Menopause Matters Forum
Forum Guide and News => Forum Guide => Topic started by: Hurdity on March 01, 2017, 05:46:22 PM
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Today there was briefly a male member who registered on this forum but has now been removed, and I was surprised to read from some members on here that they were not aware that the forum was for women only and some suggestions that there should be a male section of the forum! God forbid! As someone mentioned - it is in the first part of the registration agreement and I'll post the link again because the thread (by the man) was removed.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2650.15.html
"The Menopause Matters Forum is for women only."
It can't be stated any plainer than that – perhaps there should be a sticky post about this?
The reasons are obvious – on this forum women often discuss very private and intimate details and even though we are anonymous – I can imagine some men might recognise their partners for example, and we do not want men reading all that we post. This is the only place that women can safely ask about some of the physical aspects of menopause and relationships, as well as some delicate emotional issues (I am choosing my words carefully as this is in the open section of the forum). We've had some weirdos registering on here in the past! I won't go into details.
There is a whole section devoted to men - the “Man Shed" - where it states that forum membership is for women only and is publicly available here https://menopausematters.co.uk/manshed.php as is all the information on the website, and all of the public threads on the forum can be read by anyone.
This means we can post anything private or intimate in the members only section of the site without worrying, although of course it can't be guaranteed that everyone registered is female. This is not to minimise the problems some men are experiencing but this is not the place for them to ask about them and resources have been provided to help them!
Hurdity x
PS I was going to call this thread male members but we've had misunderstandings about that before! ::)
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That's interesting. I would have absolutely no problem in men reading anything I post, and I'm quite surprised that it is an issue. Most men know as little or as much as I did before perimenopause hit and I personally think the more they know, the better.
Understand this is the forum rules though.
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Me too. I also think their input is very important, but I respect the forum rules.
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I have seen a few posts from men and I actually felt for them as it's clear they are seeking advice on how to deal with what their wife is going through and each post I saw, the men seem to really love their wives and want help on how to get through this difficult time in their lives. None of the posts were derogatory or troll like.
I don't have a problem with it but I can see why others might. The forum can be read by anyone anyway apart from the private section which is for members only so unless members constantly post under the private section their husbands can recognise them just from reading the main forum. My husband knows I use this forum and I'm very open with him about all my symptoms and problems.
Perhaps the men should create their own forum?
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That was a nice husband trying to find out more about menopause and being supportive of his wife. My husband hasn't got a Scooby about the whole thing, despite being advised by me constantly about symptoms and problems. I have told him to Google menopause so he can read for himself what it's all about, as he obviously hasn't listened to me all the other times when I've been trying to explain it to him.
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This should have been raised by Emma :-\ - however, if one GOOGLES menopause one is taken to this Forum apart from the 'private lives' so anyone can access what we have been discussing.
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I just assume we are all women here but who knows ?
Rules are rules but I really felt for that guy earlier
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I think the 'no men' rule is sensible. I try to make sure people I know won't recognise me if they log on here anyway, but while I might just feel a little awkward if a female friend joined and worked out who I was from my posts, I'd be mortified if one of my friends' husbands did the same! Concerned male partners do have the option of reading the general information provided on the website as well as the public areas of the forum, which should give them sufficient information to be able to support their partners.
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But what stops a man posing as a female? Their name wont give them away unless it is obvious
I'm sure it has happened before & would not be surprised if it is going on now.
It doesn't matter what the rules are - if they don't get sussed they wont get booted off.
I'm just surprised that some of you haven't realised it already. :o
We all have to remember that this is a forum open to anyone (apart from the private section - however once one has become a member then that part opens up to them as well).
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I quite agree Cazikins, there could be a number of male members already, it can't be checked. There are so many members who have never posted who have full access to every area of the forum.
Given that aside from the Private Lives area, all is available to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who may be interested, it's all pretty irrelevant anyway.
I'm afraid I've been recognised a number of times now, I'm fairly open about stuff and my experience is unusual and therefore likely to be recognised by my friends, family and docs who visit the site. I'm really not too fussed though, I'm just as likely to have a menopause discussion with my window cleaner or Ocado delivery guys. I clearly have no shame!
