations they will not be able to open. It seems like a back door thing to me. Is it due to insurance? The fact that we are not prepared to deal with the fallout to small business and its effect on our economy. ?
Yes, it seems crazy to me. If we're not supposed to go to restaurants or pubs, then why are they still allowed to be open? The only reason I can think of is insurance - oh, and that said pubs & restaurants will have to keep paying staff, who will then have to pay taxes...
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stellajane - the advice at 4.30 p.m. was that EVERYONE remains at home if 1 in the household shows symptoms of a cold which may be the virus. Which starts with aches and a fever. 1 person alone isolates for 7 days. Any more in the household and they all isolate for 14 as this may turn out to be a rolling incubation period: 5 days up to 28 days B4 symptoms show. Then it probably needs to be everyone stay at home for 5 days after people stop feeling ill.
Not going out is to stop the spread which will release hospital admissions. Staggering I think the word is that I am searching for ::). If you think of the common cold: 3 days to catch it, 3 to suffer, 3 to give it away. Usually we have symptoms B4 the cold breaks, often there's 3-4 days between. Last year we had a cold which I started within 48 hours of Himself coughing and spluttering. That's the 1 where I continued to cough for over 12 months :o. That particular bug didn't make me feel ill after 12 hours as other colds have done. Viruses are variable in their intent >:(
Nowt to do with insurance as many Policies will not cover this type of pandemic. They will probably catch passing trade, I would drop by if the place wasn't busy. I have favourite cafes in various places across the UK ....... the LAs are giving small businesses tax/rent breaks apparently.
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Jaypo. I went dentist at 4.30today. He told me that dentists were the last of all the medical professions to get any official definitive instructions. .
He said the info he had today from his authority was no drilling. So he couldnt go ahead with my planned treatment. My planned treatment was extensive. He did what he could without drilling to avoid me "getting an infection" in case I cannot access dental treatment in the coming weeks. .
Xxx
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Thank you Birdy. Xx
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And finally the government have worked out how serious it is. If I was cynical I'd wonder if enlightenment came when they said pregnant women were in a high risk category. They said there could be as many as 50,000 cases - an order of magnitude bigger than the official figures.
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IMO. It's all just another example of the way older people are scapegoated in our society. Why have they got any more responsibility for spreading it than anyone else.?
I do not think it is about them being more responsible for the spreading of it, I think it is more to do with the fact that they have a much higher chance of it being fatal and therefore, for their own health, they would be much wiser to stay at home and as much away from potential hazards as possible.
Exactly, Jari!
I do realise that's what they want us to think. Unfortunately for me; I dont trust the government. They have more or less said that the worry isnt about old people dying from it. It's about them taking up respirators when younger people who might otherwise survive could have them. How is that not just seeing the elderly as collateral damage !! My parents and others there age have contributed more to the NHS than most of the time wasters I have seen draining the life out of the system for years.
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China has used really draconian methods to keep people at home. We forget what a terrible time the people have there. They may, or may not have got the virus under control, but at what cost.
3,226 deaths. That was the cost. We're facing somewhere between 300,000 and 500,000 in the UK. Overall, in Europe, the toll will be somewhere in the millions.
Remember my initial posts about infection control and containment in January?
As for 'How can they enforce it?' It's called martial law, those statutory instruments were drawn up on 10th February, i.e. four weeks ago, while people were hand washing, before the panic buying started ... they needed to get the panic buying out of the way so that they were prepared to police the looting.
Anyway, now reality has hit, I'm taking a firmly positive stance.
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I think it's time for some good news (according to most recent data):
Strictly speaking, the virus isn't really airborne. Yes, the coughs and sneezes float about for a few seconds before they hit the deck, but mainly we're talking about surfaces, so you can wash it off. This is great news, because it's much easier to clean stuff you can see (e.g. cupboard tops, bathrooms, cutlery) than it is to clean stuff that's invisible (e.g. air). Technically speaking, there's no need for them to stop us going out for walks and the like, it's just that our behaviours show we don't tend to limit ourselves to simply walking. A broad-based approach (you can't go out full stop) is designed with that in mind.
While we're on air, those of us with respiratory illnesses, e.g. asthma and other conditions affecting the lungs, will benefit from the sharp drop in pollutants. In fact, everyone will, because our bodies won't be put under the strain of having to struggle to filter out these nasties.
We're less likely to die from other events that we totally accept as part of everyday life. For example, the most up-to-date information on road traffic accidents in the UK (2018) says a total of 26,610 people were killed or seriously injured that year. Well, this ain't gonna happen if we're not going anywhere is it? It's one way of freeing up ICU beds.
People don't panic forever ... some of us have mental health issues that means we do, but the general population just doesn't, their bio-psychiatric make up means they can't physically sustain it. The initial shock and sense of unpreparedness, combined with confusion around governmental response, created a certain atmosphere. It'll dissipate. Re: food, the state isn't stupid, it knows that if you leave some people with loads and even more people without much, then they'll be a lot of trouble (riots). They'll pre-empt this. We're not living in the 19th Century. Overall Britain is something like the fourth / fifth richest country in the world, both in absolute terms and GDP. Unlike others, we're in a position to 'buy our way out of it'.
China is doing well, it's opening its factories. 'Greater China' is the biggest industrial unit / producer in the whole world. This is good, because they're going to sell us the stuff we need (see above for buying our way out of it). The current resourcing problem (everything from ventilators to face masks and Calpol) is down to the fact that China was shut and that's no longer the case.
Technology - not only are a big bunch of our systems automated, so we don't need as much people power to keep everything going, it will provide us with some relief. We can connect remotely, whether that's to order a repeat prescription, our shopping, or to chat junk online. Also, the folks least likely to be affected, i.e. the young, are the ones with the most competence in this area. Plus, those Asian countries, such as China and S Korea who are now getting back up on their feet, are leaders in the tech revolution.
I think now's the time to move from project fear / project head up the ass to project resilience and hope. I, for one, am really scared. As previously mentioned, I have a third of the lung capacity of a health adult, also a repressed immune system. My adult son has a life threatening condition which requires intensive care treatment - as a disabled person, he simply won't get this.
^^ We need to take positive steps, together, as a huge community, to get through this ... and we will, get through this, with care, compassion and courage.
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Thanks TC,thankfully it's just a check up so fingers crossed.
Could anyone tell me their thoughts please,my stepson is coming to ours on Friday,he's 15 and obviously my OH not keen on telling him he can't come :'(
Skype, Zoom, FaceTime? Ask him what he thinks about coming, because he'll likely not want to, then it's not as if you're telling him to go away.
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The sooner we get to the stage of people not panicking over food the better. Asda was stripped bare this morning. Came home with only half the things on our list. I'm definitely going to give these superstore a miss for the forseeable. Local Co-op is in in for a big jump in takings if they play this right.
Stay safe ElkWarning and son.
I agree Stellajane. I wish they would calm down. I have been searching for local farm fruit n veg box deliveries or pick up points. May be a bit more cost wise but much fresher and hopefully people are restricted to the one box. X
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Let him visit I say. He's not in an at risk age group and if you are poorly, he can surely make a cuppa at the very least ;-).
Be prepared though for him to be quarantined if anyone shows symptoms ;D - visitors are like meat or fish ;-)
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Let him visit I say. He's not in an at risk age group and if you are poorly, he can surely make a cuppa at the very least ;-).
Be prepared though for him to be quarantined if anyone shows symptoms ;D - visitors are like meat or fish ;-)
Really good NHS video here highlighting positives, while also touching on how dangerous underplaying the situation is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_cImRzKXOs&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1PE0cIKz-ytmFo3ER5uEhExTVo8r_5R8Od8jW9CjnP2pwvwtCT036Cqas
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Apparently the idea that people should be entrenched in their properties when healthy is to be re-thought?
I now have a headache reading all the above from Birdy and ElkW ;D. Off for a walk round my garden ;-)
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Finding Classic FM a real boon. Hardly any news and uplifting, relaxing music. :)
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Tnx. New thread ;D
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I am anxious about it all and have had bouts of health anxiety before, my teen daughter is also anxious. I have another bout of Sciatica but have started going for a walk each day, managed an hour of today, my daughter even cam ewith me yesterday which was nice.
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I'm realy worried about being cooped up in my flat alone. I've spent 18 months hardly going out due to anxiety and depression and I had only just recently started to turn a corner and enjoy life again after being in a very bad place. I dont want to go back there for anything.
I dont like my flat, it's never felt like home and being stuck alone in it isnt good for my mental health.. I just hate the thought of feeling so lonely again.
I think going for walks is a great idea Stella. You dont have to get close to anyone.
It's good to read your ideas for using the time indoors,too ladies. . I need a distraction so I dont let my negative thinking get the better of me. So reading this has made me think of what I can do. A project of some sort.
It's so important for those of us with MH Issues to look after our minds as well as bodies and try to pre empt any harmful impact this might have on us. Especially those of us who live alone. Xx
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That's not crass at all Teresa.its very thoughtful.. I must admit i have put zero effort into making it homely. I long for the day I can move out but dont think it's going to be anytime soon.
I've had the worst MH ever since I moved here Its been the worst 18 .months of my life and it's not down to the flat per se , although no one thinks it's nice but a lot of people are far worse off, I just think I will always associate those terrible feelings with living here. If that makes sense.
My landlord is rubbish too. I was very lucky last time with our house we were there 14years, but this one doesnt give a fig. I've had no heating for over 3 weeks. !!!! But that's another story.
Maybe I can think of trying to use the time to go through some of my boxes and put some of my things out. I had to get rid of nearly all my stuff but I do have some things from the house packed away. Thank you. Xxxx
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We can go for walks as long as we keep a certain distance from others. I think that main idea is targeting those who live in close proximity in Cities ;-). We rural folks gets forgotten, we does ......... fortunately!
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Any one find that they are putting laundry through more often ;D. My excuse is to keep DH in under clothes as he hasn't familiarised himself with the laundry room ;D yet. Towels blowing hard on the line. Again. Sheets next.
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Hello ladies.
I heard on the news that we should all get used to a new reality. I like that idea because of course we will adapt, it's what humans do.
The government needs to make sure the economy and employment are also looked after. I can't help feeling that the health service would be in better shape if it hadn't been subjected to ten years of cuts.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Yep. When I left the NHS in 1983 Wards were being closed :'(. Staff levels cut until it became an unsafe working environment. We can't suddenly find Nursing Staff as technology has altered completely. We have been over 40,000 nurses short for many years. Nurses don't grow on trees .......... !
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DH hasn't a clue how to use the washing machine! The manual is in a nearby cupboard, but as he's a man so he can't read manuals! Then he has the cheek to say I don't understand machines or engineering! Mmmm.... I did have fun over that one! ;D
Re using newspaper as toilet paper......we?ll all have printed bottoms! ???
Tc, can you arrange to regularly phone/email friends and family? Will that help? I'm making the point of emailing friends, particularly older people on their own.
I'm sorry about your landlord. My daughter has had similar problems with landlords. But as you know it's not all landlords. We've rent out a house that was meant for investment. Hasn't worked that way. We have had the same tenants for nearly 15 and only put the rent up once and only before 2008, as we needed to be keep enough aside for repairs etc. Good tenants are worth their weight in gold, so it has been worth asking for less than the going rate. And we always tried to sort problems out as quickly as possible. We are now in the process of selling the house to them, so I hope it goes through, with all that's going on. Then we can help my daughter who is also in the process of buying a house thanks to her partners parents being able to give them a sizeable deposit. It really hurt to see the hassles my daughter has has to go through to get things repaired.
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Well done Ju Ju - good tenants have benefitted !
Ought to be watching the PM on the BBC. ::)
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Tc could you move? Re walking it's one of my hobbies, but unfortunately OH has a bad knee and can't go far!!! Really fed up, we've just had the worst 6 months of rain on record and now everything I've been looking forward to is being cancelled 😔
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I know what you mean about the rain ... it was just endless, and now this.
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That's right: mood is essential for me, I have lots to do - but lack impetus ::)
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Small steps like cleaning out and organising the cutlery drawer can be a good start and then get inspired to do more! 👍😊
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These Journalists simply aren't listening to what is being said. However you dress up questions perhaps people in the room should listen to the answers to save asking a variation? which gets the same answer. Also, the PM isn't keeping the required distance from those on the platform ::)
Cutlery - you can afford cutlery ;D
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Panicky and overwhelmed by everything....been to the local shops and to see the shelves empty and watching how people are behaving is beginning to frighten me...I even felt nervous of walking into the village.....everything that was once familiar and safe is beginning to feel different.
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Tc,
I've always found that having familiar things around me helps....unpack some of your stuff and surround yourself with things that bring happy memories.....
I do understand how you feel though.....it's so difficult....I have to pull myself together or I'll turn into Captain Jones from Dad's Army!
"Don't panic" ! :-\
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Listen up - people will panic for a few days. What Managers should be doing is limiting what people try to buy!! Eventually they will run out of storage. Even with bulk shopping 3/4 times a year at Costco, we can't store any more unless we sell the camper van. So the vacuum will be filled.
Buy local? Farm shops? Think about bulk cooking, freezing in meal-sized boxes and using on pasta/rice/mash? Be inventive. Eat less. I find that if I wait B4 I pick a pudding, I often don't need it as my main meal has filled me.
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The problem is that it's difficult to set a limit on all food items - the till staff can't be expected to remember 2 of this, 4 of that, 5 of the other unless it's a jumbo bag and then only one...
They had a list of about 10 items that were limited in the last supermarket I went into. But the spaces where the items weren't limited were bare. One of the staff members said that as soon as they set a limit on one item, people just start stockpiling the next item. Saw one woman with 2 handsoaps in her trolley (the maximum allowed) and at least 20 shower gels (no limit on those). And hardly any shower gel left on the shelves!
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It's been stated on the 1 show to use paracetamol. Now I AM worried as I have never found it helps my symptoms. :'(
Why will nurofen make symptoms worse? too early to know probably ......
It certainly is NOT difficult to limit people to products, that is what Managers are for. In the sugar and potato shortages, limits were put. One could not buy sugar unless they spent a tenner on other goods. That's a cop out. The Manager can control who goes in/out of the store at any one time which will get over the problem of 'no more than groups of X, Y, Z' which seems to be altering daily.
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A dr earlier today mentioned something about you need to allow the inflammation to happen with coronavirus for the body to react to it and fight it x
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AAHhh - there may be a logic in that idea. But we want to feel better sooner. Is it that the lungs are more likely to be affected with Nurofen? Crikey.
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Too many posts to read back all of them especially those that are peripheral.... ::) anyway great posts Elkwarning and Birdy - is all I can say for the mo' !
Hurdity x
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It certainly is NOT difficult to limit people to products, that is what Managers are for. In the sugar and potato shortages, limits were put. One could not buy sugar unless they spent a tenner on other goods. That's a cop out. The Manager can control who goes in/out of the store at any one time which will get over the problem of 'no more than groups of X, Y, Z' which seems to be altering daily.
The problem is getting the checkout staff to remember all the different limits, especially as they change daily - or even hourly. When I went in to the Tescos near my Mum, the managers were going along the tills telling the staff "people can buy as many in-store loaves of bread as they like, but only 2 loaves per shop of the bought-in bread". And they had to remember that on top of '2 packs of loo roll per shop unless it's a 24-pack in which case only one, either 2 handwashes or 1 pack of soap, 1 x UHT milk, 2 x bottles milk any size, 1 large pack or 2 small packs of potatoes, 2 x paracetamol or other painkiller... You can imagine how hard it is, with huge queues at the tills, to be constantly checking a constantly changing list of items - of course, if people would obey the 'only two of this item please' requests, then the checkout staff wouldn't have to keep track, but I saw a number of people ignore those limits and be asked to return items!
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I got neurofen deliberately because it lowers your temperature when you have a fever. Paracetamol doesn't. It seems they think having the fever helps your body fight the virus. I think it's another thing that they think rather than they know but I'll follow the advice as long as I can get paracetamol.
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it's always been common sense to me to not fight your own immune system by bringing down a temperature which is trying to kill the virus, and taking decongestants and anti inflammatories to stop inflammation that's stopping the virus going deeper. I think decongestants are why people get secondary bacterial infections.
Also with ibuprofen, it causes the airways to narrow so can be bad for asthma sufferers. GPs are terrible at pointing this out though and my mum often forgets and ends up on strong steroids until I remind her!
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Thank you Teresa and kmorris . I know how you feel kmorris. . It's all very unsettling when youreput and about.
Sheila. I believe paracetemol does reduce fever. The problem with ibuprofen is I cant take it as an asthma sufferer. It can trigger astma in those who are asprin sensitive. The fact it can trigger astma might be why it's being said it isnt ideal for the virus as it affects the lungs .
Xxx
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The advice is now not to take ibuprofen for this virus. Apparently if it progress to the pneumonia stage it suppress the immune system and causes problems. Paracetamol only is recommended.
I had to buy lemsip as it was the only paracetamol based product I could find.
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Hello ladies.
I searched five shops in my town trying to buy paracetamol for my neighbour. I eventually managed to get one packet from a small chemist but they were running out.
Other products sold out are sanitizers, spectacle cleaning wipes, masks and loo rolls (obviously), bread, canned beans, canned tomatoes, bags of dried food ie lentils, couscous etc, canned vegetables and loo rolls.
I don't blame people for panicking but I wish I had confidence in the government to help us manage this crisis.
Take care ladies.
K.
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It should be the managers telling customers, not the till staff, that becomes confrontential!
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Yes, rationing will have to come in, with the support of government and managers of stores, not left to the till staff, who don't have the authority.
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What's wrong with printing large signs and having a member of staff to gently remind shoppers what the new rules are ? This country seems afraid to confront when necessary!
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I got neurofen deliberately because it lowers your temperature when you have a fever. Paracetamol doesn't. It seems they think having the fever helps your body fight the virus. I think it's another thing that they think rather than they know but I'll follow the advice as long as I can get paracetamol.
That's incorrect. Paracetamol is a known fever reducer. https://www.drugs.com/paracetamol.html
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Also Lemsip and Flu relief sachets - I bought for son who couldn't get any. Contains paracetamol as well as a decongestant but that doesn't matter!
Hurdity x
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Paracetamol is dangerous. So don't take cold preps along with tablets ;-).
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We could, for those not wanting to wade through all the info., false or otherwise, have a 'room' dedicated to the ongoing virus situation. Keeping each thread as written so that people don't have to go into those that have no interest on any particular day. Personally, we can never have enough threads as it is obvious by some responses that others haven't read right the way through some of them ::)
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? does it work though ?
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'does it work' ..... I've never found it helps symptoms 4 me :-\
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You might find this useful. The diagram would not cut and paste, but you can see it on this link.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/03/18/coronavirus-covid-19/#comments
CORONAVIRUS [COVID-19]
42 Replies
18th March 2020
I thought I should say something about the coronavirus for readers of this blog. I need to state that the situation is fast moving, facts are changing, and I am not asking anyone to go against any current medical advice.
Here, I am simply providing advice that I believe, currently, may be of benefit to people out there. I am acutely aware that there is controversy swirling about, but I will not promote anything that can cause any significant harm ? but may cause significant good.
I have tended to look back a few years in time for some evidence, because current, emerging evidence is subject to massive bias and controversy, with various vested interests getting involved. The ?older? evidence has not been done in a rush and is therefore more measured.
1: Anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs)
COVID-19 appears to impact the lungs more than any other organ and COVID-19 can be thought of as a ?viral? community acquired pneumonia. There has been evidence for several years that anti-inflammatory agents e.g. ibuprofen, naproxen (NSAIDs) may worsen community acquired pneumonia. As highlighted in this 2017 paper:
?Non-steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs may Worsen the Course of Community-Acquired Pneumonia: A Cohort Study:
CONCLUSIONS:
Our findings suggest that NSAIDs, often taken by young and healthy patients, may worsen the course of CAP with delayed therapy and a higher rate of pleuropulmonary complications.? 1
There is now anecdotal evidence, particularly from France, that patients who take NSAIDs do considerably worse. It has been suggested they may lead to an increased death rate.
ADVICE: Avoid NSAIDs if possible
2: Vitamin C
Vitamins always cause massive controversy, and the mainstream medical community tends to be highly critical of the use of vitamins. However, vitamin C has been found to have many, many, positive impacts on the immune system. It also protects the endothelium lining blood vessels ? thus preventing/delaying passage of pathogens from the bloodstream.
I include the full abstract from the 2017 paper ?Vitamin C and Immune Function.? It contains a great deal of medical jargon, but I have highlighted the most important parts.
?Vitamin C contributes to immune defense by supporting various cellular functions of both the innate and adaptive immune system. Vitamin C supports epithelial barrier function against pathogens and promotes the oxidant scavenging activity of the skin, thereby potentially protecting against environmental oxidative stress.
Vitamin C accumulates in phagocytic cells, such as neutrophils, and can enhance chemotaxis, phagocytosis, generation of reactive oxygen species, and ultimately microbial killing. It is also needed for apoptosis and clearance of the spent neutrophils from sites of infection by macrophages, thereby decreasing necrosis/NETosis and potential tissue damage.
The role of vitamin C in lymphocytes is less clear, but it has been shown to enhance differentiation and proliferation of B- and T-cells, likely due to its gene regulating effects. Vitamin C deficiency results in impaired immunity and higher susceptibility to infections. In turn, infections significantly impact on vitamin C levels due to enhanced inflammation and metabolic requirements.
Furthermore, supplementation with vitamin C appears to be able to both prevent and treat respiratory and systemic infections. Prophylactic prevention of infection requires dietary vitamin C intakes that provide at least adequate, if not saturating plasma levels (i.e., 100?200 mg/day), which optimize cell and tissue levels. In contrast, treatment of established infections requires significantly higher (gram) doses of the vitamin to compensate for the increased inflammatory response and metabolic demand.? 2
In short, Vitamin C can help prevent respiratory infections. It can also help to treat established infections, although much higher doses are required. This seems to fit with emerging Chinese data which appears to be showing considerable success with high dose intravenous Vitamin C in treating coronavirus.
It is unlikely that anyone working in the medical system in the West will agree to using high dose Vitamin C as part of any management plan. However, if your loved one is extremely ill in hospital I would recommend speaking to the doctors and asking if this can be added.
Whilst it is possible that vitamin C may prove ineffective, it also does no harm. Those who are currently attacking the use of Vitamin C and attacking those who believe vitamin C may be beneficial are, I believe, mainly concerned with their personal reputations.
ADVICE: Take at least 2g of Vitamin daily C to ?prevent? infection, probably more like 5g. Increase the dose to at least 10g if you are suffering symptoms.
3: ACE-inhibitors/ARBs
COVID-19 appears to enter the body using the ACE2 receptor (found on the surface of many cells, particularly in the lungs. Also found in high concentrations in the heart and kidneys.
Because of its affinity to ACE2 receptors (and the more widespread Renin Aldosterone Angiotensin System or ?RAAS?) COVID-19 is causing upset with the whole system ? in complex ways. The system itself is complex.
To remind those of a more technical bent, here is the system:
I wished to make it clear that if COVID-19 impact on the RAAS system, trying to work out the resultant abnormalities, is not easy.
There are two main drugs that are designed to lower blood pressure by ?interfering? with the RAAS system. ACE-inhibitors (angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors), and ARBs (angiotensin II receptor blockers). They are very widely prescribed.
Some people have suggested that these drugs should be stopped. Others have suggested that they should be continued. You may be able to see why the advice is contradictory, given all the possible interactions.
However, it does seem the COVID-19 creates hypokalaemia (a low blood potassium level). A rising potassium level indicates recovery from the virus. This is probably due to interference with the hormone Aldosterone due to degradation of many ACE-receptors in the body.
ADVICE ? currently not enough information to provide any advice on ACE-inhibitors and ARBs. However, increased consumption of potassium, if symptomatic, can be advised. Dose?
?People who eat large amounts of fruits and vegetables tend to have a high potassium intake of approximately 8000 to 11,000 mg/d,? 3
So, up to Ig a day appears perfectly safe, and if more is being lost through the kidneys with COVD-19, there appears to be little danger of overdosage.
4: Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
These drugs normally used to treat/prevent malaria (and are also used to treat various ?immune? disease). However, they have been found to be effective in treating other viruses and seem to have been highly effective against COVID-19 4. These drugs will only be available as part of medical management. They cannot be bought over the counter (in any country, as far as I know).
If you, or a loved one, is seriously ill, I would urge you to ask for ? one or the other ? to be used. Hydroxychloroquine has fewer side effects (drug related adverse effects)
ADVICE ? Ask for one of these drugs if you, or a loved one, is seriously ill with COVID-19.
5: Vitamin D
This one is simple. Vitamin D has important effects on the immune system 5. A low vitamin D level in the winter is almost certainly why flu epidemics occur in the winter months. [Vitamin D is synthesized in the sun by the action of sunlight].
ADVICE ? take at least 2000iu vitamin (preferably D3) daily.
I hope some people have found this useful. If anything I have written here proves to be wrong, or dangerous, I will change it. However, I am working on the basis here of ?first, do no harm.? The worse thing that any of this advice can do, I believe, is to NOT work.
1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28005149
2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5707683/
3: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/485434
4: https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results
5: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756814/
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Tnx but far too long ::)
VitC has to be taken in HUGE amounts and anything over what the body needs is discharged via urine. There was a study many years ago (1960s) which was eventually discredited, somewhere we have a copy :-\.
Also I believe it is too early for any tests to have been done and what came out of France this week has no prove behind it re nurofen. So the UK government has advised not to use it for this particular virus.
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Interesting CLKD, but Dr.Kendrick is a GP and he does a lot of research. I think I will go with what he says.
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Very interesting Shadyglade.
I am eating more vit c fruits plus supplements. Also D3. 👍
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Could you copy and paste for a new thread and split the topics with references - it would be easier to read and not be lost in the main thread?
There was a whole article on the BBC this morning about fake news and I think that the French reference was stated there. After all, the virus doesn't last many days so it is possible that patients recovered B4 the medication trial rather than due to it ;-).
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This virus is causing everyone so many problems, I know you can get bogged down with what are minor issues surrounding this, especially with people dying but it's hitting us hard: Hubby has a lost a third of his pension, if it doesn't recover he won't be able to retire in 3 yrs like he wanted to, on the plus side at least his company has seen sense and closed the office, everyone working from home, may even work out to be more productive! Teenager's important A level exams have been cancelled, if they go with mock exam results that'll be ok he did well but I can see some students being very disappointed. Worried about my nearly 98 yr old grandmother, mind you she is in very good health but....this among other things, but unfortunately all out of our hands.
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Phoned my local pet shop at 4pm today to see if my order of puppy milk had come in. Poor girl was in tears. Her 2 staff hadn't come in. She was literally raided when she opened this morning. Shelves emptied. She shut up shop at 2pm. Nothing left on the shelves.
People are going completely bonkers.
I met her at about 6pm, to collect my puppy milk, which had just been delivered. And she said that when she opened up this morning there was already 30 cars waiting outside. They blocked the road !!
Bless her heart, she stayed there to give me the milk. So I said that if she opens up tomorrow to call me and I will go and help a bit. I can leave my puppy for an hour to help.
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Well, we've got to help keep local businesses going for as long as we can. I rely on my local shops and have done for about a year, since I've struggled to drive.
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I hope so.
My brother is a consultant anaethatist in a NHS hospital, so very much on the front lines. His hospital has 1 CV patient in intensive care and 8 others receiving less intensive treatment.
He's having to take on additional duties. It's all hands to the pump.
And he's scared. He doesn't get scared.
That makes me scared.
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Oh Pants :medal:
Wish more people were like you.
xx
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Sorry if this is obvious but should we or shouldn't we be taking paracetamol to lower our body temperature/fever? Is it best to allow the fever to work its way through our bodies without drugs or to lower the fever?
If I know that it is less dangerous to allow the fever to take hold then I will abstain from paracetamol...if possible.
I know that ibuprofen is not recommended.
I'm worried that a lot of old people do not realise that they should not be taking ibuprofen or cant get hold of any paracetamol.
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To all that said I should not charge when I am forced to close. Well I have to on Monday until further notice.
Great. From Monday, I have absolutely no income whatsoever, no subsidies, no grants, insurance company not replying, government talking about a loan. Ffs with what money can I repay!
Desolate and finished.
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Difficult for childcare providers!
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But most still have an income.
My business is most likely finished. Thinking of selling my house tonight. Thanks for your support.
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My childminding insurance will not pay out for loss of revenue, says Covid 19 was not a notifiable disease when I took out the policy ( have had the same policy for 23 years!, renewal was last August) basically unless I get the support of the parents to cover me when I am closed, I am screwed and I will have to sell my house.
Dark times
Three months ago I had a business with an annual turnover of ?98,000, an employee and 55 children on the books. Tonight, I am likely to lose everything.
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I cannot even write what I think of the whole load if b#@*@#@s!
I am guessing these grants will not materialise and what good is a loan of you are not making any money, when you start earning again you will be paying it all back in the loan!
Hope you are OK birdy
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Donna - would you be able to claim universal credits? They have lowered the threshold of proven income to 0 as far as I understand.
Mortgage lenders will give you a 3 month extension and it may all have calmed by then and your clients will come back.
Key workers will still require childcare so perhaps update your website and marketing towards them for now.
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I don't know dangermouse. I will look into it. If it is for a month then we can probably muddle through, if it is for longer ( which is probable) then we will struggle. Mortgage, electricity, water, council tax, car tax 4 cars ( all for business) food, insurance policies, life cover, pensions, so scared I cannot sleep tonight for worrying about it all.
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First day of no more reported cases from Wuhan... with any luck now on the road to recovery.. x
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Before I start on my comment, I just want to say how sorry I feel for all those who are worried about where their money is going to come from in the foreseeable future. Donnadoobie - it's bad enough worrying about your health but when your livelihood is slipping away from you I can't imagine how bad you feel xx
Has anyone received a text from NHS No Reply - it gives brief advice to stay at when you have Coronavirus symptoms, which is fair enough. However it then goes on to say that if symptoms get serious to visit the NHS111 online service. It has been sent from our doctors surgery.
My husband and I are in our late 60's with no known underlying health conditions but we would have no family support, the thought of either one of both of us being seriously (an explanation from them of what constitutes this would have been helpful) ill and trying to access a system we're not familiar with fills me with dread.
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We had the same. Is anyone in your area arranging the postcard/ribbon idea? We don't have support either and I think that it is unlikely that people would notice we were in trouble. Our curtains can be closed for days and no one taps the door because everyone drives by.
Do you have a village shop flutterby? Do you look at facebook for your village/town? That's how I have found out what support is being offered locally.
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Hi CLKD we're in a similar situation we can have no one coming to our door in months ( apart from deliveries ). It is nearly always me contacting and visiting friends and normally doing volunteering and a few classes. We live on the out skirts of a large town and though there is so much deprivation in parts of the town. This area gets overlooked as it appears affluent, however I see little community and it saddens me.
I've been in touch with a community action group and I'm getting a poster which I'll print off and ask the few shops in our area to put up. This will offer support with food shopping and hopefully some emotional support through telephone contact. I would love to offer more but I do feel more vulnerable because of my age. Flutterbyx
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it's gonna be a lot longer than 2 weeks. According to the Govt Chief Medical Officer the peak is expected to be around mid May between 10 and 14 weeks away so the other end of the curve will be another 10-14 weeks after that provided we limit the spread by strictly adopting recommendations re social distancing. The pandemic in UK is only just beginning to take off with London currently the epicentre. We are all going to have to change our lives for the next FEW MONTHS at least to ensure the NHS has the capacity to deal with the seriously ill patients who need intensive care. Until a safe and reliable anti-viral drug for the seriously ill becomes available, and a vaccine for all (probably 18 months) once we lift restrictions the virus is likely to take off again ? although the second peak may be slower due to some immunity. However the idea of us cutting social contact will not build immunity but is to prevent infection so many of us will still be susceptible.
I agree there are too many specific threads on Covid-19. However some of the discussion doesn't belong here but in ?Other Health Discussion? so I'm going to start a science/medical based one there (when I get around to it!) so we can post info and keep the loo roll chat and other general stuff etc on this board! ::)
So sorry for all those whose business is affected ? and let's hope there will be sufficient financial support available. More important that we all follow the guidance and don't mix or get near others if we have the choice and stay as healthy as we can :)
Re school closures and who gets to go to school - I think a list of essential workers is being drawn up - but it's going to be pretty large I would say.
Hurdity x
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Absoutely agree about the chat stellajane!! Especially now! Just wanted to separate the other stuff. I've started a thread but not about the drugs - I did read something yesterday which was very technical and was referring to influenza and the cytokine storm (the dangerous part of CV) but not CV itself. Will see what I can find!
No we can't change our living arranagements nor should we although whole households must isolate for 14 days if anyone gets the virus or similar symptoms.
It's avoidable contact we need to limit and wash hands frequently etc. I'm not even visiting my elderly parent - well not going in the house but will go for walks with her etc. Keep in daily contact via e-mail phone and Skype. Not taking any risks (to put others at risk) if I don't have to. My husband is mid 70's although in good health.....
Hurdity x
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Also re the school closures - I hope I am allowed to put this link here (these are exceptional times and it's free!) - it is for free resources for parent ( and grandparents!) for children to use during school closures:
https://www.twinkl.co.uk/resources/covid19-school-closures
Hurdity x
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G
They are looking at the school closure situation today and the half shut, half open plan where they're going to be deciding who's kids have parents doing vital work. I started to think this through related to the parents in my granddaughter's class and came to the conclusion there would be as many in school as out!
Same here Stella. Just among DD's classmates there are 5 children that have parents working at the local hospital, two work at the local prison, 2 teachers and 3 that work in supermarkets. That's 12 out of a class of 27, and there are probably a couple more.
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Get a farm, we are looking forwards to the extra help! :)
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Anyone else currently working from home? How are you finding it?
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My partner is. He's loving it but he's not a naturally social person. I'm at home due to school closure. I'm quite happy as plenty to do but really miss my evening trip to the pub. I don't mind if everyone does it but it's infuriating to know that others don't give a f*** about following advice! >:(
How are you finding it?
Taz x
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The caravan sites down here are busy! People are leaving the towns and cities and coming to their static vans to reduce the risk of infection. Sandringham is apparently really busy, was talking to some caravanners this morning.
Went to see my Mum in the care home. had to have temperature taken and fill in questionnaire and go straight to Mum's room and stay there. No mixing with other people. Thorough Hand washing entering and leaving. Mum was on good form and I was trying to explain that I can't have my usual lunch with her on Saturday and about the virus. She said ?well whoever invented that.? ;D
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My daughter is working from home. She says it's very lonely and she never thought she would miss the office.
Where are you based Pennyfarthing? I am in Norfolk so maybe not too far from you.
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However those in Wales are asking 2nd home owners not to visit because they might take up hospital beds due to the virus. Well when I was in the NHS in a holiday town it was mainly visitors that took up Hospital beds from end of April to September >:( 'cos people on holiday so really stupid things :bang: :poke2:
Whoops this should be in the C holiday thread ;)
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Yep. My own bathroom is the best :-*
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I preferred working from home too but mostly because it saved me 2 hours a day travelling (and great in winter when I could ride the horse in my extended lunch hour and work when it was dark).
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I worked from home for years. Walked the dogs B4 9.00, worked until they insisted on lunch at 12.30, another walk mid afternoon and I could work into the evening when necessary. Then another dog walk.
Healthier then that I ever was even though my job was sitting down.
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For those of us who are extremely introverted, this social distancing thing is really just normal life.
A point made by my bestie a few weeks ago, when I said I was worried about catching it, she said I wouldn't cos I never go out, and when I do, I don't like interacting with people.
Fair point, well made.
I feel sorry for the extroverts and social butterflies.
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Me neither Teresa! ;D
Taz x
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Hubby is a cop and two of his workmates in a neighbouring station have covid-19. He goes back to work on Sunday after 2 weeks off. I am a sitting duck and so is he.
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Yeah, I was thinking I wouldn't want to be in a holiday home in case one of us fell ill. No place like home if you're not well.
Plus that counts as unnecessary travel even if it's only a few miles away :(
Taz x
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I read something on Twitter about an anti-Malarial drug possibly being used. That kind of thing would be interesting if you scientific bods could post for us H.
I've posted some information in the thread I started about the science etc in the other health board - a summary article about what's going on re vaccines and drugs in terms of clinical trials.
Hurdity x
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Had a really helpful chat with a lady at AgeUK yesterday regarding caring for older relatives.
She said (what I have been thinking) that total isolation might mean the vulnerable don't get the virus, but it would also increase deaths from stress and also result in more mental health issues. She advised that visiting such people would be extremely low risk providing:
1) you are both symptom free and maintain a minimum distance of 1 metre at all times
2) you either don't eat/drink anything or if you do, you bring it with you and take it away again after (e.g. bring a flask of tea for you while your 'host' makes their own in the kitchen
3) you put on disposable gloves just before entering the house and remove them as soon as you leave. Also, avoid using the loo if possible - just go in, sit in a chair, don't touch anything.
4) the vulnerable person, as far as possible, only has one visitor instead of different people each day. So if you are a family, designate one person to visit mum each week, one person to visit auntie etc.
Obviously, in good weather, it is much better if you can sit out in the garden or meet in a park.
She also told me about the Silver Line charity, which provides a free, confidential support line which is manned 24 hours a day. Any elderly person can ring at any time, whether they have a worry or just want a friendly voice to chat to. The website is thesilverline.org.uk and the number is 0800 4708090.
Hope this is helpful for some of you either isolating yourselves or seeking to care for those who are.
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Thanks Dorothy. That's really useful. Here's the link for Silverline https://www.thesilverline.org.uk/
Taz x
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Good advice Dorothy. What worries me most is if I shed the virus before I know I've got it. My MIL wouldn't survive it. On the positive side there are so many local groups offering to help perhaps some will keep helping/visiting isolated people after the crises is over.
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That's my worry sheila - I often ache or have a background headache :-\
I SCRUBBED the lids of our Council bins with Domestos and boiling water earlier. Under the handle and lid, anywhere that another might have touched.
Tnx Dorothy ..........
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To all that said I should not charge when I am forced to close. Well I have to on Monday until further notice.
Great. From Monday, I have absolutely no income whatsoever, no subsidies, no grants, insurance company not replying, government talking about a loan. Ffs with what money can I repay!
Desolate and finished.
Donna, do you have a cafe business?
I wondered if you do and if you are near a hospital maybe you could make food/drink packs for service staff?
Also there is a charity ( started a new thread in this n that.)that have paint incase you could use this time for a redecoration, not sure if relevant to you but incase anyone reading? X
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Hubby is a cop and two of his workmates in a neighbouring station have covid-19. He goes back to work on Sunday after 2 weeks off. I am a sitting duck and so is he.
I am so sorry. /virtual hugs.
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Thank you much dorothy.
I just cannot get through to my 80 year old parents. I was actually glad they shut pubs and cafes now for selfish reasons I know but people round here just werent listening. but my dad has still been going to pub and both of them to cafe every day.
I've just told them them there is no need for them to go to shops. I will go out shopping and I will stay away and leave food at door. But they say "it's only vulnerable people who cant go to the shops" I cant get through to them that they are vulnerable merely by virtue of their age. Then they said "he (health minister) only said "older people with underlying health conditions" for a start my mum has a heart condition but ladies, they have misinterpreted the info. I'm pulling my hair out. I've done nothing but argue with them which is the last thing I want to do.
I'm upset that my local supermarkets have allowed people to cram in behind each other in queues. Right on each others shoulders. I dont see anyone wiping down the self service checkouts. These chains could go a lot further to Implement distancing by controlling the crowds. I think they have to take more responsibility all round. Going to the pub isnt essential but shopping is.
To me it makes sense for one person. I.e me as I live alone to do the shopping and deliver it and to otherwise isolate myself. But my parents just wont listen.
I hate to say this but I am also very worried that by going out they are at risk of other infections aside from covid and also of falls and that if that happens they will not receive the medical care because we are in crisis.
All our docs surgeries shut this week. Mine today. Phone consultations only but .My mum has been waiting since Monday for a phone consultation which was put in place monday instead of her hospital appointment which was cancelled and it still hasnt happened.
Xxxx
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I am still playing golf. My daughter is telling me off as I am asthmatic but honestly, if I can't go out and play golf, I?ll go doo lally especially as I so far don't have symptoms. I am still working too. They have adapted so much on the golf courses that the risk is no different than taking a walk or walking a dog
It goes without saying that If I develop any of the symptoms I will stay home self isolate x
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my hubby had to collect his prescription today. at the surgery the doors are locked and you have to ring a bell. a nurse comes out in full protective gear and takes your temperature. If it's OK you are allowed in. The dispenser then makes you stand behind the line on the floor and passes the prescription at arms length.
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Think that's ok Annie,I'm walking my dogs,no way can I stay indoors all day every day but of course I'm being careful,keeping the body healthy keeps the mind healthy :)
I?ll carry on for as long as I can x
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Of course we're allowed to be outside (except if self-isolating due to suspecting having the virus or household)! Anyone who lives in a rural area or near a park can go outside. Get fresh air, get those lungs going,, or drive out to somewhere rural where there are few people! Even the empty streets if you live in a town or city and nowhere in a park. Get up early to avoid the crowds out exercising! The clocks go forward soon so our evenings will be longer, temperatures warmer and it won't seem so bad then....
Hurdity x
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my hubby had to collect his prescription today. at the surgery the doors are locked and you have to ring a bell. a nurse comes out in full protective gear and takes your temperature. If it's OK you are allowed in. The dispenser then makes you stand behind the line on the floor and passes the prescription at arms length.
And yet supermarkets have done nothing to control people being too close together. My aunt in Holland said that for weeks they have had systems in place to make sure customers are kept at a safe distance from each other.
I agree about going for walks. For most people it is a,healthy thing for body and mind.
I feel bad about arguing with my dad. I get why he didnt want to stop his,daily routine until he absolutely had to. As some older people may fear they will never get back to it and deteriorate. I suppose its,selfish of me realy I just dont want anything to happen to them.
Xxxx
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I notice a lot of pubs, cafes and restaurants are now offering takeaway foods since they have been closed down. I am wondering about who prepares the food and how can we be assured that they are healthy and not passing on germs. I am also concerned about how fresh the food would be since footfall will be down and money is tight.
I feel happier eating only food that I have prepared myself. I am always scrupulous about hygiene in the kitchen and even more so in the last few days.
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Do you get tested in that type of situation? I feel I should know the answer but I feel I'm suffering from information overload today.
I don't know. This is the station involved. Hubby is 5km away in a neighbouring station.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-melbourne-police-officer-tests-positive-to-covid19/88f6d9c6-1270-43a1-b692-507568faaf6b
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It is less likely to live on food stuffs but loves HARD surfaces. Counters, door handles, loo flush, car boots, trolley handles. So a good swab down with HOT SOAPY water once an hour drowns the Bug.
Tc - if you have given advice then step back. Parents are unlikely to listen to us, what do *we* know >:(. If they go for a walk they will find less people about and those will be keeping their distance if sensible. We went out hand in hand earlier ........ met people walking their dogs and others who kept their distance.
No one is getting tested as the Labs. can't keep up. Not even GPs who are isolating due to a family member having cold symptoms. So the NHS has backed itself into a corner over that one! 3 GPs in 1 family who could be at work, if they were tested for C-19 as a child has a cold. Go figure :(
It's up to people not to stand close in supermarkets. I usually back into people if they start breathing down my neck, the "You are invading my space" usually does it ;-) or standing on toes certainly moves them. If I mutter in2 a carrier bag, people keep well away - 1 has 2B inventive and that's me on a normal shopping outing ;-) I jest not. I HATE people too close >:(
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Muttering into a carrier bag, I like that one! Is it so people will think one is a bit odd? At the moment my cough is lingering after a nasty cold, so if anyone comes too close I can just start hacking and that moves them fast enough.
The local Boots has put down strips of hazard tape on the floor one metre apart in the areas where you queue for prescriptions. Staff bellow at anyone not complying. Our small Lloyd's pharmacy seems only to be letting in one or two at a time, as yesterday there was a very long queue outside - all standing at least a metre apart.
JP x
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So pleased that you are beginning to recover :tulips2: :tulips:
I cough nearly all the while due to reflux ::) ....... the muttering into a brown paper bag really works ;) it makes people back off . Usually.
Report in the paper this morning stating that not many people are staying at home. Don't the Powers that Be realise that here, in the deep countryside, one HAS to go out ......... I don't want to be cremated with lots of other bodies due to starvation >:( so need to go shopping for food and to get fresh air! as well as supporting our local shop 8)
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Has he landed jaypo? Making sure that everyone uses hot water with detergent regularly on surfaces: door handles, car steering wheels, inside and out. People may be visiting today to make sure that everyone is OK. Keeping a distance inside ? No one can not know the Rules but some may not understand nor realise how serious this is.
It's on the News right now about public spaces and distancing.
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I was wondering that about fruit.
Does anyone use Milton fluid to wash them before they eat.?
As long as you ( as it were) keep his hygiene up Jay, and he hasnt been around anyone who has flu symptoms, ( ask where he's been, before he comes to you) then there's not much else you can do. I think you'd be relatively safe. As safe as you can be anyway. xx
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpfStJ9qa70
A very powerful listen
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Ask him how others are coping with isolation etc., put the conversation ball into his court so he doesn't feel treated. Did he bring his pet along?
I'm fed up with this Government. Harping on about how supermarkets are doing their best and there is plenty of food to be had. Well actually, that might be true in towns but out here in the sticks. Nope. Managers are being bullied by queues and no help from the Army which should have been on stand by for such events. Food being pulled off the shelves in order to fulfil on-line orders, WHF. One would have thought it was all behind the main shopping areas so that the orders, many which will be regular, are made up out of public sight? Now they are offering specific times for health workers etc., Tesco taking out a large advert ......... I suppose I can use the advert as loo paper >:(
The food delivery industry is so timed to booking into warehouses to pick up their delivery: they have to be there within so many seconds of their due time otherwise they miss their slot - so it cannot outrun this system. Computer says 'no'. I have seen less lorries on the roads this week than usual. With European borders being closed there are less foreign drivers too. I spent 5 hours on the road during the week and it was far easier to travel.
It's OK for the Government to make suggestions to those living in urban areas :-\
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Update from the UK Government:
Shoppers in the UK have been told to "be responsible" and think of others such as NHS workers, after panic-buying amid the coronavirus outbreak.
Environment Secretary George Eustice said there is more than enough food to go around - but the challenge for shops is keeping shelves stocked.
It comes as supermarkets have been overwhelmed by increased purchasing.
Meanwhile, cafes, pubs and restaurants across the UK have closed as part of measures to stop the virus spreading.
"Frankly we should all be ashamed," said Prof Stephen Powis, medical director at NHS England, who said panic-buyers are depriving NHS staff of the supplies they need.
"These are the very people that we all need to look after perhaps us or our loved ones in the weeks to come."
How about depriving Zoo collections of fresh foodstuffs: rescue centres of pet food: Care Home residents of basic food stuffs: street sleepers ....... or have these not reached the Governments' radar yet :-\
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Where had he been to witness all these people walking about :-\ ??? Why was he not staying in Hospital accommodation if he was 'on call' :-\
People have to eat. Exercise. It's about keeping distance and good hygiene. The UK is short of hospital beds 24/7. This isn't new situation. What we need are more intensive care oxygen points available with staff who know how to operate them. 24/7.
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I think people aren't taking it seriously because there were so many people for so long saying there was nothing to worry about. It's going to take a lot to change those minds now.
As I see it, this is the phoney war bit, where nothing apparently happens, before all hell breaks loose.
I've got one daughter in Lewisham and another who's a key worker. They're both horribly exposed. I can't help with my autistic granddaughter, because I have to isolate due to my medically fragile son. It's a mess. Very stressful.
Working from home is ok, have hardly noticed what the issues will be as it's such chaos. We're trying to pump clinical academics back into the NHS, while simultaneously graduate our final year med students so we can get them into the service.
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@shadyglade. I know my talk about chinese shopping behaviour sounds racist. I actually don't care at this point. Australia is in Asian territory and we have been dealing with their behaviour for several years. Baby formula was being raised to the point that families here couldn't get supplies. Our major pharmacy here (Chemist Warehouse) has daigou's lined up stocking their cars with it. Supermarkets would get hit the minute the delivery trucks arrived.
When covid-19 started getting serious, they did runs on masks, hand sanitizer, cleaning product, etc.
Next came organized bus trips to rural supermarkets and pharmacies. Thankfully we now have strict restrictions and their business model is being broken.
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I haven't used that word but what I would say is that people here have been bulk buying for profit too. All ethnicities I believe.
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I haven't used that word but what I would say is that people here have been bulk buying for profit too. All ethnicities I believe.
True, but the chinese daigou's are our biggest problem. When they are raiding bushfires areas in buses, you know their behaviour is appalling. They do not care for their fellow man.
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Well there is a lot of that about everywhere by everyone.
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Well there is a lot of that about everywhere by everyone.
It's not the same. They are sneaky. They flout restrictions by changing clothes and making repeated entry to the shops where they buy the limit and then go back. It's been videoed repeatedly but only now is it being taken seriously. I am surprised someone hasn't been seriously hurt because it pisses everyone off. Our products are considered "clean" in China, particularly after that disastrous event a few years ago when they were cutting formula with melamine and babies died.
It is time that governments looked after their own citizens first.
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Well there is a lot of that about everywhere by everyone.
It's not the same. They are sneaky. They flout restrictions by changing clothes and making repeated entry to the shops where they buy the limit and then go back. It's been videoed repeatedly but only now is it being taken seriously. I am surprised someone hasn't been seriously hurt because it pisses everyone off. Our products are considered "clean" in China, particularly after that disastrous event a few years ago when they were cutting formula with melamine and babies died.
It is time that governments looked after their own citizens first.
Yellowflower - same here! Migrants are still turning up every day in boats and we are allowing them in with god knows what diseases. Priti Patel is trying her best to stop this but there are too many dogooders standing in her way. I totally agree that each country has a responsibility to care for its own people first.
Which reminds me I sincerely hope we are not still sending foreign aid to countries when we desperately need it for our struggling NHS in this crisis.
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I'm taking care of my brother at the moment who has been seriously unwell. He lives by the coast and today we sat out on his terrace and could clearly see people on the beach having tailgate parties and barbeques in the sunshine. People are not getting the message over how serious this is. The Government needs to put the UK on lockdown.
Thusfar our death toll day on day is following almost an identical trajectory to Italy's.
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I'm taking care of my brother at the moment who has been seriously unwell. He lives by the coast and today we sat out on his terrace and could clearly see people on the beach having tailgate parties and barbeques in the sunshine. People are not getting the message over how serious this is. The Government needs to put the UK on lockdown.
Thusfar our death toll day on day is following almost an identical trajectory to Italy's.
We had to close our beaches in Sydney today because 1000's of complete dickheads decided to descend on Bondi yesterday. Their attitude seems to be that they are young and healthy and to hell with everyone else. I think this level of idiocy should be dealt with severely. Give them a huge on the spot fine.
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I'm taking care of my brother at the moment who has been seriously unwell. He lives by the coast and today we sat out on his terrace and could clearly see people on the beach having tailgate parties and barbeques in the sunshine. People are not getting the message over how serious this is. The Government needs to put the UK on lockdown.
Thusfar our death toll day on day is following almost an identical trajectory to Italy's.
We had to close our beaches in Sydney today because 1000's of complete dickheads decided to descend on Bondi yesterday. Their attitude seems to be that they are young and healthy and to hell with everyone else. I think this level of idiocy should be dealt with severely. Give them a huge on the spot fine.
I saw that on the news last night. They are very foolish and selfish.
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It's instant Jail in some countries.
Foreign Aid is a different budget and legally agreed upon with other Countries. It would take months even to get to Parliament to be read as an issue. The fault lies with consecutive UK Governments cutting back in the NHS - they didn't listen to front line staff. If the public knew how many items of expensive kit lays around our Hospitals because once purchased, they couldn't fund the Staff to operate them :-X. Kit which could be used 24/7 ......... then the Government has the cheek to fine Health Authorities that don't meet 'targets' which are set by people with no medical knowledge .............. if I could growl I would >:(
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It's genetic. Remember when we were that age, everything seemed bright and surmountable. When it affects groups then they may step back and listen. Until then, unless the Government bans all movement which isn't really possible as we all have to eat .........
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A worthwhile read:
https://www.viva.org.uk/blog/only-dress-rehearsal
Extract:
Of course, coronavirus didn't originate like this but is thought to have come from one of China's ?wet? seafood markets where caged animals are also bought and slaughtered to order. I really can't face describing it in any greater detail but up to 100 different species of wild creatures can be on offer, from pythons to baby deer, bats to civet cats, chickens and wolf cubs ? yes wolf cubs. But before we be too righteous, look in any posh butchers in the right season and you?ll see a whole menagerie of wild animals hanging up ? hares and rabbits, pheasants and partridge, muntjac deer and ducks.
It is thought that this new coronavirus spread from bats to pangolins and no one could possibly have predicted that, could they? Well, no ? unless you discount the outbreak of SARS, another coronavirus that appeared in China in 2004, which infected some 8,000 people and killed 774. The source? Civet cats, which again are thought to have picked the virus up from bats!
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hi Night_Owl. Yep. they eats some strange things in Asia.
However, the Game Market across Europe is tightly controlled. They are 'meant' to be eaten if that makes sense where as wolves, bats, cats are not. Unless 1 is captured when anything would do for protein. Most Games is shot on the run and not kept in cages for weeks on end. So is as fresh a source of protein as it is possible to get. I was raised on pigeon pie ;-). Dad shot as necessary to put extra meat on the table, we didn't have a fridge in the 1950s so it had to be fresh.
Sadly the Chinese go their own way ........ with no building regs., a high level of human abuse :'( but still the 1st World buys from them?
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Not to forget the barbaric practice of eating **live** creatures.
Check it out online - if you have the stomach for it. eg. small dogs / creatures COOKED ALIVE. The stuff of nightmares.
**Culture Is Never an Excuse for Animal Cruelty**
**Tradition Is Never an Excuse for Cruelty**
The world needs to be mindful of where the virus originated - and HOW.
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Where did she get it from :-\
I agree Night_Owl. Can't understand people eating oysters either :-X >:(
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A worthwhile read:
https://www.viva.org.uk/blog/only-dress-rehearsal
Extract:
Of course, coronavirus didn't originate like this but is thought to have come from one of China's ?wet? seafood markets where caged animals are also bought and slaughtered to order. I really can't face describing it in any greater detail but up to 100 different species of wild creatures can be on offer, from pythons to baby deer, bats to civet cats, chickens and wolf cubs ? yes wolf cubs. But before we be too righteous, look in any posh butchers in the right season and you?ll see a whole menagerie of wild animals hanging up ? hares and rabbits, pheasants and partridge, muntjac deer and ducks.
It is thought that this new coronavirus spread from bats to pangolins and no one could possibly have predicted that, could they? Well, no ? unless you discount the outbreak of SARS, another coronavirus that appeared in China in 2004, which infected some 8,000 people and killed 774. The source? Civet cats, which again are thought to have picked the virus up from bats!
I agree night owl. It is so grim!!
If interested google Ricky gervais and Peter Egan who are campaigning for a stop to live animal markets. So cruel!!
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hi Night_Owl. Yep. they eats some strange things in Asia.
However, the Game Market across Europe is tightly controlled. They are 'meant' to be eaten if that makes sense where as wolves, bats, cats are not. Unless 1 is captured when anything would do for protein. Most Games is shot on the run and not kept in cages for weeks on end. So is as fresh a source of protein as it is possible to get. I was raised on pigeon pie ;-). Dad shot as necessary to put extra meat on the table, we didn't have a fridge in the 1950s so it had to be fresh.
Sadly the Chinese go their own way ........ with no building regs., a high level of human abuse :'( but still the 1st World buys from them?
Don't know about tightly controlled. What about the catching and eating of song birds, in Malta and France. Supposed to be illegal but still goes on.
The virus is not passed on from cooked Bush meat as the cooking process kills it. Touching the animal is enough so a child picking up a dead bat could do it.
The Spanish Flu of 1918 actually originated in a army camp in America. Pigs were the source there.
An outbreak of the plague in 19th century California was caused by white farmers catching and killing Ground Squirrels. It was wrongly blamed on the local Latino population so nothing has changed much.
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hi Night_Owl. Yep. they eats some strange things in Asia.
However, the Game Market across Europe is tightly controlled. They are 'meant' to be eaten if that makes sense where as wolves, bats, cats are not. Unless 1 is captured when anything would do for protein. Most Games is shot on the run and not kept in cages for weeks on end. So is as fresh a source of protein as it is possible to get. I was raised on pigeon pie ;-). Dad shot as necessary to put extra meat on the table, we didn't have a fridge in the 1950s so it had to be fresh.
Sadly the Chinese go their own way ........ with no building regs., a high level of human abuse :'( but still the 1st World buys from them?
Don't know about tightly controlled. What about the catching and eating of song birds, in Malta and France. Supposed to be illegal but still goes on.
The virus is not passed on from cooked Bush meat as the cooking process kills it. Touching the animal is enough so a child picking up a dead bat could do it.
The Spanish Flu of 1918 actually originated in a army camp in America. Pigs were the source there.
An outbreak of the plague in 19th century California was caused by white farmers catching and killing Ground Squirrels. It was wrongly blamed on the local Latino population so nothing has changed much.
Shadyglade, "nothing much has changed" - meaning what in the context of Covid-19?
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Exactly what I said. There has been no scientifically based conclusions for the source of the outbreak. Just speculation.
The last foot and mouth outbreak and BSE were both caused by bad practice in our own farming industry. Then there was the horse meat scandal, remember that?
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The UK is just as guilty of enabling animal cruelty in the name of religion. Every food animal has to be stunned before death except for halal meat, they have their throats slit while fully aware of it.
IMO if you choose to live in someone else's country you abide by their morals. Only in the UK does 'religious freedom' come above our own values.
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Exactly what I said. There has been no scientifically based conclusions for the source of the outbreak. Just speculation.
Shadyglade, so what's your 'well informed' opinion of origin of Covid-19 then?
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How am I any more informed than anyone else. We have to wait for the scientists.
Wet markets exist all over the world. It may or may not have been the exact source. We have to wait.
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The last foot and mouth outbreak and BSE were both caused by bad practice in our own farming industry. Then there was the horse meat scandal, remember that?
Absolute bullsh*t. Foot and mouth was brought in by infected meat. If customs hadn't let it in we couldn't have had an outbreak.
BSE was caused by infected brains in animal feed. The label on a bag of feed says x% protein, it doesn't say where it comes from. Animal products are now banned in cattle feed, they weren't then. No one knowingly fed infected brains to their cows, why would they risk their own livelihood?
Just a suggestion but when you don't know what you're taking about it might be better to keep quiet.
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Please don't tell me what to do.
It came from feeding meat and bone meal to calves. That happened here and were it was sourced won't charge that fact.
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You said it caused by bad farming practice. It wasn't as you have now admitted, it was the bad practice of the feed manufacturers. Perhaps you've never read the label on a bag of feed, I have.
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.......... and I have. How many people realised that the basis of most animal feed was fish meal until recent years? I won't eat turkey having smelt one cooking ...... it smelt of fish >:(.
The last F&M outbreak happened due to a farmer feeding old food stuffs [can't remember exactly what it was] which should never have been on his farm. It was initially thought that a thrown away ham sandwich was the cause ......... which said to me that none of our food is good enough for human consumption, but that was discredited eventually.
However - song birds are not 'game' . It is illegal. Which is another reason why I never wanted to be in Europe but I digress ::)
It appears that the incubation is 2 weeks? Is that now certain?
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Err... how does it help any to argue the toss about where CV originated??
Let's just get on with slowing the infection rate.
Hi girls,
To prevent 'novel virus' outbreaks from zoonotic sources, which is certainly going to happen according to The International Society for Infectious Diseases.
Go vegan, people.
BeaR
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;D. shan't ;D [is that the correct spelling]
It is a rare event. If the ISID stopped the source of infections it would be less likely to happen.
It does light up the fact how many people were flying round the World 24/7 I had never heard of that place in China until this outbreak and there were several thousand in and out of there daily.
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Don't forget the Black Death happened without the aid of Easyjet.
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The decision after consideration is taken with the interest of everyone, visitors, members of staff and our social responsibilities.
We are in the unknown, we don't know what the future for the zoo will be.
Will we survive? When will we re-open? Will we have sufficient funds to continue??
Colchester Zoo has faced long-term closures before, having had to combat a Foot and Mouth Disease outbreak in 2001.
Coronavirus will strike anywhere, anytime and of course it is aimed at humans not animals, so hugely different to FMD,? the letter continues.
During FMD we were also closed for weeks, we recovered with the help of our amazing supporters.
I recall people sending donations, children breaking their piggy banks and donating whatever they had to the zoo".
Rats Shadyglade ........... ?
Can anyone explain how people being admitted to Hospital have the virus but not all will have been tested :-\. Surely it's by testing that true figures are found? I put a search in to see how many affected in areas across the UK and the cop out is 'not all will have been tested' :-\
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Err... how does it help any to argue the toss about where CV originated??
Let's just get on with slowing the infection rate.
Errrr ... an astounding viewpoint. The origin is SO important. Good grief.
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The last F&M outbreak happened due to a farmer feeding old food stuffs [can't remember exactly what it was] which should never have been on his farm. It was initially thought that a thrown away ham sandwich was the cause ......... which said to me that none of our food is good enough for human consumption, but that was discredited eventually.
Foot and mouth is rife in many countries but the UK does not import fresh meat from them. So this disease was brought into the country through illegal activity, either catering waste or carried in by an invidual. Look at the difference between how Australia deals with potentially infected animal products and the UK. It's still going on, not even a temperature check for people coming from China. The evidence for fmd was eaten so we don't actually know for definite where it came from. We did know it was in a few pigs before the market in Longtown that spread it up and down the country. If they'd implemented the stand still before it instead of after it would probably have remained an isolated case. Seems we learned nothing as we have been, and still are, allowing CV to spread throughout the country.
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A worthwhile read:
https://www.viva.org.uk/blog/only-dress-rehearsal
This is such a good read....
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I don't think this is an excuse to stuff veganism down our throats. Humans have developed as omnivores.
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Hi sheila99,
Not stuffing anything... just hoping humans keep evolving as a rational species instead of being stuck as prehistoric omnivores.
BeaR.
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No chance of that. We'll have destroyed the planet and ourselves long before we have time to evolve.
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No chance of that. We'll have destroyed the planet and ourselves long before we have time to evolve.
That's when science, technology and rationality have to step in. Human evolution is different from natural evolution. We can be proactive and accelerate it. I don't think many humans are well informed enough to work together to control this crisis, but maybe natural evolution is already doing the job for us via natural selection by a nasty virus.
BeaR.
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A worthwhile read:
https://www.viva.org.uk/blog/only-dress-rehearsal
This is such a good read....
Hi Night_Owl and Jari,
Thank you :great:
BeaR.
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A separate thread as I have suggested previously ;)
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No chance of that. We'll have destroyed the planet and ourselves long before we have time to evolve.
That is a shame, when we each as individuals can choose to make better choices right away... this virus just highlights the wrong doings yet again..
Sorry you are having a bad day Jaypo! X
Wave to BeaR and Night owl! X
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This virus outbreak must bring our Governments to heel. The UK is too lax on it's borders >:(
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I'm sad tonight. Went to see Mum and wasn't allowed in as they now have diarrhoea in the building. They took Mum's card and presents up to her room and brought her to the window to wave to me but she was crying her eyes out and looked really upset. She understands bits about the virus when I explain it but forgets it 10 mins later. It could be 12+ weeks before I see her and she will be totally bewildered. 😥😥😥
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Sending you hugs Pf.
thank you so much stellajane. X
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So sorry to read this PF it must have been so distressing for you both. It's made me sad just reading your post.
:foryou:
Lanzalover x
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Err... how does it help any to argue the toss about where CV originated??
Let's just get on with slowing the infection rate.
[/quote
To stop it happening again? Three serious respiratory viruses originating in the wet markets because eating snakes, bats, etc.. has not been outlawed.
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I'm afraid that China does not have a good record at protecting it's people so I wouldn't expect them to alter anything. Until the World stops buying from them :-\. This isn't the 1st time viruses have originated from Mainland China.
Start buying from your local farm and village shops, game dealers, butchers? The days of cheap food should be over.
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We are where we are. Just trying to support each other on a menopause forum. Not trying to put right the wrongs of the world.
I'm sorry I spoke.
You have as much right to an opinion as everyone else. When this is all over, I hope governments look at population control and very strict controls on borders. Countries are very overpopulated and this contributes to the current situation. Italy has 60 million residents. Any wonder the disease has spread? Australia is an island and has 30 million residents. We can shut our borders pretty effectively. We never hear from the refugee advocates anymore as I think covid-19 is bringing some clarity to certain issues. Most of our covid-19 has been imported, including a ridiculous situation where a cruise ship was allowed to disembark in Sydney and later found to have passengers and a crew member with covid-19. Other countries were not allowing cruise ships to dock.
We are going to have to change our attitudes to many things in the wake of this crisis. The Chinese MUST be held to account and must put steps in place to ban the sale of wild animals. The wet markets are places of incredible cruelty as anyone in the animal welfare sector will attest to (myself included). But not just China, as many asian countries have these disgusting markets.
Most importantly, we cannot keep populating our earth in the way we are. I read of an american woman who was complaining about how she would feed her 6 children. SIX CHILDREN!!!!! My husband and I had one very well planned out child as we wanted to be able to provide properly for him. It is irresponsible and selfish to keep having large families.
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The UK hasn't had closed borders for years. Staff were withdrawn over the years .......... so it is as an Island impossible to be completely secure. Coastguards have been amalgamated so that those on call don't even know the areas that they are supposed to be covering >:(. In an Ideal World but we no longer have control.
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Well said stellajane
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Teresa - try to relax. If you are worried about others, take the initiative. Move across because they be as worried as you are. By moving you are back in control.
Also try holding your breath as you walk by? Wiping down the handles of trolleys, doors, council bins after collection ........
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I am sure that I read that a relative of a Member has taken ill - has it been confirmed C-19 by blood testing or by symptoms ? Sorry can't remember where and I've done a search :-\
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Given the press conference from the First Minister of Scotland and Chief Medical Officer this lunchtime (which usually precede the conference by the Prime Minister expected at 5pm), I think it's time that everyone, everywhere gave their full focus to this very critical situation.
Whilst the menopause is horrid, I think personally that this forum should suspend posts except in general chat threads so that we can keep in touch and support each other.
Now is not the time to be asking a very overpressured NHS to help with HRT queries, or to be running around pharmacies yourselves looking for products which have been in short supply for some time. If you have a regular prescription and are able to get your HRT relatively easily, all well and good.
We need to remember that menopause is not a disease, but Covid 19 is. It takes lives - and yes, I know there will possibly be those who say 'but the menopause nearly cost me my life, I felt suicidal' and I appreciate that - but it can't physically kill you.
Stay safe, everyone.
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However: C-19 is unexpected. Lack of supplies didn't happen overnight and it is across the medical World - HRT is one medication that is in short supply. Where was the Government for the last 2/3 years about this?
As someone who suffers with depression and anxiety without medication, I wouldn't be here if I couldn't get it, if menopause didn't cause so many problems, we wouldn't be here anyway. For me depression is physical :-\
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You may well ask, CLKD.
But given that this is what we're dealing with right now, it's important to put things into perspective.
Clinical depression is a different entity to the depression, anxiety and mood swings caused by the menopause transition. True clinical depression is not a normal part of the menopause.
Those with clinical depression should receive appropriate treatment for this, and I gather from your posts that this is what you do receive. It's important to realise that the present circumstances could very well have a significant impact on those with mental health conditions and if you or anyone else here finds that their mental health is deteriorating at this time, then appropriate support and help should be sought.
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True clinical depression being what exactly >:( I have organic depression as well as being affected every month during my menstruating years. If a lady has depression or anxiety, regardless of causation, appropriate medication should be prescribed. Initially she may not realise it is linked to The Change. Many women have killed themsleves due to hormonal upheaval during menopause as well as having killed others and I suspect that with C-19, many will kill themselves due to money worries or isolation.
We have plenty of threads here at MM as well as discussing hormones: exercise, cycling, swimming, dog threads, gardening ...... browse round, join in. Most situated in 'this and that' room.
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So a high profile US Prisoner now tests positive for C-19 - WHF
Weinstein is being held at Wende Correctional Facility near Buffalo in upstate New York. Two prisoners at the facility tested positive for the virus on Sunday, an officer who did not wish to give his name told Reuters news agency.
Mr Powers told Reuters that several members of staff had been quarantined. He expressed concern for corrections officers who he claims lack proper protective equipment.
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Clinical depression is defined in the DSM. This explains, CLKD.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtml
Reproductive depression is a seperate entity. Not sure what 'organic depression' is. Was this diagnosed by a psychiatrist? I haven't seen that listed in the DSM.
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My apologies, CLKD. Organic depression is caused by a physical illness or brain injury. I didn't know that this was the cause in your case.
https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/jnp.1.4.398?journalCode=jnp
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Most I believe just want to support each other in getting through the everyday. We have to remember this is a menopause forum with many members struggling to cope with hormonal anxiety issues. Please let's look after each other.
I'm glad this message is finally getting through. I felt I had to abandon the boards, and the support I receive, early on in this crisis due to haranguing re: C-19. During this time, I had my Mirena out and really struggled with the sudden drop in hormones. I ended up in hospital at one point. It would have been so nice to have my concerns and very real fear acknowledged. Glad to see we've turned the corner with this now.
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I spoke to my neighbour from her garden to mine today. She looks very anxious and agitated. I think she has had mental health problems on/off since she was in her teens when she had an eating disorder. She is now 62. Last time she was hospitalised was during the 9/11 disaster and she completely flipped.
She said today she hopes she is not ?going mad again? because of this Coronavirus but things like this really affect her badly. Not sure what help there will be for people like her at the current time. She lives alone so she can't really share her concerns and it all builds up.
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Wrong - clinical depression is due to circumstances that a person is unable to alter
Organic depression is that - when the brain chemistry goes awry - many 'experts' won't recognise it but I have both
Depression may be caused by closed brain injury but is not causation - where *did* u get that idea from :-\
Why do you need to know who diagnosed my depression :-\ .........
Suggest that your neighbour contacts MIND Charity and her GP. There is support out there ........ get her to access it sooner rather than later. I was on edge in the night - in the day I'm OK.
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:thankyou: stellajane
I watch now, BBC update. As well as selling/buying houses etc..
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OK. I'll leave you all to it. Good luck, and stay safe.
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Sending you a big hug Pf x
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When I read Gerry's post I understood what she was saying but when you are in the middle of a horrendous menopause with depression whether it be clinical hormonal organic it is all the same when you are feeling so hopeless and wretched and a muted version of yourself. You tweak the hrt you start an anti depressant and then you have to wait it out trying to be hopeful that it will pass but not quite believing it will because thats what depression tells you. Armageddon could be going on outside and feels like it is but when you are in this horrible time you are overwhelmed by how you are feeling and will you ever get better. This forum has been a life saver and makes you feel not so alone when the rest of the people around you seem to be sailing through the menopause and you feel bad for feeling bad.
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:thankyou: Bring me Sunshine :foryou:
I have a thread somewhere 'My Depression' I think I called it. Gerry's not been on the Forum very long :-\ ....... maybe she could read that as well as others where depression and anxiety have been fuelled by hormones?
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Bring me sunshine thank you 💐x
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🦹♀️ ⬅️ 😆😂
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I was just wondering - whatever am I going to look like in 12 weeks time with hairdressers closing?
Eek!
Stellajane - I was just reading that some shops have sold out of hair dye because people are panicking about their hair going grey if we go into lockdown! last minute hair appointments and nail bar appointments have soared today apparently.
I have to say I haven't thought along these lines. My son says the nation will look like prehistoric people at the end of all this with all the hairdressers closed too.
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;D. I have sharp scissors which are busy with trimming the daily paper ;-). I can lend them - or maybe buy pony sheres? [sp]. Poodle parlour. As long as my fringe doesn't get into my eyes ???
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I'm thinking the same Stellajane, my fringe will be well over my eyes, it will be so thick, in other words I'm going to look like a highland moo or one of my sisters sheep!
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Hi CLKD made my laugh about the scissors!
The thread you mentioned earlier for any one suffering depression/anxiety at the moment was called "Effects of Depression" aug 16 2011(you must have been on this forum forever!!) it is so good to read and echoes everything I am feeling the isolation the just wanting to be "me" again, and when will it pass and will it ever pass this time. The message that comes across is that: it is conquerable and will pass, with the right help. Its such a good read and I think should be bumped again for anyone suffering at the moment particularly in these times we are living through.
Thank you for highlighting it and being so honest telling your story, not easy but you survived.
Thank you.
Good look with your hair!
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Well the lockdown begins for 3 weeks. Let's hope people follow the rules.
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thanks to the stupid idiots who couldn't stay in over the weekend and all the idiots who left the cities and came to the country we are now in lockdown.
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I am losing patience with the GOvernemtn. Not closing Parks but insisting on people keeping a distance when out walking. The weekend's outings showed that the public simply aren't listening.
Buying on line - yeah right. 3 weeks waiting list in our area and that's for vulnerable people >:(
I'm off shopping in the morning, anything you need? I need crossword books initially ..........
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Like in school when the whole class was put in detention because of few idiots misbehaving . I feel really stressed and a bit frightened.
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I am losing patience with the GOvernemtn. Not closing Parks but insisting on people keeping a distance when out walking. The weekend's outings showed that the public simply aren't listening.
Buying on line - yeah right. 3 weeks waiting list in our area and that's for vulnerable people >:(
I'm off shopping in the morning, anything you need? I need crossword books initially ..........
They are closing parks and play areas.
