Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: margherita on August 16, 2019, 09:26:30 PM
-
I started a year and a half ago: estrogel (2 pumps) and utrogestan 100 mg which I take for 7 days orally days 21-28, a la Studd (who I don't see as I can only afford NHS).
When I began, I was perimenopausal, normalish periods, bad pmt that was greatly helped by Agnus Castus.
I've never had typical symptoms like hot flushes or night sweats but worsening moods, not helped by a bereavement and sharp decline in circumstances, financial and family. Obviously like any other condition, hormonal problems intersect with various personal issues.
I had read that depression and anxiety at this time of life could well be due to declining hormones so was very hopeful hrt would help.
The progesterone week is always bad so I assume I'm intolerant (and no longer take the agnus castus as heard it was incompabile with HRT) but in the last 3 months the "bad" progesterone week is turning into 2 weeks or more and the specific bad feeling I'm getting is rage and it's making life unbearable.
On the physical side, while my periods faded out on the HRT for the first year and a bit (were normal til then), in the last three months they are back, long and quite heavy, and are accompanied by spots (which I never get). Also painful hand joints in one hand only out of the blue.
The combination of rage/spots/new period pattern smacks of some hormonal storm.
What can I do?
I read a post on there that HRT can make moods WORSE for some people.
On the other hand, I see that lots of you have better results by increasing estrogel to 3 or even 4 pumps.
I am torn - should I phase it out completely or increase my dose - I feel that I cannot afford to get this wrong.
I am surprised by this deterioration after a year and a half
Before switching to estrogel I was on femoston for a couple of months and did not do well on it.
Physically I do the virtuous stuff you're meant to do - mediterranean diet, no weight problem (if anything am a bit underweight with BMI at 17 though I've heard BMI is bollocks), moderate exercise, regular schedule. I force myself to do these things but would really like to be under the duvet 24/7.
-
Jari - where do you get the idea that symptoms are dragged out by taking HRT?
I suggest putting the name of the product into the search box. Make notes ;-). It may be that your hormones are spiking, making the regime less active. Any threads might give ideas as to whether a bit more HRT will ease those symptoms.
Menopause is 'natural' but sometimes symptoms are really bad, enough to cause women to kill themselves. If HRT can ease those symptoms then it should be considered.
As oestrogen levels drop so the body may become dry inside and out and muscles may become lax = aches and pains.
-
CLKD. I get that impression by reading many posts on this forum. Many many ladies are not getting anywhere with their trials and errors with hrt.
I'm sure you've read the posts?
Many women spend decades dealing with their suicidal thoughts, anxiety, weight gain, depression etc. All caused by hrt.
It's great that you choose not to take it. Like me. But, I'm not sure why you choose to “sell†the hrt regime?
-
What I understand is that as you progress through the years of peri menopause your hrt needs change because your own hormone levels are changing. The specialist I see says that she sees the oestrogen needs grow then decline so in the early stages more is needed than less.
Can you see someone for a review? If the Utrogestan weeks are getting worse maybe your own progesterone is making them worse and a change in oestrogen would help. Or a different progesterone.
Nothing stands still so ask for guidance again.
-
CLKD. I get that impression by reading many posts on this forum. Many many ladies are not getting anywhere with their trials and errors with hrt.
I'm sure you've read the posts?
But many women have been given their enjoyment of life back from using HRT. For some women the symptoms of menopause don't abate as they go further into menopause. My neighbour is 72 and has had debilitating symptoms since she was 54. She chose to ride it out but is exhausted now and wishes she had tried it. It's different for every woman.
Welcome Margherita. I don't have experience of your regime but it's worth trying a different HRT if you do want to stay on it. How old are you and what were your periods/cycle like before HRT?
Taz x :welcomemm:
-
My advice would be to get off hrt. It causes so many problems and it's so much better to let your body get through this phase naturally, rather than add to all the symptoms and drag it all out with hrt..
Menopause symptoms pass naturally if you don't mess with your body. If you choose to add different hormones with hrt, then you can expect years of a messed up body with all sorts of symptoms and a negative outlook.
Deal with it head on naturally and it will get better and the symptoms will pass. With hrt it just drags it all out.. with depression, weight gain, anxiety among the main hrt symptoms. X
That doesn't apply to VA and osteoporosis. I don't want continued UTI'S and increased risk of a hip fracture.
-
Taz2 and Katejo.
That's a shame for your neighbour and it's true that everyone is different. Who knows, hrt may have given her even worse symptoms like it did for me. She won't know if she never tried it.
It absolutely didn't work for me and I was very surprised how powerful it is. I do still have light symptoms, but I've found with lifestyle changes, these have become better or perhaps are fading anyway?!
I don't know about hrt and osteoporosis and whether it helps or not?! I'm going to have a bone scan to see how my bone health is out of interest, but osteoporosis can be helped/ prevented by exercise and eating the right foods etc.. x
-
Wrong! Do read the Osteoporosis web-site Jari. This affects women and men. Can be fatal.
I don't 'sell' anything. That comment reminds me of someone who used to be a Member several years ago :-\. My advice and support are freely given.
I don't take HRT other than treatment for vaginal atrophy as so far, I haven't required it. Also, having had breast cancer in the 1990s, I would push hard should symptoms become unbearable, regardless. Quality of Life is important to me - having been close to death a couple of times, I value each day. If medication helps to get me through, then that's the way I go. I did fight against it initially .......
