Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 05:56:28 PM

Title: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 05:56:28 PM
Hi, fellow TAH/BSO and BSO ladies. Hurdity suggested that we might have a thread of our own - so here it is! I'll bump it regularly, but I thought it would be good to have a place where we can all 'meet'.

It would be nice if you could all introduce yourselves so that we can get to know  each other! :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Nikki180515 on January 23, 2017, 06:40:53 PM
Great idea!

I am Nikki, I had my total hysterectomy and BSO in May 2015 aged 43.Was left with no HRT for 6 weeks and my body just went into shock I think from having hormones to having none at all!

After having a mental breakdown and being signed off work and lots of pestering doctors, i finally got an appointment at the menopause clinic, who told the doctors I needed my hormone levels checked - which I had been asking for for 3 months!!!! 

Anyway after upping my sandrena gel to 2mg, adding testosterone and still on 20mg of Prozac. Also adding vagifem and oestrogen cream, I am finally feeling a bit like my old self!

It makes me so angry that we have to suffer like this, due to lack of knowledge of doctors on the menopause - I know there are a few good ones out there though!
The fact we have to fight for menopause clinic appointments astounds me - again I know it's a postcode lottery on what care you get!

Anyway rant over, hope to hear of others positive experiences

Nikki xxxx

Ps one thing I've not managed to sort is the joint pain?  I started vitamin d a few weeks ago, but no improvement! It's mainly my knees that are bad - to the point I was limping around today! 😒
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on January 23, 2017, 07:26:13 PM
Great move Tempest!

I had a BSO in Feb last year, I was classed as post meno, as 3 years since last period.  1 day post op, I started to feel very unwell, thought I was having a reaction to the aesthetic  (and was checked for this), got worse as the days went on, insomnia, head in a complete daze, faint, weakness like Ive never felt before and the very very low. Surgeon dismissed this at first as not hormonal, he didn't know what was wrong with me had a whole raft of blood tests and all fine except.....oestrogen nil (which is what he expected!!!)

After 2 weeks went on Femoston, after 3 weeks started to improve, then 8 weeks in bad headaches started. The surgeon did not want to know! Then got a meno specialist, from this forum and started on oestrodot. Took around a month to feel anything like normal and time to sort out dose. After 2 months I started Utrogestan. So been on oestrodot 75ug for 6 months and Utro for 4 months now.

Rhiner
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: walking the dog on January 23, 2017, 08:14:33 PM
I will be joining you soon ladies im just waiting for a date
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 08:25:32 PM
I think some of you already know my story.... :o

I had a hysterectomy aged 36, and bilateral salpingo oopherectomy in April 2015 aged 46. I went over a year without any HRT at all as at each follow up (every 3 months) my surgeon insisted 'you will be fine. I'm not giving you HRT'. There was no family or personal history why HRT couldn't be prescribed, this was just his preference! I have been under his care for over a decade for complex gynaecological problems and have had many surgeries under his care and previously since the age of 22 - I trusted his judgement but can't believe I was so naive!!!

I managed ok despite having had the classic 'hormone crash' about 8 weeks after my surgery until January 2016 when I was hit with the most awful depression - and the joint pain was unbelievable! I could hardly climb the stairs. Curiously, I never had any hot flushes up to that time though!

I went to see my GP and asked for assistance with HRT, but was offered antidepressants instead. In despair, I tried 3 different SSRI's - each had horrible side effects and I KNEW it was HRT I needed! I then decided to refer myself to the local Sandyford Menopause Clinic who were very helpful and tried to help by prescribing Estrogel.

It became very apparent that my body was having a tough time adjusting/responding to HRT and the Consultant there thought that my estrogen receptors had down regulated. I then went back to my GP and asked as per her advice to be referred to a Menopause Clinic at one of our hospitals, but instead they referred me to the local Community Mental Health Team! My husband, in total disgust, then made a complaint to the NHS about my poor treatment and I was referred to a Consultant at Stobhill Hospital. He again prescribed Estrogel, which I did not respond well to and then switched my treatment to a tiny dose of Premarin (0.3mg). We subsequently tried to increase this to 0.625mg but the dizziness was extremely severe so I was switched back to Estrogel despite not feeling at all well on it.

I then subsequently received a referral to Professor Lumsden's Menopause Clinic at the Glasgow Royal Infirmary and I am currently under her care. I persevered with the Estrogel, and then it was suggested that I might not be absorbing the gel so was switched to Estradot, titrating doses through 25, 37.5 to 50. This was a total disaster!
I AGAIN had to switch back to Estrogel, and at my last appointment 2 weeks ago it was decided that I am not absorbing transdermal estrogen's and I have now commenced treatment with Tibolone. I have currently been using it for 10 days.

Phew!!! I hope that wasn't too long winded!  :o

This thread is long overdue I think! It would be wonderful if we can all use this as an area where we can support each other and share tips - or generally just have a chat! :)

Nikki, I don't have an answer for the joint pains I'm afraid! I've just been referred for a DEXA scan - I've previously had spinal surgery so there is particular concern there (I recovered well from that surgery though, which was in 2008. I'm just hoping I don't now have major bone loss in my lumbar spine)!

I know that 'menopausal arthritis' affects many ladies in natural menopause, but I think we should be routinely offered 'baseline' DEXA scans and again 1 year later as our hormone levels drop dramatically following our surgeries and this rapidly affects bone density. It's a travesty that in most cases, the referral for DEXA is only made following a non-trauma fracture!  :o
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 08:27:28 PM
We will be here for you, Walking The Dog! Please do join in with any questions, I'm sure we'll all be very happy to help and offer support before and after your surgery. xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on January 23, 2017, 09:44:32 PM
Hi all

Hi Ladies

I had TAH/BSO 12 weeks ago,I am 49 and was not entering the wonderful world of menopause as far as I was blissfully aware. 3 months prior to hyster I was given monthly inj of prostap which apparently put me in immediate menopause prior to op. I was prescribed Tibolone to begin straight after op as surgeon stated I would enter surgical menopause, told to take for 3 years and signed off from surgeons care.
All going ok until week 5 post op, woke to a feeling that someone was shaking the bed, was asleep alone, my eyes were involuntary rolling up and down and I became so unbalanced/dizzy I started to vomit, this episode terrified me and I called 111, advised to visit A&E who gave me an injection to stop vomitting and sent me packing. Since then I have been continually so dizzy/unbalanced and feeling like I may faint (I never faint tho) I am sleeping with light on sitting up and won't let hubby in the bed in case he moves!!!! G.P not really interested given meds to mask dizziness which work ever so slightly. I have been referred to dizzy clinic - 6 months wait but I do believe 'episode' to be hormone linked, however G.p and surgeon think not, i have back tracked in my recovery and haven't left the house since 4th January, I was making an attempt to go for a walk daily to aid recovery prior to returning to work.
Have re-visited G.P again in a hope to change from Tibolone to something more suitable in a hope that my balance improves along with my weak legs.
I am fed up!!!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 09:55:38 PM
I'm glad you've joined us, Mer! You can see without exception that each of us have experienced the 'hormone crash' so now you KNOW that it definitely exists (despite what your GP and Consultant have said)! It really is shocking isn't it that we're made to feel as if we're either making this up or we're crazy??? >:(

Please take a little time to have a good browse around and ask as many questions as you like here and on the other threads before you see your GP on Friday so that you're armed with the info you need about HRT types etc. Another good piece of 'ammo' in your case is to actually print off a copy of the NICE guidelines on HRT and take them to your appointment with you, highlighting the areas that apply to ladies after hysterectomy/oopherectomy (regarding referral to menopause consultant and Testosterone replacement, in particular). They really can't ignore or argue with the guidelines - it's your right to be supported and receive effective treatment following your surgery!

I wish I had known all of this following my surgery, but it's been a steep learning curve and if any of us can help other ladies in the same position so that they receive prompt treatment, we are more than happy to! Keep posting, and keep us updated won't you? You're not alone!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on January 23, 2017, 10:06:25 PM
Hello ladies. I have just joined this site,  wished I'd found it months ago. I have just posted on another thread about tinnitus etc., but maybe could share mine and your experiences on here. I'll try and keep it short!  TVAH and BSO 28th January 2016. No follow up appointment.  Had to ask for operation info at pre op assessment, which was 2 years out of date. Knew something was wrong 2 weeks post op. Tried in vein to see someone.  GP's, out of hours, menopause clinic etc . kept saying all is ok, healing well, so wouldn't refer me to emergency gynae.  I had been googling and thought to my horror I had a prolapse.  Rang consultant secretary, she got me an appointment through the back door with emergency gynae,  yes prolapse.   She referred me for physio and prescription for vagifem. That was 8 weeks post op. Oh asked GP about hrt same time as not slept a full night since op. Put on premarin .625. Carried on trying to live with it. Saw physio,  doing pelvic floor exercises made my problem worse.  Eventually went back to GP July,  said I couldn't live with it and asked for a referral back to gynae. He then thought I shouldn't be on oestrogen only hrt because of endometriosis,  so put me on elleste duet conti.  Saw a consultant I hadn't seen before,  who said all seemed ok, and to go back and jump around at the gym. He wouldn't refer to urology as I wasn't incontinent.  So I gave in and booked  a private appointment to see my surgeon who I saw in October.  She confirmed I have possible moderate anterior and posterior prolapse.  Possible adhesion and possibly more endometriosis.  Put me back on the waiting list for surgery.  At about the same time,  my GP put me on kliovance, reasons I cannot remember now. Had all but constant headache since, tinnitus,  burning feeling side of head.  GP now thinks its silent reflux,  so put me on lansoprazole for stomach acid. I asked to come off hrt,  she said to to alternate days. That was 2 weeks ago. Think I'm going crazy.  Thinking of having private hormone blood test done.  Just had lots of other blood tests done at docs, all normal apparently!  What's normal?  Lol. Oh dear!  Got appointment at menopause clinic March 13th. Not got surgery appointment yet! Any ideas would be fabulous/amazing/miraculous!  X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: groundhog on January 23, 2017, 10:12:00 PM
Hi ladies,
Many of you know my story and I don't want to depress or worry anyone about to have surgery as what happened to me is very rare.
I had TAH/BSO 2 years ago aged 55 - my bowel perforated.  I had had my last period some 5 years prior to the hysterecomy so o was told I would not miss my ovaries.  It's hard to say what is causing what with me because of the catastrophic bowel issue and continual problems since.  I do feel I am missing my ovaries with crushing depression, anxiety and loss of confidence.  I had the surgery for a suspect mass which thankfully was benign,  I'd had severe endometriosis for many years and was most upset to discover hysterecomy and oopherectomy is no cure for endometriosis.
Anyway that's my story,  I wish we could tell definitiely if the low mood is depression or hormone based.  I'm on anti depressants which do little but lots of problems in my life.
Good thread xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 10:26:20 PM
Doolou, welcome! I'm so glad you've joined us, and what an ordeal you've had! I am BEYOND angry that you were told to go and jump around a gym when you clearly had symptoms of prolapse! AND that you were forced to follow this up privately >:(

I hope you get your surgery appointment through soon!

So you're taking HRT every other day at present? This will indeed drive you bonkers! Your levels will be up and down - it's crazy that any GP would think this is a good idea for any lady in surgical menopause......But I'm not surprised, sadly. :'(

Have you ever tried transdermals such as Estrogel or patches such as Estradot? You could switch straight over to these without having to put your body (and mind) through the trauma of stopping HRT completely. Nikki also has great success with Sandrena gel (more concentrated), and adding in Testosterone gel too. If you feel like giving transdermals a go instead of waiting until March for your appointment, I would seriously pop along to your GP and ask for a change just now. These of course also don't go via your stomach, so I bet a penny to a pound that your 'silent reflux' if indeed it is this will clear up somewhat if not completely (and then you won't need to take lansoprazole)! Reflux can also be a sign of low estrogen, so you are on to a fairly good bet going down this route......

If we can offer any more help, please just shout! xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 10:36:43 PM
Welcome, Groundhog!

I'm so very glad you've joined us. :)

Are you taking any HRT at the moment, or is it contraindicated? The depression and anxiety is SEVERELY underestimated in surgical menopause, for sure!  With so many other issues  Groundhog, you really are remarkable how you endure (i've been following your story). How are things just now with your bowel issues? I'm hoping that this thread will prove to be a good support for all of us, and extra support for you too aside from your  own thread. Please visit us often! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: groundhog on January 23, 2017, 10:52:53 PM
Thanks Tempest.
I'm just on vagifem .  I can't have intimacy since my botched op so have no idea if they are working but I was getting UTIs which seem better so hopefully doing something.   Il be honest I feel  mutilated as a woman and I don't think they would remove a man's testicles so readily and then just abandon them!  Yes I do feel angry,  I did actually contact my gynae who did the hysterectomy and ask him if I could speak to a Menopause expert.  I want to know if there is a way of telling If my symptoms are depression brought on by the botched op and consequences thereof,  or am I totally deficient in hormones.  He hasn't replied yet.
My bowel problems remain and I'm awaiting corrective surgery ( I don't want to hog this thread with my bowel problems xx)
Thanks again, very interesting to read other ladies experiences x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 23, 2017, 11:37:20 PM
ABSOLUTELY, Groundhog! There is no way men would tolerate this type of treatment (or lack of)! You are absolutely entitled to that follow up - especially so with your bowel complications which makes your situation more complex. It clearly states so in the NICE guidelines so if your Gynaecologist doesn't reply, your GP most certainly can and should make a referral! It would really help you to sort through which issues are which - and if there are treatment options that could make your quality of life better.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I am NOT giving up on all this trying to receive treatment and if I can, bring awareness about women in surgical menopause and lack of aftercare is because my Mum had a radical hysterectomy for cancer when she was 42. Mum literally changed overnight - I was 8 at the time so couldn't understand what she was going through at that age. The subsequent follow up radiotherapy damaged her bowel very badly - they just used to absolutely blitz the whole pelvic area back then. As I grew older, I understood more and helped to care for her so I know a little of the issues you must be facing too.

One of the things I remember most when I got older was Mum saying to me 'im not crazy you know. They say all of this is in my head, but I'm NOT CRAZY'. Its only now that I know what she meant by that - that 'they' think you're crazy when you suffer from unrelenting anxiety and depression (which she did), when in fact it is caused by a dramatic and sudden drop in hormone levels. So nothing much has changed in almost 40 years.......Which, when you think of all the medical advances etc. we have made is nothing short of a disgrace and a travesty. It's in memory of her, and of course due to my own difficulties that I will never give up.

The more we speak about this and the more we share our stories, the more informed women will become and the more the medical profession won't be able to fob us off and leave us to 'get on with it' after such life changing surgery.......At least, this is my sincere hope.

Sorry for rambling on a bit there..........xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on January 23, 2017, 11:43:14 PM
I had a TAH and BSO end of Sept 2016 following a scan for unexplained bleeding - turned out to have a very early stage endometrial cancer and ovarian cancer which was detected in other ovary and on omenetum at biopsy. Currently receving chemo to " mop up" any errant microscopic cancer cells. I also ended up with a temporary ilieostomy as tumour on right ovary had stuck to bowel and couldn't be safely removed without excising large part of sigmoid colon.
I was told by gynae registrar at initial consultation that I'd be in immediate menopause post operative,y and that I couldn't have HRT - neither primary turned out to be ones that are hormonally driven so his remark seems rather premature - I haven't had any follow up by the gynae team, have had no post operative checks apart from a cursory tummy feel by the oncologist and my post operative 6 week bowel follow up is taking place on March 28th , approx 6 months later !
To be fair, I have felt a lot better post operatively - before hand I had experienced about 6 months of terrible anxiety and mood swings along with irregular periods and pelvic pain from my endometriosis and post operatively these seem to have settled down. I get odd moments of panic and anxiety but given I have a cancer diagnosis hanging over me, some of it I blame on that and certainly the intense hormonal shifts that left me feeling suicidal have abated. I get hot flushes throughout the day and occasionally on waking but they are no worse than before my operation. I have zero sex drive but this is nothing new as a lifetime of endometriosis and pain on intercourse have that effect I find.
I'm hoping that things continue as they are as I seem to be less emotionally volatile than I was when I was still having periods and going through peri. If things change , I am not sure I would be offered anything and whether if I were, if I'd be happy to take anything as I think that my body has already made two cancers so why not a third ?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: groundhog on January 23, 2017, 11:48:26 PM
That rings a sad bell with me too Tempest.  My nephews are 8 and they are like my children - I know I'm not the same and one of them said to me last weekend,  'Aunty when you are better,  will you dance again like you used to '.  That made me so sad,  I used to be a funny happy aunty always doing little dances and making their lives a bit happier,  when my op went wrong and / or my ovaries were yanked out,  a part of me died.  Sorry about your mum Tempest and thank you for your understanding xx

I told my nephew I promise when I'm well we will dance and dance and dance xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 24, 2017, 09:44:12 AM
Oh, Groundhog! I wish so very much for some better health and happier days ahead for you. Your dear nephews! And you.......what a lovely, brave lady you are (and YES - you are brave)! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 24, 2017, 12:09:45 PM
Thank you for joining us, Coldethyl! I have been following your updates - you're a remarkable lady!


 Yes, I noticed the mood swings abated for me too post surgery (only to come back on unstable HRT - grrrr)! I did have depressed mood over time though without HRT - I often wonder if for me, vaginal estrogen and an antidepressant would have been a better bet as I had no hot flushes (but having said that, I could not tolerate the SSRI's my GP prescribed - I've since learned that antidepressants from the SNRI class seem to be more agreeable in post menopausal ladies).

I remember my Mum having the temporary ileostomy too - thank goodness stoma care has come along a good way since then!

Can you cope with the hot flushes you are experiencing at the moment? Venlafaxine which is an SNRI is used successfully at the Menopause clinic I attend for ladies who cannot take HRT, and it can certainly help with the feelings of anxiety - it's a bona fide 'alternative treatment' for menopausal symptoms which is very often overlooked, especially sometimes in the forum which is a great shame as all options should be 'on the table' for us to consider/try as each of our preferences and circumstances are different.

Sending you biggest hugs. xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on January 24, 2017, 02:14:37 PM
Thank you for joining us, Coldethyl! I have been following your updates - you're a remarkable lady!


 Yes, I noticed the mood swings abated for me too post surgery (only to come back on unstable HRT - grrrr)! I did have depressed mood over time though without HRT - I often wonder if for me, vaginal estrogen and an antidepressant would have been a better bet as I had no hot flushes (but having said that, I could not tolerate the SSRI's my GP prescribed - I've since learned that antidepressants from the SNRI class seem to be more agreeable in post menopausal ladies).

I remember my Mum having the temporary ileostomy too - thank goodness stoma care has come along a good way since then!

Can you cope with the hot flushes you are experiencing at the moment? Venlafaxine which is an SNRI is used successfully at the Menopause clinic I attend for ladies who cannot take HRT, and it can certainly help with the feelings of anxiety - it's a bona fide 'alternative treatment' for menopausal symptoms which is very often overlooked, especially sometimes in the forum which is a great shame as all options should be 'on the table' for us to consider/try as each of our preferences and circumstances are different.

Sending you biggest hugs. xxxxx

I can cope with them so far-I take a low dose betablocker which helps with the adrenaline surges and ectopic heartbeats that the flushes sometimes cause so fingers crossed that will be enough.
The ileosotomy isn't that bad tbh- it isn't the nicest looking thing but I am considering not rushing into reversal as several friends with bowel cancer have found it tricky post reversal and I feel I have enough on my plate letting my body heal from chemo - I also want to be able to enjoy whatever time I have as no guarantees post chemo that it won't return at some point and being tied to the toilet isn't my idea of fun!!
I think that often what is required at this time of life is to be taken seriously and heard by those involved in our healthcare- in the hospital , post surgery , when I was barely functioning after the anaesthetic, the consultant doing the rounds that day got really snotty with me when I said I didn't want to discuss anything until biopsies in at clinic appointment as I wasn't mentally up to it yet having had a breakdown earlier in the year- he sneered at me and said " you aren't unique in that, you know." True but if I had had the strength I might have punched him in his smug features!!! I've always thought that men become gynaecologists because they hate women and this reaffirmed my bias. The bowel surgeon was a hoot and very compassionate about the bag- my own consultant never acknowledged it or the hideous scar he'd made-  obviously I am grateful that he contributed to saving my life but just a kind word or an acknowledgement that hysterectomy and ileostomy were big deals wouldn't go amiss.
Some women sail through life without any hormonal challenges but that is often as much down to luck ( genetics) as anything they have done, yet I have always bee made to feel by gynae team and GPs( mostly female!) that with a bit more effort on my part, all would fall into place. Some days pre-operation I was running just to stand still so would like to see this acknowledged by our HCPs before it's all blamed on our mental health and weakness!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on January 25, 2017, 06:29:54 PM
Hi Tempest and thank you so much for your kind and informative reply.   I am getting armed with information for my menopause clinic appointment,  which after one phone call asking for any cancellations,  is now 13th February.  It feels like it's going to be a long 3 weeks.  I have also  been considering having a private hormone blood test done.  My initial thoughts is that again some information I could take to the clinic,  giving a basic overview?  Your opinions on that whether it is worth bothering with would be appreciated.  I'm 8 days into 30mg lansoprazole and not much change tbh. Tinnitus is driving me nuts,  headache etc. My dilemma is, do I do what I was thinking and stop my HRT and look to start from scratch?  Stay as I am on alternate days, or go back to every day?  I hate going to to GP's. Feel like a nuisance/fraud and find it very stressful.  My BP is up a bit too, but will be sky high if I go to doctors. Sadly I don't have a lot of faith in GP's unless you've got a cough/cold? 

