Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: orrla on January 03, 2019, 02:50:17 PM
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Hi all!
Happy new year!
I thought I ask because I have weird symptoms on my legs that my GP seem to have problem with accurately diagnosing.
It first showed up at side above my knee on one leg, then on sides of calf on another. When I showed them to him he said it was fungus infection. it was mid July. None of medication worked and eventually it responded to steroid cream, suppressing it a little but not making it go. Since then I had biopsy of two other patches on my skin lower down, I had for last 5 years or so, for which I got a cream for cancer cells but it did not work. After biopsy other patches showed up, now 7 different in total, including on my foot. My legs tend to swell a lot, and feel as if I walk on broken glass when I get up. Skin around ankles and up feels tight. I also got a rush on my head, and on my face, from few weeks ago. Whatever it is it is growing, so obviously, I am worried.
Now, because my HRT was changed from Evorel 100 to Evorel Conti in June, today I am wondering if it could have something to do with this.
Had any of you ever experienced anything similar?
My next appointment is next week, with GP, and hopefully biopsy result will be ready but, is this really dermatological stuff or symptom of something more serious, like veins or nerves going weird..I wonder.
Pls, tell me what you think!
Thanks!
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How strange! Some find that they have sensitivity to the fillers or packaging in medications. Was it red, itchy, below the skin or raised?
Psoriasis?
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No it is not itchy at all, other than my head. I used T/Gel shampoo for 5 weeks but it done nothing, apart from less itchiness. Flaky patches I feel under my fingers, as I can't see them..
One on legs are 4 different looks. GP first said it was ringworm, then psioritis, and than when I saw dermatologist for the older one, she said that if it did not respond to any fungus treatment but it did to steroid, it must be eczema, and gave me moisturiser to use and steroid.
Well, three new ones showed up since, different under arch of my foot, and twin to one they took biopsy of, after which I had to take an antibiotic because it was not healing.. When I think they are gone, and stop using cream, they come up again.
Yes, they are raised, bit sharpish in feel, and sort of round. They are all on lower legs so quite tricky to examin.
I am really fed up with cream application twice per day for last six months with no effect whatsoever.
What new showed lately was my feet burning at night, and feeling sort of like paper. I looked up and it said one can get that with nerve damage..
I will not stop taking HRT to check because I may fall apart if I do. ..but I wonder if there may be something in that Conti patch that makes me allergic.. or that lowering a dose exposes all what was hidden under a higher one?
Estrogen works on skin as well, after all..?
My Meno appointment is next May, so long time yet..
I hope it is not skin cancer!!
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A dermatologist would have spotted anything that looks like cancer. Also it rarely comes up as you describe.
My initial thought was ringworm. But it is most likely to be sensitivity to the patch/HRT.
Have you shown a Pharmacist?
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Hello orria,
Skin cancer doesn't have this presentation. It could be a reaction to anything really, including HRT, but from what you've said I would bet it's a fungus.
How long have you been on anti-fungal treatment? Do you remember the name of the drug(s)?
Fungal infection is hard to treat and so is the immune response that comes along with it, called type IV hypersensitivity. This is often treated with corticosteroids along with the anti-fungal agents and sometimes it takes a long time to get rid of it. If you're only on topical steroids now but the fungus is still present the steroids decrease your immune response and the fungus will spread. The biopsy may or may not show if there is fungal infection, because they are hard to pinpoint. Meanwhile I would ring your GP and ask if you could stop the steroids and change moisturiser because some can actually help the fungus spread (they love humidity).
As a side note, if you could take a photo and post, it would be easier to help. When you say they have different looks, that rings a bell as a decreased immune response, another reason to stop the topical or oral steroids.
Conolly X
PS: I have burning feet since perimenopause and now that I'm postmenopause I also have burning hands, arms and sometimes back and legs, so this could be another hormonal symptom not related to the rashes.
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But that would be pretty severe reaction! Possible?