Many ladies find it hard to get a satisfactory regime because their own hormones are rising and falling. But eventually most do. Those that sail through don't appear on this forum. Some use HRT for several years, then stop, to find that symptoms return with a vengeance.
Marghereta - some find keeping a mood/food/symptom diary of use ;-)
-
I started a year and a half ago: estrogel (2 pumps) and utrogestan 100 mg which I take for 7 days orally days 21-28, a la Studd (who I don't see as I can only afford NHS).
When I began, I was perimenopausal, normalish periods, bad pmt that was greatly helped by Agnus Castus.
I've never had typical symptoms like hot flushes or night sweats but worsening moods, not helped by a bereavement and sharp decline in circumstances, financial and family. Obviously like any other condition, hormonal problems intersect with various personal issues.
I had read that depression and anxiety at this time of life could well be due to declining hormones so was very hopeful hrt would help.
The progesterone week is always bad so I assume I'm intolerant (and no longer take the agnus castus as heard it was incompabile with HRT) but in the last 3 months the "bad" progesterone week is turning into 2 weeks or more and the specific bad feeling I'm getting is rage and it's making life unbearable.
On the physical side, while my periods faded out on the HRT for the first year and a bit (were normal til then), in the last three months they are back, long and quite heavy, and are accompanied by spots (which I never get). Also painful hand joints in one hand only out of the blue.
The combination of rage/spots/new period pattern smacks of some hormonal storm.
What can I do?
I read a post on there that HRT can make moods WORSE for some people.
On the other hand, I see that lots of you have better results by increasing estrogel to 3 or even 4 pumps.
I am torn - should I phase it out completely or increase my dose - I feel that I cannot afford to get this wrong.
I am surprised by this deterioration after a year and a half
Before switching to estrogel I was on femoston for a couple of months and did not do well on it.
Physically I do the virtuous stuff you're meant to do - mediterranean diet, no weight problem (if anything am a bit underweight with BMI at 17 though I've heard BMI is bollocks), moderate exercise, regular schedule. I force myself to do these things but would really like to be under the duvet 24/7.
Hi Margherita, could I ask whether your now peri or post menopause? As far as I know Prof Studs 7 day regime is for post menopausal ladies.
Maybe the imbalance of the 7 day Utrogestan is not agreeing with the mix of your own hormones. Or maybe like me Utrogestan makes you just feel like poo. How do you feel on the Estro phase of this regime? There is an alternative if you wish to continue on the HRT and that's a Mirena coil I'm having one fitted next month.
-
This sounds like someone on facebook,i read this morning warning people not to have HRT as it from horses urine, there is quite a lot of anger about it, as she is making out that all HRT is bad for you,
It is scaremongering in my opinion, as we know that most HRT is NOT from Horses urine
Premarin and Prempak are,[or were] i thought it was banned ages ago
not sure if it still is, as someone else said it is made a different way now
I refused these in the past on ethical grounds, but if people dont want HRT or it doesn't suit them stay off it and let others make their own minds up
-
My advice would be to get off hrt. It causes so many problems and it's so much better to let your body get through this phase naturally, rather than add to all the symptoms and drag it all out with hrt..
Menopause symptoms pass naturally if you don't mess with your body. If you choose to add different hormones with hrt, then you can expect years of a messed up body with all sorts of symptoms and a negative outlook.
Deal with it head on naturally and it will get better and the symptoms will pass. With hrt it just drags it all out.. with depression, weight gain, anxiety among the main hrt symptoms. X
Hi Jari, how do you deal with VA and Osteoprosis naturally? My mum had an hysterectomy at 48 and suffered with Osteoprosis all her life numerous breaks and falls regardless of what calcium tablets she was taking. Just interested to know of any treatment that's more effective than Estrogen for this condition.
-
Many women spend decades dealing with their suicidal thoughts, anxiety, weight gain, depression etc. All caused by hrt.
These symptoms are caused by menopause. There is no scientific evidence for your statement except for possibly a small handful of women. For thousands of women hrt alleviates these symptoms, it doesn't cause them. Perhaps scaremongering isn't appropriate.
Margherita, I wonder if the increased bleeding is because the utro isn't sufficient? I'm on 200mg for 12 days. If you're getting spotting I would ask for a smear test unless you've had one recently. Symptoms do change throughout peri and sometimes heavy periods can be the last hurrah. Provera might be worth trying instead of utro. If these are the symptoms you had before then it would indicate that increased E might help but I'd be wary of doing this on the low dose of P you're on.
-
Jaycee, some hrt's are made from pregnant mules urine, not horses I don't think?
Some are plant based..
I agree that people should of course make their own minds up whether to take hrt or not and I think it's good to hear all experiences of taking hrt, good and bad!? Right?
-
Tracy, I don't take hrt and I don't have VA or Osteoporosis currently.
I am going to have a bone scan out of interest, because I choose not to take hrt and I want to therefore see if my bone health is affected because I don't take it.
There are plenty of foods and supplements that help with osteoporosis and VA symptoms. Exercise is really good for bone health also. X
-
Sheila, I'm not scaremongering, just telling it how it is. For some women, hrt does cause these symptoms. As you point out of course, other women are not affected, but I think all women should understand that it is not a wonder drug that will cure everything. For me, it caused really bad symptoms. It's not meant to scare people, just to make aware.