And to all the other ladies on here,  my situation seems pathetic by comparison.  Sending my hugs to you all and if only there was a better system in place to help the majority of women who suffer whilst going through thr menopause,  surgically or naturally x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on January 26, 2017, 01:46:02 PM
Just to brighten up our dull days, I have just attempted to watch a bug move across the carpet for a good few minutes, on closer inspection it was a piece of plastic not able to move at all!!!!

Day 89 post op and taking Tibolone /Livial, balance, dizziness obviously not improving at all!!

Hoping for miracles at GP appointment on Friday X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 26, 2017, 01:56:13 PM
Oh, I've done this Mer!!!!!!  ;) It's usually my Hubby's sock fluff....... ;D

I'm so sorry you're still feeling truly rotten - roll on Friday!!! As Hurdity said, maybe the Tibolone isn't suiting OR I'm thinking because it's weakly estrogenic and you weren't in menopause before your surgery, it could be that you need a decent dose of estrogen to make you feel better! Incidentally, it is possible to go up to 5mg on the Tibolone, but I would probably try a patch to be honest just in case it's really not suiting you!

Estradot has good stickability (better than the other patches) and it's small. I can pass on some tips about sticking if you're given these (I just couldn't absorb them - I have problems with transdermals). Or you could ask for Estrogel, which you apply ideally to inner thighs, starting at 2 pumps in your case. Sadly, you often have to TELL the GP's what you want to try because a good many of them aren't clued up on HRT.

We're here for you - so if you have any questions, give us a shout! xxxxx

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on January 26, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
Hello everyone
Great idea Tempest, I was thinking a thread for surgical menopause would be useful!!

I had TAH with BSO on 6th Dec 2016 aged 44 due to severe PMS. My first appointment at the hospital in April 2016 I was given Zoladex to bring on the menopause, to make sure it would help & it did, I was a new woman. In Sept consultant gave go ahead for op. Lost most of my friends to PMS, moved house, fab new GP who made this happen, now on my own with a fantastic & very supportive hubby & my sister who has been great.
In hospital for 2 nights, went home with severe iron deficiency, being sick & barely eating or drinking. Had to have doctor out who gave me anti-sickness tablets, still taking iron tablets as I can only take one a day not three. Week after surgery night sweats started leaving me & bedding completely saturated, they stopped after 2 weeks, now just suffer with intense hot flushes which are frequent day & night.
GP insisted on HRT as I'm high risk for osteoporosis, started on Estradiol patches 25mg, too early to know if they are working yet.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 26, 2017, 08:12:49 PM
Welcome, Yorkshire Girl!

You and Mer109 are very close in timing with your surgeries - hopefully you'll be able to hook up and share your journeys of recovery and progress with HRT.

I'm so glad the night sweats have settled for you - that's very encouraging! And I'm so sorry you've had the complications with iron deficiency - is the GP monitoring you carefully post op. for this now?

I'm wondering if you've come across the blog Miss Jekyll and Hyde? It's a very encouraging story of a lady who had TAH/BSO for PMDD and came out the other side successfully with HRT. I'll see if I can find a link......

There is no doubt about it that severe PMS and PMDD are DEVASTATING to women, and Professor Studd pioneered much research into treating women who suffer from these. He has written a great deal about this in various professional journals and on his own website, so that's well worth checking out too.

His usual 'add back' regime is 3 pumps of Estrogel with Testim testosterone gel, and this seems to work very well for a lot of ladies. You're entitled to receive replacement Testosterone therapy, so be sure that you're getting the right follow up at a menopause clinic as GP's aren't always as clued up as they should be about this despite it being clearly stated that it should be made available in the NICE guidelines for us women (Mer - this includes you too).

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 26, 2017, 08:14:26 PM
https://msjekyllhyde.wordpress.com Here is the link to the blog,Yorkshire Girl. It's encouraging reading! :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on January 27, 2017, 05:22:08 PM
Hi Tempest
Funnily enough I read Professor Studd's research before I visited GP second time round so I had something to back up my wanting a hysterectomy. At the same time I did read Miss Jekyll and Hyde blog, it helped a lot :)
No not having any monitoring for the iron deficiency. As far as I'm aware I won't be referred to a menopause clinic, didn't realise they existed until I read this forum!
Don't know anything about testosterone therapy.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 27, 2017, 09:51:56 PM
I'm so glad you managed to tap into those resources before your surgery Yorkshire Girl!

Here is the Menopause Matters information on Testosterone therapy, and why it's useful for us post oopherectomy:

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/testosterone.php

If you have any questions having read this, please ask - also regarding a referral to a menopause clinic. I'll just do a wee check to see what's available (assuming you're in Yorkshire - which I guess you must be)!  ;)

Ah - here we go! These are the menopause clinic's located nearest to York: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/clinicsearchresults.php?region=northern
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 28, 2017, 11:48:59 AM
Just a shout out to Mer  - how did you get on at the appointment  with your GP? Hope you received some good support! xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on January 28, 2017, 03:52:18 PM
Hi Tempest
Thanks for all that I will have a read, I expect I will have questions as to be fair I'm a bit confused by everything to do with menopause & hrt!! Yes I'm in Yorkshire, in the East Riding!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on January 29, 2017, 03:57:59 PM
Hello everyone
Great idea Tempest, I was thinking a thread for surgical menopause would be useful!!

I had TAH with BSO on 6th Dec 2016 aged 44 due to severe PMS. My first appointment at the hospital in April 2016 I was given Zoladex to bring on the menopause, to make sure it would help & it did, I was a new woman. In Sept consultant gave go ahead for op. Lost most of my friends to PMS, moved house, fab new GP who made this happen, now on my own with a fantastic & very supportive hubby & my sister who has been great.
In hospital for 2 nights, went home with severe iron deficiency, being sick & barely eating or drinking. Had to have doctor out who gave me anti-sickness tablets, still taking iron tablets as I can only take one a day not three. Week after surgery night sweats started leaving me & bedding completely saturated, they stopped after 2 weeks, now just suffer with intense hot flushes which are frequent day & night.
GP insisted on HRT as I'm high risk for osteoporosis, started on Estradiol patches 25mg, too early to know if they are working yet.

Hi Yorkshire Girl - I might have spoken to you on another thread but 25 mcg is a very low dose so you should be eventually aiming for at least 50 mcg - I presume you are starting low because you are sensitive to small changes?

Also re the iron. I have never taken tableta! I became anaemic in first pregnancy and was prescribed some but didn't like the idea and used Floradix herbal iron tonic which is more natural and very gentle on the digestion! As I am still having bleeds in my  60's ( through choice) I still do take the odd spoonful once a week or so just to top up in case I get low (though probably don't need to!). I highly recommend this rather than iron tabs :)

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on January 29, 2017, 04:58:45 PM
Hello Hurdity
Yes you have. I have no idea why GP started me on 25mg, my problem is I have no clue about hrt, struggling with it all if I'm honest!
The hospital gave me the iron tablets expecting me to 3 a day for a month but on advice from GP (after sickness) am taking one a day & don't have any problems, still have another months worth with no idea how my iron levels are.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on January 29, 2017, 09:44:42 PM
Hi, Yorkshire Girl.

If you've been persevering on the 25's and it's just not working to give you relief, it's perfectly fine to go back to the GP and ask for a dose increase now. Estradot patches are good because they are very small and stick well for most ladies - they are changed twice a week. The other good thing about these is that there is a dose inbetween 25 and 50 - 37.5 which means you can increase gradually to minimise side effects. Remember, if you have any questions we're more than happy to help! xxxx

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on January 31, 2017, 06:07:56 PM
Hi All

An update, visited the GP Friday expecting miracles as this was the GP I was told to see by another practice GP when I asked as per NICE guidelines who was completing my 12 week review of Tibolone (healthcare professional with expertise of menopause) and could I be referred to menopause clinic perhaps

She had not heard of anyone suffering from a hormone crash and I don't really think she took my symptoms and tale of the 'episode' seriously. I began to wonder if she believed I had actually had the op at all, this was not helped by the fact that the surgeon has not liaised with the GP surgery yet! She actually asked to see my wound lol

As for my symptoms she dimissed the balance/ dizziness saying this was not a side effect of Tibolone as far as she was aware, this prompted me to bring the leaflet accompanying the tablets from my bag, with dizziness/vision etc etc highlighted. She actually stated to me that I had had a major op and shouldn't expect to feel the same again!!! I told her I just want to be able to function and leave the house

Needless to say I felt appointment did not go well, she told me to stop taking Tibolone and meds given to treat dizziness and go back in a fortnight if I felt I would like to try something else she was not prepared to prescribe something at this stage.

I haven't plucked up the courage to to cold turkey yet!








Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on January 31, 2017, 07:26:18 PM
Hello Mer
Omg I've been left speechless reading your post!! Just unbelievable, I wish you had a more helpful GP, maybe it's time to find a menopause clinic to help you. Sorry can't be much more help, but I really do hope you get more helpful help soon, good luck & keep us posted xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joesmum on January 31, 2017, 08:07:30 PM
Hi,
I had my surgical menopause 7 years ago at the age of 45years.   All done  laporascopically by a brilliant surgeon. I was sore afterwards but didn't even need to take a paracetamol! 6 weeks later I was fully up and running again.
2 weeks after my operation I was put on estrogen implants which were wonderful. I had them for 5 years. No problems. Not a sausage!

 I never even thought about the menopause because I had no symptoms. None!! Bliss!

I'm now on EVOREL patches 50mcgs which is a very different story. I've tried higher doses but they make me feel awful. Very jittery and angry with fibrocystic breasts. The 50mcg dose doesn't make me feel great at all.

I think I'm extremely sensitive to hormone increases and high levels. My body just seems to tolerate a low dose and no more. Even if I'm craving a slightly higher dose.

I still get hot flushes but I can't tell if that's estrogen or thyroid related.

I felt completely well on the implants. I struggle to feel well on the EVOREL patches. I tried Estrogel but didn't really get along with that.
I'm under the care of an endocrinologist.
I also have secondary hypothyroidism and take levothyroxine and T3.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on January 31, 2017, 09:05:38 PM
Thank you Yorkshire Girl

That previous post was written Friday but sat on my iPad as it hadn't sent, my error

Well Saturday I felt horrendous and thought it can't get any worse so cold turkey I went...... I needed to rule out Tibolone wasn't the culprit as I believed it couldn't be due to be taking it since op and feeling fab for five weeks post op before episode.

Day four today, I actually feel that my head is beginning to feel like it belongs to me again, dizziness is still here but in the background, can look around without feeling like I am going to faint, the heaviness is going, however replaced by the most horrendous flushes/ night sweats that I did not get on Tibolone. Hips are soooo sore that mobility is a struggle ( where did that come from!!!)and on waking my fingers won't bend but get better as the day goes on.

Down there lol feel slightly weird? Not stinging but weird, that is new?

But hallelujah I left the house today, first time since 4th Jan and walked around the block, it nearly killed me as my hips and thigh/ calf muscles are really sore, I feel like I am 100 years old, not 49 but small steps as they say x



Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on January 31, 2017, 09:09:06 PM
And yes, I really need to find a menopause clinic and quick X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 01, 2017, 08:17:09 PM
Hi, ladies!

Just catching up here! Mer, that's pretty atrocious of your GP I have to say! Have you used the tab at the head of the forum to search for menopause clinic's near you? Look under the tab 'specialists'. I'm glad that you're feeling a bit better after stopping Tibolone - do keep us posted, won't you? If you need any support or help then we're here for you!!

Yorkshire Girl - have you managed to book to see your GP yet? It's definitely worth it as you are still suffering with flushes! Keep pushing - you need proper treatment especially to help preserve your bone health!

And welcome to our 'corner', Joesmum! It's good to see you here. :) I'm extremely sensitive to increases and high levels of estrogen too - hence why I'm now trying Tibolone but it's very early days yet. I'll keep you posted but I'm hoping upon hope it doesn't go the way of the other HRT's I've tried....... :o

Sending hugs to you all - please keep in touch! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 01, 2017, 08:27:36 PM
Oh, and Mer - you mention your symptoms 'down below'. It's a must to speak to your GP about a good vaginal lubricant such as Sylk, and vaginal estrogen such as Ovestin or Vagifem as you don't want vaginal atrophy to take a hold! If they are unable/unwilling to help then explain that your estrogen levels which were pre-menopause pre surgery have plummeted, and you need suitable replacement - it is your right to receive this and if they cannot assist you, then insist that they must refer you at least to a gynaecologist who can help with hormone replacement.

If you run into problems, please consider changing your GP or contacting PALS again - it's really not acceptable to not receive help with hormone replacement after this surgery! There is also always NHS complaints - my Hubby and I had to resort to this route in order to get a referral to a menopause consultant. If I can advise you further, please just ask or drop me a PM if you're more comfortable with that. xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on February 01, 2017, 09:08:42 PM
Hello ladies,  hope you're all coping with today's challenges.  I thought I would update you on my situation.  I decided to stop my hrt which was kliovance 1mg/50mcg after nearly 3 weeks on alternate days. This was for me to see if the headaches/ear/sinus pain/tinnitus could be a side effect. It's been a week since I took my last one and unfortunately the symptoms are ongoing if not worse,  despite taking lansoprazole. Went back to GP yesterday who's referred me to ENT and given me a steroid nasal spray.  I read somewhere on here although I can't find it now,  about tinnitus being due to lack of oestrogen?  Having a few hot flushes and night sweats,  but can cope with them, well so far.  Menopause clinic appointment is 12 days away, and now looking for information to take with me to that appointment.  Still no surgery appointment as yet,  but carrying on with vagifem and and scared about next surgery anyway,  so hey ho!  This site is a breath of fresh air! Thank you :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mer109 on February 05, 2017, 04:02:33 PM
Hi All

After stopping Tibolone cold turkey and feeling that symtoms in regards to balance/dizziness were slowly improving .......I was wrong 😪 I bent down to pick something up and bingo, balance went - everything spun for a couple of seconds and now dizziness seems to be back in the background and balance issue has happened a few times, no where near as bad however.

I eventually got to see the consultant who completed the op and prescribed Tibolone, again, discussed the issue of what i referred to as a hormone crash, which initiated the balance/dizziness and again he stated that he was not aware of hormones crashes, he believes what happened is related to an ear problem and has referred me to a colleague (this appointment hopefully may come through quicker than my June appointment at dizzy clinic)

Anyway, he changed HRT fromTibolone to Premerin 0.625 stating that this is the most basic and oldest HRT which may suit better, he stated that all ladies my age or younger having a TAH/BSO should be on some form of HRT.

Wish me luck as starting tonight.....dizziness being a reported side effect.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 05, 2017, 06:37:22 PM
Hi Joe's mum!
I'm also BSO TVH and Hypothyroid.. currently taking 3 grains Nature throid and 25mg patch once weekly which is the most I can tolerate

I'm waiting to get go ahead for Tibolone.. although that is taking forever!

hope I can report good things once I'm on it

xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joesmum on February 05, 2017, 11:27:06 PM
Hello all,
I posted recently saying that I cut my 100 patches in half when I ran out of 50 mcg patches and my estradiol levels plummeted to 90 pmol. My endocrinologist told me off but I had run out of the correct patches!
Well since then I switched back to a proper 50 mcg patch and am going to get my blood levels checked this week to see if they are any higher. I'll keep you posted on that one.
I'm feeling really strange at the moment. Depressed with very negative thoughts or crying all the time.
It's a very profound feeling and awful. I also feel ever so slightly anxious but it's very much in the background and not interfering. The depression is the hardest thing to deal with.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 07, 2017, 12:40:54 PM
Joe's I'm I've been there totally relate, its. It depression it's your hormones going bonkers!
I quit my job and felt so bad I wanted to top myself before Xmas, once I'd dropped the patch right down to 25 (once a week) I felt better

You could try dropping e dose to where you feel right, that's the real point of it all isn't it?

Hope your ok
Abby xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 07, 2017, 05:11:46 PM
Bless your heart, Joesmum!

I had a period like this that lasted from October last year to pretty much about now. I wonder what it's all about? Could it be seasonal partly? Or a further progress of our post menopausal state? Due to a shift in our HRT or our hormonal  needs? It's all so bewildering and rather frightening, isn't it? Please check in with us to let us know how you're doing, and so that we can offer you words of support at least. Also let us know what the blood test reveals - I hope this may shed some light on things. Take care, and biggest hugs. xxxx

Abby, is the 25mcg weekly taking care of the more obvious symptoms such as flushes etc. for you? It's interesting, isn't it? I don't do well at all on high doses either as you know! I think you're also using the same dose weekly as Cubagirl - she has had problems in the past too with anything higher. How is your mood and energy levels at the moment? xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on February 07, 2017, 06:04:50 PM
Hi Joes mum, Im BSO and on 75ug patch, just had my bloods done last week and only 115 Pmol/l of oestrogen. I feel OK on this level though, just a blip at Xmas where it felt as though my oestrogen level had dropped, this went on for about a month, I had a couple of virus infections and I think they seem to zap your oestrogen, esp when we no longer produce our own. I have very slowly gone back to normal (whatever that is these days), i.e. no weakness, feeling faint, bad anxiety etc.
I have not had my levels checked before this though (apart from 2 weeks post BSO when level was zero, surprise surprise), so nothing to compare to. I am quite pleased as I thought they would be sky high on 75ug and this level is more in keeping with post meno levels. Just goes to show that transdermal absorption does vary widely with different individuals.

Rhiner
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: donnacrichton on February 07, 2017, 07:35:50 PM
Hi I won't bore you with a full history but I am trying to fight to get ovaries removed. My issue has been huge fluctuations from age 38 and diagnosed peri then. I have had my system shut down with zoladex which worked but my own system still popped in & out that lasted a year. The last year I have been taking buserelin nasal spray to shut down estrogen and having similar problems can feel fine then own estrogen still pops in. I would love if anyone has had similar problems and managed to get ovary removal x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 07, 2017, 08:16:53 PM
Marie, I've given up - taken the patch off..

I was ok for a few weeks, then got the whole huge boobs, hot flushes at night and feeling weepy stuff

I want to try Tibolone and that is that.. I just keep getting fobbed off told to go to hospital (8-12 week waiting list) etc

I'm going to tie myself to the surgery door on friday and beg!

xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 07, 2017, 08:31:07 PM
Oh, Abby! I'm sorry, hun! :'(

I understand COMPLETELY. I've been there, felt awful too! So don't you get these symptoms when you're on nothing at all? I'm going through a few very dicey days on Tibolone right now and Hubby is wanting to take me to GP tomorrow as HE is not happy! My mood has been ok, but the crippling anxiety is back along with the shakes and almost zero sleep. My thyroid numbers were off last time - I discussed it with Joesmum so I'm going to insist on a re-test.

I understand that Tibolone can have a rocky start and I've been reading other ladie's experiences and mine are similar, but we've been at this too long haven't we? I think Hubby just wants to make sure everything that should be checked is being checked, and that I'm not heading downwards again.

I think though that you personally may very well be fine on it, so please don't be discouraged by my present situation - I could very well have other things going on.

Keep in touch, won't you? Remember - I'll be there in spirit with you, cheering you on when you go to your appointment! Hugs! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 07, 2017, 08:37:20 PM
So Tibolone hasn't worked for you???

I really want it to work - it sounds like the magic bullet...
I will give up HRT after this if I can't get sorted on Tibolone

I'm so sorry you are going through this

So hard.. will be thinking of you xxx

Hugs
Abby xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 07, 2017, 09:08:31 PM
So far, it's been very up and down Abby! I think I may have other issues going on though. Like you, if this doesn't work out then I'm at a loss and I'm going to give up. It's not as straightforward as the majority of ladies just supplementing declining hormones for us, is it? That's why I started this thread. Our needs and problems are undoubtedly different!

Thank you so much for the hugs - sending the very same right back to you too. xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joesmum on February 08, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
Hi all again,

BLOOD TEST TESULTS ON 50mcg PATCH - 280 pmol.

Well that's certainly higher than it was! I'm really surprised.
Just to remind you all I'd been halving a 100mcgs patch because I'd run out of 50's and my estrogen levels plummeted to 90pmols! At which point my endocrinologist told me off.

Now I've only been on the new patches for a couple of weeks so it might be that the estrodial is still peaking and won't settle for another couple of weeks? OR
When my thyroid is running a bit low I metabolism my patches much more slowly and end up with higher blood levels as I use them up more slowly?
 
Whatever it is I'm much happier to see that level.

My biggest concern is bone health. I don't really know what levels we need to preserve good bone health but I've always guessed around 300pmols? Plus I'm 52 so really relatively young..ish!!

