Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nik2502 on August 07, 2018, 09:57:06 AM
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Hi ladies
I'd been on femeston 2/10 for the past eight years when earlier this year it appeared to have stopped working.
Severe depression is one of my main symptoms - three weeks ok and one where I'm really low to the point I can barely function. It's ruining my life. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job which I've only been in for five months. I've had to cancel two holidays due tomorrow depressive episodes.
Saw psychiatrist who doesn't believe in hormonal depression and just increased my antidepressants further. But no effect.
My GP reluctantly agreed to prescribed me Evorel 75 last week with progesterone for days 15-26. I'm on to my second patch and can feel the anxiety creeping back in.
I just don't know what to do. I hate being like this! Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Nicola
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Did you suffer depression prior to this? Is it during the progesterone stage that you feel depressed? The Psychiatrist needs his ****s cutting off to be quite frank >:(.
The Change throws lots of problems in our direction! I am sure that someone with HRT knowledge will be along. In the mean time, put the name of the product into the 'search' box to see what pops up.
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Hi
Thanks for the reply
I've always suffered from depression related to hormones eg PMT, PND then when I started menopause it got worse. I've been great though up until about christmas and then the problems started again.
I'm not sure doctors know what to do with me! In mental health services but don't think it's the right place for me - keep increasing the ad's just doesn't work. Psychiatrist is clueless and actually said he thinks I'm repressing child abuse by my father!!!!! Complete twonk. Wont entertain the hormonal aspect which is clear.
Menopause specialist refused me HRT due to my BMI being over 40. But it's not the physical side effects - I can cope with those - it's the mental ones! Depression is so bad i would rather take a 99% risk of getting cancer than suffer like this. My GP however is more understanding and happy for me to take HRT as I understand the risks.
It's just so frustrating getting the right help!
N x
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Hi
Sorry it's not a lengthy message (currently ill on the sofa with kidney infection) but please put GypseyRoseLee (I'm sure that's her username) and read her stories, some of it may be of help to you) xx
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Oh Annie :bighug:
Do read some of Dr Katherine Dalton's ideas, she pioneered the thought that PMS causes many problems, including the intent to murder. National Association for Pre-Menstrual Syndrome as it was, I was advised to eat little and often: 24/7, all year round. Took some organisation ::) but it stopped the awful surges of nausea.
The idea is that PMS happens in the 10-14 days prior to a bleed. Symptoms stop immediately the flow begins. One should feel normal until pre-menstrually ........... slow release foods can help: bananas, dried fruits and nuts, porridge :beaurk: ;D , dried biscuits ....... to keep energy levels even.
It is frustrating at a time when we can feel too ill to press for correct treatments >sigh<.
You certainly need a different Psychiatrist!!
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Hi Nicola, I could have wrote your post, that's just how I feel. I seem to be OK for a few months and then it just floors me,low mood and anxiety. I'm not on HRT but I am on a low dose of fluxatine but I couldn't stand any more and made an appointment with the doctor which isn't until two weeks time. I'm going on holiday next week but I can't muster any pleasure or excitement, hopefully I'll calm down and enjoy myself. Sorry I can't give you any advice but just to let you know your not going through it alone. X
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Hi
It's good to know we aren't alone! I think even that helps.
Antidepressants just have no effect for me because I know my depression is hormonal.
I think seeing your GP is a good idea.
Let me know how it goes.
N x
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Nik I don't think that being overweight is a contradiction for taking hrt.
For sure it's better for your health you to have a better diet and exercise.
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Hi
I am big and always have been but I'm actually as healthy as I can be. I exercise regularly and eat healthily. I don't have high BP and I'm not diabetic.
I hate how doctors use it as an excuse to withhold treatment grrr
N.
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I really don't know what's wrong with them! I hate the way some of them treat us! They try to find excuses for not giving hrt and let us suffer without offering any help!
I had such a strong argument a month ago with a gyn who tried to scare me about hrt and I am still angry with the way he treated me!
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I had a similar argument with a psychiatrist. Complete idiot.
We know our own body. They just don't listen x
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The arrogant gyn I had the argument said to me when I said that I will take hrt for more than 5 years, that if I don't change my mind I will have to change gyn!