-
Tracy, I don't take hrt and I don't have VA or Osteoporosis currently.
I am going to have a bone scan out of interest, because I choose not to take hrt and I want to therefore see if my bone health is affected because I don't take it.
There are plenty of foods and supplements that help with osteoporosis and VA symptoms. Exercise is really good for bone health also. X
I did all those things, yoga, walking everyday, healthy diet etc. Unfortunately it didn't improve my bone health or VA. Hence why I'm now on HRT, my bone density has increased considerably since starting it last year and my VA is 75% better. So you see for various reasons we may need HRT when there is no other alternative remedy that will work. X
-
That's good Tracy, I'm pleased it's working so well for you.
It just shows, for some women it can work well. For me, that's not the case. X
-
Birdy well said .... this forum is not the place for ladies to be telling us that we are wrong to be taking hrt. x
-
Understood Birdy. Of course everyone has to make up their own minds and make the best decisions to suit their circumstances. I was just so badly effected by hrt and I wanted to get that across. Good luck with it. X
-
Understood Birdy. Of course everyone has to make up their own minds and make the best decisions to suit their circumstances. I was just so badly effected by hrt and I wanted to get that across. Good luck with it. X
Tell us your story Jari, I would love to hear about your journey through the menopause. :) x
-
I'm grateful for all your replies, thanks. I appreciate that some have not beneftted from HRT but I still feel that I want to persist with it, once I get through the maze of how much/which type because I'm not just taking it for the hellish here and now but also for the longterm osteo etc. benefits.
AFAIK I am definitely not postmenpausal (am 52 and my mother who I resemble strongly physically) stopped having periods at the end of her 50s), I had normal periods at the start of this hrt "journey" (1.5 years ago) and they only stopped, according to my GP, because of the HRT and now they are back.
Perhaps now I am menopausal hence the nasty mood swings.
I think I will start with upping the estrogel dose to 3, I only want to try chnging one thing at a time or I won't know what to attribute any possible improvements or declines to.
I'm also curious to add testosterone gel but again, first I want to try and sort of this estrogen/prog combination first to see if it makes any difference. I am scared to increase the utrogestan, as someone suggested, as it makes me feel worse.
And, as mentioned, my feeling worse has now spilled well out into the estrogen-only weeks so I hope that increasing it will help.
I'll report back if I can glean any info
-
My advice would be to get off hrt. It causes so many problems and it's so much better to let your body get through this phase naturally, rather than add to all the symptoms and drag it all out with hrt..
Menopause symptoms pass naturally if you don't mess with your body. If you choose to add different hormones with hrt, then you can expect years of a messed up body with all sorts of symptoms and a negative outlook.
Deal with it head on naturally and it will get better and the symptoms will pass. With hrt it just drags it all out.. with depression, weight gain, anxiety among the main hrt symptoms. X
Jari I think we all understand your personal feelings with regard to HRT but as Birdy and others have quite rightly said this forum is not the place to be telling people in no uncertain terms to come off HRT .
I don't know where you are getting your information from , other than your own experiences.
i am 7 years post meno and like you was very keen to tackle no end of extremely debilitating symptoms ‘ naturally'. I have a healthy life, exercise daily and cook from scratch healthy food on a regular basis, as I am sure many others do too. Unfortunately, for me none of that worked and 2 months ago I was in such a state and in such a dark place that I was wondering what was the point of living.
So, I took advice from a menopause expert and did a lot of research myself and started HRT six weeks ago. My life has turned around, I am beginning to feel like me again. No it's not a magic cure by any means but it can be transforming for lots of women. I agree that it can be tricky getting the balance right especially during peri when your own fluctuating hormones are still in play, but to say that ‘you can end up with a messed up body, with all sorts of symptoms and a negative outlook ‘ is wide off the mark and has no place on this forum.
Please be aware that many of us come on here for balanced advice, as did Marguerita who originated this post and is clearly struggling at the moment. We all react differently to this challenging time of our lives and last thing anyone needs is to be told to come straight off HRT based purely on one persons experience and totally incorrect information.
You are fortunate that your symptoms are improving with your natural approach, others are not so lucky.
I wish you well with your menopause journey
W
-
I'm sort of with Jari on this one. If you need HRT for medical reasons such as osteoporosis I get it. But if not why persist with something that's not working.
I used to post a lot on the Alternatives section, but got sick and tired of some members telling people it was rubbish and they were wasting their time and money.
You can't have it both ways ladies. Do as you would be done by.
-
Hi Marguerita
I completely understand the wanting to be under the duvet 24/7!
From what I have researched it does seem to be more difficult to get the HRT balance right during peri when your own hormones are so up and down. If you have been ok for a year and a half and now it is going haywire it could be that your own hormones are having a ‘last hurrah ‘. I wasn't on HRT when I was peri but I did have very similar symptoms to you in the last couple of years before my periods finally stopped. Mood swings for me were also terrible.
With regards to testosterone, I think generally the experts like you to get the oestrogen levels right and see how you feel symptom wise before adding that in. Am sure others will correct me if I am wrong on that one.
Also, am not sure about increasing the dose of gel if you are only on 7 days utrogestan but again others will be along to advise on that too.
Might be worth asking your GP to refer you to a Menopause Clinic? It really is worth speaking to someone with more expertise, sadly the majority of GP's lack up to date information when it comes to Menopause.