HI RHINER - I'm quite surprised that your levels are only that high on 75 mcgs. Maybe you do absorb it well and metabolise it well? We are all soooo different!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 09, 2017, 08:16:30 PM
That's good news, Joesmum!

I've no idea what level we need, and I personally won't be able to monitor blood levels as I'm on Tibolone. Are you feeling a little better in yourself now? xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Anjia on February 11, 2017, 03:59:18 PM
I have Tibelone on my bedside table ready to start but keep putting it of because of side affects.At the moment I feel dreadful I dont no if my estrogen is to high or to low I have swapped from patch back to tablet Im having night sweats adrenaline surges anxiety just awful this has been going on for 4 years ok for a few months then back to square one.I feel so stupid with myself that I dont no whats happening to my own body theres no meno clinic near me so no help .
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 11, 2017, 04:36:51 PM
Anja, I've got mine on my bedside ready to start tonight!
Let's do this together and then we can support one another. I've not been too bad recently, but would like to get my energy and mojo back - and my hair

I've heard/read really good things about this HRT especially if you've had BSO and Hysterectomy... So fingers x'd. I'm going to take mine tonight and will post tomorrow or Monday about how it's going. .

Abby x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on February 11, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
I have Tibelone on my bedside table ready to start but keep putting it of because of side affects.At the moment I feel dreadful I dont no if my estrogen is to high or to low I have swapped from patch back to tablet Im having night sweats adrenaline surges anxiety just awful this has been going on for 4 years ok for a few months then back to square one.I feel so stupid with myself that I dont no whats happening to my own body theres no meno clinic near me so no help .

I cannot tolerate oestrogen only hrt
It seems to sort my night sweats but gives me horrible surges, the lower the oestrogen dose the better I am

Give it a go, you've nothing to lose but loads to potentially gain
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Anjia on February 11, 2017, 08:54:00 PM
Hi Abby ok lets give it a go lets hope we get some good results !!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 11, 2017, 09:04:02 PM
ANja, I've taken my first tablet tonight!
Felt a bit woozy, but nothing too terrible

I think it's worth a shot?

I'll be right here with you! - and so will all the other lovely women here

Abby xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 09:39:26 AM
Mer, if you're reading I'm just wondering how you're doing on the Premarin? Hope you're ok! Hugs! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 13, 2017, 04:56:42 PM
Hi all again,

BLOOD TEST TESULTS ON 50mcg PATCH - 280 pmol.

Well that's certainly higher than it was! I'm really surprised.
Just to remind you all I'd been halving a 100mcgs patch because I'd run out of 50's and my estrogen levels plummeted to 90pmols! At which point my endocrinologist told me off.

Now I've only been on the new patches for a couple of weeks so it might be that the estrodial is still peaking and won't settle for another couple of weeks? OR
When my thyroid is running a bit low I metabolism my patches much more slowly and end up with higher blood levels as I use them up more slowly?
 
Whatever it is I'm much happier to see that level.

My biggest concern is bone health. I don't really know what levels we need to preserve good bone health but I've always guessed around 300pmols? Plus I'm 52 so really relatively young..ish!!

HI RHINER - I'm quite surprised that your levels are only that high on 75 mcgs. Maybe you do absorb it well and metabolise it well? We are all soooo different!

Hi Joesmum

A while ago I did read a paper about bone health and absolute oestrogen levels  - I don't think they were anywhere near as high as 300 pmol/l - that is quite a high level of post-menopause - I don't think mine have ever been that high.

Also the extent to which oestrogen provides bone protection is dose dependent - so protection is increased the higher the dose of oestrogen up to a certain level. The tablet/patch doses that are licensed for protection against osteoporosis  are marked with an asterisk on this site under HRT preparations so for patches the dose is 50 mcg, and tablets of estradiol usually 1 mg. However of course women vary enormously in how much they absorb from the different HRT types so these doses I presume errs on the side of caution - so allowing for the lower end of absorption (ie how much oestrogen women get from patches pills or gel) - though I'm not sure exactly how it was arrived at (ie the doses that confer maximum protection)?

You cannot judge your overall oestrogen levels from odd blood tests here and there but probably an average over a period of time if you are concerned? If you have a history of osteoporosis I think you can ask to be referred for a DEXA scan - and these should be available on NHS I think.

It sounds to me like 50 mcg patch is fine for you?

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Hi, Hurdity!

I just wanted to say that the criteria for being referred for a DEXA are quite 'tight' actually. Sadly, you cannot be usually considered unless you've had previous fracture (crazy, I know). I discussed this with my Consultant as I have had previous spinal surgery and we're still waiting to see if I'll be 'accepted' for a scan.

I know a certain Professor (gentleman) always offers the scan to his patients - it's a pity that the NHS can't offer this to BSO ladies, especially if their surgery was before the age of natural menopause but with things the way they are with cost cutting within the NHS, I can't see this being offered as standard any time soon. :o
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on February 13, 2017, 05:14:37 PM
Hi Tempest
I was wondering about DEXA scan, had o Google it as my GP will be sending me for one at some point. Didn't realise it wasn't easy to have this scan!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 05:20:21 PM
Sadly yes, Yorkshire Girl. The referrals are 'vetted' and have to fit the strict criteria, or scans are granted also in 'exceptional circumstances'. Your GP can certainly refer you though. xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Nikki180515 on February 13, 2017, 05:39:13 PM
That's interesting as I asked my GP out the DEXA scan and got a flat no!

Even after I mentioned about oestoarthiritis in our family.   Don't really want to have to have a fracture to get the scan.  ;D :-\

Nikki xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 13, 2017, 05:46:49 PM
Thanks Tempest - I have heard so many women talking about them, even women who haven't had fractures that I presumed it was quite straightforward. I'm not quite sure why lots of women seem to know they have osteopenia though? Maybe they've all had private scans and has led me to think this is routine? Do they not even offer them to  surgical menopausal women under menopause age if they are concerned?

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Menomale on February 13, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
Hi ladies,

Apparently you can get one if you're a smoker  ??? :o
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/DEXA-scan/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 05:57:48 PM
At my clinic, they ARE concerned that younger surgically menopausal ladies can't automatically access scans. It's all down to funding, of course. :'( I'm guessing a good number of the ladies who pass through MM and have been diagnosed with osteopenia probably have received their scans privately (as in Prof. Studd's patients - and we see a fair few of those) or are 'exceptional cases'.

I had lumbar spine surgery due to degenerative disc disease at quite a young age, so we're hoping I will 'fit' the criteria loosely under 'previous fracture', but to be honest it's a long shot....... :(

I'll certainly keep you posted if I am successful in getting an appointment.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 05:59:43 PM
Thank you Menomale! These are just the indications for a DEXA, not the actual criteria which you need to satisfy in order to qualify for one, sadly. :(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Menomale on February 13, 2017, 06:09:40 PM
Thanks sweetie, as an outlander I get confused with indications, criteria, recommendations.... ;D
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Menomale on February 13, 2017, 06:15:39 PM
This says... "why is it necessary" http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/DEXA-scan/Pages/Why-is-it-necessary.aspx
Why publish this if it is not the actual criteria to qualify for it?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Menomale on February 13, 2017, 06:46:12 PM
Yes Hasty, hence my confusion... apparently the paper accepts everything but reality is different.

I can't really comment on this as a foreigner, but it's interesting that my private insurance company have concluded after years refusing DEXA and other procedures on a frequent basis that they prevent further diseases/costs and allowing them is actually a good cost/benefit policy.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 13, 2017, 08:03:59 PM
Oh my goodness, Hasty! That's absolutely terrible!!! >:(  :'(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 13, 2017, 08:32:59 PM
I was given one no questions asked at Chelsea and westminster meno clinic!

seems its part of their normal protocol!!!

Nothing abnnormal as there was no follow up!

abby xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Loubylou48 on February 13, 2017, 08:46:54 PM
Hello, I'm new to the forums. I've just been put on the waiting list for a hysterectomy for fibroids which are causing prolonged and often heavy bleeding.

I've tried 2 Mirena coils which worked for a time (over a period of about 6 yrs) but my last one failed in May 2016 - I've been bleeding ever since, only relief I get is by taking Northisterone.

I had an endometrial ablation which  apparantly was pointless as they rarely work with fibroids last September - but now I have come to the end of the road and hysterectomy it is.

I'm 48 and have 2 teenage sons and a newish 3 year relationship with a great guy, we have a good sex life. I'm healthy and enjoy the gym and walking.  I have no history of much cancer in my family, all smears have been normal over the years. I'm having very few menopausal symptoms, I wake up in the night hot but not sweating, I suffer from insomnia occasionally but that's nothing new and I do feel more tired but I'm getting old!

My consultant wants me to think about removal of my ovaries and this is where my dilemma lies - the thought of going into immediate menopause is scarier than the actual operation itself. There is nothing wrong with either ovary. I think I would rather keep them and let nature take it's course and for the menopause to happen gradually.

People I know have varying opinions and reading around it, views are mixed. My other concern is the problems women are facing to receive the correct HRT when my ovaries can carry on supplying me with hormones.

I know ultimately it's my decision but I would value any opinions.

Thanks and sorry for the essay   ::)

 
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 14, 2017, 08:01:42 AM
hi Louby Lou. Gosh I was in exactly the same boat (minus the new relationship :))
My story could be yours: years of awful periods, getting more and more unwell - thryoid unbalanced too. Anaemic etc hair loss.

I too got to the 'end of the road' as it were last year - after having tried the whole shebang, norisitherone (yuck!) then Esmya (more yuck) then waiting for an ablation that was pointless and never happened (as fibroids made womb too wonky)

So... I plumped for the total hysterectomy and ovary removal. here's where our stories differ as my mum died from ovarian cancer (following a similar story with fibroids hysterectomy etc)...

Yes, it's been challenging and the hair loss did get worse after the op - last June..
It's getting easier and now I'm trying a different sort of HRT (Tibolone) I think there might be hope..

I would say, if there is no cancer history etc then keep your ovaries and let yourself slide into menopause gradually and take hormones if you need them. In retrospect i would have done this rather than go dramatically into surgical meno...

there are lots of very helpful people on this forum and you will get lots of support so feel free to post any questions..
I had vaginal surgery which does have a better recovery time, but i think I underestimated the emotional upheaval and then on top of that the hormone crash.. I didn't have much HRT after the op - as can't tolerate oestrogen only - and felt terrible!

Hope you can make the right decision for you..

Abby xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 14, 2017, 08:02:32 AM
Ps. post-op they found I had adeyonisis... which would definitely have had an impact on my health before hand so hysterectomy was always going to be an option for me

hope that all helps!

Abby
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Loubylou48 on February 14, 2017, 07:47:34 PM
Abby, thank you so much for your reply. I do think I'm leaning towards keeping my ovaries - it just makes more sense to me.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on February 15, 2017, 08:31:16 PM
Hi Tempest
Thanks for all that I will have a read, I expect I will have questions as to be fair I'm a bit confused by everything to do with menopause & hrt!! Yes I'm in Yorkshire, in the East Riding!
Hi Yorkshire girl.  I am also in the East Riding of Yorkshire.  I've just had an appointment with the menopause clinic in Hull. You will need to be referred though,  so maybe ask your GP or gynaecologist x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 16, 2017, 01:34:40 AM
A great thread tempest you are great at involving people!

 On hrt since 40 to help perimenopause prescribed by very understanding lady doctor) I was also prescribed venlafaxine 75mg whic was great as I was in a terrible state.

I had my womb out aged 46 for prolapse, already unbalanced hormones got even more unbalanced! Headaches depression etc. Went to prof studd prescribed 4doses estrogen plus testosterone which wasn't any better as I was already on 100mcg patch so finally tried option of switching off ovaries by injection as a trial to see if it would help the nausea and headaches. 

I found a bit of improvement and I was so desperate that I finally opted to have ovaries removed 2010 and just add estrogen.  Well it did help with nausea but I am now 55 and still struggling.  I had to stop estrogen 2014 due to estrogen positive breast cancer and am having to take estrgen blocker arimidex.  I am on venlafaxine 150mg and feel I need to up it as I still don't feel myself....some days worse than others tears, sweats, headaches low motivation fatigue etc.  I really am at my wits end as I cannot touch estrogen!

Sorry to go on but I just don't know what to do, why am I still getting these dreadful symptoms?  Surely I don't have much hormone if any to still be causing probs.

Thanks x

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: katebird on February 16, 2017, 07:20:36 AM
Hi all

Thank goodness for this website!! And this thread.

I had BSO and Fallopian tubes removed back in October. I have been on HRT since but the wrong kind...as I found out on Tuesday as I finally got to see an HRT specialist.

My symptoms are similar to yours! And I don't understand why none of us were hooked up with decent discussions about HRT BEFORE the op?! Surely that would make sense.

If any of you are in the Manchester area you can probably demand to be referred to Dr Seif at St Mary's. That's who I saw and he was very good. He's an HRT specialist and very sympathetic although there's bound to be a wait unless you kick off and say you want a cancellation appt.

Best of luck to us all

KB x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 16, 2017, 06:22:33 PM
Hi sweettooth

Sorry to hear you are still struggling. I remember when you first joined a few years ago.... The thing is the flushes are caused by reduction in oestrogen. Some women get them just during peri-menopause when hormone levels fluctuate wildly, but others continue to get them when oestrogen drops to a low level. Unfortunately it may well be that you are one of these.  it is not the hormones that cause the problems - but lack of them as you are finding. For women who cannot take HRT there are prescribable non-HRT preparations but they are not all proven to work for all women. Sounds like you are on a high dose of Ven... - not sure what the usual dose is?

Have you tried any of the others listed here if that one doesn't seem to work:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/prescribed.php

Also have you been tested for other conditions eg thyroid etc? There are other things that can help to reduce the impact of hot flushes - maintaining healthy BMI - if overweight, flushes are worse, taking plenty of exercise, reducing caffeine, alcohol and spicy foods . There are also behavioural techniques that can help women cope with flushes even though they do not reduce the incidence of them.

I am sorry I can't help any further but just wanted to sympathise with your plight...

 :bighug:

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on February 16, 2017, 08:48:36 PM
Hi everyone,  thought I'd give an update on my journey.  So, I went to the menopause clinic on Monday,  it was eventful to say the least!  After checking my obs, etc. my bp was a bit high probably due to taking my work boots off and on first for weight, and I was pretty anxious about the appointment anyway.  Went to see the specialist,  who after a quick resume on the last year gave me a patronising 15 minute lecture on smoking,  including stating that all of my symptoms are more than likely smoking related, and that it ages skin (as she gazed at my face).  When I asked her about testosterone regarding libido etc said it would turn me into a man, and that feeling sexy wasn't just down to hormones,  also that being paralised from a stroke isn't very sexy anyway!  I asked her had she ever smoked, and her reply was that she did at university,  but she is a cognitive adult, and stopped.  How my partner kept quiet,  I'll never know.  I understand she has to prescribe treatment based on my body/lifestyle etc. but didn't bother to ask about anything else.  Anyway.......she's given me estrogel 2 pumps a day,  which I picked up today, and said I didn't need progesterone in her opinion.  Am now hoping for some progress after going hrt free for the last three weeks!

Sorry it's a bit long winded,  and thanks for listening.  Oh, and I totally agree with katebird, it seems that we jus have to get on with finding our own way.  This situation happens to every woman on the planet at varying degrees.  It makes me want to scream that our struggling is dealt with so nonchalantly.  Feeling really crap today,  so sorry again for ramblings.  Hugs to you all x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 16, 2017, 09:51:14 PM
Hi, doolou!

Well I'm so glad you did manage to get the Estrogel! What an experience! Can I ask - have you ever thought of taking up vaping? I'm a light vaper now (3mg juice) and it really does make a huge difference! The NHS have now declared this to be vastly better for health than the ciggies (and will be prescribing it on prescription soon too). It really does help cut down the meno. symptoms making the switch - trust me! And  it's easier to step off too - most of the day now I'm vaping 0% juice. My GP is fine with this and the HRT I take - I checked with them thoroughly.

Please keep us posted on how you get on with the Estrogel. And can I say, what utter crap about the Testosterone! Really!!! I can't believe that we still have to put up with this........It makes my blood boil!!! >:(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on February 16, 2017, 10:32:21 PM
Hi Tempest, and thank you for your reply.  Yes I have thought about vaping. I currently smoke about 15 a day,  and yes I know the risks,  and my point to the doctor was that I didn't suffer any of these symptoms until I went on to combined hrt then reduced the dose.  I don't deny that it will definitely have some impact,  but she failed to also ask or take into account that I still go to the gym twice a week (even though I am restricted somewhat by my prolapse), eat a healthy diet,  and have an active stessful job!  Sorry,  ranting now! Blood at boiling point too!  ;D  Lol. Anyway yes I have thought about it and even made some enquiries last year, but am seriously considering investing in one to give it a go. Any recommendations please?  Don't really know where to start with the best makes,  and strength?  Thanks again,  you're too kind  :) x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 17, 2017, 04:39:54 AM
Dear Hurd IT you

Thank you for your kind post which I am reading at this crazy time of day! due to meno I am in a phase of rapid heartbeat and cannot fall asleep!   

I have been tried on clonidine and proprananol but no good.  What I am concerned about is that if it's all down to low hormones which I cannot touch, how will it cease or does ones body get used to lower levels?  The mood and headaches are the worst for me and are really affecting my quality of life so I may well need to increase the venlafaxine as there are days I am in floods of tears then it goes again! I did have my thyroid checked and my weight is ok.

The power of hormones are greatly overlooked and I know most doctors would just think I and women like me are just depressed and anxious it's so frustrating!! 

Thanks again it is good to vent and see what others think or advise and surely it has to end sometime.

St x

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 17, 2017, 12:50:23 PM
Your body should get used to lower levels at some point but sounds like it is taking a while in your case. Are you able to ask for a referral to a specialist because maybe there are particular treatments for those who have had both breast cancer and surgical menopause? It is very frustrating as you say that depression is given as the diagnosis for what are clearly powerful hormonal effects, but if you are unable to replace those hormones it is tricky.

I do hope you feel better soon....

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on February 17, 2017, 04:56:06 PM
Hi Tempest
Thanks for all that I will have a read, I expect I will have questions as to be fair I'm a bit confused by everything to do with menopause & hrt!! Yes I'm in Yorkshire, in the East Riding!
Hi Yorkshire girl.  I am also in the East Riding of Yorkshire.  I've just had an appointment with the menopause clinic in Hull. You will need to be referred though,  so maybe ask your GP or gynaecologist x
Hi Doolou my gynaecologist is not that great, barely said anything at my appt before op!! I don't know whether our doctor's surgery refer to a menopause clinic, it hasn't been mentioned. I've been on hrt estraderm mx25 for 4 weeks & seem to be helping with my hot flushes, the only symptom I've had. Night sweats lasted 2 weeks & stopped before hrt!! Will see when I go back to dr's for review x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 18, 2017, 02:40:00 PM
Yes Hurdity I was referred to meno clinic but they didn't see any point in seeing me because of me not being allowed hrt but they were very understanding over the telephone etc. 

I think as you say it is going to take time and perhaps I may see a good herbalist to help along the way.

How are you hurdity?

Tempest you have been to hormonal hell & back bless you I hope your current regime is working better.

St x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 18, 2017, 06:01:30 PM
Sweet tooth, you are so lovely! Thank you so very much for your kind words.  :thankyou:

There are a couple of other ladies here who are BSO who aren't using HRT - Coldethyl and Groundhog (both wonderful ladies too). I know they're not on estrogen blocking medications, but I wonder if you might like to hook up for some support for each other?

I very much hope that the ladies who walk the 'road less travelled' with no HRT feel comfortable to pop in here any time and post - never feel alone! It's amazing the things I come across that may help as I expand my research into life after TAH/BSO - I've just been speaking to 2 ladies who graciously shared their experiences with me who are ovarian cancer survivors. If I can find anything at all that may ease your journey, I'll be so very happy to share it with you (I'm just reading through some notes now, so will post my findings soonest)!

Warmest hugs,

Tempest xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on February 18, 2017, 09:41:27 PM
You're so sweet Tempest!!!
such a great support to all us BSO ladies xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 18, 2017, 09:45:38 PM
Sweet tooth - sorry to hear you are struggling - I had tah/bso last September due to ovarian cancer - turned out also to have uterine tumour - although neither hormone dependent I was told prior to surgery I'd be getting nothing for the hell they were about to create ! I have to say so far, I've actually been better post than pre hysterectomy as I think my erratic hormones have settled down - I take beta blockers for my anxiety and low dose of them ( 30mg) seems enough to stop the terrible adrenaline surges I was getting - I know all about yukky palpitations - all o can suggest there is getting a thorough check over and then when they come, reminding yourself that they are just horrbile but harmless - I found doing some mindful breathing took my mind off them a bit - I get hot flushes most days but they are bearable at the minute and without my ovaries , they don't seem as associates with anxiety as they were- did your oncologist quantify the benefits of taking whichever oestrogen blocker you are on? I have a friend who decided against it as the benefit wasn't that great when compared to the side effects ? X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 19, 2017, 02:11:42 AM
Tempest thank you, I know you will help if possible so please do let me know.  As I am sure like a lot of the ladies on this site, friends and family are not struggling as much so it can be difficult to share. 

