Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Scottishgirl on July 26, 2018, 09:05:25 AM
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Hi everyone. Been on this great forum before. Have got vaginal atrophy. Used vagifem successfully . Have had a huge op for diverticulitis 3 months ago, have a temporary bag. Getting reversed next week, so been a difficult time . I let the whole vagifem thing go , ( silly) . Now atrophy symptoms are back with a vengeance! The burning is literally driving me mad. Have just done 2 week load of vagifem again , so now back to twice a week. Not any difference yet at all. Just finished the 2 week load 2 nights ago. I can't remember, but when should I see an improvement? And how does the vagifem keep working after the 2 week load if it's only twice a week after that? Should I have seen some improvement? I know some of you ladies are really good at advice on vagifem. Hoping to hear soon. Desperate.
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I have never managed on two a week, try using every other night, although with me I need to use it daily plus systemic HRT to control the VA.
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I was prescribed two a night for two weeks to get VA under control by meno specialist, as it it is still uncomfortable I would ask if your GP is happy to up your dose.
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Vagifem used to come in a 25 mcg dose but it was discontinued, so the current 10 mcg ones are too low a dose for many. If you used 5 a week you would achieve the old dosage. Perhaps you could try that. I think the stress of your other health issues might have exacerbated things as well. Hope you feel better soon.
JP x
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Use every night for another 3 weeks? Your body is undergoing a huge upheaval and concentrating on the healing process. When I had treatment for cancer I found that healing took much longer: rather than 2 days tops, it could take 3 weeks ........ once I had stopped radiation the healing got back to normal for me.
Use other moisturisers? i.e. Savlon, KY Jelly, Vaseline or Sylc and Yes products. Anything to keep those lips moist!
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Thanks everyone. I am at the end of my tether with everything. The bladder burning is driving me mad. I think I'll continue the load. 2 weeks obviously not enough. What do you all think. Any suggestions in meantime about something natural to maybe rub on outside. This is worse at the moment than the bowel thing. And I've got another small op on Wednesday, to reverse the bag. Very flat at the moment.
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R U in Hospital now? Could it be thrush as well as atrophy? Perhaps if you are on a Ward, get the SHO to take a swab for the Lab. ;-).
Read above suggestions ......... pick what ever you fancy. I have used with success, LIVE yoghurt, eaten and applied. Cooling if nothing else.
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Not in hospital . Funnily enough I thought it could be thrush but got cream and it didn't help . I will try the yoghurt. And keep the vagifem going. Thank you .
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Only tried thrush stuff once but cause I didn't get relief. I stopped (silly?) I usually get relief quickly. Should I try again?
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If you are allowed oral thrush tablets I would try one of those.
Definitely up the Vagifem dose and don't stop treatment even when it improves.
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Will do that . Thank you
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You could ask your GP for Ovestin. It contains estriol and can be applied to the vulval area and used in addition to the Vagifem. A dedicated vaginal moisturiser such as Sylk or one of the Yes products would also be advisable. It's easiest to get these online. You might also find applying organic coconut oil gives relief. Is there any odour or discharge.
JP x
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As an aside: what is the difference between 'organic' coconut oil and any other types? The 'oil' comes straight out of the nut and any 'meat' - the white inner - is pressed to get more oil from. Although I prefer to eat that and drink the 'milk/oil' - coconuts by their nature have to be organic, surely?
ScottishGirl: You could start with a dose of VA treatment right now and another at bed time ...... I found Canestin ointment made me burn instantly :o so had to get into a cooling bath :-\
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No there is no odor just discharge
From Vagifem. I have organic coconut oil. I must admit it has a wonderful cooling effect. I just wasn't sure if it was ok to use it.
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Also, could I use thrush cream and vagifem at night? I think I need both atm Can't get in to see GP.
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Meant thrush cream in morning and vagifem at night.
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Thanks Jeaniewigs.I must admit I love the stuff. Put it on my face too.
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Well ladies pressing on with vagifem. Still burning. Maybe not as bad? But still debilitating. I'm just going for the 3 week load instead of 2 weeks. I have health anxiety. Now I'm paranoid there's something wrong with my bladder. ( Cancer ) Defo no uti though.
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It's not burning when I wee, just burning all the time. I guess the atrophy can do that?