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We are out in the sticks, but a main A road runs nearby and to say it's busy is an understatement as it's usually fairly quiet bar lorries this time of night x
We stayed in all weekend and stuck to the rules, yet like you say the few selfish ones spoil it for all the others, I admit I had to ask for meds today as I'm not coping at all x
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That's what they are for Countrygirl, there is no point in suffering. Hope they make a difference really soon.
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Oh so sorry Countrygirl, really hope the meds you've been given help.
I'm glad we can still go for a walk, otherwise my I won't have any sanity left. Like you Jaypo those idiots at the weekend ruined it for everyone, they just didn't get it >:( I'm lucky whenever I go for a walk from my front door I never see anyone, but now who knows..
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We are out in the sticks, but a main A road runs nearby and to say it's busy is an understatement as it's usually fairly quiet bar lorries this time of night x
We stayed in all weekend and stuck to the rules, yet like you say the few selfish ones spoil it for all the others, I admit I had to ask for meds today as I'm not coping at all x
Can I ask please what you are taking. Like you it's too much to take in and really panic stricken x
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Am I the only person who knows anyone who's got it/had it?
I don't know anyone who has definitely had it because they're only testing the ones bad enough to be in hospital. But I have one friend whose husband and daughter have had the classic signs. She is high risk, but fortunately seems to have avoided it so far (they are all in the same house, but have been keeping to separate rooms)
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We are out in the sticks, but a main A road runs nearby and to say it's busy is an understatement as it's usually fairly quiet bar lorries this time of night x
We stayed in all weekend and stuck to the rules, yet like you say the few selfish ones spoil it for all the others, I admit I had to ask for meds today as I'm not coping at all x
Can I ask please what you are taking. Like you it's too much to take in and really panic stricken x
Can I ask why you are so panic stricken? 80% of people getting this illness will have a mild condition. Of the 20% who get a more serious illness, only 5 % will require hospital admission. We are all in the same boat here and just have to find a way through it. It still has around a 3% mortality rate, except for Italy which has a very high elderly population and they are 60 million people packed into a small land mass.
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Our son, who's living with us temporarily, has just realised he's going to be stuck indoors with us two for 3 weeks.
Not a happy prospect for any 40 year old.
He has my total sympathy.
Am I the only person who knows anyone who's got it/had it?
I don't know anyone yet. We are pretty rural so perhaps that's why.
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The seemingly logical step of reducing the tube service has had unfortunate consequences. You can't reduce close personal contact when the trains are crowded due to a reduced service.
No dot joining.
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Our son, who's living with us temporarily, has just realised he's going to be stuck indoors with us two for 3 weeks.
Not a happy prospect for any 40 year old.
He has my total sympathy.
Am I the only person who knows anyone who's got it/had it?
Sadly I know someone locally who died in hospital last week. He was 80 with a heart condition but was still living a full life. Also someone who works for the same company as my son but he's making a good recovery and should be discharged soon.
Taz x
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The seemingly logical step of reducing the tube service has had unfortunate consequences. You can't reduce close personal contact when the trains are crowded due to a reduced service.
No dot joining.
The tube is also affected by staff shortage due to Coronavirus, so I suppose they couldn't run a full service even if they wanted to. I don't know what the answer is.
JP x
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Social distancing? From my window I can see workers from the water authority supposedly working but standing side by side chatting.
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Sadly - because the Government asked a few weeks ago for a restricted train service in the South: but Companies demanded employees continue working : people were crammed together. NO OTHER industry would be allowed to have standing passengers >:(
YF seems to have disappeared? Guest status :-\
I would like to say a big THANKS to BRING ME SUNSHINE :foryou: 4 your kind words yesterday
My sister tells me that her son 'has got it', his brother tells me it's a cold ::)
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Personally I hope yellowflower stays. I didn't know daigous existed until she mentioned them but they are obviously a problem in Australia. If there was a legal route for these goods daigous wouldn't have a market. Another symptom of the inequitable balance of trade most countries have with China. She's there and we're not so it's likely she knows more about than we do.
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I'm frustrated. I want to get a repeat prescription. Normally I order online then collect the prescription from the surgery, then go to the pharmacy. Because of the difficulty in sourcing hrt patches, I haven't opted to have my prescription sent to a nominated pharmacy before. But now I will have to as you can't go into the surgery without an appointment. However, you need authorisation from the surgery, but I can't get through on the telephone and email replies are automated without advice other than to go into the surgery with identification. :cuss: I'm already thinking I will not be able to carry on with HRT patches as I can't go here and there to source them. The online company I approached can't get them and the surgery wont give me a generic prescription.
We can't get any shopping delivery or click and collect slots, so DH will have to venture out. I dare not as I have asthma. They say our county is as bad as London for virus cases.
Good news is that my glasses have arrived at the opticians. They aren't open, but will be there today, but not tomorrow. So DH will collect them . Of course they won't be able to ensure they fit. But better than nothing.
All these problems we don't normally have. Time consuming and stressful.
Just spoken to my son, a paramedic in Maine, USA. He was on his way to work. He often rings on the hour long long drive. Things are ramping up over there. More serious calls. They have to gear up before going out, which he hates. They never know if patients have covid 19 until later of course. They are lucky to have my son.
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I've just heard a friend (ex-colleague) has it, she says she feels truly awful and is coughing up blood 😒
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I've just heard a friend (ex-colleague) has it, she says she feels truly awful and is coughing up blood 😒
How horrible. Hopefully she's being well cared for in hospital. :hug:
Taz x
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She's not in hospital Taz2 she can't go in until she's given the go ahead, a nurse is ringing her 3 times a day to monitor the situation- I think that must be how the nhs are coping, only taking in the urgent case. Very worrying times, we all need to pull together x
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How much blood? Is it fresh: i.e. red : in gushes or small specks which could probably mean a vessel has broken by continual coughing. Blood mixed with salvia looks like there's a LOT >:(. Is she vomiting blood from lower down? Good that she is being monitored.
Ju Ju - get DH to go to the surgery - they may be, as many are, taking temps B4 admitting anyone through the door or dealing through car windows. Get him to take a note in a clear i.e. plastic food bag which can be read through the plastic to leave there with your requirements and phone number on.
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I don't know CLKD but she said a lot, I don't want to bombard her while she's ill, but I will check on her (via WhatsApp) every day as she lives on her own x
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Blood loss can seem a lot but there are ways of coughing up blood that may be worse than others if you get my drift? It's scary living alone too! Give her a hug from
me ;-)
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I'm frustrated. I want to get a repeat prescription. Normally I order online then collect the prescription from the surgery, then go to the pharmacy. Because of the difficulty in sourcing hrt patches, I haven't opted to have my prescription sent to a nominated pharmacy before. But now I will have to as you can't go into the surgery without an appointment. However, you need authorisation from the surgery, but I can't get through on the telephone and email replies are automated without advice other than to go into the surgery with identification. :cuss: I'm already thinking I will not be able to carry on with HRT patches as I can't go here and there to source them. The online company I approached can't get them and the surgery wont give me a generic prescription.
We can't get any shopping delivery or click and collect slots, so DH will have to venture out. I dare not as I have asthma. They say our county is as bad as London for virus cases.
Good news is that my glasses have arrived at the opticians. They aren't open, but will be there today, but not tomorrow. So DH will collect them . Of course they won't be able to ensure they fit. But better than nothing.
All these problems we don't normally have. Time consuming and stressful.
Just spoken to my son, a paramedic in Maine, USA. He was on his way to work. He often rings on the hour long long drive. Things are ramping up over there. More serious calls. They have to gear up before going out, which he hates. They never know if patients have covid 19 until later of course. They are lucky to have my son.
I suspect that I am going to have the same problem with patches. I haven't quite run out yet but, when I do, I don't want my prescription for it to go to Boots because they still can't supply as far as I know.
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No rubbish collection. Just went for walk and saw a council worker trying to clear the strewn rubbish away. She said 50% of refuse collectors off and rising. No word of when it will be collected. Do you think this is one of the things the army can do?
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Should have been brought in weeks ago Tc
I stepped out of my back door and my mobile pinged. Personal message from the Government to tell me to stay inside :o talk about Big Brother ;D. [shan't] ;)
How did Boris get my mobile number 8)
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Sorry to hear that Perinowpost - how scary. I hope she has phoned 111 or 999 and been taken to hospital? Sounds like she needs specialist care.
My daughter and son-inlaw have been in isolation in London for a week with another week to go as son-in-law developed a bug but they have no way of knowing if it's CV or not. He's had whatever it is midly - a cough, fatigue, aches and pains but says no fever although they don't have a thermometer and you wouldn't know if you had a low fever really. If he does have it then he is lucky as one of the mild cases. As London is the epi-centre then it is more likely than not to be CV since numbers of actual cases are probably 10 x the confirmed or more.
I agree about YF - I'm glad she's gone for whatever reason - I commented on the other thread.
We need to keep it kind and save our anger for the virus and our sympathies for those who are ill or bereaved...
CLKD my husband had one of those messages - are they sending to everyone? You don't fall into the special category do you? Nor does my husband - except he is over 70 but I thought it was the few that needed shielding who were getting written to - or maybe that's a message from NHS. Perhpas they are writing to everyone thinking people would take more notice of a personal message. Of course we are still allowed to go outside and even for a walk and garden unless in one of those very vulnerable groups (COPD and severe lung conditions, some current cancer treatment)
Hurdity x
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Of course I am SPECIAL :lol:
I think that Perinowpost's friend is being checked regularly by a Nurse - she does tell us that in her 2nd missive.
What no one seems to know is how long an 'exercise session' actually is and if there's so much DANGER from being close to others, the Government has been remiss in not closing down rail travel completely. Taxi drivers can be dedicated to essential workers as most of their trade has dropped off!
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:) clkd. They said a walk a day didnt they?
My nephew went quarantine on Friday and yesterday my sis and niece too. They dont live together but started coughing and temperature yesterday. We were all together Sunday before last. My sis feels particularly unwell. With my elderly parents in isolation I'm the only one who can go out for shopping. Just went walk and stopped at my local shop. Woman behind counter coughing😮
Hope your friend is o.k perin .
X
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I didn't buy anything extra last week so no stockpiles. Today I needed fresh meats, fruit and veg and salad stuff and eggs. I could see from our house that our village shop was heaving with people so I decided to go in the car to Aldi. It was brilliant, very quiet and they had everything I needed. Cards only and you have to shop alone unless you are taking a disabled person. You also are not allowed to pack your bags at the checkout so I wheeled mine out to the sunshine and packed it there.
I drove past our local small Co-op and it looks as though they are only letting one person in at a time. A member of staff was standing outside.
Went into Boots and bought paracetamol no problem. Just one pack of 32.
That should be me done for a week now. My house looks like a greengrocers! ;D
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Whilst the menopause is horrid, I think personally that this forum should suspend posts except in general chat threads so that we can keep in touch and support each other.
Now is not the time to be asking a very overpressured NHS to help with HRT queries, or to be running around pharmacies yourselves looking for products which have been in short supply for some time. If you have a regular prescription and are able to get your HRT relatively easily, all well and good.
GerryL - this is a menopause support forum. Why would we close threads relating to menopause? With the health service under pressure we can probably be of even more use than usual in imparting information and reassurance to people.
Heavens - I missed this. Just catching up before I head back out into the garden.
What a thing for a new member to suggest?! Of course stellajane - we need this forum more than ever and many members will still be seeking answers to their menopause and HRT queries especially with services being hard-pressed elsewhere. While we cannot replace medical advice, the hive mind can at least offer some suggestions in terms of HRT as well as menopause (and other) support. The rest of life will carry on and it would be tragic for women to ignore particular worrying symptoms which could turn out to be serious because there was nowhere to post and ask!
OK. I'll leave you all to it. Good luck, and stay safe.
Sounds like the right thing to do in the circumstances GerryL and good luck to you too!
Hurdity x
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Just had a message from Mum's care home to say they have set up Skype and Facetime so I will be able to use that with Mum!! I posted her a card yesterday so I will probably do Facetime later in the week. Staff will sit with her and help her.
Did anybody else see about some care homes in Spain where soldiers went in to disinfect and found dead residents! Truly awful news.
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Didnt see that PF. Good you can facetime your mum.
I missed that comment too. Quite right stella Jane. Gerry. You have realy mis read the crowd with that comment.
X
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Pennyfarthing that's good news for you.Have been thinking about you and your mum.x
Oh thank you Teresa. My Mum's middle name is Teresa by the way and spelt like you, without the H.
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Cromer Pier has had to be fenced off today as people are still flocking there! It is totally ridiculous now.
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I'm frustrated. I want to get a repeat prescription. Normally I order online then collect the prescription from the surgery, then go to the pharmacy. Because of the difficulty in sourcing hrt patches, I haven't opted to have my prescription sent to a nominated pharmacy before. But now I will have to as you can't go into the surgery without an appointment. However, you need authorisation from the surgery, but I can't get through on the telephone and email replies are automated without advice other than to go into the surgery with identification. :cuss: I'm already thinking I will not be able to carry on with HRT patches as I can't go here and there to source them. The online company I approached can't get them and the surgery wont give me a generic prescription.
We can't get any shopping delivery or click and collect slots, so DH will have to venture out. I dare not as I have asthma. They say our county is as bad as London for virus cases.
Good news is that my glasses have arrived at the opticians. They aren't open, but will be there today, but not tomorrow. So DH will collect them . Of course they won't be able to ensure they fit. But better than nothing.
All these problems we don't normally have. Time consuming and stressful.
Just spoken to my son, a paramedic in Maine, USA. He was on his way to work. He often rings on the hour long long drive. Things are ramping up over there. More serious calls. They have to gear up before going out, which he hates. They never know if patients have covid 19 until later of course. They are lucky to have my son.
I suspect that I am going to have the same problem with patches. I haven't quite run out yet but, when I do, I don't want my prescription for it to go to Boots because they still can't supply as far as I know.
Well I think lve got myself in a mess now with my prescription. The online pharmacy was giving me contradicting info, saying they couldn't get certain items and couldn't get authorisation from the GP. No replies to emails. So I managed to eventually get in contact with someone at the surgery and got authorisation to have my prescription sent direct to a pharmacy who have put my patches to one side for me. Then I deleted my account with the online pharmacy so I could set this up, then found that the everything had been issued(I had checked earlier). So now I dont whether the stuff will be sent to me and I can't get a new prescription because it is already issued. I've emailed the company to say what I have done. As they aren't responding normally, I don't hold out much hope. I shall see if the stuff is actually sent, though the info was that it hadn't been. If I don't get them soon, more phone calls to the surgery. I'm so stressed and tearful and not about the virus!
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Three weeks is the length of time we've been asked to stay at home, for some people living alone it's a very long time :-\ but if we don't all do it the time will be extended. We all want this over but if people won't listen I think we should get stricter now, let's not keep prolonging the amount of time, do it now.
We need to learn from Italy and Spain, we need to take the drastic action now and I think we need a curfew put in place after dark, I've heard of some business premises being broken into locally >:(
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My Italian teacher is furious that the government is not learning from the mistakes made from other countries.
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I don't it's to difficult, especially if you have a garden. We will just have to busy ourselves with other things.
My husband has discovered that our local garden centre is doing deliveries. Phew, at least that means he will be occupied. We are not sure about the allotment though. Will going there count as once a day exercise, and be allowed??
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Allotments should flourish! People are well able to keep a distance, surely.
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Yes, that's what I said.
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As long as garden centres have plants and seeds? I fancy growing pumpkins again but we usually buy plants :-\
How can anyone leave others in-need to die :'( :-\ ....... the news from Spain is truly awful.
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Cromer Pier has had to be fenced off today as people are still flocking there! It is totally ridiculous now.
Seriously what the hell is wrong with people, what don't they understand >:(
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We are allowed to go out for exercise :-\ but should not be engaging or close to others ......... so why are trains still running?
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I feel for the key workers as they have to go to work to keep the country going and being at risk everyday and yet keep seeing on the news stories of others treating rules with disdain and places having to be closed and knowing the shutdown will become longer and stricter if things don't change x
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Just seen the appeal for volunteers to help vulnerable people. I would happily volunteer, as I cannot visit Mum at the moment, but I don't understand how it works out.
I thought it just meant shopping and leaving it on the step but an ?expert? on TV confirmed that it can involve going into their homes. How can this be right if you or the householder could be carrying the virus or even have it? I can't go and see my Mum but I could go and visit a person I know nothing about.
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You can choose which of the categories you want to be involved in. There is a "telephone contact" one which means you give support over the phone to someone who is lonely etc. Its here https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-24/coronavirus-how-to-become-an-nhs-volunteer-responder-amid-covid-19-outbreak/ Quite a few of my friends have signed up already. I'm having a browse through it.
Taz x
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You didn't go after him :-\. It's the older people not connected to the internet who will feel lonely. It may be eggs but also a chat for a while :-\
Has Boris cancelled train travel yet? Each essential worker in the Capital could have a dedicated Taxi for journeys: win win for both. Essential worker going directly to work and the driver gets a Fare.
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Oh jaypo :'(
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Beccause we don't. We aren't used to interacting and can be wise after the event. Standing to consider is my problem and I can always be "I should have done that" afterwards so don't beat yourself up. If you recognise him next time ask if he needs any help ;-)
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Wise words
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Think of it that he went to another shop and got what he required. I know how these issues cling in my brain afterwards the I ought to have .....
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As an aside: many++ years ago a friend who was a chef ended up in hospital with unknown symptoms. It turned out the causation was typhoid. My friend has never left the UK, ever; but it was found to have been carried into the UK on dried fruit that had been washed in typhus water :o.
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The DOT said all Cars, vans and motorbikes which usually require an MOT test will be exempted from needing a test from 30th March for 6 months, but vehicle must be kept in a roadworthy condition x
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Prince Charles has CV. Camilla negative.
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Oh no!x
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OH still very poorly. He said it comes over him in waves.
Starts to feel a bit better, only for it to start all over again.
He's absolutely sweating buckets.
it's so hard to keep him topped up with fluids, as all he does is sleep.
I'm shouting up to him every so often and waking him to tell him to drink.!
The stress is starting to get to me now, although my son is absolutely brilliant.
I've just got to stay strong, I've MIL to look after too! If I sit for too long, I just want to cry!
🤞 this starts getting better soon.
Stay safe everyone. xx
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Prince Charles has CV. Camilla negative.
How come he got a test when most others can't? particularly as he only has ?minor symptoms?.
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Jillydoll I'm so sorry to hear he's still suffering with it and also to send you a big virtual hug 🤗 to let you know you're not alone and I'm thinking of you x
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The Prince was in contact with the Prince of Monaco a few weeks ago, they had a meeting across a table. So probably got it from Monaco! Why shouldn't they have testing :-\. Health Care is different North of the Border after all ;)
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Also as a meander - during WWII many were captives under the Germans or Japanese as well as intervened in camps on the Isle of Man. At least we can move around keeping our distances, we have access to food stuffs, hot water and fresh air. My FinL was a Prisoner in the Far East for 4 years. 4 me it is about keeping the mind occupied and taking half a day at a time.
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Why shouldn't they have testing :-\. Health Care is different North of the Border after all ;)
Not that different. They still only test in hospital cases here just like in England and Wales. Prince C got tested just as he is Prince C.
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Yep. I don't have a problem with that. Shows that he is human ;) but maybe he still has someone to go to the loo 4 him .........
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Prince Charles has CV. Camilla negative.
How come he got a test when most others can't? particularly as he only has ?minor symptoms?.
Anyone can get tested, if they are prepared to pay.
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Yep, Harley Street, about ?400, so i've been told, obviously there are plenty of other places too.
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Thank you who sent me best wishes and a hug. Much needed, thanx. xx
No, we?re in Birmingham.
I've just spoke to him. He said just when you think your beating it and starting to feel better,
it starts again. He said the pains, and aches from inside his body are something else. Then at the same time the sweats starts. Which are really bad. ( well now he might know what us ladies go through with meno) 😆. And with the sweats, he gets a bad headache. His temperature is still 38. Hasn't budged any higher or lower. He sleeps a lot.
I'm hoping he's going to turn the corner tomorrow, he's been like this since Sunday. xx
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Thinking of you and your OH jillydoll, I do hope he starts to feel a bit better soon. It sounds rotten :'( You take care.
JP xx
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No, not really. Well, I think it must do and that's when he starts to feel better, but it doesn't last long, and it all starts again.
I think he's lost weight, he's not fat, but he's quite a big bloke too, and he's just sleeping mostly. But I'm not concerned about that, as long as he drinks plenty.
All you can do is keep taking paracetamol. And hopefully he?ll beat it.
Thank you Joaniepat xx
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JD, it might help to give him some diaorlyte to rehydrate him. If he is sweating he will be losing a lot of body salts. The Diaorlyte will replace them and speed hydration. Might make him feel better too.
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These viruses can take their time to work through the body. If he is not better tomorrow will you ring for advice?
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OH HOW AWFUL - my idea of HELL :'(
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Jillydoll you need to look after yourself too. You need to be in the best condition you can be in case you get it too. They used to say not to worry about a fever if it was less than 100 but I don't know if that applies for CV. Not getting worse is probably the best sign.
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How certain R U jillydoll that it's C-19? Has it been confirmed with his co-worker? R U in touch with her to see how she is progressing? The pharmacist is the place to ask too.
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Sending love jilly. Hope he starts to feel better soon xxx
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Thanks to everyone who sent best wishes. Means a lot. xx
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Just caught up with this JillyDoll. Sending you loads of love.
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Thanx Elk. xx
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No, not just you. My DS was in the living room with me when it came on earlier, and i turned it over straight away. I just do not want to see it, or understand why anybody would want to film themselves either.
We all know that it can be very serious in some people and will sadly kill a huge number of people around the world, but for me watching that is a step too far.
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No, I agree. I've 'snoozed' several people on social media because I've got so fed up with constant 'you have no idea how bad it is' or 'this is what it's like to die from Coronavirus' videos. I don't think those clips are going to do anything to deter the people who keep breaking lockdown rules, but it makes everyone else stressed and anxious. And as stress impacts on the immune system, I believe for many people, it could actually be harmful to watch these things, since the stress will make them more likely to get sick.
I have to keep going out to work and also as a volunteer for the local support group, running errands for people who are self isolating. I KNOW I'm risking getting it every time I leave the house - I really don't need people constantly telling me how horrible it is!
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Many young people have the idea they don't have to take it seriously because if they get it will only be mild. It's a good thing if they understand they could be bad too.
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I understand the thinking behind wanting to show the reality from inside hospitals to those who flout the lockdown or may decide to try and break it early because they believe that covid is merely a cold. But then for those of us already following the rules or those who have to keep working to keep the country going we are doing all we can do.and for many it is just adding to the anxiety.
I have close family Who have fallen sick in the last week and are quarantined in their homes. Myself and rest of my family isolated. . I ca'nt help them. and having an anxiety disorder anyway I just worked myself up into a terrible state with it all and had a major panic attack. Being alone, It's not like if I escalate towards a breakdown I can do what I've done in the past and have my family step in. I have to protect .my mental health so I decided yesterday morning that I would limit what I watch and read.
. I watch the govt broadcasts and have a quick look at international round up. But i personally could realy do without the hours and hours of tv and radio analysis and speculation from every Tom dick and harry which seems to plague our media these days and has become horrendous during this crisis.
Keep up the good work dorothy. Stay safe.ladies Xx
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Stop watching Tc.
I just check online, once a day now, so I am informed but not saturated. As you say the horror stories are not good for our mental health. There is nothing we can do except follow the rules anyway. Try and distract yourself by doing ordinary things. I find lots of music helps.
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I have just deleted my news app and temporarily deactivated my Facebook account, as all the scare stories are making my anxiety almost unbearable
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I have been seeing on several sites that a loss of smell and taste is an early sign if covid 19. This is due to attacking the nervous system and destroying cells in the nose.
Also, more people seem to be reporting sore throats as well as the temp and cough.
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Thanks Stellajane. We will struggle but with the support of our wonderful childminding families we may just about get through it. Worked out finances until September ?it ain't pretty? but we will push through.
Sending loads of activities and things to parents with kids driving them mad this week, maybe they will appreciate us more! Ha ha I can dream.
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Tc - they have 'fallen sick'. There are lots of Winter/Spring bugs around every year. We are all hypersensitive to C-19 and I think that makes people feel worse than they might do if they could think 'it's the usual bug, it will pass'.
I had a headache last night but woke without symptoms, it's background - probably due to a combination of not drinking enough and busy dreams.
How's Mr jillydoll this morning?
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Yesterday my mum reminded me how unwell I was with a "bug" in February and said maybe I've already had it.
I looked back at my posts here and emails to a friend And indeed I had said that I had caught a bug. And said I thought maybe from being crammed into rush hour tube trains for 2 days. It wouldnt be the first time and my immunity isnt the best.
I had said I had a headache and cough. I was very tired and took to bed. I then had pain in chest and in my upper back between and under shoulder blades and my breathing was affected. I have mild astma which can flare up with a virus or cold. But it scared me as it was so severe. My doc said chest sounded o.k and the "bug" had probably brought on my astma. So it made sense and it all eased off within about a week. I said I was "like a furnace" . Not unusual for us meno ladies but I hadnt had flushes for months even with low E. I had just had mirena fitted and implant so I put it down to that. Which of course it might have been.
But.. The weirdest thing was I had realy bad unexplained pain in my legs right down to calves which started at same time. . . I was on here asking you ladies about it and whether it could be mirena. . I have never had such unusual pain and the onset was so sudden. . I couldnt sleep with it.. it persisted for a couple weeks then subsided then mysteriously stopped completely and hasnt returned.
The reason I'm saying this is I would be pleased if I have already had it and got through it because if we find out it provides immunity I would then be able to help my friends and family , particularly the older ones who may be isolated for a long time. and maybe i could even do some voluntary community work. Without fear of putting others at risk.
We realy need these tests. But it makes sense what the govt has said about it possibly doing more harm than good to test anti bodies until we know more and are sure the test is accurate. .
But my point is ordinary people like me (not a key worker) who had these symptoms but aren't sure, if we were tested (after key workers of course) and it turns out we are immune we could also then go back into the community and help the crisis effort.
Of course, atm we cannot assume weve had it. it would be dangerous to do so. We must all act as though we are NOT immune. And as I understand it there is not yet enough evidence to guarantee immunity even for those who have tested positive.
Just my thoughts.
Jilly. How are things?
Xxxx
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I don't think they've proved yet that if you've had it you can't get it again? Perhaps we'll get some clarity on that when the test is available, but it might be wise for anyone in a vulnerable group to be cautious.
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I think the pain in your legs was the mirena Tc as I had the same thing. Re the virus though my daughter and her family were all really ill before Christmas and all their symptoms correspondence with what they?re saying about C virus. We have all wondered if it's been about longer than we know x
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Absolutely sheila. I look at it as In protecting myself I am protecting others even for the fact that astma puts me in the vulnerable group.and as I live alone if I fell very unwell and needed help someone else would have to put themself at risk to give me that help. Whether it be medical or otherwise.
Perrin. During Jan and Feb I know of several otherwise fit and healthy friends who had sudden chest and breathing problems bad enough to take them to hospital. All were released after chest xrays. All have recovered well. But it does make one question how long? Knowing if people had it back then adjusts the timeline and maybe would go towards the quest to track and predict the spread. Also it might help in the research to establish if and how immunity happens. Those who had it first and recovered could be followed up for any new symptoms.
Stay safe ladies. Xxx
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Just saw a clip from that morning programme (Philip schofield,holly willoughby) they were looking through the window of their studio saying ....just look at that,all those people out walking,folk sailing,all those cars and I'm thinking,ermmmmm and how did you guys get to the studio,dr who's tardis? The hypocrisy in this country,why aren't THEY staying at home,I personally don't think their tv programme is a necessity
I agree jaypo. i wish Schofield would go into self isolation. he gets on my nerves and as you say their show is not essential.
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Well said Jay. I dont think it's a necessity either But the problem is THEY DO!! They have an overinflated sense of their own importance. They are hiding behind "keeping up morale" when the truth is without media exposure some of these poor needy celebs would wither and die !!
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I have never had much time for celebrities. Nothing to do with the real world at all. That's why I can't bear all those celebrity TV show like Strictly. Who are they all anyway, I've near heard of half of them.
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I think there may be something in that Tc. Jeremy Vine discussing it right now on radio 2. What I remember about daughter/families illness is just as they thought they'd got over it, it had a second wind and came back again. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it has been around longer than we know x
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It is essential in keeping people connected. For those who don't like day time TV, get into the fresh air? I think most presenters are collected by Company cars.
Any news from jillydoll over night :-\
we have threads about TV programmes and strictly ;)
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What I hate most about it is the way society has changed who they want to emulate. It used to be people who've achieved something - war heroes, explorers etc. Now it's (usually) people who look good with a big gob, no talent and dubious morals. I think I've got old. :(
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Hi everyone. Update on OH.
Had to ring 111 again as he's really poorly.
Couldn't get in touch with anyone there, was in a queue, but they didn't say how many in front of us, so we rang 999.
Told the man what was going on, he asked if he could speak to my OH, so I took phone into him. He asked him a number of questions on how he was feeling!
OH told him he had a temperature of 39, (which has gone back up) he was sweating profusely, really bad headache, no taste, no smell, bad aches all over body, with pains too.
He asked if he had any breathing difficulties, OH said no, but felt almost 'stuffed up?, but since the fan was on in the bedroom, it was a bit better. ....what he didn't tell him was, he was shaking, couldn't even put his glass down without quivering, and seemed as if he wasn't all there, if you know what I mean. Anyway, the bloke said, You don't need an ambulance, you don't need to go to hospital. Carry on with the paracetamol.
So it seems, as long as you have NO breathing difficulties, you manage at home. Full stop!
I've NEVER seen him so poorly. And we've been together 36 years. Yes, he's had flu before, but not like this. I'm giving him electrolytes, and plenty to drink. He told me, he's having nightmares when he sleeps, and really vivid dreams, and when he closes his eyes all he sees is flashing lights.
The doctor on Radio Two today said, You don't always get a cough with Corona virus.
But everyone thinks you do. So please be aware, Most people do, but some don't. Just like my OH.
Xxx
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I may ring em tomorrow.
They havnt even rang to ask how he is. Which I'm really p@**ed about!
After all the over time he's done for them too, when they've had no staff! 😡
Mind you, it shouldn't surprise me, should it?
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Oh JD I'm so sorry to hear he's got worse, it sounds awful for both of you, take care of yourself x
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Ohh he does sound poorly :-\
You are in a really horrible situation, but you've spoken to to someone , if they haven't reduced your anxiety could you phone your local doctors surgery ?
Keep being strong :)
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My suggestion. Ring your GP ASAP ......... who has his medical records. Nightmares happen when someone spikes a temperature: they are OK for a while then it shoots up. Is he cold when he gets the shakes, is it when the temperature begins to come down for a while? It could also be low blood sugar if he hasn't eaten. Do you have any Dextrose tablets?
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So sorry he is so poorly. :hug: Nightmares and hallucinations come with a high temperature. I would also ring the doctor and see if you can get a callback.
Would he have some clear soup to try and get some nutrition in him? Or maybe one of those vitamin drinks to see if that helps him to fight it off.
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Hot Bovril in a mug? Soothing. Not 'complan' though :-X :sick02: ;D
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Jilly. I'm so sorry. As littleminni says a temp can maybe cause the vivid nightmares, flashing lights. I have seen it happen before to loved ones with a high temp.
I wish I could say or do something to help. Sending love. Xxxx
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So sorry about your hubby JD. Not really a lot more you can do but continue with what you are doing and ride it out. If he gets worse though ring 111 again for advice.
Hope he starts to come out of this soon and remember to look after yourself x
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So sorry to hear your OH has gone down hill, Jillydoll. I was listening to Radio 2 earlier and Dr Sarah Jarvis pointed out that not everyone gets a cough! Hope you are doing ok, need to look after yourself distance :hug:
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Sending you a huge hug Jilly. I will be keeping you both in my thoughts x
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You may get different advice too ;-)
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So sorry to read this Jill. Such a worry for you. I haven't read all of your comments so I'm not sure when he became ill and what he's first symptoms were?
Taz x :hug:
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Just want to add my thoughts Jillydoll, hope he is soon feeling better xx
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My thoughts too and I also hope he improves soon.
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Oral rehydration recipe
In one litre of water 6 level tsps of sugar and half a level tsp of salt.
Important do not add more the stated amount of salt
Hope your husband soon improves Jillydoll.
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All of this just got real.
My daughters boyfriend's aunt, who is more like his mum, has just been taken to hospital with pneumonia after saying 10 days ago she thought she had Covid but last weekend thought she was on the mend. She has been put into a drug induced coma.
Daughter is in shock. Me too and I have never even met her!
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I am very sorry to hear that, Donna.
Jilly, holding you in my thoughts.
Xxx
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I think now, that I have it.
I've been trying to blame the recent switch in hrt patches, but I think that my return of meno symptoms has complicated things.
I have been bad for 3 to 4 days now. Sore throat, dry cough, muscle pain, overall weakness and the most crushing fatigue I have ever experienced.
If it weren't for the puppy, I would not have left my bed.
Luckily, I have been isolating in a bid not to catch it. So won't have spread it.
The interesting thing is that about, hmmm, 10 days ago, I had awful pain in one of my eyes for about 24 hours. I wonder, now, if that was the virus getting into my body.
Anyway, sending you all my love. Hoping other sufferers are doing ok. I'm on my own and scared shitless. Beaten cancer twice and this is the thing that's bringing me to my knees.
:'( xxx
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I think now, that I have it.
I've been trying to blame the recent switch in hrt patches, but I think that my return of meno symptoms has complicated things.
I have been bad for 3 to 4 days now. Sore throat, dry cough, muscle pain, overall weakness and the most crushing fatigue I have ever experienced.
If it weren't for the puppy, I would not have left my bed.
Luckily, I have been isolating in a bid not to catch it. So won't have spread it.
The interesting thing is that about, hmmm, 10 days ago, I had awful pain in one of my eyes for about 24 hours. I wonder, now, if that was the virus getting into my body.
Anyway, sending you all my love. Hoping other sufferers are doing ok. I'm on my own and scared shitless. Beaten cancer twice and this is the thing that's bringing me to my knees.
:'( xxx
Really sorry to hear that Pants46. It does sound like it from your description. Are you having any trouble with breathing? Do you live alone apart from the dog? Could a neighbour help with the dog and keep an eye on you in case things get worse?
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Hi everyone. Update on OH.
Had to ring 111 again as he's really poorly.
Couldn't get in touch with anyone there, was in a queue, but they didn't say how many in front of us, so we rang 999.
Told the man what was going on, he asked if he could speak to my OH, so I took phone into him. He asked him a number of questions on how he was feeling!
OH told him he had a temperature of 39, (which has gone back up) he was sweating profusely, really bad headache, no taste, no smell, bad aches all over body, with pains too.
He asked if he had any breathing difficulties, OH said no, but felt almost 'stuffed up?, but since the fan was on in the bedroom, it was a bit better. ....what he didn't tell him was, he was shaking, couldn't even put his glass down without quivering, and seemed as if he wasn't all there, if you know what I mean. Anyway, the bloke said, You don't need an ambulance, you don't need to go to hospital. Carry on with the paracetamol.
So it seems, as long as you have NO breathing difficulties, you manage at home. Full stop!
I've NEVER seen him so poorly. And we've been together 36 years. Yes, he's had flu before, but not like this. I'm giving him electrolytes, and plenty to drink. He told me, he's having nightmares when he sleeps, and really vivid dreams, and when he closes his eyes all he sees is flashing lights.
The doctor on Radio Two today said, You don't always get a cough with Corona virus.
But everyone thinks you do. So please be aware, Most people do, but some don't. Just like my OH.
Xxx
So sorry to read this Jillydoll. Really hope that things improve soon. Surprised that some patients don't get a cough given that the virus particularly affects the lungs.
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Really sorry to hear that Pants, hope symptoms start to improve for you soon :foryou:
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Sorry to hear that Pants. Please stay in touch if you can. Is there anything that makes you feel better at all?
Big hugs, EK.
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Fingers crossed for improvement today, Jillydoll and Pants. :hug:
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Gillingham FC have been given permission to open their canteen for NHS workers. This will enable them to get a hot meal after a shift, without having to shop and cook. :)
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Hope you start to feel better soon Pants. Make sure you keep up with your fluid intake. X
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Wishing you a speedy recovery pants.
Jillydoll, hope you husband is feeling better today.
StellaJane, thankfully My daughter has not been in contact directly with her boyfriends aunt for a few weeks.
Stay safe everyone.
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I have been noticing how many people are not following the coronavirus advice. A man who lives nearby is out all the time walking various people's dogs and then sitting with them on a bench up the road chatting to people and also going up his allotment to work.
My neighbour is going to the other end of the village to visit her sister, Brother in law and 2 adult nieces who have just arrived from London in the last week. She also goes out several times a day for walks instead of the once.
We currently have water board workers working nearby and I can see from my house that they are not observing the 2 metre rule. They stand around chatting and rubbing shoulders.
I complained to our shop/bakery that staff in there are serving bread and cakes and handling money without even wearing gloves. They have no markings on the floor either and people just stand right behind you. Seems to me they are raking in the money and taking no precautions to keep people safe.
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It's hard to remember the distance rule, particularly for those living in noisy areas or who may be hard of hearing.
Sorry about the Members here with people affected.
It's OK to walk dogs for people but everyone should be keeping a distance. It's OK to go to the allotment - keeping a distance. In Italy they aren't allowed to go out except for medications, food or a quick walk around the block - literally and have to carry identification and allowance to do even that.
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Allotment work IS allowed. If fact my husband was working on ours yesterday, and it is next door to a police officers plot, and she was also working.
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It is NOT allowed in Italy. This could happen here if people don't keep to legal distancing Laws. Why was a Police woman working on an allotment :-\
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Because it's her allotment. ::)
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Hi Everyone. Just thought I'd update you all. But first, thank you all for your kind wishes. Means a lot, and Jaypo, you had me in tears girl! xxx
Anyhow, we decided to ring the GP yesterday. His temperature was still high, and wouldn't budge, he was in such a state, saying Dont think I can carry on much more with this.
So we got a call back from our GP, ( who was working from home) she asked him loads of questions, and said it sounds like you've a Kidney Infection. !
He had bad pains in his lower stomach area and back. ( amongst the aches and pains of everywhere else too) so she sent him the strongest antibiotics she could.
She said if he didn't feel any better by 2pm this afternoon, I'd to ring back, and tell them.
She said it's hard to tell if it was actually this all along he was suffering with, or it's a complication of having covid19. Anyone's guess!
I checked on him at 5 this morning and then 8 . He said he feels a tiny bit better, but now he's zonked out again. So will check again soon. Whether that's a glimmer of hope, I don't know yet. He's been talking rubbish for days now, referring to his dreams, like they were true.
I'm so sorry to hear Pants is poorly. Rest Pants, as much as you can. we?re here for you. xx
And the same goes for anyone else who's feeling poorly.
Sending best wishes Donnadoobie. xx
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Fingers crossed he's on the mend :)
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It makes sense JD. I had the shakes with my kidney infection.
Hang on in there.
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Pants. Sending love. I hope you feel better soon. Keep your fluids up. Have you got enough shopping in?
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Thank you, x
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Thank you, x
First time on this thread - scary title.
Sorry you've been going through this jillydoll, you must have felt very alone and overwhelmed. It sounds like you are doing everything you can, well done.
Hoping your husband turns the corner soon - hang in there, you?re doing amazing :bighug:
Thoughts to pants and all those feeling unwell - one day at a time xx
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How are you today pants? I do hope you are feeling a little better. All the best people are going down with it, Prince Charles, Boris, you, me ..... ;D
Seriously though, do look after yourself :foryou: :tulips2:
JP x
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Boris Johnson has tested positive ! Mild symptoms apparently. On BBC news.
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I did wonder yesterday when Boris would go down with it, you wouln'dt think that a virus would be able to catch up with him!
At last jillydoll - someone who listened!!! :bighug:
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Allotment work IS allowed. If fact my husband was working on ours yesterday, and it is next door to a police officers plot, and she was also working.
We all KNOW allotment work is allowed but it takes the form of your one permitted session of exercise per day. It doesn't mean you can go dog walking 3 times a day, go shopping and then be up your allotment. People are twisting the rules to suit themselves.
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I wonder how many he has infected and whether his girlfriend is still in the flat.
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How did HE get it !?! and more to the point, how did he get tested when front line NHS Staff can't get a test!
have you improved Joaniepat?
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Matt Hancock also positive.
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How did HE get it !?! and more to the point, how did he get tested when front line NHS Staff can't get a test!
have you improved Joaniepat?
Yes thanks CLKD, back to normal apart from still coughing a bit, but coughs can linger >:(.
JP xx
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Thanks Salad. Don't blame you not coming on. Take care. Xx
Jay? I've told him your coming round to give him a bed bath, he said, Only if she wears the nurses outfit! .... ::) 😂🤣
Thanx CLKD. I really want to give that doctor who helped him yesterday a big hug. And to be fair, two different nurses rang too because they were so concerned. So a big thank you to them aswell. xx
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Hey JD, so glad he's able to see the funny side a bit. Hopefully, it'll all pass soon. Must be shocking though. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.
I go to my allotment, it's round the corner and up the hill from my home. I count it as my one exercise a day.
As for food, I think I must be in an extremely fortunate position. We have Hello Fresh and have done for some time. I don't know how long that will continue. I've been very grateful every Monday when the box turns up with 4 x dinners in it.
I panicked way before everyone else, like early / mid February. Shops were full then. My daughter (in London, has a back garden) thought I was a bit mental sending her loads of grow-bags and seeds. It's funny, in a weird way, my anxiety went into overdrive ... but yeah, as someone who went through a military coup in Nigeria, has lived in Israel under bombing and somehow got caught up in the Bosnian War, it's amazing how useful PTSD can actually be.
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So pleased things are improving JD. It's wonderful that you have had some positive help from your GP and nurses.
Don't neglected yourself though.
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That's fantastic news JD, so glad you got the G.P. on board - see ladies their not all bad... ;D
Hopefully he'll start to improve soon & then you'll have to play nursie :D
Cazi xx
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How does he know I have a nurses outfit......ask yourself THAT Jill ;D ;D ;D
I thought you'd got rid of that outfit Jaypo! it's far too short for you.
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Hi Diane - we have a dog breed thread too ::)
:rofl: littleminnie ....... now where did U C jaypo in that outfit ???
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My GP was very good with calling back when I needed some advice.
I hope everyone who is unwell starts to improve very soon. Kidney infections can cause delirium which is frightening.
I'm walking my dog everyday but driving a short distance to get to a very quiet place. My daughter has picked up the dog to take with her on her walk. The dog is in seventh heaven. We can't walk together as she doesn't live with us so that's not allowed.
Stay well everyone.
Hi Diane. Welcome! Just to say that driving to a space to exercise is no longer allowed sadly. Are you allowed to walk with your daughter under the 'no gatherings allowed for more than two people' rule?
Taz x :welcomemm:
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Chris Whitty also now self isolating. There will be no one left soon.
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Who is Chris Witty ? :-\
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Hi all
Hope you are all keeping well
I haven't felt 100% all week and suspected a urine infection so tried hard to flush out myself but today called gp to see if I can have ABs (I do suffer with these infections and often will get ABs from phone consults) anyway this gp wanted a sample so went through the rigmarole of taking one down there. Never heard from her again so logged onto my notes and see I have leukocytes +++ and blood and have been prescribed ABs so phoned pharmacy who confirmed my script is waiting for me to collect
I just hope I haven't left it too late and it's gone to kidney as I'm experiencing slight aches on my back now :-(
Keep safe x
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That's great news. Thank you. So many more interesting walks to drive to than just on the door step although it is far better to restrict movement I think to try to stop the spread.
Taz x
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Who is Chris Witty ? :-\
The Chief Medical Officer. He's been on TV a lot.
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Oh not him in the video which supposedly updates us daily ?
Annie - that sample MUST be sent to a Lab for testing. These results from a dip stick test are usual. It eons't necessarily mean an infection.
However, with the weekend approaching and knowing that for me ABs did ease symptoms of urine infections, plus pain relief, get them down you. Do make sure that you don't have vaginal atrophy which mimics urine infection-type symptoms really really well ;-). I would sit on the loo with a glass of sparkling water and a cuppa and pee .... it was the place I could be the most comfy :foryou:
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Oh not him in the video which supposedly updates us daily ?
Annie - that sample MUST be sent to a Lab for testing. These results from a dip stick test are usual. It eons't necessarily mean an infection.
However, with the weekend approaching and knowing that for me ABs did ease symptoms of urine infections, plus pain relief, get them down you. Do make sure that you don't have vaginal atrophy which mimics urine infection-type symptoms really really well ;-). I would sit on the loo with a glass of sparkling water and a cuppa and pee .... it was the place I could be the most comfy :foryou:
It says she's sent it for testing x
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Well done that GP so many don't! Hopefully the ABs will kick in by morning !
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Hi.
Cazikins! Ive played nurse that much over the years , my stethoscope knows it's self where to go by now ! 🤣😂..i agree tho, that doc of ours was brilliant, good call she made. xx
Good news ladies. Looks like his fever has broken. His temperature is down to 36.8 now.
He had a very bad afternoon sweating profusely, everything was wet through. ( and I'd just changed the bed too this morning) 🤨 he was still having bad dreams, and talking blah.
But now, after he'd slept for hours, he's much better. He looks better too. it's amazing how illness makes us look so different. He needs a shave and brush up, so maybe tomorrow. Well we?ll see. But I think he's on the mend. God, this has been so bad.
Thank god! 🙏🏻 xx
Annie, hope your AB kick in soon. Take it easy. xx
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Yes Jay, but littleminnies right. Your nurses skirt is like a belt. And with big bloomers on too, not a good look! 🤣😂🤣
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He's always liked big pants though to be fair! 🤣😂
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Difficult if one doesn't have anywhere to walk though. It is mainly to prevent accident victims taking up bed space etc..
That advice jaypo was issued initially and in some places the Poice are being really strict. Pity that they aren't that strict with members of the public that break the Law often >:(
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Apart from the risks of a RTA or idiots getting lost in the hills and needing mountain rescue please remember the countryside is also someone's workplace. Like many farms there's a footpath through our farmyard, anyone opening a gate is potentially leaving the virus on the gate for 3 days. Not only is it coming up to our busiest time of year with lambing and calving so we will have to work however ill we are but it will kill MIL if she gets it. She can't be completely isolated as she needs help with pills etc.
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Isn't it time to reinstate foot-baths etc. at Farm gates? Perhaps put hand wash out too though they could get knicked :-(((( ......... I try to carry a small bottle with me when walking in case I touch something a little fresh ::).
My nephew has been showing symptoms for over a week.
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Did somebody say 'big pants' ??!!
I'm here.
Glad the OH is a bit better this evening JD. That must be a huge relief.
Now is the time to take care of yourself. Catch up on your own sleep etc.
Love to you all. xxx
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Apart from the risks of a RTA or idiots getting lost in the hills and needing mountain rescue please remember the countryside is also someone's workplace. Like many farms there's a footpath through our farmyard, anyone opening a gate is potentially leaving the virus on the gate for 3 days. Not only is it coming up to our busiest time of year with lambing and calving so we will have to work however ill we are but it will kill MIL if she gets it. She can't be completely isolated as she needs help with pills etc.
My son was out cycling yesterday and in the middle of nowhere he said he saw a couple walking right through the middle of a field. This pandemic has robbed people of their brains.
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The rule is very vague. It says to stay 'local'. What is local?? A mile, 3 miles, etc., It's too wide open to interpretation.
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In Italy it means round the block. Of course like MK it's built on a block so out the door, round your block and home. Not even into the allotment. As well as having to carry documentation all the while but then, that's something the UK never picked up as necessary when part of Europe.
Neither does it suggest here how long an exercise session is meant to be.
Apparently the local police have been delivering tulips to some people - don't know why or how they were ordered but wouldn't 1 have thought that the Police have more important issues to deal with? It would freak me out if one appeared on my door step!!
C-19 hasn't stopped idiots setting fire to the Moors in Lancashire >:(
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That's brilliant news, JillyDoll. Really glad he's turned the corner. That must be a massive relief.
Re: the driving... under new powers the cops can now make this call. As others have said, it's about cutting down risks. We saw what happened when everyone decided to travel for their exercise, with or without dogs. Brighton wasn't best pleased when a ton of tourists turned up last weekend. Yes, we know the beach might be more interesting than doing laps around your cul de sac, but we really don't need this at the moment.
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Hope you soon start feeling better, Pants x
Jilly, so good to hear that things are improving, take care x
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A neighbour I spoke to on the phone today told me that the house opposite them is a second home and the owners had relatives from Leicester and London staying last weekend and they were out and about all the time and treating it like a holiday. It makes me sick! They come up here eating our food and crowding our shops and then if they need a doctor or hospital they could take one of our places. It wouldn't even occur to me to go to another part of the country. What don't people understand about STAY AT HOME!!?
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Oh, and also fuel security. World is in meltdown, so it's one way to informally ration it without panicking the population.
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If youre allowed to drive to the supermarket why would you not be allowed to drive to the park?
Pavements can be dangerous for some people to walk on, they need the safety of the park.
I thought they were referring to people who were driving for miles to beauty spots.
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Think I?ll be allowed to drive 40 miles to help my son move some stuff home?
He's lost his job so can't afford his rent and has to move back home. A couple of car journeys over the next few weeks will be required. I'm so anxious about it all. I will simply drive there put the stuff in my car then drive back. This is essential travel isn't it?
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I'm not sure whether we are supposed to be moving from house to house/area to area which is why house sales have been stopped at the minute as much as possible but I appreciate you need to help your son. My son was talking about coming home for a while but his brothers dissuaded him. We are in a position to help him with rent if he needs it. He is working from his room in his house share at the moment. I do worry for him being on his own. Did he lose his job through the epidemic as landlords are being encouraged not to evict due to inability to pay rent if a job is lost due to CV.
Maybe you could get advice? You need to protect yourselves and him as much as possible but our instincts are to have our children home with us...well mine are..but it's not always wise.
Taz x :-\
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The rule is very vague. It says to stay 'local'. What is local?? A mile, 3 miles, etc., It's too wide open to interpretation.
I think local is whatever distance you can walk from home and back without car transport. Or a short cycle ride. I have just read a post from someone in my walk group who went for a short bike ride yesterday via a local park. He saw a police car in the park and one of the officers pointed to the park exit and said "the cycle path is that way Sir".
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Blot - from the government guidance 'House moves should be delayed unless moving is unavoidable'. In other words, it's unavoidable, so you're fine.
I'm befuddled by the idea that somehow the rules are vague or there's a lack of information. For days now the gvt have been saying STAY AT HOME, PROTECT THE NHS, SAVE LIVES. I'm not sure how that can be misinterpreted.
The guidance was published on Monday 23rd March and is available here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
Difficulties only seem to arise where people seem to want to see if they fit into the 'exceptions' category, e.g. can 'travelling for work purposes' be expanded to 'travelling for exercising my dog purposes'? Or, does 'stay at home' mean 'leave home and go to my holiday cottage / caravan / for a walk in the countryside'? Or, does 'shopping for basic necessities' include 'shopping for non-basic necessities and having frequent little trips out'?
At any point where people are saying 'Oh but ...' what they're actually doing is refusing to stay at home, refusing to protect the NHS and refusing to save lives. I don't know what makes them think they're so important that they need to put the rest of us, including our front line workers, at risk.
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I'm really not being selfis here. I would rather he stayed where he is. He's in a flat share with two others and they are all moving out. Two of them have lost their jobs and the other is a student. Yes the job losses are due to cv but even if the landlord defers the rent for a while they will still have to make up the difference later if they all get other jobs. All the available supermarket jobs etc in the area were snapped up straight away. The 2 workers have tried all areas to find work but have been unsuccessful.
He's not doing it coz he wants to but he's being forced to. Not like he's moving to the country to a second home sort of thing.
Thanks Elk. It is unavoidable I suppose unless we had the means to fork out the rent for who knows how many months. I'm front line nhs as well so I'm really aware of putting anyone at risk. I just wouldn't do it.
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I understand completely Blot. I just wondered if he'd lost his job through CV as then he will eventually get eighty percent of his wage paid by the government if I understand it right. The lad who served me in the supermarket had moved back home when the uni closed. His mum and dad made him strip off in the porch and followed the instructions about washing his clothes etc. As you say if he really can't afford to stay where he is then it is essential travel. My son is finding it very strange living on his own in a house usually occupied by six. They all travelled back to their own countries a few weeks back.
Good luck with the moving
Taz x
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Thanks Taz. It was just a bar job and gave him just enough money to get by on so he would struggle.
I would much rather not have to do this and feel very bad about it. I will be very careful. I don't know of any other way of getting his possessions home as there are no removal people working and he only has the things in his room to bring back.
Tbh myself and hubby still go out to work and pose more of a risk to him than he does to us because of our jobs. Unfortunately neither of us can work from home.
This is sending my anxiety through the roof.
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It's difficult times Blot but your judgement call sounds right to me.
Good luck with the move and stay safe.
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I would suspect that this wouldn't be seen as an essential journey. Has he contacted the Landlord for advice? Could he store most of his belongings at the property therefore it will be 1 journey there to collect him home? After all the Landlord should be arranging for a deep clean of the total property B4 renting it again.
I think it's dreadful that people have spent ?K on buying and moving to be told to stop particularly as the Government's distancing role simply hasn't worked, especially at the TOP >:(. In a chain free move it should be possible to Complete even if one doesn't physically transport to another area. The housing market will slow due to people losing their jobs anyway.
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You?re fine blot,to me that IS essential
Just saw on the news it's now BRIEF exercise,for goodness sake,don't know if I'm coming or going with all this :-\
I thought it was only me that found it confusing. We will have to start a club. 'The responsible but confused club'
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My son came home a week ago, he lives/works 50 miles away, his work closed so he didn't need to stay. The main reason for him coming home was, if he was sick who would look after him, he lives in a shared house, we felt that if any if us needed care home was the best place.
If he wanted to come home and going to collect him was the best option, not using public transport, I would do it without hesitation.
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jillydoll any updates?
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I suspect they are saying brief as someone could go out on a bike for hours on end.
I havent managed to get out this week as too busy with work so hope I don't miss out before Ive got started! I will have a letter to show police for my work but obviously would not abuse that.
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CLKD it's not feasible to store his belonging at the property if the landlord is going to do a deep clean? How would that work? They would chuck his stuff away. Top and bottom of it is that they can't afford to pay the rent, regardless if the rent payments are deferred. They are still going to have to make up the shortfall later on.
I will just have to chance it and if I'm stopped then so be it. I'm not putting anybody at risk, I won't even go into the flat and will social distance all the way.
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Thanks Jaypo. I'm a nervous wreck at the best of times but I'm sky high with this. I really do overthink to a ridiculous degree 🙁
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Joanie, pants, jilly how are you all today?
Does anyone know what advice is about taking anti biotics right now? I mean for other less serious infections ? I'm so tired. Slept all day yesterday and found it hard to get up. Sore throat. I feel rough today. But I get bad sinuses and they've been bad for a couple weeks now.. I think its turned to infection I know by when I blow (blood streaked and nasty ) sorry if tmi. Normally once it gets like that doc gives me anti biotics. .
X
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Sorry.......blot :o I know if it was my daughter I'd be there in a flash
I feel mean now persuading mine to stay put but he's still being paid so money isn't an issue. He just fancied some home cooking ;D
Taz x
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Haha,not mean at all Taz,if he's being paid but maybe a bit mean not wanting to cook for him ;D
You must be a good cook! Mine wouldn't come home for my cooking!
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Thanks Jay. I will wait it out til Monday.
Xx
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Tc, I don't think there's any reason why you shouldn't take ABs for an ongoing or recurring condition. Hope you can get something to help.
JP x
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my friend on the coast just phoned me and said that their Parish Council has asked residents to tell them if any second homes in the village currently have people staying in them and they will inform the police. She said last weekend was ridiculous with a steady stream of caravans, cars and campervans going past her house all day long, busier even than in the height of summer. They have closed off all the car parks in the village too.
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How are you JP?
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I'm OK thanks, Tc. Still coughing a bit sometimes and still a runny nose, but OK otherwise. Sorry to hear you are feeling rotten. :tulips2:
JP xx
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Crikey - big brother is really watching then >:(
I think that the police have better things to do quite frankly, i.e. a lorry load of fuel was robbed near us the other night ..... probably red diesel that is collectable right now >:(. Public have been asked if we saw anything, well no - we are confined to quarters.
As for being stopped when out walking ........... I would cross the road as suggested ;-)
Blot - I obviously wasn't thinking straight ;D
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CLKD none of us are! 😁
One of the local chemists was broken into the other day. Absolute scum. So people waiting for medication couldn't collect it as the place was closed for a day which made the following day extra busy. The poor staff in there deserve a medal.
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Charity collecting food stocks for homeless etc. have been targeted in the early hours, that's where Police should be ...... reckon there will be more on the streets than for years!
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The police can't be everywhere CLKD ::)
I think that the police have better things to do quite frankly, i.e. a lorry load of fuel was robbed near us the other night
Charity collecting food stocks for homeless etc. have been targeted in the early hours, that's where Police should be
They have to prioritise - these are not normal times.
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When everyone else stays in the criminals come out. Mum said it happened during air raids.
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Northamptonshire police have asked people not to phone up to report breaches of the rules. Their phone line became totally jammed. It's a question of priority.
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When everyone else stays in the criminals come out. Mum said it happened during air raids.
Absolutely! And I expect the so called "blitz spirit " was a myth.
JP x
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Apparently Derberyshire Police can't decide which to Police - those in towns who are being told to go into the countryside, or those who opt to keep away from others by driving to the countryside who are being slammed >:(. It doesn't take long 2 become a Police State.
Photos showing Police with loud hailers aimed at one person :-\
Avoid people when walking so that they don't sneeze over you. This is the main cause of the Virus. The Police have promised that they won't be 'charging through garden fences to find out the IDs of people mixing ' - I don't have ID to hand anyway :-\ - another Law broken ?
I lost faith in anything we have been told when Boris et al went down due to not following their guidelines :-\ and Public Health England shot themsleves in the foot by telling the public that Boots will have self testing kits for sale. Well, actually. Nope. False news again >:(
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Actually, Boots are running a trial (its on the first few days) of drive through testing stations. Currently each one can test 600 to 800 people a day. Results in 24 hours.
But only available to NHS front line workers at the moment ... rightly so.
So progress is being made.
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So the tests aren't available to the public to buy ? as suggested by Public Health England.
Letters in the Telegraph make interesting reading.
I came on here to say something, of course, being menopausal - it's gone ;D
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Well that would be a start :cupcake:
Once it's gone it's gone :D
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What about those of us who don't have cars to drive through, how will we be tested?
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have a look at your local NHS or Public Health England jaycee to see which areas are being supported with drive through?
Do you feel it necessary for yourself?
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😁 bake! I have hundreds of homemade scones in the freezer now.
So it was you who bought up all the flour!
;D
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What about those of us who don't have cars to drive through, how will we be tested?
Initially the testing is for frontline NHS staff, and by invitation only. I believe it is for those self-isolating to find out if they actually have the virus.
JP x
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I'm befuddled by the idea that somehow the rules are vague or there's a lack of information. For days now the gvt have been saying STAY AT HOME, PROTECT THE NHS, SAVE LIVES. I'm not sure how that can be misinterpreted.
The guidance was published on Monday 23rd March and is available here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
Difficulties only seem to arise where people seem to want to see if they fit into the 'exceptions' category, e.g. can 'travelling for work purposes' be expanded to 'travelling for exercising my dog purposes'? Or, does 'stay at home' mean 'leave home and go to my holiday cottage / caravan / for a walk in the countryside'? Or, does 'shopping for basic necessities' include 'shopping for non-basic necessities and having frequent little trips out'?
At any point where people are saying 'Oh but ...' what they're actually doing is refusing to stay at home, refusing to protect the NHS and refusing to save lives. I don't know what makes them think they're so important that they need to put the rest of us, including our front line workers, at risk.
Ok, so my most ?local? shop is 9 miles away. If there was a 2 kilometre lockdown like there is in Ireland now, we couldn't shop.
I am not attempting to get out of the lockdown at all or fulfil my desire to travel the country. I am genuinely confused about what the term ?local? means? As I said, if I were to walk my dog as locally as possible, I would be coming into close contact with many other neighbours also walking their dogs locally.
I live in Suffolk. It is flat, there is absolutely no risk for anyone getting stuck on a mountain. And all the local walks are footpaths around fields. Everyone here has at least one dog.
If I drive two miles in any direction I see no other cars, no people, shops, pubs or garages. So yes, I am confused as to what it means for the risk of contamination if I choose to drive to more open countryside to walk my dog.
I live in the sticks!
I understand if you live in a town, city or even a village and I understand we can't have folk driving miles out if their local area to have a country walk. But I live in the sticks. So the information needs to be specific.
And fwiw, since the lockdown there are MORE people here in the lane outside my house walking dogs and children than ever before. So by keeping it very local they have increased the risk of contamination, surely?
Your most local shop is the one that's nearest to you. Your most local supermarket is the one that's nearest to you.
I walk my dog locally, I live in the middle of Brighton. I manage to do this without coming within 6ft of anyone else and it's massively densely populated. One way of avoiding contact, for example, is to go out early in the morning or late in the evening.
The reason for not driving isn't just about contamination (although even putting petrol in the car is a weak spot in terms of infection control), accidents (cluttering up the NHS), using resources that will likely be in short supply (fuel); but I guess most importantly it's because the cops aren't mind readers / don't have crystal balls - how on earth would they know who was popping a couple of miles up the road and who'd driven 10 miles to get out and about? So, blanket ban, easiest way to do it. Doesn't have to be fair. Doesn't have to be logical for 100% of people. Just has to have maximum benefit for maximum number and be resource efficient.
^^ Oh, and people have to be seen to not having an unfair advantage. Panic, along with civil unrest, is a real danger. Folks living in tower blocks in London, queuing three hours for food, with a 5,000 bed exhibition arena for a hospital, and swimming pools being converted into temporary morgues, aren't going to really appreciate seeing pictures of the waxed jacket brigade. The cops struggle to keep a lid on it at the best of times. If we're all in it together, people have to believe that.
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😁 bake! I have hundreds of homemade scones in the freezer now.
I I might do similar soon but hesitate because my current lack of exercise compared to usual will lead to .me putting on weight!
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The Police in the North are using drones and Numberplate Recognition technology to find out where people have driven from . A bit OTT when we are being told to keep out of the way of others :-\. Under the State of Emergency rules do not have to go to Law until after the crisis is over. ........ though many are being put forwards when Government comes back after recess.
Town and gown will never agree. Town don't have to walk anywhere far, have shops close by, even in these circumstances. In the countryside we have to drive to get food if there isn't a PO or village shop :-\. My nearest big towns are 12 miles away and Sainsburys further ...... two towns 4 and 7 miles away which means driving. Paying to park. Shopping and driving home. Can take as much as 4-5 hours all told. Even to the shop in the village should we be buying heavy items either for us or the neighbours, this is normal in usual times if anyone shouts across 'can you get x, y, Z " ..... there's never been a 'pop to the shops' option here!
No close clothes shops unless 1 wants to pay hi-end prices with little choices. No knicker shops for 12 miles :-\
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There's going to be a lot of this uncertainty - but it may be that the bug overtook her other chronic conditions. I was thinking about her in the early hours :'(. So sorry for your news :hug: [my Dad's certificate states 'prostate cancer' but it wasn't ....... but that was the last Consultant that he had been seen by, 4 years previously. The Home refused to get the Consultant to visit Dad and he was too weak to be taken to the Appt.. I was livid at the time as Mum wouldn't let me arrange a DV at the home. >:(. ]
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Maybe get hold of the funeral director who may have access to more information or if there is a patient support group, i.e. PALS? though they are probably working from home. How certain are they that your Aunt wasn't tested for C-19? Is it in her notes that she wasn't given the test? I think that the Consultant should go through the notes with her son to clarify exactly what tests were done.
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Just going back to driving to the local shop.
We live in a small Norfolk village, the closest shop is just over a mile and a half away, not far I near you say. What I did not say was that 3/4 of that journey is without a pavement, on a winding country lane. Dangerous as it is still a 60 miles an hour speed limit. No bus, the bus stop is a mile away.
It takes 25 minutes to walk there which is fine, walking back with bags of shopping, not so easy.
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Don't move across the border and join us in suffolk Teresa, you will have to learn a new language.That doesn't come easy at our age ;)
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Birdy I'm sorry for your loss. The home may be just as confused. They wouldn't want CV on the death certificate either as that has implications for them too. Probably unlikely the doctor will do anything about it, most seem to be doing their best to avoid patients atm. My Dad died from pneumonia in hospital following a fall. His death certificate said dementia. He had mild dementia but he fell because he was old and weak not because he had dementia. I didn't get anywhere trying to get it changed. He watched his mother decline with dementia and was terrified of getting it himself, it's so sad that it's now forever on his death certificate.
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I'm so sorry to hear that, Birdy.
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Ah yes, no pavements too! There aren't any here either Donnadoobie.
I put the bin out earlier, and saw about three groups of families wandering down the lane. it's like a zombie apocalypse out there. Groups of people going for a walk at all hours whereas usually there's no one!
Oh, don't mention no pavements. I had to walk my eldest to school up a lane like that, with a baby in a pram as well.
Don't quite understand the 'wax jacket' remark EK. Assuming living in the country makes you well off is well wide of the mark. The rural poor have it tough at the best of times, and the virus will add to their woes with lack of transport etc.,
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Ah yes, no pavements too! There aren't any here either Donnadoobie.
I put the bin out earlier, and saw about three groups of families wandering down the lane. it's like a zombie apocalypse out there. Groups of people going for a walk at all hours whereas usually there's no one!
Oh, don't mention no pavements. I had to walk my eldest to school up a lane like that, with a baby in a pram as well.
Don't quite understand the 'wax jacket' remark EK. Assuming living in the country makes you well off is well wide of the mark. The rural poor have it tough at the best of times, and the virus will add to their woes with lack of transport etc.,
Oh, sorry, I'm referring to people who live in the country, with no dependants, out and about constantly against earlier government advice, filling more than one freezer. Doesn't really help that these people were also the ones saying 'Don't worry, carry on as normal'. Now we have a pandemic on our hands. People need to take personal responsbility.
As I've said, well aware of the realities of living in the country, my husband grew up on a farm, his dad was an agricultural worker (who I know are some of worst paid workers in the UK). These are the rural poor, obviously not the folks who've retired there on a jolly, crushing communities and driving up house prices. Don't need your lecture, thanks.
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Your an odd one EK. I was making a point not giving a lecture, but have it your own way. No point in posting if you don't want a response.
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The problem of respirator shortage is not going away, anytime soon. Apparently several manufacturers, including Gtech, are get frustrated as having been approached to produce they still haven't been given the go ahead.
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I am puzzled by the discussion about what you're allowed to do and the difference between town and country in this respect. Obviously if you live in a rural area for whatever reason and whatever your background you need to drive to the shops to get essentials - but not a trip of 4-5 hours :o. Those with a village shop are well served and most villages will have a support group or pub or volunteers who will go and shop for you if you are in the vulnerable category.
I live in a small village in SW England without a shop but the pub will get essential foods for you as will volunteers if you are self-isolating - a leaflet was put through the door. My nearest small town is 6 miles away but who needs a large town at times like this? All you need are food and medicines and maybe other stuff if important things break that you need to fix if you do it yourself.
Re the exercise argument. Yes it's a common sense thing eg where I live I can walk around the lanes but if I wanted to walk along some different lanes and drove a couple of miles and parked by the side of another road I am unlikely to meet anyone nor endanger anyone nor is anyone likely to stop me. Unfortunately in more densely populated areas this has to be policed for all the reasons given - close proximity in car parks, parking meters, RTA potential, petrol stations etc I am acutely aware of how difficult this must be for families with young children living in high rise blocks in city centres, and the privileged position I and other countrydwellers are in because we do have that open space at our fingtertips or should I say toes ::). The downside of course is less easy access to food, medicines and services, including hospitals ( nearest hospital in big town 16 miles away).
In the meantime I am posting an appropriate ( but very explicit!) song on the youtube thread which some of you might have come across ::)
Hurdity x
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We are allowed out and about ;D - doesn't matter where we live. Until Boris decides otherwise on what might be wrong information from so-called experts [see my new threads]
If we live in the country with no dependants we have to go out to exercise, make sure that the neighbours are OK and get shopping.
I couldn't live in a town-town but there are some places that I have visited across the UK that I would buy in i.e. Durham City. Edinburgh. Alnwick. Brighton or Lewes.
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If you can get hold of one. Our Solicitor and Estate Agents have gone to ground :( we had almost reached Exchange :cuss:
I don't consider myself 'privileged' :-\ we worked HARD for our bricks and mortar from the age of 16.
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Government advice is that exercise should be taken from home, not after a drive. You may be safer by driving further away but the unsuspecting farmer opening the gate after you have potentially contaminated it will think you are putting him at risk.
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How does that work though? In the 13 years [1980s] I walked the fields locally often 3 times each day, I never saw a farmer walking them. Cows, bull and calves but never a farmer. When I got lost one afternoon as I couldn't read the OS Map properly and the way posts disappeared the Farmer who I knew came out to meet me. I often went to the farms to let the owners know when sheep were on their backs and would put my dog into the down position whilst we turned them onto their feet. Without my having walked those fields the sheep would still be there ::).
Logically how many people will be contaminated enough to leave the virus on wooden gates :-\. It's enough 2 freeze the germ off a post out there today ;-). How likely is it that anyone else will touch the same spot as anyone else :-\. Even busy areas are unlikely to have been contaminated and as people are not walking in droves or as regularly in 'beauty spots' ......
Recently I said to someone 'Strictly Come Pavements now then' he was about 80 and giggled as he avoided me ::)
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Oh we have gates, stiles, 5-barred gates to negotiate, all paid for by the local authority. How else does one keep stock in ......... :-\ lambs of course are great for getting through hedges :( and of course, the nearest gate will be at least half a mile away in order to shoo them back and fix the gaps ;D and sure as eggs is eggs, they won't find their way back naturally.
Mended over the years by the Ramblers Association. I fell off one stile in 1991, I knew as I put my welly down that I was going to slip, the surface was green - into a bed of nettles in a dyke :o. Laid there a while unhurt but I didn't know how to get up without slipping into the nettles further. It took all my brain power and where was the dog: not helping that was for sure ;D. DH bought me a mobile phone after that incident but it would have been in the pocket I was laying on anyway ::). I walked those fields 2/3 times a day.
Kissing gates - all have to be handled in order to open/shut. If anyone wears gloves which would be necessary today due to icy wind, these need to be washed after each use to avoid spread. Not put into the pocket of the jacket and got out on the next walk! We also have lytch gates ....
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I don't have to imagine people walking through gates to get into fields, I see them every day. Then I see OH or myself opening the same gate to check the stock which we and every other farmer do every day. They say it can live for 3 days on metal and plastic. Shall we take bets - how long before we get it and pass it on to elderly MIL who can't be isolated as she can'tmmanage on her own? There is no other workplace where Jo public can wander in and contaminate handles.
If we get it isn't only MIL who will die, so will anything that can't calve or lamb on it's own and many lambs will be taken by foxes when we can't bring them in.
Our LA pay for the material for stiles, the landowner has to build them.
OK birdy less chance you will spread it there than in a livestock area.
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Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. The contamination via touch is all to do with droplets from coughing and sneezing. So if people are careful with their own personal hygiene the spread by touch should be limited. I don't think it lasts outside for as long anyway. Something do do with UV rays, but I may have misremembered that.
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It is killed by boiling water, detergent/bleach mix. It is unlikely to surivive really cold weather but we haven't had a proper Winter for years >:(
How long does it live on wood? Do you wear gloves sheila? Marigolds that can be washed with hot water is as good as anything around the farm yards. I 'did' the letter box yesterday and all indoor handles.
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Anyone else terrified at maybe being forbidden to go for a walk in the coming weeks?
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Yes, Suzysunday, just said exactly that during our circuit of fields up the lane. So lucky to have open countryside on our doorstep. Feel for those living in city flats right now & anyone stuck inside for the 3 months in the more vulnerable category. Take good care everyone.
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We are lucky to have open countryside on my doorstep, on normal days I'm the only one out but since last week I'm seeing a lot more people :( All our fields apart from one are arable, I do on one walk have to go through 2 metal kissing gates.
As for shopping we have a small local Co-Op 2.5 miles away but they only stock limited about of groceries, so I have to drive approx 10 miles to get to a supermarket, my plan tomorrow is try and get as much as I can for two weeks, then hopefully just use the Co-Op for my fresh food, oh and I have the butchers who I always get my meat from.
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It is killed by boiling water, detergent/bleach mix. It is unlikely to surivive really cold weather but we haven't had a proper Winter for years >:(
It's thought that it likes the cold and may not be quite as virulent in warm weather so there's hope it will drop back a bit in the summer. Its the uncertainty of how it is going to behave that I hate.
Taz x
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But all our wonderful supermarket shelf fillers and checkout operators aren't falling like flies are they? The public are all over their workplace contaminating surfaces.
209 died in the last 24 hours. How many more have to die before you take it seriously?
Supermarket staff aren't in their 80s with a heart condition. And if they get ill they'll go to bed until they're better, there isn't a single one who'll be lambing a sheep at 2am.
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I also don't understand why take away outlets are open.
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Yes, the point she was making is that it doesn't matter because supermarket staff are also at risk. I'm sure if it was your elderly relative being put at risk you'd think differently, unless you don't care much if they die. People will die if they can't buy food, they won't die if they don't go for a walk. The situation is completely different.
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Actually I was responding specifically to your comment that there is no other workplace where Joe public can walk in and contaminate handles.
My answer was yes there is - supermarkets.
To then start suggesting I don't care if elderly relatives die is just plain ridiculous!
I apologise, I didn't interpret it that way.
