Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: paisley on May 24, 2018, 12:58:25 PM
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Hi I started a low dose oestrogen only HRT 6 weeks ago. It is a spray that I got because I live in Spain. It is probably equivalent to 25 patch or 1 pump of oestrogel. Anyway I feel like I go 1 step forward & 5 steps back. Yesterday I had a bad crash, anxiety, weepiness etc. I don't want to change anything for 3 months to give it a good go. I know some women say they have started HRT & within a couple of weeks they have felt great. Is there anyone else for whom it has taken them a lot longer to stabilize on HRT. I know we are all different. Thanks
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Hi Paisley, sorry no experience on anything other than tablets, I'm sure the more knowledgeable will be right along. Maybe the dose is two low ?
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Hi paisley sorry to hear that,I would say it took me a good 6 weeks plus to get any kind of stability with the oestrogen,I'm hanging fire on trying the spray right now as like yourself I don't want to rock the boat too much when I have other issues I need to resolve,maybe you need to increase the spray dosage to get a higher fix on it if you've been taking it 6 weeks now I'd try increasing the sprays as you've had a chance to build up at least some reserves you can always drop it again if it doesent suit.xx
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Thank you both for your replies.
I think I will just wait 3 months & see how things are then. The weird thing is yesterday I felt so awful & this afternoon felt better. I don't know if I am coming or going sometimes. Up one min & down the next. It is so unnerving to not know how you will feel from one hour to the next.
Thanks xx
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That's the biggest issue most ladies have with this hormonal stuff it varies almost on an hourly basis until you can get that stability, then, if I'm honest you don't even think about it and you have to sit and think now what symptoms “don't†I get now and it really can be hard to remember.That time will come again for you paisley your lucky in that you have the sun to help lift your mood and it allows you to get out and about more so hopefully that three months will pass quickly for you.take care xx
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Thank you so much Daisydot for your lovely post. It really does help xx
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That's only what we should be doing,helping each other though the hard times.It will pass,keep on the forum and keep communicating and passing on your knowledge it's truly a lifeline for some ladies we've all been there xx
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I've been trialling various tablets & have found the 3 mths really are a good test. Twice I've felt ok for the first 2 months with the 3rd going haywire. I've just started the 3rd month on the latest & so far so good. So yes hang in there if you can. It might suddenly balance out.
Good luck.
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Thanks Suziq99
I hope it continues to work for you xx
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Hello again, Paisley. :)
I've rejoined the forum, so we can do this together if you'd like as i'm having to start HRT (you may recall I'm 3 plus years into surgical menopause). I was advised this could help me a lot to ease some of the symptons related to my Multiple Sclerosis which was diagnosed last year. It can be beneficial, according to research!
I will be starting in 3 weeks, under close professional supervision. I flirted with a 25mcg estradot patch, but it really didn't have any discernable positive effect (this was under my GP, who was too scared to go any higher given my circumstances). I gave it a good few weeks too.
So i'm thinking for you that it might be an idea to raise your dose now after 6 weeks? I know over at Hystersisters (whose go low and slow mantra I very much follow) that Surferbabe (one of the mods) says that a 25mcg equiv. dose is unlikely to help with surgical meno. symptoms - and is only really advised for use for minimal bone protection for ladies post natural menopause.
I also recall I think that you have problems with fluctuations like me? (I now know why my CNS is so sensitive)! I know when I was nearing the end of day 3 of the 25mcg patch that I had a feeling of 'crashing' - so this could be happening to you as the small one spray dose may be leaving your system each day after just a few hours. Also, don't forget that estradiol daily dosing decreases significantly in the body after 12 - 15 hours and us girls without ovaries can really feel this if our dose is too small. I hope this helps!