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This is purely my personal opinion, so please take as such.
We often bemoan the fact that women are poorly educated and informed about menopause, and it's much worse for men. Women want understanding and support from their male partners, but how can that happen if they are even less informed than women?
There is also a tendency for men (and some women) to make jokes and totally dismiss menopause purely because of ignorance.
I personally don't have a problem with men reading what's on the forum. They can do that without being a member anyway, except for the private section anyway.
This attitude about menopause reminds me of how menstruation used to be such a taboo subject years ago. Keeping menopause a taboo subject where men aren't welcome is only hurting women in the long run.
I understand that there may be weirdos around, but those weirdos can already read most of the forum anyway, or could be surreptitiously joining anyway.
If someone is really concerned about their privacy then it is up to them to make sure they post nothing that can identify them. This is the internet and nothing is ever really private, and people need to remember that.
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My siblings and I were brought up in an open, liberal household where everything was discussed. Sanitary towels and tampons sat in the bathrooms, anything was talked and joked about without embarrassment. It certainly wasn't like that in lots of my friends houses though. My brothers' friends were also unenlightened about many female bodily functions!
My kids were brought up in a similar fashion and have always talked openly about everything, maybe too much so sometimes! :o
I don't have a problem with a cross exchange, though I'm very much aware that some on the forum do. We have to be respectful of that.
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Maybe men should begin a Forum devoted to periods and menopause ? Particularly when families are split, Dads should be able to have access to info.; we all know that men don't talk about 'stuff' other than football ::) and won't use a map :D
I never have had a problem with men asking for advice ........... or reading on here, probably lots do anyway: probably find a lot of it boring ??? ::) ???
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I didn't see the comment discussed but also have nothing against men participating.
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It was late night when I saw his post and I answered him. Next day when I came back, it was gone... if you say so sparkle, then I'm glad he had some help!
When I joined this forum I chose the username Menomale which is an Italian idiomatic expression that means something like "thank goodness", or "it's a relief" and here in Brazil we used it in the sense that "things could have been worse". I just realised some time later that in English it could be interpreted as meno from menopause + male... and I thought, oh no, some ladies will think I'm a man! ;D
Now, where does this "for women only" rule leave the transgenders, non-binary genders and inbetweeners? They are very interested in sex hormones! ;)
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To be honest I feel very sorry for the man who got removed. I didn't see his post, but I can only imagine how he must feel now when, I assume, all he wanted was to be supportive. I frankly don't think that's a good look for MM. Maybe the "anti male" rule should have a rethink.
I think sometimes we underestimate men. A lot of them do want to know more and be supportive. I had an extremely interesting conversation will a male friend of mine a couple of years ago. He's not in a relationship, but he wanted to know more about menopause because his sister was going through it and he wanted to be a supportive brother. He was far more open to talking about it and learning more than some of my female friends.
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I've responded to men before who were also swiftly removed so I wasn't at all surprised.
Menomale, he was informed that men weren't allowed on the site and that he had been reported to Emma, though members continued responding to him. I told him that his account would soon be deleted and that he should use the forum as a guest searching out threads that would hopefully offer relevant advice and solutions. It was also suggested that he persuade his wife to join us.
Hopefully, even as a guest, he can find some of the answers he is seeking. x
As an aside anon1889, I too wish you and your family well. Do look up the BBC menopause link I sent you and maybe sit with your wife to watch it. Given that Dr Curry who runs this site appears on the film, it could be a good reason to research this site with your wife. Incidentally, we don't just discuss menopause, our discussions encompass all sorts of other issues that affect our lives, including our children's experiences and caring for our elderly parents. Good luck to you.
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Now, where does this "for women only" rule leave the transgenders, non-binary genders and inbetweeners? They are very interested in sex hormones! ;)
I was thinking the same thing - it is very unusual to see such binary definitions of gender nowadays.
I'm glad anon1889 had forewarning that he would be removed before it happened, as he really did seem to be crying out for help when he posted.
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Interesting - no comment from Emma or Heather :-\ but I would suggest that Heather thinks about beginning a Medic-led MM Forum for men ..... either as a private room on here as an addition or a totally new concept - we can of course, let men know that such info is now available!