I may not have expressed my comment about public access to business premises well, I should have made clear I meant businesses not normally open to the public.
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All food is essential. Our local Pubs are cooking take out or for delivery, which means less people in the village leave to buy foods. It's keeping people in a job. All sealed and not handled by many from cooker to gob ;-). Fish and chips saw us through the War ;-). As long as take aways are keeping distances in queues why shouldn't they keep operational. No different from shopping for other items.
More and more supermarkets have put plastic masks in front of till operators, I probably mean screens :-\- have you not seen the adverts today from Asda and Tesco ? These will protect as much as possible. Many are asking for contactless payments to avoid handling cash etc.. After all Post Office staff have been protected by screens for years. I hope that this keeping a distance will continue ;D
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Because take-aways are part of the community? They have queues rather than people sitting in? People can order ahead so it's ready to be passed over the counter, avoiding as much contact as possible. What I hate is the blue gloves used all day :-(. I would prefer bare skin which will be washed more often when it feels sticky.
It's about keeping people in work for as long as possible. Even garages are shutting :-\ so don't go breaking down anywhere soon!
How many of you know enough store workers to be aware of when they have their off days, are unwell or on duty? I don't and we go to supermarkets 3/4 times a week usually ......... we do go to the same till worker to catch up on her news but have no idea of her working hours etc..
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Tnx. Our local pubs have been up and running as restaurants 4 10 years + so have repurposed in order to remain in business. The villagers are loving it. Many were regulars there so are collecting their orders. You might not think that take aways are essential Birdy but in this area where people need to keep in touch a food delivery enables them to connect.
A Chinese take away is essential to the Company providing the food. It means that food is less likely to be wasted and if they want to, once their stocks have been used, they can shut up shop for the Duration. Or they can remain open providing a service. As our Pubs have done thus far.
Cafes with small rooms are more difficult to keep open due to close proximity of tables. Those that have to shop are applying for the various grants/loans that the Government has offered.
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I think by keeping the smaller food outlets open, like Chinese takeaways (which may also be family run), it means less people needing to congregate in the larger supermarkets. Deliveries are even better as less people outside of homes.
It also takes the pressure off of the government's furlough funds.
I can see how this doesn't work for more specialist food outlets though, like with the cream teas. Sounds a lovely business though for when you can get back to it Birdy! Especially the Prosecco option. ;)
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"we?re being advised. " :-\
Our Pub did Mothers' Day afternoon tea with Prosecco for those who had already booked.
They have done evening meals since that weekend ......... to order. No different to going out to shop for the ingredients and cooking oneself. Approved by the Local Authority. The more that remain in business the less the Government will have to pay out at the end of all this upheaval and better 4 everyone's mental health.
I find your outrage slightly upsetting and disrespectful. Especially about the food being contaminated, that's a bit outrageous. The Chefs have Food Handling Certs., are being offered the chance to continue working within our community and may even be able to pay their rent/rate/mortages as well as keeping a job for as long as possible.
It's about keeping community services going in a rural community, use it or lose it! I'm not a pub goer myself these days due to anxiety. But for those that are friends with the owners of our take away services etc., it is helping to keep businesses running. What's wrong with that? Which bit of contactless payment don't you get exactly? or even paying by credit card over the 'phone B4 collection. Each meal is ordered and cook freshly as it is in the usual way of things.
Yep a trip out of the house - we are allowed out! Food is essential. If I didn't have a husband who cooks I would be taking advantage of the Pub too.
By buying local meats etc. the pubs are keeping local farmers in work. Buying eggs etc., village shop benefits ........ absolutely no different to going to the supermarket 4 miles away and mixing with a lot more people! Plus the use of fuel and the possibility of touching more services. Also you are assuming that everyone involved will be contaminated :-\
It's a bit like because you felt it necessary to shut no one else should be in business? instead of looking around to see how your skill base might help your local community.
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:thankyou:
Birdy - to suggest that the food served from our local Pub/take away is contaminated has taken my breath away. I'll put it down to your being stressed and upset at having made the decision to close your business.
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It's not up to me Diane - the LA have approved the rebranding and as we are a centre of busy activities where food is a large part of the entertainment scene, the LA are very much on the case. They will of course be taking precautions, why wouldn't they :-\. Tested for what exactly?
Taking temperature in a cooking environment would probably be a waste of time? It's a hot place to work at the best of times. How often would they need to take a temperature anyway?
So walking across the road to pick up food from any source being it in kit form or ready cooked by reliable sources should be forbidden? Or walking 200 yards to pick up pre-ordered food where I live is no different to my walking to the shop and back ::). For essentials. Like food.
You choose to close. Your business is different to a Pub. or Chinese outlet.
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Not far from me Birdy, about 15 miles. I am in South Norfolk, my daughter lives in Lowestoft
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Wil do Birdy and look forward to it.
I agree with all you said about takeaways btw. The risks are just not worth it x
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I used the Just Eat app last night so paid through that and it was delivered to me. I know the driver and he drives all the orders around in his car and you pick up from his car window. I then wiped the packaging down and put all in my own containers. I thought Covid couldn't survive on hot food, unless there has been an update on this? I think it just depends how it's done.
Birdy, if you are a limited company I think it may be easier as you can claim 80% for yourself and staff through furlough which would be based on recent earnings (I think). The sole trader is the last 3 years. See here https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/cbi-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-factsheet/
Hope that is something you can apply for.
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It just goes against all common sense to me to go and buy food from anyone when I can't be 100% sure they are not carrying the virus.
I mean I could say my sister lives just up the road, she's well currently, so I'm going to pop up there to pick up a casserole she's cooked for me.
Not on is it?
So why are we still allowed to go and buy takeaways?
I saw an ad on local FB today of someone offering a home baked Victoria sponge. No one had answered. I wouldn't risk buying any food cooked by another person at home or at a takeaway at the moment.
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I do think more of us have already had Covid than we realise. I'm pretty sure I have but without a test I can't know for sure.
I am concerned about the OCD aspect of this. When people over-clean it's often a way of protecting their family (often gets embedded after a trauma which involves a threat to family). This is now going to be wide-scale, yes the virus is incredibly infectious but we can never be 100% sure about any food packaging we bring into our homes, including from the supermarket.
However, if we avoid people actively coughing and sneezing, if we wash our hands after touching external surfaces, it is highly unlikely we would pick up the virus. The warnings are often exaggerated to get into the thick brains of those who think it doesnt apply to them. Sensible people do not need to over-clean, as this could lead to more anxiety down the road.
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Hello ladies
It's tempting to think that many of us had COVID 19 a few months ago and never knew it. Certainly there were many viral illnesses doing the rounds during the winter months. However if those were Coronavirus cases surely we would have seen a surge in hospital admissions at that time.
It doesn't seem likely that only mild cases of the disease occur for a few months followed by more severe versions later on. It's reassuring to know that some people only have a mild version of COVID 19 but essentially it must be the same virus and the different experiences must be due to some other factor. Having said all that I am no scientist so I could be wrong and we know viruses can mutate.
Take care ladies and stay safe.
K.
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"modelling" - often done by statisticians with no knowledge of the issue in question. But our Government followed this during F&M instead of acting previous proven guidelines and now the Government are following the current 'modelling' :-\
Anyone had their letter from Boris yet? ;). I want to send it right back, DH wants to frame it ;D
My Gt Uncle aged 91 had the 'flu jab in November and has been ill since - with symptoms of C-19 as described since January. "I kept telling them that I was ill with more than the 'flu" but his comments fell on deaf ears >:(
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Since Richard's aunt had cv as her primary cause of death written on her death certificate (she was never tested, she had renal failure and died in her sleep in a care home, with absolutely no cv symptoms) we have since heard from five separate sources that they believed cv is being over stated as a cause of death.
I don't know why this would be the case. It makes me uncomfortable.
What is the procedure re funeral arrangements etc Birdy? I know the coffin is sealed and no viewings can take place but early reports were of immediate cremation? It must be a very difficult time for the family.
Taz x :hug:
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Just heard. The person who my OH works with the most has been took into hospital last night with breathing difficulties. They?re testing her for covid19. She's been in oxygen ever since.
🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀
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Very rarely does 'old age' get put onto a Death Certificate, in face from the mid-1970s it became an uncommon statement.
That's a long while jillydoll for the colleague to be ill without admission? What's the GP suggest for your OH this morning?
There was talk very early on by the UK Government of multiple cremations if the virus overcomes the country but this won't suit many religions across the World. I would rather people lit a candle in their hearts for me than get together anyway. If they want people may sit at the Crem and think whilst the slow movement of the Bruch violin concerto is played; I want people to buy a gift for the person they love best on that particular day [might not be the person they are married to ], I will go out with bird song ........ job done. No mourning, no black. If people can't visit/speak to me whilst I'm alive I don't want them there pretending to be sad!
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Or via Skype? Like a Mexican wave?
Good old Mercedes - as my Gt Uncle said earlier, "70 years ago we were fighting the Bars***, now they are helping to save Lives " ::)
The Government have asked that people stop accusing those legally allowed to work under the State of Emergency Laws! Do not become a vigilante!!
On the News today: Those that aren't able to continue with their airlines will be helping the newly popped up hospitals .... I hope that they are ready for what they might see :'(
And where did the word 'furlough' spring from :o >:(
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An elderly family friend passed last week. It was expected and not from virus. Single Cremation no service. He will be taken straight to crem. . They were told only family and they are not going inside. . Its Thursday which considering he passed Friday seems very quick compared to normal for our local crem.
With the certificates I was only saying this to my sis. Its surely important for statistics. I'm minded of when my wifes mum passed from MRSA during its worst time. It wasnt on the certificate even though we were told she was dying from it.
When this awful pandemic is over, get in touch and I?ll have you over for a slap up afternoon tea, or whatever you fancy. Lowestoft is minutes away! 😁😁😀😀
[/quote
Birdy. Can I come? I know the area well. Our annual family holiday to potters has been cancelled. Weve been going over 30 years. Do you know potters? Hopton on sea. I have family in gorleston too.
Love to all. Xx
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What's the point of a legal document not being honest :-\
Sorry for your news Tc ........
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Aah thanks bird.
Thanks ladies. He was a family friend and was very sick it was expected.
Xx
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This social distancing is still bothering me! You see policemen on patrol walking side by side, waterboard workers, shop assistants etc. I just don't get it. Doesn't it apply to them? I saw workmen travelling in vans this morning and no way are they 2 metres apart.
I was in the Post Office today and well behind one other person in the queue. A man then walked in right up to me and reached over me to get to items on the shelf behind me! I was sorely tempted to say something but then thought I might get a mouthful or a poke in the eye. I had my snood over my face but it does make you feel really worried.
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I braved tesco Saturday. I had to tell so many people they were too close to me. People who dont need to are also shopping in couples. I feel sorry for the staff. Trying to fill shelves while people are leaning over them. Staff standing side by side putting out salad and vedge. I cant believe they have to do that. Surely they can shut an aisle if it absolutely needs restocking during opening. Or sbut doors whilst they do it. They are not protecting their staff.
I heard today glass panels are going up for servers. But what about those on the shop floor.
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Shop floor workers should be restocking over night when stores are shut. Our local 'Waitrose' got their Plans passed on the understanding that no restocking was done in opening times - that didn't last very long and of course, the LA can't afford to take them to Court to press them to keep to the Plans :-\
Also Tesco across the UK have limited numbers into the store for at least a week :-\ and have said so, as have Asda, on TV adverts ........
Someone reaching over my Mum was how apparently her purse was stolen .......... two large Jamacan ladies jostling and reaching over her. A few years ago.
I have decided that when anyone gets too close I will shout - it will embarrass men in particular ;). I don't like my space invaded.
I agree Pennyfarthing - even on TV essential workers are standing closer than we have been advised ........... even the Ambulances are side by side which means that workers will have to get close in order to access the driver's seat >:(
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Remind them to wipe their steering wheels, gear sticks, boot doors etc.. Seats ........... gadgets that work the various washer bottles etc. ;-)
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Anyone watch the daily updates, I'm fascinated by the questions put by journalists. The journalists have decided on the questions before the briefing I'm sure, today they were asked if the NHS staff should get medals. I wanted to know if all the people being flown back to the U.K. are being quarantined or being allowed home and trusted not to go out ?
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Good point two hoots. I guess The politicians are also briefed on what will be asked. There is one journalist who wastes every question by asking "dont you regret this, or dont you think 6 weeks ago you should have done that". I know from past what her agenda is and its party politics.
X
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Rang GP. GP said to wait 48 hours to see if he needed any more antibiotics.
He said he may need hospital intervention.
He's started coughing today. Which got worse this morning. Which is why the doctor said he might need intervention.
So, instead of waiting 48 hours, me and my son, rang 999. They arranged a call back from a paramedic, who said it sounds like he needs to be in hospital. So he sent an ambulance.
They came and assessed him. They said he was boarder line needing hospital treatment.
The thing is, all this could pass at home, if he goes into hospital, and he hasn't got covid, he could catch it. On the other hand, he could already have it, plus the infection he's got. They even called our GP, who told them he would take their lead on this, so, because he has no breathing difficulties at the moment, it was decided, it's best to leave him in the house. We have to watch and see.
For some unknown reason, taking paracetamol is making his temperature soar instead of lowering it.
So they've told him to only take one instead of two. it's actually called something, but I can't remember what they said. They said to call back if needed and they?ll take him in if he gets any worse.
They also said, they'd been to someone this morning, who was on day 22 of this virus, and was really poorly. Some people get over it after a couple days, a week, some longer. They just can't predict how it's going to react from one person to another . ....xx
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Thinking of you both xx
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Thank you Barnacle. xx
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Hello ladies
Jillydoll - I'm sorry to read that your husband is still so unwell. Did the paramedic ask if he has any other health conditions as that can be a factor for how you respond to COVID 19 and you might be able to treat those, for example a more powerful inhaler if your husband has asthma.
Sending big hugs to you and hopefully your husband will turn a corner soon.
Take care.
K.
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Hi jilly. What a worry for you. I'm sending love and hope he starts to turn a corner very soon. Xx
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Thanks for the update jillydoll
:bighug:
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This is where the testing needs to be available. How does he feel in himself jillydoll?
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Chinese Doctors have arrived in London to help with the crisis.
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Diane that Is so sad xx
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Sorry to hear he's still no better jillydoll. What a worry for you. So hoping he feels a bit better soon. You take care. Sending hugs.
JP xxx
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WHAT! I would have thought that the Chinese would keep their heads down :-X
When ever I leave anyone that I care about I say 'goodbye' thinking that I won't see them again. It's a bonus if we do. So with the visiting restrictions people should be 'having that conversation' - don't people wave kisses at each other right now :-\ in case :-\
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Oh Jillydoll, at least he will have access to all the medical assistance he needs. Doctoring over the phone was not enough. Try and rest now.
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Thanks for the update Jaypo. Hopefully he'll now get the iv antibiotics it seems (to me anyway) that he needs. This sounds like whatever infection he has requires that to get it under control. Sending love to you Jill
Taz x
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At least he should get the treatment he needs now. Pity it didn't happen sooner. :hug:
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Thanks for the update, at least they will be able to give him stronger antibiotics and get some fluids into him.
Jilly must be exhausted. Xx
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Absolutely. If they can get his temperature down he should be more comfortable.
Did he take a phone with him. I have heard it's hard to get information from hospital staff, as they are so busy. Be nice if JD can keep in touch personally.
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She is,poor thing,he was taken in just before midnight,she said he seemed to be away in a dream,like not really with it?but the high temp would do that wouldn't it?
Thanks jaypo. I hope they can get this infection under control now. Thinking of you both jillydoll. xxx
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Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it now he's in hospital, sending my love to you and hubby Jillydoll and thank you Jaypo for the update 💐 x
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this is awful news :'(
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Hello ladies
Thank you jaypo for the updates. This indeed is sad news.
Sending hugs to Jillydoll and keeping her and her family in my thoughts.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Chinese doctors will have more knowledge of how to deal with this CLKD
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Hugs to you Jillydoll x
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Thanks for the updates Jay. Sending love to jilly and to all xxxx
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Crikey that was a quick turn around for Mr Jillydoll :o - 'they think' :-\. Pity someone at 111 didn't 'think' last week!
They will be knackered :'( :-\
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what a nightmare.....wishing your husband a speedy healing....take care of yourself, too Jillydoll xx
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Hugs to you Jillydoll x
Same from me x
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It bothers me, all this taking Mr J to hospital and back ......... without keeping him isolated to find out exactly what might be the problem >:(. Emergency admissions should be kept in until such time as results are returned so that correct and appropriate treatment can be administered. The risk of his picking up a Hospital-acquired infection raises each time he is moved. The risk to Emergency Staff when they move him into/out of/back home must be immense at a time when we are being asked to safe distance :-\. If there has been a C-19 test then surely to goodness 1 stays in Hospital until the Result is back >:(
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:'(
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Keep going Jillydoll- what a roller coaster you?re on.
Thank you for the update jaypo, everyone needs an awesome friend like you :bighug:
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Thanks for the update jaypo
What a journey they've been on. Hopefully Mr JD will now start to feel a little better.
Sending good wishes to them both and for Jillydoll :foryou:
Lanzalover x
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So sorry to read this latest update.
Thinking of them both during this awful time and sending healing wishes.
Lanzalover x
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Why do they keep carting him about >:( :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Such a difficult time! I hope that he is now well and truly on the mend.
A friend of ours was treated in hospital for suspected Covid-19 as he had a high fever and after a few days developed pneumonia. The feeling that he had the virus masked the real cause of his illness and he ended up with a perforated appendix and sepsis - no Covid-19 at all. It must be so difficult for the medical staff to know what to do for the best in these frantic times. He's home now after two weeks in hospital.
Taz x
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I don't think that they are not interested I just think that in some parts of the country the NHS is already totally overstretched although the politicians would have us believe otherwise. I hope we succeed in flattening the peak for long enough. It's like double worry now... hope I don't get the Coronavirus.. and... hope I don't get anything else. Scary to see the doctors surgery all shuttered with only one door open and patients queuing across the road.
Taz x
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Hi Everyone. And thank you to all well wishes. xx
He was sent home this morning again after spending all night in A&E.
it was found out by blood tests that the infection had gone, and to stop the antibiotics straight away as they were making him sick. His temperature at the time of going in last night was nearly 41. The highest it's ever been. He wasn't ?all there? and kept repeating the same stuff over. The paramedic inputted all his vital signs into their PDA thingy, and she said it came back as 5 and 6. It determines if the person needs hospital intervention. .....now because he had an infection, and covid19 symptoms, which, if you've no breathing difficulties, or anything like that, basically, stay at home, because there's nothing anyone can do for you, they were talking about what to do. Do they take him, or leave him? Considering everyone's over stretched at the hospital and it's a high risk for infection, it was really a toss up on what to do. The paramedic said, had there NOT been this covid thing going on, given the results out of this PDA thingy, they would definitely be taking him in. ....after a short discussion between the two paramedics, and us, they decided to take him. His breaths were a little fast and he developed a cough.
So after tests, bloods, ect they sent him home. As I've said, the infection has cleared up. So that's something. As for anything else, he has to ride it out, for however long it lasts.
They also said his kidneys were good. ( that's where we think the infection was, although there's no definitive answer) and that's it. ....There is noway we would've called an ambulance again for him, if we thought he didn't need it. He looked like he was dying. He's lost a lot of weight, The doc said don't worry about eating. Just drink. He was unsteady on his feet when he went to the toilet, he was wet with sweat, and incoherent , very easily confused.
He came home, went to bed and has only woke twice today, each time to go toilet and have a drink water after. There's nothing more I/ we can do. it's just got to run it's course. But now we now the infections gone, it does make us happier knowing it's not doing any damage.
One down, one to go. !
Stay safe everyone, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. ....xxxx
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:bighug:
Keep being strong :)
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Jilly. Thank you for updating us. Thank goodness the infection has gone. I can imagine sepsis was a huge worry. Can you ask doc for something he can drink like a build up drink if he cant eat. ? Or maybe an electrolyte drink to replace what he is losing by sweating..
How are you sweetheart?
Xxxx
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Hi Everyone. And thank you to all well wishes. xx
He was sent home this morning again after spending all night in A&E.
it was found out by blood tests that the infection had gone, and to stop the antibiotics straight away as they were making him sick. His temperature at the time of going in last night was nearly 41. The highest it's ever been. He wasn't ?all there? and kept repeating the same stuff over. The paramedic inputted all his vital signs into their PDA thingy, and she said it came back as 5 and 6. It determines if the person needs hospital intervention. .....now because he had an infection, and covid19 symptoms, which, if you've no breathing difficulties, or anything like that, basically, stay at home, because there's nothing anyone can do for you, they were talking about what to do. Do they take him, or leave him? Considering everyone's over stretched at the hospital and it's a high risk for infection, it was really a toss up on what to do. The paramedic said, had there NOT been this covid thing going on, given the results out of this PDA thingy, they would definitely be taking him in. ....after a short discussion between the two paramedics, and us, they decided to take him. His breaths were a little fast and he developed a cough.
So after tests, bloods, ect they sent him home. As I've said, the infection has cleared up. So that's something. As for anything else, he has to ride it out, for however long it lasts.
They also said his kidneys were good. ( that's where we think the infection was, although there's no definitive answer) and that's it. ....There is noway we would've called an ambulance again for him, if we thought he didn't need it. He looked like he was dying. He's lost a lot of weight, The doc said don't worry about eating. Just drink. He was unsteady on his feet when he went to the toilet, he was wet with sweat, and incoherent , very easily confused.
He came home, went to bed and has only woke twice today, each time to go toilet and have a drink water after. There's nothing more I/ we can do. it's just got to run it's course. But now we now the infections gone, it does make us happier knowing it's not doing any damage.
One down, one to go. !
Stay safe everyone, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. ....xxxx
It does sound horrible. Let's hope for improvement by tomorrow.
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Hi ,
Thanx TH I'm trying, I have had a meltdown, yesterday I think it was, think I needed it. Feel better now for it. xx
Tc. Hi. I gave him some electrolytes, put it in his drink, yeah, he spat it out.! 😡 Said it tasted awful. He says the taste in his mouth is just dreadful, can't taste a thing, and even his smell has gone. As for anything like food, it's a no, no. He has had a little weetabix tho. Not today, the other day,and an apple, cut up into chunks, now I don't think he?ll eat anything.
But the doctor doesn't worry over things like that, it?ll all come back when he's better. xx
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Thanx Birdy. ....it is, it's a living nightmare. Xx
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Hot Bovril or redybrek? Runny not cooked thickly?
ABs can alter the sense of taste. As can infection. Zinc is a common after taste :-\
you must be knackered :tulips2:
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Thanx Katejo, I'm praying everyday. xx
I am, we are. Son has been brilliant. Just brilliant. He can't do much more than he's doing.
Xx
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Hello
Ladies
I am just catching up with everything and horrified by Jillydolls story with hubby, you poor people. I really hope mr JD feels better so soon.
I have heard in the last day or two that loss of smell and taste is a COVID -19 symptom ?
I really hope not but please be mindful.
Stay safe everyone x
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I'm keeping you all in my thoughts Jilly xx
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Yes Annie0710, it's a symptom. No taste, no smell, but a horrible taste in the mouth.
Thing is, they don't know how this virus reacts to everyone, because everyone has slightly different symptoms, apart from the cough, ( but not everyone has a cough, nearly all do, but there is a proportion who don't) and a high fever. Anything you else you get, is just a bonus, unfortunately. 😢
Thank you Barnacle. Xx
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Has anyone else in the Company been affected since Mr Jdoll had symptoms?
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:hug: Jillydoll. Xx
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Sending love to you and Mr JD ❤
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Hoping you get a more restful night tonight Jillydoll - thinking of you x
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I'm fed up with the daily death toll too - how about those that have recovered as well as comparison to seasonal 'flu rates?
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Until a few weeks ago we had elderly neighbours. They moved further up the village. They are in their 80s and the wife has dementia. The husband is very frail himself. Every morning he walks past our house with 2 massive zipped laundry type bags of groceries which he buys at the local shop. He can hardly carry them. He must be stockpiling. He has a son in the next village so why he is not doing their shopping is beyond me. Maybe he doesn't want them to know he is buying so much food.
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Were you on speaking terms with them B4 they moved? Could it be hygiene products PennyF? Could you not have a word? Perhaps the Wife has fads on food ........ maybe the son is shielding, working in essential services, or isolating or has, like many, been told that his journey is not essential!?! what's that about! >:(.
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Perhaps he is shopping for other people. Simple as that.
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Any improvement Jilly?
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Exactly. The Telephragh have a small section hidden in their daily of 'good news' :-\. I haven't found yesterday's yet.
Tnx Birdy :tulips2:
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I really feel for jilly , she must be in bits. And her husband of course. X
So do I. It must be so scary.
I also really feel for the 13 year old boy who died without his family. It must have been so frightening and distressing for him and now for all the family who couldn't be eith him in hospital.
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They are taking him in again :'(
Oh my goodness, I hope they will keep him this time until he is a bit better. The to- ing and fro-ing is unbelievable and must be exhausting for all. Thanks for the update. Hugs to you and jd.
JP xx
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Oh this is just getting ridiculous - I really hope they will take this seriously now. Thinking of you both jillydoll. xxx
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I think it's really important to remember that coronovirus and Covid19 aren't really the same thing. We are trying to stop the spread of a virulent form of coronovirus called Covid19. Coronovirus is a catch-all name for what most of us would call the common cold.
So if someone tests positive for coronovirus it does not mean they have covid19.
The 13year old who unfortunately died had tested positive for coronovirus but that does not mean he had covid19.
He could have had meningitis.
I'm saying this because people are freaking out about the word coronovirus, but at some point we all would have had it. Covid19 is different. I have to remind myself to be aware of this and not get wound up snd terrified by news
I now understand why ?coronovirus? was on Richard's aunt's death certificate. She didn't have Covid19. A common cold killed her, as she was incredibly frail already.
Covid is an abbreviation of corona virus disease, 19 is the year the strain was named.
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Ah right now I understand. Coronaviruses are common.
Taz x
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? part of the SARS family ?
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Poor Jillydoll. I wonder how long it is before you get the results when you are tested for CV.
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The test result can be returned within 4 hours depending on where it was taken, how far it has to travel to a Lab. for processing and how long waiting list there might be at the Lab.; tested in batches of 10 at a time I believe. DH looked last night .......
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Awful to hear.
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I will be keeping them all in my thoughts xx
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Hi Jaypo,
Thanks for keeping us updated. Sending +++++++ thoughts to jillydoll, husband, family and her husband's doctors and nurses.
BeaR.
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Thanks Jaypo. She won't even be allowed at the hospital with him. :'( :'( :'(
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Not only is it ridiculous,the hospital dr stopped his ABs midway through,said the infection had gone but as I'm sure we all know,you are always told to finish the course,Jill always said,I'm worried the infection will come back and lo and behold,it's back,even the paramedics said to her,what a runaround you've been given,I know it's tough times but this is really bad treatment.
Yes I have always been aware of the need to finish a course (unless a doctor decides that it is the wrong one and gives another). The urogynaecologist who saw me recently stressed the same. I have just started a 1 week course for an ear infection. It seems to have started improving very quickly but I know to finish it.
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Keep fighting, we are all with you x
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How difficult it must be at the moment. :'( Thinking of Jillydoll and family. Hope for better news soon
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Sending prayers and healing thoughts for a man who is clearly loved and cherished, prayers also for Jill and family.
xxx
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Her Doctors and Nurses need to have a Very Hard Look at his medical transitions! Emergencies happen even in times of crisis. Would they have waited had it been his heart, a stroke, appendixs?
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Thanks for the update Jaypo. I'm thinking of JD & OH and hope they all come out of this ok. It really doesn't seem right that he's now had three hospital admissions, as for the AB you have to finish the course not just stop because infection has gone, ridiculous.
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Sending healing wishes and positive thoughts to Jill and her DH.
Hopefully we'll get some positive news soon.
Lanzalover x
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Sending positive thoughts Jaypo
How horrendous and terribly sad
:-(
Xx
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Ah right now I understand. Coronaviruses are common.
Taz x
Very very common! They've been with us a long time. We almost definitely have all had Coronavirus at some point. Covid19 is a new strain.
Hi there - this appears to be some confusion so I've done a post in Other Health Discussion clarifying it here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47582.0.html
We have not had what is now called "coronavirus" (unless we've had Covid-19 and this has been confirmed through a test taken while we had it). This is a blanket term being antibody test purchased in bulk by the Goivt last week and currently being trialled at the moment to see if it is accurate.
The word or illness "coronavirus" is not used for the colds etc caused by other members of this virus group - except in discussion to say that the new virus around at the moment is a type of coronavirus.
Hurdity x
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I did my previous post without reading the latest posts properly.
So very sorry to hear that jillydoll's husband is so poorly in hospital :'( and sending warm healing thoughts.
Send her a :bighug: jaypo
Hurdity x
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Hi everyone.
Just to say a big Thank You to you all for thinking and sending best wishes, and hugs to me and my OH. it's been a very long 11 days. Just horrendous tbh.
The latest is, he's been tested for covid, it?ll take 2/3 days for the results.
He's on oxygen, been given a full bottle of paracetamol, and anti sickness drugs, plus an injection in his stomach which was an anti clotting drug. He's also been given a massive amount of antibiotics, ( his words) intravenously. Don't know why yet, I suspect the infection is back, but won't know until tomorrow when he sees the doc. Afterall, they don't give out AB for nothing do they, and we all know, you can't treat covid19 with it, so we?ll have to wait and see.
He's tired, very weak, but now he's more relaxed, he said he doesn't have to worry now about his temperature, or drinking now, because it's done for him. ( he's on a drip) so that's a big worry off him. Whether he?ll need a ventilator, which the doc suspects he might, remains to be seen. .....what do they say? Third time lucky? ....yep. .....He's in the QE Birmingham.
I'm wrecked, anxiety working it's way up, and every little cough, or something, I worry I have it. I cry when I'm on my own. I have to. Then I carry on. You have to. I have my MIL living here too, we've done all we can to protect her, so far so good. We've been over the top with killing germs, it seems that way anyway, but we don't care, it's what we feel we've have to do. it's making us germ freaks! But hey,ho. ....I?ll up date when I hear anthing else, we have to wait to hear news from phone calls, as the hospital is in lockdown, which is hard, we can't even go up to see him.
Thanks again. Means a lot. Xxxxxxxx
Thanks so much Birdy. Xxxx
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Hi jillydoll,
Thanks for the update. You're doing the right thing and he's in the right place. You're probably not going to relax/sleep for a while, but try to think about yourself and look after your mental and physical health. Brave girl ✊🏻 Huge hug 🤗
BeaR.
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JD
you?re amazing, I'd be a crumpled wreck by now. Please look after yourself too and I really hope things start going yours and OH way now
Big hugs xx
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Jillydoll, good to hear things are coming together. You are an amazing woman, sending you hugs and positive thoughts, look after yourself 🤗 x
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Tnx for the update - I too would be crumpled long B4 this, good explanation Annie
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The not being able to visit must be difficult, but he's in the best place even though it's been a long road to get there.
A little improvement every day and he'll be home soon :)
You are coping brilliantly :love:
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Just saw I lady in the supermarket having a bit of a strop because she wasn't allowed 4 loaves.
She said she was shopping for her neighbours but was still refused.
You are only allowed 2 loaves but she said she would then probably have to make another shopping trip thus putting more people at risk. it's difficult for all but you've got to follow the rules.
I am also shopping for my neighbour and I'm in the same position. She wants their weekly shop and so do I but that's just the way it is. We will make do.
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Maybe ring forwards with your lists and book a slot to collect them, either from the shelves or via a personal shopper that some stores are providing?
Or get the neighbour to ring to confirm that you will be shopping for them? There should be give/take!
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Just saw I lady in the supermarket having a bit of a strop because she wasn't allowed 4 loaves.
She said she was shopping for her neighbours but was still refused.
You are only allowed 2 loaves but she said she would then probably have to make another shopping trip thus putting more people at risk. it's difficult for all but you've got to follow the rules.
I am also shopping for my neighbour and I'm in the same position. She wants their weekly shop and so do I but that's just the way it is. We will make do.
If I shopped for a neighbour (as might happen), i would have to make 2 trips simply because I couldn't fit it all in my bag/trolley at one time.
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When we return to supermarket shopping we will queue up with 2 trollies ;) mine will be filled with Easter eggs :D
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When we return to supermarket shopping we will queue up with 2 trollies ;) mine will be filled with Easter eggs :D
Having 2 trolleys isn't much good if you can't carry it home.
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Anyone got their letter from Boris yet??
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Nope. Might that be on hold due to his isolation? It will require shaking hard when it does arrive >:(
I will have a horse box ready to take the Easter eggs away ;-) - it will take a brave copper to separate me from chocolate ;D
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Sending love jd. Thinking of you.
Love to all xxx
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Thanks for the update Jillydoll. Keeping fingers crossed for you both and sending you lots of hugs.
I'm annoyed with some of the villagers around here, who don't seem to understand social distancing! One couple walking towards me just carried on holding hands in middle of lane, no intention of keeping 2m apart, then another couple walking down narrow lane one on one side the other on otherside & nowhere for me to go, said excuse me but they just carried on so asked again & eventually got past but they were so rude :(
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Is there any positive news anywhere? All I here is bad stuff 😢
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:-*. we need more news that is positive :-*.
An "absolutely incredible" 94-year-old woman, known as "supergran" by her family, has been discharged from hospital after battling coronavirus.
Joy, whose surname is being withheld, told relatives NHS staff had been "fantastic" as she returned to her home in Beccles, Suffolk.
The retired nurse had tested positive for coronavirus and pneumonia.. surname being withheld, photo on full view ::)
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I heard a lady in her 90s beat it too :)
X
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So now NHS Workers are shown holding flowers given to them free :-\ but no evidence that the packages have been cleaned :-\ :-\
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Hope your hubby is home with you soon Jillydoll.
As everyone says youve been incredibly brave.
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Yes I did, but I seemed to be the only one near here, although could hear some noise and cheering in the distance. Felt a bit of a lemon on my own and soon came in again.
JP x
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Oh Jillydoll, just catching up and so very sorry to read everything that you and OH have been through. I hope that now he's in hospital he will start to feel better very soon. I hope that you and MIL will be OK. Take Care.
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Did you clap tonight?
No-one was out round here.
I tried but my immediate neighbours didn't come out this time. Could hear a little clapping further along the road.
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Our road stepped it up a bit this week - some added in pots and pans to the clapping and I blew a whistle.
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I'm afraid I have clapping fatigue :-\ - this crisis could well go on into the Autumn ........ it is known that most in the UK support our workers so once a month is probably often enough. There are already grumbles round here that 'it does't include the bin men who are out in all weathers'
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They are always out in all weathers though :-\
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I'm afraid I have clapping fatigue :-\ - this crisis could well go on into the Autumn ........ it is known that most in the UK support our workers so once a month is probably often enough. There are already grumbles round here that 'it does't include the bin men who are out in all weathers'
As I clapped last night I thought of the postman (not our usual one) who delivered my mail at ten to six in the evening :o. Hope he got extra in his pay packet for doing the "late shift".
JP x
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Many Supermarkets are giving bonuses to Staff.
Our postie was here B4 6 this morning, she delivered an item that was posted in Norfolk at 3.30 yesterday afternoon :o :-*
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hearing some of these ?experts? on TV makes me realise how very out of touch they are with the real world. Dr Sarah Jarvis is just on TV telling parents how to cope with their kids while they are all at home. ?They should all sit down at supper and talk about their day.? ;D ;D Does she know that some families don't even have a table let alone know what supper is.
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I agree tv are out if touch, how many times are they going to say do an online delivery, it's been impossible to get a delivery :(
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I have to say I think our GP services is running very well, despite the virus.
My Son has had really bad sinusitis which got worse yesterday. He phoned the surgery at 2pm, GP called back just before 5pm, collected ABs from chemist just before 6pm. Normally that would have taken 2-3 days.
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However: I put an repeat prescription in on Monday and it's been stopped. The Surgery rang this morning to tell me that they can't re-issue medication - that I've been taking since 2002 - until a Pharmacist rings me on Monday. So if I was out of medication ? >:( :cuss: I told her that the 'phone won't be answered B4 9.00 a.m..
Wouldn't you think: as we are supposedly in an emergency situation : that this yearly reassessment could wait until the Autumn? It's not as though my meds have needed altering in recent years ......... I am fuming >:( as it's ticking boxes.
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That's good news about the schools. We've been told to expect to stay closed until September. I'm supposed to be retiring in July but it's worrying as to how a replacement can be found before then unless I go back to work for another few weeks maybe....as long as I survive of course! :-\
Taz x :)
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That would be great if the schools do open earlier than the expected September. My DD (14) is having a wobble today. It's not helping that her period is due in the next couple of days, so she's probably feeling a little off anyway. DS (13) is doing fine, although if i'm honest, he absolutely hates school and regularly develops a stomach/head/@rse ache on a Monday morning.
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Yes Jaypo, they are set their usual 3 lessons a day and the majority of it is then marked online by their teachers. What this has taught me so far is that i am absolutely shite at Physics. :)
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Don't worry, i won't tell them Stellajane. For the record, we don't do supper in this house, unless you want to call half a tube of Pringles, a twirl and a can of Coke supper. That was me last night BTW, not the DC's.
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We had breakfast, dinner and tea - Dad had supper usually cheese, biscuits and pickles.
Duchess of Devonshire began afternoon tea but can't remember which Century: because they ate a light lunch then had to wait until 8.00 p.m. for dinner and she got hungry. In Wales supper was what we called tea ::) which caused a lot of confusion.
I graze which covers all eventualities with chocolate in between ;D
Tnx Stellajane - I am reactionary and wondered whether my 'nothing better to do' was OTT. Could it be that they can't process my next 12 months prescriptions without going through the tick list ......... without it they can't press 'go' ?
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Hi Everyone, Thanx Again For All The Well Wishes...Much Appreciated. xx
Looking forward to my cream tea, Birdy, only, could I have coffee plz, I don't drink Tea. 😉
it's been confirmed today he has pneumonia. Which one, they don't know yet, apparently there's different strains of it. He's really poorly, but hasn't got any worse.
Oxygen still the same at 6, ( flow) they?re sending the Respiratory Team to see him, as they've found some kind of nodules on his lungs. What that means, I don't know yet.
Still no covid19 test result back yet. But they said, if it's negative, he?ll get moved out of the covid ward straight away into a ?normal? ward.
My worry is now, if he hasn't got Coronavirus, he's at risk of getting it because he's been on the covid ward since he went in there. I know they?re trying to stop the spread, but what if?
Maybe I'm worried over nothing. ? I'm in overdrive.
I'm ok, just bearing up, making myself do things. All I want to do is sit and cry, my life's falling apart around me, but I can't. I cry at night in bed, I cry when in the shower, in fact every opportunity I'm on my own. It helps. I'm praying every day there's an improvement, Doctor said he's going in the right direction, BUT they can change very quickly, so we have to keep a close eye on everyone. ...Hoping tomorrow he feels a little better, and can come home soon. ...thanks again everyone for your well wishes. 🤞 .xx
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You'll survive Taz - just keep washing those hands ;)
You sound very confident. Are you in touch with a higher authority ;D
Taz x
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Jilly :foryou:
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You cry. What I can't understand is all this moving of people around ......... as well as Staff wearing uniforms home :o ......... and back the next day ........... :-\. :foryou: jillydoll
When will someone realise how to BARRIER NURSE!
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As well as staff from supermarkets, who knows if they have a large slobbery dog to greet them ;D
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Thanks for the update Jillydoll just sorry it isn't more positive hopefully the next couple of days will bring more positive news.
Your have been amazing during this awful time, stay strong and you'll get through this. A good cry every now again makes us all feel better so if you want to cry or scream you go for it girl.
Sending lots of love and get well wishes to your DH.
Lanzalover x
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Every day people amaze me with their ignorance. My neighbour rang me and said her partner had been out in his car, driven to the coast and had a ?lovely walk?. I queried this and she said ?it's OK there was nobody there and no cars on the car park?. I checked online and the car parks are closed to keep people away so he must have squeezed in right next to the car park. It says only people who live there and can walk are allowed to walk there. I asked her why he didn't just walk round our village and she said he wanted to give the car a run so he didn't get a flat battery. :-\
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Love and positive thoughts to Jillydoll. Xx
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Thanks for letting us know JD, it will take him a while to get over pheumonia but at least they are treating it now :)
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A house up the road has had scaffolding put up, skip delivered and 2/3 roofers working all week >:(
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I live in a small village and some bloke is going to have a disco in his garden at the weekend and asking for requests. On the village Facebook page a lot of folks into it. I hate noise and feel stressed with the situation and 80s disco will make me feel worse. Why do people think they are doing everyone a favour when it's really all about their egos.
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A house up the road has had scaffolding put up, skip delivered and 2/3 roofers working all week >:(
I was due to have a new bathroom fitted (starting a week ago) but now postponed probably for several months. The suppliers have closed down. However a house on my road is having major external work done st the moment.
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Jillydoll
I so wish for good news for hubby and you, my god you both deserve it
Xxx
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Just looked at my emails. Sainsbury's say I've been identified as extremely vulnerable by the government and can have my shopping delivered. I didn't receive a letter from the government, but know that I am vulnerable as I have been very ill following minor infections. However I don't need the highest doses of meds unless ill. Fortunately I don't catch infections easily, which I put down to years of teaching young children. I don't know if I'm pleased or not. It solves the problem of getting shopping, but does it mean complete isolation? I've gone out for walks, as there are walks you can do and pass people at a distance around here. DH is reluctant to shop because of me, so he's relieved.
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Hi Ju JU and everyone,
I had a letter and it does say I can't go out at all for 10 weeks , so no daily exercise. Plus it recommended that hubby also doesn't go out for fear of bringing it back 😫. We are adhering to this but finding shopping slots difficult. As you know I live in wales and Sainsbury's do have a number to ring for vulnerable ppl in wales, I can't get through or when I do, I get cut off.
it's a double edged sword. It is good in that you will get your shopping delivered but does mean ( in wales ) that you can't go for a walk. Mind you as I said I live in wales so things are slightly different but the general gist of the letter is the same. You will probably get a letter soon as the shopping vulnerable slots are allocated from the names of ppl who had / will have a letter xx
Stay safe Ju Ju xxx
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As far as I can tell from my family nobody over 70 has had a vulnerable letter. Have they been taken out of the equation on this govt vulnerable list. An uncle of 85 who has heart failure and fluid on lungs has been told by gp to not go out on any account same with wife in case she puts him at risk. Yet yesterday he was told he is not eligible for the vulnerable list and therefore cannot get the shopping package or priority delivery from supermarkets.
X
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I'd find it incredibly grim being imprisoned for that length of time. What about your mental health?? Not so bad if you live with others - but inside for 10 weeks alone - ugh.
I worry about some of the people I regularly used to see out and about on the bus.
A lovely woman in her 80s who lives in the next road would often say to me the reason she went shopping every day was that if she stopped that would be it! Mobility can go into a downward spiral surprisingly quickly let alone confidence. Although we have a local shop, its about half a mile walk and she couldn't manage that, so the daily 5 minute walk to the bus stop with her trolley and a trip into town to the supermarket (close to the bus stop the other end) was her life. I doubt if I'll ever see her out again if this lockdown continues.
Another old chap who's sight impaired and uses a white stick has seemingly refused to give in - saw him getting off the bus yesterday with a bag of shopping. I think he was probably the only passenger.
Have you got local community help set up like we have here? Someone has distributed a little flyer which gives telephone numbers to call in the immediate vicinity should you need a chat or shopping help. It's worked well in our area for those who are trying to keep away from others but don't qualify for the 'shielding'. Do you know which house the lady in the next road lives in? Such a worry as you say but hopefully she has family looking out for her even remotely.
Taz x
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It seems to me that there are a lot of very vulnerable people who arent on the government list which includes very specific categories. I tried to register my husband who has decompensated liver disease and would be extremely ill if he caught the virus but was told he didnt fall into one of the specific groups. This means it is impossible to get any home delivery slots and so I have to risk going to the shops which makes me really anxious as I'm terrified of picking it up and passing it on to him.
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I really feel for those who live alone at this time, especially if self isolating.
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Suzy. It sucks trust me. I have astma so would probably qualify for the list. But I am mobile and I dont want to take away from those who ae not or the elderly.
Mintea. It's the same situation with my uncle. It seems people have fallen through the cracks with this extremely vulnerable list. Maybe you should try contact your gp. Although my aunt did that and was told even though my uncle must shield that "if he doesnt qualify under the list " then that's it!!
Let's hope it comes to light that many have fallen through the cracks. I guess we should all be contacting local MPs to bring it into focus.
I suggested my aunt she contacts age concern. To see if they can do anything. With your husband is there any info on the British liver trust site?
Xx
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My sister, who has bad asthma, received a text from her Surgery telling her to isolate. Luckily she is getting Sainsbury orders with not to much bother.
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Teresa. You make a good point. Being stuck indoors alone is still a small price to pay for keeping safe.
Sending love ❤
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I really feel for those who live alone at this time, especially if self isolating.
The thought of being stuck indoors with someone you don't get on with, or who is in anyway abusive, makes my blood run cold. They are the ones I really feel for.
JP x
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Thing is penny,on the news tonight it now says you CAN go for a drive as long as it's only 5 mins from your home,none of it makes any sense
yes I read that too jaypo but the person I mentioned did a 24 mile round trip.
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The 5 mile thing seems like an extension of lockdown. Keeping people in their own "zones"
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Is it 5 miles or 5 minutes??
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My bad. I misread it. X
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To be honest it probably works out the same either way.
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In our area it's 5 miles.
;)
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It definitely said ?a five minute drive?.
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That won't do vehicles any good at all ::) and I can't get anywhere in 5. mins. in our car.
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I remember whilst growing up people talking about what they would do when "The 4 minute warning went off" ::) of course men had different ideas to women ;-)
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Another thread coming on :D
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Sadly since people in China have begun circulating, another episode of admissions and deaths is being reported. I think that this will be the pattern World wide as immunity can take time to build. Apparently it begins 3-5 days after picking up the infection but B4 symptoms appear but it is not yet known how long immunity might last.
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Like we all had white paint around ::) more likely to be magnolia in the 1950s anyway ;D and Dad, being Him, would have to prepare properly first ::)
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Hope Mr Jillydoll I s doing ok
I have asthma and my original medications (pump + Tablets) are on the high risk category. I changed them myself not knowing I was classed as bad asthma so I have slipped through the net regarding the high risk letter
Also, hubby's work was pulled straight after Boris? lockdown speech last week and he is in the minority of help available over work drying up. We are both directors and sub contract to a builder where we draw minimum wage and take the rest in dividends. As a consequence we might be able to claim 80% furlough of min wage and universal credit. We have a telephone interview Monday and Wednesday about the UCredit
We've also had to apply for the interruption business loan and not sure whether we?ll get that. Our landlord is being understanding as we have to keep what little money we have left for food but will be racking up a debt there too
it's finished us financially really but we dint have anywhere to go so not sure what will happen to us in the near future
We've fallen out, made up, fallen out. it's just been so stressful as well as The worry of not catching this bloody virus
But at the end of the day so far we are still healthy x
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Annie0710 if you can get UC you should be able to get the housing benefit element. Depending on high your rent is it may or may not cover it completely, you should be able to look up how much they will pay in your area.
It's at times like this I'm grateful to live in the UK with the NHS and welfare state.
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Apply for anything that you think you may be entitled to [ ? might be ? :-\ ] 'cos sure as kittens are sweet, the government would take soon enough!
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Yep. DH read that yesterday.
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Hi Everyone.
Just a little update.
OH is doing ok. He's down on his oxygen, eating a tiny bit more, only enough to keep an ant alive, but it's more than before.
He's off intravenous ABs, and on oral now. He's been moved to a room on his own, they had four new people in, so had to move him and another man. He prefers being on his own anyway. Tests for covid, negative, but they?re testing again, they?re only 70% accurate anyway, according to the doctor. He's MRSA free, and HIV. ( I was thinking for a minute, he'd been living a double life or something) 🤣😂 ....they still don't know what pneumonia he has. So more tests are being done. They?re hoping he?ll be home midweek, IF he can manage without the oxygen. ......This is going to take a while to get over. But I'm sure we?ll do it. He's gone from being a candidate for Intensive Care, to MAYBE coming home in the week. So he's done fantastic.
Thanx ladies for your kind words, and support. Xxxxxx
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Ohh brilliant news, nice to be in a private room he can rest better with out disturbance from other patients.
:cheer:
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Hurrah for Mr jd. That is such good news.
JP x
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Thank you.
You wouldn't be saying that if you saw the state of me Jay. xx
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Excellent news! I'm really pleased. Xx
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PHEW! :drunk:
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Absolutely fantastic, what a huge relief for you all. :cancan:
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That's great news jillydoll
Best wishes to you and your family
Lanzalover x
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Really pleased to read this xxx
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It really beggars believe sometimes: talk about do as I do >:(
Police have issued a warning to Scotland's chief medical officer for visiting her second home in Fife during the coronavirus lockdown.
Dr Catherine Calderwood has been heavily criticised after pictures of her family trip to Earlsferry were published in The Scottish Sun.
She apologised "unreservedly" and said she would continue to focus on her job.
The high-profile medic has been among those urging the public to stay at home to save lives and protect the NHS.
Some MSPs have said her position is "untenable" but the first minister said Dr Calderwood's advice and expertise were "invaluable" and she should stay in post.
She should stand down. Surely :-\
and : A major US mask manufacturer, 3M, says the government has asked it to stop exporting US-made N95 respirator masks to Canada and Latin America.
The request had "significant humanitarian implications", it warned, and could prompt other countries to act in kind.
On Thursday, the US invoked the Korean War-era Defence Production Act to demand that 3M provide more masks.
Canada's prime minister said stopping 3M's exports would be a "mistake".
President Donald Trump said he had used the Defence Production Act to "hit 3M hard", without providing additional details. The law dates back to 1950 and allows a president to force companies to make products for national defence.
. Trump has already turned back equipement on their way to Germany >:(
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President Donald Trump said he had used the Defence Production Act to "hit 3M hard", without providing additional details. The law dates back to 1950 and allows a president to force companies to make products for national defence.
[/I]. Trump has already turned back equipement on their way to Germany >:(
The man is a Grade A knob! >:(
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;D. Don't hold back Barnacle.
I heard about the face masks nicked from Germany. Poached off the tarmac with a higher bid.
Marcle is furious. >:(
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So delighted jillydoll, all of you must be exhausted it's been a difficult time for you all. xx :foryou:
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Jillydoll, that's wonderful news. Take lots of care xx
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Thanks everyone.
Still a long way to go. Fingers crossed for mid week.
They tried earlier to take the oxygen off him, but his stats dropped. So they?re going to leave him on oxygen for a couple days, but on 1 now. Hopefully it?ll be successful in a day or two.
Xxxx
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Good news jollydoll - made my day :)
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Boris Johnson admitted to hospital.
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That is excellent news Jillydoll, fingers crossed x
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Boris ain't going to live? :-\. Why did they wait as long as today B4 taking him in? He looked ill yesterday.
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Good news jillydoll!
Terrible news about poor old Boris. He looked really ill on TV the other night. Fingers crossed he recovers too.
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Boris ain't going to live? :-\. .
I hope he does, i don't want to go through another bloody election! ;)
Seriously though, i hope he is ok. Isn't his fiancee ill too?
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Thank you. Everyone.
I've got loads of worries now. When is this going to be over? :'( :'(
Yes, Boris's fianc? is poorly too. 🤦♀️
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Thanx Theresa. Hope your ok. xx
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She's GONE ;D stood down :-X
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I must say I do get a bit fed up all these celebrities telling us what we MUST do,hands up who has a swimming pool in their garden'tennis court?anyone?no? What about these families who are cooped up in a small flat 'then hearing that that Dr mp who is telling everyone to STAY INDOORS then goes to her second home not just once but TWICE a week,then calls it human error,no,that's NOT human error,that is total disregard of the rules that are in place for EVERYONE
Sorry ladies,just a bit fed up of it all :'(
The Royals are just as bad. Charles and Camilla cleared off to Scotland, William, Kate, 3 kids and their staff all came here to Norfolk. The Queen And DOE are living together for the first time in years away from their main residence. If they really mean ?we are all in this together? then they should have stayed at home too.
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They are at home ;D
What we don't see under usual circumstances is the amount of travelling that the Royal Family do weekly when they are carrying out their Duties. If 1 reads the Palace News in the Telegraph every morning, we can get an idea as to what they are paid to do!
Teresa - not odd at all. Why not? My Dad often wrote to me whilst he was in hospital for months at a time, I regret not keeping the letters now :'(
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I agree. Same with photos. Get those names, dates and details on the back of photos!!
Has anyone heard from Prof whatshisname who was off sick ? him on the Advert advising us to stay at home?
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Oh Jillydoll I Hope starts to breathe better unaided, what a rollercoaster
On our financial situation we had a phone interview regarding our UC application today. We are entitled to it , not sure about housing benefit but man sounded very optimistic . I have deferred council tax for 2 months and UC are sending us ?200 emergency loan that we pay pack after this interest-free, he said we can ask for more if needed as we won't receive any credit until beginning May.
We've never claimed benefits before so this is a new experience . Still waiting to find out how we try to furlough one of us too
Stay safe everyone x
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Hi Jillydoll
So please to hear your husband is turning the corner, and hopefully even better today. Stay strong!
Hurdity x
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I have people speaking to me about my Dad, he made an impression. Apparently 8)
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I had this email today and I thought you might be interested in it as it highlights health concerns caused directly by how the crisis is handled. It also might explain what happens to patients like JDs husband.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/06/covid-with-of-or-because-of/#comments
COVID. ?With? ?Of? or ?Because of?
7 Replies
6th April 2020
Here is a section from the Health Service Journal (HSJ) in the UK, discussing the current fears of NHSE (NHS England). The article is behind a paywall.
NHS England is an executive non-departmental public body of the Department of Health and Social Care. NHS England oversees the budget, planning, delivery and day-to-day operation of the commissioning side of the NHS in England as set out in the Health and Social Care Act 2012>/p>
Exclusive: NHSE to act over fears covid-19 focus could 'do more harm than virus?
?NHS England analysts have been tasked with the challenging task of identifying patients who may not have the virus but may be at risk of significant harm or death because they are missing vital appointments or not attending emergency departments, with both the service and public so focused on covid-19.
A senior NHS source familiar with the programme told HSJ: ?There could be some very serious unintended consequences [to all the resource going into fighting coronavirus]. While there will be a lot of covid-19 fatalities, we could end up losing more ?years of life? because of fatalities relating to non-covid-19 health complications.
?What we don't want to do is take our eye off the ball in terms of all the core business and all the other healthcare issues the NHS normally attends to.
?People will be developing symptoms of serious but treatable diseases, babies will be born which need immunising, and people will be developing breast lumps and need mammograms.??
Nuffield Trust deputy director of research Sarah Scobie said it was ?a considerable worry that people are keeping away from routine and urgent health services, and also from emergency departments?.
She added: ?The PHE (public health England) data suggests there could be significant problems already developing for heart disease related conditions patients, for example. Attendances relating to myocardial infarction at emergency departments have dropped right down, whereas ambulance calls in relation to chest pain have gone right [up].?
I suppose my first response would not be one of great surprise. In fact, it confirms what I have been saying for some time. When the great Swine Flu epidemic (that killed hardly anyone) created the last pandemic crisis in the UK, exactly the same thing happened. If, whatever you were suffering from, wasn't Swine Flu, it didn't seem to matter.
In my small part of the world a small but significant number of people were diagnosed with Swine Flu. This was done over the phone, by poorly trained operatives. These people were then prescribed the (almost entirely useless Tamiflu), they then died. It turned out that they had other conditions that could, and would, have been properly treated had we not been overcome by a massive over-reaction to Swine Flu. They died because of swine flu.
Last week, in Intermediate Care, we sent two patients into the local hospital who were seriously ill. They were both sent back almost immediately. They both died. Yes, they were ill, and may have died anyway. But I believe they should both have been admitted, and treated, and they could both still be alive. They died because of COVID.
Ambulance crews are under very heavy pressure not to admit anyone unless absolutely necessary. Some of those, not admitted, will die.
These people, all these people, are dying ?because of? COVID. Because of the fact that almost the entire focus of the NHS is now on COVID ? to the virtual exclusion of anything else.
Our local hospital now has more empty beds than at any time in history. Elective surgery has stopped, to free up resources. There is enormous managerial pressure to clear more and more people out of hospital, out of Intermediate Care beds, back home with little support available. Some of them will die because of this.
My last blog focussed on the economic costs of the reaction to COVID. My argument was that economics, and health, do not exist in isolate bubbles. Harm to the economy will result in harm to health and vice-versa.
Equally, if you spend all your healthcare resources trying to treat one thing, everything else will suffer, because resources are not infinite. At present we have virtually shut down the NHS to deal with COVID.
I saw several patients yesterday while I was working in ?out of hours?, who were not critically ill, but they were ill. Two of them, I felt, really needed to be followed up. A girl with weight loss over the last three months, a man with clear signs in his chest that could have been malignant.
They will not be followed up any time soon. If at all.
At present there is a lot of discussion about how we are categorising deaths from COVID. Anyone who dies, having been diagnosed with COVID, is considered to have died of COVID. Even if they died of something else. The died with COVID, not of COVID.
There is, I believe, an even greater immediate problem here. Which is those who are dying because of COVID. This is not just me saying this, this is NHS England:
?While there will be a lot of covid-19 fatalities, we could end up losing more ?years of life? because of fatalities relating to non-covid-19 health complications.?
For many years, there has been an old medical joke. It will not make you laugh out loud, but it goes like this.
?The operation was a success, unfortunately the patient died.?
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A bit of bad news I'm afraid.
OH had a set back last night. His oxygen levels dropped, he had fevers again, and wasn't very good at all. ....so, doctors have put intravenous AB back in, and highered his oxygen.
He may be moved to the respiratory ward, as ANOTHER covid19 test came back negative.!!!!
We don't think he ever had covid to start with. It was pneumonia all the time! But I admit, symptoms are very similar. ....🤷♀️
So him coming home mid week has been postponed. :'( :'(
All that what shady posted, IS exactly right. I'm saddened to say, but it's true.
Paramedics even told us, they?re limiting the amount of people they take in. They have to try to prioritise. 🤦♀️
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Time they sorted this jillydoll! Too much is focussing on this new Virus. How many people will die with it rather than because of it? That's been my query for weeks. Men die with prostate cancer, not because of it. Every day. Terminology has become lax and lazy with regards C-19.
You must be knackered Jillydoll :'( bugga it, have a :hug:
Which is where isolation hospitals would help. Now these Nightingale Hospitals - when will patients be taken there? Care Homes are not sending the elderly to hospital: I wonder what happens if one falls? They don't have to be admitted, Mum fell in Jan and was treated/observed in A&E.
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Sorry to hear that jd. Sending love.have they taken samples to try to establish which ab to give him?
Xxx
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JD so sorry to read this. I really hope they can work out what type of pneumonia he has, and how to treat it.
Now that they have some isolation hospitals lets hope it will help others get the treatment they need for other illnesses.
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President Donald Trump said he had used the Defence Production Act to "hit 3M hard", without providing additional details. The law dates back to 1950 and allows a president to force companies to make products for national defence.
[/I]. Trump has already turned back equipement on their way to Germany >:(
The man is a Grade A knob! >:(
It seems they are now saying it was a misunderstanding and actually to stop price gouging!?! I was horrified when I first read about that however I saw a couple of posts where people were saying that given the number of people that have tested positive in the US compared to the rest of the world their need for masks at this time was greater. Not sure how I feel about that, but I do think we have to start thinking of this as a worldwide problem that we should be tackling together because we need every country to be free of it, not just our own.
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Thanks,Jay. X
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Sending healing thoughts for your husband, Jilly xxx
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getting_old - that's not how it came over in the News. The Contract with Germany was signed and sealed then Trump recalled the delivery. What's Germany going to do about it :-\
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Crikey, poor Boris has been moved to Intensive Care.
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Oh Dear :-\ we can't have a General Election !
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Oh Dear :-\ we can't have a General Election !
???
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Seven oil workers on a North Sea platform showing signs of coronavirus are due to be flown ashore.
They reported "mild symptoms" of Covid-19 and have been self-isolating on the North Cormorant installation, about 110 miles (177km) north east of Lerwick, Shetland.
Oil firm Taqa said those who had close contact with them would also be taken off the platform.
For goodness sake :-\
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Why would we have a general election? We elect a government not a Prime Minister. At worst it would be Raab and then a leadership election.
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PHEW! tnx.
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Aw Jillydoll I am sending positive vibes to you
Xx
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So very sorry to read this jillydoll.
Sending you love and good wishes.Stay strong.
Lanzalover x
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Thank you everyone. Xx
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xx jillydoll
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Hello Jillydoll.
I'm so sorry to learn that your husband has had a setback. I know a few people who have had pneumonia and each of them made a full recovery. I had it myself as a teenager and I recall feeling awful during that time.
Take care and sending hugs.
K.
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Thank you CLKD and Kathleen. xx
He had a bad night up to about 3am.
That's all I know up to now.
Will ring doctor later, they?re VERY busy up to about 2ish.
They've told him he's not going home until he can maintain oxygen levels of around 94%.
Which seems miles away because yesterday, after he'd been to the toilet, they dropped to 88,
He said, the alarms went off, nurses came running in, .....they put his oxygen mask back on, and he got back up to 92. ........so, see what today brings.
Thank you all for your well wishes.
Tbh, I just don't know how I'm carrying on. This is day 18 of him being poorly.
It seems much longer than that.
Take care everyone, stay safe!
Xxxx
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xx it certainly seems a lot longer :-\. How R U?
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Oh you know, trying to keep busy.
Holding on to hope.
Feeling rubbish, but somehow keeping going.
it's like something kicks in, I suppose. Makes you carry on.
Not sleeping much, but obviously getting enough, cuz under normal circumstances with this amount of sleep I'm getting, I'd be on my knees by now.
I'm eating as much as I can. Think I've lost about 5 kg, but that's the last thing I'm worried about. I know I have to be strong, for my son and MIL.
She's holding up ok. Considering she has poor health.
Maybe having to look after her, is a blessing, keeps my mind busy. Xxxx
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Sending you a huge hug, and i'm keeping you all in my thoughts xx
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Gove self isolating. Family member has symptoms.
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Gove self isolating. Family member has symptoms.
Given the way in which so many people in Parliament have tested positive, I wonder whether Gove has actually had it but perhaps asymptomatic and then passed it to the family member. Boris shook so many hands and they often stood quite close to him. If I had shaken his hand just before he went into isolation, I'd be a bit concerned now.
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Yes, I don't know how well the government were actually following their own advice. :-\
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Don't do as I do ?
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UK death toll yesterday highest so far. Sadly 854 deaths. Terrible!
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Against how many confirmed cases and against how many have recovered and left Hospital?
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BBC are reporting 786, a very large number but hopefully we are near the peak :'(
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The figures are skewed. Because not every case is reported other than those who die in Hospital. Care home numbers are not added for weeks apparently.
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In hospital not in the community. Care Homes aren't being monitored particularly well at present so it can be 10 days+ B4 their rate is added to the figures.
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https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/history-of-major-virus-outbreaks-in-the-uk-in-recent-times-39009641.html
Spanish Flu (1918-19) - 200,000
Hong Kong Flu (1968-69) - 80,000
Asian Flu (1957-58) - 33,000
Swine Flu (2009-10) - 457
It puts it into perspective a little. These are just UK deaths.
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Theres definitely a lack of perspective in the reporting.
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I think that the daily reports are to encourage others to 'stay at home' without the government of the day realising what that might mean for most people, particularly those in Hi-rise or countryside.
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The chief executive of NHS England was being praised on the news yesterday, surely he's more to blame for shortages in PPE and not the various MPs I've seen attacked ?
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Public Health England isn't fit for purpose ::) this is when we find out how many layers the NHS actually pays!
Many could be cut ............
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Hello ladies.
In 2016 the government received a report detailing what the NHS would need in the event of a pandemic. This was done after we had swine flu and the scientists were convinced that another, similar virus would appear. Jeremy Hunt was the Minister for health and his response was to ignore the findings because the government was applying it's austerity programme. Other countries commissioned their own reports and Germany decided to prepare by investing in testing equipment, PPE and ventilators etc.
Our medics are truly heroic but it breaks my heart to see how they have been struggling. They deserve so much better and when all this is over I hope they are rewarded and our NHS properly funded.
Take care everyone and stay safe.
K.
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Sadly the governments of the day have cut back and cut back ............ and this will probably soon be forgotten by the next government. When I left the NHS in 1983 beds were being cut ......... in a small Hospital. Since then someone decided in their wisdom to fine Health Authorities if they didn't meet 'targets' WTF ....... these targets put into place by people who had NEVER worked in the NHS not even as cleaners >:(
I know several NHS staff that have left due to unsafe working conditions: not enough qualified staff, not enough equipment or PPE. Most went to New Zealand, Oz or South Africa.
These targets were never going to help the NHS but the governments of the day failed to listen to the Consultants etc. who worked at the front line. Every day our NHS is struggling with lack of beds, lack of guidance and understanding from the top, lack of equipment: if the public were aware of how many pieces of equipment are stored in corridors/basements because the governments won't fund staff to run them .......... now perhaps the public will get behind the NHS by beginning at their local MPs offices and shout, shout, shout ........ even if Taxes have to rise.
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That simply isn't good enough is it :-\. Because 'they' thought that it wouldn't happen, so were all on a 'jolly' at the Public's expense?
And several residents dying in a care home in Bedfordshire :'(.
R Tubes still running, that was an accident waiting to happen surely >:(
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We had one of the worst intensive care bed ratios in Europe, before the virus, so no wonder we are in trouble.
Ten years of NHS underfunding is costing us dear now.
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Hi Everyone.
Good news, ...he's on the mend. ( I said this last time, and I jinxed him)
After a couple days of not getting very far, he's starting to eat more, and feels better.
His oxygen levels are still being monitored closely, but have been lowered.
He's sitting out in the chair more often too.
Hopefully, maybe the weekend or beginning of next week he?ll be home.
Covid was not detected at all, he had a bacterial pneumonia, BUT because all this covid is going on, they automatically assumed he had it.
He has to self isolate for seven days when he gets home, just to be safe.
I cannot open his bags with all the washing in them, for 72 hours. Just incase there's any bugs on them. They think after this time they will be dead, if there is any, then they can be washed, on a hot wash. Doc said it?ll take weeks and weeks for him to fully recover, he had a very bad pneumonia, upper and lower lungs filled with it, both lungs too.
He's been very, very, lucky. I'm so glad we called that last ambulance when we did, had we not of, I shudder to think what would've happened.
So onwards and upwards, keeping fingers crossed he doesn't relapse again. But he's certainly better than he was.
Xx
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Good news JD. Better to be lucky than rich.
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So pleased for your news - do you have access to a chest freezer? If so put his washing into plastic bags and his bags into the freezer for a week B4 washing. From frozen to a boil wash should kill anything lurking.
I think the whole issue was badly handled, jillydoll - no one should be assumed to have C-19 ......... this put his treatment back by days ...... they say that C-19 survivors will take 6 months to recover and one is saying that after being on a breathing machine, she has to remember to breath. It's also the psychological side of it to ..........
Hopefully the Hospital won't discharge him until he is much much better!
10+ years Shadyglade :'( - I came out in the 1980s and monies were being withdrawn then, if annual allocation hadn't been spent by the Hospital within the 12 months, it was assumed that they weren't required so the next year less was allocated. With all the improvements in health care more money should have been inveested, not taken away. :(.
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Oh good news, I hope he realises he's got women all over the UK wishing him well ;D
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Wow, that's brilliant news jillydoll, so pleased!
JP x
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Thanks everyone...... Yes, shady, who needs money when your happy! x
Yes, great news, praying now he continues. it's been a hard slog for us, Christ knows for him.
It was badly handled, I agree, but I think the NHS is on its knees, and so, so worried about this covid, that everything else is set aside. Maybe that's harsh, it's on the front line, and so many people with it, they?re overwhelmed, and all they?re thinking about IS covid.
But after three tests, all negative, they?re thinking he didn't have it to start with, but that was just one doctor who told us that, who has been amazing, not sure other doctors would have the same opinion. His pneumonia mimicked the same symptoms as covid, and because covid leaves people with pneumonia, no wonder they thought it was it. Who really knows, after all, the tests are only 70% accurate anyway. ..🤷♀️
The main thing is, they've sorted him out, and that doctor has been brilliant, she really took the time to talk to us, explain things, and give us her time. I just wish I could give her a massive hug and say thank you, face to face.
So girls, a few more prayers off you all please, just until he gets home.
And for me, 😆 I'm totally wrecked, so tired out, anxiety higher than usual, and some days have been really hard. You can imagine, I haven't had a good day today really, it's like everything's caught up with me. So I'm hoping tomorrow will be better after I get some sleep.
Sleep? What's that when it's at home? 😆😂
Jaypos been amazing, she was always there for me, always nosey, 😂🤣 and you know what Jay?
never mind your 'two meals for a fiver? lady, I'm having a porterhouse steak! 🤣😂
Thanks for all your well wishes, means a lot .
Stay safe ladies. xxxxx
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Thank you Joaniepat. xx
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Jillydoll, I bet you'll sleep better tonight now you've had some good news, hope so anyway. Sweet dreams 😴 xx
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Lovely news. x
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It is so reassuring to read such clear-headed, logical and sensible posts about corona here. Thank you. I am so tired of the hysteria, skewed statistics and useless politicians in this horrific time and it seems that a fair few of you on here are too.
I do not think that anyone is putting these deaths into context. How much higher is the death rate to normal? How many people are dying due to not getting adequate treatment for other conditions? Is the suicide/abuse/crime rate going up and, if so, how many lives are being lost due to this? Are lockdown measures helping in the short term and long term?
I don't know. I wish I could believe the media but I am not sure I do. I know that this is a horrendous situation but I have two friends that work in hospitals and they say that it is extremely quiet. They are both very worried that people are not receiving adequate care for other conditions.
I appreciate the information about deaths from other flu strains. Thank you whoever posted those.
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That's fantastic news Jilly, i will be kepping you all in my thoughts xx
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Really glad to hear you good news Jillydoll xx
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Great news jd :cancan: Stress stops you sleeping, hopefully you'll get some rest now.
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Thanx ladies. xxxx
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Just caught up with your good news Jillydoll.
So pleased for you all.
Hope you get a decent night's sleep, you deserve it :foryou:
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Good morning jillydoll
This is such wonderful news hopefully your now well on to having him back home with you.It must be awful not being able to see him.
You have been an absolute star throughout this awful time and you deserve a 🏅 and a :foryou: I am full of admiration for you.
I do hope you managed to sleep a little last night.
Sending good well wishes to you both
Love Lanzalover x
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So pleased to read your news Jilly xx :cancan:
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Aww thanx girls.
I slept from around 12 til 5 this morning, dozed back off, then awake since 7 .
So not bad.
I am tired, in fact I'm knackered. But as long as everything's going the way it should be, I dont care. I can always catch up on sleep at different times.
It has been stressful not being able to go see him, but we text, and rang him, so that was ok.
Thanx for your lovely messages ladies. Means a lot to me. xx
Take care everyone!
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So pleased JD, he?ll soon be home and things can get back to ?normal?.
Can you FaceTime? Then you can at least see him.
LM xx
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Hi Jillydoll - just catching up on here - so pleased to read that your husband is on the mend! You must be so relieved and looking forward to having him home soon. However more than ever he must be protected from Covid-19 since if he hasn't had it he could still be susceptible....hope you get some sleep tonight! All the best.
Hurdity x
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Public Health England isn't fit for purpose ::) this is when we find out how many layers the NHS actually pays!
Many could be cut ............
Can you elaborate? Public Health England is not part of NHS but is a Government organisation.
The chief executive of NHS England was being praised on the news yesterday, surely he's more to blame for shortages in PPE and not the various MPs I've seen attacked ?
....because of years of underfunding so MPs (maybe not the current ones?) and particualr recent govern,ments ar most definitely to blame, and especially for ignoring their own pandemic simulation exercises which highlighted the need for more preparedness, which of course requires investment. That does not happen under years of Tory Governments.
Hurdity x
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The NHS has been under-funded and under-staffed since the 1970s under successive governments. Regardless of colour. I've been involved with the NHS as a patient, as a child watching my Dad being treated, as an NHS worker ........ cut backs, cut backs, cut backs; then someone decided that 'care in the community' would cut NHS 'costs'. >:(
Charle Moore of the Telegraph ......... can't post links. I didn't suggest that Public Health England is part of the NHS :-\
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It is so reassuring to read such clear-headed, logical and sensible posts about corona here. Thank you. I am so tired of the hysteria, skewed statistics and useless politicians in this horrific time and it seems that a fair few of you on here are too.
I do not think that anyone is putting these deaths into context. How much higher is the death rate to normal? How many people are dying due to not getting adequate treatment for other conditions? Is the suicide/abuse/crime rate going up and, if so, how many lives are being lost due to this? Are lockdown measures helping in the short term and long term?
I don't know. I wish I could believe the media but I am not sure I do. I know that this is a horrendous situation but I have two friends that work in hospitals and they say that it is extremely quiet. They are both very worried that people are not receiving adequate care for other conditions.
I appreciate the information about deaths from other flu strains. Thank you whoever posted those.
You can find information about excess deaths due to coronavirus on the website of the Office For National Statistics. These are published weekly but there is a two week lag so the latest data refer to the week ending march 27th when the numbers of deaths had yet to soar as it has frighteningly done recently: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27march2020
These data will include deaths where Covid-19 has been put as cuase of death on the death certificate but may not have been confirmed by testing ( this was discussed recently on another thread).
Also there are plenty of websites that provide the data so one can bypass the media. The Department of Health and Social Care provides daily figures on new tested cases, and also deaths from CV-19 in hopsital. Numerous indivudals in twitter also provided lots of graphs of various stats to look at.
