Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Greenfields on July 26, 2017, 10:33:09 PM
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Haven't posted for a while (BTW I just completed my Masters in Social Work in Canada for those who know of me from earlier posts - yay!). But had a query about the pap test and menopause.
I've never had any issues with painful pap tests previously - but today I had a very painful experience and I wondered afterwards whether it had anything to do with the menopause? Just curious as I googled a moment ago and saw others had had this experience and various factors were attributed to it - including thinning of the vaginal lining?
It wasn't too painful initially when the nurse practitioner inserted the thing in - but then it seemed to go very high up into me and that was very painful and then when she started to clip for samples, it was excruciating!
I'm conscientious about going for tests but after this latest one, I'm not looking forward to the next one! So just wondered what people who've experienced painful tests have done for subsequent tests that might help?
Thanks! :)
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Just popped in to say well done on your Masters :congrats:
And I'm thinking it does make sense that menopausal changes could well cause problems - no personal experience but others might be able to help.
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I have a moderate prolapse, but my doctor uses a brush and sweeps the cervix. I haven't had one of those "bitey" type paps done in years.
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Thanks for the congrats! I am doing well - got to look for work (oops!) but so pleased to have completed the course and I really want to work in the area of supporting women through menopause. Not sure there are many openings here in Canada yet but I plan to write and bring attention to the area regardless of where I end up working! But have taken July off to get some rest after all the studies!
BTW I could never have got this far without all of you on the board ... honestly it was a bedrock when I really really needed it - I am so grateful to you all.
Thanks for the info you posted daisysareyellow - I am definitely going to raise this issue with the hospital gynaecologist I'm due to see in December as I don't want to experience again what I experienced today! It still feels sore! From what I've read online it seems that some women are prescribed vaginal oestrogen (I think) and I would take that if I have to have a bitey type pap in the future. It's either that or I would want my entire cervix and vagina to be anaesthetized! At the moment I'm on oral progesterone (it's called prometrium in Canada) and a gel oestrogen called estrogel and the prescription works for me at present which is great ... except when I'm having a pap smear!
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Hi Greenfields
I have only had one painful pap smear in my life. The doctor who did it was extremely rude and quite obviously did not want to do a pap smear. I learned my lesson that day and only get females to do them. We have two female doctors at my local clinic. Both are older women and go out of their way to make me comfortable. I even had a medical student stand in and watch my last one. My brothers are doctors, so I always allow students in if requested as they need to learn somehow. The instrument they use is a small brush along with the instrument to hold the vagina open (speculum ?) Anyway they brush the opening of the cervix with the brush a few times to get a good amount of cells and apply it to the slide. At most, a pap smear may be uncomfortable, but if it is really painful and you are still in pain afterwards, that is not normal!
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Thank you daisysareyellow - yep, I've never had a painful pap test before. It was with a nurse practitioner - she was nice but did seem a bit nervous although I had never met her before ... so I don't know whether her technique contributed to it. She gave me a physical exam afterwards and that wasn't painful. Looking around online though it seems like it's an issue for a fair few women. I've just been looking at natural moisturisers for vaginal atrophy in case that's what's going on and noticed a UK company make one which is prescribed on the NHS! Gosh I miss the NHS! Here in Canada they have a health insurance system and it only covers the costs of medications in a hospital - not those prescribed outside of the hospital. If you don't have medical insurance through your employer then you have to pay for prescribed medications you use at home in your daily life - and the costs are a lot more than in the UK because Canada has yet to instigate a national drug plan so the drug companies can charge a lot more for medications as the price hasn't been negotiated on a national (or provincial) level (as far as I'm aware).
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Congratulations 😊
Yes it is common for lots of ladies , it comes under the heading of " vaginal atrophy " local oestrogen will help to start using ( if you already don't ) and make the next one easier.
They can use a virgin/ small speculum which should be more comfortable, medium large ones are not needed as per my gynae.
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:rofl:
When I had my last Mona Lisa , I " fanny farted" 😳😳😳right in the gynaes face , we both 😂😂😂. Mortifying.
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Just choked on my cup of tea laughing as I read the last two comments- Brilliant!
:lol:
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That gave me a giggle! I love you guys! ;D ;D ;D
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That made me laugh 😀 ( sorry girls ! )
Lanzalover x
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Hello ladies, I know this thread has been dormant for a while but I just thought I would post this article here https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/16/my-life-in-sex-cervical-cancer-survivor-vaginal-dilator . I find internal examinations very uncomfortable/painful, but think this lady's experience shows that we need to keep up with smear tests (PAP tests) even after menopause. The recall in the UK is every 5 years after age 55 I think. Reading the comments here, it might be worth having a discussion with a Dr about how to minimize pain and general post-mono vaginal and vulval health. Talking to my friends, it does seem that the post-meno woman's needs are mostly overlooked when it comes to pain and discomfort generally and especially if we need an examination.