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I admin a pelvic pain group 90% women and the rest men , it has never caused a problem and they are relived to be able to be there.
We complain we need to be heard , yet not allow 50% of the population to partake.
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Thelongandwindingroadthatslovely
Also it could actually save some marriages allowing the guys in , as some of us do go " mad" and the poor men haven't a clue what's going on.
But I obviously respect they are the rules😊but I guarantee there will be men on her.
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:welcomemm: thelongandwindingroad - now I have an ear-worm ;D
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Hi and Welcome TheLongAndWindingRoad!
What a lovely username (it reminds me of the Beatles' song, not the menopause journey ;)) and such a good timing for your first post, the MEN thread :o ;D
Send my congrats to your husband for being proactive and supportive! :-*
This thread reminds me of one episode that happened to me at the end of last year when I registered at the Surmeno blog and was "deleted" by the forum admin because I still have my womb and ovaries... I was trying to help my sister who has gone under surgical menopause and can't read in English... there is only a few forums on this subject in Brazil but they have not been very active lately and the amount/quality of info is inferior. I felt like I had made a terrible mistake and was ashamed! But that is my Asperger mind...
As a mental excercise... I was wondering how MM would be if men were allowed. Not just husbands, but all sorts of men, asking for advice and tips; ranting, rumbling, opening their hearts... ;D Would it turn into a MENopause place? ;D
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I also responded to the poor chap, who seemed to be doing his best in a really difficult situation.
I was one of those who was (a) surprised that possession of a willy barred people from MM and (b) suggested an area for blokes.
After all, we can hide in Private Lives and the rest of it is open to the world - I really don't see why there can't be at least a semi-detached bit where men can post and take part in discussions. Maybe not the rest of the site but they could still read that as they do now.
The vast majority of what we talk about isn't going to be of interest to the most prurient of men, is it? Your average pervert isn't going to be coming on here to get their kicks from discussing where we put our oestrogel is he?
;D
I guess there is the danger of fellas coming on here and mansplaining our symptoms to us but maybe we could vote them off if they're annoying ;)
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Ha, ha, I know a bunch of transgenders who would just love to discuss the sites for rubbing oestrogel and testosterone ;D
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:o
They've probably got better sites for those chats though. Perhaps we should have sent the poor man there. It might have distracted him from his woes if nothing else!
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I think he was really interested in helping his wife and was feeling emotional, that's why he registered and maybe didn't see the rules.
Anyway, I hope he talks to her and maybe she will join in or at least read some useful info here.
Before I registered I had already read many threads, but I guess most of us who are having emotional (hormotional) issues need to chat, get things off our chest...
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So what's the outcome from this? I don't think I've seen any posts supporting the exclusion of men, yet we've had no actual input from admin. I understand they feel this rule is for our protection, but if we don't feel we need that protection surely it's something that should be looked into and reconsidered.
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What about 'The Man Shed'.
Lets hope he was redirected there and not sent away with a flee in this ear.
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I said that I could see the reason for this, but my views were dismissed, and I've been made to feel like I am in the wrong. To be honest, I'm feeling like the MM forum isn't a place for Dorothys either now.
It's interesting how we are so concerned to allow men, transgenders and anyone else onto this forum and offer them total acceptance, but any woman who doesn't wish to be identified in 'real life' is seen as somehow being wrong. Double standards?
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Dorothy, really sorry you feel this way. I don't think your views are being dismissed, just that others have a different view. Suely people would only identify you if they already knew a lot about you? I think the guy who posted has got more to worry about than trying to work out our real life IDs.
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Yes, there is no proof of who any of us are. It's just not possible.
You just have to hope that most people are honest and leave it at that. It's no biggie really. Just be careful what you say and be aware of anything that does not seem quite right.
There a lot of bad stuff out there, but you need a little trust too.
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I don't think anyone has dismissed your opinions. It's just that others have just given their opinions too and they are also valid.
I don't understand what you mean by double standards. Any time you post something on the internet there is always going to be the possibility that someone recognises you. That's why you always need to be careful about what information you post. That's everyone's own personal responsibility.