And I said I have already done this! I also said to him that it's all about money! If I wanted a child (I am 42), he would give me higher doses of hormones for months and he would not talk about risks at all!
The whole experience really made me so sad and disappointed!
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Shocking. It's appalling the way some medics treat us x
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Yeah, I felt humiliated and if I have the energy and the time I will sue against him.
He offended me saying that I have psychological problems and that my biggest concern is that I cannot accept aging. I said that maybe he has a point but he is not my psychotherapist!
My whole experience was a disaster!
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You save your energy, you won't win. The medical profession closes up :-\ ........ many are still tied into the old 'HRT cancer risks' and simply haven't bothered to read up! Easier for them.
Some medics have ladies on HRT into their 80s! You are right too, my Gynae won't do blood tests for menopause, preferring to treat on symptoms. However, he also runs a fertility clinic and no expense, energy or time spared ........ different age group? :-X
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So true CLKD!
I try not to think so much about and I am gonna stay with my gyn and my endo who agree with me and care.
I will stop asking more gyns for their opinions. It was my mistake! Thanks for replying!
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Not a mistake at all. The Medical profession has many ways of treating various conditions. They don't always work. Some medics have no bed-side manner which doesn't help, I've worked for a few >:(. Others still think that they are 'god' but we know she was a woman ;D
It's the lack of listening to patients who know their bodies!?!
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😘
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Hi Nik, I don't have advise for you but my heart feels so sorry for you. I was on Kliofem for 9 years and it suddenly stopped working. My GP told me I had had a stress breakdown and prescribed diazapham and citalopram. I took the diazapham for 1 week and continued with the citalopram to no affect. Finally contacted a lovely Menopause Specialist who prescribed Everol Conti 50 which worked for about 3 weeks and then I dipped and am now on 1 pump Estrogel and the Everol Conti. However, my life is ruined by complete irrational anxiety to the point that some days I don't want to go on. I truly truly feel for you. I keep going in the hope that one day I will get these hormones balanced. My GP refuses to acknowledge that the episode was hormone linked and keeps wanting to increase my medication. I feel it is also ruining my life so please please take comfort that there are a few of us struggling with this awful thing. Try to work with your GP on the hormones as they maybe able to tweak in the right direction. We are all different and it is not one size fits all. There are very knowledgeable ladies on this forum who have helped me so take comfort from them also.
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Why did you stop seeing the Meno Specialist Mustard?
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I'm sure there must be a large number of women under mental health services inappropriately as the majority of doctors seem to think our anxiety/depression is in our heads. Mine is clearly cyclical! And when the HRT is right I'm fine. Today is the first day for weeks that I've actually felt anywhere like normal so fingers crossed and touching wood!
I hope you find some solution - sometimes it's such a torturous Journey x
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:bighug: and breath. Stand still. Enjoy those feelings.
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CKLD - I haven't stopped seeing the Menopause Specialist. However, I live on Shetland and she is on mainland - so it is not easy. I did send an e mail yesterday as I was doing OK (say OK because I wasn't who I was before all this but it was manageable) then I dipped last week - completely back to square 1. The irrational anxiety followed by such a low mood is really getting to me. Every day is a challenge and I actually now don't know what to expect. My husband has planned a trip a long weekend a way and I am terrified that I don;t sleep and spoil everything - all I think about is meno & not sleeping & how am I getting through the next day. I was very fortunate that I never had any of this until now. I have been given 10mgs amitriptyline to take on top of the now 15 mcgs citalopram. I haven't taken this yet but that will be my next step as I can't continue like ths. xx
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I live in Northern Ireland which is so behind the rest of the world it's unreal. 18 months of trying to sort out my hrt when it went wrong - now my anxiety and depresssion is so bad I cant even speak to anyone because I don't know what to say.
My GP opens her book and just picks stuff - she says we will probably have to go through the whole list of meds! Surely there is some sort of knowledge she can bring rather than just guessing? She makes me feel so bad I dont know how to discuss with her what I think.
Mustard1 my depression and anxiety is taking me to the very edge too - its quite dangerous but I cant find the answer. I did end up at the menopause clinic but I was so disappointed - the lady there was just like the GP she looked in the prescribing book - Is this type of thing normal and what we should expect?
