Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Marsha11 on December 31, 2018, 12:45:21 AM
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Anyone have an update on the shortage of Femseven conti. I have a part owed prescription due to lack of stock; I have 3 weeks left of patches and feel really frustrated, as I have terrible side effects with Evorel and tablets do not work for me. I think the progesterone in Femseven is perfect for me and there doesn't seem to be any other patches that contain this? What is going on. I read Teva has said it is now Theramax that will take over productuction, but other info says Teva bought out Theramax, so feel they are giving the users the run around - it's disgraceful! :(
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I have just emailed them again asking for an update. If we all do this we might get an answer.
[email protected]
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Received an email instantly. They are basically saying they do not have a clue when it will be available and to discuss other options with your GP!! :(
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Angel that's exactly what I was told.. :'(
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Lloyd's Pharmacy rang them and they were just as vague. I find it absolutely unbelievable that they can pull a product like this. OK it's not a life dependant product, but it is a life changing one; at least it was for me. I think I will email the manufacturers and yes I believe the more pressure we put them under, we might just get them to realise the significance of what they have done!
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Hi
I too emailed a few places about Femseven as doc had told me this was great patch with great results , I was being moved over from everol conti to Femseven ..
Going by what emails I've received they don't even know if the patch will ever be available again ( I'm I not Ireland )
So I'm back onto my everol conti and isn't helping me much to be honest ..
email that a received few days ago from makers of Femseven kinda told me not to be holding my breath waiting for it to be available...
Kaz x
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Hello ladies,
Bloody shame. Actually, besides Teva, Netherlands, there is another manufacturer of the patches - LTS, Lohmann Therapie Systeme from Germany - so maybe another UK pharmaceutical company will be able to buy from them in the near future.
There has been a change in Drug Tariff of many estradiol products in June 2018, including FemSeven, so maybe this is the cause of discontinuation, published in May 2018. https://psnc.org.uk/our-news/drug-tariff-watch-june-2018-changes/ (https://psnc.org.uk/our-news/drug-tariff-watch-june-2018-changes/) and a change of companies granted with the parallel import licence in August 2018.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/740592/Monthly_PLPI_listing_August_2018.pdf
Conolly X
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I thought someone reported on here a while back that the manufacturers said it was being reformulated specifically re the adhesive - (which would be a good thing judging by the many reports that they are difficult to remain stuck)
rather than anything to do with the supply chain?
Here is the thread https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40881.msg648746.html#msg648746
and here is the post:
I am also px FemSeven Conti, and am told by Teva (manufacturer) that they are not supplying this item again until the 'last quarter' of 2019 (Oct-Dec) due to a change in its adhesive component 😔
As a result of this I have been scrabbling around trying to get a few boxes in hand, but I will not have enough to see me tho 12 months ..
This patch has suited me very well, and I am gutted at the prospect of having to (temporarily) switch px. I am worried about the progesterone in Evorel not suiting me (I have menopausal anxiety and depression). I am seeing my Meno Consultant again in Nov, and will seek her advise re the most suitable alternative.
Sounds like if there is to be a reformulation the new manufacturer is not providing info on the timescale or maybe they don't know?
Hurdity x
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Hi, I had just read a post on a Mumsnet thread...the poster says she has managed to get femseven conti again via a Morrison's pharmacy, so I am wondering (hoping desperately ) if it is back in supply. Has anyone heard anything else about it? I was really disappointed with Theramax who just sent me a generic email telling me to see my GP for alternatives. Not very impressive for a company that claims to lead the way in women's health. I managed to get a supply online late last year, but only have a months worth left and everywhere else is now out of stock. Everol conti doesn't suit me at all, I bleed and get awful stomach cramps.
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I have a feeling that the Mumsnet poster's haul may have been a fluke as all my enquires have been that it is still not being manufactured. I have persisted with Evorel Conti and things have settled down but I would still go back to Femseven given half a chance.
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Hiya ladies.
I telephoned 10 different pharmacies. The general concensus was it will be many months. A couple said December 19.
It's not even as if there Is another brand with the same ingredients.
I mentioned to GP about the issue and she said "it's the same with all these products. I'm being changed to the gel (haven't got the scrip yet. And she said you might find the same issue with that,
WHAAAT????
It's just not good enough.
The thought of running out and having a crash or having to change from a drug you get on with is realy scary for us. It's stress we don't need.
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Indeed. The lady on Mumsnet is trying to find out more .... it seems they had a pack of 12 on the shelf of the pharmacy but couldn't get any more. I think it's important to keep the pressure up on Theramex who have taken over manufacturer from Teva. They continue to advertise the product on their website in the Estradiol form. Why is that available and not the combined conti form?
http://www.theramex.com/products/
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It's a small comfort to know some of you are feeling the exact same anxiety over the FemSeven Conti discontinuation as me. The person that mentioned in a thread that a German manufacturer supply transdermal patches so I need to find out from them if a pharmaceutical company are using them to feed the same proportions of estradiol and levonorgestrel. If so and I dont know how it will work :-\ (perhaps a private prescription) to fulfil the prescription. Will update you if I get any news.
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Good luck Marsha x
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Thanks Marsha. That helps. I don't use Twitter although I do have an account. Thinking I might break my Twitter cherry (vile analogy, sorry) on Theramex.....shame on them.
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Hello ladies,
After more investigation, I think levonorgestrel containing patches are being discontinued worldwide, apparently because of sticking and size issues.
If you really want to stay on levonorgestrel you only have the oral option, which is obviously not a good one, or the Mirena coil along with an estradiol patch (many options)l. If you want to stay on the patches and don't fancy the coil, you have 2 choices: change to Evorel Conti (norethisterone) or an estradiol only patch (many options) and Utrogestan.
It's utterly frustrating, but the show must go on. Hope you can find a suitable substitute soon.
Conolly X
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The annoying thing is after the first couple when I was getting the hang of them my Femseven patches have stuck just fine and even survive the odd bath!
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I rarely had any trouble with them sticking. I don't understand what's going on. 😔
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Just to add - re choices following stopping Femseven combi HRT - that there is no oral levonorgestrel containing preparation licensed for HRT although it is contained in various contraceptive pills but would be prescribed off licence.
Also there is another alternative oral protgestogen licesned for HRT - called Provera - which can be used with oestrogen only patches or pills.
Conolly - please can you post the link to (and maybe quote?) the info where you have discovered that Femseven patches are being permanently discontinued? This would be helpful.
Hurdity x
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It`s like a merry go round designed to do our heads in! So when I go to get an alternative for my femseven sequi patches I`m planning to ask for evorel sequi and if for any reason these aren`t available (who knows?!?!) will ask for an estradiol patch and utrogestan which I`m assuming is a pill? As I don`t want a mirena. And the Dr won`t have a clue. :)
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Hello Dancing Queen,
As I said before, there is a MRHA parallel import licence granted for Femseven Sequi https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756072/Monthly_PLPI_listing_Oct_2018.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756072/Monthly_PLPI_listing_Oct_2018.pdf) so maybe they will be available in the near future. There's no mention of Femseven Conti though. Femseven (estradiol only) is still listed in Theramex products page.
Hurdity,
There's no such thing as ‘permanently' regarding drug market, unless really serious side effects are involved or there's a better substitute.
Here's the reference: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/hmbci.ahead-of-print/hmbci-2018-0033/hmbci-2018-0033.pdf (https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/hmbci.ahead-of-print/hmbci-2018-0033/hmbci-2018-0033.pdf)
I'm sorry I forgot to post it on this thread, I thought it is such a good review that I have created a new thread. https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42310.msg666935.html#msg666935 (https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42310.msg666935.html#msg666935)
Anyway, it's very likely that all ladies on Femseven will have to find another option soon because HRT can't wait, right?
Also, all estradiol patches containing levonorgestrel have been discontinued worldwide including Climara Pro (Bayer) in the US, so there's a pattern pointing towards discontinuation.
Conolly X
PS. I'm typing on iPhone, gosh it's hard to do it these days, osteoarthritis :P
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Hi there Conolly - I'm still not clear what you are saying and was looking for evidence that there is no longer to be a combi patch containing estradiol and levonorgestrel to replace the old Femseven (sequi and conti) in the forseeable future.
The review you linked to says nothing about this at all - it's a review of different progestogens not about the availability of these patches or their likely discontinuation. ???