No, I made appointment for next Wednesday. They said at hospital 4 to 6 weeks for resuls, so he hopefully will have them by than.
That swelling is pretty uncomfortable, too.
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Is the swelling just on ankles? That could be another side effect of too much steroids. Is it a cream or tablets?
Conolly X
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I forgot to ask, why have you changed from Evorel to Evorel conti? What sort of progesterone were you taking along with Evorel?
Rash erythematous and oedema are listed as common side-effects of Evorel conti, so maybe it would be a good idea to stop using it for a couple of days to see if the rashes change appearance.
Conolly X
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Hi, Conolly!
Creams I used were:
Daktarin - 6 weeks / nothing
Terbafine cream and tablets - 4 weeks
I also bough Canesten and F....., fro chemist...None worked.
Travogen and Travacourt, together, once each each day, and here was the response at last, after two weeks, but it keeps coming back!
I now use Eumovate cream, that does nothing and new ones are coming up.. Moisturiser is called Epaderm.
When I started this, a rash on my face started showing. At first I though it could be that moisturiser (not on face) causing it but because at about that time I thought I will use herbs, and drank Red Clover for four weeks, it could be that they caused it. I stoped, it went down but comes up still. Hydrocortison seems to help it a bit.
To be honest I feel lost as to which one I suppose to use now and on which! Most goes straight into clothes anyway.
I'll fiddle with pictures bit later, ok?
Thanks!
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...
I had Mirena, it was running out. Evorel was 100 for quite a few years. I am now 63 and she decided I need to go on lower dose.
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My legs tend to swell since Meno. but never as bad as recently. Last spring my skin behind ankles, above hill was cracking. GP gave me some ointment..that done nothing.. and told to wear stockings. So they kept swelling, ...than that fungi came up..
Swelling is above ankles mainly, but feet can puff up too if I sit a lot. Got discomfort in front of my shins all way up to my knees. Sort of tingling, tightness, ****les, that makes me want to rub them. Calves are tight too, heels can be aiky, feet under tingly and first few steps always ...weird. That's because they are swollen! Socks annoy me. Cut off elastic from many pairs by now because it is precisely there where socks end where is most uncomfortable, that bent from foot to leg..
As you can see I am running out of vocabulary here, by now..;)
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Could this be an allergy problem to something external. You say it comes back when you stop using the cream. That says to me that it's something your skin comes into contact with and the cream acts as a barrier.
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Thank you, orria. That's a whole lotta drugs! I'll have a look later on to see if they could have messed up with your immune system.
Mirena has levonorgestrel and Evorel conti has norethisterone acetate, so that could be an allergic reaction to noresthisterone.
Running out of vocabulary but not of humour ;)
Conolly X
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ha ha!
Thanks!
Yes, I went for Mirena, three in total, because had awful reaction to progesterone! It fits!..?
It was causing severe anxiety that eased with Mirena but not that it was gone. I wish I used Testosterone earlier because it helped with that too. And now, after that switch to Conti, something with that anxiety improved too. So...where am I with that all?.. Bl.. meno!! wrrrr!
I looked up in a meantime here, https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/erythema-nodosum
and indeed, when my fungi or whatever seem gone, it looks like bruise - and then in few days red dot appears in a middle, and spreads..! In places it looks as if it is peeling, flaky skin I don't touch in case..
Many thanks for telling me this is not cancer, because..you know, perhaps, how it all grew in my mind by now! ;)
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Ankle/feet swelling can be a sign of water retention. Have you been advised to sleep/sit with legs raised above hip level? This can also be connected to heart problems.
Diabetes in your family?
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Thanks,
Yes, it is water retention ..ever since that bl... meno.
And, I remember, after I first complained to my GP about it, she told me to keep my feet up, which I did, until I accidentally looked at them and noticed that one is much wider than the other.
So, I run to orthopaedicst who prescribed insoles, and told me that this was from not walking enough.
And indeed, they get better with walking. But my trouble are winters! Socks, heavy shoes, cold, insoles, bla, bla.