Coldethyl thank you for your lovely post and I too am very sorry to read what you have been through! A lady I know had ovarian cancer quite advanced thankfully she is doing great....and is on estrogen, what explanation were you given to 'no hrt'?  It is good your hormones have settled and I thought this would happen to me hence choosing to remove ovaries - but no - goes to prove we are all react very different.

Yes my oncologist did tell me that in my case she really wanted me to stay on drug for 5yrs ..and would review me again soon as I got upset😢 I had a good day today NO headache and level mood. Like you I do some breathing and take a beta blocker only when surges appear and like you they are not associated with anxiety so more annoying/uncomfortable. Stooth x


Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: charliegirl on February 19, 2017, 10:09:19 AM
Hi ladies, good thread as already posted something in forum. I had a hysterectomy in March last year due to endometriosis in the womb. Have been ok since but now have period type pains? and night sweats again, I still have ovaries so wondering if this can be possible, especially tummy ache?
Charliegirlx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 19, 2017, 10:12:30 AM
No explanation for no HRT was given really just told that the operation would make me menopausal and when I said I had already been struggling with it all, the registrar laughed and said " well we are about to make it a whole lot worse and you can't have anything for it." My aunt had a hormonal dependent breast cancer so I was reluctant anyway but  neither of my tumours turned out to be connected to oestrogen so if things worsen I may push to see someone who knows what they are talking about re HRT for cancer patients.
As I am on chemo, it's hard to know what are the side effects of that and what are meno symptoms as I'm very tired and ache all over but I'm blaming the taxol for that !
Fingers crossed you find some way of dealing with your symptoms as I remember how hellish peri was and am so relieved that some of the terrible mood swings and migraines have gone away post op for me. X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 19, 2017, 10:16:04 AM
Hi ladies, good thread as already posted something in forum. I had a hysterectomy in March last year due to endometriosis in the womb. Have been ok since but now have period type pains? and night sweats again, I still have ovaries so wondering if this can be possible, especially tummy ache?
Charliegirlx


If you've kept your ovaries , it's perfectly possible to experiebce renewed endometriosis activity as you are still producing oestrogen. Also , you will be ovulating so you can have pelvic cramping with that. Reading round on the subject , period like pains are common after hysterectomy including amongst women who have had everything removed . I know last few weeks I've been having what feel like menstrual cramps to me, even though I have had a TAh /BSO - I had endo too and suspect that it is adhesions from that and the op playing up.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 19, 2017, 11:07:23 AM
Hi, ladies!

As you know, I'm trialling Tibolone and so far it's been pretty difficult. I have particularly been having problems with mood and also suffer from CPTSD. My psychiatrist has suggested Quetiapine previously and if I don't see significant improvement on the Tibolone to warrant continuing, I will then pursue this avenue (in my case, then possibly adding in ERT once my mood has stabilised for bone/heart protection).

I have been researching clinical data on Quetiapine and I wanted to share this study with you as it showed good results for postmenopausal mood and vasomotor symptoms, as well as quality and quantity of sleep:

http://www.europsy-journal.com/article/S0924-9338(09)70913-7/abstract

This might be very useful to you ladies who cannot use HRT - it has antidepressant effects but it's primary function is as a mood stabiliser.

Many studies have also shown that estrogen replacement post menopause does not have a significant effect in improving mood specifically other than the 'knock on effect' possibly from alleviating vasomotor symptoms and sleeplessness (whereas it seems to have a more positive effect in perimenopause if there are no other contributing factors for low/unstable mood), so this is worth considering if low mood/anxiety/mood instability is a major concern for you.

I hope you find this interesting! xxxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 19, 2017, 11:34:03 AM
This is a bit of a weighty article but I'd thought I'd post it to illustrate the findings about ERT and post menopausal mood. Us ladies who have received BSO surgery can consider ourselves 'late post menopausal' in case there is any confusion (as in, we not longer have gonadal fluctuating hormones).

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/41/10332
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 19, 2017, 05:02:45 PM
hello.
im mandy and new to this forum. i had a full hysterectomy when i was 44 (im 49 now) i had sever pmt and terrible periods. thought i had endo but i had adenomyosis.
been on estradot patches from the start but recently had to change to ellest solo due to supply problems. im ok on these too. i think hrt agrees with me.
only worry i have is they said at 51 im to come off hrt and go to a natural menopause, this terrifies me. stupidly i keep thinking that my pmt will come back. i cant go back. i was almost having suicidal thoughts towards the end. it almost destroyed me.
i heard that mood swings are part of menopause??
can i stay on HRT or will they make me come off it?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 19, 2017, 05:20:08 PM
Hello, Mandy! :welcomemm:

Provided you are in reasonably good health, there is absolutely no reason if you're doing well on HRT that you should be forced to stop! We have a good few ladies here who are continuing happily on their HRT into their 60's. If your GP is forcing you to stop for no good reason, then DO register with another GP. And also point out to them the new NICE guidelines regarding HRT prescribing!

I'm sure a very helpful lady here named Hurdity will be along shortly to give you the same reassurance.

Hugs - and please don't worry! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on February 19, 2017, 06:04:28 PM
Mandy , my local gynae dr told me as long as I am healthy (I have no uterus, kept ovaries but they dissolved) that I can stay on hrt for the rest of my life

Personally I choose quality of life over quantity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: charliegirl on February 19, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
Hi everyone, Charliegirl here, I am older than most on here and had a hysterectomy a year ago. Have been fine mostly and was thanking God for it when out of the blue have had the same tummy/back ache and low mood, even had night sweats again!! The gyne told me to try without HRT due to my age at 64 but if I couldnt cope to go to GP. I have has a period of terrible stress recently and wondered whether it had brought all this on!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 19, 2017, 08:25:17 PM
Hi, Charlie girl!

I'm assuming you've had your ovaries removed too? Any period of stress can throw our bodies off kilter - especially if you've had your ovaries removed as your primary source of hormones would now be from your adrenal glands and stored fat. Have you also lost any weight recently? This can make a difference, and weight often drops during times of great stress too.

Can I ask - have you also had your thyroid checked? This can also produce similar symptoms including sweats and low mood. It's probably very much worth going to your GP and having a chat. I know we have one lady here who has started HRT at 60, so if you're really struggling and have had your ovaries removed your GP may be able to help you with a low dose estrogen patch to start.

Don't struggle on alone - we're always here for a chat and support. Maybe pick up that phone tomorrow and give your GP a call - you certainly have nothing to lose. Do let us know how you get on, won't you? xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: charliegirl on February 19, 2017, 09:41:11 PM
Thanks everybody and especially Tempest. Yes I do agree that stress has upset everything. I still have my ovaries tho but do know that adrenaline fatigue can mean that I dont  have as much hormones hence the symptoms. I will book an appointment with GP tomorrow. Bless you all and hope we all feel better soon.xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 20, 2017, 12:33:18 AM
Welcome Mandyw, you sometimes need to be quite assertive when it comes to staying on hrt....remember it is your life your body! anyway medics opinions seem to be more relaxed at present re hrt

Ethyl have you long to go to finish your chemo?

Interesting stuff on quetiapine Tempest, do you mind me asking if you are on any ADs at present? Sorry to hear you are still struggling!

X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 20, 2017, 09:51:06 AM
Hi, Sweettooth!

No, I don't take AD's at present. I tried SSRI's before I started HRT and the three I tried all caused me problems. My GP offered me these over HRT! I did one year post surgery with no HRT and before trialling the AD's, so I know a little of how you must be feeling (although not from the estrogen blocking drug).

My psychiatrist has been holding off to see if things settle on the Tibolone. It is quite a hard HRT to settle on and takes a while by all accounts. I'm still keeping the idea of using the Quetiapine open - I'll be seeing my psychiatrist at the beginning of March and I'll discuss it with him then (he thinks it's a better option due to its mood stabilising effects). xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 20, 2017, 06:02:57 PM
hello.
im mandy and new to this forum. i had a full hysterectomy when i was 44 (im 49 now) i had sever pmt and terrible periods. thought i had endo but i had adenomyosis.
been on estradot patches from the start but recently had to change to ellest solo due to supply problems. im ok on these too. i think hrt agrees with me.
only worry i have is they said at 51 im to come off hrt and go to a natural menopause, this terrifies me. stupidly i keep thinking that my pmt will come back. i cant go back. i was almost having suicidal thoughts towards the end. it almost destroyed me.
i heard that mood swings are part of menopause??
can i stay on HRT or will they make me come off it?

Hi mandyw

 :welcomemm:

Yes I am in my 60's and still on HRT! They cannot make you come off if there is no medical reason why you should not stay on it! You haven't said whether you kept your ovaries but presumably not as you just said full hysterectomy but not BSO too? This is different from surgical menopause - which is when the lot (womb, cervix and ovaries or just womb and ovaries) are removed before you have reached natural menopause, plunging you into menopause straight away.

The outcome of coming off the HRT will be slightly different depending on whether you have a surgical menopause or not. If you still have ovaries then they will still be functioning and you may well still experience some mood swings and pms until they fail (depending on when you would reach natural menopause). If you've had a total hyster and BSO then you won't experience the same mood swings - because you have no ovaries but your hormone levels will just fall and can give you low mood/anxiety/depression as well as flushes and sweats.

Stay on it for as long as you want to - and if necessary ask for a referral to a menopause clinic. I am sure they cannot make you stop anyway!

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 20, 2017, 08:25:38 PM
You are correct, Hurdity! My Consultant said that at any time I'm asked to stop HRT by a GP, I am to ask to be re-referred back to her (assuming that I'm not at that time still under her care). The situation for surgical menopause is different - I'm assuming here that Mandy is BSO but I may be wrong.

Can I just also confirm that mood swings are very much a feature of very low estrogen in surgical menopause when not on HRT - this is caused by the knock on effect this has on neurotransmitters so I know a lot of ladies are confused and wonder how they can possibly be having mood swings when their hormones are no longer fluctuating. This is a very widely reported phenomena - and why my Consultant often counsel's ladies who have BSO who cannot take HRT that an SSRI or SNRI may be an important addition (of course these AD's can help with vasomotor symptoms too). Women who also receive surgery for BRCA pre menopause are often advised to commence an SSRI or SNRI at the clinic too prior to surgery for this reason until their HRT is stabilised post surgery.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 20, 2017, 08:32:01 PM
I wonder if my improved mood swings post BSO are because I was already close to meno as my periods were erratic and I'd gone several months without on many occasions? I've noticed odd things since my surgery though. I still feel like I'm getting a cycle of sorts as breasts swell and I get period like cramps though no womb!!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 20, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Maybe, Coldethyl! By the way, how did the last chemo. session go? I was so pleased to hear about your blood test! :)

I had sore swollen breasts periodically for up to 6 to 8 months after my surgery, and then it stopped completely. This was of course when I wasn't using any HRT. My best guess is that this is fluctuations in the fall of your stored estrogen and /or fluctuations in adrenal hormone production - it can take a good while for your stores to become depleted. I hit 'the wall' with very low estrogen symptoms roughly about the 9 month post surgery mark. Some ladies do, some ladies don't and some hit rock bottom very quickly after surgery. There is much written about this over at Hystersisters - expect the unexpected in surgical menopause! :o xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on February 20, 2017, 08:42:32 PM
hello.
im mandy and new to this forum. i had a full hysterectomy when i was 44 (im 49 now) i had sever pmt and terrible periods. thought i had endo but i had adenomyosis.
been on estradot patches from the start but recently had to change to ellest solo due to supply problems. im ok on these too. i think hrt agrees with me.
only worry i have is they said at 51 im to come off hrt and go to a natural menopause, this terrifies me. stupidly i keep thinking that my pmt will come back. i cant go back. i was almost having suicidal thoughts towards the end. it almost destroyed me.
i heard that mood swings are part of menopause??
can i stay on HRT or will they make me come off it?
Hi Mandy,
It's nice to meet someone else who had a hysterectomy with BSO due to severe PMS, I also had the suicidal thoughts & it is destroying. Had mine Dec 2016 age 44 HRT is agreeing with me at the moment hope it continues. My doc was also talking about taking me off HRT once I reach 50, which also worries me. Surely they can't make you come off it, you definitely don't want the mood swings etc that come with a natural menopause. Hope it all works out for you x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 20, 2017, 08:46:23 PM
Long day as I had to be at unit at 8.30 for retest and left just after 4.30. Chemo ok  - ache all over but I expect that now. Don't think it helps having had chemo so soon after two major ops as I think nothing has healed inside as well as it might yet.
I do worry I'll hit a brick wall and HRT not an option but I'll face it if it happens. I am just thankful I not rushing to a and e every week with " heart attacks" or wanting to curl up and not wake up as I was Christmas of 2016. Bizarrely the cancer has been a distraction from the anxiety ! X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 20, 2017, 09:26:41 PM
Bless your heart, Coldethyl! It is such a long day - we have a lassie a couple of streets away who is picked up for her chemo sessions by patient ambulance. Because they have to pick up other patients, she's leaving the house at 6.45 and then has to go around the doors on the way home as they drop off other patients.....she's shattered! I really think they should send a car for her, but they've made major cut backs to patient transport now..... :(

I must admit, my symptoms were less after the surgery if that helps! When I 'hit the wall' what I noticed was that I was very, very tired and joints ached, and boobs were very 'empty' - my mood was low, but I didn't have the 'crazies' that I had in peri! The only time the 'crazies' returned for me was when I was on estrogen only HRT - and then I had really bad mood swings. It was like permanent PMT and not pleasant at all! I'm thinking that you may very well be ok, as you will still be producing hormones from the adrenals and fat (I'm not going to go into the technicalities as you probably know how that works anyway by now)! ;) The anxiety has only really kicked off since all of this faffing trying different types/doses of HRT - I sometimes wonder what the hell I've put myself through this for (apart from the supposed heart/bone benefits, it's nearly driven me insane).

Nothing is a 'given' with this journey though - I was over at the Ovacome forum the other day and there is a lady there who hasn't used HRT following her diagnosis, surgery and treatment and since then she has written 2 successful Billboard chart songs and 2 children's books. One thing that IS a given is that women are remarkable.......And you have achieved a remarkable milestone today with your last session! We're always here for you to help you forward. Much love. xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on February 20, 2017, 09:31:32 PM
P.S.......Here's the lady's story I mentioned above, as well as other totally positive reports from other ladies who have gone the no HRT route after their diagnosis/surgery/treatment. I thought you might like to see (their stories are in comments in response to the original poster)........xxxxx

https://healthunlocked.com/ovacome/posts/130943572/question-about-hrt-for-36yo-after-oophorectomy

(Don't worry, there are no mentions of prognosis, just positive no HRT reports)!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 20, 2017, 09:42:38 PM
Thanks will check out later on . My brain is starting to go mushy now. Chemo is amazing stuff but boy does it screw every bit of you up.
I do hope we all find some equilibrium either with or without HRT. Women are indeed amazing. X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 21, 2017, 08:17:04 AM
thank you ladies great advice.
and as for the question yes i had a full monty, the whole lot gone, overies ,womb you name it and anything else they decided to take was welcoming relief.
yorkshire girl isnt it the best operation ever, my quality of life has improved so much i hardly recognise myself!! (can i ask what BSO is. lots of abbreviations on here and i dont know what they mean yet?)
thank you hurdity im going to keep your advice in mind and be firm that i dont want to come off hrt...............
if only they could come up with a HRT that will reduce the size of my bum. i asked my doctor why HRT causes weight gain and he said if i knew the answer id develop a Patch make you all slim and become a millionaire over night!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on February 21, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Hi Mandy
It certainly is best op, no more feeling like it's the end of the world constantly. BSO is bilateral salpingo oophorectomy - overy & fallopian tube removal!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: donnacrichton on February 21, 2017, 08:28:25 PM
Did either of you ladies try getting your ovaries shut down before removal?  They have tried that for me but not great results not convinced they areally fully shut down. I feel like removal is the right option x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 21, 2017, 10:17:26 PM
Kindle only gives me 6words then blocked
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 21, 2017, 10:18:01 PM
Anybody else have this problem
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 21, 2017, 10:19:42 PM
Try again.
I had injections for six months to shut
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: donnacrichton on February 21, 2017, 10:24:03 PM
I've had zoladex for 12 months then buserelin can have great spells then for no reason cycle seems to break through don't understand it. On same dose of estrogen??
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sweettooth on February 22, 2017, 01:52:25 AM
Coldethyl just wanted to say I am thinking of you....onwards and upwards, better times will lay ahead and please don't worry about that 'brick' wall - I would say you have already hit it and bounced back😎 St x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 22, 2017, 06:33:30 AM
Try again Donna.
I was on the injections to shut my system down for six months. Horrendous hot flushes with them. When I stopped them they hoped a break in the cycle would work and my periods would be normal....What the heck was it all about. Came back just as bad. That's when I had the hysterectomy.
Can't remember what they were called??
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 22, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Coldethyl just wanted to say I am thinking of you....onwards and upwards, better times will lay ahead and please don't worry about that 'brick' wall - I would say you have already hit it and bounced back😎 St x

Thank you for your thoughts x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: charliegirl on February 22, 2017, 10:12:38 AM
Reading some of the posts I think I know what the problem is. I have been thru a very stressful period recently with terrible anxiety and my adrenaline glands are exhausted and not producing any hormones lesding to return of crsmps and night sweats. Have been reading about adrenaline fatigue and its a very real condition. Anyone else heard of this?xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: TallSarah on February 22, 2017, 03:43:22 PM
Hello all, what a relief to find this message board!  I'm 37 and had hysterectomy, BSO and extensive excision of endometriosis at then end of Oct.  I've been taking tibolone since the beginning of December. I've found it very difficult mood-wise.  Feeling very anxious and panicky for days at a time.  And I've developed acne too.  Anyway plucked up the courage to ask my gp to change my hrt.  I've found posts on here very useful.  I've decided to suggest estradot and utrogestan. I was told by the Hosp to have combined hrt for the first yr after op although not sure why.  Anyway I thought that if it's the progesterone making me feel this way it would easier to stop.

Any comments or advice welcome!  And is it easy to swap between different hrt?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on February 22, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
I think the reasoning behind combined Hrt for you is that unopposed oestrogen has been shown to reactivate endometriosis - no surgeon can remove it all so even without ovaries it can be fed by hrt or indeed produce its own oestrogen supply x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on February 22, 2017, 05:30:08 PM
Hello all, what a relief to find this message board!  I'm 37 and had hysterectomy, BSO and extensive excision of endometriosis at then end of Oct.  I've been taking tibolone since the beginning of December. I've found it very difficult mood-wise.  Feeling very anxious and panicky for days at a time.  And I've developed acne too.  Anyway plucked up the courage to ask my gp to change my hrt.  I've found posts on here very useful.  I've decided to suggest estradot and utrogestan. I was told by the Hosp to have combined hrt for the first yr after op although not sure why.  Anyway I thought that if it's the progesterone making me feel this way it would easier to stop.

Any comments or advice welcome!  And is it easy to swap between different hrt?

Hi TallSarah

 :welcomemm:

Sorry to hear you are feeling rough following your TAH/BSO and Tibolone is not doing the job for you!

I use Estradot and utrogestan - although I still have a uterus!

What dose of Estradot will you be taking and I presume you will be taking the utrogestan orally? You may also want to consider testosterone at some point in addition - although this is only available to women off licence, usually only from specialists but sometimes from GPs.

Your body has been through an enormous change and it will take some time for it to settle - this is the right thread for women in your position to share experiences although the complications of having to have progesterone make you a bit special!

Yes it is very easy to swap between HRT types and especially with continuous combined - you just changeover whenever you like!

Let us know who you get on with this combo and do hope it works for you :)

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on February 23, 2017, 01:24:33 PM
hi tallsarah,
i also had hysterectomy same as you due to adenomyosis.  i was on estradot for 4 years and was great on it, only problems with it as many have said is supply issues, i gave up in the end trying and am now on elesse solo which is very similar.

mandy
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: TallSarah on February 23, 2017, 05:46:41 PM
Thank you Coldethyl, Hurdity and Mandyw for your replies.

I've seen my GP.  Neither her or her more experienced colleague know what to do with apparently. They have said come off tibolone and they will refer me to a local gynae team so they can suggest what hrt to have.  In the meantime I will be prescribed low dose SSRI to help with hot flushes etc.

Pleased that they will refer me but worried about coming off tibolone for a few weeks and then the possibility of horrid side effect when I try something new. First 3 weeks of tibolone were terrible.