I agree and I think it has been ackonwledged that it is shocking that as a product of this crisis there will be indirect deaths due to the focusing of the health service on the immediate situation re CV-19.
Hurdity x
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Hi all, Jillydoll that is fantastic news re OH on the mend! So delighted for you all as it must have been a horrendous time for you. Make sure you do catch upon your sleep and take time to just relax (easier said than done). Wish him a speedy discharge from hospital and recovery at home. xx
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Hopefully Mr jillydoll has improved over night :tulips2:
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GROUNDHOG - do you have a garden? This doesn't mean stay indoors despite what the press and news readers keep banging at us!
How R U coping being together ?
good expression stellajane - pulling together against governments who have NO IDEA - different specialities have to be organised against the chaos caused by those who have never seen an RTA arrive at A&E ........... how Teams actually work for the benefit of patients :-\
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Hello ladies.
I wonder if part of the problem with the NHS is that it isn't one organisation any more. It's been broken up into small businesses who either compete for clients (meaning patients) or try and avoid them to protect their budgets. Certainly since 2012 outsourcing the NHS has been government policy. The one thing all the various services use is the NHS logo because people have faith in the brand! I've read comments by retired doctors and civil servants saying that when the NHS was truly a national organisation resources could be redirected easily but sadly that isn't possible now.
I'm amazed that some people think that the rules don't apply to them. Politicians aren't the only ones. Stanley Johnson has gone to his holiday home in Devon and Gordon Ramsey was pictured on the coast with his family.
A wealthy American woman once said that taxes were for the little people. Maybe the same applies to rules and regulations.
Wishing you all well ladies.
K
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Where is the Home Secretary???
:worm:
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Where is the Home Secretary???
:worm:
I wondered that, apparently she is not popular with the public so she's keeping a low profile :o
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Groundhog has said somewhere On here that she is shielding and can't go for a walk, she is quite right.
Unless you have had this letter from the government you won't understand the restrictions. I have had one and it clearly states you can open a window, but not go out.
Now how stringent you take this advice is obviously personal, I am sitting and pottering in the back garden as we do not have close neighbours , but I'm not even venturing into front garden. I have taken the view that if they are identifying me as extremely vulnerable then the least I can do is try and stay out of hospital and using precious bed.
As for shopping, all 3 major supermarkets have text me to say they have been contacted by gov recognising me as needing a home delivery.
My husband cannot go out, he is in the next group below me, but my letter also advises anyone else living in house not to go out.
it's very hard, but necessary.
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:thankyou: Milly ..........
Nicely put Kathleen. :thankyou:
Who is the Home Secretary :-\ and what do they do when they are up and dressed?
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:thankyou: Milly ..........
Nicely put Kathleen. :thankyou:
Who is the Home Secretary :-\ and what do they do when they are up and dressed?
??? :o
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You don't know either then Shadyglade ;D
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You don't know either then Shadyglade ;D
OH, yes I know, but I wish I didn't. Hopefully her absence is a sign she will get the 'heave oh' soon.
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Well that's a start: she's a she then ;D
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Priti Patel, she was in the news recently because of bullying claims against her :-\
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Oh TH, you've spoilt it. I was waiting for CLKD to remember or find out.
Game over. ;D
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:rofl:
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She is a one shady piece of nastiness, and hopefully we will never see her again, doubt it though!
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She is a one shady piece of nastiness, and hopefully we will never see her again, doubt it though!
I can't stand her and would love to not see her again but suspect that she will reappear before long.
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:rofl: didn't win the initiative test then did I ;D
Can't understand why she is still part of the Government :-X
A lady was shown on the News today who has recovered :-*
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That's what they want us to hear. I think that if they lay it on thickly people will stay at home over this Bank Holiday though if you read the News from Manchester :o
I've had every symptom except the temp. and no shortage of breathing since I don't know when . ::)
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Is it just me? Maybe someone can explain this to me but just watched the press conference from the care home that has tragically lost 15 residents. The staff were standing shoulder to shoulder and then..hugged and kissed each other. !!
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So, are people still getting the mild version?
All we hear of now are those who get very sick and need hospitalisation.
My vet had his first day back at work today after catching it. Considered mild but he said it was something he wouldn't want again. Four days in bed. High fever. Drenching sweats. Followed by feeling breathless with what felt like spiky gravel in his throat. He's very pleased to have got through it. He's late fifties. It's easy to forget that people are recovering especially the under 60s apparently. Wish I was a bit younger! :)
Taz x
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Lots of Police being shown on TV are not distancing either from colleagues or the Public. >:(
The scratchy throat is one of the main symptoms apparently but hasn't been in the news much. I often get that when I have a cold ...... it's awful, like yep, gravel. Where did *he* get it from Taz?
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It's awful seeing dairy farmers throwing thousands of litres of milk away, because the tankers aren't arriving also not helped by all the hospitality outlets closed. Even we are throwing milk away my hubby is the only who uses milk, I usually just buy 1 pint but at the moment can only get 2 pint bottles it's all just such a waste.
At least Boris Johnson is out of intensive care
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Clapping very poor round here this evening. It's got less each week. Someone is playing "when a hero comes along " very loud and setting off fireworks though.
Xx
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There are goat farmers that may have to cull as they are throwing milk away because the hospitality industry has closed.
I am clapped out. This might go on for months++ ........
Care Homes didn't shut immediately so anyone could have taken the Virus in. Where Mum is they locked down, the 1st team had 4 weeks continuously, the 2nd team of 7 :o are starting tonight. Usually there are 2 on at night for 25 residents which fills me with horror :o :-\ and I have no idea where they are all sleeping - hopefully not doubling up with the residents or Mum will go ape .......... might do her good actually ;D
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Sorry to back track!
Priti Patel........🤬
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I wish they'd get their act together. Farmers throwing milk away while the co-op is restricting how much you can buy.
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Oh that's weird jillydoll, I was thinking about you as I pressed 'go' for my last response ;D
Remind me, who is she when she's up and dressed :whist:
Really sheila99? Maybe take the headlines to the Co-op when shopping? there's supposed to be no problem with the supply chain :(
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There is a surplus of milk because the restaurants, hotels, caf's etc., are closed. It's not a supply chain problem.
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You just can't fix stupid can you?
We have young neighbours with a baby just a couple of months old. Tonight they stood on their doorstep clapping for the NHS. That's fine but they have their friends round and there they all are standing shoulder to shoulder clapping like a load of seals. One friend comes every evening and sits out there with them smoking.
Do they not realise they could be causing MORE trouble for the NHS, possibly deaths?
I just give up.
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So why are supermarkets still limiting how much we can buy if it's not a supply problem?
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So, are people still getting the mild version?
All we hear of now are those who get very sick and need hospitalisation.
I don't think there are different versions? It's just that apparently 80% of people get the disease midlly while the remainder get more sick for various reasons, partly due to age, general health, strength of immune system, other health conidtions, initial viral load possibly etc
The answer is - that a large proportion of this 80% are untested and inconfirmed. Like I said in another thread - two of my children + son-in-law had it mildly ( in 20's and 30's) but won't show in any stats (although I encouraged them to register with NHS 111 online so that at least their suspected cases could be reported).
There have been quite a few cases around here in SW England - a cluster in the next village, one of our next door neighbours etc etc. They don't shout about it and no-one knows about them. They are not reflected in the daily Local Authority figures as these are the ones tested of which the majority are the ones who end up in hospital (although testing is now increasing....). However the number of deaths and hospital inpatients are v low in the SW. It's still here though, hopefully now reducing as we're mostly confined to our villages or small towns!
Hurdity x
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As well as healthy people getting sudden symptoms and being at Death's door in a matter of hours. :'(. It was initially attacking people with other health issues but now .........
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Do you think they are not pushing the mask idea in case there is a run on them and then a shortage?
Just wanted to say too that I've looked back at the start of this thread in January first post about 4 people being tested in Scotland. How life has changed for every single one of us since then. Not even 3 months. And what a timeline of events this thread is.
Stay safe and love to all xxx
X
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I'm a keyworker (I'm a Housng Association Scheme Manager). Many of our residents are vulnerable and have dementia, LD and mental health. I've just had the most exhausting week with a dementia patient who cannot retain the information to keep her safe and is wandering everywhere, touching everything and doesn't understand re social distancing. Worst of all though is her family who refuse to believe c-virus is a threat and that her wandering is her human right. I doubt we?ll ever get this situation under control with attitudes like these - who was it said you can't fix stupid, I despair x
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Crikey perin. What an impossible situation. How stressful for you and the other staff.
It's all well and good for her family to say it's her right to wander because they are not the ones having to deal with it day in and out. Like you are. They should have more respect and be eternally grateful that you are trying to keep her and others safe.
It must be exhausting. Please look after yourself. Sending you love xxxx
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Priti Patel
Nobody has seen her.
I heard she was 'smirking? from home!
boom boom! ;D
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:rofl:
As of the State of Emergency all that Human Rights stuff is over ridden. There is indeed a grey area in the care sector about allowing people to wander 'of their own free will' and in keeping them safe from themselves and to protect others. Hopefully Perin there are no visitors, you are in lockdown? Don't despair, you are doing your best.
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Thanks ladies I am isolating in my office. But of course I have to go out and about in the building to do H&S checks to meet compliance, and this poor resident is wandering around bewildered. I send her back to her flat but 15 minutes later she's out again! it's not her fault of course she's just in the wrong place, but without the family on board there's nothing we can do. Looking forward to a few days off from it all over the Easter break - I need it x
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It might be less about the fam telling her and more about them agreeing to other action to keep her safe. When my MIL was in nursing home with dementia and was constantly putting herself in danger they asked the fam for permission to sedate her. I imagine its a contentious issue.
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My father was in a care home with dementia before he died a couple of years ago. My mum went to see him everyday. I can't think how distressing that would be now with no visitors and my dad not understanding and my mum even more distressed. It's unbearable. My heart goes out to people. X
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Hi Stellajane yes I am. The problem is re guidelines and my residents: some can't remember/some don't understand/and some don't want to do it. It?ll be a miracle if we escape the virus x
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Sending love perin. Hope you get to recharge over the weekend.
My sis MIL went into a and e last night. My sis originally called ambulance on Tuesday but they didnt take her then. Temp 100. She was in a bad way. Today they've said its covid. They said they can tell from lung scan. But they have estimated her at day 10 and said she will be unlikely to need ICU after day 10 so have transferred her to another hospital which doesnt have an ITU.
I thought Boris went in on day 10 and then got worse?
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So many upsets, so many variations on treatments. If necessary she will be sent back but it is probably considered safer for her to be elsewhere. A worry non the less.
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Particularly staff on the front line.
Someone who has recovered says it will take a while to recover mentally but I think that as the days go by and he continues to improve, once he has fresh air and family plus routine, it may not be as long term as he fears.
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Did you see the Linda Lusardi interview on GMB yesterday (on YouTube too) ? I can totally understand how it can take a long time mentally as well as physically to get over this
Back n 2008/9 over Christmas and new year I had double pneumonia and pleurisy. All misdiagnosed for a while and on quite a few weeks Of antibiotics and couldn't be hospitalised as it was a bad year in our area for flu. Dr said at the time that I?ll need to give myself time mentally as well as physically to recover as I'd lost 12 weeks due to it
it's the only time in my life I've felt like giving in , there were many times I admitted to myself I didn't have much left in me to fight x
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Thank goodness you got through it annie. Xxx
I've been reading a bit today which I have been avoiding for a while but I'm a,bit confused. How are people who have been self isolating for nearly 3 weeks suddenly testing positive? If they already had virus at beginning of lockdown and it's still testing positive nearly 3 weeks,later then doesnt this make a,mockery of sending people back to work 7 days after the onset of symptoms?
The WHO recommended 14 days after symptoms disappear!!!I
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Do you mean social distancing rather than self isolation? I haven't read anything about this so not sure what you mean. :-\
Taz x :)
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Absolutely right tc. It seems most unlikely someone with symptoms won't be spreading it 7 days after the start of symptoms. Looks like another one where the WHO are right and the government wrong.
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Aww Annie, I really feel for you. I'm so glad you recovered. Physically anyway, hope you've learnt to live with it mentally.
I'm hoping my OH recovers mentally, of course, not seeing him properly for the last 4 weeks I can't really get an insight into him, if you know what I mean.
He's doing ok, hopefully home tomorrow, but we?re told it's going to take quite a while to recover properly, let alone mentally. He's been off oxygen now for two days, still gets breathless if he moves around to quickly. So they?re seeing how he is tomorrow morning, and if he's ok, he can come home. We've to monitor his blood pressure and watch his breathing, and if he gets into difficulties we've to ring an ambulance and hopefully they?ll get here to administer oxygen. But we?re hoping it won't come to that. He may have to have his lungs cleaned out after his scan in 4 weeks, because pneumonia leaves a lot of debris behind. 🤷♀️
But we?ll see about that then. Just before his turn for the better, he looked and thought he had no fight left in him. But luckily for him, and us, he turned around and started to feel better. it's been horrific! I think my mental scares will be with me forever. I'm terrified of catching this bloody virus, absolutely terrified, after seeing what happened to him. And still we don't know properly if he had it or not. The fourth test was done, still negative!
Until the antibodies are detected in his blood from tests I don't think we've even got yet , we?ll never know.
And STILL people are going out! .......what do they say? Ignorance is bliss,? ...ignorance can kill you mate! 😡
Hope your all well, stay safe . Xxxx
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OH Jillydoll, i really hope that he is back with you tomorrow, and then you can all begin to heal together. Stay strong lovely lady xx
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Hiya jilly. I'm so glad he is coming home . May I ask, are they not able to provide oxygen at home in case he needs it?
Sending love xx
Do you mean social distancing rather than self isolation? I haven't read anything about this so not sure what you mean. :-\
Taz x :)
.hiya,taz. I read this article
https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/coronavirus-grandmother-isolated-three-weeks-4014032.amp?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15865558961240&_ct=1586555902548&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hulldailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fhull-east-yorkshire-news%2Fcoronavirus-grandmother-isolated-three-weeks-4014032
And another one today which I cant seem to share. Basically saying it mustve been in their system for 3 weeks. Maybe they are not true. . But even so, I dont understand how someone like my sisters MIL is considered still infectious on day 10 but my sister was able to go back to work after 7 days. There is a discrepancy around how long someone remains infectious for.
WHO recommended weeks,ago that quarantine should continue 14 days after symptoms DISAPPEAR. Whereas our 7 days are counted from the onset of symptoms.
. I also dont believe at the start of lockdown we were adequately informed of how quickly people can become dangerously sick after several days. We were told not to call 999 with covid symptoms,so people have hung on at home when they wouldnt have normally. . Or like JDs OH and my sis MIL even when they called an ambulance they werent taken in and were left at home for several more days.
Xx
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Jillydoll I think the best thing you and hubby can do is talk about the experience from both your sides, how you both felt etc
I was with an idiot when I was ill, he was a hopeless carer, stupid spokesperson and just generally useless . I don't think he understood the seriousness of the illness. I used to have to go early appointments at gp and Remember just turning up in pjs and slippers . I had to have regular xrays to check the infection. I remember having to walk around the landing each hour so to help things not get worse . I found comfort sitting next to an open window for the freshest of air (he was still smoking around me !)
He didn't really tell my family much so I had No support apart from my daughter
I can assure you I am over it and don't dwell on it, but the memories have surfaced due to this virus being so similar , I'm almost shielding through fear of catching it. We laugh but hubby has to get straight in the bath after he's been shopping lol
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Aww thank you Barnacle. xx
TC, they havnt said they could, just told us to ring an ambulance if needed. 🤷♀️ Maybe because he doesn't seem to need it throughout the day, it's always of a morning time. Thanx TC. xx
I know Annie what you mean about your hubby getting into the bath, my son pops over the shop for us, when he comes back, it's disenfectant everywhere, change of clothes, and wiping everything down. Sometimes I think we?re so over the top, but I don't care, it's all we can do to stay safe.
We will talk when we get chance, we've a lot of catching up to do, it's been four weeks since I've told him off for something, so I've got four weeks worth stored up. 🤣😂🤣
Keep going ladies! xxxxx
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I put a thread on yesterday about anti-bodies.
Hopefully they will send him home with oxygen though it can be dangerous to have around the house, there have to be specific signs on doors and windows to alert essential services ::).
You will probably sleep. A lot! Certainly the busy dreams I've had have made me knackered :-\, so much so that I did wonder if I was harbouring a bug ........
So I didn't take my Propranolol over night and that headache has lifted. That's a start then :-\
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Oh Jillydoll hubby is probably looking forward to you nagging him again as it means you?re all back to some form of normality !
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It most def lifted the spirits seeing that on TV!
And yeh JD, what Jaypo says goes!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D xx
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Some of these older (older older ) folk beating the beast is really lovely I agree x
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It will be interesting. I think it will be several years until the truth emerges as to what/why/where .......
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Shoulder not so great again unfortunately, probably all this furniture removas and painting not been helping. Also been weeks since last saw osteopath due to the covid - 19 restrictions. Disturbing me at night & wakening me early hours. :( x
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We could hear a lot of laughter this afternoon while we sat in our garden which is very unusual. I went upstairs to look out of the bedroom window and a man who lives behind us had his adult son and girlfriend over for a BBQ! He lives alone and you never hear a sound from him normally and I haven't seen the son there for about 2 years.
The youngsters beside us who have teenage visitors over every evening, once again had 4 visitors round this evening. If I tell you their little sitting area at the front of the house is about a yard wide you can imagine how close the 6 of them are.
Hubby is getting cross about it but I said if they?re all that thick, as long as they don't come near me, let them get on with it now and if they catch the virus, tough s**t.
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Haha, thanx Jaypo. Ok! What you say GOES! 🤣😂
Foxy knows doesn't she? 🤣😂
Hey Foxy, 👋🏼
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Oh, forgot to say. 😆 Brain in a tiz! 🤯
OHs home. :ola:
He's doing ok too. A little breathless, but ok.
He's got to take it easy though.
6/8 weeks recovery, so doc told him.
He's due a scan in about 4 weeks times, to assess any damage.
On his GP/ dishcharge letter, it says, Covid19 related illness. So even after four tests, which all came back negative, they still assume it was covid19.
It seems all covid19 patients, have this particular pneumonia. ( obviously, if it effects them that far)
His clothes are resting in the garage, still in their bags, covered in disenfectant, for the next 72 hours, like instructed.
He's showered, and had some dinner. So alls good at the moment. xx
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Have been told if you're over 55 and need an ambulance you are way down the list..
Unless you are Boris Johnson.
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Oh, forgot to say. 😆 Brain in a tiz! 🤯
OHs home. :ola:
He's doing ok too. A little breathless, but ok.
He's got to take it easy though.
6/8 weeks recovery, so doc told him.
He's due a scan in about 4 weeks times, to assess any damage.
On his GP/ dishcharge letter, it says, Covid19 related illness. So even after four tests, which all came back negative, they still assume it was covid19.
It seems all covid19 patients, have this particular pneumonia. ( obviously, if it effects them that far)
His clothes are resting in the garage, still in their bags, covered in disenfectant, for the next 72 hours, like instructed.
He's showered, and had some dinner. So alls good at the moment. xx
really glad that he is improving. 🙂
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Aw Jillydoll this is fantastic news. Please pass my best wishes to your husband
I have to take a step back regarding others stupidity and selfishness during this. it's because Of them my hubby (the breadwinner) cannot return to work and like I said before, financially ruining us. These ones breaking the rules will be either on benefits where their normal (ish) life isn't interrupted or they are enjoying the break (and don't get me wrong, I can see why they would) and can financially manage on the furlough/self employed scheme
I keep seeing on our local Facebook pages how everyone is falling and all the rule keepers are being mocked for moaning
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It's up to the Police to enforce which they will do if called. They seem more intent on telling us what we can put into shopping trolleys than putting effort into following their noses towards BBQs, extra noise etc.. In some towns they are tapping on the doors at B&Bs asking if they are having visitors >:(. Surely extra vehicles in the area would point to B&Bs being in business?
Easy to target those who might be breaking the Law? Moving a family of 4 off a blanket where they were sitting to get fresh air and educate their twins about lambs, when there was NO ONE else other than the copper in the area. It was their own field :bang: :bang: :bang:, the copper climbed over a gate and walked across to ask them to move: another telling children off for playing in their own front garden? :-\
jillydoll - so pleased that he is HOME :hapij: ...... but there is too much assumption about C-19 - if he had been infected after 4 tests it should have shown. Unless the NHS hasn't bought the ones that actually work? Does he have an appt. for the scan or will that be a rolling appt.? Wonder whether you will sleep or lay watching him ;-). xx
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I said all along that it would never work 100%. There are always those that don't understand, or don't want to understand. A thirty pound fine is hardly likely to have people quaking in their boots. Personally I can't see myself reporting anybody. There are big dangers to society, when this is all over. Not only will the economy be trashed but we will still have to live with our heighbours. It's all to reminiscent of the Stasi and their informers for my liking. That was, and still is very damaging.
As for some of the numpty things the police are doing, that was to be expected as well. My son showed me footage of the police threatening a man with pepper spray. All he had done was leave a bag of groceries on his mother's doorstep. He received an apology but it's just not good enough.
These are scary times and it's not just the virus.
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Sadly many people who join the Forces want to be able to control others. My first thought was 'reporting neighbours in the 1930s ended up with the death camps :'( ' ........... I believe that those who are over 'enthusiastic' in their apparent 2020 policing advice should be weeded out .......
It shows how quickly neighbour blaggs about neighbour and how soon it could become a Police State. Continues to show how far removed from Real Life those in Westminster happen to be? they forget who put them there!
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Oh Jillydoll you must be so relieved he's home, it's nice to have some good news :)
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Aw Jillydoll, i'm so,so pleased to hear that xx
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You can't have it both ways. If we want to limit the spread of the virus the lock down has to be enforced. Yes, there are examples of police going OTT but look how confused we've been about what is and what isn't allowed, no surprise some policemen have been too. If you don't want the lock down to be enforced you have to accept there will be thousands more deaths.
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Thank you ladies. Xx
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So pleased for you both jillydoll fabulous news.
Best wishes to you both
Lanzalover x
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You can't have it both ways. If we want to limit the spread of the virus the lock down has to be enforced. Yes, there are examples of police going OTT but look how confused we've been about what is and what isn't allowed, no surprise some policemen have been too. If you don't want the lock down to be enforced you have to accept there will be thousands more deaths.
I agree! My husband was a policeman. I shall quote him. ? Police officers are recruited from the public, so you are going to get good police officers and bad ones and many in between,?
Don't damn the whole police force for the inappropriate behaviour of the few. They are all under tremendous pressures like all other services. They often see people behaving at their worst. People, who might be lovely human beings at other times. Many police officers join the force, because they genuinely want to help others, not because they want to control others. I can say this because I met many, many of my husband's colleagues. Most were lovely human beings. But one or two should not have been let loose.......
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Just caught up with Jillydolls news. What relief! As with any pneumonia, his lungs will take a long time to heal. Tell him to be patient, if he gets frustrated, as I did after ?normal ? pneumonia. It just takes time .......months........before you get to feeling more like you. But you get there.
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So pleased he's home Jilly, and as the weather is so good he can rest up in the garden and get his Vitamin D levels up. (No getting him to cut the grass!! Lol)
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Brilliant that he's home jd, hope all goes well with his recovery 😘
JP x
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The Police should be led from above and advice given from the top down to the street. It simply hasn't happened. Look at the chap in Northamptonshire ...... telling locals that his officers were going to check trollies to make sure people were buying essentials ......... moving people from their own field :-\ sorry Ju Ju I know that you are involved but in these days of being filmed everywhere, they should be above reproach.
How was your night jillydoll?
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I have found somewhere online to buy handgell. Do a search for 'the hand wash shop' and you should find it. Works out about ?6 for 200ml.
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:clapping: :love: That's fantastic news jillydoll, hope you both had a restful nights sleep (nothing beats being back in your own bed when you are poorly). Enjoy what is left of the weekend, relaxing. xx
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Hello ladies
Jillydoll - I'm so pleased to learn that your husband is now home and recovering. It takes time to recover from pneumonia so lots of rest is needed.
Take care.
K.
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Brilliant news Jillydoll - such a relief for you all :ola:
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How much will you be selling it for Shadyglade ;). I bought 3 large bottles a couple of weeks B4 the virus was heard of which is doing me well. Plus hot water and soap.
I think once Easter is over we can all relax. I am edgy as it is supposed to 'peak' right now, some countries are considering relieving their lock down policies but I feel World wide that this is too soon. I won't be in a hurry to mix with many people when we are allowed out. In case. Apart from a garden centre visit if they remain trading, I will be making a list ;)
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Why would a Nurse who suffers Asthma be allowed to continue in work. She has died in the last few days ........ :-\ should she not have been shielding? I don't get it >:(
Then the government has sent ?Ms abroad to 3rd World countries to help ease their virus problems. Shouldn't charity begin at home, my sister complained of lack of PPE in the NHS and care homes for years ............ >:( which bit of 'the NHS lacks' don't the governments of the day get?
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It's no good dealing with the virus here if we get re-infected from abroad. It needs to be tackled effectively everywhere.
Many 3rd world countries have next to nothing in the way of ventilators etc., So far here we are coping.
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So we need to spend some of that money on closing our borders? It can be done, the Police are patrolling between Cornwall and England, England and Wales and all around Cumbria. So put some of that money back into our border controls!!
Those in the 3rd World aren't going to travel here anyway :-\
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Why are flights still coming in with people onboard.
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They are not really, at the moment. However, that can't last forever, so unless we assist less wealthy countries to fight the virus it will never end. That's the virus and possibly the lock-down.
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Because some were stuck when lockdown happened whilst they were on holiday. But I think they should go immediately to isolation? I saw a plane tail cloud this morning, no idea where it was going - it came out of Birmigham/East Midlands direction. DH wondered if it was an MP taking essentials to his family in Val'dIshere ;-)
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Cargo planes are still coming and going.
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If we'd closed our borders when we should have done we wouldn't be in this situation. We were (and probably still are) letting anyone in from any infected country without so much as a temperature check. An Australian politician was on TV the other day, she put their success down to closing the borders while the outbreak was still small enough to contain.
Of course UK citizens should be allowed back in but they should have been isolated.
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My half cousin returned from Oz 6 weeks ago - no tests either end nor on the plane :-\ so he went straight back to work.
Boris has left Hospital?
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do you mean that you had a personal visitation from him stellajane ;D can you imagine him in pyjamas or on a bedpan :-X
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:lol: he's going to Cheques to rest - that's an essential journey then? ::)
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I think that there needs to be a UK Public Enquiry once the effects of this Pandemic lessen.
How can NHS Staff and Carers be dying ........ why haven't they been given PPE in time? Why, why, why ?
Now Boris is spouting on TV ......... he had treatment 4 3 nights in ICU and 'it could have gone either way' : but he didn't require ventilation . He should have rested immediately. As soon as the virus started to spread World Wide it should have been considered that the main MPs might have been affected!
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So pleased to hear your OH is back home Jillydoll
Our neighbours have had either friends or family over today they were blatantly breaking the regulations by all mixing & talking on their drive, then the two men & 1 boy + 1 girl take dogs out (they have all girls!) it annoys the hell out of me that we are abiding by what we've been asked to do, yet some....
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Also we get used to the silence ::) so the neighbours get together again it will be SO ANNOYING >:(. As long as they weren't breathing your way it is what it is. I don't agree with informing, after all when there are all night parties the Police simply aren't bothered. Noise can affect people adversely too.
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Gosh there are quite a few pages of this thread since I last looked but I gather your husband is back home jillydoll? Not sure if I knew that (sorry!). If so that's great news, and if I haven''t already said, I hope is is now on the mend and will rest rest and more rest as should you! You must be so relieved :)
Hurdity x
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I wonder what treatment he was given?
Did you see that Trump said at a press conference he was sending medication over for boris? I think he should've been forced to declare what it was.
Regarding ppe. I was reading an article on an American site saying that when they have done exercises in the past for pandemic preparedness, supply chain issues for PPE came to light.. The USA and UK were not prepared for something that should not have been come as a surprise.
Trump is now invoking a law which means the govt can order a manufacturer to send supplies where it tells them to. The idea being it goes where its needed most.. seems to have divided opinion over there.
Xxx
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I think the consensus was that it wouldn't happen :-\
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If we'd closed our borders when we should have done we wouldn't be in this situation. We were (and probably still are) letting anyone in from any infected country without so much as a temperature check. An Australian politician was on TV the other day, she put their success down to closing the borders while the outbreak was still small enough to contain.
Of course UK citizens should be allowed back in but they should have been isolated.
nearly 70 turned up crammed into an inflatable dinghy at Hastings today. juts seen it on the news. Obviously no social distancing and where the hell are we going to put them?
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Calais
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Just been talking to my American DIL. She and my son are in the medical profession. She says they are under prepared generally in the USA. Fortunately their state is mainly rural, with a small population. The main city has a lot of cases, but not elsewhere. The state has put lock down measures in place in good time. My son, a paramedic, has the correct ppe.
I remember reading something about Trump disbanding the government department looking into preparedness for a pandemic. Well what do you expect from a man who in a recent speech that this virus is so terrible that ABs don't work! Since when did ABs ever cure viruses! Doh! :bang:
I'm currently listening to a good podcast by a couple of American women, both medics , who are currently covering all aspects of Covid19. it's called This podcast will kill you. They have covered many different diseases in the past. Very interesting.
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So pleased to read your OH is home JD. You must be so relieved. I hope that you can both take some time to recover and feel better.
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TC I heard Trump saying as some doctors in the US have had great success with Hydroxychloroquine he was going to get a couple of the drug companies to get in touch with Boris. Who knows if anything will ever come to light about that? If I was a journalist that's the kind of question I'd be asking!
It seems countries conduct these pandemic exercises but then don't act on any of the recommendations. Well that's sure turned round and bitten them in the bum.
::)
Stella
That's drug is being talked about on Twitter a lot.
The fact our PM has now been hospitalised with the virus i believe it's in the public interest to know the details of his treatment especially as he survived a severe second stage scenario.
I agree journalists seem to be missing vital questions. Its,obvious to me some are now going for partisan point scoring over fact finding.
Xx
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I agree journalists seem to be missing vital questions. Its,obvious to me some are now going for partisan point scoring over fact finding.
Same as ever then. Unfortunately the truth is never very important to many media organisations.
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Glad that your son is OK Ju Ju !
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The journalists are probably told what questions they are allowed to ask >:(
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Update on my sis MIL. She is back on covid ward. 1st swab positive and lung scan positive. They are discounting a second negative test as a false negative.
She is being treated with hydroxychloroquine
Realy upsetting as she has not been "with it" at all since falling very sick with 2nd stage.when my sis called ambulance she wasnt communicating at all (she is normally fine) In fact nurse told sis yesterdsy that she hadnt spoken since shes been there . but they phoned sis today to say they felt she was able minded enough to sign and so have got her to sign a DNR. .
Xx
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:o. is that really necessary :-\ ?
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Do you mean me mentioning it or them doing it. ?
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sorry - is it necessary for your aunt to have signed a DNR? Are there underlying factors for example .......... such a sad situation :'(
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Good. I wouldnt want to upset anyone. But I think you are right.
When my wife had terminal.cancer. she was in and out hospital the last few months and they were constantly shoving DNR form under her nose. They kept sending different ppl to do it. One week it was every single day. She felt they were badgering her and I had to complain >:(
Xxx
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This should be discussed early on? and reviewed as a patient becomes tired with treatment etc.??
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That's far enough and helpful for relatives.
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Hi Tc
So sorry to hear about your aunt, I hope the treatment works.
They got my dad to sign one when he had lung cancer too, even though I know he didn't want to, he felt he had to.. :'(
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My mum signed one. Broke my dad's heart but it was what she wanted.
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I understand that resusitation is brutal.
I also get that sometimes once resuscitated the person will then be on a ventilator. It's not like the films. I get that. And with a terminal person who has weeks to live it would then be spent on life support. So I can see all the reasoning.
With my wife it wasnt the fact they asked her it was the fact they wouldnt leave it alone and they were so forceful. And the way they did it wasnt tactful either it was quite uncaring. They distressed her.
Doc told sis that they are not having good success with resuscitation with covid. So scary.
Xx
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Probably with those with underlying conditions.
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I should add sis MIL has got underlying conditions. But they have said they come secondary now to trying to fight virus as it is the bigger threat to her life.
Sorry to bring up DNR. It's a painful subject for everyone but I think it's probably coming up a lot with very sick covid patients.
Xxx
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Just to illustrate the other side to the story. My MIL was brought round when in ICU - but she was as mad as hell with DIL for allowing them to do it because she knew she was terminal anyway.
I know a woman who tried to kill herself having pinned a note to her jumper saying ?Do not resuscitate?. She was found and they did resuscitate her!!
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Update on my sis MIL. She is back on covid ward. 1st swab positive and lung scan positive. They are discounting a second negative test as a false negative.
She is being treated with hydroxychloroquine
Realy upsetting as she has not been "with it" at all since falling very sick with 2nd stage.when my sis called ambulance she wasnt communicating at all (she is normally fine) In fact nurse told sis yesterdsy that she hadnt spoken since shes been there . but they phoned sis today to say they felt she was able minded enough to sign and so have got her to sign a DNR. .
Xx
Sorry to hear about your sister's MIL Tc
Interesting that she is being given hydroxycholorquine. She must be in one of the hospitals that have signed up for the trials? I do hope she will be on the road to recovery soon.
However a trial in Brazil using chloroquine has been halted early due to patient deaths. There can be problems with patients who have cardiovascular problems I gather.
https://www.sciencealert.com/clinical-trial-for-high-dose-of-chloroquine-stopped-early-due-to-safety-concerns
I dont want to be alarming but it's not necessarily a magic bullet. However there are two hospitals in UK that have been trialling it. One on London (Barts) and one in the SW (Exeter). This article quotes a woman from Devon who was on the trial had the drug and recovered but doesn't know if it was due to the drug or if she would have got better anyway. The article is here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-nhs-donald-trump-malaria-drug-hydroxychloroquine-trials-barts-royal-devon-a9461671.html
I'm going to update the scientific info about this on the other thread but just thought I would mention here as it is talked about a lot.
Hurdity x
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Oxford university are doing some clinical trials at the hospital in Swindon. They are testing 4 drugs on volunteers who have tested positive. One of them is hydroxychloroquine. I think the others are interferon, an hiv drug, and a type of steroid.
Jeepers xx
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Hurdity. I have read up on this drug very recently and since my fam member was given it. And as far as I can see It is licensed for certain conditions with success , but hasnt got to "off license" stage for covid . There hasnt been time to go through that process so a "special circumstance " has been given to use it skipping the steps that would usually be taken.
As a family we didnt even know the drug was being used in UK for covid. , and maybe as a country we were not aware as there has been no mention of it In our press conferences that I can remember.
We didnt realise it was being used in our hospitals in UK until we were told it was being given to our family member by a doc on phone today. We were told it is all that's on offer to TRY to lessen the effects of covid.. But... they gave it to her before they told us they had (she is not able to communicate vocally since she entered stage 2 of covid). But before they gave it to her they managed to get her to sign a DNR..
I dont believe I'm wrong in saying this drug can affect the heart from what I've researched.
So ....
It concerns me that ppl such as my 78 year old fam member maybe being used as Guinea pigs.
Xxx
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Tc - if your family member is poorly is it a big problem that they are trying to ease symptoms with a drug which may work? Many drugs have been found to help conditions that they weren't designed for, usually by a patient finding out themselves ::), telling his GP and word spreading.
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Hiya. Yes of course at the moment she is very sick and so it's the only option . Apparently it can lessen the effects of covid.
Stay safe xxxxx
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I have spoken to several people in the care industry and they have had no information or support from the UK government which is backed up by daily news
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They gave it to her before telling her family, Tc?
X
Yes birdy.
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My Mum's care home has been brilliant. They have full PPE, each staff member has their temperature taken when they start their shift. Every resident has their temperature taken twice a day. The residents are now all confined to their rooms but are having lovely meals as usual and the careworkers have been reading Mum's poems to her and just having a chat.
They have arranged for us to Skype or Facetime and they stay with Mum and encourage her to talk rather than just listen and watch. She is getting the hang of it! They are also giving the ladies shampoo and sets as the hairdresser can't come in.
Mum has been very much more confused and agitated since lockdown and her Alzheimers means that sometimes she understands why I can't visit and others she can't. She has also had two falls in the last week. The Manager rang and we had a long chat about all this yesterday and said that they are doing all they possibly can to ensure she has no more falls but I understand this is very difficult. They have contacted the Falls Team but this could take a while. Mum spends so much of her time backwards and Forwards to her toilet that falls are inevitable. She has an necklace alarm but doesn't use it. There are 2 pull alarms in her room and one in her loo but she never uses them either. If she did, the careworkers would come and help her but she just takes herself mostly.
The GP has prescribed a low dose of something for when Mum has a really bad day.
We also discussed me becoming an ?essential visitor? if Mum deteriorates further. That would mean I could go in after completing forms and having my temperature taken and wearing Mask etc. That has put my mind at rest a bit although, fingers crossed, things stay as they are now for a while.
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It annoys me that so many are having C-19 on the Death Certs when it hasn't been the cause of Death. It's lazy. It's upsetting. And probably illegal? Maybe we should all contact the Funeral Directors that we intend to use and ask the question? It will also screw the statistics towards what the government probably wants them to read rather than the truth.
Your Care Home is on the ball PF!
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What makes anyone think that Covid-19 is generally being put on the death certificate when it is not thought to be the case? Like I said on the other thread and as reported in the ONS data, more than one cause of death can be put down on certificates eg pneumonia and CV-19. I've said this before but there was guidance issued about writing death certificates under CV-19 but how you can describe any doctor as "lazy" or undergoing "illegal" activity at a time like this beggars belief when they are working harder and for longer hours than ever. Sure there are bound to be the odd error but I would bet that most doctors want to do their best by their patients and relatives.
If you want to read the very detailed updated guidance to doctors on death certification during this emergency period, it's here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf
I would find it dififcult to believe that someone who died of cancer would be certified as dying of Covid-19. Many patients have underlying illnesses that might eventually kill them, but if they caught Covid-19 then this would be a major contributory cause of the death as it happened. I mean I'm only surmising but why would anyone want to make it up? Unfortunatle and saldy people with cancer will also succumb to the CV-19 disease. Like I said on the other thread it's more likely to be the other way round - at least earlier on in the lockdown, that people were dying of Covid but it not being recorded properly due to lack of testing.
WHat statistics does the government want people to read? In my view it is more likely they would want to play down the true numbers of deaths (not just the numbers from hospital admissions) as well as the confirmed cases, because the reality is even more frightening or I should say, shocking. Too late now.
Hurdity x
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Stats can prove anything that the government/orgnisation wants them to prove. The daily death numbers are 'from C-19' according to the afternoon reports. Initially it was 'with underlying conditions' but that phrase has disappeared this week.
It is happening. Lazy reporting. People going into hospital and dying of chronic illness but C-19 written on the Death Cert., is that because initially the government muted that many would be cremated at once. It may be that the Doctor at the time of death is unaware of why the patient has been admitted, presumably notes are not being read due to lack of time and patients may not be admitted to the hospital where they have been receiving treatment. Rushed between patients with C-19 end of life symptoms but unaware of previous health issues. Still shouldn't happen.
Some of the deaths in care homes - now being accepted by the government as having been missed off daily numbers - are being put down as C-19 without any testing taking place. I expect that as time goes by, those caring for residents will recognise symptoms but many are carers with little or no nursing experience. Not what carers expect to have to face ........... District Nurses and GPs attend many for end of life care but that probably isn't happening in case of virus spread.
Sadly the Care Sector has been badly neglected. Ageism. Some of these people were valued members of their communities ........
Any one know if Boris lives?
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Especially as few have nursing experience so very little knowledge of barrier care. Thinking of the huge turnover of Staff were Mum stays: not only in the comings and goings of staff rota and 2 on at night to care for 25 residents :o how can that be safe working practice? Hopefully when this is all over the Care Industry will have a huge shakeup. As well as those that try the care system to see if they want it as a job but leave after a few days/weeks/months :-\.
Currently they have 7 on working 24/7. Sleeping over. I would like to think that uniforms are being laundered in house :-\
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Stella. I think you are referring to hydroxychloroquine . My fam member in hospital with covid being treated with it.
Trump described it as a "game changer" and some studies have found it significant enough to be fast tracked and used "experimentally " for covid but ive seen this morning A small study in France has found "statistically no difference " in those who took it in hospital in outcome. Brazil and sweded have reported heart arythmia with it.
My fam member has had to be taken off her diabetes medication because it cant be taken with the covid drugs. We have been told by the hospital that those with type 2 diabetes are presenting a "challenge" once infected.
Xxx
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It is all so new :-\ .........
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It is all so new :-\ .........
Yes - it seems a bit trial and error, but I guess they feel it's worth trying.
Hydroxychloroquine has been used for other conditions for some time - this is one medication I may have to take as a treatment for Psoriatic Arthritis.
In fact people that having been successfully using it for their illnesses are now finding they can't get it ::)
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I wouldn't take everything that said as fact at the moment, nobody knows and the press are looking for worst case at every opportunity in my opinion. It's best not to watch the news reports if you are having an iffy day :)
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Hi.
Well, OH came home last Saturday, masked up, doc said just to make sure and to keep a distance from us at home, for 7 days. Not sure the paper masks do anything, but hey ho, he's been wearing it anyway. Someone told me, who works at a hospital, the paper masks only last for 15 minutes. After that they?re no good. 🤷♀️ Anyway, not long to go now, then the 7 days are up!
We rang the GP on Monday, to see if he needed anymore AB, as the hospital only discharged him with two days worth, 😳 GP said yes, I?ll give you another 7 days worth just to make sure all the infection has gone, he's still getting night sweats, and she doesn't know if it's still the covid hanging around, or the pneumonia. I'm hoping they finish soon for him, cuz he hates em with a passion!
He's doing ok other than that. He's very weak, lost a hell of a lot of weight, and has to stop to get his breath back after just walking up and down the living room. His oxygen levels drop to around 88/89% but soon rise after he's sat down, to around 91/92% at best at the moment.
We bought him an oxygen gadget, you just slip it on your finger, and it reads the oxygen in your blood. I used it, and my oxygen level was 99%, so he still has a bit to go.
After having 15 l/min, oxygen, pumped into him, at the hospital, which is the highest before intensive care, he's come on heaps.
So fingers crossed for a continued recovery. 🤞
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JillyD - I thought that he had 4 negative tests, does the GP have a different discharge letter :-\. Improvement has to be good news! How are you feeling really? Knackered? :tulips2: He had "pneumonia" which is different !!! otherwise they wouldn't recommend going back for lung suction. :-\
It has been found that incomers to China have re-activated a level of new cases needing hospital treatment. Stands to reason that we need to keep away from others for while yet, stated earlier at least 3-4 weeks. However, many businesses will fail :'( even with financial help.
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Great news jd. Xx
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It's better to remain in lockdown to lessen peaks and troughs of this virus. We are becoming used to it and whilst the fine weather remains, we remain optimistic. Keeping in touch. Taking time to sniff the roses. Whether there will be business to come back to remains to be seen.
It's for another 3 weeks initially. It has to be reviewed regularly by which time, more info. will be available a) whether the virus has plaateud [sp] b) if a vaccine is any closer to being approved.
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Hi jillydoll I'm sure he could contribute to the night sweats thread on here, he'll have plenty to sympathise with him ;D
Must be lovely to have him home :banana:
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Great news Jillydoll xx
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Wonderful news Jillydoll x
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The only thing he has is high blood pressure, which he's been on meds for, for years.
However, I read an article the other day that said people with high blood pressure were at a higher risk. How true this is, who knows!
Yes CLKD, he had four negative covid tests. But, they still say he had it, due to the behaviour of his pneumonia. Apparently, the pneumonia he had, was the same as the patients who did test positive, who had pneumonia.
Thanks for all the well wishes ladies. Xxxx
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Dr chris Steele said to start taking vit D3
Tablets now
I think when they lift lockdown and if they insist on social distancing it might Mean no pubs or restaurants ? In which case they?ll have No business
Longer lockdown is devastating for our personal financial situation but money or health = no comparison . We can live elsewhere if we have our health still x
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My OH took vitamin D, perscription strength. ...🤷♀️
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My OH took vitamin D, perscription strength. ...🤷♀️
Oh I don't think it means it's going to stop anyone getting it unfortunately JD but he said it could help with the immune system. God only knows why it affects some more than others 😢 x
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Isn't that one theory as to why it's affected the BAME communities more. The darker your skin the less Vitamin D you get from sunlight in northern climes.
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My doc phoned me two weeks ago to say a pre lockdown blood test showed v low vit d. I was surprised something like that would be a priority but she wanted to stress it's important I pick up and take the high dose tabs immediately.
Xxx
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Low Vit-D leads to a weakened immune system plus other health problems. Get those tablets started. :)
Taz x
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Taz I finished course yesterday. 2 weeks of 20,000 daily. Huge dose. Now I'm on one of those a week for 4 weeks and thereafter it says on label to take highest OTC dose for maintenance. Xx
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Glad you are on the way to getting it sorted
Taz x
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After a report yesterday stating that masks don't protect, there is talk at higher levels this morning that all Londoners have to wear them >:(
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I have come to the conclusion that nobody knows what's the right/wrong thing to do. I feel like a mushroom!
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Storm Trooper suit or Burka for me ............ that way I'll be 'right' what ever I'm told ? ;)
For a hot Summer a lacy parasol .......... by the time this is finished my hair will keep others away :D
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There is a theory now that it's not as virilant as first thought. However I now take all information with a pinch of salt because even the experts can't agree.
Just hang on until it's over, whenever that will be!?
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How does that work then? It's gone round the World in about 6 weeks and is now affecting African countries ......... :-\ that's if China was honest about when it began there and of course, so much of China is vast with nomadic tribes so the true number may never be known.
they keep saying that we have the highest death rate thus far: I wasn't aware that this C-19 was a competition?
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I thought that if one person in a household got it everyone would, but like stellajane says it's not happening that way. People lock themselves away in a room to isolate when they feel unwell but they must have been contagious before the symptims showed ?
I like Dr Hillary on tv in the mornings he is so reassuring and I trust what he says, he was asked about masks today and said, the type people wear out and about are not suitable, the virus particles are so microscopic they don't stop it getting through. He also said they come in different grades, so unless everyone is issued with top grade masks it's useless wearing them.
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I thought that if one person in a household got it everyone would, but like stellajane says it's not happening that way. People lock themselves away in a room to isolate when they feel unwell but they must have been contagious before the symptims showed ?
I like Dr Hillary on tv in the mornings he is so reassuring and I trust what he says, he was asked about masks today and said, the type people wear out and about are not suitable, the virus particles are so microscopic they don't stop it getting through. He also said they come in different grades, so unless everyone is issued with top grade masks it's useless wearing them.
I can't say I 100% trust any of the ?experts?. A few weeks ago they were telling us that ibuprofen was no use if you had Coronavirus so everybody rushed out and emptied the shelves of paracetamol.
Two days ago a report came out saying there was NO evidence that ibuprofen was ineffective. Dr Sarah Jarvis was on TV yet again this morning confirming this but she was one of the ?experts? who said Ibuprofen was no good just a few weeks ago! 😂😂. She will be a billionaire at this rate, she is never off the radio and TV these days.
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Um, not sure about Dr. Hilary. He got a lot of flack for say people washing their cars on their drive was not appropriate.
Not a fan of TV doctors as a whole anyway.
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How does that work then? It's gone round the World in about 6 weeks and is now affecting African countries ......... :-\ that's if China was honest about when it began there and of course, so much of China is vast with nomadic tribes so the true number may never be known.
they keep saying that we have the highest death rate thus far: I wasn't aware that this C-19 was a competition?
I agree that the charts and figures make it look like some sort of competition. But if the figures are to be believed Germany has a very low proportion of death rates to positive tests. They tested more but even so death rates are still actually lower.
They tested and they traced. before lockdown they traced one case to a school. They closed it and quarantined everyone with contact. We havent traced. We lost sight of the virus.
X
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Think you might be right there Tc x
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We haven't traced or even bothered to test people arriving in ports or airports :-\
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When we only test people who are so ill they're in hospital the death rate is guaranteed to be high. Had we tested everyone in the community with symptoms the rate would have been much lower. The comparison is meaningless.
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My teen son became ill with what we think is coronavirus 17 days ago, he has only really been well since yesterday, temp went a few days back. He has stayed in his room and had main bathroom to himself, i am still wondering if the rest of us shall get it although we are now allowed out according to guidelines.
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PF - I mentioned the fact that Nurofen is absolutely fine to use with C-19 about 2 weeks ago. I never thought it would be a problem. Different drugs for different uses and I can't take Paracetamol with any success.
Germany does not have an NHS. They have specific health specialities across the country so people were able to access what was required and when .... hence the low infection rate.
My friend came back from Thailand 6 weeks ago: no testing B4 getting on the plane and he walked straight through Heathrow with no testing there, went back to work. :-\
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Shadyglade...what, we should be taking a pinch of salt too now?!? ;) ;D ;D
Oh yes. Best with vinegar on chips 🍟 though. ;)
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I fancy chips .......... well salted with vinegar ....... ::)
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When we only test people who are so ill they're in hospital the death rate is guaranteed to be high. Had we tested everyone in the community with symptoms the rate would have been much lower. The comparison is meaningless.
But if you take the testing out of the equation their death rate is still very low in comparrison.
X
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We don't have the testing kits yet. Some aren't reliable enough. Which is why we have to continue with lock down.
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They are not always reliable. My fam member tested twice once positive once negative. Docs are ignoring the neg as they said it's a false negative they can tell by her lung scan.
Something I dont get. I've just seen on news sadly an elderly couple died on Monday but both had been isolating. Not the first to have said the same thing. . If they isolated totally . How did they become symptomatic so long after lockdown. ?
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They died in the same Hospital. Can't remember the story but it is on the BBC News 'regions' site.
Now there are scammers making NHS-like name tapes so that people can go shopping during the times the Supermarkets have given over to personnel >:( - Trading Standards have stopped thousands of hand sanitiser bottles which have an illegal ingredient in.
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They are not always reliable. My fam member tested twice once positive once negative. Docs are ignoring the neg as they said it's a false negative they can tell by her lung scan.
Something I dont get. I've just seen on news sadly an elderly couple died on Monday but both had been isolating. Not the first to have said the same thing. . If they isolated totally . How did they become symptomatic so long after lockdown. ?
It can take up 14 days for symptoms to start and then it can 3 weeks plus before it is fatal. Some people are in ICU for weeks. They may well have been infected before the lock down.
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I've seen lots of people on tv saying I'm isolating, but they are not they are distancing. Isolating means no contact with anyone, having food brought to you and not sharing anything even a bathroom, or if you do you must clean thoroughly. If you are distancing you can receive shopping or mail but from 6 foot away, and live in the same rooms as others. This is what I think, am I wrong ?
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Yes exactly. You are only isolating if you or anyone in your household has symptoms of the virus and noone must go out for 14 days or longer if you get it late on in the 14 days as you have to then isolate for 7 days from start of symptoms or more if you still have temp and symptoms. Some people in vulnerable groups are not going out shopping etc ( like my husband in his 70's) but he's not isolating as he still sees neighbours ( at a distance) and goes for walks from the village etc
Hurdity x
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It can take up 14 days for symptoms to start and then it can 3 weeks plus before it is fatal. Some people are in ICU for weeks. They may well have been infected before the lock down.
Thsi is exactly the point and why the numbers of deaths rose almost exponentially during the first 3 weeks. Fortunately it looks like the number of people in hospital with CV-19 is gradually starting to decrease so the daily numbers (which are hospital deaths) should start to plateau and gradually fall.
What will be a shock will be next Tues and especially the following week (28th April) ONS data as these will reflect the very high numbers of care home deaths that are being reported this week but are compiled weekly with all the other deaths
.When we only test people who are so ill they're in hospital the death rate is guaranteed to be high. Had we tested everyone in the community with symptoms the rate would have been much lower. The comparison is meaningless.
But if you take the testing out of the equation their death rate is still very low in comparrison.
X
Exactly. The death RATE is the number of deaths from the disease as a proportion of the total number with the disease. We have no idea what this is as testing was abandoned once we entered phase 2 ie mitigate rather than contain. This was not forseen and should have been.
Once (if) there is an accurate antibody test, then population wide testing will determine what our infection rate was and thence our death rate. It will probably be similar everywhere.
Where countries will differ is in the total numbers of deaths per head of population but also this is not a really a proper measure either. I think the most useful comparison is looking at the trajectories of numbers of deaths over time since the first 50 deaths were announced and the number of tests carried out at the time as well as when lockdown and other measures were introduced. Also other strategies. Countries like S Korea I gather did extensive testing and rigorous and strict contact tracing and isolation (I think) like we did in our failed containment phase.
We are going to have to go back to that if and when loackdowmn measures are eased gradually otherwise we will get a second peak or more so the disease comes and goes in undulating waves as measures are lifted and then tightened. I think this was mooted some time ago actually right when Boris first introduced the very soft social distancing in the first week ie the waves of mini epidemics as restrictions were eased once we had come down from the first main flattened peak.
Hurdity x
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I believe shielding means not going out at all. I thought those who are working outside the home are not isolating and Isolating is only going out for essential shopping, meds and excersise once a day. Isnt it? Unless you or someone in the household shows symptoms. In which case I think maybe the symptom situation should be called "quarantine " to distinguish it from isolation.?
When I referred to Germany I didnt mean the death rate. I worded that wrong. I meant the number of deaths. But as you say hurdity thst will have to be worked out per capita to vmgst a true picture.
I still think we allowed ourselves to lose sight of the virus by not tracing.
X
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Sheilding - those with underlying conditions - for 3 months. Inside. No contact with anyone. Bathroom/bedroom - separate from anyone else. Impossible in most households >:(
I can't understand why people who have been to Hospital from a care home, are returned to the care home :-\. Surely that's where the Nightingale Hospitals come in ......... :-\ to keep the rest of the residents safe?
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I believe shielding means not going out at all. I thought those who are working outside the home are not isolating and Isolating is only going out for essential shopping, meds and excersise once a day. Isnt it? Unless you or someone in the household shows symptoms. In which case I think maybe the symptom situation should be called "quarantine " to distinguish it from isolation.?
When I referred to Germany I didnt mean the death rate. I worded that wrong. I meant the number of deaths. But as you say hurdity thst will have to be worked out per capita to vmgst a true picture.
I still think we allowed ourselves to lose sight of the virus by not tracing.
X
Hi Tc - self-isolation is as I said. You can't go out at all and if you have symptomns must separate from other household members. The rest of the household can mingle with each other but has to stay home completely. Most of us who are not ill are going out shopping or going to work, exercise. We are not isolating, we're practsing social distancing according to the new govt restrictions etc. Shielding is different. These people can't go out for 12 weeks for their own protection and are people with certain health conditions are extremely vulnerable ie the top tier of especvially vulnerable. However they can still mingle with members of their own household as long as they don't have symptoms of CV19. Complicated innit?! we've had to learn a completely new way of behaving and a new language to boot!
Hurdity x
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Clearly there's a lot of confusion. Too many different terms being used.
In my area there are plenty of over 70s still out and about and doing shopping - why otherwise would supermarkets open early for them two or three times a week?
I understood the only people who needed to stay in the house were those of any age who received 'the letter' - eg my nephew with CF.
The whole business of isolating within the home if you have symptoms is problematic in an average sized house and also raises lots of questions because we've all now heard of households where it just doesn't seem to spread around in the way you'd expect - this is where testing is needed to find out who may be a symptomless carrier.
I would have problems self isolating in my own house unless I were ill enough to stay in bed all day and wanted nothing to eat. I have a lodger here. I couldn't expect him to get me food/prepare food and there is only 1 bathroom. It happens that he never uses the living room anyway. He either stays in his room or uses the kitchen. If I had symptoms, my neighbour would shop for me but I would still have to use the kitchen.
In the more relaxed rules in Sweden, other residents in the house don't have to stay isolated at home if one resident is ill. they can go out as long as they don't develop symptoms. I read this in an article but I am going to ask my Swedish friend about it. She is over 70 but healthy and she still goes out for walks on her own and to buy food but observes social distancing.
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Thanks hurdity. I had got that wrong all along. As you say, confusing. It is actually quite Important we all understand the terminology realy as when reporting symptoms ppl might say they have been isolating when they havent.
As far as symptomatic households go there is quite a lot of info on govt site about it. It's under "guidance for households with possible covid". If anyone wants to look at it.
Strangely, my sis has been told by 111 that she must stay in for 14 days not from the date her MIL first got symptoms but from the day she went into hospital which was 10 days later..
Katejo. In Sweden the govt has trusted ppl to be responsible. bars and restaurants still open in stockholm that approach didnt work well here hence our eventual lockdown. . I read yesterday that they are now "grappling with a higher death toll than their scandinavian neighbours". Will be interesting to how your friend feels about it
Xxx
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morning stellajane: Who is John Campbell :-\
Until tests become reliable there isn't much point. The hold up in Labs. looks like being long .........
If your sister isn't showing symptoms then maybe 14 days from Hospital admission is enough. Is she well?
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Before Easter My sis MIL (79) was transferred to a community hospital to a covid ward after She tested positive and lung scan showed covid in lung .
The ward she is on was formerly an elders ward. Because it's a community hospital There is no ICU or ventilators there and no doctors at weekends. Over Easter no docs for 4 days..
Doc told sis friday her condition has worsened as it has spread into other lung now. Said he will call sis on Monday when he is back. I assume someone is on call but given what we know about how rapidly 2nd stage can possibly decline it's not very comforting
Xx
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shambolic is the word ..........
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Keep a good distance from others, kick back if trolleys get too close [I'm determined to get onto the 6o'clock news for something ;D]
Wash with hot soapy water - often
Wipe down surfaces more often than usual
Boil wash towels, flannels, kitchen cloths
Get into the sunshine ;)
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Thanks hurdity. I had got that wrong all along. As you say, confusing. It is actually quite Important we all understand the terminology realy as when reporting symptoms ppl might say they have been isolating when they havent.
As far as symptomatic households go there is quite a lot of info on govt site about it. It's under "guidance for households with possible covid". If anyone wants to look at it.
Strangely, my sis has been told by 111 that she must stay in for 14 days not from the date her MIL first got symptoms but from the day she went into hospital which was 10 days later..
Katejo. In Sweden the govt has trusted ppl to be responsible. bars and restaurants still open in stockholm that approach didnt work well here hence our eventual lockdown. . I read yesterday that they are now "grappling with a higher death toll than their scandinavian neighbours". Will be interesting to how your friend feels about it
Xxx
Re. Your sis. Definitely supposed to be 14 days from when first symptoms showed so this surprises me.
Yes I have read quite a bit about what is happening in Sweden. Awaiting the next update from my friend. Did try to give her a quick ring today but no answer.
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It will be very interesting to see if the Swedish system is effective. I think hopes for a vaccination solution are unfortunately wishful thinking, and we will have to get used to living with the virus. We can't stay under lock down forever and there is likely to be several re-emergence events.
Sorry if that's depressing.
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We are in lockdown 4 a reason. Because it's new everyone is working off the cuff. I wonder about the arguments behind closed doors B4 each daily update?
One thing that should come out of this is that the government of the day listens to key work places when they ask for speicifics?!?
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Easy to forget probably ::)
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:o on a train :o
there are a lot of near misses with train crossings sadly ......
Vit D - Fultium D3 3,200unit capsules 1 daily for 12 weeks. forgot mine yesterday ::)
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Of course you got off the bus. Now however? ;)
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:lol: what, B4 taking a 'photo .......... "I'm a Medical Secretary so U can put that away, I see those every day in my work". ;)
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Jaypo the same thing happened to me on a train
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Because we didn't know how to deal with it. I knew the difference between girls and boys but had no idea what they were for ::). I saw a flasher in a mental health ward, probably what he was in for ......... he would pull the screens across the main door into the games room and put it between the curtains ::). I was 11.
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Thankfully I have not had that experience!!! >:( :o
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Do you think everyone is taking this social distancing seriously, especially the young and invincible ones? I don't think so. I say this because I know of a young lady locally who continues to see her boyfriend now and then. I don't know the full situation tbh, she might just be going for a walk with him but She sees nothing wrong with it as ?everyone is doing it? apparently. I know her mum is furious but other than throwing her out, doesn't know what to do. There are 3 key workers in their house so she has more chance of passing anything to him than anything else as he is a bit of a hermit anyway.
I've also read stuff on different forums which seems to suggest that this is quite widespread and I just wonder why? People really are selfish.
If people keep on like this, is it ever going to end? Or because the majority are abiding by the rules, is that all that's needed? The more I read and think about it the more worried and confused I become.
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Hi blot
I think you are right. I haven't seem my bf for four weeks now, but he tells me that his friends are constantly asking him if we have sneaked off to see each other. One of my nieces meets her friend every day, despite my sister saying that if she (my sister) gets it, she doubts she would recover being a smoker. So selfish.
My younger daughters bf keeps arguing with my daughter, because he wants to come and see her, and my daughter keeps telling him he can't. Again, he is in more danger from her than the other way round, as she has to still attend work as a keyworker.
I just don't get it. The more we stick to things, the sooner this will be over?
Jeepers xx
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And yet there are reports of fit young twenty somethings dying. Maybe much more of this should be highlighted in news reports.
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jaypo - use your teeth? Or shout. Loudly! Keep your distance?
I see that an 84 auxiliary Nurse has died after continuing to work in the Oxford region :-\ yet the over 70s are being told that they have 2 continue to isolate :-\
My friend meets her boyfriend twice a week for a walk and catch up - at a distance. She's 32. Sensible. One shouldn't tar every one with the same brush?
Any news of Boris ?
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Any news of Boris ?
Who?? :-\
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Over 70s do not have to isolate any more than anyone else unless they have symptoms or are in the group of especially vulnerable people of all ages with conditions that mean they have to be shielded and actually isolate from the world for 12 weeks ( though not the rest of their household). The over 70s and those with certian conditions ie the second tier of vulnerability have to be especially vigilant about social distancing. In the sad case of the auxiliary nurse I agree she should probably not have been working as that is putting herself more in danger than most ordinary people, but she didn't need to actually isolate. It is important to undrstand what is meant by the different requirements, which are conufsing and therefore bandied about incorrectly in the media sometimes!
Hurdity x
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I went back to the articles that I read over the weekend :-\ ....... those over 70 with underlying conditions, even though healthy, have been told to stay indoors [shield] for another 3 weeks and then some. [Sat Telegraph] - Hunter Davis.
Most of the over 70s are fit and healthy! From the start of the UK advice, over 70s have been told to isolate. That is why charities had to shut their shops, because healthy volunteers are 65+.
I feel that the Health Authority that allowed this auxiliary nurse to continue working against all government guidelines should face a Manslaughter Charge ........ however good she might have been. The decision to allow her to continue working when people have been told not to is in my opinion negligent. She may be alive now .......... >:(
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If they are all of the same family so they would be together anyway: they may have decided to live together in order to keep the business viable? if they are healthy: if they are observing the current safety requirements .......... if they are observing social distancing when delivering? R they observing the wiping down often advice?
If you are really worried you can contact your local authority environmental health dept - the local pubs here had to get a chance of specification or something in order to change from an over the counter pub/restaurant to a take away facility. It's being used every day even by those that don't go the pub often.
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Teresa - good on her! the baby must come first :-*
I think I'm on a different Planet - again today on the BBC 1.00 clock News, 'over 70s must stay inside' ........ :-\. Nothing about isolation or shielding, nothing about previous health conditions ""over 70s must stay inside" ....... DH and I are going to B 65 for years and years and ....... ;)
Even the Police on Westminster Bridge last Thursday - clapping : together, shoulder to shoulder :-\
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Will we get to a point when it's just like seasonal flu, smaller numbers will catch. A vaccine will be developed sometime and added to the annual flue jab.
Well that's what I think might happen :)
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I have done some research on other recent pandemics, and one that stands out is the 1968/9 Hong Kong flu. It killed 80,000 in the UK alone, and this was at a time when our population level was 55 million.
I was 12/13 years old at the time and can remember nothing about it. What I have learnt is that it lost a lot of its potency and is now one of the seasonal flus included in the yearly vacation.
I think we will have to live with it but hopefully it will not be at the same crisis level as now.
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It's been a shock to us all. Not since TB and Polio took over the nations health has there been such a problem. That Spanish 'flu begin in the US and was transported by Service personnel. :-\
Rather than telling everyone to stay in, shouldn't the fashion industry be designing suitable covering which can be washed and dried easily?
I think you're on the ball stellajane ......... don't know how long Two Hoots it will take to get to a seasonal situation as this is continuing due to having new targets to get a grip into. Some may have had this germ twice already, some aren't showing antibodies ...... I think it may be a couple of years B4 we get any sense of how this Virus might travel.
Which is why those over 70 should be able to make an adult decision. The current lockdown is to protect the NHS Staff as as predicted, have been over-whelmed by sheer numbers. How many of those 'special Nightingale units' have been used to date? I hope that these will remain in situ until the situation seems to stabilise.
I remember Hong Kong 'flu and of course, we didn't have the media 24/7 coverage.
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I'm enjoying Life. It's those without gardens or families I feel sorry for. Also those on the front line watching people die in huge numbers.
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Ditto.
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Bored - surely you have windows to clean?
Yep there are things that I would like to resume but can't. I have a loving husband, a large garden, a house that requires cleaning [? jaypo ?] and plenty to read. Occaionslly I get a feeling of unreality and realise it's not like C.mas, leading up to a big weekend then gone :-\ if that makes sense. At least we still have the internet!
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Oh housework isn't enjoyable. Although I feel good when I've done any [except ironing] ::)
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I enjoyed my day at work, a rest from housework!!! ;D ;D
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Can't say I'm enjoying life just now,out for shopping once a week,don't get me wrong, I know how lucky I am to have a big old garden and a nice walk from my home but I want to go to Scotland,or sit outside a pub with a drink,see friends,go shopping,I'm now officially bored
Ditto here as well Jaypo, getting so fed up, finding it really hard trying to keep my spirits up, hate seeing anyone when I'm out walking - but social anxiety is hanging around at times. Don't like to feel selfish about it all as there are so many people putting their lives on the line :(
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I'm settling into it now and find it much less stressful than the first few weeks. I really miss seeing my sons and my job though. I hope they don't unlock us too soon as the longer we can avoid catching it the better as they seem to be finding out things all the time in terms of treatment. It's good we can now do a short drive to exercise as that means I can visit my favourite local walk again. Upside is I've saved a fortune on petrol and the pub!
Sorry about your dog Jaypo. My vet is still treating animals for some things. My cat has to have a twice monthly antibiotic injection which he's still able to do. He behaved quite well considering I obviously couldn't go into the building with him :-\
Taz x
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Jaypo. I've got same with my elderly cat. I cant cut her claws. And she gets mats in her fur. I managed to get some clippers on line but it's very slow progress. She attacks the clippers, not me. It's as though it's got nothing to do with me.. it's just those darn clippers she hates. I cant hold her down by scruff shea got arthritis in her back and I'm so scared of hurting her. But it's dangerous her trying to bite the clippers.
Mum said today a vet on TV said that they are seeing dogs. You have to tie the dog outside and go back to your car.
Taz. I think my cat would be realy traumatised if I cant go in. She freezes with fear in there. She stands on the table and I stand near and she buries her head into me the whole time. Shes 19 .
Xxx
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What about PetsAtHome vets.? This becomes a welfare issue and Vets should not be put off cutting some nails! they have more PPE than the NHS? I wonder what they are charging as they are in effect, 'working from home' :-\ and after hours and Sunday prices are horrendous but they have to offer a 24/7 service :(
I think that boredom will go away. I had a couple of days last week when I lacked motivation ...... it's not War. We know where are neighbours/relatives are, on the whole. We have electricity, internet, running water, medication ....... plenty of kids schooling for those really, really bored!
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;D ...... does he know yet :D
Years ago there were screens in the post office so why not in shops etc.? Shouldn't take long to knock up something suitable :-\ that can be wiped either side.
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I know some people are suffering but I'm hoping we'll stay on lock down long enough that I get a chance to get bored too. Just brought in the last lot for lambing so that will take me to the end of this lock down period. I'm afraid I'm enjoying it too - listening to bird song instead of the drone of rush hour traffic, cleaner air, less pollution, quiet roads, the sheep haven't turned red from airoplanes dumping fuel over our land before landing. It's been the best thing for climate change.
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I've PM you Jaypo re house hunting in bonny Scotland!! ;) x
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>wave< sheila .......... I hope that lock down will continue until the NHS has space for patients. When the rate of deaths halts. Then don't all rush out at once :o and we must keep to cleansing everything that we touch.
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Washing with hot soapy water or wiping down with meths will kill the virus. No one yet knows how long it's likely to live when out and about nor which surfaces it clings to or for how long ;). We will all feel better if we keep on wiping down 8)
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Haven't been on here for a day so a bit behind ::)
However....the government guidance on social distancing has not changed since it was first issued. The overall message to EVERYONE is to stay home protect NHS save lives as we all know. "Stay home" is a blanket term to deliver the overall message that we are all supposed to stay home MOST of the time, and to reduce the amount of time we leave the house for specified purposes which are listed ie exercise shopping etc. Like I mentioned yesterday. The only people that have to actually stay at home completely and not leave their house/garden, are those who are isolating (with virus or household members with virus) or the shielded group (various defined very serious conditions). ALL over 70s together with other people of all ages with particular conditions (also listed) are supposed to heed the social distancing guidelines more strictly which means when they go out presumably not go to crowded supermarkets or go during their allocated hours. Maybe exercise away from crowded parks etc It has NEVER been recommended that over 70's as a whole have to stay in completely. Here are the guidelines:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults
I'm not sure where the confusion lies if any? Probably the use of the term "Stay Home" by the government which of course is not literal ie we are (mostly) not trapped in our homes completely until lockdown ends!
Hurdity x
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As far as I know soapy water will not inactivate the virus but alcohol will yes. There are studies showing how long it survives on different surfaces but the odd virus particle lurking on a food package is not a problem especially if it;s suitting on a shlef for a while and as long as you wash your hands after touching anything that someone else will have touched. The washing and scrubbing with soap removes the virus from your hands. The same with wiping down surfaces with anti-bac etc. It doesn't deactivate the virus but will (help to) remove it from the surfaces.
Here is one study/article but ther are others:
https://www.sciencealert.com/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces
News article:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/how-long-does-coronavirus-live-on-different-surfaces
I haven't had a chance to be bored once especially now the gardening season is well under way. So much to do each day (I know I'm lucky to have a garden but chose to as well). Also cooking. Have tried lots of different things. made my own sourdough starter last week and made my first sourdough loaf yesterday. Shopping to do every 10 days and then next day deliver to and visit elderly relative to do any jobs outside, check they're OK etc. Lots of dramas on TC later in the evening. Music starmes to watch on TV, dramas to watch, languages to learn, people to e-mail and chat to. Family Zoom. produce to cook and freeze (squashes and chard). Never mind housework ( now that would be boring!). Also sitting in the porch in the sun every day listening to the daily briefing (what fun eh!!!)??!!
Hurdity x
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Hi
My understanding, from reading a lot, is that it is the surfectant in soap which causes the virus to break down. The virus has a fatty coating, and the soap can break this down, and therefore the virus apart and thus deactives it.
So soapy water will do the job. There was an interesting article on the BBC which showed that wiping your phone\tablet down with soap, then with a micro fibre cloth was really good at removing pathogens ( the microbiologist demonstrating used some gadget thing to measure before and after)
Jeepers xx
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:thankyou: jeepers :medal: - my husband researched this thoroughly within the 1st week of 'how to clean' advice appeared and that is exactly what he found to be enough. Essentially the virus gets drowned. I do add bleach when doing the handles of the council bins after they have been emptied and once I had been round handles etc with a bleach mix, there's 2 of us here so hot soapy water has done adequately.
Alcohol has to be over 85% therefore vodka won't do ;D. Meths wiped on evaporates and does the job!
Why return loo rolls :-\ ......... they won't go to waste ;D
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i saw a clip from the Press in Italy this morning about a new food shopping restriction. Apparently many were going shopping too often as an excuse to get out of the house when exercise isn't allowed. Some shops are saying that customers must spend a minimum of 50 Euros each time they go (however many people they are buying for). I simply couldn't carry that much home, even with a trolley. I never go over ?40 at a time and rarely over ?30.
Why is this changing my pound signs to question marks ? ;D
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What's that in real money :-\ .........
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Hand gel needs to be 60%.
Vodka is 80% proof, which is 40% alcohol.
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What's that in real money :-\ .........
Only slightly below 50 pounds
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You'd know then ;) - I love the bottles displayed in the supermarket but would never buy vodka or gin ;D
Tnx Katejo ........ ? have become ? for months >:( ........ makes me :madeyes: :D
We rarely spend less than ?30.00 and over ?300.00 every 4 months when we do a Big Shop .
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Yep I was spitting bricks. For 4 weeks UK producers have been telling reporters on various news channels, that they have let Matt Hancock know that they have plenty of facility to make PPE but were waiting for responses. Of course, these things offered to the NHS have to be passed by X, Y, Z ? ? ? but this is a State of Emergency :-\. Also deliveries from China offering PPE Aprons have been a mix of aprons, masks that aren't appropriate etc..
Didn't she think of that B4 buying them ;D
Waitrose this morning: a man with a clicker in and a clicker out ....... DH and I had a trolley each and there are marks on the floors reminding shoppers to keep their distance. Hopefully this will continue.
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Bridge of Allan is lovely, where the footballers live!! We always stop there for a fish tea at The Allan Water, its one of the best chippies & they do fab ice creams too. x
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A businessman has been left angry after his offer of 450 visors a day to the NHS has apparently been ignored.