My feet feel best at beach in summer! ;)
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So do mine ;D
Swollen ankles can also be kidney related, but if they get better with walking is likely to be poor circulation. Diabetes, thyroid problems, hypertension, obesity are amongst the common causes.
I had a look at the link you've posted regarding erythema nodosum, but I didn't see you mentioning that your rashes are lumps and feel warm. Do they?
Red clover can cause basically the same effects of oestrogen, including rash-like reactions. Epaderm is quite safe and couldn't be the cause. You have tried a bunch of anti-fungal meds, but have you taken them along with cortisone?
Can you think of any other symptoms that might be related to this? I know it's hard to pinpoint specific symptoms when we're in menopause, we seem to have all symptoms!
Conolly X
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Thanks, Conelly! :)
Yes, my lifestyle is the main problem!
When I feel as if I was an already dead cat, what else could I do?
I am not obese although I did put some weight on, but I am still considered slim - 175 cm / 70 kg. currently... in my pre meno days more around 62...? No drastic change there, really..
Yes, I drink alcohol, and to be honest - between me and you - this is the problem..?!... or guilt...?
I had to go through the major change in my lifestyle, from very active to idle, due to...meno!
I hate it!
Yes, I wonder if the whole thing on my legs is not psychsomatic..!?
I am capable of developing such, I know from my twenties.. It took years to diagnose something then, that came from me in particular environment.
Now, again, I am HSP in a hostile environment..
..but the point is, what could I change!?
I can't change environment, not for a while at least, until I feel stronger; my diet works...sort of, I am not obese, ..and I am not prepared to give up fags or booze because they are the only things that keep me sane!
..and I did cut down a lot on them already, anyways.
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...it crossed my mind that perhaps I was boozing on wrong stuff - coop cheap wine vs. vodka?....
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Hello again, orria.
Psychosomatic? Hardly. Alcohol and HRT don't mix well though. To be honest, I envy you a bit. I used to love wine and tequila and now can't have any of them, blame it on menopause and migraines.
You're in very good shape compared to me and I don't drink, don't smoke and don't eat meat.
Fags is a different story. I think you should try to decrease and eventually stop. They really mess with your whole body.
Maybe a bit more physical activity will keep you sane, endorphins and all that. That's my New Year resolution!
Changing environment is important but very hard, so try changing your internal environment at least?
Conolly X
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Loads of good advice from the very wise Conolly. Hope your legs improve.
I completely understand how you need something to look forward to/turn to/enjoy/whatever you want to call it and so, yes, continue to enjoy a drink. But I'm sure the absolutely best thing you could ever do for yourself is try and ditch the fags. You've said you've already cut down so it shows you've got the willpower. Well done on that xx
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Thnx! :)
...well, Vodka, they say, is good for killing worms of all sorts...;) ..I am testing!!
I am desperate to find the solution!
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...that Red Clver, or arount that time, gave me a massive allergic reaction. I did not go to Christmas celebrations because I coughed like mad, and wondered if I developed asthma..
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Loads of good advice from the very wise Conolly. Hope your legs improve.
I completely understand how you need something to look forward to/turn to/enjoy/whatever you want to call it and so, yes, continue to enjoy a drink. But I'm sure the absolutely best thing you could ever do for yourself is try and ditch the fags. You've said you've already cut down so it shows you've got the willpower. Well done on that xx
More wise words. Both drink and cigarettes are bad for the circulation and the skin. Plus your medication makes too many chemicals in the mix. Sounds like you need a detox and cleanup.
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Yeah, you are great, Conelly!
Thank you for your attention!
:) ;) ::) 8) :o ::) :-* :-* :-*
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Yes, Shadyglafe, I am thinking about it.
They have in Poland these Sanatoria at places where are various mineral eaters, plus various treatments available at premises.
..so, I wonder..
If I went to one of those, and drunk some local mineral waters regularly, and let myself to be massaged and pampered all day, beside breathing fresh air and walking while admiring the beauty of local envitonment, would this help?! ..