As has already been pointed out, men can pretty much access 90% of the information on MM anyway without even being a member. To me it just seems like a rule that doesn't really do much except stop them from asking questions, which I would have thought we should be encouraging.
Anyway, as I said at the beginning of my first post here, that is my personal opinion.
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Now, where does this "for women only" rule leave the transgenders, non-binary genders and inbetweeners? They are very interested in sex hormones! ;)
I was thinking the same thing - it is very unusual to see such binary definitions of gender nowadays.
I'm glad anon1889 had forewarning that he would be removed before it happened, as he really did seem to be crying out for help when he posted.
By 'women only' it presumably means those who have (or have had) wombs and who will therefore go through/be going through/have been through menopause?
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When we signed up to this forum we read the rules and agreed with them or why would we want to join? Although it is obvious that we would feel sorry for a man who is seeking advice so that he can help his wife (if indeed menopause is at the root of their problems) it is still a women-only forum and I think that we should respect the original decision to set it up as just that. Obviously there may be men registered on here but if a man joins, stating that he is a man, then the rules have to be followed.
I find the Private Lives section very useful - I wouldn't feel as comfortable sharing thoughts on there knowing that men (maybe my men!) are also reading them. Also, there is a difference between men being able to read 90% of our posts but not comment and being able to read them and then comment on them.
It is difficult to write opinions down on such a sensitive subject without upsetting others. :-\
Taz x
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By 'women only' it presumably means those who have (or have had) wombs and who will therefore go through/be going through/have been through menopause?
They won't all identify as women though.
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If a forum is set up for one purpose, to help, inform and support women through the menopause, you can't really criticise it for not fulfilling another purpose. If there is a need for a forum for men whose partners are going through menopause, I'm sure someone will set one up at some point.
By 'women only' it presumably means those who have (or have had) wombs and who will therefore go through/be going through/have been through menopause?
They won't all identify as women though.
Maybe not, but I'm sure not all the partners who read 'advice for husbands' are husbands (or even male) but no one seems to be complaining about that!
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Maybe not, but I'm sure not all the partners who read 'advice for husbands' are husbands (or even male) but no one seems to be complaining about that!
That language is also very out of date. Not complaining BTW, just stating that you don't often see statements like 'women only' in these non binary times. At the end of the day, this is a privately run forum and it is up to the owners how it is run.
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I know it's out of date, but I like it - I think it's because it takes me back to childhood when that was common usage. :) I'm feeling very nostalgic for my childhood right now (though I'm sure I would have hated to be a woman back then as it would have been far too restrictive!)
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Dorothy - I think we had a thread on childhood memories ; or does my memory lack memory ::). If I remember I'll go 'search'. I'm sorry that you feel dismissed but the printed word is static .......
I joined knowing that it is a medic-led, woman only Forum - where I can say what I like without men lurking. Mine never reads my e-mails or Forums anyway ..... I also have a false name as I don't want to be identified but anyone who knows me well enough :-\ ...... in fact, I did leave for a few months years ago because I had invited a friend who was struggling to join then realised I had given lots away :-X
Time Emma or Heather made comment?
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Wow, ladies. You seem to be finding things to argue about, where there really is none. There is a lot bigger things out there, to worry about than this.
If anyone has any concerns just message the administrators.
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We shouldn't need to do that, 'they' should be reading and making comment .....
I thought of something to add, however, that strange woman in my house has interrupted my thought patterns >:(
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CLKD - that's such a tricky one, isn't it? I've thought of encouraging real life friends to join but realised I might be identifiable and while I'm pretty open about most things, you can ask privately about specific things on here if you see what I mean. So I tend not to recommend the forum because I don't want to be "outed". I can quite see why you might disappear for a few months and rejoin under a new identity.
On the rest of it - I would hate to think anything I've said in this thread might have upset anyone. I agree it's great to have the female support on here. Don't want to lose a women-only space. But it is hard not to feel sorry for a man who was doing his best to ask an informed group of women about what his wife might be going through with good intentions. Perhaps we should have pointed him at the Mumsnet meno board? Wonder if we could somehow signpost men that way?