I totally understand how you must be feeling, I have been there myself and know others have too.If it wasn't for the lovely ladies on here I don't know where I would be now.,
W xx
-
Jari, I understand your take on HRT, but I think you need to stop telling us to quit it. We understand our options, and we are aware that we can opt out of using HRT any time we wish. We are all adults with our own minds, albeit a bit fuzzy at times. But you seem to be on a mission to turn people off HRT and that's not what this forum is for.
Also, you cannot fix VA without oestrogen, unfortunately.
My reaction too Birdy. There is a sense of disapproval for those who need to try HRT.
-
I'm sort of with Jari on this one. If you need HRT for medical reasons such as osteoporosis I get it. But if not why persist with something that's not working.
I used to post a lot on the Alternatives section, but got sick and tired of some members telling people it was rubbish and they were wasting their time and money.
You can't have it both ways ladies. Do as you would be done by.
-
I completely agree with your last comment Shadyglade.
It is great that the alternative route helps many ladies and for a long time I hoped it would help me too. Sadly not and I have now hopefully found a way that has got me out of a very dark place.
But I would never dream of telling people that they must take HRT anymore than I would tell those trying alternative methods that they are wasting time and money.
The whole point of this form is to give and receive balanced views. Thankfully that is normally the case and has helped me and others I am sure, enormously.
W x
-
Jari, that HRT is from pregnant mares urine and i thought it had been banned as it should be, but whoever was saying this on facebook made it sound as if all HRT was bad, and some people agreeing that before HRT women just put up with it as nature meant it to be,
Naturally there were some angry comments , but who has the right to tell anyone else what they should do, maybe you are that person, it was the same attitude
People can be, their own judge ,don't need telling ,
Are you menopause expert then?if not leave others alone
-
I completely agree with your last comment Shadyglade.
It is great that the alternative route helps many ladies and for a long time I hoped it would help me too. Sadly not and I have now hopefully found a way that has got me out of a very dark place.
But I would never dream of telling people that they must take HRT anymore than I would tell those trying alternative methods that they are wasting time and money.
The whole point of this form is to give and receive balanced views. Thankfully that is normally the case and has helped me and others I am sure, enormously.
W x
Thanks, that's nice to hear but unfortunately anyone who sticks with alternative are often treated badly here.
But Hay Ho life's not fair.
-
The written word is static. But I haven't yet met anyone who can sort vaginal atrophy with a diet ::)
I have a good diet these days. I also had repeated urine infection-type symptoms but those urine samples that were sent to a Lab. didn't show any growth so my on-the-ball GP rang and told me to pick up a prescription for vaginal atrophy treatment. Which has worked wonders, 4 me it was like razor blades up there :o. I also use KYJelly when the area becomes itchy. 'vaseline' for legs, feet, arms ....... to stop the drying effect which causes my skin to itch.
How's the mood been Margheta? R U better when it's sunny?
-
Wrong! Do read the Osteoporosis web-site Jari. This affects women and men. Can be fatal.
Wrong? Not sure which bit I'm wrong about CLKD?
Are you meaning the NHS prevention of osteoporosis website or a different one. The NHS say for the prevention of osteoporosis... exercise, diet and supplements.
-
Prevention
- Osteoporosis
Contents
Overview
Causes
Treatment
Living with
Prevention
Your genes are responsible for determining your height and the strength of your skeleton, but lifestyle factors such as diet and exercise influence how healthy your bones are.
Regular exercise
Regular exercise is essential. Adults aged 19 to 64 should do at least 2 hours and 30 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic activity, such as cycling or fast walking, every week.
Weight-bearing exercise and resistance exercise are particularly important for improving bone density and helping to prevent osteoporosis.
As well as aerobic exercise, adults aged 19 to 64 should also do muscle-strengthening activities on 2 or more days a week by working all the major muscle groups, including the legs, hips, back, abdomen, chest, arms and shoulders.
If you've been diagnosed with osteoporosis, it's a good idea to talk to your GP or health specialist before starting a new exercise programme to make sure it's right for you.
Read more about the physical activity guidelines for adults and find out more about:
strength exercises
balance exercises
flexibility exercises
sitting exercises
Weight-bearing exercises
Weight-bearing exercises are exercises where your feet and legs support your weight.
High-impact weight-bearing exercises, such as running, skipping, dancing, aerobics, and even jumping up and down on the spot, are all useful ways to strengthen your muscles, ligaments and joints.
When exercising, wear footwear that provides your ankles and feet with adequate support, such as trainers or walking boots.
Read more about choosing sports shoes and trainers.
People over the age of 60 can also benefit from regular weight-bearing exercise. This can include brisk walking, keep-fit classes or a game of tennis. Swimming and cycling aren't weight-bearing exercises, however.
Read more about physical activity guidelines for older adults.
Resistance exercises
Resistance exercises use muscle strength, where the action of the tendons pulling on the bones boosts bone strength. Examples include press-ups, weightlifting or using weight equipment at a gym.
If you've recently joined a gym or haven't been for a while, your gym will probably offer you an induction. This involves being shown how to use the equipment and having exercise techniques recommended to you.
Always ask an instructor for help if you're not sure how to use a piece of gym equipment or how to do a particular exercise.
Read more about exercise and bone health.
Healthy eating and vitamin D supplements
Eating a healthy, balanced diet is recommended for everyone. It can help prevent many serious health conditions, including heart disease, diabetes and many forms of cancer, as well as osteoporosis.