I quoted another poster earlier in this thread who had had a response from Teva to say when it was likely that these patches would be available, because they were to be reformulated (re the adhesive) - so unless someone has heard to the contrary from Theramex this may still be on the cards?
Yes of course in the meantime women who run out will need to find an alternative but it would be better news and perhaps more tolerable if it was known that a favourite HRT was being reissued before too long!
Hurdity x
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Hello Hurdity,
Quoting...
"When using TE as gels or as the novel spray, any progestogen must be added separately as an oral preparation. This is also true for E2-patches with two exceptions: transdermal norethisterone acetate (NETA) and transdermal levonorgestrel (LNG) are available as fixed combinations in so-called “combi-patchesâ€. However, because adhesion problems and skin irritation are common with these large patches, and also because of bleeding problems, those “combi-patches†are not often used in clinical practice."
If they are not often used in clinical practice, it means they are not profitable anymore, therefore not likely to be produced. I've also had an email from Theramex stating that they have a 'supply issue' and cannot guarantee when the product will be available again. As I said before, unfortunately HRT can't wait.
By 'supply issue' I understand that they're having problems with levonorgestrel in the form suitable for patches, and these are supplied by the same manufacturers worldwide, where similar patches have already been discontinued.
If and when they can restore product supply is unpredictable, so the ladies have no other option right now but to change for another type of HRT.
Conolly X
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Thanks for the quote - however I think these patches are actually used quite a lot in UK in clinical practice - so not sure what the review is referring to or where the data are about this? I think they are (or have been at least until very recently if the number of prescriptions has fallen) the "go to" products for transdermal HRT from GPs here, (maybe not in contiental Europe?) precisely because they are combi patches - although private gynaes and menopause clinics may now seem to favour separate oestrogen and progesterone. It would be interesting to have some info although a bit of an aside....
However I realise that it is worldwide use that is critical since pharmaceutical products are produced and distributed globally so if they are not used much worldwide then this could have an impact on future production.
Yes women using HRT will need to find another option....
Hurdity x
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Hello ladies,
Femseven, Femseven Sequi and Femseven Conti also marketed in other countries as Fem7, FemSept, FemSept Combi, Feminova Combi amongst other brand names are registered trademarks held by Merck KGaA Healthcare. https://www.merckgroup.com/content/dam/web/corporate/non-images/investors/events-and-presentations/annual-general-meeting-archive/2018/us/AGM2018-Operational-hive-down-agreement-exhibits-EN.pdf
Note that Femseven Conti and Sequi are no longer listed.
Femseven in the UK was manufactured by Teva, Netherlands or LTS Lohmann Therapie Systeme, German or Laboratoire Theraméx, Monaco. (drug information leaflet)
LTS no longer lists Femseven as a product.
https://ltslohmann.de/en/patients/transdermal-therapeutic-system/
Theramex was created in 1970, bought by Merck Group in 1999 and sold to Teva (Israel) in 2011. Teva was sold to CVC Capital Partners in 2018 and became Theramex again! http://www.theramex.com/about-us/
Theramex doesn't list Femseven Conti and Sequi as products anymore, only Femseven.
http://www.theramex.com/products/
If this was just a brief problem of 'supply issue' as Theramex have stated, why would they not list Femseven Conti and Sequi anymore? If LTE and Teva (sold to Theramex) are not manufacturing the product, who is? Laboratoire Theraméx is Theramex, so which 'supply issue' are they referring to if they are the manufacturers?
So don't hold your breath, find another suitable regimen asap.
Conolly X
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Hello again,
Date postponed to 31/03/2019 according to this https://www.knowledgeanglia.nhs.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=KkrMC2w49U4%3D&tabid=1634&portalid=1&mid=1891
Conolly X
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Hello Rockhooper,
Apparently, but it seems Femseven sequi is out of stock as well, maybe this needs an update. I don't envy you ladies who feel well on this regimen. Very frustrating!
I wrote to Theramex asking for a more definitive answer but no reply yet.
Conolly X
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How much influence is Brexit having on the Pharmaceutical Industry? Companies simply shouldn't be running out of any active ingredient, it doesn't add up - unless of course countries aren't paying on time for products or there is a drop in prescriptions, then they won't produce them. No thought of those relying on feeling better!
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Rockhooper,
This one is more recent and even more confusing... it says all Femseven products are discontinued (RIP!?), and then they list Femseven Sequi as a substitute for Conti. https://www.knowledgeanglia.nhs.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=FSg5a44lyCM%3D&tabid=1634&portalid=1&mid=1891 (https://www.knowledgeanglia.nhs.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=FSg5a44lyCM%3D&tabid=1634&portalid=1&mid=1891)
AAH Pharma still lists them in the last Parallel Imports price list.
http://www.w8dm.co.uk/KEP/AAH/AAH_PDFViewer/web/viewer.html?file=http://www.w8dm.co.uk/KEP/AAH/FILES/PDF/201812/PARALLEL_IMPORTS_DEC18.pdf (http://www.w8dm.co.uk/KEP/AAH/AAH_PDFViewer/web/viewer.html?file=http://www.w8dm.co.uk/KEP/AAH/FILES/PDF/201812/PARALLEL_IMPORTS_DEC18.pdf)
CLKD,
The former distributor, Teva, has sold Women's Health products to Theramex (owned by CVC capital partners) which is still settling so maybe this is temporary. This operation is part of Teva's divestiture after antitrust concerns have been raised.
I have noticed that despite Theramex headquarters are in London, they haven't started their UK website, but the 'page has been reserved for future use', so there's still hope.
On the other hand... it seems that Brexit may have something to do with it https://www.hdauk.com/hda-news/hda-opinion-brexit
Conolly X
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:thankyou:
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OK ladies, I contacted LTS, Lohmann Therapie Systeme from Germany and asked if there was a pharmaceutical company that adhered the same combo as Femseven Conti to their transdermal patches and wait for it.........Teva was the reply. Ever felt like you are going round in circles :-\ They did ask if I wanted my email forwarded to Teva from them and I said why not, it's worth trying a different angle. To date I have had no response from Teva. Will keep on researching to see if there are any other alternatives.
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I wrote to Theramex myself the other day and got a response just now - here it is - and is pretty much as the other member whom I quoted earlier in this thread said after she contacted Teva. This comes from Theramex own medical information service based in London.
"Thank you for reaching out to Theramex Medical Information Department.
We are following up your request for information regarding the hormone replacement
therapy (HRT) patches containing estradiol and levonorgestrel (i.e. FemSeven
Conti® and FemSeven Sequi®).
FemSeven Conti® and FemSeven Sequi® transdermal patches are currently out of
stock due to a supply problem with a component of the adhesive matrix. Therefore,
the transdermal patches are being reformulated in terms of the adhesive and there
will be a period of testing before the transdermal patches are commercially available
again.
Theramex is actively working to restore the product supply of FemSeven Conti® and
FemSeven Sequi® in the future and is strongly interested to make FemSeven Conti®
and FemSeven Sequi® available again in the UK. Unfortunately, currently we are not
able to provide an exact date or time frame for the commercial availability of the
medicinal products in the UK.
We hope you find this information useful. Do not hesitate to contact us again should
you require additional clarification or for any further request."
There you have it - for the time being. Don't hold your breath - but in the meantime find an alternative product unless you can find stocks somewhere!
Hope this helps.
Hurdity x
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Hi can I ask why evorol didn't work the doctor had given me patches and I dread putting them because off all the bad press hope you feel better soon 😔
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Hi
I am seeing my GP this afternoon to look for an alternative to the Femseven sequi. I have previously had evorel and had hair loss on this.
Any ideas of the best option to ask for? I have 2 patches left and the thought of going back to waking up every 2 hours is miserable!
My pharmacist told me it was likely to be the third quarter before available again, September!
Thanks
Jen
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I was originally informed by Teva (late 2018) that there was a temporary halt on the manufacture of Fem7 Conti due to a change in the adhesive component of this product, and that they anticipated that production would recommence in 'early 2019', however, this then changed to 'the last quarter of 2019'.
I discussed this issue with my Meno Consultant (Sheffield Clinic) who has advised Evorel patch for the oest component, and utrogestan orally for the prog, due to my sensitivity to prog (anxiety) is my best match.
She did also offer Evorel Conti, or Evorel Oest + Mirena coil as the other possible options.