Worth trying!...
..only, who will pay for all this!
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You shouldn't have to spend much at all, if you do it at home.
Fresh fruit and veg, wean yourself of the bad stuff and increase your exercise. Try joining a fitness club locally, so you can have some support. Introduce changes gradually and be kind to yourself.
An exercise and food journal also helps.
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You are right! This is how I fel, under the circumstances..
So, no coop vibe anymore, .. i eat salads already, smoke tobacco roll-ups, fewer of them, drink water
...what else?!
Walking!?!
Well I am next to a park, where since I moved there were 4 rapes, further few attempts, and two murders since I moved in seven years ago...
My neighbours won't speak to me, even window cleaner will not wash my windows - because I speak with accent... So they were dirty at Christmas ..
Now, yes, I pay for gym 7 min away...
I'll go there soon.
I promise!!!?!!!!
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Sorry!
As a HSP I tend to go deep. I apologise!
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What are you apologising for, dear? Are you a HSP for environmental or emotional stuff as well? I'm an Aspie, so I guess I also qualify as a HSP.
Conolly X
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Err, don't understand a word of that. ??? ::)
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HSP = highly sensitive person
Aspie = Asperger's syndrome disorder
We're the weirdos 😂
Conolly X
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Now I know why I loved you on instant!!! ;))
he he :)
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Ah, I thought it was some new street words. My sons find it hilarious when I don't understand. ;D
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Haha Shadyglade, it can also be some naughty street words https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php'term=HSP ;D
Conolly X
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Crumbs, I do live a sheltered life. ;)
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Hi there!
So, I managed to take few clear pictures, and checked dates. I was wrong. Mid June was when Mirena went out, but Evorel Conti started two or three months before. Also, from descriptions, and pics, of conditions in a leaflet, mine are different as none hurts. So, back to square one, really :(
Here is my foot, if anyone would like to admire..
(http://D:\2019\2019-01-03\DSC_0608 right foot.jpg)
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... sorry? Don't know how to attach ..
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Right Ladies!
The body 'de-toxes' itself. Continually. Otherwise we wouldn't have a liver or kidneys. The body also heals itself. To a certain degree.
We are hunter gathers. Not runners unless being chased. So running on the whole is bad for the body: stress fractures of ankles, feet, shin bones ......... brisk walking however, helps stave off osteoporosis, along with a mixed diet with calcium. Picking fruits from the hedgerows as we went as well as the odd mammoth shared with all the cave dwellers.
Going back to the 1950s, everyone in the countryside grew their own or knew someone who did and would barter any extras. Those with extra drove their crops to the markets in the nearby towns. No time to consider detoxing, pilates etc.. So that's exercise sorted: gardening, farming, walking, caring for stock. Rain, hail, sunshine. Went to bed at dusk and up at dawn. Chickens, ducks, geese, rabbits for the table at the bottom of the garden. Nothing was wasted. Some had a pig fattened for autumn slaughter.
Don't know how people coped in towns :-\ other than relying on foods transported into the weekly markets. Butchers slaughtered on site so food was fresh unless one thinks of the flies :-X. Butchers often raised their own or paid farmers.
As cars became accepted we exercised less. Usually Dad had the car to get to work, everyone else cycled :D. So again, exercising. Mum went apple picking in Sept., M in L had an allotment: 6 days a week, weeding, hoeing, planting, plucking, grading; waiting 4 the collection lorry to take produce to market. Then we got 2 cars >:(. I know I need to exercise more often: that is walking, running up stairs [carefully], finding some hills to strengthen thigh muscles. I don't make resolutions until I think it's necessary ;D. NOTE TO SELF ?
So cut out any thoughts of paying for detoxing. Exercise is free: walking costs nowt other than a good pair of boots, water proofs and a good water container. A bit of cash for a cuppa/bun half way round? If you want company, join ramblers? or your local Council Walk for Health Group. Nowt wrong with a massage, I get a pedicure token for C.mas which I will change up soon.