Calcium is important for maintaining strong bones. Adults need 700mg a day, which you should be able to get from your daily diet. Calcium-rich foods include:
leafy green vegetables
dried fruit
tofu
yoghurt
Vitamin D is important for healthy bones and teeth because it helps your body absorb calcium. All adults should consume 10 micrograms of vitamin D a day. Good dietary sources are:
oily fish – such as salmon, sardines, herring and mackerel
red meat
liver
egg yolks
fortified foods such as most fat spreads and some breakfast cereals
dietary supplements.
However, it can be difficult to get enough vitamin D from foods alone. So, consider taking a daily supplement containing 10 micrograms of vitamin D.
Stop smoking and drink less
Other lifestyle factors that can help prevent osteoporosis include:
quitting smoking – smoking is associated with an increased risk of osteoporosis
limiting your alcohol intake – the NHS recommends not drinking more than 14 units of alcohol a week; it's also important to avoid binge drinking
Read more about looking after your bones on the Royal Osteoporosis Society website.
Get some sun!
From late March/April to the end of September, sunlight triggers the production of vitamin D, which helps your body absorb calcium.
This process helps strengthen teeth and bones, which in turn helps prevent conditions such as osteoporosis.
-
Jaycee... I am not on Facebook and don't know about your pregnant mules urine hrt. I think there is an hrt called Premarin still used? Not sure. This is from pregnant mules urine. Others are plant based, I believe?!
No, I'm not a menopause specialist, are you? I just give my opinions based on my experience and am not telling people what they should do. Hopefully grown women can make their own decisions based on their own research and what their gut feeling tells them is the right choice for them.
Many women on here give advice, telling people to take different hrt's etc, which I assume is based on their own experiences. Possibly because that is what has worked well for them.
I see no difference in my advice, based on my experience.
I hope that all is going well for you and your plan is working for you.
-
The premarin is from pregnant HORSES,not mules, and the facebook debate is making my blood boil, as someone is saying all HRT is made from pregnant horses urine
And yes it does sound like you are saying people shouldn't take it, based on your experience
Women know how bad they feel and can make their own minds up, without anyone, saying what they should and shouldn't take,
Advice is given on here, but no one is told that they should or shouldn't take it
I have used HRT for a very long time, and probably for much longer than you did,so have lots of experience of it
I am also pretty sure that all the ADVICE you have given these ladies have looked into, at some time or another, so nothing new to them,
Are you some kind of dietition too?
Oh and by the way, a mule is a cross between a horse and a donkey and can't reproduce
-
The premarin is from pregnant horses,not mules, and the facebook debate is making my blood boil, as someone is saying all HRT is made from pregnant horses urine
And yes it does sound like you are saying people shouldn't take it, based on your experience
Women know how bad they feel and can make their own minds up, without anyone, saying what they should and shouldn't take,
Advice is given on here, but no one is told that they should or shouldn't take it
I have used HRT for a very long time, and probably for much longer than you did,so have lots of experience of it
I am also pretty sure that all the ADVICE you have given these ladies have looked into, at some time or another, so nothing new to them,
Are you some kind of dietition too?
jaycee, you are sounding very angry, but it doesn't help the debate. I was once told on this very forum, that I couldn't have suffered during peri otherwise would have taken HRT. Not nice.
There is a lot of hurt feelings on both sides of the debate, unfortunately, and a lot of ladies who opt for alternatives end up leaving because they feel they are not welcome.
No one here is an expert. We can only advise on personal experience but debate is healthy surely. If you read the first post on the 'HRT good or bad' thread, Dr. Currie invites us to do just that.
-
Well said Shady, it does seem that a lot of women really don’t like hearing about how bad hrt can be for some of us, but I agree, I think it should be interesting to hear the facts from both.
Jaycee, as I say, I’m not on Facebook. I don’t know about this chatter that is obviously making you angry.
I just read about Premarin. You are quite right. It’s from pregnant mares urine. Fortunately there are other humaine choices.
I’m pleased to hear that hrt has worked so long and well for you. I think many other women also take it for a long time too.
You are correct, I did say that someone should stop hrt. That is because the question/topic was « should I give up hrt » I said yes and gave my reasons, given that she’s having a bad time on it. Others say she should not give it up. So, you see, advice from all angles. You just don’t like mine.
All the best..
-
https://d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/300/BLOG-Menopause-New-Black.pdf
https://d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/297/12_BMS_ConsensusStatement_Primary_prevention_of_coronary_heart_disease_in_women_01A.01.pdf
Hi Ladies, a couple of readind material I found interesting .
PeppermintyX
-
https://d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/300/BLOG-Menopause-New-Black.pdf
https://d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/297/12_BMS_ConsensusStatement_Primary_prevention_of_coronary_heart_disease_in_women_01A.01.pdf
Hi Ladies, a couple of readind material I found interesting .
PeppermintyX
Wow, thank you Pepperminty, all positive on the CHD front especially if you start HRT below the age of 60...X
-
Thanks pepperminty, great to share!! x
-
As far as I'm concerned, hrt worked for me, and works for a lot of ladies, however, if someone prefers to go down the more natural route, and it works for them then GREAT....
My SIL used wild yam, and swore it helped her enormously....
Good luck to the ladies who want to try anything, without trying, we don't know what's going to work for any of us who are suffering....what works for me, might NOT work for you, and vice versa, we can only comment on our own findings really...