Now Theramex is in the equation - who knows if/when Fem7 will become available again 🙄?
Hope this helps anyone in a similar position to myself.
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PS
I have emailed Theramex requesting clarity regarding their intentions to resupply F7 Conti, and informed them that I require a 'black and white' answer to my query - 'yes' 'no' 'when', and expect to be treated with honesty, respect, and courtesy ...
Not too much to ask really 🙄
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Hello Jo24,
I have done the same a couple of weeks ago and they haven't answered yet. Maybe they don't know the answer!
Conollly X
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Seems like a lot of ladies have contacted Theramax and been told the same thing. I emailed too a while ago and the reply was that they are having supply and distribution problems so go back to your doctor. I'm on Evorel conti now and bleeding quite a bit every 10 days so not suited to it. My Doctor just changed me to Femseven conti totally unaware of supply problems.So no idea what to do as Femseven conti was the only alternative patch for post menopause and dont want to take tablets. Another trip back to the doctor's to tell her it's out of stock and back to square one. Any ideas for alternatives ?
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Hello helen63,
What's interesting is that Theramex is giving different reasons for the problem... supply issue, distribution issue, adhesive issue.
Your other options are an oestrogen gel or patch plus Utrogestan or Mirena coil.
Conolly X
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Hi Connolly,
Thanks for that info I'll look into those options as Evorel conti wasn't helping much and causing bleeding anyway. I've had a Mirena before but not sure if can have one now as I'm 56. Not holding my breath for Femseven conti being available anytime soon but will keep watching this site for updates.
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Hi helen63
:welcomemm:
The reply I got from Theramex was quite specific - perhaps you can post the relevant section of your reply just to see if it differs? They replied to me within a few days and this was a week ago.
"The supply issue was to do with the adhesive - I quoted it in my post below:
FemSeven Conti® and FemSeven Sequi® transdermal patches are currently out of
stock due to a supply problem with a component of the adhesive matrix. Therefore,
the transdermal patches are being reformulated in terms of the adhesive and there
will be a period of testing before the transdermal patches are commercially available
again."
helen63 - you can use a Mirena for endometrial protection as part of HRT at any age as far as I understand, so if you would like to explore this option then it contains the same progestogen as Femseven therefore you could tolerate it really well. Most of the progestogen is delivered directly to the uterus where it is needed although some is absorbed systemicaly - of very approx the same order of magnitude as Femseven patches.
PS
I have emailed Theramex requesting clarity regarding their intentions to resupply F7 Conti, and informed them that I require a 'black and white' answer to my query - 'yes' 'no' 'when', and expect to be treated with honesty, respect, and courtesy ...
Not too much to ask really 🙄
Jo24 did you see the extract of their reply to me in my previous post in the thread below?
It was your reply from the previous manufacturer Teva that I quoted earlier in this thread and which then prompted me to write to Theramex to see if the situation had changed.
Note from their reply that they cannot give an exact date as the new product ( ie with new adhesive) will need to be tested.
Hurdity x
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Hi can I ask why evorol didn't work the doctor had given me patches and I dread putting them because off all the bad press hope you feel better soon 😔
I feel the same. been reading up on here and they seem to make anxiety worse!! I need to switch on Sunday as last Femseven Conti patch but I'm dreading it :(
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Hi Hurdity
Thanks for your info
This is the reply I got from Theramex on 15/1/19
Thank you for your enquiry regarding FemSeven Sequi®
or FemSeven Conti®
transdermal patches (estradiol, levonorgestrel). We regret to inform you that we are
having supply disruptions with regard to the FemSeven Sequi and Conti products.
Theramex is actively working to restore product supply, but we cannot yet guarantee
when these products will be available again.
Unfortunately, we are unable to suggest any alternatives and we recommend that
you contact your doctor who will be able to advise you on your medical care. We can
also inform you that our FemSeven®
50 microgram, 75 microgram and 100
microgram transdermal patches, which contain estradiol only, are not affected by this
stock shortage.
For further information regarding the availability of FemSeven I would suggest that
you discuss this matter further with your doctor or pharmacist. As I am sure you will
appreciate they are best placed to advise you about the suitability of a particular
product and your doctor will also have details of your medical history and access to
information on all medicinal products.
We hope you find this information useful. Do not hesitate to contact us again should you require additional clarification or any further request.
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Thanks helen63 - your reply from them is consistent with the one I got - but just they were less specific as to the supply problem in your answer than with theirs to me! At least we know in principle what's happening - but not the time-scale - so for the forseeable future women definitely need to find an alternative. Those who don't mind the idea of a Mirena coil - at least this has the same progestogen. Those who tolerate Femseven, will likely tolerate the Mirena - and a similar amount is likely to be absorbed systemically, but with more going to the uterus enabling more flexibility with the oestrogen dose - and there is a choice of several different oestrogen only patches, as well as Femseven still being available.
Hurdity x
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I've been to a pharmacy today to see if by any chance they've had any new stock delivered of Femseven conti and they said they think they are discontinuing the manufacture of all conti patches . Hope this isn't the case but it wouldn't surprise me due to the evasive information given by Theramax and would explain why it's been unavailable for so long .
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Aggghhh! This is so frustrating and my GP is not very clued up. I was unaware of a supply issue and so was she. She gave me a prescription for a year's worth last week. It was only when I went to the pharmacy that I found out I couldn't get the patches. I had a lot of problems before starting femseven sequi. I've been on it for 2 years now, and all the clouds lifted. I've never had any problems with them sticking and I swim and gym (and sweat and shower) a lot. I would like to believe that the response hurdity received from Theramax was sent in good faith and that the intention is for them to be available again to the UK market. But the replies the rest of us have had are generic and feel evasive. I've contacted Theramax again asking for more detail of what the problem is and confirmation that production is just suspended temporarily and not completely discontinued.
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Hello ladies,
Theramex has replied to other MM ladies, me included, and the replies are vague, except for the one given to Hurdity, saying the supply issue is related to the adhesive. However, FemSeven (oestrogen only) patches are widely available and listed as the only FemSeven product on Theramex website, They don't seem to have any adhesive issue, so it seems plausible that the levonorgestrel part of the patch is the real issue.
Another possibility is that their patent is expired and maybe a generic product will be available in the near future.
Conolly X
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I have also received the detailed response from ‘Thera-Hopeless' re adhesive, which is what I was originally told by Teva way back ...
Ironically I have never had any problem with them adhering, I have to dig them off at the end of the week !
I am non the wiser than I was late summer ‘18, which is utterly ridiculous given that Thera purport to ‘support women's health' 🙄
I have a small stash of FemSeven Conti left and am contemplating using half a Fem7 + half an Evorel Conti patch to limp along with.
I had hoped to avoid the (dreaded) Noreth, but do much prefer a fuss free px.
I definitely do not want invasive Prog, and am not mad about the oral or pv Utro
Any thoughts ??
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Hi ladies. I have been following this thread with interest I have one patch left and can't get anymore😓. I want to wean off them anyway so the doctor has given me Kliovance low dose tablets which I'm going to start next week. I'm quite nervous about it.
I'd be grateful for any comments/thoughts/advice please. Has anyone else switched from patches to tablets?
Thanks.
Jules x
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I'm gutted it took me over a year to find something that made me feel better. I just don't know what I'm going to do now.When do you know that you don't need HRT anymore.
I'm 47 and I tried everything before finding Femseven Conti.
Could cry
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I have cried 😢
The lady I spoke to at Thera seemed to think it was just like changing the brand of coffee you buy, no idea at all .... 🙄
All I can suggest is that we are pester Theramex, phone, emails, Facebook page on a regular basis.
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Hi ladies. I have been following this thread with interest I have one patch left and can't get anymore😓. I want to wean off them anyway so the doctor has given me Kliovance low dose tablets which I'm going to start next week. I'm quite nervous about it.
I'd be grateful for any comments/thoughts/advice please. Has anyone else switched from patches to tablets?
Thanks.
Jules x
Why on earth would the doc change you from transdermal oestrogen to an oral one with completly different progestogen?! I really wouldn't change to these - I mean you might be absolutely fine but there is a transdermal patch with exactly the same oestrogen dose as the Femseven patch but with a different progestogen from Femseven (the same one as in Kliovance).