Paul Dodd says he has spent ?8,000 on materials and wages for the work but after four weeks has been forced to stop.
Mr Dodd, owner of Weaver Dane and Trade in Cheshire, said: "I knew there was a risk buying materials but I thought I was doing the right thing by helping."
The government said it was "rapidly working through 8,000 offers".
NHS workers are concerned about supplies, and have been asked to consider reusing some equipment.
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Katejo - people just have no idea how heavy a single bag of shopping can be if you're on foot!
Lots of people in my area don't have cars so are regular daily shoppers. The only change now is that they're using the local shops instead of going on the bus into town. It's the only way you can do it, you can only carry what you can carry and no-one can get delivery slots any more.
We shop a little every day. OH goes for a walk and fetches his newspaper and a few supplies (same shop) in the morning, then I go out in the afternoon.
I can't imagine carrying bags to the value of 50 quid Katejo - my ?15 bag today was heavy enough with a few canned goods and cleaning materials.
Last time I did shopping, I spent ?38, more than usual. I could just manage to carry that home. It was more bulky than heavy.
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Yes stellajane, we have no car and carrying shopping is hard. There's no way I could shop once s week like the government recommend. They haven't a clue.
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Use a shopping trolley? As long as you don't have steps.
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Katejo - people just have no idea how heavy a single bag of shopping can be if you're on foot!
Lots of people in my area don't have cars so are regular daily shoppers. The only change now is that they're using the local shops instead of going on the bus into town. It's the only way you can do it, you can only carry what you can carry and no-one can get delivery slots any more.
Is the delivery slot problem worse in different areas do we know? We are able to get them here (South) but may have to wait a week or so. Also we have quite a good community feel in our road (since the virus hit) where when someone does get a slot they ask if anyone needs anything which they might not have been able to get on their own order. Our local bakery has begun to deliver as well instead of supplying the hotels etc. which used to take up their evening deliveries. Again we get up a bulk order every week for friends and neighbours. It takes a bit of sorting out (my partner loves a spreadsheet luckily ;D) but as with a lot of the smaller businesses you have to have a minimum order and a few of my older neighbours live alone so don't need much. I love bakery day ;D
Taz x
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Is the delivery slot problem worse in different areas do we know? We are able to get them here (South) but may have to wait a week or so. Also we have quite a good community feel in our road (since the virus hit) where when someone does get a slot they ask if anyone needs anything which they might not have been able to get on their own order. Our local bakery has begun to deliver as well instead of supplying the hotels etc. which used to take up their evening deliveries. Again we get up a bulk order every week for friends and neighbours. It takes a bit of sorting out (my partner loves a spreadsheet luckily ;D) but as with a lot of the smaller businesses you have to have a minimum order and a few of my older neighbours live alone so don't need much. I love bakery day ;D
x
I've got a shopping slot for the last two weeks, although I'm also in the south.
I think timing plays a part. I went online Sunday lunchtime and booked for the following day, I told my friend about it, she'd been trying for days and only managed to get a delivery in 3 weeks time.
I am a convert though, I think I might continue with a delivery after all this settles down :)
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This evening I had a text from my surgery saying that although my condition doesn't fall into the government groups required to shield that this shouldn't prevent me from shielding as my medical history puts me at higher risk. Well I had figured that out right at the beginning and registered online as vulnerable with the government website and get priority shopping delivery slots. I've been very careful and my circumstances makes this fairly easy. But my daughter pointed out that it was just as well that I was retired and wasn't a key worker or still expected to work by an unsympathetic boss. There must be people who have to work who are in this position. What do they do? This is advice, not expectation.
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Many Postal workers have walked out due to close working conditions .......
Good of the Surgery to let you know in good time ?! ?
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I'm in south west Wales and it's very difficult to get a delivery slot, with Adsa and Morrisons the wait if you can get one is 8 days and none available with Tesco, this applies to click and collect as well as delivery.
If the delivery slots are full because people who really need are getting deliveries I'm happy to go to my local supermarket once a week :)
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Both Asda's and Sainsbury's let me know I was vulnerable! it's been a huge relief and I'm grateful. I do not want to venture out as I have made rather too much of minor respiratory infections in the recent past. I only fulfil 2 of the government's requirements for shielding. I don't require oral steroids when I am well. I think I shall carry on going for a walk in the evening, when the pollen count is not high. I live on the edge of a village and last night I saw no one apart from the man in a Tesco's delivery van! And it's easy to keep a distance from others on the unmade road that I go on. I'm too scared to go to a shop. DH is being very cautious, though he will collect my meds. I'm fortunate.
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Morning Ju Ju - it's working for you, don't change it? How did the supermarket have details of your possible vulnerability ? Big Brother ;D
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The system is working I think,
I am shielding, having had NHS letter, I get the government food box weekly, and Sainsbury's, Tesco, Morrison's, Asda and Iceland have all texted or emailed to offer me priority slots on home delivery.
I have chosen Sainsbury's as that is who I usually shop with, have had a delivery on Monday and will have regular Monday slot for the foreseeable.
I have requested my gov food box now goes elsewhere, to someone who may be still waiting for a priority slot with the supermarkets.
The boxes are very good, varied and over 20 food items plus household stuff.
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The welsh government are looking at stopping people living in their second homes in Wales. Apart from the Cardiff /Newport area we haven't been too badly hit and want to keep it that way, I'm sure other rural areas would welcome the same rules.
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Morning Ju Ju - it's working for you, don't change it? How did the supermarket have details of your possible vulnerability ? Big Brother ;D
No I filled some government form in to say I was vulnerable and why. Thought that would be the end of it as I didn't completely meet the requirements of being extremely vulnerable but I was contacted by Sainsbury's and Asda's.
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Good on them!!!
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Ju Ju I've been completing them for my residents. Can you remember Did you ✔️ Yes or No when it asked if you had any support with shopping?x
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Yes everyone who has had an NHS letter, I think it's 1.5 million of us.
The advice I was given was to accept it until I was sure I had a priority slot with a supermarket.
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Managed to see my son today, for the first time since 13th March. He's massively heavily shielded as he has a congenital life limiting and life threatening condition - has previously been admitted to ICU over 20 times in any event. He's been assigned NHS volunteer who's able to help with shopping, daily outside of the house tasks, etc.
I'm still finding the whole situation extremely distressing.
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Ungrateful git ........... there are people trying to make sure that no one starves :-\
It's noticeable that the Church lacks communication with ex-Parishiners >:(. 3 people who used to go to Church or Chapel have had no contact from their respective Vicars .......... out of sight?
How is your son feeling ElkWarning? What do you miss the most - another thread maybe so that you don't get lost?
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Still waiting for my letter.. ::)
Teresa. Go onto the govt site and register. Some ppl havent had letters who should have so I think that's why they set it up.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable
Xx
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Ju Ju I've been completing them for my residents. Can you remember Did you ✔️ Yes or No when it asked if you had any support with shopping?x
I think I said yes for having support.
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I think the guidelines for requirement are rather rigid and for asthma , just looks at medication requirements when you are well. I think that's why I got a text from the GP who is most familiar with my medical history and is aware of what can happen with respiratory infections.
I did go out for a walk last night, just before dusk and didn't meet a soul. I wouldn't risk this if I lived in a busier place. I felt all the better for it, both physically and mentally.
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A big discussion on last night's 6 ITV News.
What isn't reported often even in 'normal' times, is the waiting list and deaths for those needing organ transplants because 1 has to be 'healthy' in order to qualify.
We are going to be in lockdown for months according to the update yesterday afternoon. But public transport is going to be re-opened - how will that work then :cuss:
Consultants dying :'(. - if the medics can't get distancing etc. right in an already controlled environment ........ there really needs to be a system in place where medics/carers remain on hospital property and not go into public spaces. Not much hope for the rest of us.
As for some hospitals, they have been ordered not to take in ordinary patients to continue treatment but are standing empty :-\. R there enough clinicians to man the Nightingale Hospitals: will they be taken from main hospitals to work in Nightingale leaving beds vacant across the UK?
In November the UK was 40,000 nurses short :'(
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Teresa, that is so true. My Mum feels so damn lucky that her outcome has been so positive, but knows that it could have been a very different story.
She had bloods done second week of January for something unrelated. They came back borderline anaemia. Her Dr said because of her age (74) he wanted a stool sample tested. First week of Feb results came back, two weeks later bowel cancer confirmed. Had operation last week of March and was told last week that no further treatment needed.
My thoughts are with everyone waiting for treatment or testing x
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Thanks Jaypo! She really does know how very fortunate she's been, as we all do.
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Great news barnacle :)
Glad your scan is going ahead Teresa xx
Ladies, I see that a group of 25 doctors have written to Matt Hancock on the subject of the 7 day isolation advice from start of symptoms which, as we know, Is at odds with WHO advice of 14 days from end of symptoms. This is prompted by their experience of what they have seen clinically.
These docs are also concerned that the public advice about symptoms of covid is not being revised to include other symptoms they are frequently seeing.
I am amazed that they have had to write Hancock. Is this vital info from the frontline not getting through to the govt?
Xx
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Nothing amazes me anymore. At the start of all this I thought the government was doing okay. Seems I was wrong and their failings mount by the day.
Not good.
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Bless you Teresa, i am keeping you in my thoughts xx
Thank you TC! x
I am going to stop watching the daily update now, they say one thing one day, three days later say the bleedin' opposite. Chris Whitty looked like he had the right arse ache about something yesterday.
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Nothing amazes me anymore. At the start of all this I thought the government was doing okay. Seems I was wrong and their failings mount by the day.
Not good.
What made you think that the Government was doing ok at the beginning? I didn't have that impression.
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Nothing amazes me anymore. At the start of all this I thought the government was doing okay. Seems I was wrong and their failings mount by the day.
Not good.
What made you think that the Government was doing ok at the beginning? I didn't have that impression.
Well for the first five minutes maybe. Now Raab looks like a rabbit, caught in car headlights and all the deception about the EU joint purchase fiasco. Plus so much else. If this crisis pans out better than expected it will be more luck than judgement.
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Interesting article here, Shadyglade, about all those non existent Chinese students - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/10/uk-universities-fear-huge-budget-holes-as-chinese-students-stay-home
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Until Boris et al caught the virus I thought the government was doing OK. The UK wasn't quick enough in it's responses, knowing that this virus was likely from the meeting in 2014. Then it became 'we've won the War so we don't need to worry, it won't get us'. Knowing that we are 40,000 nurses short. Apparently in Sweden they are running as normal because their health service is fully staffed 24/7. So nothing has been cancelled or postponed and any patient with Covid-19 has been isolated - they were prepared.
Tc - the government has no knowledge of industry; NHS; education; care in the community; care homes .......... they are men off the street in a position that they have no idea how to manage.
Nightingales - won't be used en-masse unless there's a huge spike, due to lack of Staff. Can't spread the amount of staff from a Hospital already set up with ICU to a 'nightingale'. They are more likely to be morgues. Had a long talk with my sister earlier and they have got PPE - yesterday after asking for 3 years :o.
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One has to be realistic. a) we don't have the staff to man hospitals and nightingales and b) don't have mortuary space either.
Some nightingales have been used, a few patients were discharged earlier this week. But it's not in the media limelight!
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Well I think what the Government has done is pretty impressive. My friend's Dad is now back at home recovering from Coronavirus and she agrees. He had 10 days in hospital and is home on a small amount of oxygen. There are people like him, all over the country, going home after beating Coronavirus. I think we have a lot to be thankful for.
The Govt have secured ventilators, we have excess capacity in beds, we have field hospitals to bear the brunt if necessary and the NHS is not collapsing or being overwhelmed. They have worked tirelessly, day and night to deal with this pandemic, the likes of which we have never seen before. The opposition love to complain about everything and say they could do better yet they come up with no alternatives. Something they could do is volunteer to take part in the CV vaccine trials but they never will!
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? excess bed capacity ? by stopping all other medicatal requirements. No cancer treatments, no breast screening, no investigations other than C-19 or via A&E.
The media do need to get a job. They need to report on all those that have got well against all those that haven't. And why.
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It's amazing how all these cabinet ministers are praising the NHS now, when just a few years ago they voted down a nurses pay rise.
It's all very well clapping, but what they need is PPE and decent pay and conditions.
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PPE is there. Apparently there's a delivery hold up ?!? why not use coaches that have been mothballed then? Or lorry companies off the road?
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The b*@#*@d government should be giving those nurses, and everyone who works in health care a large wage increase. Without them, where would we be?
Did anyone see in the paper how this company are making PPE but the government won't buy them off them. They can knock out stuff really quickly, but no, they?re having to sell them abroad. Doesn't make sense.
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Hello ladies
I remember a few years ago this government voted against a pay rise for nurses and doctors. They also dismantled purchasing and procurement schemes that would be useful now. If that wasn't bad enough they refused to prepare for a pandemic as advised by a report written in 2016.
I hope good things come out of this crisis and that inspite of it all the world will be a better place in the future.
Take care ladies.
K.
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21 April. from myself:
Yep I was spitting bricks. For 4 weeks UK producers have been telling reporters on various news channels, that they have let Matt Hancock know that they have plenty of facility to make PPE but were waiting for responses. Of course, these things offered to the NHS have to be passed by X, Y, Z ? ? ? but this is a State of Emergency :-\. Also deliveries from China offering PPE Aprons have been a mix of aprons, masks that aren't appropriate etc..
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It's amazing how all these cabinet ministers are praising the NHS now, when just a few years ago they voted down a nurses pay rise.
It's all very well clapping, but what they need is PPE and decent pay and conditions.
I wish people would stop sharing false information!
The Conservatives did not vote directly against giving nurses a pay rise. They voted on an amendment which mentioned lifting the cap on pay rises, amongst other things.
Check it out at Full Facts
https://fullfact.org/health/queens-speech-public-sector-pay/
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Also we need to live in the moment.
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It's amazing how all these cabinet ministers are praising the NHS now, when just a few years ago they voted down a nurses pay rise.
It's all very well clapping, but what they need is PPE and decent pay and conditions.
I wish people would stop sharing false information!
The Conservatives did not vote directly against giving nurses a pay rise. They voted on an amendment which mentioned lifting the cap on pay rises, amongst other things.
Check it out at Full Facts
https://fullfact.org/health/queens-speech-public-sector-pay/
Amounts to the same thing, directly or indirectly. Nothing false there.
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It's amazing how all these cabinet ministers are praising the NHS now, when just a few years ago they voted down a nurses pay rise.
It's all very well clapping, but what they need is PPE and decent pay and conditions.
I wish people would stop sharing false information!
The Conservatives did not vote directly against giving nurses a pay rise. They voted on an amendment which mentioned lifting the cap on pay rises, amongst other things.
Check it out at Full Facts
https://fullfact.org/health/queens-speech-public-sector-pay/
Amounts to the same thing, directly or indirectly. Nothing false there.
We have all been asked to stop and think about what we post and share and report it if necessary. That's why Full Facts do such a good job. This story is only believed by those who want to promulgate it.
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I'm not the only one to make similar comments PF. I have said nothing false.
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Neither do I.
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Perhaps it's time to be grateful for what's been done instead of griping about what could be better. We have enough icu beds and ventilators, something that looked unlikely a short while ago. There is a worldwide shortage of PPE and it seems it's changed every time they take a break - so that's probably 4 sets per person per day. I'm not surprised we can't keep up. Every one of us has contributed to it, we all buy cheap imported goods so the UK has lost it's manufacturing capacity.
Anyone who thinks they can do better - why don't you stand in the next election?
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I dont believe this is a time for party politics either. But we should still be able to question any government in power. Shouldnt we?
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Some good news.
B&Q are re-opening some of their stores. Anyone going to dash out and buy paint??
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Yes ours is open. I think people should be allowed to buy paint, garden furniture, plants etc. It means they are staying home.
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How far is it. A few miles is allowed, but what a few is I don't know??
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It takes me 35 minutes on my Vespa. I would do it all on my own and the paint is already there. Also, if any locals see me doing it through the window, which they will, will I get lynched?
I have not once risked contamination and I am very sensible. I would dearly like to get it done.
What's the problem. I still think that comes under social distancing as no members of the public would be coming in. I say go for it.
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Great idea from Stellajane about the note in the window.
I would definitely go for it Birdy.
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Go for it and add that note in the window as suggested! One has to look forwards and it will give locals an idea that you a) are still alive and b) that you plan on re-opening. :foryou: It's also good exercise, is painting. I had a Honda50 when I was 18 from my Dad :whist:
There's been plenty of PPE in storage apparently - I think I mentioned yesterday that it's lack of transportation in many areas!
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Birdy - mayB add what you saw in the 'wild animals' thread? so that you don't scare too many people on this one ;D
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;D. buck or doe ? [now you'll have an ear worm]
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:rofl:
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Clapping in the open air outside hospitals and then returning to the Wards in those uniforms !?!?!
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SO: forgive me if I'm behind but ain't we supposed to exercise once a day? Essential journeys and home? So why do TV reporters continue to be out and about? 1 on the beach when we are being told not to visit the Coast :bang: I'm fed up with this 'don't do as I do, do as I say' attitude :cuss:
MK CeO has been threatened - however, lots of people agree with me that the TV crew with Ross Kemp should not have been using PPE which is apparently in short supply, now Kettering General have jumped on the band wagon. The Staff there look like they are going into a nuclear reactor! But kit is short ...........
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Go for it Birdy, it's the ideal opportunity :) I have to drive 20mins to Tesco!
Right ladies I'm angry/annoyed our neighbours keep having visitors round every weekend, today they are different to last weeks visitors and they are putting a tent up in the garden.
Our neighbours across the road, her elderly parents who only live 200m down the road drive up and visit. Seriously what is wrong with people >:(
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They have no idea do they! Like the journalists that visit Hospitals etc., etc., etc..
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Clapping in the open air outside hospitals and then returning to the Wards in those uniforms !?!?!
er what's wrong with that? Better to be in the open air than inside I would say....
Hurdity x
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You don't get it do you .......... lack of social distancing. Lack of PPE across the World, so take it outside and then go back to the Wards :-\.
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To those of you who are still shopping in the large supermarkets - please remember to pop something into the Food Bank donation box.
The local bank where my OH used to help out has had to purchase items for the first time in its history.
Up to the start of the lockdown it had been overflowing with supplies, but demand has increased massively.
Worrying times on many levels.
I have done a couple of food shopping trips for the food bank but some of their current shortages are of things like pasta and tins of beans or tomatoes. It doesn't help that we are rationed when we buy them for ourselves so we can't get extras for the food bank.
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We got over that by having a trolley each and going round Waitrose separately. Both buying what was required and putting a little extra into the food bank. We had a list each so that DH knew what I was going to get.
I have also sent monies to my nephews whose works dried up in mid-March .........
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The couple across the road from me have their grandchildren etc visiting everyday for the last 3 weeks. Last Thursday they had a total of 7 visitors then at 8 o' clock they were on the doorstep clapping the NHS!
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I'm trying to figure how this will work.
For example. My parents will still be shielding. I'm not working and if I dont go out or mix with anyone else there will be low or no risk to my parents presumably. But what about my sis and nieces and nephew. They are working or will be back in community so surely the risk be there for my parents. Even if we go on seperate days if my parents pick it up then next time I visit them, even if that's the only place I'm going, so could I. I'm not as worried for myself as I am for them but thats the practicality of it
I cant see how anyone who
Is shielding will be able to have 10 family members round for a meal. Unless those 10 have also been shielding and drive straight there without stopping.
Also, I could go there tommorow if we are allowed because I havent been out for 2 weeks. But if a week later I have say a hospital appointment I feel I wouldnt want to go there again until I had isolated for 2 weeks again.
I think that its important to remember All these measures are not to protect the individual, they never have been, they are to protect the NHS. We will all have to take our own decisions when it comes to vulnerable and elderly I feel and it's not going to be easy.
Xxxx
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It's far too soon to even think about getting together. Not until August! when World Wide measures of how each Country tackled their virus can be discussed to find out how to cope the next time.
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I'm not sure how this is going to work at all. I think Stellajane is right with the Nanny and Grandad day care thing. It's a big ask of a lot of people.
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Something which surprised me. Local paper online ran a story about a singer streaming a concert to a local care home. In the picture of the communal room about 15 residents were all sitting right next to each other around the room as normal. . Are they considered one household?
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Yep. They integrate in the lounge and many have been there for years. It's about keeping the carers clear of the Virus which is why many have stayed for 1-2 weeks at a time. So any virus is likely to be taken into a Care Home via visitors or staff :-\
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Yorkshire Girl - its annoying!
The family from the house that backs on to us are obviously not there. Its Ramadan. My feeling is they've gone to stay with other family. The evenings are the giveaway as the house is in pitch darkness whereas normally all the lights are on.
If it was just themselves they're affecting I'd think sod em just let them get on with it. However if the elderly parents contract the virus they risk taking up hospital beds when it could have been avoided.
It's like they feel rules are there to be broken. Either that or they don't grasp the seriousness of the situation. Like the whole world being in lockdown is no big deal ???
It will be interesting to see if infection figures rise in your area in a few weeks, i hope you and your family are not affected by selfish families who only think about themselves.
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I'm not going to see my family, maybe even the whole year if shielded need to wait for a vaccine.Even if we're mainly staying in, there's food and post coming in.We could be non symptomatic, that's the worrying part.
Unfortunately I don't think that's realistic for most people. People need to work and go to school. Heaven know what damage will be done to the economy after just a couple of months. I am sure there will still be some restrictions, long term, but I can't see the present situation lasting much longer than the end of May.
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They've been muttering about vulnerable people shielding for a year - though realistically it will be until there's a vaccine as CV isn't likely to go away. My guess is that before long they will let people back to work but pubs, restaurants etc will stay shut. Once people are on public transport again I can't see how they can prevent the spread and prospect of another lock down. It's a trade off between protecting vulnerable people and the economy and sooner or later the economy will win. We have a vulnerable person to protect so my lock down will be lengthy.
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It's difficult to judge. The NHS Staff will require rest and recuperation B4 long. B4 the next onslaught as I expect there will be another peak once people are out and about.
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Aarrggghhhh another rant, while on our walk today there were a couple coming towards us holiday hands, in their 60's I would guess, they refused to let go of each other's hands & walk single file, I was right next to a stone pillar (going under a main road on riverbank), so couldn't get any further over. So damn inconsiderate.
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Can't you kick?
Care Homes have been abused by this government >:( :'( - used as overspill?
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I really don't know what they are going to do to ease the lockdown but I can see out and about people are getting more complacent.
I agree we are going to have to accept some degree of risk but still try and protect the most vulnerable and hope that what we have done so far has enabled the nhs cope and continue to do so. I work in a hospital and have to say that on the whole things are very quiet and well controlled.
Obviously pubs, theatres and all large gatherings will be out of the question for some time but I would like to know just what that plan is. And the government will have one already I'm sure.
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I don't think that they do. I think it's a day be day decision based on death rate and by watching other countries experiences.
Who is vulnerable? Many I have heard of that have died haven't had problems previously :-\. Until we can find carriers we're on a losing wicket!
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Honestly our hospital is not overwhelmed. There are empty wards and everyone is on standby waiting for the big influx, which thank goodness so far hasn't happened. I pray it stays like this.
From what I've read, and I don't know if it's true, people aren't being admitted to hospital until they are very poorly indeed. Just being told to manage at home.
The government will have a plan. They just aren't telling us yet.
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Except that people aren't attending A&E because we have been told to stay at home, save the NHS - people are dying of stroke, heart failure etc..
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Maybe people will think twice before trotting off to a&e in the future. Some of the things they come in with! A splinter in your finger is not urgent or an emergency 😳.
There is too much speculation about everything. Just don't know what to believe.
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People have trotted off to A&E due to the lack of GP slots maybe? Also when one feels unwell it's reassuring to go somewhere 'safe' with medical knowledge.
It's time that more information was given beyond 'stay at home' ...... initially to stop the NHS being over-whelmed. But people are still becoming infected :-\ despite being told to distance, stay at home - how? what exactly is the incubation period :-\
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The big hospital at Swindon isn't overwhelmed either,we know someone who works there and it's all very normal
That's very reassuring to know, I'm not a million miles away from there. I heard they've had about 70. Covid deaths there
Jeepers xx
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I have a friend of a friend who owns a string of care homes. He is super wealthy. I feel so uncomfortable when my friend talks about him, that somehow it's just exploitation of vulnerable people, as well as the staff who no doubt work their socks off for little reward, while he just sits back...
I said as much to my friend, who replied ? but he takes all the financial risk?. I'm quite left wing, and that comment made me cringe.. capitalism at its best!
Jeepers xx
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Jeepers: snatched from 'caring for elderly relatives thread'
What people don't realise is that one pays for the whole package: building, maintenance, insurance etc. DH and I were talking earlier today on the back of this thread and he wishes that the care system was more transparent. We don't know if Mum is paying the same fees as other self funders ........... or if they see her as a cash cow :-\. When fees went up in April the lady who had a separate room has had to double up as her funding has dried up, it's quite common in the care industry. She does have a property but we don't know if that has already been sold thus far ...... also, relatives do not have to pay for care, it's a choice. The Government cannot take monies from relatives in order to top up what LA should be paying.
It's emotional blackmail, because many 'contracts' state that relatives will have to find another situation should for any reason the position 'fails' but it's a bit wishy washy as to what 'failure' would be. Mum had 7 days notice when Dad was in a Home. But the 'contract' wasn't specific and she refused to allow me to put it in front of the family Solicitor.
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Oh and that clock in the waiting room ::) ........ by the time you were seen you felt better?
There won't be a herd immunity for several years. My sister was talking about the cluster effect but I didn't understand that either.
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Yes basic queueing at gp's. I remember that, at my doctors when I was a child you waited in a room with chairs round the perimeter. When the buzzer went the person nearest the door went in then the vacant chair was taken by the next in line and the room shuffled down one chair one by one. But you got there in the end!
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That's how it worked in our Surgery too.
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We have had a very low rate of infections and deaths in our part of Yorkshire.
Well we were walking along the canal bank earlier, another 4 boats have moored up on the temporary moorings >:( they are nose to tail, looks like they are on a jolly certainly not essential travel, even on the Canal & River Trust website it says not to take boats out!
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Have they moved to buy provisions that they can't get nearer home? Or to access medical services? I am sure that the Water Authority will keep a close eye ;-).
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As cause of death rather than listing the other reasons on the Death Certificates. There are more up-2-date figures with more information on the web but these don't make the media. Like how many people are leaving hospital, having survived .........
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Gwh in Swindon announced that 100 people had been discharged after recovering from covid19, it was just the local paper though.
Jeepers xx
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I shed a tear stellajane ....... hopefully it won't cause a spike in Spanish cases.
Tnx Jeepers :great:
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Have you checked her profile.
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Or pants :-\
Boris has returned :-\ ::)
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Hi ladies,
Just looking for a little reassurance. I can't remember if I washed my hands when I came back from shopping today, so am panicking. (shakes fist at OCD). I did wear surgical type gloves whilst out, and started wiping down shopping as soon as I got in with bleach solution, on a cloth. I didn't wear gloves for this, so do you think the bleach water would have got rid of anything on my hands? I was so stressed about the wiping down (I am shopping for 3 people, it takes me ages, and I am still working full time)
Sorry to be so needy
Jeepers xx
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Yep. Absolutely enough. Do you have some hand cream, that will ease any soreness in the skin as well as smother anything that might remain. I have to say that I've got less bothered as we are a household of DH and me: I've done the Council bins today ready for collection this week.
The other thing people have been doing with regards groceries, is to leave the bags in the garage or shed for 3 days ....... apparently the Germ can't live for long anyway. Then wipe down the bag and tins etc. B4 putting them into the cupboards.
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Hi Clkd,
Thanks for replying :thankyou:
I do put some stuff to oneside for the three days, but I need to wipe down Mums stuff and my nephews stuff too... takes me blimmin ages! I was luck enough to get some compost and some fuscias today though... funny how little things are so much more now, isnt it?
Jeepers xx
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I miss our garden centres :'(
Jeepers - look on it as cheaper than going to the gym: lift up the bags of groceries, wipe with large rounded movements, leave to air dry, skip round the kitchen :whist:
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Hi ladies,
Just looking for a little reassurance. I can't remember if I washed my hands when I came back from shopping today, so am panicking. (shakes fist at OCD). I did wear surgical type gloves whilst out, and started wiping down shopping as soon as I got in with bleach solution, on a cloth. I didn't wear gloves for this, so do you think the bleach water would have got rid of anything on my hands? I was so stressed about the wiping down (I am shopping for 3 people, it takes me ages, and I am still working full time)
I would say that is definitely enough Jeepers.
Sorry to be so needy
Jeepers xx
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....... and not needy at all, if you don't ask you don't get!
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The figures are flawed Stella,always have been,people have died from say cancer or heart problems but because they tested positive for covid,that's included in the daily death updates
It's very complex jaypo. I looked at the gyuuidelines for death certification. The thing is if it is an elderly person who has died with symptoms suggesting CV19 then this could well have hastened the death. There is a whole hierarchy of scenarios to look at from what I remember. It is far far more likely that the figures from deaths outside hospital due to or hastened by CV19 have been underestimated I think. The number of excess deaths where CV19 not mentioned compared to 5 year average is huge. Which reminds me the weekly data are due out from ONS today. This is the week when the carehome deaths will be most shocking - when they were first being reported in large numbers two weeks ago.
Hurdity x
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Did we have C-19 12 months ago let alone 5 years ago :-\
C-19 must not be seen as the Cause of Death! it skews the figures. Unless a person goes to hospital with symptoms of C-19 and dies ........ if they are already in hospital and catch it that's different and there should be Questions Asked. If people go into hospital and die of other conditions, C-19 should not be on the Cert unless they have tested positive.
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The NHS said yesterday that it isn't reliable enough and may cause extra stress! Why would anyone, why not wait until correct testing is available :-\.
Can say that 'cos my mobile is ancient ;D but nope, wouldn't bother. Not that interested in finding out as I haven't had symptoms - but when the 'carrier' test arrives, I may join the queue.
Tnx jaypo
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I'm always suspicious of 'Tracking Apps'. Can you trust who is doing the tracking??
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Boris?
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My health authority published the number of hospital deaths for the first time yesterday. The area is three big counties, with only a few towns, mainly rural villages. I was surprised the number of only five was so low but at the same time relieved.
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Have you heard about the virus attacking children?
They think it's something to do with the corona virus, but they don't know for sure yet.
Some have been admitted to intensive care, and some have sadly died. 😢
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Have you heard about the virus attacking children?
They think it's something to do with the corona virus, but they don't know for sure yet.
Some have been admitted to intensive care, and some have sadly died. 😢
Just reading about this now :-\
This virus seems to mutate and affect people in such different ways now - it's hard to feel confident in lockdown being lifted.
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Toxic Shock syndrome.
If the records were accurate an App wouldn't be required. People will become obsessed and more stressed .........
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My health authority published the number of hospital deaths for the first time yesterday. The area is three big counties, with only a few towns, mainly rural villages. I was surprised the number of only five was so low but at the same time relieved.
We've had 55 deaths in our hospital and a total of 114 over the three hospitals run by the trust.
Taz x
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After seeing the shocking pictures of temporary morgues in other countries I am relieved to read most areas have low rates even though care home figures are excluded. I dont know how funeral homes are coping, if there is a delay in funerals, any bereavement at this time must be awful.
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At this time of year, a delay in funerals is usual due to season 'flu. My family in Luton had to wait 3 weeks a few years ago ...... there's a mix of ethnicity too which makes a difference. Half an hour in the crem., a real production line :-\
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You say family waited 3 weeks, thats not a big delay here the average is two weeks. Christmas/new year delays are 4-5 weeks :-\
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Yep. But unless we are involved, we don't realise :-\
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I'm always suspicious of 'Tracking Apps'. Can you trust who is doing the tracking??
I work in IT and I am always wary about this sort of thing. Never switch on location on my phone, don't have Alexa , or do social media...
A little inside knowledge is a scary thing.
Jeepers xx
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I'm with you jeepers!!
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I saw a report on tv where the Alexa was recording conversations which the owners weren't aware of :( And the doorbells that show who's outside can be watched by others :o
I cover the camera thats facing me on my computers and phone, they can be hacked, I do it for my benefit and anyone unlucky enough to hack my computer, they would die of boredom watching me ::)
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Our door bell rings if another 1 is pushed but we haven't located which house yet ::)
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When my neighbour had a visitor with a volvo, everytime he unlocked his car our bell rang ;D my inlaws car alarm went off every time they used the microwave ;D
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I'm just waiting for the day when Alexa says to someone
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"
;D ;D
Jeepers xx
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The computer says .............. ::)
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We had a doorbell that rang every time you flushed the downstairs loo ;D
:rofl:
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I'm just waiting for the day when Alexa says to someone
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"
;D ;D
Jeepers xx
;D
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The Virus continues to run.
A meander is fine ...........
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My landline phone and tv remote are almost the same, I've tried to get the remote into phone holder many times :)
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:rofl: did he survive ;D
A friend had a free-ranging African grey that would shout "Oh No!' and the dog got the blame ::). By the time the owner was in the kitchen the parrot was back on his perch.
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Deaths in Care Homes, Hospices as well as Hospital have been included in the figures for the 1st time today ..........
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I used to have a parrot who would shout, 'Is it for me?' every time the phone went off and sometimes he would make the sound of the phone and actually giggle when you ran in to pick up the non-ringing phone.
And he would wait for us all to sit down for dinner before saying, 'it looks ok but it's probably too salty'. ;D
He really said all that ? 😁
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I used to have a parrot who would shout, 'Is it for me?' every time the phone went off and sometimes he would make the sound of the phone and actually giggle when you ran in to pick up the non-ringing phone.
And he would wait for us all to sit down for dinner before saying, 'it looks ok but it's probably too salty'. ;D
He really said all that ? 😁
Years ago I was given a parakeet who didn't talk. I taught him loads and he loved bopping to reggae and rap tunes.
He had mastered my mums laugh and they would both be in hysterics laughing with each other. If I went out the room he'd shout ?muuuuum!? Exactly how the kids would shout for me
He did sirens, match of the day tune amongst many and what used to make us laugh more was that he had a lisp !
X
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Deaths in Care Homes, Hospices as well as Hospital have been included in the figures for the 1st time today ..........
Good. Not before time.
Taz x
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I had a budgie when I was a teenager, who had a special noise for each member of the family. He would flap about the cage when our next door neighbour came up the drive. She was terrified of birds and mum would know I was coming home before I walked down the road, as he would start making a racket. He used to sleep in my hand. He would make fuss if he was left in another room if we had visitors. Lovely memories.
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Hi all
I've just seen an article that there is some doctor in America who is doing a test of giving oestrogen to men and post menopausal women, to see if it has a protective affect on the severity of covid19, as more men die of it than women. Apparently they tested it on mice, and saw that the mice who had been given the oestrogen, did not get such a severe illness.
They admit that they don't know if it will work, so its quite experimental
Thought it was interesting though.
Jeepers xx
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I found it interesting. Also, she had all the C-19 symptoms so testing really isn't a negative/positive result. It's too soon to rely on testing.
The two Ambulance workers ........ why ring 111 if he is not going to take advice? Also, when ever I am going to get a cold, the BCG areas on my L arm itches like made days prior and I feel nauseous .......... which is a symptoms not often mentioned with this Virus.
Also, that ABs can be given as the Virus can encourage bacterial pneumonia. Again, not mentioned in the main news.
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https://youtu.be/mALNyHFqw14
This would be my bird ;D
:rofl:
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:rofl:
My friend had a budgie: "Who's a Pretty Boy, Aren't I" ............ he would mimic the trim phone, the door bell, had free range when she was at home. He loved sugar ::)
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Reports that People are still testing positive after 14days. . The course of infection is turning out to be different from originally thought. Not a surprise as at the beginning everyone was in the dark with only the info from wuhan to go by. But drs and nurses are reporting this. My sis MIL first tested positive the day she was admitted to hospital 3weeks ago today. Still testing positive this week. Does that mean she is still contagious. We just dont know but she is certainly being nursed as though she is and will not be allowed home until she tests negative.
It's at odds with the 7 day rule for symptoms. And the previous assumption that one is not contagious after 7 days if symptoms have gone.
.
This is all important stuff for when lockdown eases. As is the testing issue. as I see it ithe current test can only tell you your status at that minute on that day. I wouldve thought daily testing is needed at least for frontline workers. In theory a nurse, say, could test negative then go in for a shift and contract it and still be working with it for days after until symptoms show, if indeed they do at all.
I would like to hear more from the govt on what has been learned about the virus itself in the last few weeks. contagion period and course of infection now there has been time to collate and study this info being reported back from hospitals. . I think its vital for implementing measures for easing lockdown.
There seems to be very little progress made with the anti body test which if it worked .might be more helpful. But because we are still in such early stages they havent worked out yet how much or for how long Immunuty will last, or even if having anti bodies provides immunity at all. All vital data when developing a vaccine. As is time, to see if it works and how long for. We are nowhere near that stage. And lockdown will be eased long before we are.
So given that. Plus no proven treatments, no reasonable understanding of contagein period and possible immunity and what seems like a weak system for testing and a test which has now proven to be fallible anyway I find the easing of lockdown to be a scary and trepidacious prospect. Maybe it will be the most dangerous time of all especially as not everyone can be trusted to social distance. I've seen it first hand every time I've been out.
There may be those who will think "if I get it I get it" but that is not an option for those whom it could be deadly for. There will be those who get no symptoms or mild ones and those who still have to isolate because we now know just how serious it can be for others and how hard it is to treat. So will we become a divided society until.a vaccine is found? Only seeing otherwise fit and maybe younger people resuming their lives while vulnerable and elderly are behind closed doors and effectively removed from society Until.a vaccine is developed. It's a hideous thought but I fear if it was reality it could be so damaging to society as a whole and to those who would feel not part of it anymore unless they chose to take a huge risk.
Just my thoughts and not very cheery I'm afraid.
Xx
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Exactly my point Teresa. Well summed up. We will all have to take responsibility for ourselves. A society where ppl are just acting as normal again will be a dangerous place for many others.. I hate the thought of being so divided. . It's even more depressing than total lockdown. A new baby is something wonderful to look forward to though. Much love to you xxx
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:thankyou: both. My thoughts exactly. Not enough is known and if tests aren't showing what is expected at this stage, then lockdown should continue.
trepidacious - is this the word of the day ;) .... glad that I'm not taking shorthand ;D
It is said that the Tube will be stuffed full if businesses open. :-\ .......... my loved one sits right beside me :-*, Mum is in lockdown and not very kind to me right now so lockdown has failed 'right' for us :-X.
It's the carriers that we have to be aware of and until secure testing is available and reliable? And people have already had symptoms twice. My friend had German Measles 3 times in the 1960s :o so there are anomalies out there to be aware of.
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:rofl: you've made my day ;D
were you a spy ::)
It's what people touch without being clean anyway that bothers me. I think cinema will work eventually with distancing, but that puts the back row out completely :D. I haven't been to the cinema for over 35 years, we wait until it comes in a video form ;)
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As someone advised to shield, I have assumed that I will be isolated for many months , apart my DH, who also is being very careful. The problem is that I have sorted and decluttered all our paperwork, the photos, my clothes, books, kitchen cupboards, attic..........what else can I sort? I'm all sorted just about. I?ll have to start a new hobby...........
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You haven't cleaned windows yet ? ;D
Family tree?
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Up until lockdown I was going to the cinema at least twice a month, often once a week.Its only ?4.50 here.I love socialising with friends, usually out at least 3 nights a week abd every weekend.I love eating out and meeting at friends houses for a good laugh.
It's been a real problem for me staying in each night! I'm getting used to it a bit now but I'm not a natural staying at home person. OH and I have gone from only seeing each other from Friday night to Monday morning, as he works away, to being together 24/7. It has had its tricky moments as I'm sure lots of you have found too! ;D
Well done Ju Ju. I have not found any motivation at all to sort anything. I thought I would but, no, I'm still waiting for it to arrive ;D
Taz x
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;D must have had a blue moon in these parts. Ooh I've been decluttering recorded programmes as well as stuff on Netflix and prime . Well someone's got to do it!
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That bird was hilarious Jay, I want one. 😆
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What do you do with your peg dolls? That sounds really interesting.
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Great Teresa. Xxx
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I hope your peg dolls are social distancing, Teresa!
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Gordon took his family to Cornwall way B4 lockdown was even mentioned. It has to be the main residence. As for his family visiting, that should be a Police matter. Unless it is an 'essential' journey they are breaking the Law.
Maybe stores have regular shoppers who haven't been infected ? We tend to go to the same girl when we pay and we haven't been infected thus far.
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Son has been speaking to some head teachers who have worked out they could get 7 kids into some classrooms under current distancing rules - hmm!
How the hell is that going to work?!. At my DC's school classes of 25+ are the norm. Are they going to have to go in 1 day out of 3, possibly 4.
Schools can't just magic up extra space.
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A bit twitchy about going to Addenbrookes on Monday.Apparently we can pull up near the dept. Hope there aren't people waiting.. ???
Hope it all goes ok for you Teresa. My DH took someone there on Wednesday and he said it was very quiet still. I will be thinking of you x
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Not sure what triggered it, but Twitter is awash this morning with comments about and by shop workers up and down the country, and indeed abroad, about how few of them have succumbed to the virus despite being on the front line day after day.
Just did a shop at the local newsagents. They're such a cheerful couple and have gone out of their way to try and stock things people are asking for. They must be face to face with SO many strangers every day, they've been working all hours.
Its all a bit of a mystery isn't it?
Ive been wondering why if one person in a household gets the virus it then why dont they all ? If someone gets a cold in a household the chances are someone else will catch it ???
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A bit twitchy about going to Addenbrookes on Monday.Apparently we can pull up near the dept. Hope there aren't people waiting.. ???
Totally understand that Teresa.
I've just spoken to my mum- she says she's been called by her hospital to be offered a routine eye appointment for Monday afternoon. Shes's 87, has Alzheimers and is supposed to be shielding for 12 weeks.
I'm thinking it's a no for now.
it's great to see Hospitals trying to get back to normal but not sure how it works if you?re trying to follow recommended Government advice :-\
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Yes it's not the law but you can be fined for not adhering to guidelines. I think that's what CLKD probably meant?
Taz x
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I thought that, under State of Emergency .......... otherwise the Police don't have power to stop people.
Why can't disadvantaged children go back into school first? So that they get a chance to relax and catch up a bit? It's nearly long Summer hols anyway ::)
It's OK for people to visit if they are keeping a distance. We simply aren't that sociable ;D. Especially if they are all symptom free and particularly if they walk places/back home.
Our roads appear busier, I think it may be that Facebook has been gathering troops for food box drop offs etc..
I don't think that Hospitals would consider putting the public at any more risk than usual when one attends. Many aren't involved with C-19 anyway.
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Two staff at the Yorkshire Ambulance Service (YAS) have died after contracting Covid-19.
The service's chief executive Rod Barnes said it was with "great sadness" that he confirmed the deaths.
An advanced emergency medical technician from North Yorkshire died on 28 April and a specialist paramedic from West Yorkshire died on Thursday.
Until there is a Public Enquiry these deaths are in vain :'(
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L
Barnacle - Truth is I don't think distancing will ever work in schools. If parents are returning to work though, nurseries and schools either have to re-open or grandparents have to be given the greenlight to share the childcare. Don't see any other way.
Yes, especially the little ones at primary schools.
My DC's school covers a large rural area, i think there are about 25 different buses each day, so if it starts spreading again......
Definitely more traffic on the road around here too today.
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There is likely to be more traffic on a Saturday as there are still many people working during the week.
I can't say I'm scared either. Concerned maybe. Slowly going mad :D :madeyes:
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There's an online tool now where you can put in your postcode to find out how many deaths in your immediate area.
In mine its 6.
Low considering there are two large care homes within a mile.
Can you post the link?
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Found it.
Office of national statistics.
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We don't mix regularly. We have usual shops, garden centres, antique centres: otherwise. The people I care about I rarely see as they are busy across the World. So going out ......... I will continue to wipe down car doors/steering wheel etc., the letter box, Council bins .........
Fortunately we live in a village where we can avoid people but continue waving across the road/garden fence. However, if we had been in a flat I would have jumped out by now :-\ or gone regularly 2 the parks, regardless of what the Police think. Pity that they don't concentrate on those speeding through our village :bang: :bang: :bang:
This stay at home was to ease pressure on an NHS that simply was not prepared, despite the governments of Europe knowing that this next Virus may well be a pandemic. Because 'they' don't listen to what the NHS actually requires on a daily basis etc.. This Virus has taken over the Worlds' population fast and significantly within a matter of months, unlike seasonal 'flu where deaths occur regularly but not all on the same day/night. Which is why seasonal 'flu data isn't issued until the Autumn of that particular year.
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More people are being allowed at grave sides now so you may get a big surprise Teresa ;-). It's mixing afterwards that is not encouraged right now.
I worry about 'what if' and have had my DH dead and buried many times ;D - he only had to be late when travelling home by about 5 mins. and I would go into melt down :-\. ::)
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I'm worried for my family but also for myself too. We have 33 deaths in our nearest town 5 miles away and 2 in our large village. It's difficult to know how we will begin to have a more normal life knowing the virus will still be around with no vaccine available for quite some time. My sons are quite despondent about it all and, though grateful that they are able to work from their homes, are all really missing people.
Taz x
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Teresa, you have not upset me. I think you are doing amazingly well, what with your health problems and the virus. It's all a question of degree really. I think we were more at risk at the beginning of lock down, and just before, than we are now. Each day the infection rate reduces so hopefully your fears will too.
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Teresa, you are being perfectly normal! I am fearful too, because my medical history. I've only been advised to shield by the GP, rather than the government, so I'm not eligible for any support. But right from the beginning, I went into the mindset of just getting on with it for the foreseeable future. My daughter and grandson did visit yesterday for the first time, us inside and them in the garden.....grandson had his PE lesson in the garden! I'm lucky to have support and a garden. It would be much harder on my own and in a flat.
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I am very worried and scared about the end of the lockdown.
we will obviously have to reopen our childminding setting but with very different rules, which we are working on now, maybe reducing numbers. otherwise both me and my husband will hide away in our home hoping to avoid it. I am not sure my husband would survive it, he is very overweight, which is a risk factor.
we are lucky, we live in a small village next to a slightly larger village. we have open fields in front of out house and our closest shop is over a mile away, mostly in a road without a pavement. we have walks nearby and a large garden, so we can be self contained. We will continue to get food delivered, as we always have done.
my husband is from Spain, and I worry about how hard it will be for him to visit his 89 year old Mum, we are regular flyers but don't relish the thought of airports and planes right now.
The proposed ?unlocking the lockdown? is what is currently keeping me awake at the moment.
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I had to have a conversation with my very elderly parents. They were looking forward to seeing me soon. I had to explain that they will have continue to be as isolated for a long time and what shielding means for me. Relaxing the lockdown will not make it safer for us. It did occur to me that I might never see them physically again. However we are probably talking much more than ever before, with daily phone calls. Although they have an iPad, they are hopeless with it! Particularly, mum. it's like being seasick trying to talk on FaceTime! Phoning works better with them. Frequent phone calls has meant that mum no longer bends my ear with all her ills and other peoples ills and deaths for some reason, so I will continue whatever as it's less stressful and less hard work. Dad, a man of few words, is quite chatty. He?ll be 95 on Thursday!
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Totally understand Theresa.
After my OH being so ill with it, I'm paranoid.
Listening to the news everyday, made me so depressed, it's not like I was being ignorant, it was more my own mental health why I decided to turn it off and not listen anymore.
We can only do what we?re supposed to do, and try to stay as safe as we can.
I'm scared to go out even after all this Is over. I'm sure I won't be the only one. xx
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Yep. Lots of possibilities muted in the Press in the last few days seem to be leaning towards what is 'right' for the economy: i.e. suddenly allowing people to go onto trains/tube in larger numbers. How will that work if we are being told to stay at home and maintain a distance from each other :-\. 'they' simply don't listen to the Man in the Street who has to get on with Life, or remember what was said yesterday >:(
Dis-illushioned - moi :'(
Why do 'they' keep putting targets into place? This isn't a competition. This is about peoples' lives, work, holiday plans: tourist industry is on it's knees World Wide; Zoo collections are in difficulty, farms like Jimmy's and Adam's although working, also in difficulty due to no visitors. Why do 'they' seem to think that we need to know how vital it is to get PPE delivered within so many days, how many tests have to be done in so many days ........ it is what it is. Some that qualify for testing are in lockdown for various reasons. Either due to working in lock down care homes or due to family members being poorly.
Now it is said that the number of care home deaths outdoes those from Hospitals. Like it's a matter of pride .......... :-X >:(
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I think it's time for lockdown to be considered on a village x village basis regardless of the state of health of the inhabitants. One who lives in a hamlet of 5 houses against cities ? Once members of staff began to die I wondered if the 'stay at home message' was in fact, a red herring.
If my mental health demands that I have two walks a day, two I will take! I met 3 people this morning plus 3 dogs in different places along my route who all wanted fuss that I wasn't able to give >:( ::). The dogs wanted a stroke too ............
Apparently Tesco has relaxed it's distancing 'rules' :-\ so I won't be going there. Waitrose thus far haven't but B&Q are allowed to open - how can that be an essential journey :-\. We've needed a new shower unit for months, but don't consider that it is an essential shopping trip.
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Also how many people that smoke and drink regularly have been treated for C-19 ....... will we get to know eventually? Those that are between 15-69?
I'm healthy. I'm going to be 65 for a long while ;D
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I'm gonna lie about my age if there's any nonsense about fit over 70s not being allowed to do this or that. I might just get away with it in one of those face masks ;D
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A gentleman knows not to ask a Lady her age ;D
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Who says anywhere has relaxed its social distancing rules? I very much doubt it. We are still in the 2nd three week period of lockdown. We should hear about the next phase on Thursday if not before. It is very unlikely that anywhere will relax social distancing for some time, I wouldn't have thought.
Also re over 70's. This has been covered before. The over 70's have never been ordered to self-isolate. Everyone has been asked to cooperate with the legislation and guidance, (stay home except for certain specific reasons etc), with the over 70s and those with certain health conditions strongly advised to do so. They have always been allowed to go out!
Those extremely vulnerable people with very specific health conditions formed the "shielded" group and were asked I think on 16th March to stay at home for 12 weeks. The other lockdown measures introduced on 23rd March and 16th April, did not alter this initial "instruction" and I don't see how any measures to gradually begin to ease the lockdown will change this which stays in place - until at least 8th June?
I imagine that the first measures to be eased will be that certain non-essential shops will be allowed to open prodivded that social distancing for workers, travelling to work, and customers can be maintained and that this will be carefully worked out to "appease" (well give people hope that things are on the way back to what will be the new normal) all sectors of society eg garden centres and other shops .
Apparently there is going to be a plan this week on the way the lockdown is planned to be lifted but the actual timetable will have to be flexible and dependent on the Govt's 5 criteria being satisfied (although these are non-specific). We await with bated breath.
Hurdity x
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I think people will just have to do whatever they're comfortable with. No-one will be forcing anyone to go out after all.
...apart from those having to return to work. People who have been safely working from home or furloughed won't have a choice once restrictions begin to be lifted and businesses resume trading :-\
Taz x
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It can't go on forever though Taz. Lots of people are itching to get back to work, particularly the self employed. It's all a question of balance.
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CKLD I go for two walks a day early morning around 5-5.30am and again in the afternoon. I am getting a little fed up with it all now. My teenager is bored he's 18, applied for apprenticeships but they are all on hold, may even be scraped, which has left him in a terrible position and now thinking of going to Uni next year and try getting a job to tide him over - but don't think that'll be easy either :'( There are so many students in the same position.
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I'll join you YG - I'm going to go out more and more ........ if I can get to my garden centre I will do in the next couple of weeks or ask them to deliver to me. By isolating what other bugs will we pick up once we get into public areas, other than the rise of C-19? If I want 2 walks a day, that's what I will do. Not that I have much energy or stamina these days, the walks I've done recently I would do 3/4 times a day in the 1990s/early 2000. Maybe that would make me vulnerable - a lack of stamina?
The Chief Medical Officer [rtd] was talking earlier and says it would have been better for GPs to determine via detailed medical records of each patient, to suggest who should have stayed at home and who would be advised to get out and about. My idea initially ........ but no one listens to me ;D. I know large people who smoke that are out and about and heathly over 70s who are doing what 'they' decided, staying inside for weeks :-\ - social distancing has been relaxed on public transport by sheer necessity. If 'they' had been really serious, all transport systems would have been shut down immediately.
Oh - new thread? I'll start ;D
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It can't go on forever though Taz. Lots of people are itching to get back to work, particularly the self employed. It's all a question of balance.
Yes I agree. Just wanted to make the point that we won't all have a choice as to whether we can stay in or not so it's a worry over whether they'll get it right.
Taz x
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I agree with you CLKD. My GP thinks I should shield, because of my medical history, but I don't quite fulfii the government's criteria to be required to shield. it's judged on medication normally required. I figured out I was vulnerable right from the beginning. I am concerned for people who are working, but are in my position. Do they they have to go to work, putting themselves at risk? Doctors know their patients and their medical histories. At least I was able to apply online as vulnerable and get priority for supermarket deliveries.
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Stellajane, I think doctors have gone through patients medical records. Otherwise I wouldn't have been texted by my surgery.
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:) I knew someone would take me up on that Taz - I was indirectly replying to Ju Ju and others in her position and realised as soon as I'd sent it that it wasn't going to read well as a general statement
Trust it to be me! ;D
Taz x :D
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It's simple. GPs remember most of their regular patients so could pull up the records as necessary. Then let those considered 'at risk' to be contacted. Obesity Clinics, diabetic clinics etc. could be accessed and advice given. It's not rocket science. It's at the touch of a button.
I worked with a Dr who if shown a patient's notes would remember which cubicle the person had been examined in ....... they may not have been to the Hospital for years ::). As medical staff work in teams it would be easy to recall most patients that require advice.
Hopefully the English numbers will begin to recede: regularly ......... so that a phased getting out and about can be suggested. Particularly for those living in hi-rise. I know my patch and know that I can keep away from others, I don't have to touch anything and wash well on returning home. Including the door handles.
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Yes I am juju and "stay at home" on the screen on channel 4 and flaming "Davina" at sainsbury telling us to donate food to the "most vulnerable". I don't need telling over at over.
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Also furious that supermarket s still refuse to ask parents to remove their children from standing/ sitting in shopping trolleys despite all the hygiene initiative s.
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That's a worrying position to be in Teresa. The problem with shielding I always thought was when the 12 weeks was up what happens then? No magic solution suddenly appearing and you end up just in the thick of it if you have no income and you go back to work.
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I think people will just have to do whatever they're comfortable with. No-one will be forcing anyone to go out after all
when the schools go back I will have to reopen my childminding business, or go out of business. I am really not comfortable with that thought at all, nor are many teachers.
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I'm so fortunate to be retired. I can carry on shielding as long as necessary. I really feel for you Teresa.
But I won't be able to collect my grandson from school, so that will create problems for my daughter.
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Yeah - that comment was directed at people who are not working.
The fear factor's been ramped up to max at the moment by the media coverage. Its doing a good job of keeping people inside.
They'll start to tone it down once they know people are going to have to start returning to work. We'll be getting the "make the economy strong again" message!
I noticed our neighbour going out at his usual work time again last week. There's already a slow drift back. Not enough is getting done working from home.
No indication that we will be returning to our workplace soon. Think we will be at home at least until early June. I am actually keeping quite busy, particularly when it is cool and wet outside so I can't enjoy the sun in the garden.
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Hi,
We had an email from our head of dept on Friday asking us if we :
-are desperate to come back into the office to work
-don't want to return at the moment as they are uncomfortable with the risk / happy working from home currently
-are unsure / may come into the office for some time
I think they are looking at how many will want to return, so that they can make sure we are all adequately spaced out. I've only seen a few responses, but so far they have all been 2. Ranging from a 22 year old to a 59 year old, whose partner has early onset dementia.
I've got used to working from home now, and will probably do it for as long as I can.
Jeepers xx
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In an office most people are sat within 2 metres of someone. Maybe a rota system might work but not sure about toilets, kitchens and lifts.
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<hands stella a brick >. DH is fed up with me screaming at Matt Hancock .......... and other news about C-19.
A lot of people will alter their working practices. Most of my friends are putting in a full day WFH as if they were in the office. Otherwise targets won't be reached and they are reliant on various projects in order to keep the company ticking over. A couple are putting in more hours then they would as they are using the travelling time: 3 hours there, 3 back : to improve productivity and taking time off on sunny days when they have caught up.
As a medical secretary I couldn't have worked from home. As a dog walker in later years .......... ::)
Unless 'they' get the travelling situation sorted once this Virus has plateaued, I would never consider going in a crowded place, it makes a mockery of distancing.
" ...... if and when I start working I'm out all day.If I start my morning job again, my afternoon job will probably expect me to do that [that's your assumption. Is it anything to do with them how you work for in the morning? and do they need to know?]
" .......why would I be willing to do one and not the other? and that one involves catching trains and taking a young adult out socially. [that is assuming that 'they' will think as you do. This should be a personal choice.]
"........ I don't think I'll be able to tentatively start going out a bit more, it's a bit all or nothing. Coronavirus can attack the kidneys and I only have one and that has cancer in it. " [Teresa - it is up to you to decide how safe your over all environment is, I wouldn't consider how others might feel. If I could return to my job safely but not do any others, then tuff ] ?
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...just to be absolutely clear, unless they are in the "shielding" group, over 70's as a whole have not had to lock themselves in for weeks and were never told to (although it was MOOTED as a possibility before the current lockedown measures were introduced). If they have done so that is their choice. The are subject to the same social distancing guidelines as everyone else (apart form the shielding group), but, along with others with some chronic health conditions have been more strongly advised to adhere to social distancing guidelines to minimise contact with others. This does NOT mean that they have had to stay inside and not go out! My husband in his 70's for example has chosen not to go to the supermarket so I do the shopping but many of course still do and there are times allocated for this "clinically vulnerable" group (though not sure if this is adhered to!).
I think we are all awaiting any new measures with bated breath!! I hear today these are being announced next Sunday so no idea what they will say on Thursday or even today. Perhpas they will annoiunce today that they will announce The Plan on Sunday :madeyes:
Hurdity x
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I'll do your bathroom stellajane if you'll do our windows ;D
Had I been a healthy 70 year old I wouldn't have taken much notice anyway ...... because most of these edicts were for people in built up areas and ours certainly ain't that!
Also - why then are the Police stopping people 'of a certain age' and advising them to go home? Over stepping the mark 'cos sure as hell, if anyone asked me my age, they would get told that it isn't polite to ask a lady .......... my husband, my GP and me have the right to know my name, everyone else has to guess ;D and this morning, Matthew , I look :-X :P :P
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Anyone else concerned about public toilets being closed. I understand that this was a necessity in these early days, but I've read that when more places tentatively open that toilets may remain shut. I know it's a problem for authorities, but these few weeks i've relied on sainsbury for shopping and they kept toilets open. I had to go out for shopping and also have to use public transport. But the bus station and everywhere else have closed the toilets. My worry is that this could continue for some time causing problems for many people.
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Any excuse to close public loos and the Council will do. Maybe a note to your Local Authority?
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I could try but the virus will be an excuse for some things for s long time.
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Which is why we need to begin challenging issues.
Someone locally - their 12 year old dog began fitting on Sat afternoon, the Vet refused to attend at home because apparently, it wasn't an emergency. The owner offered to take the dog to the Surgery but was refused .......... usually Vets would take money off people without a 2nd thought >:( .......... :'( the dog died. "That happens sometimes at their age" was the response from the Vet..
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I agree.
My old Dad used to say 'Use it or Loose it'
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I can't believe someone would tell an older person they shouldn't be out, that's so cruel. And mobility is seriously impaired when people get over 80/90 if they don't keep going. I saw it with my poor dad.
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Did anyone see that older woman from the Isle of Wight on the news?
They were asking if people would be downloading the tracking app. Trial starts there today.
She brought out her ancient Nokia phone and said she didn't understand the internet or apps! ;D
I love it.
That sounds just like my mum. She refers to computers as "machines". She wont even have a bank card :-D
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Hope you dont have to wait too long :)
Unless there are some hunky doctors around, in that case I hope your there ages ;D
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Perhaps those who can will do some work at home and some in the office. It'll be easier in the office to stick to social distancing if they're not all in. Some people will have vulnerable relatives so would choose to stay at home even if they're not vulnerable themselves.
Hope the results are good Teresa. I agree you need to adjust your work to keep yourself safe. It's possible they'll change it so that vulnerable people will get longer on furlough than others. Boris seems to be rather more cautious since his experience of it.
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Take photos Theresa of the hunky doctors. 🤣😂
Then you can make your pegs into one of em! 🤣😂 😜
Good luck with the scan. xx
Disgusting treatment CLKD from the vets. Poor dog! Poor people! 🤬
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Thinking of you Teresa x
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The vet was probably right. We had a calf that did that, it was dead before the vet could have got there. If he had been there there was nothing he could have done to save it anyway.
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Good luck with the scan Teresa
:foryou:
Jeepers xx
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Teresa, I hope your scan was ok and the wait short.
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:tulips: :great:
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Maybe our wrinklies should have a retort? "Who paid you to check up on me, Boris?" It's really getting like the 1930s :'( ...... with Police stopping anyone and everyone: but not stopping those speeding by our house >:( :bang:
Why shouldn't they be out and about? By now it should be a lot safer anyway and if stores are keeping to the distancing rules and people have to shop ! It may be the only person that they speak to all week!
Teresa - R U home OK?
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Were you OK out and about? What not a hunky dorey anywhere ;D.
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Not the way to treat a client though sheila, after all they charge enough when we do turn up!
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Have you been running around naked then ;D
"An "intermediate host" animal passed the coronavirus from wild bats to humans, evidence suggests.
"But while the World Health Organization says that the research points to the virus's "natural origin", some scientists say it might never be known how the first person was infected.
"It remains unclear whether this host animal was sold in the now infamous Wuhan wildlife market in China.
"But the wildlife trade is seen as a potential source of this "spillover" ........... "
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Teresa Glad it's over with. Sending love. X
Ladies, Update on sis MIL. They are discharging her. Shes still testing positive today (Almost 4 weeks since her first positive test) but they said she can come home!!
Love to all xx
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Good news Tc - what support are the family expecting?
We see stories of discharges from hospital, i.e. 'after 3/6/8 days on a ventilator' but surely? one doesn't walk out of ICU immediately ? :-\ ....... for starters the quadriceps muscles would atrophy when inactive, so physio. would be required to make sure that the survivor can walk safely.
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All the best for your results, it's stressful waiting x
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Good news Tc - what support are the family expecting?
We see stories of discharges from hospital, i.e. 'after 3/6/8 days on a ventilator' but surely? one doesn't walk out of ICU immediately ? :-\ ....... for starters the quadriceps muscles would atrophy when inactive, so physio. would be required to make sure that the survivor can walk safely.
Someone I know locally spent two weeks on a ventilator then a further two weeks on the Covid ward receiving physiotherapy etc. He is home now. He still can't speak but is recovering the use of his muscles steadily. He has a very detailed exercise regime to follow. He's 52 though so not elderly.
Pleased to read your news TC :)
Taz x
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We strongly suspect our teen son had Covid, even for someone young, fit and healthy it floored him, he spent 13 days in bed and another 2 weeks for the fatigue to go and for him to get his appetite back. It is nasty :'(
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Obviously really gratefull it didn't progress to something more serious, a local teen ended up on a ventilator because of Covid.
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Tnx Taz - again the media don't give us the whole story >:(
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Thanks ladies. They asked if she had a,carer. My sis and oh were not carers for her she didnt need one before this. . They are awaiting a call about a discharge package this aft.
Surprised me she is coming home with a positive test. They queried it and doc said my sis and OH are unlikely to get it because they were living with her when she got it and they havent shown symptoms since. . I'm not quite sure how he can know that TBH. If she is still contagious then she will be coming back to the house and my sister is then going out working. I cant see how there is no risk of spread. Unless he knows something we dont.
It goes back to what I've been saying. If people are still testing positive 4 weeks after first positive test then are they still contagious.? Nobody seems to be answering that. . and if they are then why are we still being told ppl.only have to isolate for 7 days with symptoms. ?
Xx
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I still don't think that anyone knows, even now what advice to give. Great to hear that she has recovered well, Tc x
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My DD has just tested positive. At the beginning of lockdown she decided to stay with her boyfriend and his parents. His mum then started to show symptoms and was quite ill, they were all told they had to isolate for 14 days, at the end of 14 days his dad was taken into hospital with other health issues no sign of corona but he tested positive. They were told to isolate for another 7 days but before she could return to work they asked her to have a test. So as I said it came back positive but she has not got any symptoms at all not even a temperature. Hopefully she will stay symptom free as she has asthma.
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Great news TC. Hope she recovers well. Sending love your way. xx
They said to us when my OH left hospital, just to make sure, to keep our distance from him.
He never tested positive for covid, but they say he had covid related pneumonia.
So we kept our distance from him for about 7. days.
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Teresa - a care package is a legal requirement B4 discharge but that depends on the Health Authority. Makes it awkward: one has to isolate but needs care :-\
star35 - does that mean that your daughter is a carrier? positive without symptoms? I don't think it's known yet how long someone remains contagious ....... whereas some childhood illnesses it is known how long after symptoms appear.
Perhaps: because she's been in contact with sufferers, DD won't show symptoms if she's had a very mild attack? Interesting to see if she has anti-bodies?
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CLKD that's what we were wondering if she is a carrier. She has lots of questions she wants answers to but at the moment she can't find anyone with any answers. She will now have to be tested again before she can return to work.
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How will that test be taken? Care homes are checking temperatures twice a day to make sure that people aren't extra warm which is one symptom. Why doesn't she write to Matt Hancock ;-) ?
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What would they do, does anyone know, if you lived alone and had no one to nurse you back to health when you got home? Would you stay in Hospital?
Just spoken to sis and they have been offered carers upto 4times each day. Sis and oh can still go to work. I suppose if she lived alone it would be the same Teresa. Carers would come in.
She needs to rehabilitate but She wasnt on a ventilator. I think being on a ventilator and the longer one is on it can cause issues which mean more extensive rehabilitation is needed than if a ventilator isnt used.
There has been a story in my local paper online.. a 90 yr old woman who lives in a care home went to hospital .and later tested positive. Hospital say she is ready to discharge but because she is still testing pos the care home dont want her back until.she tests neg . They have no covid so far in there and are acting within guidelines to protect the other residents.
Btw. They have just got a tablet on ward atweekend and linked up to the NHS facetime app. The nurses set it up for her made the call to invite sis on there and held the tablet for her to speak. . They then introduced themselves to sis and oh so they know who theyve been talking to for the last four weeks. How great is that. I'm glad theyve got it now and families wont have to wait as long as we did to speak and let loved ones know they are thinking of them.
Xx
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The same way they took the first one, a swab from up her nose and the back of her throat. She has no problem getting the test done, it's just all the information after is very vague.
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That is great Tc! Shows good care and consideration.
Is it blood tests that show anti-bodies? Will DD be eligible for that too?
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CLKD I'm not sure if she will be eligible for that I will talk to her again tomorrow, so many questions and not enough answers.
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I agree star.
Stella. I understand the care home position too. The family concerned are complaining saying they want her back in there but she is still testing pos.
As star says, we are now seeing how many questions the testing is throwing up that dont seem to have answers yet. Xx
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Ah thanks everyone. :-*All went fine, only in the hospital half an hour or so, 95 mins drive there.Not a single hunky doctor in sight! ;D Results.on the 15th via telephone
Glad you are ok. Sorry about the lack of hunky doctors! That should have been your reward for having to drive so far! I hope the roads were quiet for you.
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That's very interesting. It also seems to indicate that people will mostly be back to work once they scheme ends. That could be when shops, and such like, reopen. In fact any business where working from home is not possible.
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Driven by the Banks rather than 'them' then?
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Hi Tc - I did read a while back that even though the virus can be detected for some time after a person recovers, the virus is inactivated ("dead") and therefore not infective ie expelling the particles from the lungs is part of the recovery process. I presume some of the tests don't distiguish between active and destroyed viruses? I can't find where I read that though! Also I can see how difficult this is in terms of determining whether someone is safe to return to a community. Sorry that's just off the top of my head...what a tricky situation for your sister's MIL and family though.
Hurdity x
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Wait for it "go back to work - help the NHS".
or "go back to work, or sign on for the rest of your life".
All of the schemes were set up in a blind panic and now they are all going to end in in the same way.
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I am due to go back for a routine pelvic scan (private) in May in London and have to book it myself. ( I had surgery to remove a benign polyp last November and need a 6 monthly check for that and for the uterine lining prior to being fully discharged) Not sure whether to wait for a few more weeks as it is not urgent. Anyone live in London and know what the underground is currently like in terms of numbers travelling? I have ME so don't want to risk catching the virus, and also want to leave appointments for others with more pressing and urgent needs. I'm inclined to wait and see what the government advice is next week. What do you think and are what are you all planning to do when lockdown is eased- will you be rushing out for appointments for anything really?- opticians dentists etc are all going to face major challenges as are hairdressers. I am well overdue now for a contact lens check up but not sure I fancy that either for a few weeks.
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From what I understand the tube is not busy at all, as its mainly used by essential workers, at the moment. If you are concerned check with one of the members who live there. Katejo does so you could always PM her.
It also depends on the route you need to take. Sometimes you can do it by normal over ground rail routes, rather than the tube.
Also, any chance you can drive, or be driven in. I think the congestion charge has been waived, at the moment.
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Machair. I dont think you should put off having your scan. Some Good ideas from Shady there. Some lines are busier than others I believe. Otherwise Can you maybe arrange the scan locally if you havent paid for it yet.? You could then send results. Might be cheaper too.
with optician i feel I want to put it off as they get very close to your face but my appt is overdue. . . With the dentist mine told me just before lockdown that dentists themselves are at extremely high risk due to aerosol contamination. I feel sure dentists will have to make industry wide changes to protect staff before reopening When we locked down I was half way through a root canal so I will need to go at some point.
All we can do I guess Is to await details of what standards and measures dentists and opticians will be instructed to follow and then call our own practices to check if they are doing so. I am more concerned that my mammogram and smear test are due this year.
Hiya hurdity. Thanks. By pure coincidence this morning I read an article about exactly that.
A doc from WHO decribing the "shedding" of cells from lungs during healing being possibly responsible for positive tests weeks later and that they believe the shedding process is not infectious. Apparently she was on the Andrew marr show too
https://www-standard-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/testing-positive-coronavirus-twice-world-health-organisation-a4430626.html?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Ftesting-positive-coronavirus-twice-world-health-organisation-a4430626.html
I havent read anything about whether the test can distinguish. It's the obvious next question though isnt it.
To my mind, how effective test and quarantine is in managing spread post lockdown will be about how the test is actually used. And in absence of firm information about the window of contagiousness i feel we need to err on the side of caution with results and ensure quarantine periods are sufficient which may be more than 7 days. .
On the subject of using tests effectively, it worries me if post lockdown we continue to restrict testing to those with symptoms. It is surely missing the point that the reason this virus has been so phenomenally successful in spreading is because of the very fact it produces zero symptoms in many.
X
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Some people however, although treated in hospital for C-19, haven't shown antibodies :-\ so err on the side of caution?
Machair - ring the Dept and explain your situation well B4 the appt.? Could you take a taxi - if there are any :-\. The Staff can read your notes and then discuss if the scan can be postponed.
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Many thanks for your thoughts ladies. I am not due till after 22nd so will see what the gov advice is on Sunday then make a plan for a scan date. Luckily where I go you can usually be seen on the day. Having severe ME means I have to be very careful around infections, so to a certain extent decisions lie with me on this one, not with gov advice which tends to be more general. My daughter who is medically qualified told me to postpone it until the risks are much less, so I think the answer lies somewhere between now and a couple of months time, depending on what is happening generally. The consultant told me it is purely routine as sometimes benign polyps regrow. I hope not- don't fancy that op again!
It is very stressful as my Father passed away during lockdown and there is so much we can't do around that as well. Plus the grief is horrid and the funeral arrangements were just so sad and difficult.
How do we all feel will we be rushing out to the pub or the shops as soon as we are allowed or are we all nervous about rushing to take up our old lives? Personally I miss music concerts more than anything- can't see them happening any time soon. Still if one life is saved I would miss everything for years- I feel so sad for anyone who has lost someone in this pandemic.
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So sorry to hear of the loss of your Father, Machair x
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So sorry for your loss machair. Xx
?Some people however, although treated in hospital for C-19, haven't shown antibodies :-\ so err on the side of caution?
Yes CLKD. I think if someone has had symptoms and tested pos and still test pos a week later, 2 weeks later or more until we know for sue whether ppl aw still infectious at that point wouldnt it be better to err on the side of caution? I'm referring to the potential for them to spread it not to immunity. I personally reckon much more time has to pass to establish the immunity issue. In the meantime it's about containing spread.
Xx
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I hope that social distancing continues ;D ........ whilst I'm shopping. I hate other trollies near to mine >:( ;)
As for 'stay home. keep the NHS safe. ' it's beginning to grate. I was up for advice until the medical profession began to die from symptoms. Apparently. WTF. It wasn't my fault ........... I have done as Boris suggested ........... I haven't breathed or sneezed on anyone :-\ and know exactly who I have spoken to in the last 2 weeks ......... from a distance. Naturally.
Someone somewhere .......... heads should roll for the amount of Staff that have been infected and/or died from C-19.
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I feel the same stellajane and clkd.
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:thankyou: ? little steps ?
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Just heard that DIL is to go back to school (secondary teacher) full time on 26 May.
Oh!! We haven't been told anything yet for our area, either for secondary or primary. What are the distancing measures? Could you explain a little or is she expected to go back without any info? Maybe I've read that wrongly though and she is to go back but the pupils wont be there and it will be in preparation for their eventual return. Our unions are working hard to try to stop any teaching staff being sent back without the proper precautions. I really miss being in school but I'm also scared!