Getting the circulation going may be a starting point?
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Hello orria,
I think the only way to attach a photo is uploading it on an image hosting website (Google photos, Dropbox, Imgur and others). Once you've done it you will be able to copy a link to your photo and paste it over here.
Conolly X
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Ha! :)
Here they are:
https://1drv.ms/a/s!At7f8OUX9zSDghTt2x-JvRcc2xxK
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Thank you, orria. I will investigate, but they do look like what my sister had after a horse accident. Her diagnosis was 'Granuloma annulare'. It's a type IV hypersensitive immune reaction. Have a google and see if it rings a bell.
Conolly X
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Have just noticed I've been calling you orria! Sorry ;D too much reading these days ;D
My name has been misspelled as well, Connolly, Connely, Connelly. Next time I'll choose something simple ;D
Orrla, yessss!
Conolly X
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Erythrema Annulare Centrifugum is another possibility.
I would link a very good Medscape article with photos but you have to be registered (free) to see it. One of the causes is oestrogen and another is autoimmune progesterone dermatitis. Unfortunately it's a pay per view article and I'm a bit low on bread ::) https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(02)00065-8/pdf (https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(02)00065-8/pdf)
Conolly X
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;) .. I did not notice!
Thank you so much Conolly!!! You are so good!
:)
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I always read it as a small 'I' ...... :-\
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Thank you Conolly!
From how I see it there are at least three kinds there. One the biopsy was on is there five years at least, and doubled after they took a sample. Now it hurts slightly but it never did before. One on my foot started with a red dot, and grew.. None from the creams I have did anything to it... They all look bit dotty, really.
I think, I just need to wait till Wednesday to hear what my GP thinks.
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Sepsis begins with a small red dot :-\ ............
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Thank you Conolly!
From how I see it there are at least three kinds there. One the biopsy was on is there five years at least, and doubled after they took a sample. Now it hurts slightly but it never did before. One on my foot started with a red dot, and grew.. None from the creams I have did anything to it... They all look bit dotty, really.
I think, I just need to wait till Wednesday to hear what my GP thinks.
That's exactly how EAC looks like, it changes with time. You could ask your GP to have a look on Medscape website.
"Skin findings are as follows:
Primary lesion: The eruption begins as erythematous papules that spread peripherally while clearing centrally. These lesions enlarge at a rate of approximately 2-5 mm/d to produce annular, arcuate, figurate, circinate, or polycyclic plaques, as shown in the images below. The margin, which is usually indurated, varies in width from 4-6 mm, and, often, a trailing scale is present on the inner aspect of the advancing edge. The diameter of the polycyclic lesions varies from a few to several centimeters. Vesiculation may be present.
Distribution: Lesions demonstrate a predilection for the thighs and the legs, but they may occur on the upper extremities, the trunk, or the face. The palms and the soles are spared.
Color: The lesions are pink to red with central clear areas. Occasionally, residual hyperpigmentation of dull red, brown, or violet is present. A case of EAC associated with hyperbilirubinemia and jaundice secondary to choledocholithiasis has been reported."
It's a long article and it's intended for professionals, so your GP will love it! ;)
Conolly X
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Thanks CLKD!
I liked your reminder to lead healthy lifestyle. I look forward to Spring!
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Maybe keep reminding me too ::). We have a thread here about cycling ......... but the roads R SO bad around here! too many potholes.
Skipping or hoola hoop anyone?
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A friend of my husband has just been diagnosed with varicose eczema. I checked it out on the NHS Web site and it seems very like what you discribe.
Worth checking out.
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Thank you, Shadyglade!
I'll let you know what GP says.
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Well, Shadyglade..
Bingo!
Vericose eczema it is!
Walked out with yet another cream...
But it is pretty terrifying how all that diagnosing went..
I showed than one patch to my GP, in 2013. Five years later, numerous consultations, incl. at hospital, biopsy, several creams, five years later ...7 patches more!