In your position I would ask the doc to switch you to Evorel conti (if you were on Femseven conti) - same mode of delivery, ( patch) same dose of oestrogen ( 50 mcg) but diff progestogen - norethisterone - and although the patches might differ slightly in size and adhesive components - they are much more similar than changing from patch to tablets.
If you've already got the prescription and paid for it you might want to start the tabs - but the doc hasn't really given you the best advice - unless you had said they Femseven weren't suiting you either. Better to wean off a patch that is similar if you want to wean off, than change completely - your body will take a while to readjust and may well take longer for the tabs.
Why do you want to wean off?
Hurdity x
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I have also received the detailed response from ‘Thera-Hopeless' re adhesive, which is what I was originally told by Teva way back ...
Ironically I have never had any problem with them adhering, I have to dig them off at the end of the week !
I am non the wiser than I was late summer ‘18, which is utterly ridiculous given that Thera purport to ‘support women's health' 🙄
I have a small stash of FemSeven Conti left and am contemplating using half a Fem7 + half an Evorel Conti patch to limp along with.
I had hoped to avoid the (dreaded) Noreth, but do much prefer a fuss free px.
I definitely do not want invasive Prog, and am not mad about the oral or pv Utro
Any thoughts ??
Yes their response didn't mention problems with the adhesive itself ie their not sticking - but with the supply of one of the components. I presume it is not possilbe to give an answer as the new formulation will need to be tested (which is what they said to me). A right pain I can imagine - and yet again women are not being well served by products available, shortages etc
Your idea sounds like a plan! I'm sure others would be interested to know how you get on.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I tried Evorel Conti when I started HRT but they didn't suit me at all. I had terrible pains in my legs and gave them a good go. I had a partial thyroidectomy 10 weeks ago and wasn't sure if a lot of the symptoms I was getting related to my thyroid or menopause. I'm still not feeling great after the Op ( and my thyroid levels are within range) so want to see if the HRT is making me feel unwell. I'm 55 and haven't had a period for 2.5 years so I'm not sure I need it anymore.
I've got bad acid reflux and my anxiety is creeping back. Really not sure what to do now. I've got the tablets but am prepared to go back and see the doctor this week.
I'd be really grateful if you could suggest anything else. Do you think I may be better with an Oestrogen patch and oral Progesterone, and if so which ones do you think would be best?
Thanks very much for the reply.
Jules x
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I've not had a period since my hystocopy which I had 3 years ago this June.
Does this mean that I have finished the menopause
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Since my earlier posts, the more forums I read, the more woman I hear are deeply upset and let down by Theramex, (and Teva for selling us down the river). I am going through my final supply that I managed to get online (now all sold out). I have been in touch with a relative in the US where it is still available under a different name, (Climara Pro) and am trying that route, assuming I'll have to pay through the nose. Meanwhile I have made an appointment to discuss with the GP. I'm not sure if am better off trying Everol Conti again, and for longer.... (I did in the past when FemSeven went temporary out of supply, although only had to use it for a week ..but I had bleeding and awful cramps in that period...) or try an oral progesterone with the oestrogen patch. Let's keep up the pressure on Theramex.... They're being a bit disingenuous about the reasons for the delay in supply. Most of us have had no trouble with the patch sticking, and if our symptoms were suitably relieved by the patch we would assume that the hormones were doing their job. We're still none the wiser.
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Could you please let me know re sourcing an equivalent patch in the US - I may have to go down that route, despite the cost 😡
So cross with Thera - wholly unacceptable. So much for their corporate "supporting women's health" 🙄
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Hello ladies,
Climara Pro has already been discontinued in Canada and although still available in the US, it is not listed on Bayer website anymore, although the product website is still online. By the way, it's very expensive.
Conolly X
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Since my earlier posts, the more forums I read, the more woman I hear are deeply upset and let down by Theramex, (and Teva for selling us down the river). I am going through my final supply that I managed to get online (now all sold out). I have been in touch with a relative in the US where it is still available under a different name, (Climara Pro) and am trying that route, assuming I'll have to pay through the nose. Meanwhile I have made an appointment to discuss with the GP. I'm not sure if am better off trying Everol Conti again, and for longer.... (I did in the past when FemSeven went temporary out of supply, although only had to use it for a week ..but I had bleeding and awful cramps in that period...) or try an oral progesterone with the oestrogen patch. Let's keep up the pressure on Theramex.... They're being a bit disingenuous about the reasons for the delay in supply. Most of us have had no trouble with the patch sticking, and if our symptoms were suitably relieved by the patch we would assume that the hormones were doing their job. We're still none the wiser.
I think they are quite clear with their reasons for the delay in supply - just that they can't give a date yet - and who knows it may all go wrong and they might not be able to find a suitable alternative adhesive (or that component that was difficult to supply)?
Hurdity x
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The latter, I expect because the patches were working perfectly well, for me anyway. Maybe it's all about money in the end.
I know Climara Pro is shockingly expensive. I'm still researching it as an option to tide me over, though. That, together with a convo with the GP.
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Can anyone recomnend an oestrogen patch or gel and a progesterone tablet to replace Femseven Conti patches please?
I've posted a new topic on this but haven't received any replies and I'm going to see the doctor tomorrow so want to be armed with information.
Thanks.
Jules
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If you are used to patches and they suit you then you could ask for Femseven 50 mcg patches ( same dose as you are on) and then pair that with a tablet progestogen - eg Provera, or micronised progesterone (Utrogestan 100 mg). The latter has a sedative affect but some women use it vaginally although many don't want to use it this way on a continuous basis. There are women ( Dotty is one I think) who happily take it every day! There are also other patches in this dose - I use Estradot which are very small and stick well - changed twice weekly.
The other alternative is the Mirena coil which has excatly the same progestogen as Femseven - but a little more invasive. Many women swear by this!
Hope this helps and let us know what you decide and how you get on.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity.
I'm a bit confused - is there a Femseven 50mcg patch as well then as I'm already on the Femseven Conti 50mcg patch already and they have been discontinued?
I have been starting to feel more anxious again lately so I think I would prefer the gel so I could tweak the dose up or down. My 2 main problems are that I can't lose weight, even though I am on a healthy diet and I exercise, and the anxiety. I'm not sure whether this is caused by estrogen dominance or not enough estrogen
I'm so confused and would appreciate any advice.
Thanks.
Jules x
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I discussed the Fem7 Conti fiasco with my Meno Consultant (Sheffield Clinic) recently.
She provided me with the following options :
Evorel Conti patch
Oest patch + utrogestan 100mg orally nocte
Oest patch + Mirena coil
Non are ideal for me personally, but if things remain as they are for much longer I will have to get an alternative.
I did look online at the Climara Pro, and did notice that there is more Levo than in the Fem7 so they are not truly equivalent.
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Yes that is true....the progesterone component is almost double. Back to the drawing board. 😔
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I thought I had mis-read it at first, but no, it's 15mcg per 24hrs in the Climara, 7mcg in Fem7 Conti- a huge difference that I would not tolerate; the Fem7 Sequi has 10mcg Levo in the combined patch, and that was a nightmare for me, I felt terrible on it.
I am having a tele consult with my GP next week to discuss the ongoing issue with Theramex 🙄
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I went back to see my GP as I had been given Kliovance tablets which were half the strength of Femseven Conti (as I'm going to try weaning off) but I've been having bad acid reflux lately and said I would prefer Oestrogen gel with a Progesterone tablet. Today I am starting Ustdogen 100 tablets and Oestrodose gel (1 or 2 pumps).
The last few weeks I have been having a feeling that I can't take a deep breath with some anxiety so I'm not sure whether I need more or less Oestrogen. With the gel I can see whether I need one or two pumps. The doctor has checked my lungs and isn't concerned. She thinks it's anxiety and wants me to go on antidepressants again, which I would rather avoid. I also had a partial thyroidectomy 3 months ago so have got that in the mix😓.
Will keep you posted how it goes with this combination x
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I went to the Drs to get my femseven sequi prescription renewed and as we know we can`t get it but she insisted I took the prescription and tried a few places. Well as it was snowing I phoned about 6 with the predictable result no way. Rang the surgery.. pop back and see the Dr this afternoon... trek through the snow...back to the Dr, she said ok we`ll try Evorel sequi, we`ll just take your blood pressure...... oh dear it`s 160 over 80 ... oh I can`t give you a prescription till it comes down. Seeing as I`d been traipsing here there and everywhere through the snow knowing I was on a fruitless mission are you surprised it was up!?! Measured it at home and it`s 129/78. But I`ve now got to take it for a week before I can get my magic patches. Sigh...... >:(
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Oh that's so annoying Dancing Queen as you say it's no wonder it was high after the morning you'd had. All caused by your GP I would have told them in no uncertain terms their incompetence was a contributing factor in the high reading.