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:thankyou: - I kept my head down for a while ::)
It's difficult - if men find it as hard as women do to get straight sensible answers from their GPs :-\ ........ hopefully if he found anything of use here, he will direct his Wife to us ......... come on in, we don't bite!
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I'm generally a fairly private person, but I guess I don't have a problem with being outed by friends because I've always been pretty open with them about my experinces in life, not just meno, so I'm sure any who may come here probably would have already heard most of my stories.
Just one more point I will make though is how would any women feel if they weren't allowed to post on say a prostate cancer support forum even though their partner could be affected by it? I think a lot of women would feel they had a right to be involved in discussions about it because it affected their life too, and men can't always be relied on to be proactive about their health. We can't always have everything our way and expect to be included in everything if we aren't prepared to reciprocate.
Anyway it appears this discussion is moot because, by the lack of input from admin, it's fairly obvious there is no intention to even discuss this rule. So be it. They are the rule makers. I don't have any men in my life who are going to need to learn more about menopause because I will tell them everything they need to know, but there are a lot of women who need more male support.
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Dorothy, I've just caught up with this thread and wanted to apologise to you if you feel we've disregarded your comments and thoughts. I really don't think that was intended at all but aside from Hurdity, who made her thoughts very clear at the start of the thread, you are the only one who has expressed a concern about men accessing the site, which must make you feel under attack! So much can be misconstrued from the written word but I really don't think anyone was meaning to cause you offence.
I really don't think anything will change here so this conversation is pretty moot anyway.
All good wishes to you x
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The forum's software has, in your Profile, the option to select if you are a male or female. These are the only two options.
Registered members are allowed access to the Private Lives board. If men were allowed to join, the only way to disallow access to that board would be via the select option in the profile.
There's nothing to stop a man selecting 'female' and then accessing the board.
Women who have been posting for years on the understanding that the Private Lives board is for women only, would be frantically deleting their posts and accounts ruining the forum. Also the legal aspect may have to be considered. If you've agreed to join a women-only forum and find out later that men have been allowed access to your private posts, that's a breach of trust.
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Thanks Emma. The only thing I want to add is this.
Is it possible for any new members to be exclude from the private section till they have made say 20+ posts? a bit like being unable to send private messages till established on the forum?
That way eagle eyed members will be able to spot them & report them as being male. :-\
I have no opinion if we let male members in or not on as I believe that we have had them lurking here for years & years. I always bare that in mind when I post anything.
Cazikins
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Good idea Cazikins.
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Heavens - didn't realise that all this would be unleashed!
Thank-you for clarification of the technical/legal aspects Emma. Is it possible please to have a sticky post in the Forum Guide saying that the forum is for women only if you think appropriate or something in the introductory e-mail which refers to the Registration agreement as it seems that members have not read it? I am still amazed that there are members who were not aware of this.
Aside from these - just to emphasise that there is a principle at stake here too - which is what my original post was about, as well as to help inform those who were not aware of the women only rule. In view of some of the things that have been said, I want to add something to clarify - but I see I have already said it as plain as can be in my original post ie that:
*Men have access to all the information on this website and almost everything on the forum - they just can't post. Campaigning for the education of men in menopausal problems is of course desirable but a different issue in this context.
*There is nothing to stop men posing as women to join the forum (and of course there will be men who are members) but anyone who identifies themselves as such or posts anything likely to make women feel uncomfortable or for example to invite sexual content - whether male or female (which has happened) is soon removed.
It was not only Dorothy who expressed concern about men accessing (posting on) the site and specifically the Private Lives board - Taz did so as well - and I don't think it's a question of numbers - there are several hundred (thousand?) members of this forum. How things have changed - but glad to see it's not just a generational thing. It's not a question of just obeying rules - I am all for challenging rules if they are unreasonable or outdated. A few years ago most of those posting in response would have wholeheartedly agreed and welcomed the continuing restriction of membership of the forum to women. It's part of its raison d'etre surely? I am still incredulous that quite a few of you think otherwise! The Private Lives section contains some very explicit intimate and personal content - without going into detail - which has nothing whatsoever to do with how open some members are about such matters with their nearest and dearest. Aside from Emma's crucial point about the position of previous posts there and implication of any such change, I think if men were permitted to post as members, it could make life very difficult for the Moderators because of the likely need for increased moderation in this section particularly.