I'm sure you've checked out the Surmeno Connection website (which has recently been updated), but if you haven't, it's another very useful resource for us. xxxx
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Hi Tempest
It is so lovely to hear from you again but I was hoping that because you weren't on here that you were now stable. How are you feeling? Sorry about your multiple Sclerosis diagnosis. How is that impacting on your menopause? I am 7 years post hyster & still trying to find balance. I was off HRT for a year & was gradually getting worse & so had to restart it again but it is taking so much longer to stabilize this time. We can keep supporting each other. I know what you mean about increasing but it is just that in the past I have never given anything a good 3 months & so this time I was determined to not tinker. Also I started perimenopause at age 45 & I am now 54 I was thinking that I might need less oestrogen but who knows. It is trial & error
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paisley, to be honest, I would be surprised if that very low dose (equivalent of 25mcg patch?) would do very much for you other than put you in what I call the HRT half way house i.e. half baked and not quite there. When I used a 25mcg patch I didn't get any benefit at all. I know everyone is different but that is a very low so I would be inclined to use two pumps and split the dose by about 12 hours. You should be feeling some improvement by now and if you are not then it's time to up the dose I think.
Tempest, I'm glad you have come back but sorry to hear about the MS.
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Thank you so much for your kind words, Paisley! Yes - I wish it were true that i'd ridden off into the sunset, as it were!
Symptoms wise which I KNOW are menopausal still are a few hot flushes, damned adrenal surges (urgh - when do they EVER go)! And generally feeling wrung out all the time. Energy of a slug......compounded by MS flare I've just experienced and MS means heat intolerance, so double whammy there! I'm avoiding the heat and sun today like the plague!
I too was guilty as charged of not letting things settle - never managed 3 months on anything either (but i'm blaming that I was trying to fix MS stuff that I didn't know I had with HRT)! I'm sure the specialist who'll be overseeing me now will keep me in check (someone needs to)! ;)
So - I ABSOLUTELY understand your caution. Been there! But as Mary G says, I think (and this is from my recent experience) that a tiny dose does just leave you dangling in a hormonal half baked state. If it's any help, when I previously used 1 pump of gel AM and PM, that was the best I felt so maybe you could maybe think of doing this with the sprays? Once you get 'steady' - 2 sprays AM or PM would probably 'hold' you so that you don't need to go through the faff of twice daily (I've read about such over at Hystersisters).
No wonder we're a bag of nerves though - as they say over at HS, we've been in this hormonal jungle a looooong time already!
Thank you for the welcome back too, Mary G! xxxx
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Yes I think you are both right
Definitely if after 3 months I still feel bad I will increase it to 2. Strangely the last few days haven't been that bad but as we know with hormones it is never that simple or easy.
Tempest which HRT are you going to start?
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That's good news that the last few days have been better, Paisley! For sure i'll be taking it slow and steady, like you. Unfortunately I've accumulated a few specialists since my MS diagnosis but all agree that the HRT is well worth going for.
At my appointment in less than 3 weeks now, we'll decide what to try. I so wish we had the spray here as it sounds good and cuts down on drying times - this is what used to put me off the Estrogel (that and I did notice a big difference when I was given Oestrodose - it's definitely runnier in my opinion and I think I was the first person to notice that on here. Thought I was going bonkers - but other ladies have noticed too)! It gets kinda stale walking around like John Wayne whilst you wait for it to dry on your thighs! :o xxxx
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I know exactly what you mean. I used oestrogel years ago & it took a little while to dry. I do like the concept of the spray & it does dry really quickly. Sod's law though I start to feel a little better & then I have a major family crisis to contend with & we all know what stress does to our HRT. I wonder sometimes if someone from above is looking down on us & picks her, her & her to suffer😗😗
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Did you manage to get your repeat order for lenzetto spray ok paisley,I hope the supply problems have eased off there now.Yes it would be great if it was available in the U.K. but you never know it might happen one day,I do hope so.x
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Oh, you know it Paisley!!! I've been hit with a stomach virus - started yesterday. It's rife at the moment with the heat here (we're not used to it in Scotland)! So all the joys of that plus extra hot flushes (I hate them - I get an 'aura' with mine. Do you get this too)? :(
I'm so sorry you have a family crisis too - we just need a quiet retreat somewhere where we are allowed to adjust in our own time without 'life' throwing a spanner in the works! I hope it resolves quickly for you . xxxx