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Hi Palmtree
You have reminded me I need to make an appointment to have mine done so thank you and :welcomemm:
Lanzalover
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Mine was 2 years ago, I found the OK letter yesterday.
Welcome Palmtree - browse round, make notes ;-)
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I had to have my last one under GA and was in pain for 6 weeks after. What I find really annoying is the patronising little articles that assume women avoid tests because they are embarrassed or it's 'a bit uncomfortable'. When you are experiencing that level of pain, you don't have any energy left over to worry about embarrassment!
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Hi Lanza,
So glad this jogged your memory! Here's to smears! :)
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Mine was 2 years ago, I found the OK letter yesterday.
Welcome Palmtree - browse round, make notes ;-)
Thankyou! I have been a menopause matters gal for a few years but couldn't get my old login to work, so here I am looking all shiny and new. Glad your smear was normal, glad my post is getting responses.
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I had to have my last one under GA and was in pain for 6 weeks after. What I find really annoying is the patronising little articles that assume women avoid tests because they are embarrassed or it's 'a bit uncomfortable'. When you are experiencing that level of pain, you don't have any energy left over to worry about embarrassment!
Hi Dorothy, yes I'm feeling it with you! Discomfort is often used instead of pain and I think medical professionals know this. I had an endometrial biopsy without anaesthesia, and felt faint afterwards with the 'discomfort' or as I called it, horrible pain. Also I had a colposcopy a few years back and was in such pain afterwards that I had to see a doctor 10 days later - she said oh I don't think it could have caused that much pain, implying something else was the reason, had a look, remarked on the swelling and bruising and wrote a prescription, looking a bit shamefaced. The doctor who did the colposcopy rammed the thing up against my urethra and opened it wide enough to see Saturn (sorry TMI). I winced, and he said we could stop, but I thought, what was the point by then? I think we have to be really clear and ask for lubrication inside and out and explain that it's pain not discomfort. Every single one of my post meno friends experiences the same thing when having examinations even those on HRT, and slowly but surely we are raising awareness that menopausal women have additional needs.
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I had mine recently and it was fine.
Don't think anything to do with menopause. All down to the person doing it and their technique.
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I had to have my last one under GA and was in pain for 6 weeks after. What I find really annoying is the patronising little articles that assume women avoid tests because they are embarrassed or it's 'a bit uncomfortable'. When you are experiencing that level of pain, you don't have any energy left over to worry about embarrassment!
Hi Dorothy, yes I'm feeling it with you! Discomfort is often used instead of pain and I think medical professionals know this. I had an endometrial biopsy without anaesthesia, and felt faint afterwards with the 'discomfort' or as I called it, horrible pain. Also I had a colposcopy a few years back and was in such pain afterwards that I had to see a doctor 10 days later - she said oh I don't think it could have caused that much pain, implying something else was the reason, had a look, remarked on the swelling and bruising and wrote a prescription, looking a bit shamefaced. The doctor who did the colposcopy rammed the thing up against my urethra and opened it wide enough to see Saturn (sorry TMI). I winced, and he said we could stop, but I thought, what was the point by then? I think we have to be really clear and ask for lubrication inside and out and explain that it's pain not discomfort. Every single one of my post meno friends experiences the same thing when having examinations even those on HRT, and slowly but surely we are raising awareness that menopausal women have additional needs.
I think the last person who tried to do one when I was conscious realised I was feeling more than 'discomfort' as I yelled the place down! :o
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I've always had smear tests when appointments have come through but after the last one I had was so very painful I have ignored the appointment and reminder this time round. I shoved them in a drawer but now reading this thread has reminded me and I think I need to make the appointment as it will be my last smear.
Reading about some of your experiences reminded me that when I had a cystoscopy a few years ago, the male nurse "swabbed" the area with some sort of antiseptic but he did it like he was slapping on creosote with a scrubbing brush! So rough. I wanted to scream at him that this was a delicate atrophied area needing gentle treatment.
Ariadne xx
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My last smear was difficult and painful too, I never find them comfortable, but this was the first I had mid menopause. I had never had this particular nurse do it before, and I tried my hardest to relax but it just hurt like mad. she managed to get what she needed as she said she would stop as it was making me bleed! She also said that the results might come back as inadequate cells gathered to do the test. So I lived in dread of having to go back and have it done again, thankfully all came back normal.
She did apologise and suggested I asked for the different nurse to do it next time as everyone has different techniques. I would never put off a smear but like everyone I really don't look forward to them.