Lanzalover x
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So I've seen suggestions for what could be taken in place of Femseven conti. Can anyone tell me what to ask for to replicate the Femseven sequi patches?
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I will be starting evorel sequi in a week or so..keeping fingers crossed that it suits me!
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I really hope the Evorol work for you. The issue for me is Evorol use a different progestogen.
In Femseven sequi its levonorgestrol and that works well for me, I seem to be sensitive to norethisterone (in Evorol) it makes me feel flat and anxious. I'm wondering what options there are for keeping with the same ingredients as Femseven sequi.
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I've given up on getting any femseven conti patches due to the manufacturing problem.. Ive been on Evorel conti patches but i'm getting bleeding every 10days so was going to change to femseven conti. Had all the usual tests done and all is ok but my doctor thinks the patch has activated my fibroids again so getting bleeds. So now has suggested Evorel 25 patch and mirena coil to stop the bleeding and protect womb. Evorel25 is half the amount of estradoil thats in the Evorel conti patch so no idea whether will do any good as the conti patch didnt help much.. I think a lot of ladies are going to have to look for alternatives as cant get femseven patches and start again with getting the right dosage . I've had a mirena before and was good but not sure if I want to go back there again. Has anyone had this combination of HRT and how did it work for you ?.
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Update...so I have just seem a GP. We were amalgamated with a huge group practice when our practice closed...I have no relationship with any GP so just booked online. She was very nice but admitted she "didn't do this very often...." I explained why I was there and said I believed that the Femseven oestrogen only patch was still available, and that I understood that it was recommended to add Utrogestan as the progesterone. She asked me how I knew all this!!!!!!! Anyway I have the prescription, although there was another embarrassing moment when she was unsure of the dosage for continuous HRT so I told her I thought it was 100mg Utrogestan daily....am I right, knowledgeable ladies???
I have about 6 weeks Femseven conti patches left and am eeking them out in the meantime.
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Hi do you mean the oestrogen patches in the Femseven Sequi?
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Might be ....it's the oestrogen only ones as opposed to the combined patches which are unobtainable at the moment. https://www.theramex.com/products/ Scroll down to the section on menopause treatments. Apparently still available.
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Are you in UK? If so, there are other oestrogen only patches
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/treatafter.php
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Yes, I'm in the UK. I just wanted to stay on what I know suits me, at the same dose. It's the progesterone that is the unknown at the moment, though.... I'm still holding out forlorn hope that this is temporary.
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Hi rose thorn....the oestrogen in Femseven patches is the same as the oestrogen in the other patches apart from Premarin and Progynova. All the other patches contain estradiol which is a body identical oestrogen. x
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Can I just add a small positive note to this thread for anyone who still hasnt swapped and is dreading it..I had to change
from Femseven sequi to Evorel a week or so ago and was worried. But so far I have actually felt better my mood is more positive than it has been for many months..and Im on the prog phase. Fingers crossed you ladies are also getting on ok with the changeover x
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I've changed over from evorel conti patches to mirena coil and evorel 25 patches as couln't get femseven conti. No idea how this will work out as the evorel 25 patch is half the dose of evorel conti 50mg so probably not enough and will end up going back to the doctors yet again for adjustemnts. No idea why my doctor gave me evorel 25 patches when I was telling her I didnt feel the 50mg everol conti patch was helping me. Only had mirena coil fitted last week so cant tell yet if its any good for me. Not feeling many benefits yet from any hrt I've had :-\
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That's a bit rubbish, Helen63. So sorry. I'm afraid to say, after my disastrous appointment with the GP last Friday, even though I have filled the prescription for FemSeven oestrogen patches and utrogestan, I am making an appointment with a private meno specialist GP to talk things through.
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Yes not good as I now have to wait 6 weeks on a low dose before I can go back to GP and ask for a higher dose. Seems like it takes a while to get sorted . Hope you have a better meeting with your private specialist.
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I too had to change from Femseven Conti 50 to Evorel Conti 50, I did not get nausea or headaches as I did 10years ago on them, but have felt more foggy headed, memory also much worse :-\
My neighbours Niece in Oct was given F.S conti patches instead of sequi patches...she got a new prescription, AND still had Conti one's in her drawer, my neighbour mentioned this to me just by chance 2 weeks ago..i now have them in my drawer, she gave me 11, also 2 nice ladies on here sent me their un wanted one's, plus the few I had left so now have enough to take on holiday with me...I used first one on Saturday and my head feels so much better today, and will continue them for next 18weeks..
I expect in June I will have to go back to Evorel if I can still get them, so annoyed that there maybe a chance all conti patches will be stopped !! why are we treated this way >:( >:(
Other alternative will be Femseven Estrogen only patch and a prog tab, when I really wanted at 69, not to go down the tablet route, I only use them to help with hot sweats/flushes, have to add Evorel were not so effective in helping my hot sweats, started getting really hot around 9pm at night and flushing badly after my morning cuppa.. :'(
Ladies if any of you get any further info re Femseven would you please post, I was told by company it was all down to the adhesive, and they would be back in stock end of 2019, seems like no one is willing to tell the whole truth! xx
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Hi there Rosebush
In case you or others haven't seen the whole thread - this is the response I got from Theramex on January 15th so unless anyone has heard since (re the date of resupply) this is the most up-to-date info? Looks like the earlier responses they (Theramex) made did give a date (if the responses were prior to Jan 15th) but maybe someone has had a recent response which says late 2019?
Glad you've managed to get hold of some - I think other members may well be quite envious!
I don't think Evorel conti patches are being stopped unless I've missed something :-\
Hurdity x
I wrote to Theramex myself the other day and got a response just now - here it is - and is pretty much as the other member whom I quoted earlier in this thread said after she contacted Teva. This comes from Theramex own medical information service based in London.
"Thank you for reaching out to Theramex Medical Information Department.
We are following up your request for information regarding the hormone replacement
therapy (HRT) patches containing estradiol and levonorgestrel (i.e. FemSeven
Conti® and FemSeven Sequi®).
FemSeven Conti® and FemSeven Sequi® transdermal patches are currently out of
stock due to a supply problem with a component of the adhesive matrix. Therefore,
the transdermal patches are being reformulated in terms of the adhesive and there
will be a period of testing before the transdermal patches are commercially available
again.
Theramex is actively working to restore the product supply of FemSeven Conti® and
FemSeven Sequi® in the future and is strongly interested to make FemSeven Conti®
and FemSeven Sequi® available again in the UK. Unfortunately, currently we are not
able to provide an exact date or time frame for the commercial availability of the
medicinal products in the UK.
We hope you find this information useful. Do not hesitate to contact us again should
you require additional clarification or for any further request."
There you have it - for the time being. Don't hold your breath - but in the meantime find an alternative product unless you can find stocks somewhere!
Hope this helps.
Hurdity x
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Well I'd add myself to the list of grateful recipients of unwanted Femseven Conti patches. Am stringing each of my precious remaining ones for 10 days instead of the usual 7.
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So as Theramex are just sending a generic email and attachment to anyone who enquires about the discontinued Femseven Continue/Sequi, which isn't particularly helpful to establishing a lead time as to when it will be available in the UK again and I was rather amused at their slogan ‘Supporting woman through life's changes' and ‘seeing woman through the changes of menopause'.
My question is then and as I am getting pretty desperate :-\ Climara (available in USA/Canada) is the equivalent, but would it be possible to get a prescription written in the UK to order it online? Yes its not cheap at around 84USD for 12 patches, but to be honest the relief at just knowing my supply would not run out, would be worth it.
Does anyone, or any doctor know the answer please?
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I've been on Evorel Sequi for three months because Femseven Sequi was discontinued and it doesn't agree with me at all. I had tried it before, when Femseven previously became unavailable for a time, and had the same response to it then. I find it makes me lethargic, irritable, anxious, depressed, and gives me very heavy periods.