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Sounds like you have had a rough time recently. I'm not surprised you health anxiety! It probably feels like one thing after another. I can't advise on the VA but the other ladies have given you loads of great advice above. Regarding your reversal op, I really hope that goes well. My dad had similar, a bag and then a reversal and it was very successful. Needed to take on board lots of post op diet changes. Can recommend lots of diet tips for that. Thinking of you during what I suspect is a long, sleepless night. Hope you get some relief using the tips above xx
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Thanks Agatha c, I sure have been through a lot and I really hoped I could get on top of this burning before my op on Wednesday. I don't want to be dealing with bladder and bowel,issues, bladder thing is giving me most trouble at the moment. Very depressing. Thank you for your kind words .
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Anyone tried vitamin E. I have read some good Thi has about it. The oil Inserted vaginally.
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I haven't tried Vitamin E, but 'Yes' water-based works wonders for me. I also use Estriol Cream (not Vagifem) twice a week as the gynae said that would be more helpful for me as my soreness was mainly in the undercarriage area. Also when I did try Vagifem it didn't suit me and made things worse.
I hope that might help in some way - good luck!
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My discomfort(pain actually) is in the bladder and burning vaginal walls . So miserable.
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You could try 'Yes' water-based used vaginally (as I also do) or 'Yes' VM, but not at the same time as Vagifem, or you could even try Estriol Cream or Ovestin if you think Vagifem is not helping that much.
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Problem is I can't get to GP before my operation on Wednesday, and where do you get the yes stuff from, and would that stop the bladder pain. Thanks so much for your help .
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You can buy 'Yes' products from Holland and Barrett. All I can say is that it helped me, but of course we are all different - sorry I know that is not much help. The 'yes' website has lots of useful information, if you would like to have a look there:
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Thank you Jenna. Much appreciated.
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Thanks Jeaniewigs. I'll try all that. And I'm married to a randy Irishman lol. Does that mean tea is out? I love it .
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;D. Red Bush :sick02: ::). I find that caffeine makes me queasy anyway even though I love the smell and often 'fancy' a cup. But have learned to avoid.
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Jeaniewigs, I'm just wondering about decaff tea for Scottishgirl, although didn't like to suggest it in case it's not a good idea! I have decaff tea and decaff (real) coffee, although only a couple of cups of each per day, and no longer have any problems. We know that caffeine stimulates the bladder, but I'm just wondering whether even decaff would be too acidic. What do you think?
Scottishgirl, redbush tea is smashing. It is alkaline too, which would be good for you in the circumstances. I must get around to trying Jeaniewig's vanilla version. You can get an Earl Grey version as well.
Hope you feel some relief soon, but it does take a while to settle.
JP x
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Why not open a coffee jar and breath in ............. ;)
Onions do it for me too, love the smell, taste, texture - but am highly allergic unless they are in chutneys :-\
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Many thanks Jeaniewigs, good advice and makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad I can get away with decaff now, and occasionally even the real thing if I'm out somewhere, though never dare push my luck too far! Really must try that vanilla redbush.
Thanks again 😘
JP x
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Aw thanks everyone. I love this forum. I've been so miserable, having to face more surgery on Wednesday and the bladder thing, it really makes me feel like people care, and more importantly, know how you feel. I live in Australia, and to wake up to these responses this morning makes me feel like I've got friends that are concerned for me. I will try that herbal tea, although, being born in Scotland, I must admit, I love my cups of real tea! I only drink it in the early morning though. Never the rest of the day. Just don't enjoy it the same as in the morning. I will try it , and also hope the vagifem kicks in, it did before, so surely it will again? . Thanks again. So much appreciated . 😀
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Scottishgirl - me too, as the day goes by my sense of taste seems to alter :-\ so that a lovely cuppa first thing: that's anytime after 8.30 in this household ;D through to 10.00 :whist: : isn't as nice by mid-afternoon and by evening :beaurk:. What's that about?
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Yep its weird isnt it? Tea at 4 not the same at all as tea at 8 in morning 😂
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Yep have cut out the tea and see how i go. Bladder still sore, after i wee. I worry about cancer. (Paranoid) . But its probs the atrophy . Also had an abscess stuck to my bladder aftrr the diverticulitis but that was 3 months ago and that was removed.
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Thats so true. And i am stressed about my op on wednesday, so that makes sense. Thank you.
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The op will be fine ;). Is it likely 2 take as long as the original intervention procedure?