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Ladybt - no you should expect a lot more from a Menopause Clinic as I am sure all the other really helpful ladies on this site would agree too. I think we all know that our GPs may be well behind the new thoughts on anxiety and depression caused by hormone imbalances but the Menopause Clinics should know more. I have been very fortunate with the mainland Meno specialist I have in that I have the feeling that she really cares. However, because it is not an exact science, they have to tweak and tweak for some of us. If you goggle Dr Louise Newson - she has a website www.menopausedoctor.co.uk - I think she can provide an on-line or possible telephone consultation that may be helpful to you. I really feel for you - this is the worst thing I have ever experienced in my life and I've had some great sadness in the passed that I managed. Let me know if that helps. I really know how you feel - it is hell. Mustard xxx
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Mustard1 - part of the problem over the last 18 months has been that the GP makes me feel like I know more than she does and when I ask her stuff or for info on a treatment she shoots me down in flames and makes me feel stupid. She has only just completed an HRT training session and the change in her approach was mind boggling - she has always been very anti and now its the best thing since sliced bread- but she still doesn't actually know anything about it! so not helpful. She just keeps telling me I have to stick with one thing for more than 3 months at time- but I have had 3 of them that made me feel really ill and I'm no better now.
To any of the ladies - would it be worth paying a private consultant bearing in mind they are the same people at the menopause clinic here - I just wondered whether they might actually spend more time and listen if they were being paid - not that I have the money I would need to borrow it?
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Ladybt,
When I wanted to try a different method of oestrogen application and I didn't want to go through the rigmarole of the gp I ordered Oestrogel from onlinepharmacy to try. I got on better with that and allowed them to inform my gp. Then I noticed (without me asking) that it had been put on my repeats list. It was £30 very well spent x
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Really Annie ??? - that sounds wonderful - having read all the posts here I really want to try oestrogel and the progesterone gel you all talk about on here and some testosterone too although I would like more information about what that does but I know it's important. It seems to be a regime that works, is flexible and doesn't have too many side effects from what I have been reading. Could you really order all that from onlinepharmacy? Do you think the ladies on here would be able to help me with the dosages? Thinking about it - it cant be any worse than than what's been happening in the last 18 months - and I might just feel better if I could get on with it myself.
Annie0710 - what is the web address for the pharmacy and what procedure do you have to go through? - Do you need to apply for a prescription from an online doctor in the particular pharmacy to buy the oestrogel or do you just order it?
If you could talk me through it, it's really worth considering - unless anyone doesnt think it's a good idea?
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Really Annie ??? - that sounds wonderful - having read all the posts here I really want to try oestrogel and the progesterone gel you all talk about on here and some testosterone too although I would like more information about what that does but I know it's important. It seems to be a regime that works, is flexible and doesn't have too many side effects from what I have been reading. Could you really order all that from onlinepharmacy? Do you think the ladies on here would be able to help me with the dosages? Thinking about it - it cant be any worse than than what's been happening in the last 18 months - and I might just feel better if I could get on with it myself.
Annie0710 - what is the web address for the pharmacy and what procedure do you have to go through? - Do you need to apply for a prescription from an online doctor in the particular pharmacy to buy the oestrogel or do you just order it?
If you could talk me through it, it's really worth considering - unless anyone doesnt think it's a good idea?
Sorry it's https://www.theonlineclinic.co.uk/
You have to answer questions honestly then with your agreement they contact your gp. Delivery is quick too
I very much doubt they would prescribe testosterone though. Unfortunately you'd need to see a gp or specialist in person for that but I'd think you could get the progesterone capsules (utrogestan) along with your oestrogel x
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Thanks Annie - I will keep on with Premarin/provera for another couple of weeks if I can but if they really don't start to work I think I might give it a go. :)
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I also feel that the gp and gynaecologists haven't done as much as they could. Diagnosed with VA 2 years ago. Given vagifem and investing then 18 months on Tibolone. Now bleeding and waiting for a hysteroscopy taken off her in the meantime and now in limbo. I have never had a blood test or had options explained.