The last time Femseven was unavailable my GP allowed me to try Evorel 50 oestrogen + 200mg Utrogestan (with checks from the specialist at the Menopause clinic). I'd heard a lot of good things about micronised progesterone, but I found the dose far too strong. It made me dopey and depressed and gave me stomach problems. I asked if the dosage could be reduced but was told it couldn't, because not enough is known about accurate dosing of progesterone as opposed to the progestogens. I then went to see a private doctor who said he could prescribe the Utrogestan at 100mg but I would need to pay for annual scans of my uterus. The annual cost of prescriptions, consultations and scans was a lot more than I could afford. So back to square one.
I've asked my GP if there's any alternative that contains levonorgestrel instead of norethisterone but there doesn't seem to be. It's getting so bad I'm now seriously considering coming off HRT altogether but I'm dreading the further disruption to my body. Something I keep wondering about is why the Femseven company stopped production, given that there's obviously a high demand for the product?
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They say they're reformulating the adhesive matrix...I don't know why. I found it fine. I have just sent another email to Theramex asking for an update. This was subsequent to my first email last November when I got the generic reply. They haven't replied as yet. I believe the Mirena coil has the same progesterone as FemSeven. I haven't tried that yet but am trying to settle on FemSeven 50 and 100mg utrogestan continuously. Side effects have settled somewhat after about a week although I still don't feel like myself yet.
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Hi Dipo
:welcomemm:
Yes roseandthorn's right - the Mirena coil - which delivers most of the levonorgestrel straight to the uterus. Your GP should know this!
Also the other alternative is to use the utrogestan vaginally which lessens the side effects from oral use and you might be able to get away with half the dose (100 mg) vaginally as more gets to the uterus than with oral use (some studies have shown this). However as this is off licence you would need to check it was working through scans and you might not be able to get these on NHS except in cases of abnormal bleeding.
So you could get the utrogestan on NHS as well as the patch - they would just prescribe the licensed amount but you would use less, and then if you could afford to save up for an annual scan if your GP won't refer you (Babybond or Mothercare apparently - not too expensive but I appreciate not everyone has the funds and this should be available free!). You would be best to tell your (NHS) doc that you are taking the reduced dose vaginally. If necessary quote the studies - I've posted them on here somewhere and can find them at some point if you want them!
Hurdity x
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Thank you for your responses, roseandthorn and Hurdity. I don't want to try the coil as I've had a couple of friends with very unpleasant experience using it. I did use Utrogestan vaginally for a while but my doctor is very cautious and would not prescribe me the 100mg capsules for this, only the 200. Of course this made things even worse, since as you say even more gets to the uterus this way. My doctor was only willing to prescribe Utrogestan at all if I was also being checked annually by the Menopause Clinic specialist, but due to cutbacks those consultations were stopped. I would be very interested in the studies you refer to so yes, if you have the time to post them that would be a real help.
Many thanks.
PS It took me a lot of searching to find these responses - is there a quick way to find messages on here, like a facebook or email update?
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Received a reply from Theramex this am stating the same adhesive issues and a new expected date for January 2020. The usual referral to GP for alternative HRT. I am 8 weeks into Femoston 0.5mg and have had 3 bleeds already. Not keen on oral HRT but have limited choice. Perservering whilst waiting for Femseven but that time line seems infinite :'( :'( :'(
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Theramex haven't even bothered to reply to me asking for an update. I am having the Mirena fitted next week. I miss how well I felt on FemSeven Conti.
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roseandthorn. Me too, I had the least side effects with it, although sticking was an issue, especially after a swim.. They sent me a pre-formatted reply with my name added..
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They finally replied this afternoon with the generic attachment, having changed the target date to "early 2020." I don't really believe that it'll appear again on the market or that Theramex have any great interest in the wellbeing of the women who were on the patches. I generally didn't have problems with the patches sticking but if one did dislodge, I just moistened it a bit and it stuck back on. My Mirena is being fitted next Tuesday.
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Me again !
I bear news regarding the F7 fiasco 🙄
The latest communication I have received from Thera (after much pestering) is that FemSeven Conti has not been discontinued, they anticipate it will be re-marketed in Spring 2020; someone is still faffing about with their 'chemistry set' to get the adhesive sorted .... so! panic over in one respect.
On a personal note, I am using Evorel Conti as an alternative, and other than a lot of headaches, I have noticed no other significant difference in how I feel; my biggest concern was its potential to alter mood (I have developed Meno anxiety), but all is fine in that respect.
I did have other options to try, eg Oest patch + oral Prog, etc, but the convenience of a single patch (for me) was the primary reason for trying the Ev first.
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That's good, Jo24.... About Evorol suiting you. I think Theramex might find that by the time they get FemSeven Conti back on the market, everyone has found alternatives which work for them and don't need it go back on it.
On a personal update note...have had high drama over the last 48 hours. Catastrophic bleeding whilst still on FemSeven 50 and utrogestan. Eventually resulted in the five hour stint from hell in A&E.....musings about hysteroscopy looking for endometrial cancer, High BP and all sorts of nasty stuff. Given Tranexamic acid to stem the bleeding and sent to arrange referral to Gyne for said hysteroscopy. Saw private meno specialist instead as had an appointment notionally to fit the Mirena but she was reassuring and referred me for a scan instead saying her bet was either on a fibroid or polyp. Had the scan today with brilliant Gyne Radiologist who gave me the all clear , I do have a fibroid but he said the bleed was actually due to a thickened endometrium (from being on the Conti patches for so long) which has now shed precipitated by the change in HRT. Am now trialling Femoston Conti 1/5 ....so far so good. 😰
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Bump for bear
...and femseven users!
This is the thread I was referring to. Start from the beginning and all will be revealed! Well some of it anyway!
Hurdity x
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Thank you, I wonder what the ladies who have posted on this thread are doing on he new forced regimen?
One link posted by Connolly is very interesting, but I couldn't access the MIMS page (for fully registered users only, whatever that is) of 'Deleted products on the 7 November 2018'. https://www.mims.co.uk/deleted-products-2018/article/1491156
According to the link posted, FemSeven Conti and Sequi were listed as 'Discontinued' by a NHS hospital?
BeaR.
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Hi FemSeven users,
This patent might explain why it's taking so long for Theramex to sort out the adhesive issue. Noven Pharmaceuticals, the real manufacturer of Estradot (Novartis is just a licensee in Europe) has a new patent of a transdermal patch system, including one containing estradiol and levonorgestrel https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3253840A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017004507A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
Noven currently has three products marketed in the US, Minivelle (estradiol patch), Combipatch (estradiol + norethindrone) and a generic estradiol patch (I think it's the first generic in the world). http://www.noven.com/womens-health.php
I guess Theramex is waiting to see if it will be profitable to compete with them in Europe. If that is the case, maybe there will be another option available soon.
BeaR.
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Hi FemSeven users,
This patent might explain why it's taking so long for Theramex to sort out the adhesive issue. Noven Pharmaceuticals, the real manufacturer of Estradot (Novartis is just a licensee in Europe) has a new patent of a transdermal patch system, including one containing estradiol and levonorgestrel https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3253840A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017004507A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
Noven currently has three products marketed in the US, Minivelle (estradiol patch), Combipatch (estradiol + norethindrone) and a generic estradiol patch (I think it's the first generic in the world). http://www.noven.com/womens-health.php
I guess Theramex is waiting to see if it will be profitable to compete with them in Europe. If that is the case, maybe there will be another option available soon.
BeaR.
Thanks for that BeaR - Fem7 is the only prog I can JUST tolerate and may be my salvation from a hyster. At least this proves there's no jiggery pokery with stockpiling or distribution chains, it's just a simple product reformulation.
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Hi FemSeven users,
This patent might explain why it's taking so long for Theramex to sort out the adhesive issue. Noven Pharmaceuticals, the real manufacturer of Estradot (Novartis is just a licensee in Europe) has a new patent of a transdermal patch system, including one containing estradiol and levonorgestrel https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3253840A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017004507A1/en?q=levonorgestrel&assignee=noven&oq=noven+levonorgestrel
Noven currently has three products marketed in the US, Minivelle (estradiol patch), Combipatch (estradiol + norethindrone) and a generic estradiol patch (I think it's the first generic in the world). http://www.noven.com/womens-health.php
I guess Theramex is waiting to see if it will be profitable to compete with them in Europe. If that is the case, maybe there will be another option available soon.
BeaR.