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Daisydot, yes thanks because of what you said I ordered it the other day & got it. I am on day 47 of first spray at mo so a little bit more time before I start the new one. It is very good value for money. At the moment I take only 1 spray(might need to up it after 3 months) which costs a little over 10€ & you get 52 sprays for 52 days xx
Tempest I hope you get over your stomach bug soon. I hate being ill because that also messes with your hormones doesn't it & makes everything worse. I would so love a women's menopause retreat. The only thing is I could be there a long time. It has already been 8 years with peri & then hyster. My family would wonder what had happened to me. 😉 It's true though meno makes everything else that is going on in your life worse, stress & illness. No I don't get auras with flushes & to be honest the flushes for me were never that bad, it was always the mental problems that go with meno. Xx
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Thank you, Paisley! How do you feel today? I know what you mean about being at a retreat a loooong time! :o
I'm so glad you don't get these blinkin' aura's! They are like a mini panic attack before a flush. I also get these surges of adrenaline that can last hours - no anxious thoughts attached - it just feels quite excruciating at times. I refuse to call it anxiety as I'm not 'driving' it!
I recently got a copy of Dr Vliet's 'Screaming To Be Heard' abd I have to say it's THE bible as far as all things hormonal goes. I understand what is going on so much better! I have read a few books on menopause, but nothing that explains the whole hormonal stramash like this. What a remarkable woman she is! For instance - low estrogen raises norepinephrine and it can get out of control (aka adrenaline), steady estrogen levels keep cortisol in check (the weight gain hormone and another stress hormone), and........most of the brain's estrogen receptors are in the amygdala. The part of the brain that is responsible for the anxiety response and that responds to valium. It's mainly mad fluctuations or a sudden drop that 'shocks' this brain region. Make sense? I know it did to me! Explains so much about my responses to HRT when trying to stabilise and how I felt when I stopped HRT.
If you can get a copy and you fancy it - do!!! It's a massive tome - I got a very good used copy from Amazon at a very reasonable price. xxxx
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Thanks tempest I've just ordered a used hard back copy I still prefer reading from a book lol.great info thank you for sharing xx
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Daisydot, you are going to be BLOWN AWAY by this book! I kid you not! I'm so glad you've ordered a copy - you won't be able to put it down. Let me know how you like it! xxxx
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I will tempest it'll be here 01st to 05th June,I'm presently reading Michael Mosleys the clever guts diet that's a great wee read too I like him he's very down to earth and I love the way he actually acts as a guinea pig on his tv series .thanks again I'll enjoy that.xx
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Maybe I should buy a copy each for the drs in my surgery lol 😂 x
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Good idea Lisa xx
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Wow that is so strange Tempest i have the same book. I too bought it of Amazon about 5 years ago & you are right it is excellent reading. She explains it so well. Apart from the mental things I do get the feeling like I am going to pass out but haven't had that for a while. I really hate the adrenaline rushes too. I used to be such a laid back person. Nothing fazed me.
Daisydot that book sounds interesting. I am reading Kelly Brogans book at the moment called “A mind of your own†& she is really into the gut brain connection.
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It's all in there isn't it, Paisley? I agree with the mind/gut connection - seeing as we have more seratonin receptors in our gut than we do in the brain! Probably why i'm feeling particularly rough today with this stomach virus...... and it's an obscene 28 degrees here in Scotland today. Unheard of! My neuro. was talking about cooling garments to prevent pseudo MS flares, but laughed and said you probably won't need them due to our weather. I bet he's eating his words now.....!:o
Lisa - yup! They all need a copy. And if they won't read it, then it makes a great cosh. It's a weighty book - maybe we could just bash some sense into them! ;D xxxx
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Sounds like a plan tempest 😁 xx
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Where you be, Paisley? Hope you're doing ok! I've just started 25mcg Estradot which is the equivalent of what you're using in Lenzetto spray, if you want to compare notes. xxxx
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Hi Tempest
Sorry haven't been on for a while. Just having a break. How are you feeling on your patch? I am still up & down & I think like all you lovely ladies said I need to up the oestrogen. I have been on 1 spray for over 2 months now & determined to give it 3 months before I increase. Stubborn aren't I? When will you get your oestrogel?