None of this minimises the concern of some enlightened men in wanting to help their partners at this critical time specifically through discussion, rather than passively obtaining information as they can do now - but allowing all men to join the forum is not the way to achieve this!
Hurdity x
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Heavens - didn't realise that all this would be unleashed!
I did ;D
It's a subject that everyone is entitled to have an opinion to Hurdity, & some people are giving it in the same way as you have.
Maybe it would have been better for you to have sent your original concerns directly to Emma to sort out - after all she is the administrator. :-\
Cazikins x
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Heavens - didn't realise that all this would be unleashed!
I did ;D
It's a subject that everyone is entitled to have an opinion to Hurdity, & some people are giving it in the same way as you have.
Maybe it would have been better for you to have sent your original concerns directly to Emma to sort out - after all she is the administrator. :-\
Cazikins x
Charming! At what point are you suggesting I should have sent my concerns to Emma? I am confused! Um I didn't have any concerns except that there was a man posting - which as I said in the thread - I reported to Emma (without comment as this was unnecessary!) but started the thread because I was so surprised as I said in my original post and thought it would be helpful to explain since the original thread was lost!
Did I ever suggest that people were not entitled to give their opinion? I just said I was surprised at it that's all!
Hurdity x
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;D I agree again Cazikins, but maybe Emma isn't the only administrator here!
Emma seems able to set out the facts in an undictatorial, informative, unpatronising way, and I applaud her for that.
Taz I'm sorry that I didn't mention you in my post to Dorothy, I had overlooked your comment.
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Please calm down Hurdity, maybe I misunderstood your posts as you do sometimes put a lot of exclamation marks.
What I am trying to say is that as you were concerned about a man posting then maybe a pm to Emma instead was a better option, but you posted about the rules etc in detail on the open forum. You are bound to get responses.
I'm not trying to get at you I promise....oh crikey I'm scared to say anything now in case I annoy you :'( :'(
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Emma hasn't answered suggestions that a man-only area be added or if it is possible to make a different Forum with similar info in it that we have here.
If I report anything untoward to Emma then I say so in the appropriate thread, i.e. if someone is selling porn etc. ;) otherwise, how are other Members to know that action has been taken :-\
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Chill ladies.
Tomorrows another day. :sunny:
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Men - if you're out there, get your ladies to join in: we don't bite, except when there's a 'Y' in the day ;)
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'A few years ago most of those posting in response would have wholeheartedly agreed and welcomed the continuing restriction of membership of the forum to women'.
Times change !
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'A few years ago most of those posting in response would have wholeheartedly agreed and welcomed the continuing restriction of membership of the forum to women'.
Times change !
and attitudes, thankfully. I just think information on what to expect and how to deal with it should go out to as many people as is possible. Everyone should be mindful about protecting their anonymity, if that is important to them. As has been said before though, all a moot point as it is up to the admins what they do.
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Also as a multi-ethnic society if ladies of certain cultures want to find out more info., they won't be relaxed if they think that men are on here too. Despite living in the 21st Century, there is still control by men over their women being seen/examined by un-related GPs and Consultants so having a safe place to browse is important. I was a consort isn't the correct word :-\ to a Consultant but even being present with a Registered Nurse, the lady would not undress ......... do I mean chaperone?
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In my opinion, the inherent concept of a forum relies on its members and the discussion. Thus, for the forum's sake it is healthy to discuss what sort of member is allowed or not and the reasons why it is so.
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Menopause Matters forum's strength is that people who are going through menopause can share information and personal experiences, and discuss them. Hopefully, this helps to educate us and helps us through the maze of the medical system and provides support on the way. It is a uniquely female experience. I don't think most men are particularly interested in joining a forum about menopause. The information is there to read if they want to be informed.
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I applaud the man for coming here and trying to get some info. Hopefully he'll encourage her to join and we can be of some help but right now this is a woman only forum.
I'm old school, I appreciate women only spaces, they're getting rarer by the day but acknowledge that the world is changing and if man pretends to be female and joins, we won't know. Equally a woman could join and read posts with her husband and there's nothing we can do about it.