If you look closely at the second ref of the two about patents (the first one is not about the hormones themselves) it is not an estradiol/levo patch that is being patented but ethinyl estradiol with levo and I presume it is intended as a transdermal alternative to the CCP containing the same hormones ie as a contraceptive patch if I've read correctly. As such, although interesting to CCP users it is not an alternative or competitor to the HRT Femseven patches which contain the bio-identical estradiol.
Re your speculation re the products and Theramex, unless you have inside info on this company - even if a competitor (the one you mention Noven) were developing a similar product, I can't see that a company (Theramex - who is reformulating their own product) is going to wait years to see how a competitor does.
Also looks like Noven only prdocued products for US which is not relevant here eg they produce and estradiol/norethisterone (well similar prog) type patch - similar to Evorel produced by Janseen. However if they were to produce a new HRT type that wasn't already available here I can imagine it might be considered for licensing.
However it is of course very frustrating for Femseven users not to have a date given but I can understand that retesting of the patch (with its new adhesive) is necessary (including pharmacokinetic info - ie how it absorbs into the body and the concentration of the hormones obtained, and how long they remain/how they break down over time) before re-release onto the market.
Hurdity x
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Thanks for that BeaR - Fem7 is the only prog I can JUST tolerate and may be my salvation from a hyster. At least this proves there's no jiggery pokery with stockpiling or distribution chains, it's just a simple product reformulation.
KiltedCupid - bear's post does not prove this at all as explained in my previous post. However we do know this anyway and have done for some time ie that in the case of Femseven it is a case of product reformulation. If you read from the start of this thread you will see that several of us wrote to Theramex and posted their response. I posted mine in detail (verbatim) - so that is what we have to go on. Several members have written since but I gather there is no further information about dates as yet. I can understand how frustrating this must be for you and all the others who can tolerate this prog!! Hopefuly it won't be too long.....
Hurdity x
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Femseven was good for me for 2 years before it was suddenly withdrawn from the market. I've been using Evorel patches since June and they seem to be ok so far.
You change the patch twice as week instead of once and occasionally I've forgotten, but so far so good. I've been pleasantly surprised. The other thing to say is that a sensitivity to a certain prog taken orally (i.e in pill form) doesn't mean there is always the same sensitivity to the same prog in a patch. It can be worth trying.
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Femseven was good for me for 2 years before it was suddenly withdrawn from the market. I've been using Evorel patches since June and they seem to be ok so far.
You change the patch twice as week instead of once and occasionally I've forgotten, but so far so good. I've been pleasantly surprised. The other thing to say is that a sensitivity to a certain prog taken orally (i.e in pill form) doesn't mean there is always the same sensitivity to the same prog in a patch. It can be worth trying.
Thank you Atlanta. I've used Evorel Sequi and conti in the past and I'm afraid the norethisterone made me very unwell, although I absolutely agree there's a huge difference between oral and transdermal. I'm fortunate to (probably) have enough fem7 to limp through on a long cycle sequi until early 2020, but not much longer. Glad they're working for you.
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Hi girls,
Nicholas Saunders, commercial director of Theramex-UK can be contacted at nicholas.saunders@theram regarding Stock Availability of their products. Maybe we could ask him about FemSeven...
BeaR.
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Hi Emma,
Welcome! I've just sent you an email.
Bear.
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Hi Emma Hartley - all requests such as this have to go through our administrator, also called Emma. You will find the information here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8520.0.html
Hurdity x
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Hi girls,
Latest update on FemSeven products
https://www.theramex.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/FemSeven-Conti-and-FemSeven-Sequi-Transdermal-HRT-Adhesive-Patched-Stock-Update-1.pdf
BeaR.
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Hi girls,
Theramex couldn't secure a manufacturer for FemSevem (apparently) so they have decided to buy the whole patch range from Janssen! Welcome to Evorel made by Theramex...
https://www.theramex.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Theramex-announces-the-acquisition-of-HRT-patch-assets-from-Janssen-Pharmaceutica-NV.pdf
BeaR.
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Hi girls,
Theramex couldn't secure a manufacturer for FemSevem (apparently) so they have decided to buy the whole patch range from Janssen! Welcome to Evorel made by Theramex...
https://www.theramex.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Theramex-announces-the-acquisition-of-HRT-patch-assets-from-Janssen-Pharmaceutica-NV.pdf
BeaR.
That should sort the issue out..
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That's interesting BeaR, thank you x
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Hi TraceyE and Countrygirl,
The key question remains though, who's going to manufacture the patches?
BeaR.
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Hi TraceyE and Countrygirl,
The key question remains though, who's going to manufacture the patches?
BeaR.
Well - it doesn't matter who makes any of them as long as someone does, if you are talking about Femseven or is it Evorel? It would be a bit weird though as one company would then have a monopoly on two different formulations ie Evorel sequi/conti and Femseven?
However we just have to await developments and hope that BMS - who seem to be in close touch with most of the pharmas now, also has some input into whatever they think is going to serve women best.
Hurdity x
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Hopefully both Evorel and Femseven will be manufactured as we need more choice not less. Really want to try patches that have alternative progesterone in them.
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Abso-bloody-lutely!! ::)
Hurdity x
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Hi girls,
Theramex couldn't secure a manufacturer for FemSevem (apparently) so they have decided to buy the whole patch range from Janssen! Welcome to Evorel made by Theramex...
https://www.theramex.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Theramex-announces-the-acquisition-of-HRT-patch-assets-from-Janssen-Pharmaceutica-NV.pdf
BeaR.
Thanks for this BeaR - this must be great news for patch users of these brands?
Please say yes......
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It seems absolutely ridiculous to me that it is taking all this time to find a glue that everyone else can manage to find for their patches >:(
Not everyone is suited to Evoral, because of the norethisterone
My daughter was doing well on femseven conti, she can't find anything else that suits her
Evoral conti had the same effect on her hair as it did on mine,and is still falling
I am sure I read in one of the reports that norethisterone was being phased out, for reason of side effects but I can't find it now
Has anyone else any idea where this can be found ???
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Jaycee - entirely agree as fem7 have become my go-to patch. I think the problem with delay may lie in the fact that they'll have to carry out trials after they've found a new formula. The trials will have a specific time frame in order to meet prescribing criteria. I've no idea of the duration but BeaR knows these things and may be able to shed some light for us.
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Kilted cupid, I hope they are not going to change the formula now too, as I know femseven did suit a lot of people,
Will this news mean femseven might be available sooner I wonder ,it seems an awfully long time to be having to wait to 2020 ,after the shortages of all the other HRTs
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I really hope so too Jaycee but I have my doubts. Any delivery change must surely have a knock on effect on the receiving end and for those very sensitive to changes it could make a difference. On the plus side, it might be a good difference! I'd imagine the trial stage is to iron out any differences so here's hoping.
I'm hoping that now they've secured a manufacturer the products will be available sooner than reported. I guess it all depends on trials.
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I hope so too, a lot of women have had to change to Evoral and most patches have norethisterone in them
I was going to try patches but can't have pills, not much choice
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Hi girls,
Regarding norethisterone, I think those results are for ORAL preparations, but I will check the study and report back.
Regarding the recent Theramex acquisiton of Janssen's Evorel portfolio... It's not a simple operation. Janssen's press release states that Theramex currently anticipates 're-launching the product range in their packaging by Q1 2020'. https://www.janssen.com/uk/hormone-replacement-therapy-hrt-shortages-uk They also say 'that the agreement with Theramex is not the cause or the reason for the current shortage of the Evorel range.'Well, now that they have mentioned it... ::)
Regarding FemSeven... the patent (estradiol and levonorgestrel transdermal patches) has expired. I think Theramex was trying to prolong the patent by modifying the adhesive matrix. This is a well known strategy to delay entry of generics to the market https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6688687/ Let's hope they will succeed in the next few months or a new generic product will be available.
BeaR.
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Thanks BeaR, for explaining, but surely the side effects in the patch are bad enough to affect women too, i can't see they would be much different to the oral side effects
Anyhow we will just have to wait and see
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Thanks BeaR, for explaining, but surely the side effects in the patch are bad enough to affect women too, i can't see they would be much different to the oral side effects
Anyhow we will just have to wait and see
Hi Jaycee,
Absolutely, side effects are a personal experience and, IMHO, 'hormone replacement therapy' is a misleading term, I prefer MHT (menopausal hormone therapy), precisely because there are synthetic non body identical hormones involved. Even when the hormones are body-identical (17 beta estradiol and progesterone) both dose and dosage are very variable and side effects can be debilitating as well. Besides, there are many transgender people on hormonal therapy, so the term can be confusing for statistics purpose.