How's the weather Down Under, we've had drought for 8 weeks which has broken over-night. Temps of 29 and 28 last week :o which is probably cold for you :D
We do worry about cancers etc. but the worry is often worse than the diagnosis and treatment. It was the unknown that worried me :-\
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This op is much simpler than the first one. Quite straightforward. Its cold here in south australia. Its 7 celcius overnight. Cold winters boiling summers. I love heat though! But 40, which happens sometimes, is too hot! Lol.
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CLKD do yoi mind if i ask if you joined theforum because of atrophy?
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Hi! I got here via the UK Ovacome Charity as a friend had died from ovarian cancer. There was an article in the magazine which led me here and I have learnt a lot.
My GP diagnosed atrophy. After intermittently having urine infection-type symptoms and being treated on dip-stick results for 'infection' : of course ABs certainly eased symptoms : my GP picked up that samples hadn't bene sent 4 testing. When symptoms became more often he recommended appropriate VA treatment. Now it's up to me to continue in order to keep the area moist.
It is 1.30 p.m. here, 2.30 in Paris .......... 7 is COLD ;D
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Same as me in a way. Lots of uti's that werent showing infection . Some real uti's. Finally a clever gp diagnosed atrophy. Horrible condition . Especially as ive had the bowel problems as well. This forum is great. So glad i found it
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You are welcome. Pity more GPs don't know about MM!
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Hi everyone. Just checking in. Bladder much the same, even had a couple of painful contractions yesterday, but it did I occur to me if this could be dehydration, and affecting the bladder even More. does that make sense? People with iliostomies are always dehydrated to a certain extent, and I have not been drinking much at all. So have remedied that and added some hydrolite too, so hoping that makes a difference. I will let you know. Op is tomottow. 7.24 in morning here in oz, so will be hydrating all day today. Fingers crossed.
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Hope all goes well, let us know when you feel able?
Keep up with the atrophy treatment and maybe take a pain relief medication to ease symptoms?
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I will certainly let you all know how i go. Thank you. This forum has been great for me.
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Hope all goes well tomorrow xx
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Thanks so much. Be lovely not having a bag. Just hope bowel kicks in without too much pain. I'll let you know 😊
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Wishing you all the very best, Scottishgirl. :hug:
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Thank you so much Jenna. ;)
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Are you likely to suffer with wind initially? If so, avoid peas? ;)
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Good luck 😘
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Yes i imagine i will need to be careful with my diet. Good news though ladies, i dont k ow if it's the extra water ot vagifem kicking in, but bladder feels better. Yay! Thanks for all the good wishes.
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Job done yet?
Keep hydrated, it won't do any harm. Keep using the appropriate moisturisers etc. .......... and the moment symptoms return, do another 2 week loading.
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Its 11.55 evening. Op tomoz. Will defo keep hydrated. And keep up with the vagifem. Thanks so much for your support. Will keep you posted.
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:bighug:
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Quick update ladies. Had surgery late yesterday. Have had quite a bit of pain during the night, so plenty of pain relief. Bladder feels fine. Whether its the vagifem load or fluids i dont know but I'm so relieved. Soneone did say they woukdnt use vagifem, but i said if you had this you would! No second thoights! It wasnt a nurse either, just someone i know who doesnt have vaginal atrophy! 😊
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Pleased to hear surgery all done. Now just got to recover. Onwards and upwards Scottish Girl xx
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Yep!
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:foryou:
feet up. Relax. ........ and breath - who is looking after your food requirements ? ;)
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Light diet in hospital until bowel starts to work. . Feeling bloared but no wind sounds yet . Vant go home until it all works normally 😕
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Meant wont go home until it all works. I sounded like Greta Garbo. I vavt to go home lol.
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Hi Scottishgirl - I hope you are going on OK. How are you feeling now? :foryou:
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Hi Jenna. Bowel is active. Wants to work ut hasnt yet. Unfortunstely has made me feel sick but it will work soon! Gurgling and making lots of noises.
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I'm sorry you're not feeling so good at the moment, Scottishgirl, but hopefully you'll see some results very soon. It's all sounding very positive. You'll soon be home. :)
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Yay. Bowel working. I have frequency but that's to be expected at first. Hopefully settle down soonish.
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Wonderful news, Scottishgirl - I'm really happy for you! Soon be home now. :)
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Thank you Jenna. And will keep up the vagifem too!
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That's great news Scottishgirl but do keep up the vagifem.
Lanzalover x
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I feel queasy when my bowel is 'full' or slow ::). Are they feeding you a special diet thus far in order to active spasm?