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Up and down on the patch too, Paisley! Went to menopause clinic today who prescribed two pumps of Estrogel (and gave me a prescription for 3 months supply too, which was good). The consultant also specified actual Estrogel on the prescription.
I think we need to increase. A 25mcg patch isn't even touching the sides with me! I'm to return to the clinic in September to review and add Testosterone then, all being well.
Tell me - do they have ANY specific menopause clinics in Spain, or is HRT a DIY thing seeing as how it's sold over the counter? xxxx
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Hi Tempest
Really hope the oestrogel has some effect & yes I do need to increase mine.
I haven't seen any specific menopause clinics here in Spain. I went to a gynaecologist here in Spain & she prescribed my HRT
Xx
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There doesent seem to be a need here for meno clinics ladies as it's very easy to get a gynie without the inflated UK prices.They will then prescribe from a much wider choice of options at reasonable prices ie.lenzetto spray very modern very easy to use drys in seconds unlike the gels.vagifem approx 19 euros a box and estring around 30 euros that lasts 3 months.testosterone 2% gel around 60 euros.Last mammogram I had done here was 55 euros.results in hand in 15 mins.C.T scan with latest high speed equipment under £200 bladder kidneys etc all scanned.results immediate also and consultant specialist available to discuss.I could never fault it when I lived here.pharmacists are so knowledgeable and friendly.
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Thank you, Paisley. You pretty much know all the in's and out's of this HRT game anyway, bless you! Just wish there was that one, easy answer though!
It sounds brilliant, Daisydot! I would rather just pay for the things I need (and the prices are so reasonable) than have to go begging and grovelling to the NHS tbh. It's all so bloody 'nanny state' over here! Occasionally you speak to someone in the NHS who treats you, the patient, as if you are a grownup and the lady I saw at the menopause clinic today wasn't bad. I have a good Neuro. now and my Endo. has been good. Apart from that, it's been pretty abysmal - especially 'first line' i.e. GP's! >:( xxxx
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I'm so glad your getting the help you need tempest you have enough going on without the added battles we seem to encounter at every turn I'm so weary of it all in pretty well stocked up now just in case and I'll have no hesitation doing this again.hopefully my private meno consultant has me pretty much sorted now so I'll just get what I can get on the nhs and pay for what I can't now it's a lot less hassle but if they try and take my treatment away again I won't let them without a good fight.well done xx
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I don't think the meno experts truly understand what we go through. They still assume it is just hot flashes & don't take the mental problems into much consideration The gynaecologist in Spain is ok but she isn't very experienced in the menopause & told me she doesn't usually give HRT to women over 54 but only in special cases & who can't function without it. Yes the pharmacies are good here. I only have to go in & ask for something & she will give it to me. The spray I use is 10€ & you get 55 sprays for that. Even when I eventually up the dose it will still last me over 27 days.
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I have been on 1 spray of HRT for nearly 2 & half months now & had some ups but more downs. Still have hot moments, & all the same mental problems. Do I stick it out until the 3 month mark or increase it now to 2 sprays?
Advice welcome
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I'd say increase, Paisley. I'm currently on 50mcg patch ahead of switching to Estrogel, and have seen quite a big improvement. xxxx
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Thanks Tempest
Really glad you have seen an improvement. You've given me the push I need
Xxxx
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I'm here if you need a chat or support. I know how it is! PM me any time, too. xxxx