Taz x
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There was a film on the News earlier showing children of essential workers ....... all sitting round the same table ::) - no distancing measures there then. Presumably they were in school together prior to lockdown but the article didn't make that clear.
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Nothing been mentioned here yet (South) about even a possible date for pupils going back. It was mentioned that maybe after half term there could be a return of the more vulnerable pupils but this was not then clarified by the local authority. The idea is, also, that if teachers have to go back before their own children are allowed back into their own schools then the children will join their school's teaching hub meaning that grandparents wont have to get involved. Much like now, where keyworker's children are being looked after in a hub. Our hub currently has 41 children in. The distancing is being strictly adhered to although, when it rained, indoor playtime meant that this was much harder to carry out.
Taz x
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Our local hub has 2.5 children :-\ - for 2 teachers. The half child is cared for at home when it's parent isn't working ....... I think that all children with essential workers should have been in school for 5 days a week, not pick and choose.
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Why? It isn't proper school, more child minding so key workers can go to work. If they choose to look after them themselves when they're at home why shouldn't they?
DD is the child of a key worker and there's no way she's going to school. Like everyone else we're doing our best not to catch it.
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Because I know the teachers. ::)
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;D. that's been mentioned B4 ;D
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So we've been blaming bats when it should have been mangoes... :)
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:rofl:
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Our local hub has 2.5 children :-\ - for 2 teachers. The half child is cared for at home when it's parent isn't working ....... I think that all children with essential workers should have been in school for 5 days a week, not pick and choose.
How do you know how many kids and teachers there are in your local hub?
It's a shame the school hasn't joined with another to make a larger hub. We only had five in ours and so had to join another hub in the area to allow for only one school to be operating.
Taz x
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Bugga - bat soup with mango dipping sauce off the menu tonight then?
Wasn't thought possible. It's taking in from across the area as it is, initially 35 pupils were booked in :-\. If they had been booked in they should have remained, they are getting some kind of schooling in the mornings and play on fine afternoons. Bit like when I was in School, when we got rowdy it was 2 x 2 for a Nature Walk ;D
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Did they test mango blood or wee ::)
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Juice - ?
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Mango snot wasn't it?
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Difficult to mask a mango ?
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Bugga - bat soup with mango dipping sauce off the menu tonight then?
Wasn't thought possible. It's taking in from across the area as it is, initially 35 pupils were booked in :-\. If they had been booked in they should have remained, they are getting some kind of schooling in the mornings and play on fine afternoons. Bit like when I was in School, when we got rowdy it was 2 x 2 for a Nature Walk ;D
It is strange when they're booked in but don't turn up. My small school has a total of 50 pupils and originally 12 booked in. Five arrived so we joined with the next village school who had 15 booked in. The next day only 2 of theirs turned up so after advice from our local authority we moved to another larger school who had a stable hub uptake of 41. Our pupils love the wide array of resources available to them in the larger school. I don't think they'll want to come back ;D
Taz x
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So leave them there ;D
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The number of people getting tested is now up to 86,000 ish per day, but only 5,600 confirmed with it today. The people being tested needs to be looked into in my opinion, every time I've seen someone interviewed at a drive through centre they looked and sounded perfectly healthy to me. Can any Tom, Dick or Harry get a test and can you get a test as often as you want ?
Anyone here had a test or tried to get a test, how was the experience ?
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Think it's just key workers TH.
Think you have to find out where the testing stations are, and go. If your a key worker that is. 🤷♀️ That's what someone told me anyway.
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Key workers. Some have had problems - been given a slot, driven there but the queue has been too long for them to wait. It's about finding out who isn't infected right now, anti-body tests will be available later which is when the public get more idea of the real spread.
Again: they have decided on targets. However many they test daily, the results don't arrive immediately ......... and what's 1 to do, go to work and then be told that 1 has C-19?
Better to have a thermometer used twice a day to check for temperature levels.
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Jaypo and Two hoots. My sis asked for a test 4 weeks ago when her MIL who she lives with was hospitalised and tested positive. . She was refused a test but told isolate for 2 weeks.
She is a key worker (works for a pharmacy) and now it seems things have changed and she can get a test but only if she has got symptoms.
And yes jaypo. You could be negative Monday morning. Go into work Monday afternoon, contract it and then spend the next 5 days spreading it before symptoms appear, if they appear at all.
Since this virus is so efficient at spreading by the fact some ppl have no symptoms I dont see how we will ever get on top of spread by only testing those with symptoms.
In my area we all found out through local paper on line AFTER the event that local town hall had set up a two day testing site.
1. Frontline key workers with or without symptoms.
2. Anyone who has symptoms and lives with the above or a vulnerable person.
3. Anyone who is not frontline but can't work from home .with, youve guessed it ...symptoms.
And...
4. Over 65s with symptoms.
Literally, the only place it was announced anywhere ahead of or at the time was on the head of LA Twitter. Realy looking to get those over 65s tested by announcing it on Twitter arent they? :-\
Jilly. How is hubby?
Btw ladies. Sis MIL. When matron/ward manager said she could come home originally last week she said she would need carers and would get them. That was then withdrawn because she is still testing pos matron said they wont come in. . So no carers but at the same time sis was told she and OH must isolate from her within house because she was still positive. But they were still saying she will need help washing and toiletting. How are sis and oh supposed to do that from 2 metres. ?
A doctor has now stepped in and phoned to say he is not prepared for her to go home testing positive regardless of what else has been said.
It Smacks of the same old "bed clearing" I've seen happen so many times from hospital management.sending ppl home , without a proper care package in place. Its not just my past experience its so many ppl I know too.. .It was a problem before covid and seems it still is. And if you havent got a doctor on your side it's hard to fight it.
Xx
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A Care Package is a legal requirement which is often ignored by Health Authorities due to needing the beds and not having a care system that can cope in the community :'(
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Think it's just key workers TH.
Think you have to find out where the testing stations are, and go. If your a key worker that is. 🤷♀️ That's what someone told me anyway.
If its key workers I dont mind seeing lots if negative results, but if it was general public I would be disappointed that well people are abusing the system.
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Check on the web for your area to find out where testing stations might be?
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A Care Package is a legal requirement which is often ignored by Health Authorities due to needing the beds and not having a care system that can cope in the community :'(
My point exactly. It might not be popular to say it at the moment but it's been going on far too long and I didnt realy expect it to change with covid. It's a management issue.
When my late wife was in hospital we were amazed to see a folded white board which was usually kept closed had accidentally been left open at the nurse station with magnetic "stars" attached for how quickly a patient was discharged. It was purely about date of discharge from date of admittance. With bronze silver and gold stars for the most to least days. My sis took a photo and a nurse came up and had a right go at us."that's not for you to be looking at". It was like something kids get at school. Probably some bright spark managers idea but to my mind highly inappropriate when dealing with human beings and just goes to show how out of touch and at odds with the real business of caring for sick people some hospital management can be. :-\
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However, when I've been in hospital with asthma problems, they've been very reluctant to let me go. Each time I've gone home a day earlier than they wanted.
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Thanks ju ju. It's good to hear another experience and perspective.
Unfortunately my experience with elders among my family and friends it hasnt been the case. I totally appreciate the potential for hospital borne infection and that has to be considered too of course.
Xxx
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Family in Cornwall on the BBC 19 o?clock news last night have not seen their family that live around the corner since the social distancing stated in March, but are happy to speak to a reporter standing 6 foot away
:sigh:
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Family in Cornwall on the BBC 19 o?clock news last night have not seen their family that live around the corner since the social distancing stated in March, but are happy to speak to a reporter standing 6 foot away
:sigh:
I thought exactly that!
Nothing stopping them having a walk that way on their daily exercise either, unless it would be too upsetting I guess.
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People need to get a grip. We are connected more than ever in our History. I still feel that Journalists are making non-essential journeys why is it OK for them to travel but not others ?
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People need to get a grip. We are connected more than ever in our History. I still feel that Journalists are making non-essential journeys why is it OK for them to travel but not others ?
Including a certain Mr. Farage. Who had a visit from the police.
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Oh do tell ............. <yawn> - 1 rule for them etc.?
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Our neighbours are at it again, they had visitors this morning and have more this afternoon/evening - unbelievable >:(
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They've had a street party down the road from us. 😳
And yesterday, next door had visitors.
🤷♀️
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We've had a street party. Everyone sat in their own gardens, there was hardly any visiting or loitering with others at all. Some are outside now ....... 1 person who told me intently last week that she is 'isolating' as she is in the vulnerable category :-\ ,wandered down the street at 1.30 to her friends, OK they are sitting in a circle in a garden shouting at each other: but she's down there still ::). Simply don't spit at or touch anyone ........
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People are very selfish and STILL not adhering to social distancing etc, very frustrating for those of us who do!
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I wouldn't rush to judgement as camera angles can be deceptive, plus they were in family groups.
One Brighton newspaper got into a lot of hot water for publishing a photo of a supposedly crowded beach. Turns out it was just camera angle. Members of the public produced photos of exactly the same time and showed very few people.
Personally I can't be bothered with fretting about what other people are doing. I just concentrate on following the rules as best I can.
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same here.
shows what a judgmental lot we can turn out to be ;D
now it's proposed that incoming passengers on air lines will be quarantined by the end of May for 14 days ...... why not by the middle of March the it was suggested by myself and many others :cuss:
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It won't work.
People will isolate at home and the police don't want to inforce it.
Just more government hype to make them look like they are doing something.
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I'm fuzzy headed so 'what won't work'? discuss ;D
Hype - exactly that.
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Putting incoming passengers in isolation.
There may be a thousand pound fine, for not complying. That means if you have pots of money, no incentive to comply. The police will have powers to remove people, to secure locations but they don't want to do this.
There was a scientist on the radio this morning, and he said it will only work when we are down to traceable cases. When will that be I wonder.
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Why is the UK so different? Other countries have made it work so there's no reason at all that we can't. And yes, it should have been imposed in March. IMO CV check for everyone arriving and no entry for any foreigner who has it.
We've heard enough sh*t from scientists already with the herd immunity theory, maybe should rely a little more on common sense.
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Our police numbers have been slashed to the bare bones, so i can't see how enforcing any kind of new rules will be possible. The entitled will continue to do what the hell they want.
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Our police numbers have been slashed to the bare bones, so i can't see how enforcing any kind of new rules will be possible. The entitled will continue to do what the hell they want.
Quite agree. All that nonsense about 'we are all in it together', is total rubbish.
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The passengers will be escorted, under armed guard if necessary, to dedicated hotels for 2 weeks. It may discourage people from travelling for a while. This is 1 issue that should be under a Public Enquiry: why weren't people immediately isolated. Many countries shut their borders immediately :-\
I wonder where these Police suddenly appear from :-\
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The passengers will be escorted, under armed guard if necessary, to dedicated hotels for 2 weeks. It may discourage people from travelling for a while. This is 1 issue that should be under a Public Enquiry: why weren't people immediately isolated. Many countries shut their borders immediately :-\
I wonder where these Police suddenly appear from :-\
I don't know where you got that from. That's not what was talked about this morning. People where expected to self monitor at home, after giving the police their address.
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It was talked about on various news streams weeks ago but never happened: and again yesterday when it was muted ......... hotels were certainly mentioned.
Herd immunity simply won't happen for several years. Despite what the Prof who stepped down recently initially thought: and believed, hence his allowing the girlfriend to travel across London to visit him ::) There R still too many unknowns and not enough truth being put out to encourage the public to accept the advice/Laws under a State of Emergency. Wonder how often Boris has changed his mind today ???
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Yep, remember when he laughed about visiting a hospital, and shaking hands, right at the beginning of the crisis.
Very funny.
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The Guardian is reporting this morning, that the real Care homes death rate is 22,000, and not the 10,000 as per government figures. If so it's truly shocking and a daming indictment of how this government has handled the crisis.
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It depends on how many GPs filled Death Certificates incorrectly >:(. Many have signed C-19 when residents haven't shown any symptoms. Not many GPs would have seen C-19 first hand.
Teresa - I began a 2nd thread about the new surges .......
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The Guardian is guessing just like everyone else. Unless someone has tested positive you just don't know. I'm sure there are some who died from CV but it isn't on their death certificate and vice versa
I think Teresa's right, there'll be a spike 2-3 after the Bank Holiday.
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It's not a guess. The LSE have been through the data, and it's their conclusion.
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Who is the LSE?
Also I know that many GPs have signed C-19 on Death Certs. without a test or symptoms. There was a huge article in the Daily Telegraph 1 day last week about the fact that many DCs are going to be incorrect. Which is actually a Crime.
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London School of Economics.
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It's not a guess. The LSE have been through the data, and it's their conclusion.
Sorry I was wrong. I hadn't realised they were clairvoyant. Perhaps they could tell us the lottery numbers too? ;D
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:rofl:
Oh, you are a one Sheila.
Current figures of course.
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Herd immunity simply won't happen for several years. Despite what the Prof who stepped down recently initially thought: and believed, hence his allowing the girlfriend to travel across London to visit him ::) There R still too many unknowns and not enough truth being put out to encourage the public to accept the advice/Laws under a State of Emergency. Wonder how often Boris has changed his mind today ???
It was the modelling paper by the epidemiologist, "the Prof who stepped down" (and others?) that actually warned that if the govt adopted the herd immunity strategy in the absence of a vaccine ie letting the disease run its course, there could be 250,000 deaths, and which led rapidly to the lockdown we have been experiencing for the past few weeks in order to "flatten the peak" and ensure hospital admissions remained within capacity (by creating more).
Hurdity x
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The Guardian is guessing just like everyone else. Unless someone has tested positive you just don't know. I'm sure there are some who died from CV but it isn't on their death certificate and vice versa
I think Teresa's right, there'll be a spike 2-3 after the Bank Holiday.
There will of course be some inaccuracies either way but far far more likely that more people died from or hastened by CV19 than has been recorded. You only have to look at the excess deaths so far (ie excess compared with five year average) which is far higher than reported CV positive deaths, and probably even than the total including reported deaths where CV19 was also mentioned but where a positive test had not been obtained.
Who is the LSE?
Also I know that many GPs have signed C-19 on Death Certs. without a test or symptoms. There was a huge article in the Daily Telegraph 1 day last week about the fact that many DCs are going to be incorrect. Which is actually a Crime.
The weekly stats from the ONS paint a clearer picture, and also we have been through this before about death certs. Yes CV19 can be put on the death cert without confirmation but probably less so now that more testing is available which it wasn't before. You said a few weeks back about crimes etc. It's a very complex process not taken lightly I don't imagine. The guidance to doctors is very involved and is available on the web. I posted about this before. I wouldn't trust anything I read in the Telegraph anyway ;D. Yes there will have been some mistakes I'm sure but I can't imagine they are mostly incorrect and especially not deliberately so :-\ . From what I've read it is reasonable to put CV19 on the death cert if doc believed that it hastened the person's unfortunate death but that other causes would also be put down. The ONS analysis looks at various scenarios from what I recall. Again very involved.
Hurdity x
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well The Telegraph found out about PMs fudging their expenses claims, anyone remember the duck house in the middle of a pond that the Tax payers were charged for?
They also have access to other issues that organisations probably wouldn't think to investigate.
It shouldn't be involved. If someone has shown no symptoms of C-19 but dies then the issue of this particular virus should not be thought about.
On a slightly different issue: I haven't heard once that Nursing Homes have had any deaths. It's always quoted 'care homes' or 'care sector' so have they all been put together?
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Hiya ladies. Just thought I'd let you know sis MIL is home. She was clapped put of the ward. She finally tested negative. She was definitely treated with hydroxychloroquine.
Xx
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That's great news. Tc! :)
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:ola: :bouncing: that's great, tnx for the update!
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Hiya ladies. Just thought I'd let you know sis MIL is home. She was clapped put of the ward. She finally tested negative. She was definitely treated with hydroxychloroquine.
Xx
Really good news 🙂
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Hiya ladies. Just thought I'd let you know sis MIL is home. She was clapped put of the ward. She finally tested negative. She was definitely treated with hydroxychloroquine.
Xx
:clapping:
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Thank you all. Its good news to know someone of 79 who has recovered. Xx
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Zoom meeting for all of our school staff this afternoon setting out return to school details :-\
Taz x
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Are you primary or secondary Taz? Can't understand the sense in opening for the age groups least able to social distance.
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I'm primary - LSA and ELSA (emotional/pastoral support) with a very amazing headteacher. It is considered too soon by most of the schools we are in contact with. It's seen as an economic decision to enable parents to begin working again but it is going to be a totally different school day from what I can see. Different drop off and pick up times for different age groups. None of the things that the children usually associate with being in school with their friends. I can see it unsettling the littlies even more to be honest. Still there's still over two weeks to go so who knows what the infection rate will be doing by then.
My Head has made the decision that I shouldn't return at the moment due to my age (66) which I am grateful for and I can continue to work at home with the emotional support role so I feel that I am at least doing something useful!
Taz x
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If this is so that parents can return to work: how will it fit in with setting down and picking up at school? Surely children have to go back full time if parents go back? Why not have the whole Summer off, gradually introducing kids back to their friends locally? If they don't get time in senior school, tuff. We had to go from Primary into Secondary education after that long Summer holiday, we survived. Kind of :-\.
How do U feel about it Taz2?
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Nice they your head is understanding. There are countries where kids don't go to school til they're older so I'm sure they'd survive without it. I'd send back older children instead.
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I think in some European countries they don't start until the age of ? 8 ? ..........
Here we are:
"Most European countries have a compulsory school starting age of six. Six is also the most common school starting age world-wide.
"The UK has a younger school starting age (five) and many children start school at four.
"Northern Ireland has the lowest compulsory school starting age (from four years and two months)".
What age do children start school in Iceland?
The law states that education is mandatory for children and adolescents between the ages of 6 and 16.
The school year lasts nine months, and begins between August 21 and September 1, ending between May 31 and June 10.
France
Under new reforms announced by President Macron, French children will start school at the age of three instead of six from September 2019. However, this is only likely to affect a small share of children as most parents already send their children to school at three anyway.
Macron said that the change should reduce inequality in education as poorer parents and families in overseas territories are not as likely to send their children to school at an early age.
How does France compare with other European countries? Across much of the continent, including Germany, Italy and Spain, six is the standard starting age. There are some exceptions, however, with children in Latvia and Sweden starting school at seven according to the European Commission.
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Thats a relief taz. X
I would like to see the teenagers back to school. Surely it's a more important time in education than 5 or 6? And harder for parents to home school? Just a thought as I dont have kids or grandchildren so easy for me to say. But the teenagers are all congregating again in the streets in my area.
Xxx
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Personally I can't be bothered with fretting about what other people are doing. I just concentrate on following the rules as best I can.
I'm the same. I hear about teens, adults, elderly etc not abiding by the rules and I'm not outraged by it. I've enough to think about in my own life tbh. I?ll do the best I can personally and leave it at that.
Things are definitely changing though and loads of people are just popping out to whatever shops are open, just to break the monotony whether it's essential or not. Or looking for excuses to go out to pick things up.
I'm getting more and more disheartened as it seems like this is never going to end. The daily statistics scare me and I just don't read the papers any more because I don't know what to believe ☹️
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Tc I completely agree with you teenagers should be back in school ASAP. I was having this discussion with hubby last night, from Yr 9 they are starting studying for their GCSE's, just a few weeks behind can cause a backlog, as teachers allow so many weeks for each say book in English Lit, or a module in computer science it will have an impact. My son is 18 and was due to sit his A-levels now, he's hoping he's done enough on his mocks & assessments!
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Politicians seem to be able to change their minds as to what might be safe? Of course the economic climate is pushing them to reopen schools so that more parents return to work! so are trying to fudge over how safe the children may be. What if a child picks up from a carrier showing no symptoms and takes the virus home? We don't know enough about C-19 yet!
Watch other countries I would say ;-)
The children will catch up. The current education system puts far too much pressure on children due to Ofsted. If they miss year ? we were a year later going to Uni [can't remember why :-\] but we didn't suffer any hardships.
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I think it must be the most difficult task. I would not like to be making these decisions. I do think schools reopening is an economic decision, but I can understand that one too.
I work part time and my husband works full time. We are both at home just now. If it wasn't for my part time hours, the kids would get no support with their schooling. It's very hard going.
I'm in Scotland so we have no idea what's happening with our schools. I don't even care what the decision is now, i just want to know...... We finish a lot earlier for summer, so probably looking unlikely we will get back.
However, you mentioned just getting on with the move to high school CLKD. I'm sure that is the case for a lot. But, I can assure you, some kids need that extra time to adjust. Unfortunately my primary leaver is one of them. Big on anxiety and worries, he was meant to get big transition. Coming from a small village school, I'll unlikely get him on the high school bus if he misses all transition. I'm just hoping they do some in Aug instead of rushing them in.
Everyone is different, everyone has their own reasons for or against schools reopening. Whatever choice the gov made, would be the wrong one with a lot of folk. I don't think there is any pressure to send your kids. But some people won't have that luxury.
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I expect that Education Authorities will fine parents ........ which in my opinion should stop anyway.
I had anxiety even B4 I went to school. Also Big School is now much bigger than when I was in education. It didn't lead well to Interviews either ::) ........ but transition doesn't happen in the real world :-\.
From Stay at Home Keep the NHS Safe - to putting children back into school. Parents at the gates, kids on buses/transport ........ all possible transmitters of the virus?
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No, there will be no fines until September.
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I supported [ ? supposed ? ] DH whilst he went to Uni., on ?14.00 a week and a Grant ::)
Pupils were often kept back a year in Infant and Primary School. Heads didn't have to accept pupils if they didn't reach a specific standard. We were streamed so that no one felt under stress by being in a group that they weren't suited for. Those that caught up in senior school were promoted in the appropriate stream. Job Done.
I can't understand why parents have children then dump them with others to raise :-\ they miss so much interaction during their formative years.
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CrispyChick, i completely understand your concerns about your DS and moving up schools. 3 years ago my two went from a very small village primary to a bigger than average secondary school. Even without the usual transition days, i'm sure that they will try to put some plans in place, so that the new pupils do get more time to settle. I hope it goes ok for him x
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Thank you Barnacle.
I'm in two minds about the whole thing. He is very happy and content at home. Being away from school and peers has resulted in an 'out of sight, out of mind' scenario, so he is actually less stressed about the whole high school thing just now. But, ultimately, I know he needs the benefit of some transition.
What will be, will be. I have faith that schools will make it work. Like I say, I just wish Sturgeon would share her thinking. At least then we could all make things work, whichever way they turn out.
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Is your son in touch with his Peer group at all? Are they able to share how they are feeling? Maybe it's not 'macho' but perhaps you could give your son a scenario when you had to face change, how you felt, how it worked out, who you shared your worries with.
Mum would say 'you'll be alright when you get there' and I was. But that did NOT help how I felt leading up to an event >:(.
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Hello ladies.
If my children were school age now I would keep them at home until September. We are nearly at the Summer holidays and by the Autumn we will have a better idea about how the virus is spreading.
I'm concerned that we don't yet have adequate plans in place to replace the Lockdown. Today I noticed that many trades people were back at work and none of them were social distancing. I hope we don't have another rise in cases in two weeks time as a result.
Wishing you well ladies.
K.
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The problem is if parents have to start going back to work what happens to the children, if not in school? Parents are already pulling their hair out trying to home school & some are having to work from home as well. When the summer holidays come round that's another 6 weeks of having to keep them entertained. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. So glad I'm not in this position.
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Did anyone watch that science program last night on ITV ( I think)
They said it could be another 12 months of living like this.
No sign of a vaccine yet. it's something we have to adjust to, because life has to go on.
And, a professor said, there WILL be more pandemics like this one in the future, virus's they know nothing about yet. Virus's that jump from animals to human. They just don't know when. it's a scary thought!
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Yeah, don't think the ?norm? will be for a long time yet.
I'm getting used to staying in. I loved going out, shopping, etc, but the worry is just too much. Yet when I see people, ( like next door neighbours) all getting together and having people round, I question myself. Am I over reacting? I have an underlying health worry, and I'm scared to go out because of it, maybe I?ll undo all my hard work up to now and catch it!
Maybe I won't. 🤷♀️ After seeing my OH with it, it scares me to death!
I know a little of how your feeling Theresa, but it must be terrifying for you with the cancer too. There's only one option, you have to keep yourself as safe as you can, just keep thinking, one day, this will all be over. And maybe a new way of doing things WILL be our ?norm? .
Don't let this beat us, we have to carry on, we've people who love us, we have to for them.
xxxxx
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Hello again ladies.
The likelihood of other viruses infecting humans is increased by the way we keep animals. Factory farms and wet markets act like petri dishes for developing mutations. If we can change our method of food production we can have much better control of disease spread.
Apparently in Malaysia a few years ago a factory farm that kept pigs had an outbreak of a new disease and many of the workers died. The government were quick to act and destroyed the pigs and the factory. I can't remember the the name of the virus but the scientists involved calculated a death rate for humans of 40%.
Hopefully many lessons will be learned and we can find ways to prevent another pandemic or at least be able to contain it.
Take care ladies and stay safe.
K.
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Just to be clear, the term 'Wet Market' just means frest produce, eg meat, fish, vegetables etc.,
It's constantly being misused in the media and causing confusion.
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Hello again ladies.
I thought 'wet market' was the right description for markets selling live animals, I had no idea it meant more than that. Just goes to show how an inappropriate term can stick! Not great when we need to be as accurate as possible to deal with the virus.
Wishing you well ladies.
K.
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Exactly right Kathleen. The trouble is we tend to look at things like this from a first world perspective. Unfortunately in much of the third world there is often limited or little electricity, so no refrigeration, and no supermarket, particularly in rural areas. The selling of 'live' food is therefore a necessity, and not something that can just be changed by legislation. It's a problem of poverty, as is the Bush meat trade.
Even if it could be stopped there will always be close contact between people and animals, wild and domestic, in rural Asia, Africa, South America etc., If I remember rightly 60% of the known virus in humans originated in animals. It's just not possible to separate the two completely. Also, the eating of animals is not the danger, it's the handling whether dead or alive.
I don't think there is a simple solution to this problem.
Update - I have just read that the authorities on Wuhan have now officially banned the selling, eating and breeding of wild animals. This is of course great news. However the cynic in me thinks it will just drive the trade under ground.
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It's well known diseases can spread rapidly when animals are factory farmed. We don't seem to have worked out the same thing happens when people live in similar conditions.
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Yes, that's very true. It's very worrying what is happening with in Latin American countries such as Brazil. The well off have low infection rates, but the poor who live in overcrowded, insanity conditions has been affected badly.
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Sadly the Chinese Government banned these practices years ago, but the pangolin in particular has scales that are an aphrodisiac. One of the rarest animals in the World. Wet markets continue to thrive. Historically because of a lack of keeping food stuffs fresh as well as eating different dishes to the Western World.
France still sells live produce: Geese, ducks, chickens, snails .......... the UK has been battery farming without problems for years apart from the cruelty aspect, now the public are moving away from cheap UK food: since the horse meat scandal, remember that? : but we aren't told clearly enough where cheap chicken is raised. How some foods are raised in Europe but packed in the UK meaning it is British ......
The 1st World Governments knew that the next pandemic would be C-19. They weren't sure when it would begin nor where it would start from. Most European countries stocked piled PPE apart from the UK. Apparnently. Some PPE was delivered with a date use b4 2014 [I think] ::).
I suspect that the slum dwellers World wide have high death rates routinely. Usually the media don't focus on those.
TB is another big killer which is of course treatable.
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Yes, that's very true. It's very worrying what is happening with in Latin American countries such as Brazil. The well off have low infection rates, but the poor who live in overcrowded, insanity conditions has been affected badly.
Doesn't help having a crazy leader either!
Hurdity x
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;D. name me a country that doesn't ?
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Narnia :) ;D
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What R U on ;D
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I want to live in Narnia. ;D
Oh hang on, I do most days! 🤪
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;D. name me a country that doesn't ?
Haha I did think when I posted that about Trump and Bojo but i think the Brazilian guy is somewhat more extreme in the current situation than most!
How about New Zealand for one (ie doesn't have a crazy leader). Jacinda Adern. Everyone should hear about her!
Hurdity x
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However: a friend who lives in NZ :-X
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Very few countries with female leaders have done badly in this crisis. Just goes to show, men think with their dicks!!!
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:rofl: Yep!
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Hiya ladies. I had to get emergency plumber in. I said to.him on phone I will leave door ajar as I'm isolating I will go into the other room. He said "dont worry I havent got the lurgy". Some people just will never ever get it will they :(
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OMG TC. What a plank! 🤨 bet you felt like, :beat: 😂
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I did JD. Especially when he started coughing the minute he came through the door x
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I cough. A lot. Due to allergic rhinitis. But at least he told you he hasn't got it. But we don't know how many might be carriers? Once the test is rolled out .......
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Still no lifting in any restrictions in Wales for another week :-\ its getting difficult now after 9 weeks and seeing a slow lifting in England on the news.
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The Welsh don't want the English to visit - no change there then ;)
Norfolk and Suffolk plus in the South of England - their beaches have been full, but I think people are keeping a good distance. We're English ain't we so don't interact with strangers :o. It's toilets and car park remaining shut that is the largest problem!
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I would love to chuck the DC's and the dog in the back of the car and drive to Wells this afternoon. In theory i could, but i can't see myself doing it for quite some time.
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Nooooooooooo,have you disinfected the place TC?🤬
Yes with wipes. He is coming back.later. It's a major issue. . He is calling another guy in. This is the trouble with isolating. No one has been in my flat since lockdown. But when things Like this happen there is no choice. My bath filled up last night to the brim with sewage water so I'm already freaking out about the potential health hazard there then he comes in not wearing a mask and coughing and has touched just about every surface in bathroom and kitchen. my anxiety is going through the roof. :(
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Aww TC. I'm feeling your anxiety. :'( AND anger. !!
When they've gone, spray disenfectant all over, don't wipe, just let it dry. ( as long as you've got some)
We did that when my OH left the bedroom , to go to hospital, sprayed everywhere, and just left it.
As for the bath, 😩 oh Jesus, I'm so sorry, must be terrible for you. :bighug:
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It's backing up somewhere then? At least you have guys prepared to help, some would walk away!
You've more issues with sewage than C-19 ;-). Get those Marigolds on, lots of bleach and Jaycloths ;-). Good exercise?
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I cant run any water. Even in kitchen it comes up into bath. It's a major thing possibly from lower down in the block. My letting agent is calling council. Atm I'm waiting on a plumber as the panelling in bathroom and kitchen has to be "ripped out" to get to pipes. Drain guy said he "doesnt touch copper piping". Sorry this is way off topic. Although the issue of workmen and distancing /wearing masks isnt.
I filled jugs of water but tbh I've opened my weekend bottle of wine. Its 5 o clock somewhere.....oh wait...its 5 o clock here!!! Shame ve only got one and I'm a two bottle kind of girl. 😃
Jd. At least you didnt spray Mr JD with it!! My cousin s OH had symptoms and was isolated from fam in bedroom. pretty unwell but he txt me saying "help me. Kathy bates has locked me in my room and every time I come out she follows me round with a disinfectant spray".
How is Mr JD now?
X
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Quite frankly your Landlord should rehouse you! What's it to do with the Council ......... no sewage should back up anywhere!! R these plumbers for real, regulated - CORGI registered? I feel helpless but I would be asking for them to put me into a B&B/Hotel somewhere!!
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The problem may be outside the building in the main sewer. It should be the water company that should be contacted surely.
My heighbour, over the road, had a similar problem and it was a broken sewer pipe that caused the waste to back up.
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With Bank Holiday on the horizon I would tell the Landlord that I'm off to a Hotel ;-). Did anyone C the sink hole due to a sewer collapse but can't remember where ::)
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Tc I don't think it's a copper pipe problem. Someone will have put kitchen roll/wet wipes/nappy down their toilet and blocked the sewage pipe. If they're privately owned flats I don't think the council have any responsibility for it. It probably needs your landlord to contact the managing agent for the block of flats, they need a drainage man not a plumber. Bad timing though, I hope they can get someone out soon. How high up the block are you? It happened in our flats during the loo roll shortage, upstairs tenant used kitchen roll and wet wipes so downstairs tenant had sewage coming up in her sink when she turned the tap on. Didn't do her OCD any good...
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Bad design too!
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He's doing great thanx TC. Doing more every day. 😊 xx
Think that sink hole CLKD was in Walsall. Massive it was. x
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Tnx!
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Good to hear that jd. Great news
Thank you ladies. I'm in top floor. The council are responsible for block. Most people in block are council tenants. My flat was purchased by my landlord and I rent it through an agency. Its a very old council block and very little has been done to update it. Or maintained it. At moment they ate carrying out works to comply with grenfell
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Your Landlord should have been updating and maintaining it. How R U this morning?
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Teresa you hit the nail on the head there.
I'm o.k thanks CLKD. The plumber never materialised. Guy at the agency isnt taking calls sent me a message saying he doesnt work weekends. And that he doesnt know when plumber will come. My message asking for the plumbers number went unanswered so I've just had enough. I phoned the council emergency number and they are sending someone today.
The stupid thing is the agency think they are passing the buck to the council but the council will charge them. I think. I hope they dont try to charge me!!!
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Do you have a Rental Contract which will tell you who pays, surely?
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Flats are different to houses, a house owner has control (and responsibility for) everything up to their boundary but that isn't the case in flats where services, roof, common areas etc are shared. Then it's the responsibility of the managing agent. They won't work at weekends and need to get more than one quote so it's likely to take longer to organise. If it's something expensive there are additional hoops to jump through with the owners.
Sewage backing up is a health hazard though and needs to treated as an emergency, I'm glad the council are acting swiftly. Probably payment will be through the service charge the landlord pays. In any event he is responsible for plumbing and drainage so the tenant shouldn't pay for it. The landlord is paying the letting agent to manage his property and IMO the letting agent hasn't done his job properly. If it was his own house I'm sure it would be fixed by now.
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Any news Tc? Being a Bank Holiday and all.
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Hiya.thank you CLKD and sheila. it is fixed. Council guy did it this aft in 5 mins flat. He couldnt believe I'd had a drain engineer here who couldnt do it. It was simple blocked pipe. That drain guy was here 2 hours and then said all the panelling would have yo be "ripped out" the copper piping cut . I'm surprised he didnt arrive on the back of a horse with a cowboy hat and spurs on!!!🤠
The agency were prepared to leave me all weekend and tried to put it down to soil stack so they did t have to deal with it. . I hope the council charge them. My contract says landlord responsible unless Tennant is proved to have put stuff down toilet or sink which they shouldnt. I dont but dont know,what previous Tennant did.
Anyway I've just finished a marathon decontamination. Thanks for all your support and advice ladies. Xx
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Hooray, result.
:ola: :ola:
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Thanks shady xxx
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PHEW!
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Now breathe TC. 😉
I thought for a minute I was gonna have to put my wet suite on, and fish you out your bath! 🤢. 🤿🎣. 🤣😂🤣😂
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😃🚣♀️x
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Yep. Will it be the bright blue or the teal one though .........
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The bright blue one, brings out my complexion. 🤣😂
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With yellow flippers then?
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I know you are now allowed to go and have a socially distanced meeting outdoor with one other person but is there a time limit?
Dd has just started this week going out to meet her friend. She's 21 so not a kid, technically, and tells me she's abiding by the rules but she is staying out for hours and it seems to be getting longer each time. We have a very strained relationship at the moment and I'm suspicious but don't want to accuse her and make things worse.
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I don't believe there's a time limit as long as she's outside and socially distancing.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do
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She's an adult. You all need space. It is now up to young adults to realise how dangerous our situation continues to be. Even if death reports are less in England, they are still level in Scotland and there will be spikes. Roll on antibody testing for everyone I will feel a little safer - possibly :-\
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My friend and her hubby are feeling poorly and tested positive, her mum passed away last night from covid x
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I hope they recover quickly Annie. Very sad times :'(
Taz x :hug:
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Thanks Taz x
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My friend and her hubby are feeling poorly and tested positive, her mum passed away last night from covid x
Sorry to hear this Annie :hug:
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I hope your friends are OK, so sorry about her mum.
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Sorry to hear this annie. It's so hard when we can't physically be there for our friends. I hope they recover quickly. Xxx
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That is heartbreaking Annie, hugs to you xx
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Hello ladies
Annie0710 - so sorry to hear your news. I hope your friend and her husband recover quickly.
Take care.
K.
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Were they in the same household? Its so awful hearing that people are still dying when we feel we ought to be through the worst. :hug:
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Anybody not happy about today's news? Still 377 deaths reported and the rate of new infections still high?
I'm very nervous about the new easing of restrictions as it seems like too many things together.
Schools, shops and being able to meet up to 6 people outside.
What's it all about? I'm scared. Why not just one thing at a time and see what happens? It seems to be rushed and we've gone this far so why risk it?
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They use the infection rate as the gauge, not the death rate, as there is a time lag.
Who knows if it's too fast or slow, to ease lock down. Seems like mostly guess work anyway.
Can't say I'm scared though, I just take each day as it comes.
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Many Education Authorities aren't opening schools as parents are keeping their children at home.
We don't know enough about this Virus but unless people go out and about ........ and there will be spikes as has been seen in Europe. By shutting down it stopped, almost, the NHS being overwhelmed, though I understand in recent days, that several Hospitals have been close to capacity or turning away all potential patients.
Bugga - BarBQues will start again >:(
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Hello again ladies.
I assume the easing of the Lockdown is more to do with economic and even political factors than medical ones. People are desperate to get back to work and earn money, the government wants to end the furlough scheme and patience is running out. Unfortunately the virus isn't singing to the same song sheet so I will continue to social distance.
Hopefully we will soon have a vaccine or other treatments but for now the only weapon in our armoury is social distancing and good hygiene.
Take care everyone.
K.
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I agree that easing lockdown is necessary but just take it in small steps and get the rates down a bit more before introducing the next thing. I think it has a lot to do with the economy though and is this 6 people thing anything to do with DC and that shambles? A diversion?
They could have started the schools then if no adverse effects then start with the other stuff. But I'm no scientist and it's just my feeling.
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Yes, I think it's a balance between health and the economy. Very difficult for any government to sort out. Sadly the message has been misunderstood if my elderly parents are anything to go by. They want to come and visit, and sit in the garden, but this would mean coming into the house to go to the loo. They live an hour away. Neither of them could cope all that time without using the facilities! I'm shielding, so absolutely no. They can't see what the problem is. Now I'm feeling really mean.
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Ju Ju - surely if they are healthy and your DH wipes everything that they touch if they need to come inside? You can distance if the weather is nice in your garden and wait until he has completed his cleansing? It will be easier if ever the anti-body test becomes available for us all.
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That's good jaypo. Have they been in touch during lockdown? Give him his own cleansers etc.? We don't have visitors 2 stay ......... no one even pops in for a cuppa 'cos usually we ain't here ::).
Annie - do your friends need to go to hospital or have they been advised to treat at home?
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It is difficult. I seem to have a good immune system, which could be due to teaching early years for years. I have had only 3 minor respiratory infections in the last 5 years, but 2 of which resulted in hospitalisation. This virus is vicious. I'm not prepared to take any chances. No immunity. If I get it, it should not be because I've been careless. (And to be honest, it's been rather a relief not to be traveling back and forth to my parents. We talk on the phone every day. And I source stuff they can't get, thanks to companies like amazon.) I'm glad there is no expectation for you to go back until July, Teresa. At least I don't work as I'm retired and have a pension, so don't have to worry about money.
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My bf is a dentist, and has decided to take retirement (he sold his practice last year, but stayed on as an associate). He has attended the seminars from the BDA about cross infection and covid, and it sounds as if its going to be a total nightmare to implement.
The BBC recently put up a "how risky is your occupation" and dental nurses and dentists came out as number 1 & 2 :o
The thing is most of the work done causes lots of aerosols, and so everything will potentially be contaminated. The measures they are putting in place sound impossible. I for one wont be going to the dentist unless its a life threatening emergency! Ad I'm glad ,my bf is not going back if I'm honest
Jeeper xx
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Ju Ju - I keep saying 'every cloud' as Mum's place remains in lock down ;)
We have a porta potty if we were to visit anyone ........ however.
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Oh do tell the Tooth Fairy ;-)
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So the total lockdown in Wales has been lifted, i can now travel 5 miles :'( another three weeks before any more change >:(
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what happens if you cross over into England? Is it like crossing into Mexico? They can't touch you, but you become a fugitive and can never return??
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I'm sorry two hoots, that was really flippant :(
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I wish they'd have a 5 mile rule in England too, at least that way there's less chance of people from high risk areas infecting clean areas.
Dentists can wear PPE to reduce the risk to them, the patient is unprotected. I'm another one who won't be going unless I'm in extreme pain. I'm due a blood test at the doctors but am putting that off too
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I'm sorry two hoots, that was really flippant :(
Not at all, its something that people who live on Wales/England border ask all the time and I dont blame them. If you live in Wales but work in England, which rules do you use, we should have done things at the same time.
If hairdressers in England open before here there will be riots and bad language in this house ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Sheila99
I recently had a blood test at my surgery and it was fine. There is now a different entrance to the practice and everything is tightly controlled. I decided to wear a mask and gloves but I don't think I needed to. A nurse took my temperature and asked if I was living with someone who was self isolating. The blood test was fine and the nurse wore PPE. My surgery are offering phone consultations as well but for those who need to visit in person everything seemed safe.
Hope this helps and take care.
K.
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The Welsh don't want the English to cross the Border. Whether that's to do with C-19 ...... :whist: or historic.
Full PPE for dentists is extremely difficult to work in anyway. I had a long chat with our Chap recently and he hates the restrictions of wearing it.
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I had a call from my dentist today to say that they will be opening from 8th June and did I want to re arrange my check up for the end of June? Well no thanks.
I?ll wait till things calm down or I have a problem. Don't see the point in risking her or myself.
This nice weather is lovely but is anyone else hoping for rotten weather so everyone stays indoors. Still very concerned that this easing of lockdown is too much too soon.
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Well we would like some rain for the garden, that's for sure. People need to get out and about though, and being outside is very low risk.
It is our wedding anniversary today so we had a little trip out. First to the garden centre and then to a Wildlife Trust reserve at Sevenoaks. Took a picnic and had a lovely time.
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Well done on your celebratory trip !
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:thankyou:
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Yes Blot I know what you mean about the weather, it's lovely but people are going mental. Loads of people using the area I live in, a rave in the woods last Sunday with loads of litter, vandalism at the cricket and rugby club. Hoards of cyclist riding too fast on the canal path expecting you to jump out of the way.
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Happy Anniversary, Shadyglade!
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I was grilled by my Mum this evening as to what shielding was, why I was shielding, who told me why I had to shield. Grrr! I suppose it's partly my fault for 'shielding ? my parents from how ill I was each time I had to go into hospital. Honestly, you would think I was just being awkward. I've sent my Dad the appropriate links, so he can read about it and then explain to her. Sorry, just having a rant or maybe a temper tantrum! >:(
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Happy Anniversary, Shadyglade!
Thank you. :)
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Well we would like some rain for the garden, that's for sure. People need to get out and about though, and being outside is very low risk.
It is our wedding anniversary today so we had a little trip out. First to the garden centre and then to a Wildlife Trust reserve at Sevenoaks. Took a picnic and had a lovely time.
Happy Anniversary! :)
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I was grilled by my Mum this evening as to what shielding was, why I was shielding, who told me why I had to shield. Grrr! I suppose it's partly my fault for 'shielding ? my parents from how ill I was each time I had to go into hospital. Honestly, you would think I was just being awkward. I've sent my Dad the appropriate links, so he can read about it and then explain to her. Sorry, just having a rant or maybe a temper tantrum! >:(
Rant away :)
I think quite a few people struggle with the concept of shielding. Hopefully now you've explained, your parents will understand and appreciate how well you've managed being unwell up until now.
it's not like you've chosen this for yourself - :foryou:
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I'm not sure Mum will understand! Dad will though. Her hearing aids need sorting out, judging by the squeaks they make and her ears are blocked with wax, so talking to her on the phone is hard work. I think a lot of things bypass her. But that doesn't excuse the way she talks to me sometimes.
I think this shielding thing will have to go on for months unfortunately. Silver lining - I am being shielded from mum! ;)
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I wonder if you could get signed off by your doctor. That way you can claim some benefits, which would make life easier.
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Ju Ju - my Mum keeps moaning about "Why are the Girls staying overnight, I don't agree with that, why don't they go home?" It's part of her fixation. When I suggested that she asks the Staff why "They won't tell ME Dear, they don't tell ME anything". Then she tells me that she reads the papers that we arrange to be sent ::) ........
MayB your Mum doesn't want to understand ?
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I just came across this article about how COVID-19 may be not just a respiratory illness but also a vascular one. Incredibly interesting! I thought I would share it.
https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2
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Thanks for sharing that Souris, really interesting and scarey. x
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Thanks for sharing that Souris, really interesting and scarey. x
In a way it's scary, but in another way I found it hopeful, because the more they understand it, the better the chance they can figure out how to fight it.
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Found this on the Reuters website. It's not definitive of course but could be signs of hope.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUKKBN2370OP
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Thanks, interesting. It would make evolutionary sense for the virus to mutate to a less virulent form. However, we'll see....
JP x
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Thanks shady and souris x
I've got to get something off my chest ladies.
"Safe" for those who were sheilding To go outside?
It's not safe. It could be but it isnt. These govt advisors need to come out of their ivory towers and see what is happening in the real world particularly in some urban areas like mine. Distancing has disappeared.
The self entitled selfish ppl are making it impossible for others to be safe. Distancing has all but been abandoned by my local shopping parade and supermarkets. The shops have lost control. And given up.
Mum and dad have had to stop going to their local park. Because they cant keep themselves safe due to the behaviour of others. Everyone in their retirement flats is more scared to go out than ever and it's all purely because of the actions of other people.
The little cafe in park has opened. Distancing while queuing and serving from a hatch. It would be a simple small pleasure and bit of normality to have an ice cream in the park which everyone should be able to enjoy if they choose. But instead of getting their takeaway refreshments and moving away, ppl are sitting and congregating all around the area as though everything is normal.and making it impossible for others to get to the serving hatch without going through a sea of ppl.and taking risks.
. It's just one example of many where those who dont care about getting covid or spreading it are turning this and other areas into no go zones for others. The lack of inclusion is palpable. It feels truly horrible.
What kind of a society is that. Where only the worst kind of people who dont give a shit about anyone else get to enjoy any freedom whilst by their very behaviour making it so others are excluded and dont get to enjoy the same freedoms. ?
Surely freedom is worthless if only some have it at the expense of others. Bit dramatic of me? Maybe so. but I see a section of the public taking over these public facilities, imposing their will at times aggressively so and making it so that only they and others who think like them and share their attitude are able to use them. and when that has happened historically it has never ended well has it? .
:'(
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It's easy to forget, I did last week. :-\
But the Council will have allowed cafes etc. to open under Strict Guidelines. Which should be printed close to the food outlet and it's up to the seller to enforce these Rules.
Maybe ring the appropriate Council and ask or the local Police to go have a word? It is safe outside, it's people coughing, spluttering and sneezing one needs to be aware of. I find it easier to keep out of the way of strangers than people locally .
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DH met a neighbour this morning, who he had to tell to keep 2 metres away, because I'm shielding. He shouldn't have to qualify why. I always said it would be less safe once lockdown starts to be lifted. I shall carry on as I have, with great caution.
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I think we need to carry an old fashioned builder's ruler ;-) ........ would probably 'get done' for carrying an offensive weapon ::).
How much chance of catching the Virus now? SAGE advise caution. But allowing people 'out'? One half doesn't know what the other half might be doing??
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I agree
I somehow feel like I am regarded as some sort of freak for following the guidelines. As I said earier, my younger sister casually mentioned that her eldest son goes over and stays with his girlfriend then comes back home at will. My middle sisters offspring seem yo do the same. My daughters and I have followed all the rules, not seeing our boyfriends, not going out unecessarily, and not meeting up with the eldest, who lives in another city. Its been really hard. (I did see my eldest a couple of weeks ago for a walk on the downs when the restrictions were eased, but we followed all the rules).
When I mention to any of my siblings or Mum about following the guidelines, they react like I am some sort of paranoid over-reactor.
I think a lot of people have given up on it :-(
Jeepers xx
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Hello ladies.
So far where I live most people are still observing social distancing. The only ones to ignore it seem to be the young and the very old.
I think the government has tied itself in knots with it's advice which hasn't helped.
I am going to social distance the best I can until I feel it is safe to do otherwise. I also plan to listen to the advice of scientists rather that politicians who are adding to the confusion.
Take care everyone.
K.
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Yes. Lack of clarity is a politicians tool to avoid responsibilty or back up their "advice" in any tangeiable way.
The commandeering of public spaces by some groups of ppl to the exclusion of others shouldnt be allowed to happen. The govt cant or wont stop it. At least they havent yet. So I dont see what jurisdiction the police have. Isnt it more of a moral issue at present?
The type of ppl who have this mindset are not doing it because they forget. Anyone can forget, we are all human. That isnt what is happening here. It's an Imposition of will to the detriment of others.
Sorry but they make me so angry sitting around enjoying our outdoor spaces while stopping others doing the same because they could distance but chose not to and dont care who this hurts. . They are among the worst aspect of our society and when I go out now is that all I'm going to see because they've scared everyone else off. ? >:(
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What's ppi??
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So Jeepers stop sharing? Does anyone really need to know? Especially family ::)
ppi - taxation? - it actually reads ppl - = people ;-)
The Police have powers to move people on ........ have had since the lockdown began. State of Emergency Laws were implemented quite early on. People aren't deliberately 'stopping' others ....... there are other times of day too.
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Still don't get it but never mind.
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:-\ what don't you get ? :-\
"some groups of people [ppl] " ......... clear as mud.
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Ah, so it's text speak for people.
I don't do text speak, I have enough trouble with the ordinary kind.
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So your question was .......... :D
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Thanks clkd. Shady. :) sorry it was me being lazy . Think I need some fresh air ::)
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So Jeepers stop sharing? Does anyone really need to know? Especially family ::)
ppi - taxation? - it actually reads ppl - = people ;-)
The Police have powers to move people on ........ have had since the lockdown began. State of Emergency Laws were implemented quite early on. People aren't deliberately 'stopping' others ....... there are other times of day too.
Its not that simple CLKD... like when my younger sister wants to come and stay at my house, and I have to say no. Or my Mum wants to come in the car with my youngest and me to visit my eldest.... you know the sort of thing... just so awkward to have to keep saying no, we are not allowed to do that.
I don't comment about them though, no point
Jeepers xx
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But they are stopping others CLKD. That's just my point.. Why should a bunch of people with no social conscience dictate to the rest of us what time we can go to the park? Or make it unsafe to go at all.
Whats infuriating me is this isnt an underground train were talking about. It's a park where distancing between strangers is possible. No one is being asked to give up or sacrifice anything big or to do anything difficult, just simply to respect other people so we can all enjoy the public spaces. The "can't beat em join em" mentality has already kicked in in my area. Those of us who want to see everyone in society able to use these spaces and prepared to do what's necessary for this to happen are outnumbered now and wasting our breaths.
Xx
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I agree TC
It's just terrible that so many people are making it so difficult for those that are following the rules, for the benefit of all.
I list my cool in Sainsbury's last week, after watching a man pick up every piece of broccoli, inspect it, then reject it.
I said "excuse me you should not be doing that. Other people will be buying those and you've touched all of them"
To which he replied "but some of them have blemishes on the stalks"
Well, I just was so cross. I said " I want to buy one of those for my 83 year old mother. What you are saying is that your need to have a blemish free stock of broccoli is more important than the health of everybody else?? "
I was so cross. I rarely do confrontation , but just couldn't contain myself any longer
I ended up getting the organic for my mum, as it was wrapped.
Jeepers. Xx
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Jeepers my son in law does all my shopping and he gets veg pre packed for me.I plunge every bit of shopping in hot soapy water. People can be so inconsiderate.
Yes we wash/spray as much of our home delivery shopping as we can too. Fruit and veg should always be washed anyway. Any non perishables are put into the garage for a few days and we're not even shielding. I'm paranoid I think! The important thing is to always wash your hands as often as possible so even if you do touch an infected item you won't pass it on. I dream about disinfecting door handles and light switches ;D
Taz x
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Hi Teresa
I do try to get packaged , but it's not always available. I wipe everything down, for my mum as well as myself.
I know what you mean taz, I get up extra early every day and wipe all the doors, cupboard handles, chair backs, light switches, kettle p, toaster, microwave! Tv buttons etc... i have a system now, so I don't miss anything!
I should think my mum washes her veg before she cooks, but I still worry about her,
Jeepers xx
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The virus won't survive cooking Jeepers.
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Jeeps. I dont blame you at all. I've given up. I've been laughed at, told to "chill out love" and sworn at. . If it's an accident when someone gets too close or forgets and you cant move from them and you say "excuse me you're too close" they say "sorry". And move away. Not threaten to "punch you in the effing mouth". Like a woman did to me in sainsburys 2 weeks ago. 😮 it's just not worth the aggro and you cant reason with the unreasonable.
Most people I know who have been shielding are not going to take the risk and as much as it angers me and ive been venting my spleen today I will have to accept it too. That I will have no choice but avoid places where I cant keep myself safe as much as i possibly can.and leave those to the covidiots. It's all any of us can do. Stay safe ladies.
. Xx
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We shouldn't have to justify ourselves. "Which bit of 'no' don't you get? End of."
Tc - if the Park is large, what's the problem :-\. We don't all have to go out at the same time and people are not deliberately stopping others ........ I've walked through parks all the way through lockdown during my hourly allowed exercise, we wave and keep a distance. This week one needs to accept that it's busy and go elsewhere - at least we have choice about being out and about a little longer each day.
I'm still deciding which household I would like to meet up with ....... ::)
Washing greens in soapy water, well that's any goodness gone then ::). Cold salted water would be far better and how do you stop it going off ? any moisture leaves it open to other germs.
Buying frozen of course is equally as good as fresh as it is treated really fast so that any vitamins remain. Or tinned foods .......... both can be stored for years.
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Rant away jaypo. I've been doing it all day :) sorry ladies. Good job I wasnt with you in tesco, I get threatened with a punch in the gob in the canned goods aisle!!! Mind you I didnt tell you the end of that which was I was so utterly angry I said "come on then try it". Not proud of it. She didnt. Good job. I reckon a bunch of fives in the kisser might spread germs.
Oh Teresa. Sorry you've got all that noise to contend with. Especially at 4.am. it's the last thing you need.
I too was wondering how vedge tastes after being washed in soapy water :) 🥕🥦🌶🥕🥦
Does freezing food kill the virus from the food and the packaging anyone know?
Xxx
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Buying already frozen veg would negotiate that worry?
I don't think anyone actually knows how long and what this virus clings to. I spoke to 3 people last week, all in the front line of research related to C-19 and none were certain. So haven't written to Mum for weeks ;-).
Lots of sirens ? well that would be normal until lockdown and we probably wouldn't notice ::) and of course the media are making a lot of it. It's planes in t he sky that I'm starting to notice >:(
Tc - I'm on your side with that 1. Of course CCTV is in most stores ;-) mayB U and I should approach the manager ? I'm off to Watirose with Dh again this week :whist: shopping together. Apart.
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CLKD :)
more planes yes. But police helicopters every weekend for weeks have stopped this weekend.
Shopping together apart. You need walkie talkies. That would be such fun. . I want to go shopping with someone apart with walkie talkies now.just to see people's reaction. I realy want to. Imagine it.
"I've identified the peas. papa echo alpha Sierra .over"
"roger that. I'm approaching deli. Stand by"
"Received"
"all units It's a go go go on the humous."
"12 rolls of andrex in custody over and out"
😂😂😂
Xx
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Ooh, me, me, can I come too???
I feel better now at losing my cool over brocolli man ;D
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I'm Menopausal and I know how to use it :ola: :bouncing:
Walkie talkies - we have 2 somewhere ;D
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Yes. Ladies. Meno warriors hit the shops
:parti: :jiggy: :spin:
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:rofl:
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Disappointed. Calm in Waitrose. Gestapo obviously off duty today. We shopped. Together. Apart and I was done long B4 Himself got into the store. Sense of anticlimax ;D
Some are wearing masks others not bothering, we continue to put 1 use gloves on which have to go into the Council landfill bin >:(. I would wash them but DH says 'no' ::)
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I knew all those body combat classes would come in useful one day 🥊🤼
;D ;D
Jeepers xx
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Hello again ladies.
I think all we can do is look after ourselves during this pandemic. Selfish and inconsiderate people will always be a problem and on their own heads be it.
Clkd - Waitrose still asks that we shop alone if possible which makes you a rule breaker!
Take care ladies.
K.
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That doesn't work though. We R alone. 1 list, 1 trolley - DH does his shopping I do ours - what if I were to be shopping for a neighbour or relative? Can't see the difference. It's the same space in the queue taken up? We don't touch each other, anyone else, wear gloves and buy what is on the list.
A lady today was with her elderly Mum - an independent person who I've known for over 30 years who doesn't drive - what's her daughter to do: her own shopping which she takes home B4 picking up her Mum .........
They didn't meet in the aisle at all even went to a different check-out and of course, all the check out staff know us anywhere from years of shopping there ......... but they weren't accosted by the Manager: if it's the only Rule that I break in my Lifetime I'll have done OK ;)
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Hello again ladies.
The aim is to reduce the number of people going into the store. Shopping alone or for others means fewer bodies in the shop making it safer for everyone.
Obviously there are exceptions, parents that have to take children with them for example but one shopper per household is the ideal.
Take care.
K.
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I do my mum's shopping for her when I do mine. She gives me a list, and I bring it over. ..she insists I get a separate till receipt too, hahaha
It's such a shame as I know she loves chatting to everyone and anyone, but fair play she has been very philosophical about the whole situation.
Jeepers xx
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Are the UK numbers dropping yet :-\
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I know what you mean jaypo... At one point I was doing three lots of shopping, me, my mum and my nephew, it was so so stressful.
My mum , like lots of elderly people, eats like a bird, so her few bits are easier.
Jeepers xx
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I do shopping for my neighbours and it's great fun using the zapper things in Sainsbury's :o. I really have to concentrate on who's shopping relates to which zapper and shopping bag lol.
Today's going to be fun queuing in the rain to get in.
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Are the UK numbers dropping yet :-\
Which numbers? Confirmed cases? Daily deaths? Hospitalisations? Intensive care cases? Weekly deaths? The numbers of all sorts of different measures are available online and are updated and reported daily (at the daily briefing) and the ONS data are reported weekly.
In general numbers of deaths however you measure them do seem to be declining but very slowly. The number of positive confirmed cases again declining slowly ie not fast enough. Also they are not a very good indication of infection rate since there are different numbers of tests being carried out and in any case only reflect a fraction of the actual numbers infected.
I think we need more information about where people are being infected ie what sectors and geographical location so that people have a bit more of an idea.....
However ONS report that in the period up to 22 May there have been 62K excess deaths ( ie excess over the average for the last 5 years for the same time period), which is way more both than the confirmed number of hospitals + Care home deaths where positive tests carried out, and more than the total of these + where conid is mentioned on the death cert ie suspected of contributing to the death.
62,000 is a shocking number. Govt should be ashamed.
Hurdity x
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Hiya,ladies. This is an interesting read
https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52840763?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15911870161680&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
It speaks to what we have discussed here. That testing only those with symptoms isnt good enough. And that healthcare professionals should be re tested on a regular basis.
X
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We've all been offered the antibody test in the hospital where I work. Will be interesting to find out how many of us have actually had it without symptoms because out of a team of 20 only one has had it (confirmed by test) and there is very little social distancing going on.
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It will be interesting blot x
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I don't suppose we'll ever know but I'd like to know more about the excess deaths. Many will be from CV but how many are from people who chose not to seek treatment and how many because they didn't get an appointment. Deaths from untreated cancer etc are probably still to come. The only bright spot I can think of is that we had a particularly mild winter with no major killer diseases so some might be people who would already have died in a 'normal' winter.
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Has anyone heard anything about routine mammogram screening.? My 3 years are up and I've heard nothing.
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Hello ladies.
Today's Guardian has the stats from the sciencist who was sacked for meeting with his married lover during lockdown. Perhaps he has an axe to grind but his data is showing a very worrying trend. He has also confirmed the care homes are responsible for spreading the virus in their communities.
The mathmetician Hannah Fry said that looking at the government's daily graphs made her eyes bleed! I'm suspicious of their data but if I was as clever as her I'd know why lol.
Take care everyone.
K.
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I heard something that I didn't know about nursing homes, the same staff work in several private run homes, so one person with the virus could have taken it into many. I assumed you worked in one home but wondered why so many nursing homes had infections.
In my area the majority of deaths are in nursing homes but the number of extra deaths reported is very low. I dont know anyone who has had it apart from the family members who were quite ill in December and January.
Like Blot I hope everyone can get the anti body test in the future if its accurate.
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Yes, that's true TH. A lot of people work at different care homes, if they?re not contracted for 40 hours. mostly to make their hours up. So therefore, the virus got spread around easily, especially agency workers, who get sent to several different locations every week.
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My aunt had to get in touch with the heart failure unit my uncle is under as he is unwell.(both sheilding). A nurse came out... She told my aunt she is visiting mostly elderly all day. And has to drive home, remove all clothing and shower between each home she visits. .
X
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My sister heads up a private care home with NHS clients. No PPE from the NHS. Most of the Staff - 15 of them - have other jobs in the care sector due to not being paid enough .......... she is temperature testing her Staff 3 times a day and clients morning and evening.
Also: how many Death Certificates will skew the death numbers - thanks Hurdity - because C-19 has been added when the patient hasn't had it at all. We will never know. In some cases the GP signing the death cert hadn't even known/seen the patient ........ in Scotland unexplained deaths are being investigated, sometimes by the Police.
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Police are investigating a care home that was ordered to close following a major coronavirus outbreak.
Fifteen residents of Temple Court in Kettering, Northamptonshire have died with Covid-19 or suspected Covid-19.
The Care Quality Commission (CQC), which regulates care homes, said it had serious concerns and residents were moved out of the home last month. [would love to read that report, why didn't they do something about it then?]
A spokesperson for Temple Court said the home would "co-operate fully" with enquiries.
The findings of a CQC inspection carried out in the week residents were moved out are to be released soon, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.
Staff sickness
Northamptonshire County Council is also carrying out an investigation under section 42 of the Care Act, which happens when there are allegations of abuse or neglect.
In a statement, Northamptonshire Police said it was "aware of the recent issues relating to Temple Court Care Home in Kettering".
The force added: "We are working with the Safeguarding Adults Team at Northamptonshire County Council to investigate these further."
A spokesperson for Temple Court, run by the Minster Care Group, said the home had been "left in an extremely challenging position after a sudden influx of residents from the NHS - some of whom had very complex needs - and a subsequent outbreak of Covid-19".
The home added that a "large number of staff" were absent because of the virus and the home was "left disproportionately reliant on the use of agency staff".
[Apparently the NHS pre-booked over 1,500 care home beds across the UK ....... giving Managers little chance of saying 'no'. This was well B4 the care system was completely aware of the possible consequences of taking in patients from Hospitals :'( ]
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We've been through this several times before because you have made the same point and I put links about death certificates. To repeat myself and really I'm not going to look for the links again, it is a very complex process writing a death cert from what I read, and there are death certs where CV19 was the main cause and those where it is mentioned on the death cert as contributing to the death or hastened it. All sort of different data are available and analysed ie hospital deaths from confirmed CV19, care home deaths with confirmed CV19, care home or other deaths where CV19 is mentioned on death cert. Analysed reguarly by ONS. The daily data we are given are those confimed in hospitals and the community including care homes, that have tested positive for CV19. The weekly data analyse all of it (the different measures) as far as I can gather.
The main point I was making which are the excess deaths. Not where CV19 has been added without a confirmed positive test ( and this surely won't be added without a very good reason eg others in the home who have had it etc).
To repeat, the most important figure (and this is recognised by the authorities) is the figure for excess deaths from all-causes over the 5 years average for the same time period. The graphs of these have been shown and wdiely reported and you can see the huge peak coinciding with the UK CV19 epidemic. The figures reported weekly (last Tuesday was the latest) gives figures up to week-ending 22nd May and showed 62K excess deaths. I said all this in my previous post but you've missed the point. These are closer to the true figure of deaths from CV19 and including those where deaths from other causes indirectly led to death eg heart attacks where emergency help was not sought quickly enough. In my view there are also likely to be more having died from CV19 and not mentioned on death cert than less. At the height of the epidemic all services were stretched, so I can imagine it would be under rather than over-reported though I have no evidence of that!
Hurdity x
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The only way we will get a clearer picture is when we can compare the death rate from 2020 to previous years. If other countries do the same then it will be easier to compare because every country has its own way of reporting. Its going to be a long time until these figures are known but it?ll be a true record of how the UK has been hit, until then .....
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Even if others in hospital, care or nursing homes have tested positive, it is not a reason for a GP who has never seen the patient to sign C-19 as a cause of death. Even if a person dies in a similar way to others who tested positive, it doesn't mean that they were. Which is why Northants Police are now investigating why so many residents died in Kettering.
It is more likely that NHS Staff will recognise C-19 symptoms and there will be a pattern to the disease, recovery or death from the Virus. But care home staff will be unlikely to have seen such a death rate and one should never assume that all are caused by 'what's going round'.
It seems to be usual for Scotland to investigate unexplained deaths even during this upheaval.
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The daily death figures are bad again today. I just think we are easing lockdown too quickly. Why did they not wait another few weeks? Please someone tell me it's not as bad as it seems ☹️
And now all staff have to wear masks in hospital. After being told we couldn't wear them and it wasn't necessary. Utter fiasco.
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It really is difficult to know why the Government keeps altering it's mind. There doesn't seem to be any basis to anything any more ....
Masks will be provided to patients after temperature has been taken ....... to protect others of course.
How will one be able to reassure a train Guard that one has a genuine reason not to wear a mask :-\.
I think it's getting beyond hindsight now. Decision seem to be made off the top of someone's head .......
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The only way we will get a clearer picture is when we can compare the death rate from 2020 to previous years. If other countries do the same then it will be easier to compare because every country has its own way of reporting. Its going to be a long time until these figures are known but it?ll be a true record of how the UK has been hit, until then .....
This is what I was referring to in my post. Every week the ONS anlyses these data and compares the total deaths in 2020 to the 5 year average. I haven't read this article but the graph at the beginning shows excess deaths for a number of European countries compared with 2018-2019 (just had a quick look).
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/understanding-excess-mortality-international-comparisons
Here is one of the ONS reports:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending22may2020
Scroll down to number 3 to look at one of the graphs showing execss deaths.
Hurdity x
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The excess deaths for the Hong Kong flu pandemic was 80,000, in the UK. We are only halfway to that at the moment.
Food for thought.
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To Be [masked]
Or not to B ...............
I wonder if WHO has shares in various products that initially weren't recommended :-\
I don't do graphs nor do I read links that others haven't read !
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To Be [masked]
Or not to B ...............
I wonder if WHO has shares in various products that initially weren't recommended :-\
I don't do graphs nor do I read links that others haven't read !
WHO is part of the United Nations. I shouldn't think they have shares in anything.
It's a shame you don't look at links as these ones are particularly informative.
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Interesting shadyglade
the increase in deaths seems to correlate almost exactly to Covid registered deaths. I also wonder how many of the pneumonia deaths were in fact Covid related. Also, I think we have to consider how many deaths could be attributed to people not getting medical help sooner, as they were worried about Covid. There seems to be more people delaying getting checked out for cancer, who are now very sick and people having heart attacks etc and not seeking help.
we may never know the real figure.
masks should be mandatory in all public spaces, although I read a meme on Facebook that said ?Requiring face masks three months into a pandemic is like requiring condoms at the baby shower?
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Agreed Donnadoobie -
Shadyglade - anyone who posts links that they haven't read could be posting any rubbish that appears on the internet. One has to remember to know who funds these reports. >yawn< I've been around too long and typed many research reports to even begin to believe what is produced on the internet.
Cynical? Moi ;D
WHO keep changing their minds. But are not clear on why. Off to read the Sat papers.
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Indeed Teresa
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I have been doing the Zoe Covid Symptom study and just signed up the other day for their study in getting an online symptom checker.
I had an email today asking me to go for a covid test today, as I mentioned a bad throat for two days in a row. my husband gets one too as he is also in the study.
feel a bit scared.
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Well its back to work and school for me Monday, been working from home through lockdown. Been reading all the risk assessments and feeling very, very anxious. Why are we putting the children through this for just a few weeks? The littlte ones will be afraid to move in case they accidentally bump into someone and get into trouble (they wouldn't really). We have to dress up into PPE with face sheilds before dealing with a child who has fallen and injured before touching them, how scary is that! The Nursery children dont understand self distance anyway and all their soft toys, cushions etc. gone. If they are upset we cant even hold their hand.
We have to clean every hour, good idea.
All children and staff have to wash their clothes everyday and shower as soon as they get home.
I understand the need for Year 6 to go back to help with transition to secondary school and to see their friends, also they will understand the new rules and cope better with the changes. I dont understand why the little ones need to do this and many of the parents are still not sending them anyway.
Hopefully I'm just being too anxious and it'll be fine.🤞
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I have been doing the Zoe Covid Symptom study and just signed up the other day for their study in getting an online symptom checker.
I had an email today asking me to go for a covid test today, as I mentioned a bad throat for two days in a row. my husband gets one too as he is also in the study.
feel a bit scared.
I am also on this study but haven't declared any symptoms to them yet. Where does it tell you to go for the test? Is it close to home ? I don't drive so couldn't get to one of the drive by centres.
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it is about a 15 minute drive. don't think it is anything, I have had throat problems for months.
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Watching the protests around the country Im starting to think why did we bother with lockdown >:(
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Watching the protests around the country Im starting to think why did we bother with lockdown >:(
Yes. No way would I have gone to a march now however strongly I might feel about the issues.
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I understand why they are protesting but this was so unwise in the middle of a pandemic
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Some small towns in the UK painted social distancing markers which seemed to work in a quiet, peaceful protest.
I would be there if it wasn't for lockdown, but I don't think it will do much good as people have short memories other than those who undergo bullying daily. :'(
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Watching the protests around the country Im starting to think why did we bother with lockdown >:(
Did anyone watch Andrew Marr show today, just caught the interview with a scientist, I think, saying it will all end with having herd immunity like all previous pandemics unless we have a vaccine. The lockdown was to protect the NHS.
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The irony of it. Organise a protest in support of Black Lives Matter in the middle of a pandemic... where some people will be be infectious... and spread it to others... so more lives will be lost. Seems to me you lose the moral high ground when you put your desire to make a political statement above the lives of those you're supposedly helping. I wonder how many will die as a result? DDs friend travelled to it by train from Manchester, no doubt some came from other areas. >:(
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The coverage of when things got nasty and the objects being thrown at police horses seems to have gone un-noticed by the BBC news, i was hoping to hear how the police woman was after being thrown off her horse after it bolted and ran into a lamp post >:(
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However: this is the opportunity of finding out how C-19 is spread. Over the next 3-4 weeks hopefully the NHS will follow up anyone who presents with symptoms so that a graph of crowded places = risk can be devised. Until we get antibody testing we simply don't know. This does rely however on how honest patients will be.
I worried about the Police horse: many are Clyesdales so not to be messed with! I read about it on BBC news feed earlier: 9.30 a.m. : when I opened up the lap top. Must have been something bad for a Police horse to scare, they are HUGE! I have seen them being reverted into crowds which really sorts out the boys from the men!
We knew that the lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. Because the NHS has been working to a shoe string for years++. Not enough staff, not enough beds, not enough equipment ........ and the UK Government didn't hoard PPS as most European countries did. Now that the NHS is open for business it should be getting back to regular appt. systems etc..
All Hospitals should build a separate A&E Dept - 1 area for real emergencies delivered by Ambulance; the other for drunks etc.; as sure as eggs are eggs, people will revert to 'normal'.
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I have been doing the Zoe Covid Symptom study and just signed up the other day for their study in getting an online symptom checker.
I had an email today asking me to go for a covid test today, as I mentioned a bad throat for two days in a row. my husband gets one too as he is also in the study.
feel a bit scared.
Hey Donna no need to be scared. I'm on this and I've done one too!
I had a headache (migraine) the other day and also had a sore throat so they flagged it up for me to have a test. I declared it because I thought it's pointless saying you feel physically normal when you don't so I thought I would see what happened if i said what I was actually feeling that day.
The first thing the app said was it doesn't mean they think you have Covid. That is the important thing. They are trying to research the effectiveness of determining whether they can predict if people have covid from electronic reporting of symptoms. Therefore they expect there to be negative results. I expect it might help with cases where people have very mild symptoms but still have the virus. If there isn't a good match then they won't use elcetronic surveillance as a way of saying?
You don't have to go for a test you can get one delivered at home ( I live in the country so it means I wouldn't have to drive 20 miles or wherever it was). You just need to follow the instructions and sign up for the home test soon after the time they say otherwise they go quickly. I did mine on Fri eve and they collected it yesterday - someone in mask and gloves came to the door! I also doubt mine was a very good sample because as expected I gagged when trying to do the throat swab and you're supposed to rub your tonsils with it for 10 secs! :o
It's all reported on your phone so very easy (apart from swab down throat!).
Hurdity x
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All done
I was expecting to gag but didn't, found the nose one worse actually.
now wait and see, I am expecting it to be OK
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I have been doing the Zoe Covid Symptom study and just signed up the other day for their study in getting an online symptom checker.
I had an email today asking me to go for a covid test today, as I mentioned a bad throat for two days in a row. my husband gets one too as he is also in the study.
feel a bit scared.
Hey Donna no need to be scared. I'm on this and I've done one too!