-
Shadyglade,i am sorry if i do sound angry, but i don't like Jari pushing her advice,as if it is the right thing to do,
Everyone has their own experience, and if Jari has had a bad one i am sorry, but lots of others have good experiences, and i do feel she is trying to get people to quit HRT
RE;the facebook debate,it has got pretty nasty by all sides really, with whoever stared saying women should do what their mothers had to do, in otherwords grin and bear it, and "menopause never killed anyone" while of course the other side are saying how some womwn feel suicidal, etc
I will shut up about this now, but please Jari, stop pushing your ideas on people,just because you had a bad experience,
Yes it might take time to get the right HRT for some, and they might decide it isn't worth it, but i am sure they can make their own minds up
-
Absolutely jillydolly! :)
-
Margherita, i hope you can decide what to do with all the different advice... sorry that the hrt is making you feel so bad, but I hope you can find a solution soon. X
-
The written word is static. But I haven't yet met anyone who can sort vaginal atrophy with a diet ::)
I have a good diet these days. I also had repeated urine infection-type symptoms but those urine samples that were sent to a Lab. didn't show any growth so my on-the-ball GP rang and told me to pick up a prescription for vaginal atrophy treatment. Which has worked wonders, 4 me it was like razor blades up there :o. I also use KYJelly when the area becomes itchy. 'vaseline' for legs, feet, arms .......
-
CLKD, just a thought, but I’m doing a recommended diet, exercise, good supplements and I’ve never had VA. Yet?!
So, maybe those who don’t have it are doing something right?! Just a consideration.
It sounds like you have struggled quite a bit with it and I’m wondering if you have checked your ph level? It’s just a thought, but maybe your diet is too acidic.. ?! X
-
CLKD, just a thought, but I'm doing a recommended diet, exercise, good supplements and I've never had VA. Yet?!
So, maybe those who don't have it are doing something right?! Just a consideration.
It sounds like you struggle quite a bit with it and I'm wondering if you have checked your ph level? It's just a thought, but maybe your diet is too acidic.. ?! X
You will definitely know when you get VA
-
Jaycee, I'm sorry that you really don't like hearing anything bad about hrt, but no, I won't stop telling my experiences with it, if it helps someone who is also having a bad time on it.
Just because it doesn't suit you to hear it, doesn't mean you can tell people to be quiet.
I'm not telling everyone to stop hrt, I've just said to ladies who are having a bad time with it, that it could be an idea to try without. As I have done.
Sorry you can't handle comments that don't agree with yours, but this is open debate to try and give good feedback and to help ladies make up their own minds as to what might suit them.
-
Right, time out!!...Can we not bring an end to this?? Ran out of space on the naughty step, its a staircase now!! :rofl: :beat:
-
Just one small point. Only 50% of women get VA.
-
I agree Foxylady!! :rofl:
-
Hallelujah.!!! Had to keep my lips closed tight and my fingers off the keyboard as to not pipe in !!!!
Just want to add tho....have to...i have always been super healthy..and natural body rhythms...ie no pill etx for long time so hormones all been left to own balance. I eat well..rest better....go gym....cook from scratch...havetried EVERY natural remedy and supplment going....and every holistic therapy going..but my body just needs what it does - hormones replacing.
This is a bit of a terrifying ride...and as strong minded as i am its also left me feeling vulnerable. This group has been a godsend....x
-
JMargaret....same for me. xxx
-
Hi Margherita :welcomemm:. I'm sorry you are having problems with your HRT regime but as I've come late to this thread & you have had some good advice from the other ladies, I would simply like to add that I agree with the suggestions to try & get a menopause clinic appointment if you can, or failing that, perhaps swap Utrogestan for MPA - a simpler switch than having a Mirena fitted in the first instance. I think you are right to defer starting testosterone as some of your symptoms made me think of PCOS, in which raised T can be problematic. I am not suggesting you have PCOS but simply that T may worsen some of your existing symptoms all the while your main HRT may be unbalanced. Please let us know how you get on & don't be deterred from posting again by the aggro that has arisen on this thread.
Wx
-
Whilst I think an invaluable aspect of this forum is the range of views & experiences shared, I also feel that the open-minded, supportive nature of most posters very much helps make it feel a welcoming arena. Black & white views form part of the spectrum but I think a little care/moderation in the way these are expressed is called for, or at least responsible, given so many of us come to MM vulnerable & frightened.
Like many members, I would far rather have gone through menopause without HRT & had good reason for avoiding it. However, I struggled terribly with very difficult symptoms for more than a decade, before taking what felt like the only remaining responsible step, of giving HRT a serious trial. Had I met with the sort of discouragement & sweeping statements expressed on this thread at a time of great worry & fear, this would have added considerably to my dilemma & the distress of the decision I faced.
I hope that as a result of what they may have read on this thread, no-one has been put off trying or persevering with HRT, which may have much-needed, wide-ranging beneficial effects on their short & long-term health, wellbeing & ability to continue with their lives. I usually prefer to avoid conflict but I'm sorry to say the manner in which some views have been aired on this thread has left me dismayed.
-
Wrensong .... you have worded that very well and have said exactly what I've been thinking. Thanks for that xx
-
Wrensong, I hear you. I'm afraid I do have strong feelings against hrt and that is because of the horrendous side effects it gave me, which were very frightening at the time.