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on February 23, 2017, 05:59:49 PM
Did either of you ladies try getting your ovaries shut down before removal?  They have tried that for me but not great results not convinced they areally fully shut down. I feel like removal is the right option x
Hi Donna  I had Zoladex injections which really did work, suffered with hot flushes but weren't as bad as they are after surgery, also had a few night sweats.  Depending on how old you are I personally would have ovaries removed x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: donnacrichton on February 24, 2017, 06:06:35 PM
My time on zoladex was very mixed.  I would have a few weeks and be great then estrogen would pop in although I had changed nothing. We tried a few hrt during this time thinking it was the hrt not settling.  Consultant thought my body wasn't absorbing it very well. Switched to buserelin nasal spray and it seemed to work OK.  Managed to stay on estradot for 7 months at the same dose ( this is a miracle for me lol). This spray is definitely not being absorbed correctly I can feel symptoms after taking the spray then it tails off.  If it runs back my throat or out my nose I get symptoms of estrogen rising within hours. I haven't found many people who have used this so don't know if it is a problem for absorbing that cause the fluctuations or if I'm a lost cause!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: LJB12 on March 03, 2017, 01:43:10 PM
Hello, I'm a surgical meno case. BSO in Dec 2014 to cure PMDD, which it did and I think I managed meno symptoms quite well during 2016 using Elleste Solo 2mg plus mirena.

I was then prescribed testim (and vagifem) which has helped with libido etc but with my meno consultant we have been messing with my estrogen dosage and now I feel helpless, lost and pretty upset. Went on a 100mcg patch which made me anxious, total loss of confidence etc. Last week started taking the 2mg tablets again and now feel low and depressed.

It is impacting me at work and I feel rubbish because this is really my dream job and I feel like I'm messing it up, just like I did when I had PMDD  :'(

This too shall pass, right?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on March 03, 2017, 06:55:33 PM
Hello LJB can't help with your hrt question, but I would like to say welcome & sorry to read what you're going through. I had a TAH BSO Dec 2016 also for severe PMS (PMDD) it has helped, I have been put on estraderm patches 25mg. I really do hope you find the right doses of hrt for you xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tired@ on March 04, 2017, 08:49:57 AM
Hi Ladies

I HAD TAH/BSO 8 weeks ago due to complex hyperplasia. I am 52 but suffered no menopause symptoms just incredibly heavy and painful periods every month and became anaemic and starting losing my hair. My issue seems so minor compared to some other ladies on this thread and your stories make me sad and angry that these things have happened to you.

I recovered really well but at 8 weeks had a meltdown due to lack of sleep, hot flushes, mood swings, slight depression. I have tried to self medicate with exercise, diet, natural remedies, you name it I'm using it but nothing has worked although it could have been worse if I had not taken anything.

I rang my GP in desperation and begged for some estrogen and she gave me estradiol 1mg tablets 3 days ago. I'm still taking my natural things as I'm terrified everything will get worse but I do feel slightly better, sleep is a little bit improved which mean I can function better.

Is there anyone else taking this medication? And how long does it take to kick in? I was a happy woman with a great sex life and young at heart, this operation has made me feel old and tired in a way I never thought possible. I just want to feel good again. I long for my old self.

Anyone any positive stories to tell. I will report back on progress in case there is anyone in the same position xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on March 04, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Hi Tired,

I had BSO last March and was happily going through menopause before this. 2 weeks post op I completely crashed, insomnia, foggy head, anxiety - weak and faint. Didn't know what was wrong initially then it dawned on me that it is lack of oestrogen. Blood test confirm no oestrogen. I went on Femoston 1mg, (I needed prog as still had uterus), after persuading the surgeon that this was indeed the issue. It took several weeks to get my pre op levels back (although don't know what they were as never tested!!!)and hence get back to normality.

After 8 weeks headaches started, but this was due to synthetic prog in femoston I think - which you do not need fortunately. Eventually settled on Oestrodot 75ug patch which gives a nice constant dose.

Hope this helps, I also went to see a meno specialist as my surgeon did not want to know when I started complaining of headaches, who has sorted me out.It has been been one of the worst things that I have experienced and I am a pretty tough person.

Rhiner
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on March 04, 2017, 06:20:37 PM
Hi girls.  Hope you're all ok today.  I thought I'd post a further update on my saga! So......I began using estrogel 2 weeks ago. On day 3 I began to get a very sore chuff (as I call it). Felt a bit thrushy?  Bought a tablet to take to try and help.  Got to day 7 and couldn't stand it, so arrived back at the meno clinic as they said to call in. Saw a wonderful consultant,  who was amazing, lovely and understanding and said it is probably a dermatological reaction to the gel, to stop using it, have a week off and prescribed evorel 50 patch which I've started using today.  Keeping everything crossed,  as this time last week I couldn't stop crying,  thought what's the point etc.  Obviously hormone crash,  but it's been a long tough journey, I've now got my date for my repair operation for 6th April (scared is an understatement) but I can't carry on like this.  The good news is I took your advice,  and bought an e - cig. Have reduced my smoking massively,  and my BP is within the limits constantly now.  I also managed to get off Lansoprosole, thank goodness.  Thanks to you all for your ongoing support and information. Hugs xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: charliegirl on March 05, 2017, 11:15:07 AM
Right thats it now! Feel sooo ill and its never ending. Going to gp next week and ask for some HRT, am not having a life here just sitting about ! >:( . So fed up with it. Sorry to rant but nobody understands what I am feeling like! Hope somebody on here does. Love Charliegirl.xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: LJB12 on March 05, 2017, 11:39:53 AM
Yes charliegirl, we do.

Love n hugs xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on March 05, 2017, 04:11:21 PM
I second that......yes Charliegirl, we certainly do! It's a roller coaster of trial and error!  Hugs xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: walking the dog on March 10, 2017, 03:20:29 PM
Had my hysterectomy last week , everything removed. I'm not allowed estrogen until four weeks post op but so far I'm ok (ish) I know its early days , I'm dreading the hormone crash
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on March 11, 2017, 10:26:45 PM
Hi Walking the dog, I read about the hormone crash on here, but I never had one! Whether that was because I was on Zoladex before my TAH BSO back in Dec last year, or not I don't know. Generally you can't start hrt until around 6 weeks due to increased chance of blood clots. The only menopausal symptoms I had were very intense hot flushes & for the first 3 weeks night sweats but they were random coming in waves! Hope your recovery is going well x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on March 11, 2017, 10:33:55 PM
I'm now 5 1/2 months post everything that moved out and I'm doing ok still. Hot flushes come and go during day and I've noticed I'm waking up with one in morning but so far they are doable. Just as well as cancer ruled out HRT. I am noticing bladder issues in that some days I feel like I'm trying to pass a glass rod!!! No infection just discomfort and having just been on chemo don't know if that's op related or chemo related as apoarentiy it can affect bladder ( or anything with fast grwoing cells tbh!) x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: walking the dog on March 11, 2017, 10:41:50 PM
Thanks for your replies Yorkshire girl and coldethyl
I'm now ten days post operative and still doing ok , no flushes , moods ok (for me) as I have had terrible anxiety peri menopause.
I too read about the hormones crashing on here and have been waiting for it to happen I hope it doesn't. I had such a,terrible peri menopause  seven years of depression and anxiety plus flushes etc , I really need a break ( dont we all )
I was on estrogen 50 patch right up to the point I was wheeled into operation theatre where they removed it , so dont know if that makes a,difference to symptoms after ovary removal ?
Any advice gratefully accepted
Xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on March 12, 2017, 11:09:07 AM
I don't really belong here as although I had my uterus taken yonks ago I kept my ovaries but they've seemingly gone too now and I was declared post meno at 48, could've been bit earlier but never mind.   Around that time or maybe towards end of peri (I've had horrible symptoms, but haven't we all) I went on an 11 night holiday to Spain and forgot my hrt ! I didn't feel one little bit different that whole holiday despite my panic at forgetting the hrt, I should've really used that to see if I could do without but the minute I got home I ran for my oestrogen pills so I'll never know.  I think it can take a few weeks hrt-less before you notice but on the other hand you may feel fine never using it again x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Stick_insect on March 12, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
I'm almost a year post op everything removed. For me there was no hormone crash. Flushes appeared gradually over 6 weeks or so. They are abating now some days are worse than others. I have recently been prescribed ovestin for VA - after a weeks use I can't believe the difference. I'm actually much more stable mood wise and have no depression/anxiety off hormones. I was really bad when perimenopausal. Headaches have also all but disappeared and they had been limiting my day to day life prior to my op. I read soon after my tah and bso a story by another who had gone through the op and had never taken HRT and she said if you didn't go looking for problems it was amazing how many didn't manifest themselves. I have good and bad days but I feel so much better post op - I wish I hadn't ignored my symptoms for years and had my op 3 or 4 years earlier.
I hope you are recovering well ell. It does take a long time for internal healing to take place a lot of muscles and supporting structures have been damaged/repaired during surgery.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: walking the dog on March 12, 2017, 01:31:43 PM
Ladies you have no idea how good your positive stories make me feel.
Fingers crossed I continue as I am and that you all remain positive xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mandyw on March 17, 2017, 01:23:48 PM
hi,
i started estradot patches 10 days after hysterectomy, no hormone crash just very dizzy and hot.

mandy
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on March 30, 2017, 04:03:17 PM
Hi, ladies!

I haven't abandoned you all - promise! I'm 32 days off all HRT now and doing ok! Still a few 'warm ones' after main meal of the day and a bit of warmth at night but THAT'S  IT! Saw my gynaecologist who originally did my surgery 2 days ago and he thinks I should be ok!

The anxiety I had on HRT has gone, by the way! :)

I'm off to see my surgeon's endocrinology colleague shortly to check adrenal function and thyroid are all ok - as I've been through the 'wringer' on and off HRT and never getting stable, my surgeon thought it was a good idea. I'm so grateful for his care. I will keep my appointment at Professor Lumsden's clinic in May if only to tell her nothing worked (my surgeon thinks this is a good idea)!

I also spoke with a lovely lady I know who is 62 now yesterday and did 6 years on HRT following her TAH/BSO at the age of 42, and then came off due to worsening migraines. I can report that she hasn't fallen apart, still works full time in a demanding job with swing shifts and is looking forward to her daughter's wedding shortly. I like to bring you happy stories if I can. :)

Much love to all my sisters here - and well done on the e cig Doolou - I knew it would work! Coldethyl - I am SO glad that you're continuing to do ok. You really have been a huge help and inspiration to me in taking the plunge and coming off HRT. Hugs!! xxx


Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Elizabethrose on March 30, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
Really lovely to hear from you Tempest and wonderful to hear you're doing so well. Always good to hear happy stories!!

Sending you all good wishes xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on March 30, 2017, 04:08:33 PM
Hi Tempest !

So glad you're still doing great off HRT ! And good luck with your appointments Xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on March 30, 2017, 04:26:53 PM
Oh, thank you so much dear Annie! I have some serious catching up to do on here. ;) xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on March 30, 2017, 06:38:53 PM
Glad to hear you are doing well. I've had a few days when I've thought oh no I feel like I'm not doing so well but I have just gritted teeth and got on with what I have to do, and they've passed. I get flushes sometimes during day , big mostly it's first thing in the morning just before I wake up so I'm putting that down to a big swig of cortisol and adrenaline to get me going. I'm finding navigating meno a bit like coping with the cancer . I try not to look too far ahead and just deal with what is on my plate today. It's hard but living in the moment seems to be what all the agencies involved with my care are advocating so in the absence of any other cunning plan , I'm working with it.
Take care and wishing you well. X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Elizabethrose on March 30, 2017, 07:03:29 PM
Hi coldethyl, I haven't seen you here for a little while and wondered how you are. I'm so glad you're managing.

I think that is definitely the way to go when we're handling difficult times or ill health. Manage the day, pigeon steps: worrying about what the next day will bring just makes it all too difficult and sometimes overwhelming.

Nice to 'see' you and I send you all good wishes x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: coldethyl on March 31, 2017, 07:48:47 AM
Thank you ER. I had a few days away at weekend so wasn't about much online. Nice to have a break and be " normal" for a while.  X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on March 31, 2017, 01:47:47 PM
Great to hear from you Tempest! I just sent a PM, but have caught up on your progress here.

I've sent you mine, but maybe just posting for the other ladies too

I'm nearly 3 weeks after seeing Miss Whitcroft
Taking Metformin + Vit B6, plus Progynova

The same old feelings re the patch, swelling boobs and a feeling of bloatedness all over.. She suggested dropping the patch dose from 50 x 2 to 25 x 2.. so I've done that.. and taking the progynova only every other day. I still feel the same :(
Weight has not shifted AT ALL and I am so frustrated, the 10lbs are strapped to me, so it seems, despite now a low carb diet and doing lots more exercise.. I'm at a loss re that.

In a few weeks I can add T, so maybe, just maybe that will finally do the trick re balancing everything out... If not, I'm going to have to abandon this, as Tempest has, as the other symptoms (insomnia and flushes) have only been relieved in a minor way - not that I was having flushes more like 'surges' in the middle of the night..

I'm prepared to give it a few months and see how the Testosterone works when my estrogen is at a higher level, maybe it's the balance that's been off with me previously

hope everyone is well!

Abby xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on March 31, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
Hi, ladies!

I haven't abandoned you all - promise! I'm 32 days off all HRT now and doing ok! Still a few 'warm ones' after main meal of the day and a bit of warmth at night but THAT'S  IT! Saw my gynaecologist who originally did my surgery 2 days ago and he thinks I should be ok!

The anxiety I had on HRT has gone, by the way! :)

I'm off to see my surgeon's endocrinology colleague shortly to check adrenal function and thyroid are all ok - as I've been through the 'wringer' on and off HRT and never getting stable, my surgeon thought it was a good idea. I'm so grateful for his care. I will keep my appointment at Professor Lumsden's clinic in May if only to tell her nothing worked (my surgeon thinks this is a good idea)!

I also spoke with a lovely lady I know who is 62 now yesterday and did 6 years on HRT following her TAH/BSO at the age of 42, and then came off due to worsening migraines. I can report that she hasn't fallen apart, still works full time in a demanding job with swing shifts and is looking forward to her daughter's wedding shortly. I like to bring you happy stories if I can. :)

Much love to all my sisters here - and well done on the e cig Doolou - I knew it would work! Coldethyl - I am SO glad that you're continuing to do ok. You really have been a huge help and inspiration to me in taking the plunge and coming off HRT. Hugs!! xxx
Hi Tempest,  yes it's lovely to hear from you,  and that you're having a more positive time of things lately.  I've been having a read through this stream again,  and hope you are all finding your way through the tough times along with the fabulous support from the wonderful ladies on here who whilst having their own battles,  can still offer wisdom and hope.  My update?   I have now finished work ready for my repair op next Thursday.  I've been using evorel 50 for nearly 4 weeks now, prescribed by the lovely lady at our meno clinic and feel so much better.  She seemed to think that one year post op for endo, I don't need progesterone.  I am starting on evorel 75 tomorrow as she was happy to increase this.  Only thing is......I will be removing all patches and vagifem next week for the op! Just when I was starting to feel 'me' again  :o I saw my surgeon this morning who explained what she and her senior (as they are operating between them) intend to do. I feel like I am finally getting control of my situation at long last.  My surgeon did mention the fact that I am on oestrogen only,  and had I tried going without?! Oh dear,  if the last few months are anything to go by, compared with how I'm feeling now then I would be gutted if post op she feels oestrogen only can't be used.  I guess I'll have to survive the op, hormone crash,  and see what she says! I asked for a post op follow up this time and she said yes.  I am of course worried about possible complications regarding the bowel etc., but trying to think positively,  and hope that I will end up better than I am now physically and not worse.  I guess with the percentages given,  I have a good chance?  Any opinions or experience would be greatly appreciated.  Sending hugs to all you lovely ladies xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on April 13, 2017, 02:48:12 PM
Don't know if anyone can help. I'm on my hols abroad, before I left home my abdomen had gone back to pre-hysterectomy size, but after day one of my holiday (sat) my abdomen has gone back to looking like I'm 6-9 months pregnant, can anyone shed any light on this? It's distressing as the clothes I've brought with me are now not doing up :(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on April 13, 2017, 04:30:29 PM
Could it be water retention ? Even a 2 hr flight to Spain leaves my ankles swollen for days on end x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on April 13, 2017, 08:04:48 PM
Thanks Annie it could be, I just thought 5 days was too long to still have fluid retention, if that is what is causing swelling.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Menomale on April 13, 2017, 08:12:25 PM
Different food causing bloating?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on April 15, 2017, 06:24:18 PM
I really don't know Menomale but it's really distressing me, I eat the same for breakfast & lunch as i do at home porridge & sandwich respectively, as for dinner fish, prawns, veggie dishes, chicken more less same as home just done differently!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on May 08, 2017, 04:27:55 PM
Bumping our thread as its been a while, and I'd love to know how you're all getting along. Hugs, Tempest xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sassy44 on May 08, 2017, 04:42:55 PM
I'm 45,had oopehrectomy in Jan. Just ovaries and tubes removed due to cysts. Had mirena coil fitted but soon had it taken out as it moved etc. Then onto everol sequi con but bled a lot. Now on everol conti. Anxiety and bleeding is awful had estradil levels checked. 239 they are? X also have palpertations and a swallowing reflux occurring which makes me panic, has amyone else had this? Waiting to see doc again
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on May 08, 2017, 05:06:38 PM
Hi, Sassy! I'm so sorry you're struggling so badly! Are you seeing a Consultant at a menopause clinic at all? If not, it would be a very good idea to get a referral and we can point you in the right direction if you let us know which part of the country you're in (you can PM me if you're not comfortable saying on the forum).

Hugs,

Tempest xxxxx

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Taz2 on May 08, 2017, 05:11:57 PM
Hi sassy - the progesterone in Evorel can give rise to pmt type symptoms including low mood, panic attacks etc. I think that if you try an HRT with a different progesterone you may find that you feel much better. Some women (me included) do get continuous bleeding on the conti HRT's especially younger women such as yourself. Did you have continuous bleeding on the sequi HRT or "just" heavy bleeds at the end of each cycle and how long did you try it for?

Taz x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sassy44 on May 08, 2017, 05:18:59 PM
Hi, yes just towards the end on the sequi. but doc said cause I have no ovaries I didn't need the sequi so on the cont now for a month so far a bled since. Oh the joys lol. Have been feelin down and very aggy but feeling on the up last few days it's the panic attacks I don't like.i can't swallow and feel like I have a massive tongue! Very strange. Waiting to see doc again ref levels. Than you taz x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Taz2 on May 08, 2017, 08:03:53 PM
I'd definitely ask for a different HRT as norethisterone can make you feel really anxious. If you wanted a patch then FemSeven is ok but some women do have problems with them sticking.

It is correct that you don't need a sequi due to having your ovaries removed but some women still choose to stay on a sequi HRT if they get problematic bleeding on the conti one as then the bleed is predictable (usually) so is easier to manage rather than on/off breakthrough bleeding throughout the month. I think it's especially difficult to settle on conti without bleeding problems if you are still in early meno. You usually have to be in your early fifties before conti HRT is prescribed.

Taz x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on May 08, 2017, 08:56:20 PM
Thought I was doing better now that my GP has put me on everol 50mg patches. Looks like I've seen the last of the hot flushes, which is great. On the other hand woke up at 5.20am on Thursday morning having severe palpitations thought my heart was going to burst through my chest, it was frightening, had another bout while swimming this morning. I'm just hoping they aren't going to become a frequent part of my life. My thumb nail has split at the culticle don't know why. On top of that my son is having a few problems with anxiety, which I'm trying to help him with but at same time struggling with. Hope everyone else is doing ok x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on May 08, 2017, 09:53:32 PM
Dear Yorkshiregirl! I'm going to cover something specifically to do with palpitatons/anxiety whilst on estrogen only HRT over the next couple of days - specifically us TAH/BSO ladies, so watch this space! Don't be frightened - it's not you, it's due to the stimulating effects of unapposed estrogen. I'll share more later, promise!

I don't have any explanation for the nail splitting though,  I'm afraid! xxxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on May 09, 2017, 09:10:52 PM
Thanks Tempest, look forward to reading it. I've never suffered before so it's all new. I think I've had anxiety for a while but it's so mild symptoms t hadn't registered x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on May 12, 2017, 06:57:22 PM
Hello ladies.  I have recently had surgery for slight anterior and larger posterior prolapse.  During the surgery they found a couple more spots of endo and adhesions.  I was just getting into the swing of evorel 50 for a month before the surgery,  but had to remove the patch prior my op. I'm 5 weeks on now, and have been given evorel conti patches,  which I'm looking at starting tomorrow.  I have tried a combined HRT in the past Elleste duet conti and Kliovance,  but felt dreadful on them.  Any information regarding Evorel conti would be greatly appreciated.  Thanking you in advance.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on May 12, 2017, 07:25:29 PM
Bless your heart, Doolou!  I have no advice on this I'm afraid, but so it doesn't get lost you could start a new thread as it might get a better response.

How are you recovering after your surgery?