:foryou:
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Yes a light diet, but i feel really sick and cant face the thought of food at all.
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Is it wind backing up and causing your gut to feel queasy? I HATE that!
What do they suggest? Perhaps an anti-sickness jab would get you eating again ;-).
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Problem with me is trying to find something that stops nausea. I am allergic to some anti nausea meds and the others just don't work. I've always had a problem with this. I hope it resolves by itself . It's very early days so let's hope so.
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How R U today? Thought of you when I woke at 3.30 as I felt queasy. Probably due to my body being hungry?
Could you try a banana, dried fruits/nuts - little and often. Has anything been suggested?
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Still nauseared. I have this tendency. Nothing works . Its probably the bowel and everythinh kicking into action again after not working for 3 months. Im hoping to go home today though. Maybe be better off there. Thanks CLKD. Ill keep you posted.
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I'm queasy today. The weather is too warm. I'm burning off energy that I can't replace :'(.
Welcome home?
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Its cold here. Pouring outside but we need it here. There are serious droughts in parts of Australia. We need rain in winter because we dont get it in summer.
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Yes it can get very hot. Too hot sometimrs and i like heat! Some parts, like Darwin where my hubbys couzin lives, never get cold, but they have a wet season. South Australia can be very cold, in winter. Autumn is best, just perfect. 28 degrees most days.
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Just letting all you lovely ladies know I'm home from hospital. Bowel taking a while to adjust but its working! Yay. Bladder has been good too. Here's hoping it stays that eay. Thanks for your support. I feel like you are friends . 😊
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That's great news Scottishgirl, so glad things are going well! Keep up the Vagifem!
JP x
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Wonderful news, Scottishgirl - keep up the good work! :foryou:
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Thank you Jenna x
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I sire will joaniepat! 😊
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:foryou:
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Scottish Girl - thinking of you, glad you are at home and wondering how the bowels and bladder are a week on? Hope some improvement x.
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Hi Agatha c. Thanks for asking . Have had a few advrntirrs with bowel. Very unpredictabla and painful at first. Having to take laxatives. Not used to them! Settling a bit now hopefully. Bladder has been ok but when i use bowel, bladder is sore for a while after, but in original op there was an abscess stuck to it so its to be rxpected i suppose, but hopefully not permanent. Still making sure i use thr vagifem too. Surgeon encouraged that.
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Do you sit on a cushion with a hole in, like a swimming ring? Eases the nethers ;)
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Hi daisydot. Yes i use coconut oil a lot. Everything is going back to normal bowel-wise . Bladder is s bit stingy again though (sigh). I'm not sure if its frommy bowel or the atrophy. There was something stuck to my bladder when they did the first op. But i think its the atrophy.
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Actually daisydot thats a good idea. Ill try that.
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Yep Jeanie. You are right. It was fine for ages and I'm sure it will be again. Just got to keep trying.
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I get an irritated bladder prior to symptoms kicking in, at the slightest niggle I do a 3/4 night continuous use of Ovestin which knocks the VA on the head. Also I find taking a couple of Nurofen eases symptoms.
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Is ovestrin the same as vagifem. ?
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Scottishgirl, they are not the same, as they contain different oestrogens. Ovestin is a cream containing estriol and you insert a measured dose with an applicator. It can also be applied to the vulva. Vagifem contains estradiol. The procedure for both is the same: 14 days initial load up and then at least twice weekly.
Another vaginal delivery system to consider is the Estring. This is a silicon ring which stays in the vagina for several weeks and delivers a steady dose of estradiol. It is supposed to last for 90 days, although I find it runs out of steam a bit towards the end of its life.
JP x
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Tried to reply before. Its definitely back. The burning pain in my bladder etc. Its def the atrophy. I missed the regular vagifem use in hospital. Do you think it would be okay to do 2 week load again? I love advice from you ladies. You answer quickly and we are all going through same thing. I'm miserable. Bowel working well? Healing well. And now this again. Advice welcomed.
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Yes, definitely do a 14 day reload with the Vagifem and follow all the other rules for looking after your bladder. I'm sure the relapse is because you missed the regular doses while in hospital. You can never let up with VA or symptoms will return. So pleased to hear the bowel is improving, that's good news!