Of course I know that many ladies like hrt and it works well for them, which is great.
I was encouraged to go on hrt by people on this forum, singing its praises... because it had obviously worked well for them. I did and I wish I hadn't, but hey that's hindsight.. and yes I was vulnerable at the time. So it goes both ways, but its good to see both points of view..
-
Thanks wrensong...like Dotty..I agree with all youve said. Im one of the frightened and vulnerable newbies.
Jari - also appreciate what you say and agree always good to hear 2 sides...but its different when you start saying "you should stop" . As wrensong said (or along the lines of) - there are better ways of wording things. Ive noticed youre a real regular on this forum....but not have you shared your story (apols of you have and ive not seen) - ie - youre journey with hrt except to say how bad for you it was. I believe you - as i know it affects everybody differently..and not the way forward for many....but when sharing we need to do just that - share....and keep open minds and hearts and kind discussions. Were all walking alongside one another.....hrt or not.
Im day 3 off utrogestan after alternate eves since 4 months ago. Have a headache....cant be bothered...etc.
Still applying my 2 bit pumps gel see how i go.....then look to start a cycle. Still afraid and vulnerable....but still here to hold and accept hands to hold! Xx
-
Totally agree Wrensong....well said.....👍🏻
-
Jmargaret, you say I have not shared my experiences, but, yes you have obviously just not read them, as, believe me, I have, but of course I am happy to explain it to you.
Sorry ladies if you’ve heard it all before. ;)
Jmargaret, I’m 49. I had no peri symptoms. My periods stopped aged 47. So I’m now 1 year post menopause.
Around the time that my periods stopped I started to get the odd hot flush/night sweat.
This was all new to me as I’d had no peri symptoms like this. So it was all new to me. They gradually increased and a year down the line they had become very intense. Not nice at all.
I joined this forum.
The responses I got were to go to my gp and get on hrt.
I went to my gp and to my (naive) surprise, she absolutely refused due to family breast cancer history. I did not expect this, but now completely respect why she said this.
I came back from the gp at a loss and feeling pretty awful still with horrible daily and nightly sweats. Lack of sleep etc.
I explained all this on the forum. The responses I got were that gp’s don’t know what they’re talking about and that I should see a menopause specialist to get on hrt. I did this. I travelled to London to see a well known specialist. I had a very rushed appointment, due to a waiting room full of ladies waiting to see him. He gave me his usual gel/ utrogestan prescription and told me to come back every 3 months. At a huge cost of course.
I was relieved at the time and thought I’d be prepared to keep paying this if it stopped the sweats etc.
A couple of weeks taking it, 2 pumps that is, i started to be constantly hungry. I also noticed mild breathlessness.
I decided to reduce to 1 pump per day, but the breathlessness continued to get worse. I put on a stone in weight.
At around 8 weeks of taking it I was at the stage of gasping for breath and could hardly breathe, which was quite frightening as I live alone.
I called the specialist and had to go back for another appointment at another huge cost. I was told to stop taking straight away and to give it a month to see if it was the hrt causing this. The breathing symptoms went. I then had to go back for another follow up appointment at another cost as they wanted to do a scan to check my womb lining, at another cost. I was told the hrt had caused a fibroid to grow and it was small, but I should book in for an appointment as this can hide potential cancer growths. I was told this had happened to other ladies and I should have it removed... at another cost... I declined. By this point I was so relieved that the symptoms had gone and although my flushes had started to return, they were no-where near as bad as before. So, totally freaked out by hrt, I decided to follow a natural approach which includes certain foods, good supplements and exercise. I do still have warm flushes and feel warm at night sometimes, but this feels like it is getting better all the time. Fingers crossed.
Some ladies say that one has to take hrt to prevent osteoporosis. I think that might be one option, but with good diet etc, I’m hoping I am avoiding it. I’m having a bone scan tomorrow out of interest to see if I am achieving that.
I’m happy to explain my experience jmargaret and if any questions please do ask. I’m happy to explain. All the best. X
-
Ahh thank you Jari. And apols if i came across harsh...didnt mean too. Youve probably gathered i too am at a loss and feeling lost and unsure of who i am....never mind wtf ifs happening .ha!
I understand why you feel as you do..I would too, and no doubt all the rest of our ladies here would too. Gosh 8 weeks isnt a long time is it.....and you said fibroids due to the hrt? I keep worrying that cos im on gel alone (for now) that i am at risk. Ahh i wont harp on..as youre probably all bored of my posts singing the same song! I have a headache...and still.in pjs...and a fab holiday to prep for for thurs and just wanna have a nap. Ive become the nap queen! (Still managed my gym and weights yesterday though so was justified haha)
Thanks again for sharing.
X
-
Thanks Wrensong. In some ways it's to be expected that emotions run high here because the stakes and anxiety are so high when it comes to all things menopause. I've appreciated input on all your experiences which I realise are all different.
-
Jaycee, some hrt's are made from pregnant mules urine, not horses I don't think?
Some are plant based..
I agree that people should of course make their own minds up whether to take hrt or not and I think it's good to hear all experiences of taking hrt, good and bad!? Right?