I had a headache (migraine) the other day and also had a sore throat so they flagged it up for me to have a test. I declared it because I thought it's pointless saying you feel physically normal when you don't so I thought I would see what happened if i said what I was actually feeling that day.
The first thing the app said was it doesn't mean they think you have Covid. That is the important thing. They are trying to research the effectiveness of determining whether they can predict if people have covid from electronic reporting of symptoms. Therefore they expect there to be negative results. I expect it might help with cases where people have very mild symptoms but still have the virus. If there isn't a good match then they won't use elcetronic surveillance as a way of saying?
You don't have to go for a test you can get one delivered at home ( I live in the country so it means I wouldn't have to drive 20 miles or wherever it was). You just need to follow the instructions and sign up for the home test soon after the time they say otherwise they go quickly. I did mine on Fri eve and they collected it yesterday - someone in mask and gloves came to the door! I also doubt mine was a very good sample because as expected I gagged when trying to do the throat swab and you're supposed to rub your tonsils with it for 10 secs! :o
It's all reported on your phone so very easy (apart from swab down throat!).
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity
That's helpful. I have held back from declaring an occasional mild symptom (which I didn't really suspect to be Covid but could possibly have been (such as muscle aches which I had yesterday or a mild throat irritation which is normal for me).
You say sign up for the home test 'soon after the time they say'. Do you mean that they give possible times and you need to select an early slot?
I suspect I would gag too. My first one was done by medical staff at a hospital (before minor surgery) and was uncomfortable but not as bad as I had expected. I think it would be harder to do it myself.
My lodger has had one done and collected by a courier so I saw how this is done. Fortunately his was clear. He didn't have symptoms but had been invited to take part by the NHS.
I was supposed to take part in a first group walk (local) today but pulled out this morning as a precaution after feeling off colour yesterday. However i later realised that I had been worrying too much and could have gone with them.
I did read online a comment by someone who said that his wife had received a letter to say that her Covid test was clear. However her sample hadn't even been collected by the courier so she doesn't know what happened there. Someone must be missing a result and chasing it up.
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Hi Katejo - no you don't select a slot.
Here is the e-mail I got asking me to book a test. I've just copied and pasted but some of the format will be lost:
"Thank you so much for using the COVID Symptom Study app and helping to fight the outbreak. ZOE is very excited to be able to offer you a chance to get tested for COVID-19.
You've recently reported feeling unwell with a particular combination of symptoms. We would like to offer you a test to discover if you have the virus right now. This does not necessarily mean you have COVID-19 as we are also inviting some people we believe do not have the virus.
This request comes from our work with the Department of Health and Social Care to give you access to a COVID-19 test. This testing process is run by the Department of Health, and no data will come to us until you choose to share it. For clarity, you may have been invited to participate in a clinical study run by King's College London, but this email and any test results you may enter are a separate project and will not be part of that study.
The Department of Health is therefore inviting you to have a PCR swab test to confirm whether you are currently positive or negative for the virus. This will let you know your status and help us develop an even better understanding of which symptoms are most related to COVID-19 infection. Please note, you do not need to be an essential worker to have received this e-mail.
Book your test
We have not shared your details with the Department of Health. If you would like to be tested, please book this as soon as possible as the test only works if you are actively infectious. Please keep logging your symptoms every day and make sure to enter the results of your test into the app once you get them. You can use this guide to aid the test booking process.
Thank you so much for your amazing contribution to science.
Tim Spector
on behalf of ZOE
Please read the following key information before booking a test:
? You will be asked to confirm you are an essential worker as part of the booking process. We have agreed with DHSC that you can access testing for the purposes of this research, so please select ?OK, I qualify? when you reach the relevant screen. Please note: this permission only applies to you as the study participant. You must not encourage members of your family or friends to access a test unless they have also been invited as a study participant or a symptomatic essential worker, and therefore already qualify.
? You will then be offered the choice between a home testing kit or booking a testing slot at one of our regional testing sites (RTS's).
? Home tests are delivered to your address. You then self-administer the swab (taking a sample from both your nose and throat) before returning the kit for analysis via a courier. Full instructions will be delivered along with the kit. Please note: capacity for these tests is released at the beginning of each day and demand is high. Therefore you may find that there are none available when you attempt to book. In this case, please select a slot at a suitable RTS, if possible.
? If you have trouble getting a home testing kit, please check the website soon after 0800 or 1700 as kits can book out within hours after each time slot when they are released.
? Regional Testing Sites are distributed across the UK, with more than 50 sites now available. You can book a slot at the site nearest to you (if capacity is available) or at another site with available capacity and within a regional driving distance. Please note: this opportunity is currently only available to app users within England and Northern Ireland. We are working to expand this to Scotland and Wales.
? Once you have confirmed your testing route you will be asked to confirm your profession. Please select ?Volunteers? from the drop-down menu.
? You will then see a summary screen with your name mobile number and profession listed. Please note: check that your phone number is correct as this is how you will receive further information, including your test results.
? Once you have submitted your application you will receive a text message with a link to either a) claim your home testing kit or b) book a slot at a regional testing site.
? Once you have completed your tests, results will be sent back to you by the Department of Health and Social Care. This will confirm whether you were positive or negative for COVID-19, or, in a minority of cases, whether it was not possible to confirm your result. Please note: you are then responsible for reporting these results in the COVID Symptom Study app. They will not be automatically shared by the test site."
When I first tried to book a home test it was in the eve and there were nobne available but when i tried again the next morning I got one. Sounds like there are just a certain number relased each day and when they're gone they're gone!
I would be interested also in the accuracy of home testing compared with attending a test centre and the percentage of tests that give the same result and I presume this will have been studied (ref my inability to do a long enough throat swab - a lthough it goes up the nose too which was easy!).
Hurdity x
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Shadyglade - anyone who posts links that they haven't read could be posting any rubbish that appears on the internet. One has to remember to know who funds these reports. >yawn< I've been around too long and typed many research reports to even begin to believe what is produced on the internet.
Cynical? Moi ;D
They could be but in my case not, as you well know. Yes there is a lot of rubbish on the internet but provided you know what you are looking at you can be discerning and actually provide information that helps others so they don't have to believe some of the garbage out there. Also believe it or not it is actually possible to post a helpful link without reading it, and checking whether it is reasonable or not, by glancing over the content, and the website itself. It's a pity you are so cynical because actually if you read some of the links you profess never to read then you will see there is a lot of really useful information out there.
Hurdity
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Hello ladies.
Hurdity - Thank you for all the information. It would be very helpful if you are can update us when you get your results and hopefully they will be negative.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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It must depend on the testing centre because I was able to choose my slot.
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Could be that there are fewer people requesting tests. Let's hope so.
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my test was negative!
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my test was negative!
:clapping:
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feel very relieved , especially as I have felt really tired today and had a headache, at least it's not Covid.
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:great:
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Great 👍 x
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Good one, DD. 👍🏼
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my test was negative!
Glad to hear this. You got your result quickly didn't you ?
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just over 24 hours Katejo. There test site was almost empty when we went, maybe another two cars.
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of course that is possible, but we just have to carry on being careful. I had a test because the Zoe Study suggested one, as I reported a sore throat, I never thought that is was anything.
there is no perfect solution I'm afraid
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The incubation period might be ? Is anyone sure?
See my threads in 'does anyone have coronavirus' ........ about schools closing within days of opening :-\
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Do they test you to see if you've already had it too?
Jeepers xx
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I don't think they have a reliable test for that yet.
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Crikey - the guy on the update can't answer a question!!! He seems to have an agenda.
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How much coronavirus transmission comes from people with no symptoms is still a "big unknown", a World Health Organization scientist has clarified.
Dr Maria Van Kerkhove said on Monday it was "very rare" for asymptomatic people to pass the disease on.
But she has now stressed this observation was based on a relatively small set of studies.
Evidence suggests people with symptoms are most infectious, but the disease can be passed on before they develop. ..........
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Neighbour's Mum is in a Nursing Home and they were all tested. Her and another lady tested positive but are asymptomatic.... don't know how long they've been like that can't get my head around this. They can only have caught it from staff but now might have spread to other staff but staff aren't self isolating?? I'm beginning to despair now.
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R the staff remaining in the care home. There doesn't seem to be any protocol!
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Just jules. The problem is I think that if everyone else tested negative that doesnt mean they havent had it at some point. But we don't know that without decent antibody testing and even then we arent far enough into this to know for sure what protection antibodies give and for how long.
CLKD mentioned the incubation period further back which I think is an interesting point.
From the BBC. The link below about a couple who returned to Singapore from China in January. The day of their return they went to church. Both felt well and had no symptoms. 2 days later they both fell ill and so did various members of the congregation. It was one of the very first cases there and the authorities were on to it quickly. From track and Trace they came to the conclusion that the couple were able to spread the virus 2 days before their symptoms. This couple didnt have tests until they became unwell and I think it would be interesting to know if they wouldve tested pos 2 days before symptoms. That's hard to do in most cases obvs as its retrospective. . The article also talks of asymptomatic spreaders. These things are what makes this virus so effective at spreading quickly and silently.
There is also the question of for how long a person stays contagious once infected and whether those who continue to test pos after several weeks are still able to pass it on. My family member tested positive when admitted to hospital with covid symptoms and 4 weeks later was still testing positive. Docs were unable to say with any certainty if at this point she was still contagious. They told us they just dont know for sure yet. And hers isnt an isolated case.
Btw She is 78 and diabetic and touch wood is recovering very well indeed. . She feels back to normal now 8 weeks later. They said they saw the "ground glass effect" in her lung scan but she didnt have significant breathing problems at any point . She has now been called back for a further lung scan. I expect they will learn from people like her. She was treated with hydroxychloroquine.
https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52840763?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15917774915332&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
Stay safe ladies xxxx
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Tc - :thankyou: so we are still on a learning curve.
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Absolutely CLKD. X
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::)
Maintaining distance is easy - I sit in our garden and rarely go shopping ;-)
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Easy for you clkd, not everyone is able to do that.
Both of my daughters have to go out to work, and distancing is impossible, especially for the eldest. My younger daughter works at the crown courts, and they try, but it's not really happening.
And then of course a the people who work in supermarkets, or have to take the tube, I really feel for them.
Jeepers xx
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Hello ladies.
Many people can't live in glorious isolation because they have important things to do.
The WHO recommends that everyone over sixty wear a medical mask in situations where social distancing cannot be managed. When more businesses open even stepping out of each other's way will be more difficult with crowded pavements and more cars on the road.
Take care everyone.
K.
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That's the sad side effect of a pandemic. Many have been able to take mortgage holidays which will help as well as deferring car MOTs and annual services. As well as not driving so won't be spending monies on fuel.
Why have WHO waiting this long? It doesn't work in reality: in Asia, including China, many wear masks due to smog ....... something we haven't had to contend with since the Clean Air Act. How many Chinese caught C-19 :-\.
I'm going to be 55 for a long while ;)
I've been important by staying at home as instructed.
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Hasty :thankyou:
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How much coronavirus transmission comes from people with no symptoms is still a "big unknown", a World Health Organization scientist has clarified.
Dr Maria Van Kerkhove said on Monday it was "very rare" for asymptomatic people to pass the disease on.
But she has now stressed this observation was based on a relatively small set of studies.
Evidence suggests people with symptoms are most infectious, but the disease can be passed on before they develop. ..........
Exactly my point and what my earlier link speaks to.
On the subject of recession , Let's face it. In any recession there will always be those who come out of the doo doo smelling of Roses. Same with any adverse situations. There will always be ppl who profit from it. I feel sorry for workers who have no choice but to go back but dont feel protected and I know many. It might not be a coincidence that the ones I know are on minimum wage.
My friends who are in management tech jobs are happily working from home and one said her company are not looking to bring ppl back to the office til next year. Not the case with my sis who works in a call centre. She is a key worker as its pharmaceutical but she has a daily battle to keep herself safe in the office. And from the shops I've been in today the staff are not protected. No masks no gloves. Too close to each other and customers while stacking shelves and manning self service checkouts. And that's major chains.
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I noted 3 weeks ago that our village shop doesn't have gloves and no masks or screens. They have been serving customers all year and thus far, touch wood ....... sanitiser on hand for the baskets etc..
Because the Care Sector doesn't pay staff enough in a single care home many carers flit from one to the next to the ...... and those 'on the road' visiting Clients have to change PPE and swab vehicle etc. between each one.
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I'm going back to work for two days a week on the 1st July for the last few weeks of term. I'll be working in a bubble with two keyworker children. My head has been really great at keeping me off the Hub rota so I know she wouldn't ask me unless it as absolutely necessary. I am a bit concerned, obviously, due to being over 65 but the actual "stay away from work" instruction doesn't kick in until aged 70. It will be good to see my school family though. I'm retiring at the end of term after 18 years in the same school. What a weird way to end my time as a TA/Emotional Support/Pastoral Care person.
Taz x
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Wow taz.18 years. In normal pre lockdown times you mustve constantly bumped into ex pupils where ever you went in your town . :)
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What a strange way to end your career at such a time Taz. I hope it goes well. I would have loved to have returned to teaching temporarily while social distancing is necessary, but it's out of the question as I'm shielding.
Just been talking to my 95 year old dad, who ventured to Sainsbury's during the early shopping hour for the vulnerable, as they were unable to get a delivery slot for several days and had run out of a few essentials. However, he had to queue for quite a long time outside behind much younger people, who were were not in that category. I told him him he should have gone straight to the front of the queue as nobody should or would have expected such an old man to wait, particularly with his bandaged head! But my quiet dad can't break a lifetime of not making a fuss. And he could have asked one of the neighbours to get what he needed. They are all keen to help. Poor man was exhausted. What do l do with him? !
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He probably didn't realise how tired standing would make him feel! Does he have a trolley thing with a chair ? If not, would he benefit from one next time?
That's where the Staff lack foresight by not noting the elderly in a queue but are quite prepared to bully DH and me!
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Do you know any of the neighbours ju ju? Perhaps they could ask him if he needs anything when they're going. My Dad would never ask for help either.
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Ju ju the "dont make a fuss" attitude is so hard to crack. Whilst sitting in the communal garden of my parents retirement flats there is one elderly lady who doesnt get it and she walks straight up to ppl puts her hand on their shoulder etc. Some of the residents tell her of it but my mum says "I cant be nasty she doesnt understand" I cant get through to mum that it's not being nasty..
My dad said he has seen them let people who look like they cant stand for long to go to the front. They did it with him once. It depends how on the ball the member of staff is. Those push along things with a seat are a good idea CLKD. . He probably shouldnt be going out but I dont think my dad should either and in the end he was saying "I'm not going to talk to you if all you do is nag me". So I've given up. But it's such a worry isnt it? They are adults who dont want to be told what to do by their "children".
I have a dilemma. Mum and dad want to be my buble. (I live alone). I've been isolating but I do go to the shops and chemist and everyone is too close. so I dont know whether its a good idea to go into their flat. Although on an emotional level it would do us all good.
Xx
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Tc it is difficult. R they well? Will they keep a distance, I can't rely on my Mum to do so. So won't be visiting as she 'won't be told'.
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Hiya CLKD. 🖐. From what you've said before I know it's been challenging with your mum. How is she in herself?
Mum and dad touch wood are o.k. he goes for a jog every day. He is 80 in August. He has always hated being stuck indoors. He gets the newspapers every day for those in the flats who cant get out. He reads them all before he dishes them out tho :) mum has a heart condition and hasnt been anywhere. But they played golf together last week. And dad played in a "four ball" (him and 3 others) on Monday. The 3 others are all his age and one is having cancer treatment. What can you do? We can't ground them.!!! He said he keeps himself safe and distanced. He said has no intention of going anywhere that he cant do that.
Xxx
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Its the young uns that are getting my back up. They just do not seem to realise the severity of the situation. I have been at home for close on 90 days now, only take the dog out for a walk, I buy mostly online or my daughter delivers. Neither OH or myself have underlying conditions that I am aware of, but I made the choice as I want to do whatever I can to prevent being exposed. My daughter keeps telling me to relax and that I am compromising my immunity by stressing, but she will go out to friends and is in and out of the shop and the hair salon and then gets a bit iffy with me if I do not want her to come for tea. I have enough personal stress in my life without having to stress, every time shes been, who has she been with, has she unknowingly been exposed, I just do not see why I should have to go through all that stress. Yes I will go out and face the world, we all have to sometime, but when we choose to & how we do so, I feel is our choice and in our time & I have asked her to please respect this and to try and understand my paranoia. Some people take it all in their stride, but I know if I get it, it will hit me hard, I cannot even get a common cold without it ending up in a cough that drags on for weeks on end, usually resulting in me having to take cortisone or antibiotics, so therefore I have made the choice to try my damndest to avoid exposure to people. But the youngsters are going about their lives as normal, which is great, each to their own, and it is sad not to be able to celebrate birthdays and special occasions this year, but to me, its a year @ War and it too shall pass, we just need to be kind and respectful of everyone as everyone handles these types of crises in their own way. :-\
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Cassie no one should question what you feel you need to do to keep yourself safe. It is up to us all as individuals to take that responsibility for ourselves. But I also feel a responsibility to others especially my parents and the older vulnerable in my family. I personally have only been to the shops. I wont be meeting up with friends I havent seen in the park etc or doing anything I think is unnecessary because I want to visit mum and dad in their garden and I feel a responsibility not to put them at risk. But not everyone in my family thinks that way. For instance I can now go into my mum and dads flat if I want to. But I dont think my sis should as she is working with lots of people and my niece and nephew are too. The potential is there for a family row. And when it comes down to it. I cant tell my sister what to do. I've been accused of being paranoid too. Plus I know for a fact if mum has me there no way will she have one daughter and not the other.
The lifting of lockdown whilst necessary is creating these intra family dilemmas everywhere I would imagine.
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My sister lives alone and couldn't decide between our parents households, so she has decided to visit neither and form a bubble with her friend who is also on her own.
Bleedin' nightmare!
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Hi TC
I can identify with what you are saying. I have 3 sisters, one has cancer and is isolating, and another lives 150 miles away. So the remaining sister, has 5 kids and assorted grand kids all in and out of her house, bending (breaking) the rules constantly. So, sister will not visit my Mum across town, even to see her through the window, or in the garden. She even suggested that my 83 year old mum get the bus across town and visit her! As her house has more space and easier to distance apparently!
I feel so sorry for my Mum. My daughter and I do as much as we can, bring her shopping, visit and sit in the garden (or talk through her window sometimes).
I did wonder if I should create a bubble with my Mum rather than my bf, but in the end I thought it would be better to continue as we are, sitting in the garden etc. Because my daughter who lives with me still has to go out to work, and the office she works in is small, and they still have bail hearing etc. Added to that they are starting jury trials again, and lots of people will be passing through her workplace.
Jeepers xx
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Barnacle. Maybe I should advertise for a "bubble friend" 😁
Jeeps. That sounds like a sensible solution to me. Each family has to weigh it all up I guess. My worry is that if I make my bubble anyone but my parents then should they need me that would prevent me from going inside their (small) flat. My instinct is to "reserve " my bubble for the time being in case they need me there.
My 74 year old uncle has just been called for jury service. The age was increased from 70 to 75 only a few years back. I wouldve thought given the current situation they wouldve started by calling under 70s first.
Xx
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Hi TC
He can ask to be excused? I'm sure in the current climate, that would be deemed reasonable excuse. My daughter tells me she is really surprised at the amount of people ringing up saying they are looking forward to it! Everyone must be really bored. I've done it, and its a lot of sitting around, waiting. Added to the risk factor, its not really an inviting prospect.
thats a good point about if your parents were to need you, what a lovely daughter you are :)
Jeepers xx
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There really is no logic is there ::). He can refuse, of course. It is illegal for the over 70s to mix, how many healthy over 70s have had to isolate :-\
Mum's fine whilst she continues to moan ;D and I have no desire to drive for 2 hours to be told that she can't sit for long as someone might sit in her chair >:(
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The jury selections are done by computers. I suppose they haven't changed the algorithm to exclude any over 70's, or had any human intervention to filter them out.
Jeepers xx
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Probably didn't cross anyone's mind that over 70s are still isolating .......... I hope he says a firm 'no'!
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Hair salons aren't open :-\ ???
Well done Tc on your Dad playing golf. I think more people are likely to die in the over 70 age groups from lack of exercise!! They are in the fresh air after all .......... golf however, spoils a good walk :D
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Hello ladies.
The easing of the Lockdown is making me anxious. I realise that the economy needs businesses to open but it seems that some people are acting as if the danger has passed and it hasn't.
My nephew has continued to work, travelling all around the country including hotpots like London. He has now invited himself to his parent's house for lunch even though his father has health issues including compromised lung function due to cancer. When we mentioned that this visit might be a bit risky we were told we were making a fuss. My SIL wants us to visit too but how can we insist on social distancing if they behave as if it is no longer necessary. They will end up being physically close to us and we can't run away!
Friends of ours who work in the local hospital say all staff have had their July leave cancelled so perhaps a second spike of COVID is expected then, possibly as a result of the relaxed regulations.
I will be continuing with social distancing for the time being and wait with baited breath to see the results of the recent changes.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Kathleen. It's all so difficult for family relations. . I agree that the next few weeks will be very telling in terms of another spike. However hard we try to keep safe we are being effected by how others choose to view the seriousness of this.
Clkd. Dad makes exactly that point about exercise and fresh air.
Aah. Thanks jeeps. And thanks for the info about jury service being computer generated. My uncle has said no.
Clkd. The chair thing. Oh my days. I've seen ppl in a care home have a fight over a chair!!
Xxx
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I check every day how many new cases have been reported in my county and how many tests have been carried out. I feel better about going out when I read its usually 0 or 1 new cases but I still keep my distance. I try and find any positive news that I can, at the moment the second wave of infections doesnt seem to be happening in europe, even though they have started to open businesses and schools according to the professor I follow on twitter. Fingers crossed second wave doesnt happen here either :)
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Distance and hand washing in hot soapy water regularly are key.
Does anyone really need to rush to the shops, by the way the Royal Mail were talking through March and April, people had been buying on line ::).
Teresa - we have our own bubble here ;). It's usually much quieter too, I'm sure we will all be hoarse and deaf by C.mas :D
Leave being cancelled is probably to relief those who have been on the Front Line. If Staff have been on Duty in non-Covid areas they will be drafted to other areas to cover those already exhausted workers. Leave being cancelled is usual in a 'major accident' scenerio, that is over 42 people involved in an incident.
;D. I've seen daggers drawn - years ago I took my dog visiting the local Private Retirement Home and if anyone sat in someone else's chair :madeyes: if looks could kill - I suppose it's security?
A 2nd wave isn't expected. Apparently. It really does depend on which hymn sheet 'they' are reading from >:(
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Two hoots. I hadnt thought of checking locally. But I think maybe going forwards there will be more obvious"pockets" where infection rates are higher. I've just checked my local figures and my borough is half way down the list of London boroughs (confirmed covid cases). But my local paper has reported that the more "deprived areas" of my borough are showing a higher percentage of cases and higher death rates than the rest of the borough. They list my area as "more deprived" 🙁 not that I didnt know that already. But maybe it's no coincidence that I've spent the whole of lockdown moaning that ppl in my area are not distancing and havent from the start.
Teresa sending you a big hug. I know what it feels like to suddenly realise you havent used your voice for days.
When everyone was in the same boat with lockdown I had no shortage of friends calling during the day and weekends. Group chats, group quizzes etc. In fact I had more interaction daily than I have the whole time I've lived alone. But ppl.are going back to work as you say. And soon ppl will be resuming other areas of their lives and the last couple of weeks my phone hasnt rung as much.
When it gets like that I usually get a glass of wine and sit and go through my phone list and call anyone who will answer. :)
I'm glad you met up with a friend. Even distanced it's still good to have that interaction.
Xxxx
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If you want to check local numbers the ONS postcode area map has been updated, I used google to find it :)
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national cases have crept up the last two days. I find it all very worrying that most people seem to think this is all over. I am in a FB group which is run by a hospital doctor, hospital admissions have gone up for three consecutive days too. He reckons second wave could be in around 3-4 weeks time.
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national cases have crept up the last two days. I find it all very worrying that most people seem to think this is all over. I am in a FB group which is run by a hospital doctor, hospital admissions have gone up for three consecutive days too. He reckons second wave could be in around 3-4 weeks time.
I didn't notice cases had gone up. I know they vary through the week due to a reporting lag at weekends. It's the 7 day rolling average that is the important number, and as far as I know that is still going down.
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Thanks jaypo, that really good news :)
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Deaths in Northants and Norfolk rose since Wed :'(
Experts tell the public that there is unlikely to be a 2nd wave ..........
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Less people packed in side by side?
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By now of course these marches should be stopped. Riot Act springs to mind but of course :-X same as pulling statues off plinths, that is MY history :bang:
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Tin hat on, waits for the outrage...
I agree though, behaving like thugs doesn't help the cause.
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Hello ladies
Good grief Clkd, you had me thinking you were related to slaves traders for a minute there!
In my opinion our nation's history is important which is why we conserve artefacts in museums. This is where the the facts are recorded unemotionally and in context. Perhaps the problem with the statues is that they are memorials therefore praising the individuals concerned.
Take care all.
K
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I think museums are a good idea for lots of them. How often do we see a statue and have no idea who they are, or what they did.
You can't change history, good or bad, but information and context is vital. History is all about interpretation and one persons hero is anothers villian. Slave traders are a different thing though. Why on earth was that Bristol statue not taken down decades ago.
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I've just had a letter from the NHS asking me to take part in a COVID-19 testing research. Apparently its being conducted by Imperial College London and IPSOS mori. Has anyone else had this? If I sign up, they will send me a testing kit and I have to complete some health questions on line
The letter says I was chosen at random from the NHS list.
Jeepers xx
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Jeepers. Do you think it's the antibody test?
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Oh, that would be interesting.
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So I can't be insulted that my history is being damaged? Why can't I be insulted when students flock to Oxford then slam the staute, after all if it handn't been for Rhodes putting money into the University, they wouldn't be here. There is no logic ..........
It's vandalism. Marches should be stopped, aren't we all being told to stay alert, save the NHS etc.? Not to mix with more than 6 people ...... It's time that the Police took action and did what they are paid to do: that is not to be political or on the 'side' of anyone but to enforce the Law ?!?
I come from a slave trade town ;-). But on the abolitionist side.
Jeepers - it's not an anti-body test, they aren't available yet. My friends are taking part in similar through another organisation: throat swabs and lots of questions with a dedicated Nurse visiting them at home.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/12/coronavirus-uk-map-the-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases
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:thankyou:
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that's better jaypo ........... ;)
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CLKD, it is everyone's history and we should all educate ourselves about it because it should never be allowed to repeat itself. I am completely against the criminal acts which a few people are carrying out, but when people feel ignored/unheard, they often resort to things that we may find unacceptable.
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Hello again ladies.
In an interview a woman said that for years local people had been asking the Council in Bristol to remove the statue. I think she was pleased that a crowd of demonstraters had made the decision for them.
Take care everyone.
K.
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:rofl:
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Hi
No, it's not the antibody test study.
As for the statues. .. yes, they are part of history, but statues are specifically there to the glorification of their subjects, which is actually abhorrant in the case if slave traders.
They should be put into a museum, with lots of context put around what they are.and what they represent.
The Berlin wall was part of history, but I'm glad it's gone.
And protesters... That's a difficult one, as the protests get infiltrated by others, whose agenda is completely different. But, if the suffragettes hadn't protested, we as women, would not have the freedoms we enjoy today.
Just my thoughts, for what they are worth
Jeepers xx
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Can I rant? I am shielding, but as I live on the edge of a village, I go for daily walks along an unmade road, where you can ( I thought) safely social distance from anyone you meet. Up to now I have had no problems until today. A group of 4 people spaced apart were walking towards me. I assumed they would drop behind each other as people normally do, in order to keep a safe distance, but not a bit of it. They didn't give me any room and I couldn't escape onto the narrow bit of verge as it was covered with nettles and brambles. I would have had a go at them, except that it might have put me at further risk. I'm going to carry a retractable ruler to make my point! They didn't appear to be talking to each other.
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It's happening more often. Both my son and myself had separate instances in supermarkets this week. Also, in both cases it was people masked and gloved up, which is quite laughable really. It's almost as if they felt invincible with their extra protection.
Not bothered about anyone else though ::).
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Jeepers - all comments should be worth reading.
Ju Ju - people have no idea ......... rubbish appearing in the countryside now that McDonalds etc. are open, cars racing by our house really, really fast. All lockdown situations forgotten, will soon be back to normal as it was after 9/11. Except for those that are badly affected and involved.
Councils don't take notice of much at all, as they aren't in post for long enough.
Northamptonshire has the most deaths again :'(
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Yes, agree with all of that clkd.
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Well it seems that the 'it all ends at 5.00 p.m.' worked then :-\ >:(
I feel that we are getting out of lockdown a little too quickly. People are still dying :-\ ........ OK where social distancing is being enforced but a Rabbi was knifed today and apparently the man had followed him into and out of the store B4 the incident - no distancing there ?
Our shop is now relying on regulars to know the routine and thus far it is working. One villager aged 92 didn't want to jump the queue but was 'encouraged' as it was very hot today. Then he decided to go round the shop staff [5] and have a chat with each ::). He lives alone.
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I also think we are rushing out of lockdown too quickly CLKD. Too much too soon. Why not just introduce one easing measure, then wait a couple of weeks and introduce the next?
It feels like the government were trying to placate us after that bloody Dominic Cummings debacle. I also think we should have had a stricter earlier lockdown with clear rules like they did in other countries.
However, I understand the economy is ruined and that people are getting blas? and starting to do what they want anyway, including my own dd I'm ashamed to say.
I'm fed up with it now.
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The government shut down the NHS as they feared it would be swamped - well there's a lesson they won't be learning 'cos once this is over :-X
Northamptonshire seems to have a huge problem, it's known as a 'hotspot' ........ hopefully someone will get to the bottom of why eventually but 7 deaths between Wed and Friday :'(
I will be keeping away from others. We don't mix anyway, miserable gits usually :D. We are being eased back by the Banks. Pushing and pushing ....... and the Prof who was sacked from SAGE keeps putting his oar in, now saying that we went into lock down too late. Hindsight? or truth - will we ever be told ?
Don't be ashamed of DD Blot. Some say that we need herd immunity, others say that will never happen: all supposedly 'experts' :-\. Even though there was no template for this, the fact that the governments of the World met: twice: to discuss the what ifs makes my blood boil. That's when the public should have been warned!!
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The problem being the virus was probably in this country waaaay before and we just didn't know,nobody on this earth can tell me we have a sure date for when this virus started here
It's funny you should say that. I had a strange virus way back in September. It wasn't particularly bad but the symptoms match. My family said I was mistaken until I got out my journal and showed them.
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The problem being the virus was probably in this country waaaay before and we just didn't know,nobody on this earth can tell me we have a sure date for when this virus started here
It's funny you should say that. I had a strange virus way back in September. It wasn't particularly bad but the symptoms match. My family said I was mistaken until I got out my journal and showed them.
I had a nasty virus which affected my throat and lasted about 6 weeks from Nov to Dec. I have wondered about it since.
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Poverty also kills, so the sooner the economy can get moving again the better. 3 of our friends, all different industries, have lost their jobs in the past month, and 2 more are expecting to be told very soon.
The majority of people will adhere to rules and coming out of lockdown, will act responsibly. The others, well.....
What bothers me is, moving forward a few months when the usual cold and flu viruses start doing the rounds, will people have to isolate at the first sign of a cough/sneeze?
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Our local nhs trust reckons it's going to take 5 years to make up for the backlog of missed appointments and treatments. The nhs is in for a rough ride so I don't even want to think about a second wave in the winter.
I pray they get a vaccine sorted ASAP.
And as for all the people who are inevitably going to lose their jobs? it's a nightmare.
Anybody think they will lockdown again?
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The country will be on its knees when shops and the hospitality industry open up but with social distancing measures. They won't be able to make enough money and there are going to be thousands of job losses.
I dont know what the answer is.
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I think the 2 metre rule will change in time for the hospitality industry opening up.
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We went to Lanzarote at the end of January, on the way back, our son rang and said he was off work with ?flu?. He told me then, ?Mom, I've never felt so ill.? Lasted about 4/5 days.
Makes me wonder if he had it then too. 🤷♀️
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Anybody think they will lockdown again?
I think they might try to enforce a lockdown on certain districts, but i can't see it happening to the entire country again.
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I think the 2 metre rule will change in time for the hospitality industry opening up.
There is talk of them announcing a relaxation on it very soon, but Whitty and Valance are very much against it. Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!
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It was certainly Wauhan in November. There is still a thought that it 'escaped' :o. Still the World trades with China :-\
Until we get antibody testing, we won't know if we have been infected. Will be the most interesting survey I think .
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Me too. If I test positive for anti bodies I will know exactly when I had it..it was after I went on the tube in rush hour. I had a virus unlike anything I have ever had before. And it was the first week in February.
Completely unrelated to that my aunt flew over from Holland in late january to visit her son and ended up in hospital twice. They couldnt understand why her oxygen levels kept going so low. She was collapsing when walking upstairs or for any distance. . Never had anything like it in her life. Saw her own doc when she got back to Holland during February by then everything was normal and he couldnt explain the results which had been sent to him nor come up with a reason for it. She hasnt had it since.
Makes you go hmmmm doesnt it?
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Hmmmmm, it certainly does TC. It really does!
That's because most things COME from China, CLKD.
Everything, where's it made? CHINA!
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And we are sending things to China . Still. Anyone see the report of the very large container ship arriving in the UK yesterday filled with stuff. From China. It will return with things from the UK :'(
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I caught a few points on this thread.
So just to be clear, herd immunity is a very important way of dealing with a disease. The crucial question is how you get there. The controversy was over what appeared to be the strategy of achieving it rhough letting the disease rampage unchecked through the population. Obviously an absurd idea and they seem to be getting nearer to that in Brazil through their inept leader. Well not quite but pretty bad.
Getting to herd immunity through vaccination is the main way of achieving protection. If an effective vaccine (that prevents serious cases of the disease and that lasts 12 months at least) cannot be found then it will remain a very serious disease, and we will then have to rely on treatments, again to minimise the need for ventilation and deaths.
I agree when the antibody tests are more widely available this will be illuminating! They are currently only very limited, presumably because they need to be manufactured in very large quantities. Here is more information: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests
Finally, over 70's have never had to isolate, but as vulnerable ( not clinically extremely vulnerable) they had and still have to take particular care over observing the lockdown rules and adhering to social distancing etc. Nor was it ever illegal specifically for over 70's to go out in the sense that the same rules (and legal framework) applied to all of us except for those of all ages who were/are "shielding". Not even sure if it was illegal for the shielders to go out but strongly recommended for their own protection?
Goods from China (and other countries). So?
Hurdity x
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Human Rights Abuses for starters. Not being honest about the initial cause of this Pandemic ......... becoming reliant on 1 country for our needs when much was manufactured in the UK ....... getting rid of the cheap clothes/food idea? Not becoming reliant for our medication, made in India but ingredients sourced in China ..........
I don't understand your comment about the over 70s. They had to isolate. No one in government was concerned enough to find out whether the over 70s were healthy or had underlying conditions which meant stay at home. They were all lumped into the same cage. They were given 3 months isolation. Not even allowed an hours daily exercise, though some I know did go out early or very late.
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Human Rights Abuses for starters. Not being honest about the initial cause of this Pandemic ......... becoming reliant on 1 country for our needs when much was manufactured in the UK ....... getting rid of the cheap clothes/food idea? Not becoming reliant for our medication, made in India but ingredients sourced in China ..........
I don't understand your comment about the over 70s. They had to isolate. No one in government was concerned enough to find out whether the over 70s were healthy or had underlying conditions which meant stay at home. They were all lumped into the same cage. They were given 3 months isolation. Not even allowed an hours daily exercise, though some I know did go out early or very late.
Over 70s did not HAVE to isolate. They were advised to do so. My sister, who is 72, has been isolating but only because she received a text from her Surgery advising her to because of her asthma. Nothing to do with her age mentioned. Also she has been going out for a daily walk every day.
Don't understand your comments on trade with China. How would stopping trade be possible or beneficial??
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America has a lot of human rights abuse too... And Boris describes them as our best ally.
I agree that we should be more self sufficient, and not abandon all our manufacturing , it puts people out of work, and it also leaves us vulnerable.
But unfortunately, it's all about profits.
Jeepers xx
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America has a lot of human rights abuse too... And Boris describes them as our best ally.
I agree that we should be more self sufficient, and not abandon all our manufacturing , it puts people out of work, and it also leaves us vulnerable.
But unfortunately, it's all about profits.
Jeepers xx
Don't forget the Gulf States either. But of course we need the oil.
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[quote author=CLKD link=topic=46617.msg779403#msg779403 date=1592209622
I don't understand your comment about the over 70s. They had to isolate. No one in government was concerned enough to find out whether the over 70s were healthy or had underlying conditions which meant stay at home. They were all lumped into the same cage. They were given 3 months isolation. Not even allowed an hours daily exercise, though some I know did go out early or very late.
[/quote]
Over 70's didn't have to self isolate - they were allowed out once a day for exercise the same as the rest of us as long as there's no underlying health condition. Many volunteers who have been delivering food and medication are over 70. :-\
Taz x
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America has a lot of human rights abuse too... And Boris describes them as our best ally.
I agree that we should be more self sufficient, and not abandon all our manufacturing , it puts people out of work, and it also leaves us vulnerable.
But unfortunately, it's all about profits.
Jeepers xx
Yes, very good point Shady :-)
Don't forget the Gulf States either. But of course we need the oil.
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I started to read this thread back ........ it seems some responses have been removed as others no longer make sense ::)
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Reads fine to me.
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I gave up at page 22 ;D
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The govt did say it. They then contradicted it. Now they have changed the rules. IMO they have used too much variations in language when describing the rules or changes in them and its led to confusion
https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-lockdown-over-70s-guidelines-matt-hancock-a9496266.html?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15922491091031&_ct=1592249152787&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fcoronavirus-lockdown-over-70s-guidelines-matt-hancock-a9496266.html
Here is what has been said last week
https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52575594?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15922506118780&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
It is different to the original guidance. They have removed the original guidance but people have screenshots of it.
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Tnx Tc. I have a 70 year old brotherinLaw and they were definitely told not to go out. That was relaxed after a few weeks to allow them an hour's walk.
I spent 2 hours looking for Links yesterday :-\ ......... I knew that I hand't dreamt what they were told initially. You seem quite aggressive Diane200.
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I'm just pondering on whether this thread which started out with the words "4 people in Scotland being tested" could end up being the longest ever on the forum. 🤔 little did we know back then what was to come.
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I was thinking the same thing the other day ;D
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Look what you started litttleminnie ;D ;D
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I did my COVID-19 test today. I'm not sure if it will be any good though, as I retched when doing the throat swab, so may have gastric juice on it, then I sneezed doing the nasal swabs!
Courier picked it up, so thats that now
Jeepers xx
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It's good that - means that you got far enough down! How long B4 the results are back?
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Now now girls, play nicely....perhaps its the heat that is making everyone tetchy ;D
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Anyone know if there have been deaths associated with C-19 in the last 48 hours? They aren't going to have a daily update any more :drunk: probably knew that I wasn't watching any longer ;-)
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36
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https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
This is updated around 4:00pm every day.
It is more important to focus on the number of new cases rather than the death figures, as some people have been ill for weeks before they die.
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Tnx. Wonder how long B4 the spikes happen from the recent crowd get-2-gethers?
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I have to say I didn't think your post was aggressive but sometimes people interpret things differently. Any unpleasantness will soon blow over so please carry on posting.
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Could you post where you read that information CLKD. I have quite a few over 70's that I know that have been more active than I have been. They are not quite the war generation but my goodness they put me to shame.
Do they need to worry and have we missed something.
Any info CLKD would be appreciated, I don't like to think they are taking risks. I have searched but I can't find anything that you mention.
The above seemed to B 'getting at me' - lacks a 'please' ........... but as I often say, the written word is static.
Browse round. Join in. We're all lost at times ::)
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Do continue to join in ? Move on? U don't have to leave .......... nor do you need to tiptoe around.
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CLKD always the voice of reason 8)
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Hello ladies.
Diane200 - I will also send you a pm.
Take care.
K.
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Tnx Cassie ;-).
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I think that menopause and the times we are living in with all the undue stress tends to make us lovely ladies very sensitive, I have become overly so, but on this forum, I have encountered real concern and empathy from so many. CLKD , as one of the ladies who has been active on this forum for many many years, she has in my opinion, always been most welcoming to new members, telling them to look around, ask questions and always taking the trouble to respond to any number of questions asked from various members, myself included , and when I went through a particularly rough patch last year and earlier this year, she along with many other lovely ladies offered sound advice in a sensible way that made me feel that this forum is one of the few that I will definitely not wish to leave in a hurry, no one needs to feel that they need to tiptoe around, take a deep breathe & enjoy being here, everyone is really great, have a super day all.
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I did read somewhere about the over 70s "being advised to stay at home" . I work for a well known company and we had emails saying if you were pregnant, had an underlying health condition or were over 70 you did not need to go to work for 12 weeks. I know 2 of my colleagues who are over 70, no underlying conditions that I know of, they are not back at work yet. :)
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I think that was just advice though Penguin. For shielders there was an email, text or letter sent from their GP. My sister had a text because of her asthma.
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Yeah, they advised the over 70s to stay at home, the company I work for told those over 70 not to come to work for 12 weeks. My husband got a letter as he has to shield, just had another last week extending it to 1st August ::) its very hard having a shielder af home.
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I agree with everything you said Cassie. I too have had wonderful support here and am amazed how clkd keeps up and responds to so many.
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We have been shielding for 12 weeks, got the letter extending it to 31St July, we haven't seen any family at all, and was planning to have the garden meet with daughter sil and grandson when we are allowed on July 6th, but had a look at weather forecast and it's not brilliant, Just got to keep fingers crossed.
it's been hard to be honest but what was the alternative really? We have had gov food box, until , priority home deliveries from supermarkets kicked in, medicine to door, milkman and butcher, so we have coped, and system has worked for us.
I have got cross when I've seen the flouting of rules by neighbours, as it has potential to keep us shielders in for longer, but everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.
When we are allowed out, it will be very strange and a bit scared no doubt
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This is from the Gov.UK website, it was the information issued on 30th March and withdrawn in 1st May -
We are advising those who are at increased risk of severe illness from coronavirus (COVID-19) to be particularly stringent in following social distancing measures.
This group includes those who are:
aged 70 or older (regardless of medical conditions)
under 70 with an underlying health condition listed below (ie anyone instructed to get a flu jab as an adult each year on medical grounds):
chronic (long-term) mild to moderate respiratory diseases, such as asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), emphysema or bronchitis
chronic heart disease, such as heart failure
chronic kidney disease
chronic liver disease, such as hepatitis
chronic neurological conditions, such as Parkinson's disease, motor neurone disease, multiple sclerosis (MS), a learning disability or cerebral palsy
diabetes
a weakened immune system as the result of conditions such as HIV and AIDS, or medicines such as steroid tablets
being seriously overweight (a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or above)
those who are pregnant
Over 70s were asked to take more care along with some medical conditions, Google COVID-19 advice for the over 70s if you want more information.
If you ask me its up to the individual, nobody can tell you when to go out, you need to feel happy. It also depends where you live, there are local hot spots, Leicester is mentioned along with Merthyr here in Wales that had 100 new cases yesterday, Im healthy and have been going shopping but if I lived in Merthyr Id give it a miss at the moment ???
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You are quite right about it being up to the individual. My sister, who has been shielding, ventured to her local village store last week. Chose a quiet time so only one other person in there.
Everyone has there own threshold as to how restricted they want to be.
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Leicester in lock down ...........
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I can't believe the over 70's issue was stilll being discussed! This has come up soooo many times and the record's been put straight. Thank you Two hoots. As far as I understand it and I've said probably umpteen times on this or other threads, Government advice for over 70's was NEVER that they had to stay at home nor that they were advised to, like I said in my previous post, they (along with other vulnerable groups) had to take extra special care to observe social distancing and all the other advice measures during lickdown and since. The media together with the incompetent Matt Hancock are repsonsible for all the confusion. Exactly as you have posted Two hoots. The key words are "to be particularly stringent in following social distancing measures." NOT "Stay at home completely" ( like the shielders).
At one point our esteemed health sec muddled up the vulnerable with the clinically extremely vulnerable (shielding group) on one of the briefings which led to a media storm. If over 70s had to stay at home why would there have been shopping slots allocated to them and the other vulnerable groups?
What companies advised their staff re going to work is a completely different matter....
Hurdity x
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You lucky thing Hurdity, did you enjoy your lickdown ;D Im thinking being in lickdown with Matt Baker might be quite nice (very, very nice) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You lucky thing Hurdity, did you enjoy your lickdown ;D Im thinking being in lickdown with Matt Baker might be quite nice (very, very nice) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh no, I will have that in my brain all day now. :o ;D
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lickdown and spice?
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You lucky thing Hurdity, did you enjoy your lickdown ;D Im thinking being in lickdown with Matt Baker might be quite nice (very, very nice) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No wonder Hurdity never complained about being bored. :o
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:rofl:
Honestly I laughed so much out loud at your comments that my husband complained as he was trying to listen to the lunchtime radio!!
My fingers often type that word instead of the correct one (O being next to I) but I usually pick it up when I read through before posting! "Should've gone to Specsavers" ( via Barnard Castle since this is the CV 19 thread)!!
I had to look up who Matt Baker was though....
I'm still laughing! Thanks everyone! ;D ;D ;D
Hurdity x
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I had to google Matt Baker too!!
Taz x ;D
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I prefer Lolo Williams.
My favourite ornithologist. :)
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Matt is as lovely in real Life as he appears on TV ;)
It will be hard work to keep the people of Leicester in lockdown :-\
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I prefer Lolo Williams.
My favourite ornithologist. :)
I had to look him up too!
Hurdity x
PS still laughing at everyone's comments.... ::)
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Come on then Hurdity who would you choose to be in lickdown with ::)
Thank you for not correcting the mistake its been just what lots of us needed :)
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:rofl: ;D ;D lickdown!!!
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Anyone remember chocolate body paint ;D
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Have any of you sent for a home test for Covid-19, they are free and results in about 48 hours,
There are so many symptoms to watch for now,it could be anything,
Also i read this morning that the US has bought almost all the worlds Remdesivir anti viral medicine
I think by the numbers of people diagnosed with covid they still might not have enough
There will be none for England, Ireland ,or Scotland
Luckily we have the other medication, can't remember the name, except begins with B
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I've been reading how difficult it is for some people to recover, even if they had light symptoms: fatigue which is re-triggering episodes of Lyme disease and ME :-\ . Some are coughing for months, others have developed hay fever ......
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Also i read this morning that the US has bought almost all the worlds Remdesivir anti viral medicine
Dexamethodone is cheaper and available world wide and is cheaper than the above, i.e. ?5.00 - on the BBC news right now. [Fergus Walsh]
"A mental health nurse who spent 60 days in intensive care with coronavirus at two different hospitals said the ordeal had wasted away his body.
"Dan Ridlington, 43, from Broxbourne, Hertfordshire, was on a ventilator for four weeks during his stay at Royal Papworth Hospital in Cambridge, after being transferred from the Princess Alexandra in Harlow, Essex.
"He lost more than three-and-a-half stone in weight and has had to relearn basic tasks such as walking, talking and swallowing.
"Speaking at his partner's home in Ipswich, where he is recovering after being discharged, he said: "It's wasted pretty much my entire body.
"I've lost a load of weight, my muscles all need to be retrained and built up again. There are a lot of people that have been damaged by Covid, both physically and mentally."
"He hopes to return to work at Chase Farm Hospital in Enfield, north London, next year".
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I got my covid test results back... Negative! Always a good result :hapij:
Jeepers xx
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I got my covid test results back... Negative! Always a good result :hapij:
Jeepers xx
Hooray. That is good news. :)
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Hello Jeepers.
Excellent news and one less thing to worry about lol.
Take care.
K.
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So pleased for you Jeepers!
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Have any of you sent for a home test for Covid-19, they are free and results in about 48 hours,
There are so many symptoms to watch for now,it could be anything,
Also i read this morning that the US has bought almost all the worlds Remdesivir anti viral medicine
I think by the numbers of people diagnosed with covid they still might not have enough
There will be none for England, Ireland ,or Scotland
Luckily we have the other medication, can't remember the name, except begins with B
Does Wales have a supply ?
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Probably not .......... but the alternative drug which has been used in the UK successfully is cheaper and available ;-).
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I wonder why Ireland was mentioned in the post but not Wales ? And not just say UK :(
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Is there a mention on your local news feed Two hoots? I go through all the regions at least twice a day ::)
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Have I choose the wrong drug out of all those to hand?
How about this : dexamethasone :
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I have just listened to BBC Radio 4s MORE OR LESS. It was broadcast this week but you can still get it on SOUNDS.
Very interesting, with a break down and analysis of the UK's virus data and prediction of how it will affect us in the future.
Well worth a listen. It seems a second spike is unlikely, but local peaks are, particularly among young people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kfpy
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Hello ladies.
I wonder if predictions will change after the events of this weekend when the pubs and bars open up?
There is a rumour that all police leave has been cancelled and we know people in the NHS who are preparing for increased A and E admissions. That's just to accommodate the Saturday night drunks never mind the COVID infections that will result!
I realise that we need to get back to normal and get the economy moving so we will just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully any outbreaks of the virus will be traced and contained. Fingers crossed!
Wishing you all well ladies.
K.
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Something that I have been wondering about & just cant seem to get clarity on, to be honest, I don't think anyone really knows, not even the so called experts....now that things are opening up and we are getting out and about, how easy or not is it to contract the virus outdoors.
I have had runners and walkers coming past me with no masks on and am so confused by what I understand as airborne, have seen an article saying that one can actually walk through the mist that these people exhale, but not often possible to keep a social distance of 2 meters when they come past at a rate, cyclists are even worse and one cannot stay indoors forever, wish we had some clarity and definite proof of infection possibility outdoors, it really seems to be a bit of a grey area. :-\
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Well if you test positive, and have to give the names of contacts, they are only the ones that you have been in very close contact with.
That is - Less that a metre for 15 minutes or more.
That suggests it would be very unlikely that you would catch the virus from passing a runner or cyclist.
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Have any of you sent for a home test for Covid-19, they are free and results in about 48 hours,
There are so many symptoms to watch for now,it could be anything,
Also i read this morning that the US has bought almost all the worlds Remdesivir anti viral medicine
I think by the numbers of people diagnosed with covid they still might not have enough
There will be none for England, Ireland ,or Scotland
Luckily we have the other medication, can't remember the name, except begins with B
I have the Zoe app on my phone - the university that is doing the research into local outbreaks and seeing if they can predict cases from symptoms listed. I've so far had two tests because they;ve sent me for a test when I've had various symptoms (like headaches) even though not covid! One was posted and the other was drive through (didn't get on with the home test as couldn't do the throat swab properly without massvie gag!)
Hurdity x
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Will you share Folklass ;D
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Sorry i said began with a B ,i think it is Dexamethasone, i sent for a home test as did my daughter,she got hers back in 48 hours,still waiting for mine,it will be 5 days tomorrow,
I don't have a temperature or anything except a cough, and headache sometimes,and getting out of breath sometimes,
Now had 2 panic attacks as i felt i couldn't breathe, but it wears off,so assuming they ARE panic attacks
Had another one this morning, awful feeling, still just wearing offI felt fine when i woke up and it suddenly came on, couldn't take a deep breath
I don't want to ring 911,should i ring the test centre i wonder
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The papers have said Birmingham will be next on lockdown. ( if it's true) just like Leicester.
Just as my son goes back to work too. ☹️
So we'll wait and see. 🤷♀️
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Well i decide to ring the test centre, was asked if registered,i said yes,over the phone as couldn't click on the email link, the lady said might not have registered, asked my details again, she said if it can't be traced will need to do another,and yet on the instructions says if symptoms are past day 6 don't do the test,too late
I did see on TV the other day that some home tests had been lost,knowing my luck mine will be one of them
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Yep. The cynic in me says that when they have their daily quota of tests ....... my sister is in the care sector and out of 15 staff/clients tested, 7 were lost - swabbed by the NHS!
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After ringing to find out where my results were,i got a text and email about 20 minutes later saying negative :)
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Good news, pleased for you jaycee :-)
Jeepers xx
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That's good.
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Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but I don't understand the latest ?face masks might become mandatory in shops?? But you are ok to spend hours in the pub without one? All seems a bit daft.
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That's in Scotland :-\
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No apparently Boris is thinking about introducing it in England too.
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Bit difficult to eat and drink in a mask ;D
Hurdity x
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I can't find any details on any of the sites ............. it's getting ridiculous now :-\. Should we/not ......... they changes their minds faster than I change my socks >:(
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Yes it's on the news they are considering mandatory masks in shops in England. I really don't want that. I use buses and have to use them there. It seems after 4 months why are they doing it now? Especially as they want people to spend money in shops. Numbers are limited to go in shops so it seems like making it up as they go along.
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They trigger my claustrophobia. I may have to buy a face shield and see if that less restrictive.
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I wear one all day at work and my specs keep steaming up. I will wear one in the shops if we have to but the logic of it escapes me. Loads of drinkers don't have to but if you pop into the shop for 10 mins you do?
Yes they are making it up as they go along.
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Seems to be a political decision. They think people will feel safer so more will return to the shops. When they make people in pubs wear one I might believe there's a scientific reason behind it.
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Shady I think they are although a friend of mine has to wear one at work and finds as a specs wearer they're hard to keep in place.x
Well I think that means I won't be going into shops then, if it's made mandatory.
That will be a shock for my husband. I'll have to send him into the supermarket with a list. We could end up with beer and chocolate biscuits. ::)
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I can't find anything on line to suggest this idea - stable; horse; bolted :-\ and if people put on/remove masks that will spread the virus really quickly within the home >:(
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Shadyglade, ;D (Could be worse I suppose!)
If anyone finds a solution to the mask/steamy glasses issue I'd love to hear about it.
JP x
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Also my masks are pristine, I don't want to contaminate them ;D. Time to begin a 'save the mask' group .............
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Shady I think they are although a friend of mine has to wear one at work and finds as a specs wearer they're hard to keep in place.x
Well I think that means I won't be going into shops then, if it's made mandatory.
That will be a shock for my husband. I'll have to send him into the supermarket with a list. We could end up with beer and chocolate biscuits. ::)
Throw in wine and I?ll move into your house.
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Shadyglade, ;D (Could be worse I suppose!)
If anyone finds a solution to the mask/steamy glasses issue I'd love to hear about it.
JP x
You can get anti-fogging spray I think which might help. There are lots of tips on the internet too. A friend uses the double sided tape trick. Places a strip on the bridge of her nose and then presses the mask on to it. It's all to do with fit. :-\
Taz x
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People don't wear masks properly, including me. They are up and. down all the time, under their chins then back up. Dr. Harries who was on the downing street updates pointed out risks like the virus getting trapped behind the mask, you could end up infecting yourself. Seeing pictures of people going to pubs and no distance and no masks would make a mockery of them being mandatory in shops.
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The daft thing is that when infections were at the highest, most people were in supermarkets with no masks. Where is the logic???
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Help ladies.
The New York Times has published a study that looked at the different infection rates in North and South California. After allowing for various factors the results concluded that in North California where there has always been a high level of mask wearing the infection rate is much lower than in South California where mask wearing isn't the norm. The conclusion is that masks do make a difference.
Also the WHO has recently said that a mask reduces the amount of viral exposure so if someone does become infected they will have a much less severe course of the disease.
Where I live very few people are wearing masks when out and about but that will obviously change if it becomes mandatory. I have some standard issue ones at the ready but there's a hand made pink one on order!
Take care ladies.
K.
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So... as long you don't wear knickers you don't need to wear a mask either? :o
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It's in shops, hospitals and GP surgeries thus far. Which means that many will give up on physically going shopping and will order on line. That's a good idea then Boris ?
Who is pulling his strings :-\
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You're meant to treat your masks like your underwear..wash when dirty, throw away when stained and no fiddling with them in public! ;D Not that you'd know Jillydoll, if it's you that don't wear knickers! ;) ;D
Mmmm, matching bra, nicks and mask sets. Any entrepreneurs on here?
JP x
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You could make masks out of bra cups. That could be interesting.
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Why does Boris look like he's bought spare underpants for his face :-\
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I think that the matching sets have been 'done' - I like the masks where one's photo is superimposed somehow .......... ;)
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jaypo - what's the atmosphere like on site? People relaxed and forgetting to distance or keeping 2 the 'rules' ??? ........ lots of hand wash around etc.? ? masks ?
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Why does Boris look like he's bought spare underpants for his face :-\
Maybe because everything that comes out of his mouth is b*llocks? ;D ;D ;D
:rofl:
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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That made me laugh, nearly choked on my wine😊
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Spoken very well, I thought! :rofl:
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:thankyou: I needed that :rofl:
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Wonder if he talks too much, it'll split!? ;D ;D :safe:
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🤢🤢🤮🤮. 😂🤣
He'll have hair like Cameron Diaz in that film, There's something about Mary. :rofl:
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Does that mean you're home :-\
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How was the trip over all? Worth the hassle?
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Rested?
government muttering about wearing masks ............. why do most look like knickers ! or sanitary protection :-\
However, face masks are common in China :-X >:(
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I agree 100% jaypo. It's making me feel stressed and anxious, though that probably sounds a bit pathetic. As you say, how long?
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Yes common in China but didn't do them much good did it :-\
I seriously don't want to wear a mask,I overheat as it is :'( I DONT want this to be the new norm,it's horrific if they make it compulsory,how long before you can stop wearing them,a month a year,it's a slippery slope
I agree absolutely! i don't want it to be a new 'norm'. I had a big argument with a woman on FB today who insisted that we needed to wear masks permanently outside the house. I said no if we were outside and alone or 2 M from the next person. Her response was to say that I was probably anti vax and a believer in a flat earth! :( ;D
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I don't believe that we should vaccinate for everything because that's why we are here now? >ducks<
We were advised earlier on by the 'experts' that masks don't protect the wearer ......... 'they' are getting a bit like Germany from 1933 onwards with all the sudden rules for the public :-\
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Yes, there's a whole new breed mask fanatics out there Katejo >:(
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Yes, they said wearing a mask wouldn't do anything because the germ is that tiny, it'll get through. They have to be ' proper masks', especially made so that you can't inhale the germ. Also, the germ can infect you by getting into any orifice. So, ears, eyes, cuts, etc. So apart from going around in a tied up black bag, nothings going to help!
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You can fall off the end anyway! 😆😂
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Burka anyone ? There are some lovely ethnic face coverings on line but they have to be fitted by the person who makes them. I wish I was handy with a needle :-\
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Face coverings. There is a new study reviewing their use and the verdict is yes they work:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now
What's to lose by trying to protect others and providing some protection to yourself?
We need rules because many of the public lack "common sense" as seen on the media. This is not a question of civil liberties or any such nonsense. There is a world pandemic which won't go away until (if) there is a vaccine (might need to be given annually) combined with appropriate treatment to mitigate the most serious cases. The sooner we comply to help keep infection down the less likely it will have a chance to get a hold again, maybe mutate and possibly become more virulent. I consider it our duty to comply with these recommendations so if we have to wear masks in a supermarket etc so be it. It will be for the good of everyone.
Hurdity x
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Funny how they think you'll spread it in a shop but not in a pub. Smacks of politics not science to me. They've even said people might feel safer going to the shops if people wear masks.
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I'm with Hurdity on this issue. I will wear a mask in a shop, in a hospital or other healthcare facility, in a taxi on on a bus. it's my decision to do so. My priority is to protect myself. I don't trust many people to act in the interests of the greater good. Too many people are only interested in their own selfish needs in the moment. We saw that with the panic buying and empty supermarket shelves in March ? with the result that a lot of food went to waste while the more vulnerable went without. I live in London but I listen to the recommendations in Scotland as because the the advice is clear, whereas the advice for England from the UK government is all over the place, and people aren't complying anyway.
Today I read the lasted figures from the data collected via the Covid-19 Study app & Kings College London. The R rate in London, by their estimation is currently R1.3. There has been a small but gradual increase in the infection rate in London from around 2nd/3rd July. My friend tells me that hardly anyone is wearing masks on the tube even though it's compulsory. The fact is, the virus doesn't spread of its own accord ? people spread the virus. Also, the virus hasn't just magically disappeared. it's still out there and it's still as dangerous as it was in March and April.
If I lived in a little village or market town in the shire counties where maybe the risk wasn't so high then there may be more leeway, but in London there are too many people, many living under the radar for whatever reason and many, many more who only think of themselves and feel no responsibility towards others. So my attitude is to look after my needs. it's not a principle. it's not about ?obeying? nor do I feel 'they? are 'telling me what to do?. I'm an intelligent woman. I take my information from the people who have medical and scientific expertise, not from newspapers or from the government and certainly not from social media. I make my decisions accordingly. Everyone else is free to do their own research and make their own decisions. I do what I feel is right for me. Remember. I live in inner London where life is often chaotic and there is very little social cohesion. It may well be different elsewhere.
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I'm with Hurdity on this issue. I will wear a mask in a shop, in a hospital or other healthcare facility, in a taxi on on a bus. it's my decision to do so. My priority is to protect myself. I don't trust many people to act in the interests of the greater good. Too many people are only interested in their own selfish needs in the moment. We saw that with the panic buying and empty supermarket shelves in March ? with the result that a lot of food went to waste while the more vulnerable went without. I live in London but I listen to the recommendations in Scotland as because the the advice is clear, whereas the advice for England from the UK government is all over the place, and people aren't complying anyway.
Today I read the lasted figures from the data collected via the Covid-19 Study app & Kings College London. The R rate in London, by their estimation is currently R1.3. There has been a small but gradual increase in the infection rate in London from around 2nd/3rd July. My friend tells me that hardly anyone is wearing masks on the tube even though it's compulsory. The fact is, the virus doesn't spread of its own accord ? people spread the virus. Also, the virus hasn't just magically disappeared. it's still out there and it's still as dangerous as it was in March and April.
If I lived in a little village or market town in the shire counties where maybe the risk wasn't so high then there may be more leeway, but in London there are too many people, many living under the radar for whatever reason and many, many more who only think of themselves and feel no responsibility towards others. So my attitude is to look after my needs. it's not a principle. it's not about ?obeying? nor do I feel 'they? are 'telling me what to do?. I'm an intelligent woman. I take my information from the people who have medical and scientific expertise, not from newspapers or from the government and certainly not from social media. I make my decisions accordingly. Everyone else is free to do their own research and make their own decisions. I do what I feel is right for me. Remember. I live in inner London where life is often chaotic and there is very little social cohesion. It may well be different elsewhere.
On my recent tube journeys, most people have been wearing masks.
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But most shop workers don't where masks. Neither do they seem to be bothered about social distancing.
This government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. It's just another Boris balls up.
Sorry for the swearing 🤬
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Not if you are claustrophobic.
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they are phaffing as usual. Shall we/not have to wear masks? Boris is obviously waiting for messages from on high otherwise, make the bl&&&y decision.
As for testing: well Matt Hancock apparently achieved the numbers per day but how many are aware that those tests were sent to the US or Germany for processing; as well as how many were lost. My sister's Home had 15 Staff tested by the NHS - 7 of the results have never turned up, 2 were lost for days, 1 turned up in the GP Surgery ........ probably due to the number of tests having been achieved for that particular day. Not that I'm cynical .......
Also the Chinese and many in Asia wear masks routinely: it got *them* where exactly :-\
Good article by Allison Pearson last week - stating more or less what my sister and I have been saying since mid-March . But more eloquently. Obviously ...........
In England it is essential to wear a mask on public transport. Apart from the driver ........
Northampton, Kettering and Bedford have the highest continual death rate ..............
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Anyone know when we are getting the Track and Trace app.
Another success story, not.
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I'm sorry Folklass, I laughed out loud when I read your post.
Take a look at the NHS website at the symptoms of claustrophobia.
As someone who has has it all my life I can assure you that no mask is suitable.
I have a collection to prove it.
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I like the idea of the visor-types - which can be tarted up at Halloween and again at C.mas ;-) and can be wiped down!
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I mentioned the lack of a Track and Trace app previously. Do you think the mask wearing idea is to mask (sorry) the failure there.
Most of the Asian countries that wear masks also have excellent Track and Trace apps. Which is the most beneficial I wonder.
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Perhaps it's a precursor to reducing the acceptable social distance. The only way to keep yourself safe with a mask is to get a medical grade one that the virus can't pass through. Perhaps if they were made available to the public more people would wear them to protect themselves.
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I'm with you sheila,they say you MUST wear them in shops but hey,you're ok in a pub or a restaurant or cafe,it's all tosh,it's the government wanting to look like they're DOING something but they don't actually know what.
Did anyone see the scientist on sky news this morning? He says yes to masks when travelling and like him if working in hospitals with long term contact but he thought in shops when you only have fleeting contact,he didn't see the point. I hate that we are going to be forced to wear them,in Tesco today there were only a few people wearing them,so generally I don't think people really want to,if the virus was going to rocket,it would have done so by now.Like shady,I hate anything near my face,don't even wear tight collars as I hate it,also hot flushes and masks just don't go :'(
There has also been the argument that the Government is introducing masks as a reassurance to encourage people to return to going shopping and boost the economy. With me it will have the opposite effect. It will remove any enjoyment from browsing in shops and I will just go in and out as quickly as possible for a specific item. They will get considerably less spending from me.
Wearing a mask doesn't give me claustrophobia but I hate the feeling of something covering my face and getting hot with it. Also i can't read facial expression on someone's face. Yes this last bit could occasionally be an advantage if I want to smirk or giggle at them ;D but the cons far outweigh the advantages.
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Jaypo I'm with you I'm stressing about maybe having to wear a mask & I only go to the supermarket once a week. I want to eventually get my haircut but need a mask. My problem it took me 4 hours of searching to find a mask to fit my pretty small face, all adult ones are way too big, some childrens ones were too big & odd one too small, i was getting so upset when I eventually found one that should fit.
I do feel our lives are being very do this, do that, can't do that etc
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I've been wearing an N99 mask for ages. I have to. I cycle and breathing in car fumes was killing me. I also have claustrophobia. You get used to it. Desensitization techniques are helpful. I now wear the mask to protect others, on the rare occasions I come into contact with people. I hope the government stops sending mixed messages soon and encourages folks to think in terms of how together we can make a difference.
Interesting article in today's Guardian about how much worse pollution makes C-19.
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they haven't got a clue ........... :-\ .......
Also men with beards cannot wear the usual buy-over-the-counter mask. It does nowt!
Love it Folklass ;D. that would be blueberry then?
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:whist: that's a bit of a meander - not that I would know. Of course :-X :P
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Yeah. Right :D
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Definitely too late :rofl:
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Oh - not found those. Yet ;D
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Looks like his under pants ...........
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They don't cover his face though :-\ that would be a burka, surely ::)
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I think it’s all bullshit. Make us wear masks for fleeting visits to the shops with minimal contact, if any but you can go and sit in the pub with dozens of others for hours? Explain that to me?
I’d quite happily do it if the rules were consistent but it makes no sense to me.
I drove through town last night and the behaviour outside the pubs was ridiculous. Everyone drunk and hugging etc. Alcohol and social distancing doesn’t work.
So Boris, sort that out before you make us wear masks in the shops.
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The government think that if masks are introduced it will encourage people to go back out shopping. I am not convinced by this argument at all. I suspect people who are scared to go shopping now, still won't. But people like me, who have been shopping, no longer will. It will be interesting to see how the numbers pan out in Scotland.
I have to say that when I went shopping in Canterbury last week, the shops I went into one had a handful of customers. If people are scared to shop I really don't see what difference a mask will make.
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I don’t like wearing a mask but if it helps to bring infection rates down I am happy to do it. I sat in a first aid course for two weeks running, 6 hours, all of us wearing a mask. I feel claustrophobic and uncomfortable but also feel it is a public duty.
I am sure you are glad surgeons and healthcare workers are happy to feel uncomfortable for your safety.
mask wearing will not protect you but will reduce the risk of you infecting somebody else. I see it as basic good manners and respect for other people, however uncomfortable it may be.
When I wear a mask in public:
I want it to be known that I'm educated enough to know that I could be asymptomatic and spread the virus unknowingly.
No, I don't ′′ live in fear ′′ of the virus; I just want to be part of the solution, not the problem.
I don't feel like the ′′ government is controlling me ". I feel like an adult contributing to society and I wish others would too.
The world isn't about me. It's not just about me and my comfort.
If we could all live thinking about others, the whole world would be a better place.
Wearing a mask doesn't make me weak, scared, stupid even ′′ controlled ". It makes me considerate.
When you think about how you look, how uncomfortable it is or what other people think about you, imagine someone close - a child, a father, a mother, a grandfather, an aunt or uncle - wheezing to breathe, choking In a ventilator, alone, without any family allowed on their bedside.
Ask yourself if at least you can do it for them.
If we all wore a mask, this thing could be got under control much quicker. Imagine if in the second world war people said “ I hate being in the dark, I am going to keep my lights on in the blackout”
I saw a post on Facebook that said “If you find wearing a mask uncomfortable, you will really hate being on a ventilator!”
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on another note, you might find this both encouraging and interesting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-53369103
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Donnadoobie, if I could wear a mask without the risk of a debilitating panic attack I would. The fact that I can't means I WILL NOT shop.
It's not a question of being uncomfortable for me, or feeling a bit claustrophobic. It's about being claustrophobic and having to deal with that. Having dealt with it for most of my life I had pretty much got it under control, in the last few years. However, wearing a mask reignited the fear and a don't indeed to make a habit of it.
Perhaps you should do some research on claustrophobia, as it might make you a bit more understanding. For me it's a choice between having a panic attack, or not having one. Simple as that.
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The daft thing is I will still be able to go into a pub, coffee shop or restaurant, mask free, but not into a chemist. No logic.
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Never worn a mask so unsure of what it will be like.
The shops are definitely getting busier, not back to how they used to be but busier.
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For years France has banned all face coverings ........ ? racist ? or practice to identify people?
I like your thought pattern Donnadoobie - :thankyou:
I don't like being controlled at this stage. How was it that the 'experts' kept changing their minds :-\ and where will the money made in Fines go? I can see there being a rush on masks ............. ::)
I think it will cover all outlets - as cafes etc. are in essence, 'shops'. They trade. They sell items.
There should be a Public Enquiry over the whole issue, going back to November 2019.
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Yep. Many kids go down with bugs because they aren't allowed to play in the dirt! All Germs have the potential to kill but C-19 seems particularly virulent even now. But masks didn't help in China! and we need to be told the truth. Too many Cooks etc..
I have a pretty one somewhere, must dig it out ;-). I had been saving it for 'best' ....... However, staff don't have to wear them ........... :-\
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There is no logic in making masks mandatory in shops but not in pubs where people spend more time talking and as pictures have shown, drinkers just acting as though there is no virus. The inconsistency of it really annoys me.
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I bounced my 'mask' thread 8)
So how did AIDs emerge? Due to over vaccination? Our immune systems not being able to cope with the unknown? Add to that people being mobile and it's an accident waiting to happen. Add to that the immense social media input - true or not. When I was a kid no doubt some died of measles or became blind but we didn't learn about them unless it was local.
Isolation hospitals were useful too!
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Donnadoobie - yes!
The excess deaths count in England and Wales over 5 year average for year to date (3rd July) is something like 54K. However it's not just about stats. It's about the nature of this disease, it's about people, how they are suffering and have suffered, how at the moment there is no cure and no vaccine, and the lasting damage to the body that may also occur.
How dare they tell us what to do? Our whole lives are governed by legislation most of which goes unchallenged. these are exceptional times.
Yes the Govt is C***, incompetent, indecisive, poor at communication etc etc, and some decisions apparently illogical but as Donnadoobie says - even if just this one measure helps to slow the spread of the virus then it is worth a bit of discomfort, and of course those who get panic attacks rather than feeling a bit claustrophobic and those with breathing problems - should be exempt.
Let's not get sidetracked with AIDS....
Hurdity x
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Yes, I may well be exempt but that won't stop abuse. That's why I shall stay home.
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It's not sidetracking but a meander. No one is minimising deaths from C-19.......... we are allowed free speech without being slammed for it. Despite Trump buying up two sets of medication a few weeks ago, the medication that is used in the NHS has a good success rate, pity I can't remember the name of the drug ::) and is also cheaper than those that America have access to. What we aren't seeing are the people that recover and are discharged unless they have been extremely ill.
I still wonder how Boris has bounced back :-\ when I read that many people are struggling with breathing difficulties and fatigue after being discharged 3/4 months ago.
Also what annoys me is that these won't be treated as clinical waste and will go into landfill. Also that someone can impose a fine unless I can prove that I have a medical condition but that is between me and my Clinicians.
Watching the BBC News - might give us more info.?
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It's about hand washing in the main. HOT SOAPY WATER! as well as gels after leaving a shop and don't forget to wipe the steering wheel and door handles and boot!
Which research and funded by whom ? So many bits of research are appearing but none really believable, it will be years B4 we find out what might/not help. Also, how long does C-19 live on surfaces ......... depends on what I read on which particular day ::)
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After seeing what my OH went through, and the repercussions of it now, if and when, I go out, I WILL be wearing a mask. ( I've been mulling it over for a few days)
Tbh, whether they work or not, I'd rather wear one than not.
Thing is, we don't know how this virus is going to,affect us, if we do catch it, it's like Russian roulette. So anything that helps, whether it's known to help, or psychology it helps us, it has to be a good thing.
A little tip, if the elastic hurts behind your ears, cut one end, and tie it behind your neck. I did this earlier, and it became tighter on my face too.
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Yes Teresa , and then there is the sanitiser.
Go into a shop use sanitiser
Come out of a shop use sanitiser.
Load the car use sanitiser
Eat a snack out, use sanitiser before and after.