If this cream I just got will not work, I will go nuts!
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Hello orrla,
So glad you've found an answer! What has your GP suggested for treatment (s)?
Well done, Shadyglade :clapping:
Conolly X
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So pleased you have an answer. :)
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Hi Conolly!
Thank you! :)
Well, this is what worries me because I told him which creams I see improvement with but, he gave me a different one again! biopsy confirmed eczema theory. It is a potent topical steroid cream called Lotriderm.
The other ones I got abroad, where I was in September and had opportunity to see a dermatologist there. I am not sure if they are available in UK, but I see one listed at uK national eczema site.. so am thinking of asking my local pharmacist bit later, when out.
But let's hope that Lotriderm works ...or I will go nuts!!!
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That's odd, because Lotriderm has an antifungal as well as a corticosteroid.
Maybe he thinks you also have a fungal infection?
Anyway, whatever it is, that's exactly the sort of medication I thought you should be on from the very beginning, so fingers crossed for you.
And don't forget to cut back on the fags 😉
Conolly X
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he he ;)
Well, as I understood, it was fungi inflammation that tends to show up on side of legs of older women with bad circulation and varicose veins.
He was not bothered with veins or circulation, diagnosed it as fungi, either someone's or my own, and gave various antifungal creams.
At the hospital they said that if it responded to these two creams I got abroad, and which I just checked are not available in UK, it must be eczema, meaning it was my own fungi. ..that decided to grow ;) Pity that what they gave me than only helped it to spread..
If this one does not work I'll ask someone from abroad to get them for me. I am tired by this fungi saga..really, 21st century!
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and..
Thank you all for your helpfull support!
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Understood ;) You're welcome!
What are the other creams, if you don't mind me asking? I have a blood clotting disorder and vascular fragility so varicose veins are amongst my probable future problems.
Fungal infections are far more difficult to treat than bacterial because fungal cells are just like our own, so most oral drugs have very serious side effects and the topical ones take a long time to work.
Conolly X
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I took an oral one, Terbinafine, and it did not work..
One that seem to work are Travogen and Travacort, applied one at time, one in mornings, other at evenings, covered with breathable dressing, both by Bayer.
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Thank you, orrla.
I had a quick look and apparently Travogen has just the anti-fungal agent while Travocort has the same agent plus a corticosteroid. interesting regimen.
Conolly X
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hmm, and in what way are they similar to the one I got tooday..?..Lotriderm..?
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Only similarity is that it also contains an anti-fungal agent and a corticosteroid, but they are different.
Travocort has isoconazole nitrate and diflucortolone valerate while Lotriderm has clotrimazole and betamethazone dipropionate.
Conolly X
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right >:(
Should I book my flights...?
I will give a week, to see if it does anything ???
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Don't be mad, yet ;D
They are different meds so it's likely they will work. Keep positive. A week isn't enough for results, you'll have to stick with this treatment for at least 3 months :-*
Conolly X
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;)
You are right I am mad >:(
..thing is that, last Friday, after talking to you here, I decided to stop using all they gave me here in UK, and go back to these two creams - and by today I had a visible improvement!
You were right that that moisturiser and plain steroid cream I got at a hospital only helped them to spred, and old ones inflame again..
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As long as you stick to Lotriderm for at least 3 months you'll be fine because it has both meds that you need, and a change of anti-fungal and corticosteroid is actually a good idea, our body becomes 'tolerant' very easily to long term use of meds, and it avoids selecting resistant strains of the fungus.
Good luck and keep us posted :-*
Conolly X
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My Dad had 'athletes' foot and was prescribed 'mycil' powder. Regularly.
My dog had mange, caused by foxes leaving mites in the grass. Took ages to diagnose ::)
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Thanks Conolly!
..leaflet says 2 - 4 weeks, but if no improvement after few days, should see my doctor.
Yes, CLKD, dermatology is like black magic. No one knows ;)
Bye for now!
Best! :)