Hugs,

Tempest xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on May 12, 2017, 07:50:29 PM
Hi Tempest, and thank you for replying.  I may start a new thread then, thanks.  I'm doing ok I think?   :-\ Some days I feel better than others,  taking it really steady,  with the support of amazing friends and my other half who are my rocks.  With the surgery and no hormones again,  I think I've done quite well so far. Going to leave the vagifem for a while though, not keen on going anywhere near yet lol! I'm just hoping that the patches will help all round  and am trying to be positive about them,  even though I had a bad time on the tablet form.Thanks again,  and hope you are well x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on May 12, 2017, 09:01:06 PM
You're doing remarkably well,  Doolou! Thank goodness for great friends and partners. :)

Be sure to have plenty of rest, 'me time' and spoil yourself too. That's an order!  ;)

Hugs! xxxxx

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on May 14, 2017, 08:33:54 AM
Thank you Tempest, you are so kind  :) I put the patch on yesterday morning, thinking that if it's awful, then I can always take it off! So far so good I think? I have a bit more energy this morning, maybe that's because I'm finally shaking off a throat infection too? Problem is  I want to do more! Mmm.....Lol. Done a little bit of ironing, can't wait til my other half is home from working away. But having lunch out today with the girls. Trying to remain positive about feeling a bit different each day, some good, some not so good. Anyway.....forward and onward. Wishing all you lovely ladies well x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on May 19, 2017, 08:35:49 AM
Hi

Thanks so much for setting up this thread. I also was rather uninformed and not guided as to what could happen after removing ovaries!

Will keep as brief as possible...history of period problems, endometriosis, awful cycles, ill 3 weeks out of 4 as got older, infertility, IVF (which I'm sure has messed me up hormonally). 2013 went on pill - awful, tried mireno coil and patch to try and stop cycle - awful, Sandrena gel - worse and was really unwell on it, then 6 months of Zoladex and 2mg Elleste Solo which was very hit and miss too. This let up to total hysterectomy and BSO in June 2015.

I thought I was going to be a new woman and all the bad times would be behind me. Well, the op did get rid of most issues....however, I have not found a hrt that works consistently. Briefly tried the dot patch and went downhill and up to November last year I was on Premarin at varying strengths as this seemed (on the whole) to suit me better. But still no consistency. Flare ups of feeling rough and joint pains and stiffness all the time. Worse at end of week or after some light exercise (attemps at yoga, nothing intense!). Did trial of Tibolone for 3 months - helped with hair loss but quickly gained a stone and the joint pains remained and I didn't feel right.

I know what it feels like to feel good as I get occasional days where I feel great but it never lasts. For two weeks I have been on 3mg Progynova (E2)  2mg morning and 1mg night. This was at the recommendation of a specialist in Birmingham Women's hospital as she said I need more E. This has given me acid reflux, bloating, feeling sick and rough, headaches, sore breasts. And still the joint pain!

My gut feeling is that even though I keep being told I need more E, maybe it's side effects of hrt and I would be better on a low dose.

Just wondering if any of you have had similar issues, particularly with joint pains and have felt better reducing rather than increasing? Oh and I also take 20mg Citalopram and Vagifem twice per week. I don't have issues with hot sweats.

My hair is also falling out rapidly, no libido or energy which I thought more E was supposed to help?!

At the point of giving up on hrt and trying supplements of some kind.

Thanks for reading and I hope you are all starting to get some relief.

x

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on May 19, 2017, 08:59:17 AM
I didn't have ovaries removed during my hysterectomy when I was 32 but they failed within months and I sailed along merrily on max dose elleste solo for 13 years when suddenly everything crashed.  A scan revealed my failed ovaries had disintegrated and vanished.  So I'm in the same situation re womb and ovaries

Have you tried testosterone ? Drs and gynaes think the answer is throwing high dose oestrogen at us and for some (inc me those 13 years) lap it up and enjoy it but for a minority (now me inc) high oestrogen feels like poison.  Look at our threads on testosterone and see if you feel it could benefit.  Hair loss can be a sign of low testosterone but medics say high oestrogen grows hair, not in my experience it doesn't.  I'm on Tibolone at the moment and it stopped my hair loss continuing, but if you don't get on with it there's no point causing misery just for hair.  X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on May 19, 2017, 11:42:33 AM
Hi Lou44

If you have digestive issues on tablet oestrogen I would definitely have another try with transdermal products - either patches or gel - until you find one to suit you. yes you may have to play around with the dose somewhat.

I also agree with Annie0710 that the addition of testosterone may well help - and this is particularly important after surgical menopause.  You need to make sure your oestrogen replacement is adequate so as not to tip the balance towards tesosterone. Here is what is says on this website:

Role of testosterone after hysterectomy

If the ovaries are removed at the time of hysterectomy, as well as the estrogen level falling, there is also a 50% decrease in testosterone production. Some doctors recommend testosterone replacement along with estrogen replacement; testosterone helping energy levels, mood and libido. However testosterone replacement does not seem to be required by all and the ideal route and dose of testosterone for women is still being researched. It is therefore not routinely recommended following removal of the ovaries but can be considered for some women who do not fully benefit from estrogen replacement alone.

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/aftermeno.php

Can you ask for a referral to a gynaecologist as T replacement is off licence. Also have you had thyroid function tested , and are you having a good diet - so that vitamin and mineral levels are not sub-optimal or deficient?

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on May 24, 2017, 08:10:32 PM
Thanks Annie 0710.

Sounds like you're doing well on Tibolone?  It really improved my hair loss too but I piled on weight quickly, felt all puffed up and still felt unwell with joint pains.

I've actually now reduced the Progynova to 1mg morning and 1mg evening and feel better so far, still tired etc. but early days, joints seem to have been better so I think I may be on to something taking less rather than more as I was told to. I think you're right about taking higher oestrogen not necessarily improving hair. It also makes me wonder if its the hrt causing the joint pains rather than not enough E!

Has Tiboloen turned things around for you?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on May 24, 2017, 08:16:58 PM
Hi Hurdity

Thanks for the info. I know I would be better on transdermals but I was so ill when I tried them that I am loathe to risk going back there. Particularly the gels, I didn't absorb them properly and got into a right mess.

I just said to Annie, that the last few days I've reduced Progynova to 1mg morning and 1mg evening despite my specialist telling me to go up to 4mg per day if necessary to get rid of the joint pains. I may be wrong and next few weeks will tell, but I think she may be wrong and I actually need less!  I've even lost a couple of pounds easily in a few days since I reduced. I'm starting to think it was too high E that was causing pains but it's early days.

I'm with a gynae specialist now and she's open to testosterone - the only thing is that as I'm on orals, I don't think it would work, I think it gets mopped up/converted to E with orals to do with SHBG or something??

If the joint pains and stiffness can be reduced, that'll be a good start. Then would need to sort out hair loss, energy, libido etc somehow after.

I'm just wondering if other ladies are suffering and taking more and more E and not getting rid of pains and actually it may be worth them trying reducing rather than increasing.

thanks again x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on May 24, 2017, 11:20:55 PM
Hi Lou

I last took Tibolone Monday night, and this morning I used 1 pump oestrogel to see how I get on

About 6 weeks ago I started halving the Tibolone as the jitteriness was getting too much and night sweats were getting worse, which I could actually live with but the joint pain and stiffness was dragging me down and I was having too many highs and lows mood wise.  I literally could change within minutes then back again, nothing sinister but just waves.  Dry mouth comes on after lunchtime right until next day, dry eye no change really, just through the night still

I just can't seem to tolerate high doses of oestrogen yet it seems my body is crying out for it

So I'll give oestrogel a try then after that who knows if it doesn't work. 

Hope yours works out, Tibolone started so well for me x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on May 25, 2017, 04:39:14 PM
Hi Lou44

Did you not get on with patches either? Some women get on better with these than gel as you just stick the patch on and provided it is well stuck and no creams etc on skin, it can give a consistent dose. It is so much an individual response so perhaps give them a try again. Re the oral oestrogens and SHBG - yes I had read that too - and thanks for reminding me as I had forgotten (there is so much to all of this isn't there?). From what I gather I think testosterone binds preferentially to SHBG (and estradiol less so) so yes if you increase SHBG you will reduce free T. The endocrine control of all this I imagine is complex!

If you can try patch oestrogen ( or gel) now that you don't have to take progesterone and concentrate on getting our levels up then hopefully the addition of a little T might hopefully help.  I think blood tests can be beneficial for women in your position ( ie total hyster + BSO) to check that you are absorbing the oestrogen, if you are still getting symptoms.

It may be that when you first started trying to replace oestrogen soon after your op - your body was still adjusting to the drastic changes that took place - and if you try again - it may work better this time? However from reading others' experiences it can be tricky getting the right balance after surgical menopause.

Good luck anyway and let us know what you decide.

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on May 31, 2017, 05:35:19 PM
Thanks Hurdity and sorry for delayed reply.

I never got on with patches but then I couldn't get them to stick consistently either!

I'm thinking of getting some blood tests privately as NHS won't do them.

It certainly challenging...two years on and no further forward!

Will feedback if I try anything else.

Thanks again.



Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on June 01, 2017, 11:46:42 AM
Hi Ladies

I go in for my hysterectomy on the 8th June, so i have one week left. I'm trying to positive about it all and hope to feel much better afterwards but reading some of your stories i am now worried about it.  :-\ :'(

I am 55, still having periods but they are slowing down now. I have a large uterus with fibroids which has been causing heavy bleeding. I have also been suffering from migraines for many years, which i know just has to be hormone related.

I also have recurring bladder issues, with the dip stick thing saying there is large blood and protein in my urine. But when they send away the sample they can't grow bacteria so they tell me i don't have an infection...... Well i know something is going on  :-\

and last month after a scan i was told that i had inflamed diverticulitis.

I swear, there should be hazard tape around my bottom half of my body!  Caution Do Not Enter--- Danger!  ::)

My hopes are that after the hysterectomy things will settle down and i feel better.

Please someone give me some positive news about all of the mono/hysterectomy stuff  ???
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 01, 2017, 12:19:03 PM
Hi sandy,

I had a total hysterectomy last Friday and as soon as I came round from surgery I knew I'd done the right thing. Felt better almost instantly. Worst part of it all was the waiting. Watch out for wind pains, I found them more painful than anything else. Lots of peppermint tea has helped mine.

I start my HRT today, bit nervous but I'm looking forward to this new chapter.

Please, don't be scared. I was petrified but it's not as bad as what your imagination is telling you.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to help.

Lots of love xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on June 01, 2017, 04:04:41 PM
All the best with your op Sandy1 - are you keeping your ovaries?

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on June 01, 2017, 04:06:32 PM
Hope it works out for you Claireylou! Look forward to hearing how you get on with the HRT. I can't remember if you kept your ovaries or not? Whatever happens, your body has been through a major op and your hormones will be in turmoil for a while, so take it easy on yourself!

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 01, 2017, 04:08:35 PM
Thanks Hurdity. Unfortunately my ovaries had to go too so I'm straight into surgical menopause. Put my first patch on today so keeping everything crossed  :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on June 02, 2017, 08:39:17 AM
Hi sandy,

I had a total hysterectomy last Friday and as soon as I came round from surgery I knew I'd done the right thing. Felt better almost instantly. Worst part of it all was the waiting. Watch out for wind pains, I found them more painful than anything else. Lots of peppermint tea has helped mine.

I start my HRT today, bit nervous but I'm looking forward to this new chapter.

Please, don't be scared. I was petrified but it's not as bad as what your imagination is telling you.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to help.

Lots of love xxx

Thanks so much for that Claire, it's really good to hear some positive and from someone who has just had it done.  :)  I will be having my ovaries out too so not sure how that will or will not affect me.  :-\

Did you doc give you HRT patches before you went into hospital or did you visit doc so soon after your op?
I'm also looking forward to a new chapter and it would be lovely if i had company along the road.  :)

Hurdity  the ovaries are also being taken out

And today i started another period, it's like it wants to give me one last kick before it gets whipped away!!  >:(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 02, 2017, 09:13:10 AM
Hi sandy, my consultant gave me my patches whilst I was in hospital. She wanted me to wait a clear 5 days before I started using them, I think she wanted my levels to bottom out before I started them. Put my first one on yesterday and so far no problems. The only difference I felt after my op and before I started my patches was a slight increase in hot flushes and night sweats.

I really do feel that this is the right thing for my body. Yes I'm a bit sore and tired but once my strength is back I'm going to start living again  :)

Are you having keyhole surgery or a more traditional route xxx ?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on June 02, 2017, 10:54:20 AM
Glad to hear you're not experiencing to much horrible issues at the moment Claire  :)

I will be getting cut open in the traditional way, my uterus is to big for keyhole surgery  :'(  Did you have keyhole surgery? I believe it's a bit easier to recover from that. I wasn't given the option it was just 'Nope, not possible'

I wonder if i will get patches in the hospital, i doubt it. I have lived most of my life in Scotland but am now in Australia and it's not the same here. It's harder to find a good Doctor and if you do they move on to somewhere else and you never see them again.

I'm going into this with a positive attitude and i hope that it all goes to plan, even if there are difficult times ahead it can't be much worse than the last few years.  :o

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 02, 2017, 11:27:14 AM
Sandy a positive attitude is half the battle. As I was going into theatre, I kept telling myself how much better I'd feel afterwards, new chapter etc and I really do think it helps with recovery. I was very lucky to have keyhole surgery. The recovery time is a little quicker but as long as you're sensible you'll do alright.

Could you maybe get in to see a doc before your surgery to discuss HRT? If not then I'm sure you'll see your consultant on the morning of surgery to discuss.

If you can't sort HRT before surgery I wouldn't worry to much, you can get sorted after surgery when you're feeling well enough.

You are going to be just fine, the waiting is the worst bit. I promise xxx  :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 02, 2017, 12:44:08 PM
Good luck to you both Claire and Sandy...despite some of us having difficulties balancing hrt, the surgery really does help with all the other stuff. Just take it easy and don't rush things.  I always seemed to have issues with hormones but I'm sure most women do well once they find the right hrt. X

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 02, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
CALLING ALL LADIES WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH PATCHES.

I haven't had great experience with patches, tried Estraderm but that was before surgery to try and suppress cycle. After surgery almost 2 years ago, I tried Estradot and got into a right mess hormonally as it didn't stick well.

Please could you share your experiences of the best you have found, whether you find them more stable than tablets and which are the best at sticking. I wondered if a reservoir type would stick better but am unsure which brand this would be in the UK?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Anjia on June 02, 2017, 12:55:30 PM
Well said Lou and good luck girls Hrt can be a bit hard to sort out but not for everyone its tough for the first few weeks but you will  so feel so much better x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on June 02, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
Good luck Sandy, it seems different from doctor to doctor, I wasn't allowed HRT until 6 weeks after my op, as there is a higher risk of DVT until that time. I'm sure you'll be fine, just rest lots & listen to your body, it takes time to recover.

Lou I'm on Estradiol 50 they stick really well, they can be hard to remove, hate being left with sticky residue after which easily removed with baby oil!! Never been on tablets, mind you think I would forget to take them! Keep us posted! x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Taz2 on June 02, 2017, 11:19:34 PM
Hi Sandy - good luck with your op and I'm sure you will be fine.  Just wanted to ask why they are taking your ovaries? It is more usual to keep them nowadays unless they are diseased or you have a family history of ovarian cancer.

Read up on things as much as you can. Spend as much time as you need to recover properly too.

Taz x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on June 04, 2017, 07:54:10 PM
CALLING ALL LADIES WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH PATCHES.

I haven't had great experience with patches, tried Estraderm but that was before surgery to try and suppress cycle. After surgery almost 2 years ago, I tried Estradot and got into a right mess hormonally as it didn't stick well.

Please could you share your experiences of the best you have found, whether you find them more stable than tablets and which are the best at sticking. I wondered if a reservoir type would stick better but am unsure which brand this would be in the UK?

Thanks

Hi Lou44

I'm not surgical meno but use separate oestrogen patches as you will be doing. I have only ever used Estradot patches (with the exception of first 3 months when I tried the mahoosive Evorel 50!).

I do find they stick very well - so perhaps you had a bad batch? You need to make sure your skin is clean and dry and not used any shower creams or body lotions. I always stick them to my butt cheeks and hold them in place with warm fingers until they stick. I always use the same part of the body (alternate "cheeks"). Perhaps don't have too many baths and also when it's very hot in the summer they may slightly come loose if sitting in a chair in hot sun. Also I always make sure I have a feel every now and again and press them down again to make sure they stay stuck. Other women use Evorel and swear by them too!

Not sure that reservoir patches are prescribed any more - I think they are older technology perhaps?

Good luck anyway and let us know what works for you :)

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: sassy44 on June 07, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
Hi after an oopehrectomy and tubes removed I have tried a few hrts. Coil,sequi patches,conti patches an now on the femoston 2\10. Literally after the few days the anxiety has gone,the palpertations that I had whilst drifting of to sleep have gone,my mood has lifted and feel my sex drive Is also returning ;). I'm not sure if anyone else is o them but after a few rough months of trial and error I think I've got there. Anyone else on them. X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 11, 2017, 08:33:50 AM
Hi trying to catch up on here...

Thanks for the tips Hurdity...after frustrations with my new gp surgery and having a long chat with a lovely lady from the meno clinic I'm with (over 100 miles away)...they want me to try testosterone gel with the Progynova tablets I'm taking (2mg per day split morning and night). Because my gp will make things difficult, I'm driving there on Monday to collect it from their pharmacy! I had thought that testosterone supplementation didn't work with orals but I've been told now it does and it's Premarin it doesn't work with?!

Annie - are you now on testosterone and oestrogen gels and how's it going? Did you notice a positive change adding the Testosterone to Tibolone?

Like all of us trying something new, I'm so hoping that this is the missing link to rid me of the joint pains, muscle weakness, fatigue and lack of libido...even if I can start exercising without going downhill, I would feel better.

Will feedback on how it goes x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 11, 2017, 08:38:52 AM
Sassy that's great that you're getting relief  :)  Am I right in that its a combined hrt? Don't think they'd give me that as I don't have a womb to protect.

I was wondering about whether I need some progesterone too and if I hadn't got the offer of testosterone to start next week, I was at that desperate stage where I was going to go private and try the compounded mix as I was just at that point of "I can't keep doing this" + need to try a different approach. I know it's controversial but there seems to be a lot of women who have success with the more personalised, compounded mix, but at a cost! 😕
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on June 11, 2017, 09:14:57 AM
Hi trying to catch up on here...

Thanks for the tips Hurdity...after frustrations with my new gp surgery and having a long chat with a lovely lady from the meno clinic I'm with (over 100 miles away)...they want me to try testosterone gel with the Progynova tablets I'm taking (2mg per day split morning and night). Because my gp will make things difficult, I'm driving there on Monday to collect it from their pharmacy! I had thought that testosterone supplementation didn't work with orals but I've been told now it does and it's Premarin it doesn't work with?!

Annie - are you now on testosterone and oestrogen gels and how's it going? Did you notice a positive change adding the Testosterone to Tibolone?

Like all of us trying something new, I'm so hoping that this is the missing link to rid me of the joint pains, muscle weakness, fatigue and lack of libido...even if I can start exercising without going downhill, I would feel better.

Will feedback on how it goes x

From what I've read oral oestrogen (estradiol) increases Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) in a dose dependent manner and this presumably can reduce the efficacy (beneficial effect) of testosterone supplementation. A discussion paper on Intrinsa (formerly licensed T patches for women) that I read showed that although total testosterone did not vary between oral and transdermal oestrogen ( alongside T supplementation) the bio-available T was greater in the transdermal group - but because the group taking oral oestrogen consisted of women taking Premarin and also estradiol the  difference between oral and transdermal estradiol on the effectiveness of T was not clear. As you say - for those taking Premarin T had no effect.

Surely it is worth a try if this is what your specialists have recommended, but if you don't experience any benefit then transdermal estradiol would be the way to go based on its effects on SHBG above? My gynae also told me that the effects of T can take 4-5 months to be fully appreciated!

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on June 11, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Hi Lou

I didn't add testosterone to Tibolone.  Just took the tablet but halved the dose as I was getting the feeling of high oestrogen (racing heart/agitated etc) but halving the tablet gave me bad night sweats and joint stiffness/pain so I decided to quit altogether

One I've never tried is oestrogel, so started on one pump but night sweats started again so now on 2 pumps which seem ok along with a blob of testosterone

I've had such a busy week this week, literally if I wasn't at work I was babysitting but I managed really well, I seem to have stamina but also acceptable tiredness (which I don't mind if I've been busy)

Too early to tell re: testosterone but a bit of physical strength and wellbeing (and if course libido) are my goals
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 12, 2017, 08:34:39 PM


From what I've read oral oestrogen (estradiol) increases Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) in a dose dependent manner and this presumably can reduce the efficacy (beneficial effect) of testosterone supplementation. A discussion paper on Intrinsa (formerly licensed T patches for women) that I read showed that although total testosterone did not vary between oral and transdermal oestrogen ( alongside T supplementation) the bio-available T was greater in the transdermal group - but because the group taking oral oestrogen consisted of women taking Premarin and also estradiol the  difference between oral and transdermal estradiol on the effectiveness of T was not clear. As you say - for those taking Premarin T had no effect.

Surely it is worth a try if this is what your specialists have recommended, but if you don't experience any benefit then transdermal estradiol would be the way to go based on its effects on SHBG above? My gynae also told me that the effects of T can take 4-5 months to be fully appreciated!

Hurdity x
[/quote]

Thanks, yes definitely worth a try and may consider trying patches again in future.