JP x
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Its brilliant news. I've made a good recovery after a year of bad health. Just need to get back ontothe vagifem reload. It worked well before. Thanks for the advice and support. ❤
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Definitely do a reload Scottishgirl and again if you have flare ups in the future. Wishing you well x
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Hi Scottishgirl, I have terrible va off & on. Use vagifem as the ladies have said - doing a reload when really bad. I also take Optibac probiotic intimate flora, 1 a day, you can buy them from amazon & am now much better (touch wood) I know they are a bit expensive but I was happy to try anything x
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I would be happy to try anything. Thank you for that. So great to have all you ladies giving me advice. Thank you so much.
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Reload, reload, reload ............ then use alternate nights for a week and see how your vagina feels.
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CLKD thats what ive started. Used it twice last week and last night I've startrd the proper reload. Its good to know i can actuslly take positive action. I always worry its not going to work. Thats my anxiety though. Or i worry aboug it's safety. I'm ignoring myself thid time lol. Thanks so much for the advice. I love this board.
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You worry - once you get using the product and find the benefits, that worry will disappear ;). DH tells me often 'if you took your own advice more often' ;D
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That's so true . I would be advising someone else to do exactly what I need to do myself.
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First of all, pleased to hear that the bowel is working well. That was a major operation and you should give yourself a major pat on the back for getting through that! You just need to get the other downstairs bits working 100% and you will be like a new woman. You sound much more upbeat and I expect it's such a relief to have the operation done and dive successfully at that. Good luck and keep us updated. Thinking of you down under! Xx
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Thanks Agatha. Yes I'm glad it's all over now. It was a big operation, and then a bag, and then a reversal, so a huge 6 months, and a lot of bad health before that because the specialist involved was just not listening to me. We know our own bodies! And that goes for any health problem. The surgeon that did my ops said, I don't look at blood tests, they are an aside, I listen to symptoms, wisest medical professional I've ever been to, because my blood tests were fine, but when he got inside, it was a mess in there, abscess too. Just need to get the bladder to behave now. It's probably had trauma as well and only 19 days since the last op, thanks for the eccoouragement, it so much appreciated.
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Thanks Daisydot. I've always said to my daughter and daughter in law , women are amazing, strong, and brave, so I try to be a good role model. I'm not a particularly brave person really, when the surgeon told me I would need a bag, I was horrified, and then just thought, well it's not cancer, so I'll deal with it. We lost a little girl to cancer in 1989, she was our second child, so I think of her, and I just get on with it. I have a terrible fear of cancer, as you can imagine.It gives me strength thinking of her, and what she went through. But having said that, it has been a tough year. This forum has also given me much comfort, because atrophy is just so very distressing, and I get lovely support from the amazing ladies on here . 😊
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Thank you so much .
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Half a day at a time. Children deal well because they often don't have the same sense of time and often, sleep more than an adult might do ::). It is also known that children will 'slip away' when the parent/s leave the room ......... maintaining a sense of control.
Little steps. Keep on with the treatment ;)
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Yep. Keeping on. Hoping doing the reload will work. Fingers crossed. It's late here . Midnight, and looking back on the day, I think there was some improvement. Time will tell.
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5.00 p.m. - nearly T-time here ;)
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Hi everyone. Well had a follow up at surgeon today. Have had a Really uncomfortable couple of days . He thinks I've got a urinary tract infection. ( had many of them) because things got bad yesterday. Weeing all the time, pain etc. felt pretty rotten at bedtime. I said to him, but vagifem usually helps that,and until yesterday the symptoms were like atrophy, but as he said , things have been pretty mixed up down there. Bladder was fine for the 3 months I had the Iliostomy bag. But now, as he said, it's all woken up down there, bowel very active etc. makes sense. He was very pleased with the bowel though, because he said it was a mess to repair. I was worried my bladder may have been damaged, but he said his gut feeling is a uti, so I'm on antibiotics. I have a lot of faith in this guy, he's amazing. I just hope he's correct about the bladder. I usually know fairly quickly as the antibiotics kick in. Also, I did read that after an Iliostomy reversal. Uti is quite common. Hope my next post is more positive!
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Also meant to ask, should I be continuing the vagifem upload, or go back to twice a week until infection gone? Anyone know what I should do? Forgot to ask doc. Thank You.
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Carry on with the nightly use. The Dr should have sent a sample to a Lab. though, one can't 'guess' at a UTI as VA mimics infection really well. Maybe get a sample to that Dr and insist on a Lab. test, so that you are on the correct ABs!!! in a few years the World will have no means of defence against infections due to over-use, your Dr should be aware of that.