The HRT made from equine urine is made from horses not mules but what difference does that make anyway,it's still way beyond cruel, those treatments are very rarely used nowadays ( although I did speak to someone on Premarin this morning on FB but I'm not sure where in the world she is) it is still used in the USA but not normally in the uk, all the new common brands of HRT are plant based from yams
-
My over-all good diet has no effect on my vaginal atrophy. Hormones however, did - apparently ::) i.e. dropping off of oestrogen levels = dryness inside and out. I was well passed my last bleed when these symptoms began [too tired to work how how long] and fortunately, my GP was on the ball :-*
-
Jari, thank you for taking the time to explain on this thread your aversion to HRT. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience, which must have been very frightening, especially as you say you live alone. In common with many members, I've also had very unpleasant & at time frightening reactions to some elements of past HRT regimes, so it's testament to how unwell menopause can make us feel & how much that disrupts our lives, that we persevere with it. It's certainly not a choice for the faint hearted, but I think most of us research before taking that leap of faith & accept that the consequences can be good as well as bad, as is sadly the case with most forms of medication.
I sense you're angry too about the expense involved in private healthcare & I can well understand that, given what happened to you. We are very lucky to have the NHS & my own exposure to private healthcare in recent years (when the NHS has not been able to meet my needs) has shown me just how expensive are many of the procedures we take for granted on the NHS. It must have felt like adding insult to injury that each time you needed help with the serious consequences of trialling the HRT you had so needed to work well for you, there was another hefty bill to pay.
As I recently said to you on another thread, I think all views & histories are valid on this forum, as imo it's important to be as informed as possible & think very carefully about HRT before starting it, during use it & even afterwards, keeping an open mind, receptive to new research & others' experiences that may be relevant to our individual, possibly changing circumstances.
However, I also think it's important to be as sure of facts as we can before we post & to think about how what we want to say may affect others. We can't know for sure or in detail the mental state or circumstances of those reading the forum & every time I post on any topic that's not just light-hearted, the responsibility of it weighs heavily on my mind. There seems to me always the potential for unwittingly causing harm or distress & I don't think anyone posting here would want to do that.
I think your experience in managing your symptoms naturally is potentially very valuable to the forum, so if you can share that in a positive way I'm sure many members would find it both interesting & helpful. Successful coping strategies are so valuable at a time when many of us feel we have no control over the devastation menopause is wreaking on our lives, so I think you could do much good if you choose to help out in that way.
I hope you continue to be lucky enough & well enough to manage without HRT - the ideal scenario for many of us. :)
-
Thank you Wrensong.
I am sorry to anyone that I may have upset by my candid opinions on hrt, but my experience of it was not a good one and when I read other ladies that are having a bad time with it too or are questioning it, it makes me want to help them and not go through what I did.
It also freaked me out quite a bit as I honestly hadn't realised how powerful and what effects it can have. For some...
I am very aware that it can work well for some ladies.
You are quite right that my approach was too harsh and I will be gentler in future! Noted!
X
-
Hi Jmargaret - I'm sure no-one is at all bored with your posts, so please keep posting. We're all here to listen & do what we can to help each other. I imagine there are times when the description frightened applies to many of us - there are so many uncertainties & unknowns still about HRT & shockingly, even menopause itself. It feels sometimes as though we are all guinea pigs & that's one reason the support, generosity & kindness of the wonderful ladies who share so openly on this forum helps & fortifies us & why it can mean so much.
-
Bless you Jari. I'll look forward to reading your tips on how we can all ease our journey naturally - those of us who use HRT may benefit too.
-
Move over JMargaret as I can sleep for England ;D. Especially when there's a programme that I really want to see on TV :D ::) - I wake hearing the Credits !
-
Hi ladies- late to this post so apologies for throwing in my views at the last minute. I'm on HRT and 4 years plus in, I'm still not convinced that it's great for me, I just don't want to go back to how bad I was before. But there's only one way of finding out...
Based on my conversation with Professor Lumsden at Glasgow Royal Infirmary ( she contributed to the NICE guidelines on HRT ) she was firmly of the belief that HRT could be hugely beneficial. However, she admitted it just didn't work for some women and her view was that if it made you feel better, go ahead and keep taking it. If it didn't make you feel better, stop taking it. Quite simple really.
We are all different. We just need to find out what works and be prepared to be open minded that there is no one size fits all. We've all got to try and support one another through this s**tstorm stage of life. We have enough to contend with dealing with the non believers...x
-
Hi ladies- late to this post so apologies for throwing in my views at the last minute. I'm on HRT and 4 years plus in, I'm still not convinced that it's great for me, I just don't want to go back to how bad I was before. But there's only one way of finding out...
Based on my conversation with Professor Lumsden at Glasgow Royal Infirmary ( she contributed to the NICE guidelines on HRT ) she was firmly of the belief that HRT could be hugely beneficial. However, she admitted it just didn't work for some women and her view was that if it made you feel better, go ahead and keep taking it. If it didn't make you feel better, stop taking it. Quite simple really.
We are all different. We just need to find out what works and be prepared to be open minded that there is no one size fits all. We've all got to try and support one another through this s**tstorm stage of life. We have enough to contend with dealing with the non believers...x
Seems sensible to me,if it doesn't help you just stop taking it,if it does help you carry on,I also think we have to make sure we give it enough time to actually work ,a lot of people think they will get results straight away and it can take a while to kick in,also if you have been on it a while you need to be aware of where you are with the menopause itself because your hormone needs will vary depending on whether you are peri menopausal,menopause or post menopausal
-
I second that. Sounds logical.