Drove over 200 miles round trip today to collect the T!

Do you apply it on a night or morning? It's Tostran 2% I've been prescribed.. .one pump on inner thigh every other day.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 12, 2017, 08:38:23 PM
Hi Lou

I didn't add testosterone to Tibolone.  Just took the tablet but halved the dose as I was getting the feeling of high oestrogen (racing heart/agitated etc) but halving the tablet gave me bad night sweats and joint stiffness/pain so I decided to quit altogether

One I've never tried is oestrogel, so started on one pump but night sweats started again so now on 2 pumps which seem ok along with a blob of testosterone

I've had such a busy week this week, literally if I wasn't at work I was babysitting but I managed really well, I seem to have stamina but also acceptable tiredness (which I don't mind if I've been busy)

Too early to tell re: testosterone but a bit of physical strength and wellbeing (and if course libido) are my goals

Sounds promising Annie. Collected mine today. My aims are the same as yours along with getting rid if muscle and joint pains and stiffness.

Good luck x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on June 12, 2017, 08:40:10 PM
I apply mine morning, leave it to dry then get dressed so it minimises transfer risk
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Julation on June 23, 2017, 02:32:38 PM
Hello ladies, had hyster on July 2016 and still very angry about loosing one healthy ovary from endo surgery.  I am trying to get my hormones stabilized but its a painful rollercoaster. 

So after months of inappropriate Estrogel use (estrogel liberation mode is not good for E depleted hyster ladies, provoking intense plasma peaks after 4-6 hours, thing that we really need to avoid, unless we are already well balanced)  I was placed on Estradot .25 and Prometrium 100 (my estradiol bloodwork was 10!!!).  I am very slowly getting to .375 as I am super sensitive to Estradiol.  I can see small benefit of more constant liberation but have the feeling the estradiol is not high enough.  I still have meno vasomotor symptoms + estradiol side effects.  I also have the feeling that P is giving me that monstruous ear ringing (saw my ENT this week and he thinks its coming from still low E...).

I don't know.  Not funny at all.  I have the feeling they took part of my brain away during surgery.  And NO, they would NEVER do that to men.  I totally agree.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: abbyH on June 25, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
Just jumping in here with my experience.

Started Testosterone Gel  (Tostran) in March/April am now on
25mg patch x 2 a week
two small blobs of Tostran once a day

I feel...

Much better!
on the whole, mood, energy and body have nearly recovered to pre-hysterectomy levels
My body fat composition has changed as in, my legs, abdomen and hips have returned to their normal size - although my weight hasn't reduced that much

My mood has improved: I don't feel depressed anymore

I think overall the T gel has helped me enormously
But it has taken just over a year to get balanced, Surgical menopause is hard :(

hope this helps...happy to PM

Abby xx

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on June 27, 2017, 07:14:34 AM
Hi Sandy - good luck with your op and I'm sure you will be fine.  Just wanted to ask why they are taking your ovaries? It is more usual to keep them nowadays unless they are diseased or you have a family history of ovarian cancer.

Read up on things as much as you can. Spend as much time as you need to recover properly too.

Taz x

Hi Taz,  I had them removed to try to get rid of the horrible migrains which were making my life a misery.

Well it's been 19 days since the op, there has been a lot of up's and down's since then. Went in on a Thursday and came home on Saturday, went back in to hospital the day after because i had Pneumonia :( I was coughing up blood and bloody mucus.  :(  I am having the occasional good days when i feel like my old self again but there are more days when i feel so tired and sore. 

The wound has healed up great, no problem with that thankfully. But trying to stay asleep is awful as i keep waking up in pain, right now the worst of the pain is in my lower back, yes the tummy is very tender but the back pain is the worst.  I drove myself to the doctor today as i need to get some sleep so i needed some better pain pills. I know i shouldn't have been driving but there wasn't any other option and i went super early so there wasn't many people on the roads and i was back home again before the school run started and there were kids around.

So i'm hoping for a nice sleep tonight, everything is just 10 times worse through the day if you can't sleep through the night.

As i said it's only been 19 days and i still have a lot of healing to do. 

No sign of any hot flashes so far!  Do you think i might be one of the lucky ones or am i going to crash and burn with meno symptoms any day now???  :o
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 27, 2017, 07:22:05 AM
Hi Sandy, so lovely to hear your op went ok and you're recovering.

Awful that you had to go back into hospital though. I do hope you're feeling better?

Take things slowly, you really need to give yourself time to heal on the inside.

If you start to experience any meno symptoms could you get someone to drive you to docs to ask about HRT?

Rest rest rest! Let everyone take the strain for you  :)

Lots of love xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on June 27, 2017, 07:56:00 AM
Thank you Claireylou

I am sitting here with a blanket over my knees, watching the TV, i feel and look like an old woman!  But 2 days ago i was giving my husband cheek so good days and bad days.  ::)  Husband is working away this week so i don't have to try to put on a brave face and can just sit here in my pj's with no one watching me.

Before i left hospital the surgeon gave me a prescription for Climara (Oestradiol) - 25 Patches, i don't know what kind of HRT they are as i haven't even google'd them yet.

One thing i would like to know is why did my surgery take twice as long as normal, i was in there for 4 hours. When i asked the surgeon why, she just dismissed it as if it was nothing. I would like to know what the issue was because i have other problems with the downstairs dept and maybe my giant uterus was making them worse?

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Claireylou on June 27, 2017, 08:08:15 AM
Write down any questions or queries you have and then you can ask your consultant at your six week check. Don't be fobbed off, it's your body and you have a right to know.

I was started on oestradiol 100 five days after my surgery. I was expecting to ask to have them lowered as they are the maximum strength but so far (touch wood) no problems at all and they have stopped my joint aches and hot flushes.

The patches you've been given may be just right for you too but be prepared to ask for a higher dose if you feel you need it.

Make the most of your sofa time, before you know it you'll be at full speed again xxx  ;)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Taz2 on June 29, 2017, 07:25:41 PM
Please don't drive again - not only are you putting your recovery at risk but you are also (probably) not insured. I couldn't drive legally until eight weeks after mine although most insurers give the six week guideline. The small print in most insurance policies does state that they need to be informed of changes to your health and this includes surgery.

Try to take it easy as much as you can. These are the guidelines given to me by my consultant and also from the Hysterectomy UK site. Although you feel well there is lots of inner healing going on and it is really important not to strain your pelvic floor which can lead to prolapses which hysterectomised women are prone to. http://gallery.mailchimp.com/a5692c6457e86f0e2182630fa/files/sbs_recovery.pdf?utm_source=Free+Hysterectomy+Booklet&utm_campaign=30c61c525a-Booklet-14&utm_medium=email

I hope that your migraines disappear now. I hadn't heard that removing ovaries could cure them. I understand now why you wanted them gone having suffered from migraines myself in the past.

Taz x  :bighug:
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: yriches65 on July 07, 2017, 09:15:20 PM
Hi Ladies,

I am new to the site...

Full hysterectomy 12 years ago at 39... now 51...

Was on patches for the 1st 3 years... then started struggling GP's couldn't sort it so came of the HRT for the last 9 year... just had funny turns now and again..

Vaginal dryness got worse over the last 4 years... intercourse got more painful... so intercourse eventually stopped..

Been through hell the last year where started struggling with anxiety, depression, flushes, dizziness, rage, tics....list goes on..

Currently on 2 pumps of Estrogel and 5 mg testosterone....

Been told i don't need progesterone due the hysterectomy and no uterus, is this correct ?

At the moment struggling with anxiety and depression since taking the Estrogel ( 1 month in , testosterone 2 weeks in)

Also since taking the Estrogel.. have suffered with BV, Thrush like symptoms...

Don't know whether to increase the Estrogel or try small amount of Progesterone

Y x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on July 08, 2017, 06:26:21 AM
I replied on your other thread but forgot to say maybe you should also look into a form of extra oestrogen for the vaginal area, it will keep things lubricated and less irritated
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: danzily on July 09, 2017, 08:33:09 PM
Hello Ladies - I am pleased to have found this site.  I am hoping my "situation" can be recognised by some and I am open to suggestions.  I had a Total Hysterectomy 7 years ago (when I was 48 years old), which immediately put me into surgical menopause.  We did try sex before my 8 weeks checkup and have had sex since, (painfully I add), however, after gaining quite a few "stones" in weight, and the constant flushes at any intimacy, Sex became a thing of the past.  In April 2015 after a holiday where I felt a fat frump, when my Husband didn't even make any attempt to initiate any intimacy (which is unusual for holidays), I came home depressed but determined I would NOT let anyone make me feel like that again.  I lost 5 stones in weight and felt great.  It helped my flushes too.  However, since I am now back into a size 10/12 my Husband appears to be interested again but I`m afraid " that boat has floated" for me now.  I have no desire whatsoever to have sex with him or anyone else.  I have told him that if he wants that sort of a relationship (we`ve been married 34 years), that he would need to go elsewhere.  He obviously said it didn't matter to him and that he didn't want to "go anywhere else" for it.  However, he regularly now wants me to relieve him without penetration.  I really do not want this as it hurts me so much to know that 1) he didn't want me when I was fat, 2) I can not get aroused to enjoy any intimacy.  So it puts me in a bad mood for days - the fact he has been "satisfied", and I`m just getting more and more frustrated.  I can`t see any options open to me and I really don't want us to split up, but I fear that if this continues, I will explode and cause more harm than good.  Please don't say "try talking" to him.  I am not good at opening up around these matters and thought I had addressed the issues when I was brave enough to tell him that I could not give him that kind of relationship anymore.  I have tried Lubricants  thinking if things were not as dry - I would feel more like it, but all that happens is I get an infection from the Lube.  I'm really not sure what else to do.  My GP did prescribe Estradol vaginal suppositories but as there is Breast Cancer in the family I am really loathed to try anything hormone related, (especially as I was unable to take the Contraceptive Pill from the age of 25)  I really wish I hadn't agreed to the Hysterectomy as I feel it has ruined my life and my Marriage.  Am I being selfish?   :'( 
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on July 09, 2017, 09:02:45 PM
I would suggest trying hrt, there's options like Tibolone, oestrogen and testosterone etc

Having no ovaries doesn't help with the libido but if you're not comfortable to have hrt I don't know what else to suggest

My libido went down the pan too after having a really high Sex drive.  Testosterone and then Tibolone gave me back at least the chance to orgasm again but I've recently been using Tostran and it might just be a temporary phase but I'm enjoying thinking about Sex again and initiating it.  It's so difficult because for men their libido stays the same so must be really confusing for them seeing our changes
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: paisley on July 10, 2017, 10:50:50 AM
I would definitely try marriage counseling. Even if you don't like opening up to anyone you can't go on like that & need an independent unbiased professional person to help.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tempest on July 11, 2017, 02:36:16 PM
First of all Danzily - welcome!!!

And secondly - WELL DONE YOU on navigating surgical menopause succesfully AND losing weight!!! Wow, girl - do you relise how tough both of those things are? Weight loss for us surgical ladies is EXTREMELY difficult at times!!

As for libido - this is tricky! I can see how you feel totally about Hubby's rejection when you were heavier - and that will stick with you, I should think!

I can't advise how to get the 'urge' back other than to use HRT and added testosterone but you emphatically don't want to do that, and I respect that! I'm not on HRT at all either and it hasn't dented my libido but dyness is an issue. I use the 'YES' VM moisturiser twice per day and they do a great lubricant too - all are 95% organic and were recommended by my fantastic Consultant Gynaecologist.

I hope this helps a bit - and can I just say again how brilliant you are for your achievements! Much love. xxxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sandy1 on July 12, 2017, 02:22:23 AM
First of all Danzily - welcome!!!

 I'm not on HRT at all either and it hasn't dented my libido but dyness is an issue. I use the 'YES' VM moisturiser twice per day and they do a great lubricant too - all are 95% organic and were recommended by my fantastic Consultant Gynaecologist.



Oh thank you Tempest, for saying you are not on HRT and you libido is doing okay :)  This is what i am hoping for for me.  After reading what the other ladies are going through i just wanted to cry  :'( 

I know i am just out of surgery (5 weeks now), but i really needed to know that i could/will be okay and that my marriage could/will survive. I was getting worried and stressed out about it all.  :'(  I guess there is always the bad side of hysterectomy and those that have survived and are happy don't post much on the internet.  I wish they would, just to let us know that it doesn't have to be the end of everything.

My son died 9 years ago and if my marriage can survive that, then i think we should be okay.

I think i may be getting some symptoms now of having no ovaries, I will be sitting on the couch at night and feel a warmth spread from my middle body outwards. I even felt it on my face and scalp! It wasn't to bad and i hope it doesn't get worse, but i don't flush like some ladies do maybe that's because i have an olive completion.  :-\

Every day is an adventure!  ::)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on July 12, 2017, 03:38:56 PM
Hi Sandy, I had my hysterectomy with bilateral salpingo oophorectomy in Dec last year, I'm very lucky I have a very supportive hubby. It certainly doesn't have to be the end of everything, I guess what you're saying about being happy & survived and not posting sounds like me! I'm happy as I'm not suffering from crippling effects of severe PMS anymore, but on downside menopause hasn't affected me too much, but last 3 weeks I've had a long list of issues, everything just seems to come and go!!! Hope works out for you x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: danzily on July 12, 2017, 08:39:15 PM
Thank you to everyone for your comments.  I am trying to boost my mood with St John`s Wort and I think it is helping (when I remember to take it)!   My theory is - the GP prescribe anti-depressants for Flushes so I`m hoping it will have similar effect.  Once my mood improves, I`m hoping other things will improve too.... wish me luck.  And best wishes to everyone on their Journey through Surgical Menopause. If I can help with any advice I am happy to help as I am 7 years into my journey! :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on July 13, 2017, 07:43:58 PM
Hello Danzily

I haven't had a hysterectomy. But I do take HRT. I am on  pumps of gel + a blob of testim gel every day. Strangely since starting HRT my libido has flattened out quite a bit. But here's the really odd thing, I can still orgasm very easily and they're much stronger!

I think it must be the testim gel at work? You're unlikely to get it via your GP, but you could see a specialist and give it a try?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: doolou on August 02, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Good evening ladies.  I had LAVH and BSO I January 2016. After a long battle with the local gynae department,  I was diagnosed with prolapse in October after paying to see my original surgeon privately.  So here I am 4 month post op small cycstocele,  larger rectocele,  and further endometriosis removed.  I was using evorel 50 before my last op, and feeling good, but as they found more endo, so am having to take combined again,  so 11 weeks into Femseven Conti.  I feel so tired,  no energy,  quite emotional,  and I feel so stiff.   I tried numerous combined tablets last year,  premarin, kliovance,  elleste duet conti, and the progesterone part of these made me feel dreadful.  I feel better on Femseven Conti except for above.  Im a bit scared of changing yet again and feeling worse,  but im so tired.  Any suggestions ladies, i would be  so grateful, as I'm going back to see my GP tomorrow.  Oh.....I've started using vagifem again, and think things are settling down,  although full intercourse is too painful,  but that's another issue :(. Thank you for reading x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Carj on August 19, 2017, 05:49:05 PM
Hello all, I had a TAH/BSO 7 weeks ago, and have been recovering well. My GP prescribed Evorel 50 patches 2 weeks post op, and directed me to this website. Within a week I was sleeping better and was surprised at how well I felt. However, then I started having very broken sleep again and feeling quite anxious/over thinking things.
My GP suggested increasing to Evorel 75, and when I asked about blood tests to check levels she said that they prefer to go by symptoms rather than tests.
Not convinced, I decided to have a private blood test, and anticipating low levels, planned to increase to Evorel 75 today (I change patches on Saturday mornings and Tuesday evenings).
When I got the result I was surprised that my oestradiol reading was 1187. Now I'm wondering if my symptoms were from high oestrogen not low.  Knowing that my GP doesn't favour blood tests, and not having any menopause clinics in Wales, I'm thinking I should find a self referral private clinic.
Does anyone have any advice?  I feel I could just sit and cry today. My daughter is getting married on Thursday and all I wanted to do at her dress fitting today was cry and feel sorry for myself, and then I felt totally selfish because it's her big day.
I feel so horribly awful 😞
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: paisley on August 20, 2017, 08:26:29 AM
Hi 7 weeks is still really early to feel stable from the operation. Your body will still be up & down with all the hormonal upheaval. Give yourself time to heal & stabilize. That does sound a high level though
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on August 20, 2017, 05:20:53 PM
So sorry to hear you are feeling rough carj - but I do agree with paisley - that you will still be recovering from your operation and your hormones will be going haywire. I'm not sure exactly what happens to oestrogen levels immediately following TAH and BSO - whether they plummet almost immediately or still fluctuate as the endocrine system stabilises - but yes that does sound like a high level, if accurate. Where was the blood test taken from (on your body)  in relation to the patch location, and also how long since you had changed your patch? Please can you check the units of measurement for your oestrogen on the test results - was it 1187 pmol/l (definitely not 118.7 or something else?)

I know this will be hard given your hormonal and therefore emotional turmoil, but are you able for your daughter's sake to summon up enough positivity/energy from somewhere just for these next few days for her sake and then concentrate on sorting yourself out after her wedding? Not long now! It will take some time for your hormones to stabilise and to arrive at the right combination for you, so perhaps best to wait a little longer. You are also probably feeling under stress anyway - as mother of the bride - which will be adding to your anxiety.

You shouldn't really need to go to a private clinic - just hang in there if you can and revisit next weekend?

I hope the wedding goes really well and that you are able to enjoy it!!  :foryou:

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Carj on August 20, 2017, 07:20:59 PM
I'm feeling less hysterical today, thankfully.
Thanks for your replies. I guess 7 weeks is only a short time really, and I'm probably expecting too much. I checked the blood results again and the figure is definitely correct. The blood was taken from the same side of the body as the patch, which was on my hip, and due to be changed that evening.
I have spent lots of time reading about patches today and didn't realise that I should stick to either abdomen or behind. I've been alternating so probably causing my own problems. Will stick to outer thigh from now on and see how I feel in another few weeks.
Hair (colour) and nails appointments tomorrow so I'm sure I'll feel much better after an afternoon of pampering.
X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on September 21, 2017, 08:45:46 PM
Hi Joe's Mum, did you go back on the implants in the end? What dose were you on when you felt well? Just wondering why they took you off them?

I'm on first implant and think it's run out after a month! Do they take a while?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Charlotte78 on May 07, 2018, 11:09:13 AM
Hi I'm really stuck with what to do so was hoping someone might have some ideas!
I had a total hysterectomy in Oct 2014 and had both ovaries removed due to pre cancer cells found in my womb. I wasn't given any choice and had no idea what would happen to me post opp.
Even though I was fit and healthy pre op recovery was incredibly slow. I saw my consultant once after the op but she said she didn't have time to discuss HRT and that was gp department. Gp asked what consultant said to do! She then looked in her book and prescribed oestrogen tablets, I can't remember dose but she said low.
I felt terrible for months. I went back after 4/5 months and asked for patches as I read these might help. The gp agreed but also referred my to mental health. After a 6 month wait I had cbt. To cut a long story a bit shorter basically everytime I go to gp with anything I seem to be fobbed of. I was prescribed SSRI 2 years ago and spend a year feeling sick all the time and I gained 2 stone. Told I must be comfort eating....I wasn't! I stopped taking them a year ago.
My symptom are:
Exhausted all the time, even after I've slept, however also insomnia but the exhaustion is more than just being tired. I literally feel like I can't get up sometimes and this is causing huge problems in my marriage.
Anxiety
Depression
Rage
Rashes
Crawling skin
Dry skin
Flacking nails
Very hot overall or very cold but not hot flushes
Achy joints, some very painful
Awful headaches
Queasy feeling
Very thirsty

I've changed my diet so its organic plant based. I make myself walk outside, do resistance training, Pilates although I feel totally exhausted after I've exercise and feel like I need to lay down.

I have my daughter at home full time as there is no suitable school place for her due to her SEN, so I'm responsible for her education. I don't have family support and no local real friends. Therefore this situation can't go on.

I've been to gp lots of times and was referred however the referral last year went to someone who knew nothing about surgical menopause and again just looked in a book for HRT ideas. She did blood tests for thyroid, vit d etc which all came back fine. Refused to test hormone levels as said these fluctuate so no point. She mainly discussed my mental health and basically made out again it was depression.

I have suffered with depression but this is not depression, have have days where I feel depressed but that because I can't see a solution.

I really want my HRT sorting but gp not prepared to discuss as basically they don't know enough about it and in my area a gp appointment is minimum 6 weeks wait (unless emergency). I feel like I need testosterone but no one will consider that. I also feel the joint issue should be taken more seriously, like with a bone density scan. The gp said it'll be a bit of fibromyalgia.

I was going to try and self refer (and pay) Dr Ayres at Leeds Nuffield but just read she's against testosterone for women.

Help.....
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mary G on May 07, 2018, 11:23:21 AM
Sorry you have been left to sort this out for yourself although it's not unusual.