Keep using the Vagifem nightly. Until all the symptoms have resolved. What we are not told is that originally this medication was prescribed at 25 B4 someone panicked and decided that 10 is enough :cuss:
Feet up. Enjoy your day!
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Oh and take some pain relief regularly as it can ease symptoms.
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Yes that occurred to me. I asked him if i should get a sample as i know va has been misdiagnosed as as uti with me before. But it def felt like an infection yesterday. Kept weeiing, felt shivery etc. Thats better today. I think personally there is 2 things going on. I think its va and an infection. I have had some nasty ones in the past. By now the antibiotic ( for me) has usually knocked it on the head. But some symptoms still there, and thats the va i reckon.
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Morning! 10.00 a.m.-ish here. Dull. Overcast ::)
If you are shivery that certainly leans more towards infection. The ABs certainly will help - I remember sitting on the loo which was the only place I could relax enough not to feel uncomfortable: glass of barley water [a kind of squash diluted] in one hand and a cup of tea in the other, weeing continually and sipping until the pain relief and ABs kicked in :-\. It was that sudden nip as the bladder emptied that made me go 'oh!'
Keep on with the treatment ;-). How's the weather down there? We are heading towards a Bank Holiday weekend which is often wet because people have fetes, dog shows; motor sport etc., across the UK :-\. Or it can be very very warm ::)
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Yes unfortunstely im still getting that "nip" even after i use my bowel. I'm not sure whats going on. The ab's should have kicked in by now. I'm so over all this. The weather is cold. But 21 today, so nice in the actual sun although i wasnt out in it. Very cold at night.
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Could there be a lot of bruising in that area? hence the 'nip'? Keep hydrated. Keep with the treatment/s ....... and rest! Your body has been through a lot. :foryou:
9.45 p.m.
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Yes there could be . My external,wounds are looking good and healing well, but little bruising there, so it would make perfect sense that internal bruising is very much a factor here. I'm an impatient bugger, I think if my bowel is doing ok, then so should everything else lol. Also,the pain pills I was on before could have masked some of that. I'm off them now because I don't need them. Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated, and needed! 😊
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Morning! Or should that be sleep tight ;)
Little steps.
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Hi CLKD. I have a question for you and the other ladies on the forum. My doc has put me back on diazepam for anxiety. I didn't take them for ages because I was on strong pain pills. I take them 2 morning , 2 night. Well this morning my bladder felt much better and to tell the truth I forgot all about the diazepam. Bladder was good today. Just took 2 and Lo and behold , half an hour or so,later my bladder playing up again. I wonder if it's relaxing and / or irritating it. Could be coincidence. Any thoughts on this ladies?
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What's the dose of Valium? I was prescribed 10mg 3 times a day years ago which reduced to 5mg twice a day and then 5mg as necessary.
It is used in the UK as a pre-med, as a relaxant when people have low back pain etc. as well as for 'nerves'. Probably a co-incidence. How is the anxiety after swallowing the Valium ?
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It's 10 mg when needed, usually morning and evening, I have a generalised anxiety disorder, mainly because, as I've mentioned on this, I lost a child in 1989, so it has come and gone. Been on and off valium( diazepam for years) they don't make that much difference, to be honest, in fact I felt more energetic off of them yesterday. The main thing I need them for is sleep at the moment. But so strange that when I took them I noticed a distinct change in bladder discomfort. Maybe coincidence, or maybe they are relaxing the bladder too much, which is making things worse. Time will tell I suppose.
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It's 10 mg when needed, usually morning and evening, I have a generalised anxiety disorder, mainly because, as I've mentioned on this, I lost a child in 1989, so it has come and gone. Been on and off valium( diazepam for years) they don't make that much difference, to be honest, in fact I felt more energetic off of them yesterday. The main thing I need them for is sleep at the moment. But so strange that when I took them I noticed a distinct change in bladder discomfort. Maybe coincidence, or maybe they are relaxing the bladder too much, which is making things worse. Time will tell I suppose.
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Do they help you to sleep? As a relaxant they may well have a reaction on the bladder which is already sensitive.
Maybe have a couple of days without the 10mg and see how you feel overall?
How's your day looking?
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Yes I think I'll do that and see if it helps. It's 4.50 in the morning and I can't get back to sleep, so I'm annoyed lol. So I'm reading .
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Oh we had a bookworm thread here years ago. I'll go have a look ;-)
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At least it's curable lol