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Daisydot,
Thanks for your kind words, my head's so bad I'm only getting through the day counting hours. Its been nice being able to off-load on the forum today. I have been reading here for ages, I should have joined sooner. I did think about Dr Currie but I have had such trouble with my GP practice that I wondered how they would take it if I rocked up with a second opinion and a list of things to be prescribed. GP's dont react well if you appear to know more than they do - well mine hasnt anyway.
I know that you are supposed to take your HRT for a full 3 months before changing like someone has said already but I worry that I will spend another 3 months feeling rough as hell and dangerously on the edge. 18 months gone and it seems like my life and my health are slipping away. I really hope the pemarin/prova kicks in soon but I'm in the middle of the third week and there has been no change at all.
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I'm sure there must be a large number of women under mental health services inappropriately as the majority of doctors seem to think our anxiety/depression is in our heads. Mine is clearly cyclical! And when the HRT is right I'm fine. Today is the first day for weeks that I've actually felt anywhere like normal so fingers crossed and touching wood!
I hope you find some solution - sometimes it's such a torturous Journey x
Yes, I've had a few visits from the Mental Health Crisis Team in the last few months, when the incessant anxiety has pushed me over the edge or the inappropriately prescribed anti-depressants have made me suicidal. The last time it happened I was visited by a consultant psychiatrist and a mental health worker, and they both agreed that my problem is hormonal, not psychological, and that my GP should have referred me to a menopause specialist long ago. They both urged me to change GP and get a referral, and supported by their reports I did. It just depends who you get on the day though - I've seen quite a few of the Mental Health Crisis team before, and these two (both male) were the first to take the hormonal connection seriously.
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That's great that they recognised your problem and the cause. It's hot and miss with any doctor you see but I always get the miss!
I keep a mood diary now to show medics exactly how my mood dips are cyclical.
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I think it's really bad that something as serious as bad depression is so hit and miss. I have been inside the community mental health team for 2 years and had a few run ins with them in the past but it's no real help because they are not acknowledging or dealing with the underlying cause. The other thing is that it's not until you get older that you realise just how hormone related it is. What gets my goat is that Doctors should have hormone related depression/anxiety on their radar but then women health in that respect is only just coming out of the dark ages!
The last thing they sent me on was CBT therapy in group sessions. When they ended everything stopped haven't heard a peep from them since! How can you just fall off the radar like that - that's bad? no? Also it takes ages to get seen by anyone unless you rock up as an emergency psych admission at A&E and often suicidal depression doesn't present that way. If you're having a crisis you're having a crisis now - no in 6 weeks or 6 months!
Oh dear - sorry guys rant over!
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You rant! Mental Health support hasn't altered much and I've been using services since the early 1990s. Even privately, once I stopped going - because the therapist upset me - no one phoned to see why or wether I still needed that support. It was the fact that the therapist seemed to think that if techniques to cope were written down that they worked! I could tell her which page of which book she was quoting to me. At one point she acknowledged that I probably knew more about it than she did. Well yes, I'm the 1 with the feelings!
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Thing is CLKD - not amount of therapy is gonna help if the problem is really screwed up chemicals in your body. I always describe it like having an untuned engine in a car - if you don't get the oil/water/air and electrical balance right - the engine runs rough/loudly or not at all! - bodies are just the same. If we could all change the way our bodies react just by thinking there wouldn't be about 47k + women posting on this site, the majority of whom have hormonal depression or emotional psychological issues due to the female chemicals in their female bodies!
To me although it might seem far too simple loads of illness that cant seem to be fixed are all to do with in-balance in the body. The NHS never does proper testing of hormone levels - vitamins, minerals, thyroid, cortisol, inflammation in the blood etc.
Are you still seeing anyone? Mental health services are always going on about "your support network". I didnt have anyone - no friends (didnt have time) loads of illness in my family - my mother was disabled - my children were premature and one was a great ormond street heart baby having operations - then I married into a family with genetic cardiomyopathy!! only I didnt know it at the time - so I was always the one looking after everyone else.
Has it got any better as you have got older or have you just learnt to live with it?
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Thank you so much for asking. I will up-date the thread I started on 'my depression' so that I don't hyjack this one. [If I can find it, that is ;D]