Regarding the norethisterone quote from the International Menopause Society document https://www.imsociety.org/manage/images/pdf/2b650ccd4a2e0c63806d82ed2984ed69.pdf
'The median year of diagnosis of breast cancer cases from North America (25% of the included data) was 1999, and for the European studies, 2007, with one as early as 1981. With an average use of 10 years of MHT in current users at diagnosis,and 7 years in past users, much of the exposure to MHT preceded the first publication of the Women's Health Initiative study, after which prescribing practices changed substantially. Consequently, virtually all of the included information pertains to MHT formulations and doses known to have adverse breast effects that are no longer recommended. Specifically, the use of the progestogens medroxyprogesterone acetate and norethisterone (norethindrone)is now discouraged because of their known adverse effects, but these account for nearly all of the data for combined estrogen-progestogen therapy included in the paper. The one analysis of data from prospective studies of the effects of different progestogens provides inadequate data to draw conclusions about the effects of the preferred progestogens, progesterone (50 included cases) and dydrogesterone (253 included cases). Additionally, the majority of cases were women who took oral estrogen, which results in high blood levels of the hormone estrone, whereas transdermal therapy does not(2). Estrone is not only the main estrogen produced by postmenopausal women, but levels are higher in overweight/obese women, such that estrone may be a key factor linking obesity with breast cancer.'
Unfortunately they don't say exactly where the data come from, I will check their References and report back. I suspect they are talking about MHT formulations containing HIGH doses of norethisterone, that are now 'discouraged', but still available, not to mention the high dose norethisterone formulations used as contraceptives.
Patches do avoid liver first pass, so they are less likely to present the same side effects of oral formulations, but on the other hand the amount and rate of hormone release can vary in transdermal drug delivery systems depending on the patch technology and skin barrier factors (water and fat content), and we all know that hormonal fluctuations can cause serious effects.
BeaR
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Thanks for this BeaR - this must be great news for patch users of these brands?
Why is this great news? I would suggest it could be quite the opposite - one company being subsumed into another unless they retain their brand, as it could lead to the comapny making the decision to streamline to one patch formulation only. However we have no idea though.
Hurdity x
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Yes that's right hurdily, we have no idea.
As a business owner and as the partner of a business owner, no business owner would be foolish enough to lose a substantial part of their guaranteed income from a particular product. It makes absolutely no business sense.
However to merge manufacturing and workforce processes, it's possible to reduce costs to the consumer, whilst retaining a suite of products across a variety of respected brands without marketing costs for new brands.
But, as you say, we just don't know.
I know what I'd bet on.
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Thanks again BeaR,I wish the Evoral Conti would have been ok for me ,because it gave me a real energy boost, but the upset stomach, [which might have passed] and the hair loss especially made it impossible for me to carry on with it,
We can only hope it all gets sorted out,sooner rather than later
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I'm sure this has been suggested already jaycee but have you thought of a Mirena coil - this has the same progestogen as Femseven conti? It is also available as a mini pill (Norgeston) which could potentially be prescribed off-licence although it would be difficult to work out the right dose as it's not available as a combi oral product - and if you're like me - you would rather stay with transdermals all the way as having fewer side effects and bypassing the liver. Just a thought.
Hurdity x
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Thanks again BeaR,I wish the Evoral Conti would have been ok for me ,because it gave me a real energy boost, but the upset stomach, [which might have passed] and the hair loss especially made it impossible for me to carry on with it,
We can only hope it all gets sorted out,sooner rather than later
Hi Jaycee I had exactly the same side effects + palps on Evorel Conti. Persevered for 4 months than went on Estrogel/Utrogestan and still had the same side effects.:(
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Thanks again BeaR,I wish the Evoral Conti would have been ok for me ,because it gave me a real energy boost, but the upset stomach, [which might have passed] and the hair loss especially made it impossible for me to carry on with it,
We can only hope it all gets sorted out,sooner rather than later
You're welcome, jaycee. How long have you been on Evorel Conti? Let's hope the levonorgestrel and estradiol patches will be available next year. I think it's only a matter of commercial issues that are already being discussed and will be sorted out soon. I won't 'speculate', I can't post why I think this is the real issue because there's an article coming soon about it. I will let you know when it's going to be published.
BeaR.
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Thanks again BeaR,I wish the Evoral Conti would have been ok for me ,because it gave me a real energy boost, but the upset stomach, [which might have passed] and the hair loss especially made it impossible for me to carry on with it,
We can only hope it all gets sorted out,sooner rather than later
You're welcome, jaycee. How long have you been on Evorel Conti? Let's hope the levonorgestrel and estradiol patches will be available next year. I think it's only a matter of commercial issues that are already being discussed and will be sorted out soon. I won't 'speculate', I can't post why I think this is the real issue because there's an article coming soon about it. I will let you know when it's going to be published.
BeaR.
Please keep us updated BeaR.
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I don't fancy having a mirena at my age Hurdity,
BeaR,I am not on Evoral Conti now,i was onlt on it for 4 weeks when my hair started falling out badly,so stopped it and my hair has just about stopped falling now,i have several almost bald patches which are very noticeable so have to wear a hat if anyone is around, seen a dermatologist,and had blood tests,and seeing him again next Tuesday he said it is Telogen Effluvium, but he might have changed his mind next week
He thought it was stress related, as I had already lost some previously,but the Evoral Conti definitely helped
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Hi jaycee - I don't know how old you are but I was offered one at 60 - I declined not due to age but because I didn't want to use any synthetic progestogen. It was just a suggestion I thought might be helpful in case you didn't know it had the same prog!
Hurdity x
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I don't fancy having a mirena at my age Hurdity,
BeaR,I am not on Evoral Conti now,i was onlt on it for 4 weeks when my hair started falling out badly,so stopped it and my hair has just about stopped falling now,i have several almost bald patches which are very noticeable so have to wear a hat if anyone is around, seen a dermatologist,and had blood tests,and seeing him again next Tuesday he said it is Telogen Effluvium, but he might have changed his mind next week
He thought it was stress related, as I had already lost some previously,but the Evoral Conti definitely helped
Hi jaycee,
I'm sorry about the hair loss, it's very distressing. What blood tests has he asked for?
Regarding the IMS quote 'Specifically, the use of the progestogens medroxyprogesterone acetate and norethisterone (norethindrone) is now discouraged because of their known adverse effects', I couldn't find anything in the referenced articles. The Women's Health Initiative study only tested medroxyprogesterone acetate and the other articles are not about norethisterone (norethindrone).
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S1470-2045%2812%2970425-4
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2551981
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/195120
I'm going to write to the IMS to clarify this specific assertion.
BeaR.
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Hi girls,
Old thread, brief update... The IMS didn't reply to my email or online query regarding norethisterone 'adverse effects', but reading Katejo's post on another thread I wonder if it's related to breakthrough bleeding.
BeaR.
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Hi BeaR i have read of people having breakthrough bleeding and heavy too on Evoral Conti, as well as hair loss due to the Norethisterone,
Thankfully that didn't happen to me,just the hair loss
I did tell my Dr that i had read about women having hair loss and heavy bleeding,he just said the estrogen would help with hair, but of course the progesterone was more dominant for me
I felt really annoyed as he still said the E C would help, but no. i lost even more hair than before
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Hi any updates on evorol conti just been prescribed them but reading all these comments I'm scared to try them I was on elleste duet conti but it's not available they put me on kliofem gave me very bad palpations now got this patch I'm 58 last period about 8 year ago anyone have good experience with evorol conti
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Hi any updates on evorol conti just been prescribed them but reading all these comments I'm scared to try them I was on elleste duet conti but it's not available they put me on kliofem gave me very bad palpations now got this patch I'm 58 last period about 8 year ago anyone have good experience with evorol conti
I have had bleeding but no hair loss at all.
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Hi julie 55 - this thread is about Femseven (with a very brief digression to Evorel conti) but if you do a search for posts and look for Evorel conti experiences or side effects in the title - then these might provide more answers - or start your own thread?
Hurdity x