Come home wash hands
Unpack shopping, wash hands
Put shopping away, wash hands
Then wash table the shopping was unpacked onto.
Exhausting
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Bloody well is isn't it Shady.
Our simple days of going shopping and eating out have gone, it's a pain in the bum! 🤦🏼♀️
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Yep - as well as hearing aids and mouth spray: we will all be deaf and hoarse by C.mas :D
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He caught it Folklass.
Ended up with double pneumonia, in hospital for 11 days, on oxygen, 1 day away from going into ICU. Then by the grace of the gods, he started to respond to the antibiotics.
Terrible, terrible time he had, we all did. x
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Keeping distance = shouting
Shouting = deafness ;D
Do keep up ;D ........ :whist:
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I believe that it should be taught in school for exactly these situations. I had to work my dogs with sign language for 4 months after Mum upset me a lot in the 1990s :'(. I was so angry that I lost my voice.
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Keeping distance = shouting
Shouting = deafness ;D
How on earth does shouting cause deafness?
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Yes, Folklass, he's ok now thank god. A little forgetful with things, and still draws a deep breath occasionally, if he does too much too quickly, but he made it. 🥰 Back at work too! Although behind a mask and visor takes its toll after a 10 hour shift. xx
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Depends how loud you shout! My gobs enough to make anyone deaf! 🙉 😆😂
Hi Cazikins. 👋🏼 You ok honey? x
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agreed jillydoll - I have a 40 acre voice ;D
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Interesting statistics, but what has that to do with a pandemic and wearing masks.
Posts have been removed. My remark was relevant but I've now edited it at the request of a member as it subsequently read out of context.
Hurdity
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It's about hand washing in the main. HOT SOAPY WATER! as well as gels after leaving a shop and don't forget to wipe the steering wheel and door handles and boot!
Which research and funded by whom ? So many bits of research are appearing but none really believable, it will be years B4 we find out what might/not help. Also, how long does C-19 live on surfaces ......... depends on what I read on which particular day ::)
This research I posted earlier or yesterday and on the mask thread earlier today:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now
If you read it you will see who funded it. Research is not about belief but evidence, which changes as time goes on obviously and therefore conclusions may also change. Yes of course research will go on for years but there is a lot being carried out now globally on all fronts which is vital to understand, tackle the spread, treat and hopefully prevent this disease from having an even worse outcome.
"It's about hand-washing in the main"... what's about hand-washing? If you think that is the primary way to stop the spread of the virus then no, as far as I understand, it's not, but of course will help. Social distancing, reducing our social interactions and yes masks will be far more effective, as well as making sure that we can modify preventable risk factors to minimise the impact the disease might have, eg reducing weight (fat) and therefore Type 2 diabetes, and generally making sure we are as fit and healthy as we can possibly be given our circumstances.
Hurdity x
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Depends how loud you shout! My gobs enough to make anyone deaf! 🙉 😆😂
Hi Cazikins. 👋🏼 You ok honey? x
I'm good thanks Matey :-* :-*, don't get on here as much as I use to, but try & check up on you & the other naughty ladies as often as I can ;D ;D
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Just seen an expert on BBC News channel, who advises WHO on the use of face masks.
He said that the evidence is still inconclusive as to there effectiveness as different trials have produced different results.
He also said that although he supports their introduction, they will only be of benefit it they are the right sort and worn properly. He didn't think that at the moment people were doing this, and a lot more education was needed for them to be safe and effective.
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Hand washing has always been the best way of destroying C-19. Long B4 masks were suggested. Hot soapy water, washing hands for 2 mins and clean towels. The idea being is to drown the virus as it breaks down the outer skin of the virus. Add to that regular use of hand sanitiser of over 75% alcohol incase 1 has touched a surface where the bug might lurk has been recommended from March.
Social distancing wasn't suggested for weeks. Now it's been reduced - economically driven, not necessary good for the public. If necessary now then the wearing of masks should have been instigated by April.
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Discuss: ;D 'children under 11 not required to wear masks' - but we are told that children are the hidden carriers :-\. Get them back into school where they can keep the rest of us safe?
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I suspect a 2m long pole with a spike on the end of it will offer more protection than any cloth or paper mask. We're now 4 months in so why hasn't production been ramped up so that we could all buy a medical grade one that will actually protect us. IMO this is all about getting people back in the shops. They have yet to tell us why it's safe to be in a pub or restaurant without a mask but not in a shop. Until they do (which IMO is impossible) few people will believe there is any science behind it.
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hi! I see that a bar tender has put an electric 'fence' wire around his Bar to discourage people to linger ;D
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I would personally put social distancing high, higher than soap and water. If someone's too close to you and coughs over you in the street, it's probably a bit late to walk home and wash your hands for protection.
Well actually that's something else that chap said. He was concerned that social distancing and hygiene should not be sidelined by mask wearing. All equally important apparently.
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Yes I agree. But then Boris has to worry about the economy and paying back the huge amount we've borrowed whereas Scotland doesn't. Most of more dubious moves are in an effort to get the economy working.
electric fence CLKD, now there's an idea. We don't have an electric cattle prod but perhaps I should buy one...
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Good point FannyB - I enjoyed lockdown .......... ;-).
I feel we are being rushed back to 'normal': and normal it will be, like after 9/11 : too soon :-\.
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We've just bought some more. If they are made mandatory soon, they might be hard to get hold of, just like toilet rolls were before. 🤷♀️
Aren't they saying it's £100 fine if your caught without one? Plus, shops can refuse you entry if your not wearing one.
Yes, we didn't wear them before because we were in lockdown.
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I would personally put social distancing high, higher than soap and water. If someone's too close to you and coughs over you in the street, it's probably a bit late to walk home and wash your hands for protection.
Well actually that's something else that chap said. He was concerned that social distancing and hygiene should not be sidelined by mask wearing. All equally important apparently.
Yes these are more of a priority for me than face masks. If a place looks crowded, I won't go in at all. Just having a mask doesn't give me much confidence really.
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After reading the last few pages of this thread, I'll put my two pennies worth in.
I really don't like the idea of wearing a mask but I will obviously, but what has got my goat up is that shop assistants don't have to wear one what's that all about?!!
I can' use any hand sanitiser my hands become red, itchy, raw & bleeding, I was in so much pain for days before my sister told me to stop using it, as she & her children all suffer the same.
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I noted that the screens have been moved in our village shop so the staff are in full waft of any germ that happens their way :-\
YG - have you tried a good barrier cream which you can wash off on returning home? Alcohol is drying. I can't use Fairy Liquid ........ if it cleans grease off plates ?
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CKLD No, I just don't use hand sanitiser
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Have you tried that hand cream with anti bac in it YG?
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Or even just Hand Cream Yorkie. 🤣😂🤣. ⬆️
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Yes Jillydoll, to help soothe the soreness but was having to put it on every 5 mins
Littleminnie didn't know you could get handcream with anti bac, now that would be useful
Luckily anywhere that has asked me to use I've just explained and it's not a problem.
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Yes it a new one from Vaseline
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What's that? The hand HAND cream? 🤣😂🤣😂 ( sorry, couldn't resist)
Here's my hand, 🤛🏼 Go on, slap it! 😫
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New treatment for covid patients, which reduces the need for ventilation by about 80%.
Interferon Beta.
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Bought some washable masks from Amazon. Hope they shrink a bit in the wash otherwise I won’t be able to see where I’m going 😏
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Interferon is an interesting treatment, used with hepatitis, has some seriously unpleasant side effects, like drug resistant depression.
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Bought some washable masks from Amazon. Hope they shrink a bit in the wash otherwise I won’t be able to see where I’m going 😏
Littleminnie I had to buy children's size, one fits perfectly the other, the elastic is too short, so teenagers GF is going to sew longer lengths of elastic on for me. All the adult ones would've been way too big on me, as hubby's ones were enormous!
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A bit of a rant, I go to the supermarket & butchers once a week. I went to Tesco on Monday all the staff on shop floor were wearing masks, but I got to till lady wasn't. Yes they have a screen along the side where you briefly pass, but where you are packing at the end no screen and they are not two metres away, so no protection for the customer.
At the butchers no screens and staff are not wearing masks, what's is the point!! >:(
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A bit of a rant, I go to the supermarket & butchers once a week. I went to Tesco on Monday all the staff on shop floor were wearing masks, but I got to till lady wasn't. Yes they have a screen along the side where you briefly pass, but where you are packing at the end no screen and they are not two metres away, so no protection for the customer.
At the butchers no screens and staff are not wearing masks, what's is the point!! >:(
Exactly.
Lots of people not wearing them probably, and also continuously touching them. Apparently that's a very good way of giving yourself the virus.
What is the point?
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Our butchers aren't covered either but it doesn't bother me. They move around so quickly and there is a draught throughout the shop. ;-).
No protection for the lady on the till either ?
Our GP staff don't wear masks but insist on patients as well as us having to use a medicated cloth to wipe door handles, so I did a thorough clean this morning ;D - I soaked a cloth and did the handles and letter box ...........
Places across the UK going into lockdown again. We don't know if we are riding a kite or flying a bike :o. A good reason to keep buying in our village shop and not venture too far where there might be people ;)
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Pubs or "other activities" in England may need to close to allow schools to reopen next month, a scientist advising the government has said.
It's getting ridiculous now. Children are known as silent spreaders. Adults are known to think that current rules don't apply to them ...... why should my activities be interrupted in order for kids to go to school? How much relaxation of guidelines has been in order to get industries back to work ........... wishing guidelines? How many industries will go under completely if changes continue to be made?
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How many times can they keep opening and shutting things so people don't know when they can open their business, like the ones who were prepared to open today but can't. I know the virus is serious but so are people's livelihoods, and it's all getting more and more stressful.
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I have got to the point of total disbelief in anything the government says, and their reasoning. Following the science is just an excuse to blame the scientists.
Me and mine are now quietly getting on with things and doing what we think is best for us.
A total and complete 'balls up'. >:(
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Hello ladies
I agree that the official response to the crisis has been woeful and I decided some time ago to listen to reputable sources and behave in a sensible manner.
In the supermarkets I use most till workers wear masks but one lady doesn't . When I asked her why she said they made her glasses steam up. I got the impression she had other reasons and it maybe that staff can refuse to wear them provided it is at their own risk.
Fortunately there have been very few COVID cases where I live but I imagine the more people you know who have had the disease, the more cautious you are.
I have experimented with a few types of fabric masks and today I took delivery of one made from linen. It is very comfortable and feels much easier to breathe through than the cotton ones.
Wishing you well ladies.
K.
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Chris Whitty said 'We have probably reached the limit of what we can do', and today i read that pubs may need to be shut to allow schools to open in September. They might make their bleedin' minds up one day!
We went to Wells for the day on Wednesday and people on the beach were well spread out and it all felt ok. I'm glad we didn't wait until Friday to go because i'm sure it wouldn't have felt quite the same.
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Wells Next The Sea - one can soon get out of the way of others ;-). Characteristic beach huts. Pine trees still there or were they washed away in the storms years ago?
I think it far more important to get companies back to work and getting them stable economically, than getting children into school. The way to do it in my opinion is that anyone with children who require schooling, are told by Boris not to visit public spaces but to isolate as much as possible: no pubs., crowded beaches, play parks, MacDonalds ......... sometimes 1 has to point out the best way of keeping others safe ? If companies go bust children may find themselves without a parent who may commit suicide, which may lead to losing the roof over their heads :-\ - = more stress on an already overstretched social problem.
I don't get the connection between pubs and schools :-\
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Trees still there, CLKD. We park in the car park right near them, up and down the steps and then you are on the beach. I love those beach huts! :)
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Phew, tnx. People do get cut off by the Tide there ........ a few years ago DH and I stayed in a B&B so enjoyed several days there, walking from the town to the beach which we hadn't done previously. Small car park still there. Lifeboat there. We love Holt too ;-)
Were people wearing masks?
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Phew, tnx. People do get cut off by the Tide there ........ a few years ago DH and I stayed in a B&B so enjoyed several days there, walking from the town to the beach which we hadn't done previously. Small car park still there. Lifeboat there. We love Holt too ;-)
Were people wearing masks?
[/quote
]Yes, the lifeboat is still there and there are always lots of lifeguards about. There is a small car park on the quayside, a couple of larger ones as you drive into town and then the one we usually use, which is right next to the beach, although this one does fill up very quickly.
People were obviously wearing them in shops, but not many were wearing them just walking around.
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It was there that we saw a plant growing - name escapes me - oh, sea buckthorn - for the 1st time.
Wonder what tricks Boris will announce today. Obviously has no idea how the rest of the World operates in order to pay the bills!
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It was there that we saw a plant growing - name escapes me - oh, sea buckthorn - for the 1st time.
Sea buckthorn: the berries taste quite nice. They can ferment when overripe, and the birds get drunk from eating them.
JP x
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Bright orange berries? Pale grey spikey 'leaves'? Would make good hedging ;-)
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That's the one. Saw a lot on the coast in N Ireland years ago, nice to nibble on as you wander about.
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But U don't know whether a fly has peed on the berries :o
Any1 gone into isolation again ........ it's getting hard to listen to Boris who alters his mind so often: driven from behind?
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Hello ladies.
I see from the lunchtime news that testing kits will soon be available that can detect infection in 90 minutes and another device looks at COVID DNA so a person can learn if they have already had the disease.
We clearly need to find ways of living with the virus and I think the above developments are very promising.
Meanwhile the safest thing is to avoid getting the disease in the first place is.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Apparently they want the one 50s to isolate now :-\ .......... :bang: well they'll have to fight me for my date of birth. Apparently there is likely to be a test which returns results in 90 mins., that's been available in the sporting world for months so it's nice to see it being rolled out to the public. Now we need to learn how long the incubation period might be because someone might test negative 1 day but within a short while, be a carrier or infected.
Thinking of the F1 driver who sent to Mexico and tested positive last week prior to the F1 Grand Prix: was he already a carrier, had he become infected on the plane, when he was in Mexico ...... whilst medical details should be confidential, by finding out the time-line of a specific person should be useful to the overall picture of how C-19 travels.
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Hello ladies.
I see from the lunchtime news that testing kits will soon be available that can detect infection in 90 minutes and another device looks at COVID DNA so a person can learn if they have already had the disease.
We clearly need to find ways of living with the virus and I think the above developments are very promising.
Meanwhile the safest thing is to avoid getting the disease in the first place is.
Take care ladies.
K.
Good news Kathleen.
The virus will not be going away but needs to be managed. Quicker testing will be a great help.
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Who do they think is going to do the jobs the over 50s do and who is supposed to bring all the groceries while we are all stuck in. If they think we are all so decrepit they should pay the state pension to all over 60s. They are really annoying me now!
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Oh well said suzysunday, I hadn't thought of the Pension aspect. The goal posts have been moved so many times >:(
Sadly, I no longer look 21 ;D so maybe a berker might be useful after all? Wish I could spell :-\
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Who do they think is going to do the jobs the over 50s do and who is supposed to bring all the groceries while we are all stuck in. If they think we are all so decrepit they should pay the state pension to all over 60s. They are really annoying me now!
It's just a rumour and Ministers are saying it won't happen.
It wouldn't work anyway. Just more press hype.
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Press Hype has been followed through on many occasions and since when have Ministers had a say in any of this?
Same as shutting Pubs so that kids can return to School .......... it's more important to get businesses up and running!
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Now Care Homes are having to wait until Sept. for testing kits >:(
One Scientist on ITV News earlier explained that as long as the whole supply chain for C-19 tests can be obtained, they should be able to maintain and eventually increase the amount of weekly testing, but he isn't holding his breath.
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So there's no need to shut public spaces then or confine the over 50s - we need to steer clear of anything under the age of 80 ? ;-)
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Coronavirus: Safety concerns halt use of 50 million NHS masks
U really could't write it :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Did anyone watch Chris and Zandd last night ? Quite informative and moving.
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I had it on in the background, very moving
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It would seem that many, unreported patients, after discharge from ICU are sent to a rehabilitation ward to learn to walk, talk, swallow, breath - 1 problem is that the thigh muscles atrophy really fast so over-all body strength disappears. It would seem too that strokes are a side effect of the virus, with swelling in the brain as the body fights it.
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It's in a sandwich making factory for M&S of over 2,000 workers ......... Northampton, Kettering and Bedford have been hot spots all along so why they don't shut Norhtampton down sooner rather than later? What R they waiting for!
The Company concerned have apparently employed their own testing Company - it's a family who tested positive initially. As the Managing Director said to the Press however many guidelines we use in the Company we are not responsible for family behaviour out side
Many of these employers historically have whole families working for them. Mining industry, catering companies, factories, shoe makers .......
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You really couldn't make it up ;D
1 report today states that it will be over in 2 years
Another states that we will have to live with C-19 for ever - I couldn't be bothered to read either ::)
The Factory in Northampton has been closed for 2 weeks for a deep clean :-\ why wait this long? 299 people tested positive out of over 2,500 employees. It will be interesting to see if any other results are reported to the Press.
And what's with teachers and pupils testing +ve when they have been in School for less than 2 weeks :-\
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Another school in Scotland closed as most of the Staff affected by C-19 and a few children :-\
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I wouldn't panic Teresa.
Schools in Scandinavia had a very short lockdown, and it hasn't caused a surge.
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It's happening all over the UK. One school has children with special needs to have more staff, all of who have been tested positive - but HOW! Were they not tested during the last few months?
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Not sure what you mean CLKD?
Taz x :-\
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Hello ladies.
In Scotland a newly opened school found nineteen teachers tested positive and the school has closed again (I think I've got that right but don't quote me on it lol.)
COVID cases are likely to increase when the schools in England return and how those situations will be managed is anyone's guess.
Take care all.
K.
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Our schools open in two weeks and the provincial government has said elementary schools will have all kids back at once (no staggered starts) and no cap on classroom size...wth? They want to cohort the kids to reduce risk of transmission, all kids over the age of 7 will have to wear masks as well as physically distance (6 ft). Does this sound like a safe plan? Of course parents have the choice not to send their kids and continue to use remote learning but not all parents can stay home any longer. I work in an elementary school and I am very concerned that this plan won't be safe at all! Other school boards are modifying their re-entry plans to suit there own needs and demands of the parents. Things keep changing on a daily basis so it might look different come Sept. 8th.
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My two go back next Thursday. Apparently it will year group bubbles, so 300-350 kids in each bubble. The school serves a massive rural area, so the vast majority of kids travel to school by bus, which will have all years mixed on them. Makes no sense to me, none of it!!!
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My two go back next Thursday. Apparently it will year group bubbles, so 300-350 kids in each bubble. The school serves a massive rural area, so the vast majority of kids travel to school by bus, which will have all years mixed on them. Makes no sense to me, none of it!!!
That really doesn’t make sense, does it Barnacle ::)
A bit like when I visited a nursery for work and the Manager said how hard they were working to keep children in separate bubbles with an allocated team of staff - only to find the parents let all the children play together at a nearby park when they left the nursery :-\
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The school have said that they can wear masks if they want to, but it is not compulsary. That could all change though, as usually Boris seems to follow what Sturgeon says.
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Christmas is going to be interesting this year. Might be in full lockdown by then.
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Christmas is going to be interesting this year. Might be in full lockdown by then.
I can't see a 'full lockdown' happening again. The first one has damaged the economy and another one would just about destroy it.
There has been a marked change of attitude, amongst our social circle. Even those who were passionate about following the rules are now showing discontent. I don't think people trust the government advice so much anymore.
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The Covid testing system is in meltdown.
The Tracing App is still not here and is months late.
Unemployment is going up .
Business are going bust.
Serious non Covid illnesses are not being treated.
Sweden is doing very well though.
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I think it will depend how bad it gets.
The problem is in winter that there are so many cold/flu bugs about that people won’t know if they have Covid or not, so a lot more people will be going for the test. Then we will be in a mess because we won’t be able to cope.
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The system can't cope now.
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No it can’t. I can see it getting a lot worse though.
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It's all really depressing and I can't see any improvement for ages.
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The latest case count in my province is over 300 new cases. Just a few weeks ago we were well under 100. People are going to the wrong places and with too many people. Strip clubs are the latest to see new cases.
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Not surprised!
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I doubt that many will have 'flu. We are wearing masks in public places and not socialising. :-\. Has anyone had a cold over the last 6 months?
It's time that the Health Service was up and running and that Nightingale Hospitals took over C-19, however, the Health Service hasn't enough staff ..........
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Is anyone certain how long a person might be a carrier?
How long B4 symptoms appear once infected?
How long 1 remains able to infect the next person?
Otherwise testing shows on the day who has C-19 ........ either side the results might be wrong?
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Can't answer the questions but, when my OH had it, he started to feel unwell on the Sunday morning, by the afternoon, he felt worse, so I told him to go to bed, he did, next day, full blown, flu symptoms. Like he'd caught the flu bug, twice over. If you see what I mean.
Now, he must've had that inside, for at least a few days, (?) we'd shared the same bed, ok, not always together, but in the same sheets etc, and I didn't catch it.......OR, I HAVE caught it and showed no symptoms. 🤷♀️
He was like that, for about a week, flu symptoms, only worse than flu, the sweating was something else, and for most of it, he slept. I woke him to drink water, or else he'd have been asleep and dehydrated. He was delirious, sometimes talking a load rubbish. Then after about a week or so, he sat up, said he felt different somehow, and we thought great, he's beat it, only to go down hill the next day with the start of pneumonia. xx
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From what I have read, people are infectious for around 7 days. The virus can still be shed after this time, but mostly at levels too low to cause infection, or else they shed dead virus cells. If it is going to progress to pneumonia, it usually happens around day 5-7.
People who are asymptomatic have very low levels of the virus so also are not good spreaders.
As for positive Covid tests, it is believed (and this is a conservative estimate) around 20% are false positives.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviru
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-many-covid-diagnoses-are-false-positives-
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Tnx both. The World remains in a Learning Curve ::). I have more masks than I know what to do with ;D .......
How is OH now jillydoll?
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I read that one can be infected and for 2 days before symptoms begin, you can be infectious. Also understood that those that are asymptomatic are not big spreaders, but so many conflictings bits and bobs, one just does not know what is what. :-\
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Morning Cassie - that's what is confusing me. :-\
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I don't think we know definitively. Very likely someone will be infectious before they show symptoms, that's the same as many diseases. The original outbreak in French ski resort was started by someone who asymptomatic but he managed to spread it to other people.
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..... and now the resort is being sued ? need to read the article, I think it's in the pile 'still to read'.
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He's doing good Thanx CLKD.
He does get very tired, but he works night shifts, and maybe his age too makes it like that. 🤷♀️
He's had a chest scan, but still waiting for results as the consultant was on holiday.
He's more forgetful than before the illness too, but that's getting better. x
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Tnx for the update. Tiredness is to be expected, he was very ill and it's early days!
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So UK Pubs are to shut earlier - does the Virus take an evening off then? How is that likely to work? Surely it is important to keep distance, wear masks, wipe down surfaces regularly ......... talk about making it up as they go along.
The Guardian quoted a scientist in today's paper "Who didn't want to give their name" - a 1st year Chemstry student then? :-\. No paper should quote anyone unless they name the person and print references :bang: :bang: :bang:
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I have posted below a couple of links, with some very interesting information. I offer no opinion but will leave it up to others to think what they will. The letter includes a lot of information on many things we have discussed on the forum, including, transmission, the immune system, lockdown, masks etc., It is quite long, but worth the read.
Be sure to examine the list on signatories to assure yourselves that this is not fake news, or any sort of conspiracy led communication.
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/signatories/
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Did your response get removed and reposted :-\ ? Anyway -
It's pretty much saying what many health professionals have said across the UK and what sensible members of the public feel. Particularly the relevance/not of how protective masks might be.
SAGE 'experts' informed the UK government in June [I think] that there is unlikely to be a 2nd wave of C-19. It is obvious that the more people tested the more will show up as either having been infected or not.
Interesting earlier this week and damn I didn't keep the article >:( - that more people died from 'flu and pneumonia at the start of Sept than of C-19. Might have to fish that paper out of the recycling bin B4 Wed.. There was also a small 6-7 line paragraph somewhere last week telling us how many people remain in hospital being treated with ventilation - that should have been on the front pages!
'flu will happen, it's an annual event. That isn't to say that people will catch it - why will we if we are masked up? - or that people will die from it. In reality that first wave probably took off many that were already vulnerable i.e. the first layer of non-survivors which normally we wouldn't hear about. This government is taking away liberties by feeding fear instead of allowing for common sense.
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Thanks for the link shadyglade, fascinating reading.
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If anyone is has the time, have a google of Dr Malcolm Kendrick. His posts are a bit long and involved but some interesting points.
I agree with what he says about there being no proper debates in the press, that it’s all one sided - they seem to relish bad news and want to create hysteria.
Who knows what to believe anymore!
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Your right Blot.👍
The links I have given come from his blog.
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Sorry Shadyglade I didn’t read your post properly but exactly this. Imagine the reaction if stuff like this was reported in the news? I fear there would be even less compliance but perhaps that is the true agenda. Keep us in the dark and scare everyone into behaving.
If it’s true though, then it’s so unfair and it’s no wonder we don’t trust the government. They should have a proper debate and not just shut down those with opinions and evidence that contradicts their reasoning.
I don’t know about anyone else but I feel defeated and don’t believe a word the government says any more.
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I agree absolutely.
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I gave up on the Government when 'they' went down with C-19. Where did they get it? It almost seems as though Boris has a different Agenda to the others, plus SAGE not sticking to what they put out ............ although it's a daily learning curve by now there should be a Plan of Campaign? particularly around schools.
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Hancock: Follow Covid rules or they will get tougher
Does any1 else hate the feeling of being bullied :-\ - I realise that a lot is headlines designed to be less than truthful but by now ..........
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There will always be people who think their 'rights' are more important than the lives of the old and vulnerable who will suffer because of their actions. Sorry, but those who are too selfish to think of others need to be told. If it was the 25 year olds who would die I'm sure they'd manage not to breathe over each other in pubs. Blaming the government is a cop out, it's up to every single person to behave responsibly.
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The government blaming the people is a cop out.
The under funding of the NHS for years.
Johnson missing 5 Cobra meetings before lockdown.
Johnson making light of the virus before lockdown.
Worst of all, the failure to implement the report recommendations that resulted from the Cygnus Exercise. They had 4 years to do this but just buried it. Disgraceful.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-did-it-find
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I am re- posting the links I posted earlier, some very interesting information. I offer no opinion but will leave it up to others to think what they will. The letter includes a lot of information on many things we have discussed on the forum, including, transmission, the immune system, lockdown, masks etc., It is quite long, but worth the read.
Be sure to examine the list on signatories to assure yourselves that this is not fake news, or any sort of conspiracy led communication.
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/signatories/
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Early on it was posted in a small article that the Governments met across Europe [a jolly at the Tax payer's expense] to discuss the next Pandemic. Which was going to erupt eventually. Apparently they met in 2014 and again in 2017. Etc., etc., etc..
We put Governments into place so that the man in the street can get on with Life/work/raising a family allowing the MPs to sort out matters? They have access to issues that we don't get told about until the horse has bolted. Probably issues that are boring.
I protect those around me but have no trust in those in crowded places.
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I’m not denying the potential seriousness of this virus for some people but I’m sick of all the crap in the press and on social media. The government are far from truthful and it’s unfair blaming the young people when they were actively encouraged to go out and spend in the pubs and restaurants. I did think it was a big mistake opening pubs etc all together as quickly as they did but it was all about the economy.
Fair enough, protect the vulnerable, but threatening and scaring everyone is unfair. Who wants to live like this?
Please have a read of Shadyglade’s links. Lockdown is just a pause button. Ease things, vastly increase testing and the figures are obviously going to go up. But has there been an equal increase in deaths and hospital admissions? And I work in a hospital so I’m not unaware of how we have been affected.
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More 18-25 year olds are testing positive than any other age group so blaming them would appear to be justified. There hasn't been an increase in hospital admissions or deaths YET. That's because most people in this age group have few symptoms. But if they are infected they are guaranteed to spread it to more vulnerable people in the course of time and then we will see the increase. Sorry you don't want to live like this but perhaps it's time to think of those who won't live at all when they get it. Until we get a vaccine this is the only way to protect them.
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I wouldn't pin my hopes on a vaccine. You could be waiting a very long time.
The virus will do what it does, no matter what. All that has been done is to surpress it. Now the winter is coming, like other seasonal viruses, it is re-emergeing.
It's not a question of not thinking of others. It's about being realistic as to what is possible and what works.
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I am re- posting the links I posted earlier, some very interesting information. I offer no opinion but will leave it up to others to think what they will. The letter includes a lot of information on many things we have discussed on the forum, including, transmission, the immune system, lockdown, masks etc., It is quite long, but worth the read.
Be sure to examine the list on signatories to assure yourselves that this is not fake news, or any sort of conspiracy led communication.
Brilliant article. Thank you for posting. The family have had an in depth around the table discussion tonight about exactly why this isn’t happening here in the U.K. I would never doubt the seriousness of the virus for those who are most vulnerable but it’s starting to concern me very much now how it’s being handled and the confusing and sometimes ludicrous rules being put in place. There are signs that other eminent scientists and medical professionals are being given air time but nowhere near enough to challenge the government.
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/signatories/
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We are no where near Winter . Is anyone reporting 'flu cases in the Press?
Some 'experts' are telling the public that there will not be a surge, others say 'watch out'.
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Interesting article on the BBC News website this morning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649
It explains much better than I can what I have been trying to say.
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Tnx for that!
There's another article too: can't do links but it begins;
Parliament must directly approve any new coronavirus restrictions before they come into force, a leading Conservative MP has told the BBC.
Sir Graham said ministers had "got into the habit of ruling by decree" on the issue, citing the "imposition" of the rule of six limit on social gatherings".
He told Radio 4's Today public opinion was "moving" and the government could not take its backing for granted.
His warning comes as further measures are considered to address rising cases.
. etc..
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from - Herts 'live' -
Chris Whitty government announcement: UK warned of '50,000 Covid-19 cases a day' if trend continues. ...... 'could' is the word to watch in this article.
No one has asked DH or me, our neighbours or any1 in the street if they have had symptoms ....... ? statistics ? again based on what :-\
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We discuss this issue often along our street ;D - personal issues, nope. Pandemic isn't quite the same. It's about distancing down here.
We don't use apps either. Costs too much to find out what I probably don't need to know :D
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Track and trace are overwhelmed. Stands to reason.
Shows how much I know about apps. ;D but they do feel a bit 'big brother' :-\. Doesn't 1 have to be switched onto the internet on a mobile?
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:thankyou:
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Well I can see why this virus is spreading, we were walking back from town past a school, there certainly was no social distancing going on at school gates, we have also found people carry on walking side by side when we were approaching. There are some very selfish people about.
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Any idea where the 'fine' monies go :-\. I understand that many have successfully challenged being fined ...... due to it being illegal until it's been passed by Parliament.
School children are in a bubble aren't they :-\ ? I think that I'm going to hone my elbows and feet B4 shopping ........... ;-)
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It was the parents CKLD!
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The new Track and Trace app comes out tomorrow.
Anyone going to give it a go?
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Same here Yorkie. School over the road, not one parent in a mask. 😡
I'm dreading this next few months.
In our area, we should stick to our own households, no visitors from other households at all,
EXCEPT for, it seems, both our next door neighbours. Everyday, someone is at their houses.
🤷♀️🤦🏼♀️
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Same where I am. Constant stream of visitors at a few places.
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Why can we meet in a public place but not in our homes ::)
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We can meet in our homes can’t we?
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We can meet in our homes can’t we?
Yes, Rule of Six applies. Same for outside.
As far as I know that is. ::)
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Tnx. Can U tell that I'm even more confused ???
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We've supposed to be banded from meeting anyone from other households here in Birmingham. 🤷♀️
That came into effect two weeks ago I think.
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We've supposed to be banded from meeting anyone from other households here in Birmingham. 🤷♀️
That came into effect two weeks ago I think.
That's a shame.
Numbers are still very low here in Kent. Our area is on the high side for the county, a around 10 cases per one hundred thousand, but other areas are as low as one or two cases.
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Apparently a few people have died having tested positive. Whether they were already in hospital isn't clear. If they had other life-limiting conditions: ins't clear.
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Over 6,000 tested positive today. It's getting higher and higher.
And 37 deaths recorded today. :'(
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And we’re not even in winter yet :(
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It will get higher because more people are getting tested! That's the problem with the media ......... and Boris doesn't help by not giving clear information. 2 of those in East Anglia reported as having died, actually died in July!! and details have were released yesterday.
Do we really need to know numbers?
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So Vallance has £600,000 of shares, in a Pharma company, contracted to produce the Covid vaccine.
No conflict of interest then. ::) >:(
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The numbers are rising again here, most people testing positive are under the age of 40. These people have been attending unmonitored social gatherings, and generally hanging out with those outside their bubbles and not following the rules.
There are at least 4 public schools in my town that have at least 1 confirmed case. No schools have closed but I'm afraid it won't be long before it happens.
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Keeping them together ? let it run ............. to see how many actually test positive?
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Local lockdown starts this weekend, by local lockdown the only thing I cannot do is visit family and friends at home but I can meet them in a pub thats already had confirmed cases :-\ and I cannot leave the area unless its for work or school :-\ Its ridiculous having pubs open its where it spreading, 4 pubs have been ordered to deep clean after cases :bang:
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None of it makes any sense to me TH.
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It's crazy TH, you're more likely to get the virus from the pub than at home social distancing.
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Exactly YG :hotflash:
Lockdown sounds dramatic but its a token measure >:(
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I just read an article yesterday about our provincial government is considering cutting back on the list of symptoms for school age children. At this point if a child has a runny nose, they must be sent home and self isolate for 14 days and see the dr. and/or get covid tested. Because the schools are sending every child home with a runny nose, the backlog to get tested is almost a week long. They are also considering taking a sore throat off the list. So if this passes, any child with runny nose or a sore throat is ok to attend school. ::)
I work with kids and we have to screen them every morning (home screening done by parents) and we have to take their temp. We have been told to not allow any child into our school if they have a runny nose or sore throat even if it's a mild cold. I understand that this covid situation is fluid and always changing but I don't understand why they need to take symptoms off the list. You cannot be too careful these days, especially with children.
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It's happening in England, but that then puts parents at a disadvantage - they have to stay home to look after a snotty child even though Boris has told everyone to return to work ::)
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I have had an email from the NHS today, advising me to download the Track and Trace app.
No thanks.
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It's on all the front pages. Wait and Watch me thinks!
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I downloaded it first thing yesterday. I see there's a problem already though for people wanting to advise of negative results
Taz x
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We have a similar app for contact tracing but not everyone is convinced it works, too many variables must be met before it will give you any result. Plus the conspiracy theorists are saying the app will secretly gather your private info even though the government has assured that this is not the case.
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Apparently the UK app is done in figures/letters which become scrambled per person and should be discharged into the ether after 14 days. What happens in those 14 days is anyone's guess - I have read that the scrambling happens a few times per person ........ it's all Double Dutch to me!
1 person gave her details to a restaurant as per C-19 requirements - the next day she was sent a text asking 'how did we do?'. :-\
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Are you sure it was a text and not the usual message when your phone has automatically logged in somewhere? I get these all of the time. It says something like 'Know Sainsbury's. .how did we do?'
Taz x :-\
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DH has received a text from the NHS an hour ago. I think it's spooky :-\. My mobile isn't modern enough to receive such texts ;D
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Covid cases down for second day in a row. Hopefully not a weekend plip.
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Not in Scotland or Wales ::)
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Covid cases down for second day in a row. Hopefully not a weekend plip.
I check the government website every day hoping they’ve gone down.
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Panorama report, on the Track and Trace system, BBC 1 tonight.
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The lunchtime news showed hundreds of people in city centres after the pubs closed, these selfish people, do they want a total lockdown again >:(
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Another drop in cases today. Let's hope it's not just because they are not keeping up with the testing. ::)
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They said on the bbc news, the lower figure could be because of the weekend.
So 🤞🏼 It's still down tomorrow.
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everything I have read over the weekend tell me that numbers are up :-\ especially with students!
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Yep. It's getting worse by the day. 😩
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Now students are being told that they can return home. NOOOOOO >:( keep your nasty Germ there!!
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Yep. It's getting worse by the day. 😩
Not everywhere JD.
Really feel sorry for the students. They were told to go to Uni, then locked up. Many have been told that if they go home they can't go back. Costing them £9000 for nothing. Disgraceful.
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I'm lucky my teenager isn't in Uni accommodation & staying at home doing all work on-line, think he needs to go in next week though.
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This of course if stable after horse has bolted? All students should have been tested 5 weeks prior to entry and 2 weeks ....... it is most likely that those carrying C-19 have spread it. The system has failed students big time. All the precautions in the World won't take into account those that will be carrying viruses - it's a huge amount to spend anyway, I would advise any student to go via Open University.
If they go home many won't find jobs to fill the gap. The domino effect of students returning home may well take people out of the employment chain for 14 days unless the wage earner/s manage to live elsewhere. But if it saves on student suicide rates rising it's the best option but NOT return to College !
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Can anyone make sense of todays numbers?
Cases have gone up but hospital admissions have been dropping for four day in a row.
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Younger people are testing positive and pushing up the numbers, now we know more about Covid perhaps its easier to treat people in hospital, I don’t think hospital admissions in Europe have risen in line with new cases either. Wouldnt it be fantastic if the vurus had lost some of its potency :)
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That's what often happens with new viruses, so fingers crossed.
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Yes 🤞🏼.
They say because we use masks, and PPE now, anyone who gets infected doesn't get a full dose of it. Making it less strong.
Whereas before masks, back in March, and before that, people caught the full dose. 🤷♀️
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Can anyone make sense of todays numbers?
Cases have gone up but hospital admissions have been dropping for four day in a row.
They were saying that the hospital admissions are behind because it takes time for the symptoms to take hold, they think they will get higher as they catch up.
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Oh gosh, three different answers.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see how it pans out.
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Thats what gets me feeling low, the fact there is no end date :'(
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Yes two hoots, I find that very depressing. I think a lot of people feel like that after the latest restrictions maybe lasting 6 months, right through the dark winter nights.
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Oh gosh, three different answers.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see how it pans out.
True, I think that is all we can do, sadly. I hate it so much, as im sure everyone else does. Its so hard at times.
Where will it end? I said to hubby that there will always be someone, somewhere with it surely, :(
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That's what I have always said. Viruses don't go away.
I had Hong Kong flu during the second wave of that pandemic, when I was twelve. That is now included in the annual flu jab.
To be honest, I don't think surpressing viruses ever works.
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I think I’m getting to the point that I can’t keep up with all the rules and regulations.
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You R in good company with Boris then ;D
It would seem that a Scottish Member of Parliament has been suspended. Having felt unwell she managed to get a test, travelled down to London B4 the results were back, yep positive :o - so then travelled back to Scotland by train to isolate .......... these are the people voted in to 'work' for us!?!?
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Is she going to stand down! :-\
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Is she going to stand down! :-\
If she is she’s taking her time >:(
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Maybe at the end of Oct when she gets her next pay packet? :-\
Now Trump has been taken to Hospital .......... maybe now he will realise the serious of the world wide situation?
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He's in a bad way apparently. If it's all true. 🤷♀️
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Did any1 read Matt in the Telegraph today ;)
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I saw a clip of him walking into the hospital, he looked well enough, but difficult to know I guess. :-\ I read its a precautionary measure, given his age and high cholesterol :-\
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Is that Trump or Matt ? I hope you mean the former ::)
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It's day 9 before we will know I think. That's seems to be when the virus either takes over or you start to recover.
Taz x
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tnx. He appeared last night with shirt but no tie :-\. Apparently. So no ventilator required?
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So: Trump poorly? I think it's a joke. He's seen in a vehicle being driven so that he can wave at his fans >:( ........... if he were ill he would be wired up to a ventilator or too weak to walk :poke2:
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We had a mini bus full of people from our council, knocking on doors asking if we wanted a free covid test done, as were in a high infection rate area. :o
There's a school over the road, and I havnt seen anyone picking their children up, wearing a mask. :o and no distancing. Infact, our two neighbours, either side, are still mixing with each other and other people. 🤦🏼♀️🤷♀️
So it's no surprise it's a high infection area, I'm sure they're not the only ones. 😏
They made out Trump was really poorly, :( my god, he got well fast enough! It's all barmy, he looked really well to me, NOT ''really poorly". 🤷♀️
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Trump is a joke. He had no business doing what he did. His only motivation was for his own glory...safety of those around him be damned. ::)
We got news this morning of a confirmed case in the school I work in. No word on if it's a staff or student but my money is on a student. They are all not following protocol, all the time. Who knows what they are up to when they are out of school.
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I have to agree Trump is an absolute idiot, he just doesn't have a clue.
I know what you mean JD while we were on our week away, parents picking up from a school in Clitheroe weren't social distancing & they wonder why there is a high infection rate.
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Trumps motivation is ALWAYS for his own glory. .
He is a textbook narcissist
Jeepers xx
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Anyone watched the Saturday Night Live sketch of Trump and Biden?? So funny...
I was in The Range on Sunday and staff members were wearing their masks under their noses. One customer took hers off to talk on her phone and others wearing them as chin warmers. There's really no hope is there?
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It gets me down. 😩
These people who aren't doing what they're supposed to do, just make it worse for us, people who do. I've seen first hand what covid does, and it's terrifying, I know people get fed up, and are totally pee'd off with it, but it could be life or death, it's the luck of the draw, so why mess with it. 🤷♀️🤦🏼♀️
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We have to remember that:
we have fresh water on tap
electricity at the touch of a switch
food close by or it can be delivered
GPs to discuss problems with once we get through the press button A/B/C
We are not living in a War Zone - so wearing a mask, washing hands regularly, listening to advice however weird shouldn't be under discussion, we should get on and do it?
I think the UK should have had a 2 weeks lockdown, sort of like a fire break .......... students should remain in College. It's also notable that many food industries transport their workers, often Eastern Europeans, in coaches to and from work :bang: :bang: :bang:
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I went into Tesco yesterday, none of the staff on the checkouts were wearing masks, yes they have screens along the front as you pass but not at the end were you pack your bags and they are not 2 metres away, it's so frustrating.
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I made comment about the lack of screens in several stores. It puts everyone at risk that isn't wearing a mask. The Staff at Waitrose wear masks all the while. Although we did note a Manager giving a sales girl orders, she took down the mask to talk even though they were distanced, then walked away pulling it back over her face ::)
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Exactly the same here Yorkie at Sainsbury's.
Where you stand to pack your bags isn't even a meter away from them is it?
She didn't wear a mask either. 🤷♀️
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Jillydoll no it's not, I wouldn't be happy if they started coughing while handling my goods, they really should be wearing masks.
Hubby went to Morrisons earlier and he said it was the same in there >:(
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One supermarket by us, so my OH said, has had nearly all the staff come down with it.
No wonder. 🤦🏼♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
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Yep. We get our rules on Monday apparently. Lets go Celebrate over the weekend :drunk: :party:
Must get some loo rolls B4 then ............
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:drunk:
You need a socially distanced one 😁
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sheila - I can socially distance for England ;-). give me a black T, 2 sugars and :cupcake: and I'm anyone's :D
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You little minx you CLKD. ;D
I'm anyone's WITHOUT the :cupcake: ;D
We need something down here for sure. Is it Monday he's saying something?
My sons friend thought he had Covid. Was very poorly. Anyway, covid test came back negative. Just shows how we'll all think we've caught it, even though it's just a seasonal thing. 🤦🏼♀️
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Boris is To Speak on Monday :-\
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For anyone who thinks a safe, effective vaccine is imminent take a look at this.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/10/10/a-sars-cov2-vaccine-dont-hold-your-breath/
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Thanks for that. I will read it more closely later. It's seems obvious that a vaccine will take time, along time for safety.
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It's been known for months that it is unlikely to get a vaccine approved, up and running any time soon. We have to learn to live within the constraints of the Virus.
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An MP who used public transport while knowing she was infected with coronavirus has called it a "blip".
Margaret Ferrier argued that the virus "makes you act out of character" in an interview with the Sun on Sunday.
She faced calls to quit after travelling from Glasgow to London with Covid-19 symptoms last month, then returning home after testing positive.
The SNP suspended Ms Ferrier and the Metropolitan Police is investigating the incident.
Scotland's first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has said she "couldn't be clearer" and Ms Ferrier should resign.
The MP, 60, told the paper that she "panicked" and insisted she followed the rules.
"A lot of people say Covid makes you do things out of character. You're not thinking straight," she said.
The Met should arrest this woman and put her into a locked cell on her own >:( she still doesn't get it!
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The virus responsible for Covid-19 can remain infectious on surfaces such as banknotes, phone screens and stainless steel for 28 days, researchers say.
The findings from Australia's national science agency suggest SARS-Cov-2 can survive for far longer on surfaces than previously thought.
. etc..
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I’m not sure about that research CLKD. I’ve read other stuff that contradicts those findings (can’t remember where as I’ve read so much). Apparently the tests use a much more concentrated amount of the virus which in reality wouldn’t happen.
Tbh there have been so many differing reports and lies it’s just so hard to know what to believe.
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I’m not sure about that research CLKD. I’ve read other stuff that contradicts those findings (can’t remember where as I’ve read so much). Apparently the tests use a much more concentrated amount of the virus which in reality wouldn’t happen.
Tbh there have been so many differing reports and lies it’s just so hard to know what to believe.
Yes, there was a piece in yesterday's Sunday Times. Conclusion being that the virus doesn't last long on surfaces, and at very low levels anyway.
I'll find the exact wording later.
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Good point Teresa. Hadn't thought of that.
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DH had a look-C at the various studies after I pointed out the above to him. Apparently the Virus was kept in sterile conditions at a regular temp so forget what I posted ::). I'll edit .............
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Let's see what Boris has to say later. :-\
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Found the Times piece. It was a letter, not an article.
From - Professor Emeritus Ronald Eccles, former director (1988-2017) of the Common Cold Centre Cardiff University.
You are completely correct to report that touching door handles probably will not infect you with Covid-19 (News, last week). Nearly all studies on the virus survival use culture medium, which is a friendly environment for viruses, but viruses are transmitted in respiratory mucus, which is a hostile environment as it contains antibodies and peroxidase.
This point has clearly not got through - as you indicate, hospitals, companies and public agencies spend billions of pounds on deep cleaning. I have been contacted numerous times by large organisations asking if the should clean all commonly touched surfaces in offices every night to prevent the spread of colds.
My reply has been that these surfaces will clear themselves of infectious viruses overnight - without cleaning.
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Postmen have told me that the virus doesn't last long on paper, otherwise wouldn't many more postal workers be effected? ???
So that's why it takes my post a week to arrive, 3 days isolation for it before it's handled by someone else ;D
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Now sheila - it's those tups running free ;D
Tnx. Shadyglade. I don't suppose Boris will spring any surprises?
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A really interesting article on the protocol and objectives of the Pharma companies who are developing Covid vaccines
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Not very encouraging but not surprising.
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For the last 3 weeks I haven't been able to travel out of the county, my in laws live in the next county so no visits :( but tomorrow everyone is expecting the announcement that a total lockdown will start in Friday for 2 weeks, it started in the spring with a 3 week lockdown that lasted 4 months here >:(
Everyone I have spoken with is so angry this is happening again, we feel this should be a last resort not something the Welsh Assembly should do every few months, it didn't work in March why should it work now >:(
Be thankful if you don’t live in Wales, at least you get to choose to go out or shield :-\
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For the last 3 weeks I haven't been able to travel out of the county, my in laws live in the next county so no visits :( but tomorrow everyone is expecting the announcement that a total lockdown will start in Friday for 2 weeks, it started in the spring with a 3 week lockdown that lasted 4 months here >:(
Everyone I have spoken with is so angry this is happening again, we feel this should be a last resort not something the Welsh Assembly should do every few months, it didn't work in March why should it work now >:(
Be thankful if you don’t live in Wales, at least you get to choose to go out or shield :-\
That's terrible TH. It's all going too far now and even WHO are warning against lockdown.
Touch wood the infection rate in Kent is only 30 per 100,000 so everything is pretty calm here.
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We don't know what did/not work. It was about 'saving the NHS'. A fire break may well work if people keep to the restrictions. By now however, across England, Scotland and Wales, enough is known about which places are now clean enough to remain open: i.e. Gyms, Dental Surgeries, Hairdressers and nail salons as these are 'clean' industries.
At least we aren't under constant shelling, we have access to fresh water, electricity and food .........
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Hello ladies.
I follow Dr John Campbell who regularly looks at the latest research on COVID. Recently he has discussed studies that found low levels of vitamin D and also Zinc were responsible for poorer outcomes in those infected. He says that simple and cheap supplementation would have huge benefits but it seems that everyone is fixating on developing expensive vaccines.
Anyone interested in discovering more can find him on YouTube. Incidentally he often summarises his findings at the beginning of the video so people in a hurry don't have to watch the whole thing.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Kathleen...i follow Dr Campbell, i having been taking Vitamin D and nagging my teens too since he first mentioned it several months back.
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Here is another excellent article from the FT.
https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-global-data/
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:hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash:
Lockdown again from Friday at 6 until 9th November, only essential shops open, everyone else to stay at home >:( How can it work if its only our little country doing it, Wales must have the strictest rules in Europe and our numbers are not that high, nothing compared to the north of England :'(
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Mnachester, Bradford and close areas are under some kind of restriction. Get those loo rolls. Fast ;)
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I heard it's to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed TH, as they know what's about to happen.
xx
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Why would they get overwhelmed :-\ unless as many of us are aware, there hasn't been enough NHS staff for years++. That the UK health service has struggled with staffing numbers and emergency crews but the facts haven't reached the Press. That's where the Nightingales come in. Surely? The government has had since March to sort this possibility. Some 'experts' said that there wouldn't be a surge of Covid; others told us that there wouldn't be a 'flu outbreak .............
I'm really fed up now.
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I heard it's to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed TH, as they know what's about to happen.
xx
Its what we are told but the figures dont add up, there is a hospital thats busy but the virus was caught in there they didnt catch it before they were admitted. They built 19 extra hospitals all over the country and one was used last time, and even then it was for a handful of patients.
Last week Wales in total had 2,971 cases, it sounds really high, compare it to Rochdale they had over 1000, here everything closes on Friday except essential shops, cant go out without a good excuse mustn’t meet anyone from outside your household. If the figures go down, they will creep back up again once everything reopens >:( in my opinion lockdown is not the solution.
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There are nurses standing idle because they are supposed to be treating C-19 sufferers but haven't had any admitted ::). I think that Consultants must begin to stand up for their own specialities ....... more and more stories have come out this weekend about patients whose important treatments have been stopped with dire consequences.
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Virus is only high in certain areas of northern England. I'm in the North, and our area is level 1 or medium. Personally Wales doing a two week lockdown is a good idea, whether it works is another matter, also think the rest of the country should follow.
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I live in Wales and I dont think its a good idea, since March I’ve been allowed to leave this county between 6 July and 26 September a total of 12 weeks, its cutting family and friends off for months at a time, enough is enough >:(
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It's Trial and Error - until the idea is trialled it won't be known how much help a lockdown will give. What Boris should do is to insist that all countries have a 3 weeks lockdown ........... to stop people travelling unless it's an essential journey. Fire breaks work in nature ........ but humans don't work with nature.
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Virus is only high in certain areas of northern England. I'm in the North, and our area is level 1 or medium. Personally Wales doing a two week lockdown is a good idea, whether it works is another matter, also think the rest of the country should follow.
No thanks.
We have around 30 per 100,000 in Kent. What would be the point??
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I've given up on the reasons 'why' when twitchers in their 100s flocked to see a rare bird so small it was lucky to be seen! and that lockdown gives us 3-5 days to prepare - let's have a party then ! :-\ . If it isn't immediate I don't see the point. We're all stocked up with loo rolls by now, surely? The 3 affected towns in area in which I live has never been below the parapet since May.
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I live in Wales and I dont think its a good idea, since March I’ve been allowed to leave this county between 6 July and 26 September a total of 12 weeks, its cutting family and friends off for months at a time, enough is enough >:(
I live in wales too and I agree. Where I live the incidence is quite low ( but more on that later ) but Pembrokeshire and Cardiganshire ( 30 miles Way from me ) it’s even less. Terrible for them as they have worked so hard to keep numbers low and now feel back to square one.
My son in law has it and he’s been so careful, we thought OTT at times yet he’s succumbed. He’s had to accurately document his movements last two weeks ( easy as they don’t go anywhere) and they can not track where he got it from which is worrying. It must be school but then you’d think there would be more cases.
I know not seeing my family for another two weeks is just soul destroying . Plus worrying about family members losing jobs, and I’m not sure the evidence is there.
I wouldn’t want to be the First Minister that’s for sure 😷
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Teresa - loo rolls don't wash well :-\ ;D - is it on loan?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54632619
Now that's what you call pluck :valkyrie:
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Tesco 'wrong' over period products ban, says minister [Wales]
Tesco were “simply wrong” to tell a woman she could not buy period products during lockdown, Wales' health minister has said.
The supermarket has since apologised and admitted it had incorrectly applied rules that say they can only sell essential items until November 9.
It later said an area of its store in St Mellons, Cardiff had been cordoned off due to a break-in.
The issue has prompted protests and calls for the Senedd to be recalled.
Wonder what is classed as 'essential' these days. Pity that they didn't stop a menopausal woman ;D or a man buying condoms?
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I will find out tomorrow when I go to Tesco >:(
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I think Boris has sorted it ;D go prepared though. Buy condoms and STs for the sake of it ;-)
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According to the News today, some one has had a bright idea - get the various leaders of the UK together to decide on an overall plan ........ ;D. I was laughing so loudly that I didn't catch the name of the bright spark :D .
How did U get on in Tesco Two hoots?
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Update from Wales:
Non-essential shops and gyms in Wales will reopen at the end of the lockdown on 9 November, the Welsh Government's chief law officer has said.
Jeremy Miles said ministers were working on a new set of national rules when the firebreak comes to a close.
At a press conference he said churches and places of worship would also resume services, and bars and restaurants "will serve customers".
He also said Public Health Wales would confirm a further 37 Covid deaths.
It was not clear at the press conference whether pubs and restaurants would be able to fully reopen.
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Chaotic ::).
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Why would I want to use the plunger after someone who may be infected? Who sterilises the plunger :-\. I take my own small bottle ;-). ::)
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No touch would be good around the home too. Hot air driers however take too long in the kitchen. I tend to dab my own bottle on anything I've touched!
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I'm not prepared to take that risk so carry my own bottle ;-). Masks washed every 2/3 days on a hot cycle. None have shrunk. Yet ;)
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Stood waiting just inside Matalan today for a lift and no one coming in was using the sanitizer. So then we're all touching the clothes they touch. A fortnight ago a staff member was standing inside by the sanitizing station..Now it's just sitting on the side and no one's using it. All self service at the tills which I got in a middle with. ::)
All the shops provide sanitizer on the way in but most shops have a separate exit and there isn’t any sanitizer to use on the way out when you have touched everything.
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1-way idea went out the window in most supermarkets around here. Village shops have stuck with it. Sanitiser is on hand ......
Luton has gone into lockdown .....
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I was all in favour of the last lockdown but I don't see the point of doing it again. Done that, didn't work. More businesses going bust, more lost jobs, higher and higher taxes in the future to pay back the enormous debt - and all so that we can party at Christmas and spread it again. I'd rather cancel Christmas and still have jobs.
Apparently 90% of those who should be isolating don't do it properly so it doesn't matter how good (or bad) track and trace is it still isn't going to work.
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This article just about sums up how I feel.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/covid-19-kills-but-so-does-lockdown
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Agree totally sheila99 also with the article shadyglade. I am seriously worried for the future and the damage the lockdowns are causing. Will there be more panic buying and queuing in the cold and rain at supermarkets. Feel really depressed.
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I am seriously worried about the future of my three children, two teens, one early twenties who are all depressed to some extent and my youngest is so exam stressed, GCSES 2021, it is horrible to see. Also eldest adult son has been worrying for weeks waiting to get testing done for a medical condition, fortunately that was done this week.
I have never felt depressed but i am beginning to feel really down with it and we are lucky as our jobs are both in a safer field, well hopefully!
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It worked: 'to save the NHS'. What Boris never told the public was that there are not enough staff to 'man the lifeboats' when required. I mentioned yesterday whilst out and about how much traffic there is again considering half the country is in lockdown :-\.
Having worked in the NHS; with a sister that left due to unsafe working practices: she and I actually agreed that Nightingales haven't been utilised due to lack of staffing across the UK, people can't be spread any thinner !! - the Nightingales in her area were being prepared in April/May as morgues due to not having enough storage space. We rarely agree on anything so I was quite surprised! It didn't last though :-\
Spain is in complete lockdown and it's threatened that France will follow. It's a bit Trial and Error thus far. Yep Taxes will rise but mayB if we in the UK had paid more we may not be in quite such a situation now. However, the less people in work ........... and if areas are C-19 free, then work should continue?
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James Gallagher
It feels like history is repeating itself.
In March, the government was trying to slow rather than stop the virus. Then modelling said huge numbers of people would die and we ended up in lockdown.
A key difference this time is the government's science advisers called for a circuit-breaker six weeks ago.
The price of delay is cases are higher and we have missed the boat for doing it at the same time as school holidays for extra impact. It means we may have to lockdown for longer.
The spring lockdown did bring cases down. A lockdown now would be expected to do the same.
Now the Press Call has been put back until 5.00 :-\
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It feels like half a lockdown. People still allowed to go to work and schools still open seems to allow for a big transmission of the virus. One of my sons is considering coming back here for the month as he lives in an HMO and the others all work in the care or supermarket sector while he can work from home. However if the lockdown is extended then he wouldn't be allowed back to his house :-\
Taz x
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I would suggest that he stays with you? I can't see why schools aren't closed :-\ as it has a knock on effect when a child is suspect: family members have to isolate which may take some out of the work place.
'experts' told Boris that he needed to shut down 3-4 weeks ago, why didn't he? Pushed from different depts maybe? Our dentist has brought out appts forwards to this morning :o so I may B gone some time .......... instead of mid-November. As we are in the same bubble it makes it easier for him to get ahead.
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It is a half lockdown. They've said they'll look at the situation in a couple weeks time if the infection rate hasn't lowered. My opinion is, it's not going to lower if university's and schools remain open. Parents still have to pick children up from school, and if everywhere is like round here, there's no masks and distancing happening. 🤷♀️
My son and OH will still be at work. OH is a key worker, son, in a well known car factory.
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You must be glad they have jobs then Jillydoll. After all this there will be may that don't.
Very worried about both my sons employment prospects. The damage from this will be horrendous. :(
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It will be awful. My son has been looking for work for ages and he's not having any luck. I think its stsrting to get him down. I only grateful he hasn't shut down manufacturing places so hopefully he can get some work. I'm a key worker and I will be going back to work since my operation a few weeks ago, what a week to go back! I just can't see an end to all this :'(
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I'm worried about my sons job. With this going on AND Brexit, Christ knows what'll happen.
His factory is already asking for voluntary redundancies.
It's such a worrisome time for everyone. In every aspect of employment.
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Such a worry for us parents. He's applied for a job doing covid swabs. I hope and pray he gets it. Just so annoying when I think he is such a lovely young man, never rude to anyone, always helped our elderly lady neighbour, he even got up and saw to her at 2am! I just wish someone would give him a chance, and it's only going to get worse. There's a programme on tomorrow night about the job crisis because of covid, I don't know if I'd dare watch it. Its not just the worry of staying safe now is it?
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Originally it was 'stay at home, save the NHS' - now it needs to be focussed on job losses etc.; all those musicians that are self employed, many who travel World wide :'(.
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I can't see this getting any better unless they also close schools and colleges,
Parents will still be meeting at the school gates and talking,
I must say here i haven't seen many people who don't wear masks,even in the street,
Just when businesses are getting back on their feet they are going to have to close again,it's terrible
Luckily for my daughter she works for the council park and ride,and finished work yesterday on full pay until at least Easterm but who knows what will happen after that,it has been very quiet even when it opened up again last Easter,
One site has already closed down
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I’m trying to understand the logic of it all but to be fair there is very little risk of catching covid from talking to someone outdoors.
Whether schools and colleges should be closed, who knows but this isn’t going to go away and lockdown may just take the pressure off for a few weeks till flu season kicks in then we are stuffed. Gonna be in and out of lockdown like the Hokey Cokey but it solves nothing.
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I agree, it solves nothing, its still going to be there. It hits the people that abide by the rules as those, who quite frankly don't care less will continue to not care less :bang:
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I’m trying to understand the logic of it all but to be fair there is very little risk of catching covid from talking to someone outdoors.
Whether schools and colleges should be closed, who knows but this isn’t going to go away and lockdown may just take the pressure off for a few weeks till flu season kicks in then we are stuffed. Gonna be in and out of lockdown like the Hokey Cokey but it solves nothing.
I agree. It's just like sticking your finger in a dam. Remove it and we are back to square one.
I found the announcement on Saturday insulting. Many people are now much better informed and the graphs they used were nonsense. People need facts not wild predictions.
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For the past week, the province has been reporting new cases, at least 900 per day. Some hot spots went back to Stage 2 but with some concessions but it obviously hasn't done anything. No talk of a lockdown as the economy would plummet again. More children are leaving the schools and opting for remote learning, the teachers are taking their classes outside as much as possible.
I have no clue if we'll have restrictions during Christmas. :-\
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Places of worship will close, unless they are being used for funerals, to broadcast acts of worship, individual prayer, formal childcare, or essential services such as blood donation or food banks .......... how does that work :-\. They should always be open!
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Apparently, the government were preparing all the skating rinks around the country to act as mortuaries. They were told the death toll could be too many to deal with if it continues like it is.
Did anyone else read this?
The shops today were rammed. Panic buying again. I only went for some turkey breasts! 😆
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I suspect schools will be spreading infection now rather more than universities where they are all having Zoom lessons and staying put in their hall bubbles. Children are mixing with each other every day and then coming home to parents, grandparents etc etc.
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Certainly some of the Nightingales were set up as mortuaries. We don't have the staff to spread thinly enough to treat patients in them, stated by one of the Representatives for the Nurses Union on TV last week. One doesn't nurse patients on marble slabs.
Some countries in Europe had problems with bodies building up. :'( .........
I would give turkey breasts a miss at the best of times :D
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools
I haven't read this so don't know how relevant.
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Feeling very down and affected by it all, like many of us I know.
I hate the report that in Liverpool they are a week or so away from deciding who gets treatment and who doesn’t, that’s very frightening.
Next week We can bubble with another family in wales but for me and many others I have to decide between seeing my nephews ( who’s mum works and they come to me for tea everyday ) or my grandchildren . Just horrible.
Virtual hugs to everyone who is feeling worried and depressed as I know I am.
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I really don't know why they're not using nightingale hospitals. My mum goes for her cancer treatment at our hospital, and to see her consultant, she says the nurses say they are stood with not a lot to do as no patients and are bored :-\
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That was in June - another problem is when teachers come into contact with a carrier/+iv test and have to isolate.
There simply are not enough staff to spread across the Hospitals and Nightingales - the governments of the day knew that the UK is short of staff years++ ago. Several died in the early days of the outbreak which leaves levels even lower. 1 has to wonder where the Consultants are in all this planning?
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This is very good news.
Unfortunately the graphs with the tweet won't cut and paste. Sorry.
This is the link to see the full tweet (not sure if you don't have twitter).
https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1323937293787406337
Tweet
Tim Spector
@timspector
Further evidence today from our Zoe CSS survey that we have passed the peak in second wave new cases in the U.K. there will be a four week lag before this is seen in a decline in deaths and 1-2 weeks in hospitalisation. R value close to one in most areas now
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How many people are being discharged daily having recovered? The media focusses on those who may be in hospital due to C-19 infection .......
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It's going to be a long dark month and I hope things improve one day, bit I feel so anxious about it all. I really feel for people who live alone. My beautiful mother died last year and my dad the year before. I miss them so much but so glad that, because they were in their 90s, they don't have to live through this. There must be a lot of loneliness around.
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My parents are in their 90s and very frail. They live in their own home. I can’t go to see them. They are struggling with health issues. Thank goodness for wonderful neighbours.
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Just witnessed my neighbour going into another neighbours house. :o
I thought we wasn't supposed to do that, .......only meet one person from another household, outside. ?🤷♀️
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That is going to happen a lot, this time around.
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Could she be a carer?
A slightly different query: who is actually 'running' Test and Trace in England?
How many patients are discharged every day?
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Could she be a carer?
A slightly different query: who is actually 'running' Test and Trace in England?
How many patients are discharged every day?
Serco. It's nothing to do with the NHS. They got the contract due to cronyism.
Making a fortune apparently.
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No, they're just friends whose kids go the same school. 🤷♀️
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Tnx. Shadyglade - my sister didn't name the company ........ but unless we have track and trace after testing, it's money down the drain?
Interestingly - as another aside: 1 MotoGP racer has tested negative but his brother, with whom he lives as well as 1 mecahanic have positive tests: they live in Andorra so all have to isolate until 2 negative tests are returned ::). Every day is a learning curve?
jillydoll - I think many have decided not to 'obey' the rules. I don't know when this next round of discussion/voting becomes Law in England/UK?
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It’s strange this lockdown #2. I’ve noticed that although a lot of shops are closed, people just seem to gravitate to the shops that are still open instead. I haven’t been into town yet but know that Savers, Wilkos, B & M, Poundland etc are still open for essential stuff? People just seem to be buzzing around as normal.
Talking of T&T. My mum was in contact with a family who all tested positive for covid. They gave my mum’s details but she never received a phone call from anyone and just isolated herself. The family in question, however, received multiple unnecessary phone calls from T&T despite telling them repeatedly that they had already had a positive result and were isolating. Sounds like a bloody shambles.
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DH has the app, I don't have a modern enough 'phone.
I can't understand people mooching around shops, it's 4 weeks of restrictions. Someone was having a moan at me yesterday until I told him that we have 'electricity, fresh water and a GP Surgery, plus food'. When we go shopping we know what is missing from the larder and buy accordingly, in and out as fast as possible.
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So what kind of lockdown is the UK in now or is it just major restrictions? Are the schools still open?
The numbers keep climbing here, at least 1000 new cases per day this week. Starting Friday, Toronto will be moved to what they're calling the "Red Zone" and will no longer allow indoor dining, no gym classes, no wedding receptions, essential activities only like school, health care, and shopping for only household needs. Where I live, we're not at that phase but it may be coming soon.
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So what kind of lockdown is the UK in now or is it just major restrictions? Are the schools still open?
The numbers keep climbing here, at least 1000 new cases per day this week. Starting Friday, Toronto will be moved to what they're calling the "Red Zone" and will no longer allow indoor dining, no gym classes, no wedding receptions, essential activities only like school, health care, and shopping for only household needs. Where I live, we're not at that phase but it may be coming soon.
Your 'Red Zone' is pretty much what we have in England now.
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have different restrictions as they are devolved administrations.
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Which IMO makes a complete mockery of lockdown anywhere! Schools are open unless too many staff are in isolation but kids aren't allowed to play after-school or weekend sports. Go figure.
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Pop star Rita Ora has apologised for a second breach of the UK's Covid-19 restrictions, after failing to self-isolate following a trip to Egypt.
The 30-year-old flew to Egypt for a private performance on 21 November. On her return the following day, she should have isolated for two weeks.
Instead, she threw a birthday party in London, which was itself in violation of lockdown rules.
The star apologised for the party last week, and offered to pay a fine.
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Anyone in Harrods on Sat.?
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So we are all told to stay within our tiers, what ever they might be. Not to travel unless 'necessary' :-\
A visit by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to Wales has been questioned by a minister who said he would "rather no one was having unnecessary visits" as Covid-19 cases continue to rise.
Prince William and Catherine are on a UK tour to talk to care home staff, teachers, pupils and volunteers to hear their challenges during the pandemic.
The royals arrive with Covid rates in Wales among the UK's highest.
Wales' health minister hopes the visit is not used as an "excuse" for people.
"I'd rather no one was having unnecessary visits," said Vaughan Gething.
Go figure.
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Northamptonshire market square bollards yarn-bombed for Christmas BBC local news - worth a look-C ;)
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Thousands of people have driven to Birmingham's Indian consulate to show support for farmers in India protesting about agricultural reforms.
Despite the city being under tier three rules, people from across England have been taking part a week after a similar gathering in London.
The National Sikh Police Association UK advised people not to attend. [wonder how many there in the Association?]
Arjan Singh, from Manchester, said people wanted to show the Indian government the reforms were unfair.
So if anyone stops me en route anywhere :bang: :bang: :bang: it shows that the Tier system ain't working ? or .........
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So the Indian government will be shaking in their boots because there's been a protest in London. I do agree with the reason for it though. The rot set in long ago, BLM protests during lockdown, raves they turned a blind eye too etc. Expect lockdown 3 in January. I will be severely p*ssed off if we get it when we're so close to getting vaccinated. Why can't behave for few more months?
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Very interesting BMJ article about asymptomatic transmission.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695
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I could have understood it had the Asian community got together against the Tier system etc.. Not correct for any reasons currently, 1 can see how the virus continues to spread :-\ and numbers are so behind actuality that they become useless. Where I live three towns in the area have never been below 1 apart from a few occasional variants but never all at the same time. I keep well away from the towns :-\
What I must do is start wiping the Council bins, steering wheels in the vehicles, car doors etc., I've been lax in recent weeks due to it being cold or raining hard :-\
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So everyone will have to change their plans if they live in the SE.
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Tell me about it.
Have been WhatsApping my eldest son all evening. He is not a happy bunny.
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What a big mess
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Hello ladies.
We've had the disappointment of not seeing our daughter and her partner who live in Edinburgh and now our son in London will be subject to the new Tier 4 restrictions.
This has been a very hard year for so many people but all we can do is to keep going and look forward to better times.
Take care ladies and stay as safe as you can.
K.
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This just gets worse. :'(
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It is what it is.
We all have fresh water, electricity, access to medications. Disappointment is a learning curve. We are human, we are flexible!
What I can't understand is how people are still catching this nasty virus and now it seems that it's the mutation that is bringing people low.
Wash hands in hot water. Wear masks. Walk away from others.
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Tell me about it.
Have been WhatsApping my eldest son all evening. He is not a happy bunny.
I haven't yet spoken to my brother but it seems I will be at home. Hope I can at least travel to deliver their presents to them.
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Tell me about it.
Have been WhatsApping my eldest son all evening. He is not a happy bunny.
I haven't yet spoken to my brother but it seems I will be at home. Hope I can at least travel to deliver their presents to them.
That should be fine so long as it's not between tiers.
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Tell me about it.
Have been WhatsApping my eldest son all evening. He is not a happy bunny.
I haven't yet spoken to my brother but it seems I will be at home. Hope I can at least travel to deliver their presents to them.
That should be fine so long as it's not between tiers.
No it isn't between tiers but they may prevent us using public transport other than for work/other essentials (as they did during the 1st lockdown).
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Have a lookC on your local tier system? I can't make head nor tail of any of it.
It would seem that Wales has the variant spreading fast :-\
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Looks like a lot more areas will be in Tier 4 soon. Get your haircut ladies.
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I was thinking about my fringe earlier, scissors to the ready ;)
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Looks like a lot more areas will be in Tier 4 soon. Get your haircut ladies.
Too late for me. I considered booking it for my last day on site at work last week but my hair hadn't quite grown enough to justify it. I had just had an email from the hairdresser to say he would be open in early January but that is doomed now.
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So as of Boxing Day my entire province is going into lockdown again. They're saying for a minimum of 28 days, the only exception is the far points north where they will be in lockdown for 14 days. Elementary schools will return on Jan.11 so I'm off work for an extra week. Just to be on the safe side I hurried out yesterday and got my hair trimmed. All the salons will be crazy busy for the next few days.
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I'm around 22 million, sometime around may/june. And that's if things go to plan. If the new vaccines come on line when expected, and if they prove to be safe, if there's no supply problems, if the new variant responds to the vaccine, (around 6 weeks to tweak it if it doesn't), if new future variants respond, and if they don't, would they have to start again and revaccinate those who have already had it? So many variables.
Wow, i've just realised how bad that sounded. Sorry for the doom and gloom this early in the day. I'll just go away for a while and give myself a good talking to!
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Stay here, it's the time of year for doom and gloom :-X. I woke in panic earlier :'(
It amazes me how many people are still picking this Virus up and how many are planning on not staying at home ..........
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Not sure how accurate this is, but might be of interest.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk
I tried it and it gave me an estimation of April 2021 but I think it will be longer.
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I’m April too. If the Oxford vaccine get the go ahead I think it will speed thing up quite a lot.
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My sister is in the initial wave 4 this week but her's hasn't arrived.
They are suggesting to put the vaccine to a wider audience by giving 1 dose and not do the boosters. I wonder if there is a difference in the make-up of the booster?
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Its a mess, it has a massive impact on mental health. My parents will be on their own for Xmas ( I know they're not the only ones) so it will be like a normal day for them. They are in a bubble with us, I have taken food shopping over and I take mum to her hospital appts, she has cancer and is in palliative care, my dad is 86 & looks after her. She was in tears earlier now she can't come. We were never going to have the 3 household bubble but now we can't even have our bubble for Xmas. It doesn't make sense that I can take her to hospital but she can't have dinner with us. The rules are so confusing & contradicting for some.
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If U R her main carer I think you are allowed 2 visit for the day? Who is to know anyway?
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Dad is her carer, I take shopping over to them and take mum to some of her hospital appts, dad takes her to the others, safer than her getting in a taxi, but we can't have them to come over for dinner, its so wrong. I understand if we weren't each others bubble. Its so sad to see her upset. I know lots will have their families & break the rules, but I won't.
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Really feel for you Penguin and understand you don't want to break the rules. It makes me angry when people do, such as some where I live who have carried on regardless since March having family in and out. So many are missing precious family time because they abide by what they are told while others just are so arrogant.