I would go straight to Professor Studd.   He will definitely prescribe testosterone and Oestrogel (you rub it on your skin) which is very dose flexible giving you maximum control over your HRT regime.   Ring his office tomorrow and try and arrange a telephone consultation, it will be much quicker -  tell his secretary it's urgent.   He will write to you doctor and you should be able to get your HRT on the NHS thereafter.

I definitely wouldn't be prepared to wait 6 weeks and it's a disgrace that you have been left with those debilitating symptoms by people who clearly don't know what they are doing.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Charlotte78 on May 07, 2018, 12:28:43 PM
Thank you so much for replying. I feel so alone in this!
I will do as you suggest x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Mary G on May 07, 2018, 01:19:38 PM
Charlotte, you are not alone, my doctor more or less told me to sod off.   With hindsight, I'm glad I didn't persevere with them because they knew nothing about HRT so I bought it myself in Spain.   I then went to Professor Studd and I'm very glad I did because he introduced me to Oestrogel and testosterone.

I forgot to mention that Professor Studd has two other specialists working with him now, namely, Dr Mike Savvas and Mr Neale Watson, both of whom are excellent so you might be able to get a telephone consultation more quickly if you are prepared to see one or other of them.

I really hope you can get this resolved very soon, hopefully this week.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on May 07, 2018, 01:41:32 PM
Hi Charlotte, what an appalling situation, in this day and age it's even more disgraceful

I had your symptoms and was forever fobbed off.  Then I was prescribed testosterone along with oestrogen and it turned my life around, I'll never be quite who I was but I'll happily settle for the new me.  I moved home and town and the new gp has wiped my testosterone off my list until he gets the say so from a gynae he chooses.  I was gutted and am on a private consult waiting list to hopefully get it reinstated.  It's disgusting we have to pay but unfortunately it's not rare

Good luck x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Charlotte78 on May 07, 2018, 01:47:04 PM
That terrible. I hate that gp can kind of play God with our lives. If it was working for you what right do they have to stop you having it?
After 3 1/2 years of feeling terrible I really think I need to try testosterone too! X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Dotty on May 07, 2018, 01:55:43 PM
There are a list of menopause clinics in the menus on this page.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Katymac on November 07, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
I've been warned not to post on here because it's so old - but hopefully one of your guys will still be able to help me and if not? Well I tried  ;)

I had both my ovaries and my remaining fallopian tube removed on 12th October & then the hospital abandoned me!  My wonderful GP is dealing with several crisies in my body but asked me tocome on here and find out what HRT I need and want. 

I had started peri in the 18m before my op went to the GP with a change in bowel habits and indegstion and ended up with an ovarian cyst being diagnosed

So I want a Dexa scan as I am dairy free - & I think I am heading more to gels - I don't always absorb tablets and capsules and I am often allergic to plasters/adhesives.

I am in Ipswich so I think my nearest clinic is in Bury - should I ask to see them or see how it goes with the GP?

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on November 07, 2018, 05:39:29 PM
Hi Katy, Just seen your post on this old thread. I was in the same position as you 2 years ago and was also 'abandoned' by my gynaecologist. After a couple of weeks I had what I can only describe as a hormone crash, you can read the details on this thread very early on. It must have thrown out Cortisol, serotonin and all the rest of my hormones. The gynae would not accept that it was due to removal of oestrogen from my system, he reluctantly gave me Femoston, I gradually got back to normal BUT then major headaches which obviously hit once my levels had built back up, think it was the synthetic prog. The gynae would not respond to my messages. I was desperate and went private to a meno specialist who was fantastic, I went on to the oestrdot patches (I appreciate you may not be able to use these, but you could try the gel?) and took around 8 weeks to sort the right dose. I then introduced the prog, utrogestan 100mg once I was completely comfortable with the oestrogen dose.

Hope this helps a little,
Rx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Katymac on November 07, 2018, 08:19:34 PM
Thanks so much for replying - everyone has been so helpful

My GP is being great but the idea that I can work out what I need or want to take is a bit daunting

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on November 08, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
After doing so well on Everol 75, I suddenly started feeling pretty awful, also fed up with very low libido, lack of energy, aches and pain in my muscles + joints & hardly sleeping, I've just been prescribed Tibolone, will start tomorrow but I'm very apprehensive, will see how it goes.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: CLKD on November 08, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Do you take any pain relief for the aches and pains?  As oestrogen levels drop ........
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on November 08, 2018, 03:58:13 PM
No CKLD I didn't, I'm one of those that hates taking painkillers and when I do it's usually when pain is too much!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on November 08, 2018, 04:43:47 PM
Hello. I joined forum recently and a lovely lady advised me to seek out this thread and refresh it.
I am 53. I had a cyst on ovary and was referred to gynae oncologist by gynae who thought that because of my age we should err on the side of caution.
I was told it didn't look like ccancer on mri but they couldnt be 100 per cent until surgery.andt that it was large and would not get smaller.

B4 surgery I was still having regular periods. I was not given the option to keep the healthy ovary something I an bow angry about. But at the time the fear of cancer is so great you just don't want to take any chances.
I had BSO 11 weeks ago today.they perforated my uterus during surgery so I had to stay in and go on antibiotics
2 weeks later I saw the consultant who said great news it was a large Dermoid and there was no evidence of cancer. Of course I was very grateful for that but
I have to say I feel like I'm in a nightmare and can't wake up.
I'm on femseven sequin patches but I don't think I'm absorbing well as I have every single symptom of hormone defficiancy.
The first 4 weeks I was ok.then I just crashed into hell.
I have the worst anxiety I've ever had in my life it is crippling and relentless. I don't want to go out and the last couple of days have confined myself to my bedroom not even able to go into other rooms in the flat. I feel paralysed by it. I feel utter panic when the phone rings I don't want to speak to anyone cos I can't hide the state in in.i haven't slept or eaten in 2 days despite the fact that a few days ago I had forced myself to eat 3 meals and had felt a bit stronger physically because of that.
I feel sick I feel a crushing weight and a horrible churning heat in my tummy. When I try to think of nice things I feel nothing. I feel like my life is over. I just want to sleep. I've taken 2 phenegran today and still not slept. I have such a feeling of fear and uneasiness and that nothing is ever gonna be the same again.
My thoughts are on an intrusive loop of regret and disbelief that I am ruined forever and that I have to say goodbye to the person I was a matter of 3 months ago.
Sorry to go on. I have posted a bit more positive a couple odmf days ago trying to bring myself out of it but I can't. I'm so scared my family are going to suspect and want to get me out to smdo things but they don't understand I can't think of or concentrate on anything else and co have absolutely nothing to say to anyone except what I've just said here.
It sounds silly but I live alone with my little cat and she is normally a great comfort to me but I looked at her today as she is lying next to me and i felt nothing.nothing seems to matter anymore.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on November 08, 2018, 08:36:47 PM
Oh you poor thing :-(

I think you need to change your hrt, try am oestrogen gel and progesterone pessary and maybe broach the subject with your gp about testosterone

The beauty of oestrogen gel is that you can increase the dose yourself

I really hope you start to feel better xx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on November 13, 2018, 02:23:34 PM
Thank you so much.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Kathleen on November 13, 2018, 07:16:13 PM
Hello Tc and welcome to the forum.

As you know all your symptoms are due to hormone deficiency and although sudden and severe in your case many of us have similar stories to tell.. I'm so sorry that you've been put in this position but you are not alone. The regime suggested by Annie0710 is the most popular and is easily prescribed by your GP.  If your doctor is unfamiliar with this HRT be sure to ask for Oestrogel and Utrogestan which is listed as micronised progesterone.

It beggars belief that you have been left to suffer so much and I hope you manage to get effective treatment soon.

Wishing you well and please keep us updated.

K.

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on November 13, 2018, 08:13:38 PM
Thank you Kathleen.today has been a better day. I'm beginning to think that the progesterone phase is when I feel worse.
The patches haven't helped with what I can only describe as chronic vaginal dryness. I bought some reopens but without wanting to sound like I'm giving too much info it was even hard to insert.
It's not my major problem but the discomfort is adding to my misery.
I guess I'm not getting enough estro from the patches because my skin is generally very dry and even my eyes feel dry!
My hot flushes have decreased tho
Thank you for taking time to reply I hope you are well and
Thanks Annie I will look into the regimen you suggested.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on November 13, 2018, 08:15:55 PM
Oops I meant replens not reopens haha what an appropriate predictive text!!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Annie0710 on November 14, 2018, 10:38:55 AM
lol reopens yes very appropriate!

Ask for vagifem, you can use it alongside normal hrt, it's oestrogen vaginal pessaries with an aplicator x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on November 15, 2018, 11:31:25 PM
Thanks. I've read about that and also ovestin. Not sure if the ingredients are different but I think vagifem is a suppositry and ovestin a cream. I will ask about it. Thanks. Hope you are well.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: LJB12 on November 25, 2018, 07:00:43 PM
Yorkshire Girl - how are you getting on?

I have been happy on Evorel 75, Mirena, Testim and vagifem since my BSO in December 2015, but suddenly at the start of October I started feeling exactly as you have described. Lack of energy, aching, sudden loss of interest in things I used to love (the gym), disturbed sleep, cold flashes.

I thought it could be the progesterone in the Mirena running out. This happened to me pre-op when my Mirena ran out, and I knew immediately.

Saw my meno specialist at Mr Panay's clinic who said it's much more likely low estrogen and said I might be in peri-menopause as I'm now 41. That confused me because I thought I was in complete and utter surgical menopause. Do I have to have a natural one too?!

She suggested I use a cut up patch to put me to 100mcg estrogen. Within 1 day I felt immensely better, but 4 days later (including a hard workout at the gym) I crashed back down to even lower than I was before. This was last Wednesday. On Friday night I put on a 1/2 patch as well to make 112.5mcg and I felt not too bad Saturday, but today pretty fed up.

I don't get how I can be so level and good for 3 years then so suddenly crash.



quote author=Yorkshire Girl link=topic=34701.msg657477#msg657477 date=1541688062]
After doing so well on Everol 75, I suddenly started feeling pretty awful, also fed up with very low libido, lack of energy, aches and pain in my muscles + joints & hardly sleeping, I've just been prescribed Tibolone, will start tomorrow but I'm very apprehensive, will see how it goes.
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on December 16, 2018, 09:12:47 PM
LJB12
Not great, I've now been on Tibolone for around 5-6 weeks the only thing it's helped with is my aches and pains. I'm going to give it the 3 months, then it will be back to dr's for review and if there is no change I will go back on my everol patches and ask for the 100mcg.
How are you getting on now?

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on June 26, 2019, 09:34:58 PM
Hi everyone, are any of you still lurking on this thread?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on June 27, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
Hiya Lou. First time on this thread but I've  been on the forum since my BSO in late August last year.

I was hoping this thread would get bumped or a new one started. I didnt know whether to start one myself.

Xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on June 27, 2019, 06:14:34 PM
I still lurk on this thread.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sammiejane on September 12, 2019, 10:35:55 AM
Hi ladies please help

I had a total hysterectomy and oopherectomy in 2014 age 35 for severe pelvic pain and adeyonmeosis why they took my healthy ovaries I have no idea !

Anyway have had no meno Symtoms for over 4 yrs then in July of 2018 I was hit with vaginal dampness but nothing else occasional hot flush but I managed these

I decided that the dampness must be calmer for having no HRT all that time and I did try it straight after my op but the one patch didn't suit me and GP just dismissed trying others so I went cold turkey ! Anyway forward to September 2018 I decided I would try it again and a different doctor perscribed the same patch as before which was elleste solo mx40 but I thought maybe I would react different now 4 or so years later and was fine intill 5 weeks into taking it then the diadem effects hit chest pain breathlessness and I could raise my arms that felt so heavy I had headaches blurry vision so GP said stop them and referrred me to meno specialist and gyno for the dampness.

I saw gyno first and they perscribed vagifem and suggested the dampness was VA as no prolapse present so was now taking vagifem nothing else and 5 weeks into taking this my hair started shedding and thinning I was gutted because my hair did the opposite after my op and went really think and grew dead quick wether I had slightly higher testosterone I don't know

So I swapped the vagifem to Ovestin and am still on that then on dec 25th 2018 started estrogel 2 pumps but my hair is even thinner mainly scalp thinning and I don't feel brilliant to be honest have now gained stone in weight losing my hair can't sleep Terrible aniexty depression. Low confidence and prior to started HRT I had actually lost weight after my op by stone and half I'm constantly bloated constipated and sluggish

I get exessive sweating clamy feet which gyno and GP have said hormone imbalance between estrogen and progesterone and testosterone.

Is the estrogel causing my hairloss ?

Also I'm not obsorbing the gel well even though I felt it was working for my VA symtoms so I'm now stuck what to do

I was thinking about the contraceptive pill combined as had no issues on this before .

Do I increase gel and add progesterone to balance out the estrogen effects ?

Or swap to a patch only estradot

Or combine estradot patch with utrogestan and see if hairloss stops

Can you ladies advise have you had hairloss on estrogel and utrogestan ?
Estrogel only ?
Estradot only ?
And estradot and utrogestan ?

Thank you
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on September 12, 2019, 03:51:42 PM
Blimey Sammiejane I'm not going to be much help, just wanted to say I really hope you get it all sorted with the right medication. I have had none of those symptoms and I've had a total hysterectomy and oophorectomy. I expect you know there is no need to take progesterone. Hopefully someone else with more experience will be along with some help. Good luck x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 13, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
Hi all

I am new to this site, sorry if this post is so long  ..... I had a total hysterectomy nine years ago and went straight into surgical menopause.  I was never offered HRT. 
I have suffered with hot flushes with aura ( I know when one is coming as I feel nauseous & weak/faint) then the heat rises.  I also suffer with brain fog, bloating, anxiety, depression & lightheadedness.

I suffered with anxiety before I had an hysterectomy & I took antidepressants from 2003 to 2012.  In the end I took myself off them as the weight I gained on them really depressed me.  I went from a slim size 14 to a size 18/20.

So I have been suffering with the hot flushes etc for 9 years!  Hoping they would go away. 

I went to see my Doctor a few weeks ago and she mentioned taking HRT.  But I have a sister that has had breast cancer and there is a great deal of heart problems in my family too.  Both my parents, my brother, his 2 son's, my grandfather, 2 aunts and a uncle.  Also I just turned 60 last month.  So you can see why I'm hesitant to take it.

My Doctor then wrote to a Consultant in Gynaecology because of my concerns and she suggested I try 0.06% oestradiol gel 2 pumps daily.

I hear so many conflicting views.  Some gain weight, others don't, some women feel great on it, others don't etc. 
I've put up with it for 9 years, maybe I should ride it out?  I'm so confused.

I'd like to add that 2 years ago I had my thyroid checked and was told it was border line.  I am due to have it checked again next week.  Should I wait to see what those results are before starting HRT?  If I decide to go ahead.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joaniepat on September 13, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
Hi atherinica, welcome to the forum.

This is just to say that you can always start low with the gel, do one pump a week for a couple of weeks until you get used to it, then increase to two. Transdermal is quite safe as it doesn't go through the liver, and you (and I) are lucky in not needing progesterone. I'm sure you'll be fine, and you have suffered quite long enough with the flushes. Just give it a bit of time to sort out that and the other symptoms.

Let us know how you get on with the thyroid check next week.

Best wishes,

JP x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 13, 2019, 03:14:55 PM
Hi atherinica, welcome to the forum.

This is just to say that you can always start low with the gel, do one pump a week for a couple of weeks until you get used to it, then increase to two. Transdermal is quite safe as it doesn't go through the liver, and you (and I) are lucky in not needing progesterone. I'm sure you'll be fine, and you have suffered quite long enough with the flushes. Just give it a bit of time to sort out that and the other symptoms.

Let us know how you get on with the thyroid check next week.

Best wishes,

JP x

Hi JP

Thank you for the welcome  :)

That is a good idea to start low.  Do you use oestradiol gel yourself?

atherineca x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joaniepat on September 13, 2019, 05:05:32 PM
Atherineca, I have used Oestrogel in the past, and was told to use one pump for two weeks to start with, before increasing to two. There are loads of people on here who get on fine with it and like it's flexibility, as you can even go up by half pumps.

JP x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 13, 2019, 06:35:24 PM
Thank you JP  :) x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sammiejane on September 13, 2019, 07:50:14 PM
Hi tempest

Could u let me know what hrt regime u are on .

Thanks
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Winterose on September 13, 2019, 08:11:42 PM
Atherenica

I was borderline for thyroid and my doctor said she treated borderline cases as it stopped heart issues later on. Within 6 months all my joint pains were gone and body temp increased from average of 34 to 36. I had hysterectomy but insisted on keeping overies . It was 14 years ago and I use evorel patches
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 13, 2019, 08:37:28 PM
Hi Winterose

Thank you ... That's interesting to know.  Could you tell me what medication you took/take for your thyroid please?

atherineca
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: bear on September 17, 2019, 06:26:27 PM
Hi girls,
 
I came across this article today and I thought this might be a promising neurotherapy for all surgical menopausal ladies who struggle with anxiety, depression, brain fog, memory issues. It's a prodrug α-DHED that is converted to αE2 in the brain, showing antidepressant-like effects in mice, without the need to use progestogens, because it doesn't act in the uterus.
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6582959/

BeaR.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on September 17, 2019, 06:52:14 PM
Thanks bear - what is the drug marketed as?

Also if it has oestrogen effects on the brain without effects on the uterus and therefore no progestogens needed - then the new medication may be of interest to all women who suffer with residual anxiety and depression and for whom HRT is either contraindicated or who have persistent symptoms even with HRT, as well as those who are in surgical menopause.

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: bear on September 17, 2019, 08:06:14 PM
Hi Hurdity,

The drug (DHED) has not been marketed yet. The authors have a small company in Texas, Agypharma. They're probably waiting to sell their idea to a big pharma company.

https://twitter.com/agypharma
https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/agypharma-llc

They also have published this article on the beta version of their drug for hot flushes:

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30721?platform=oscar&draft=journal

BeaR.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Maxwin on September 18, 2019, 12:36:26 PM
Hi Atherineca, we could be twins!  I also turned 60 last month and had total hysterectomy 9 years ago and relate very well to being plunged into a surgical meno :(   I do take very low dose hrt patch everol 25 and although I do still get night sweats when I did try to come off it I realised it definitely takes the edge of them, so for me I'm staying on hrt.  I also have underactive thyroid and take one 50 microgram levothyroxine tablet a day.  It really is such personal choice and a lot of thyroid symptoms mirror menop ones so its even more difficult to know whats going on.  All I can say is good luck I really hope you find a balance.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 20, 2019, 08:09:46 PM
Hi Maxwin

Thank you for replying to my post  :) 
Have you been on HRT since your hysterectomy?  I don't really have the night sweats but have several flushes a day & like I said in my post I feel nauseous and weak with them :(
I did have my Thyroid bloods taken a few days ago, I meant to phone the surgery for the result today but I forgot.  How long have you been taking the Thyroid medication too?
A few friends of mine who are slightly older, sailed through the menopause so they don't understand what some of us go through. It's not fair!  :(

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Maxwin on September 21, 2019, 08:41:20 AM
Hi Atherineca, I waited approx. 3 months after my op before taking hrt to let my body settle and see how I was coping! Well back to work was looming and I was a sleepless sweaty tearful mess and knew I wouldn't cope at work and within 5 days of using hrt I had my first 'good' sleep.  It was about same time for thyroid meds as well so for both it's been nearly 9 years now.  I know what you mean about other ladies comments even someone in my family said you don't need hrt its a natural process :( well not for us.  I do still get few hot flushes and yes I also feel sicky and light headed.  Two friends have gone down the anti dep route rather than take hrt and they have said the meds have helped with symptoms.  It really is a minefield out there and when I started taking hrt never thought I would still be on it 9 years later.  I work (part time) help out with grandchildren and elderly relatives and just need to feel ok each day.  Retirement is long way off so I'm not going to rock the boat yet and will plod on :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: atherineca on September 23, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Hi Maxwin

It's funny that you mentioned antidepressants.  As in my original post I mentioned I was taking them for 9 yrs from 2003 - 2012.  I had my hysterectomy in 2010, so maybe they masked some of my menopausal symptoms in the beginning.  I came off them due to the amount of weight I gained.  I have heard a lot of women gain weight on hrt too!  So we can't win!

Thanks again for your reply :)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Charlotte1988 on September 23, 2019, 12:56:36 PM
I had BSO last Monday and was immediately given HRT because of my age. I was told that I would be in menopause after my operation.
Is it normal to not have any symptoms of menopause?

I was given femoston, my GP said I will have a bleed each month, could anyone tell me when I should expect a bleed, there are 14 white pills, and 14 grey pills in packet.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on September 23, 2019, 06:44:36 PM
Hi Charlotte

 :welcomemm:

Most women will get some symptoms of menopause sooner or later - even if no hot flushes and sweats other symptoms of oestrogen deficiency can creep in eg vaginal atrophy or later osteoporosis for example.

How old are you - very important to take HRT if you are under the average age of natural menopause 51/52 so it's good you have been given it immediately, and also if you are not already menopausal you would be plunged into sudden surgical menopause which is a hormonal shock so HRT is ++!

Depending where you were in your cycle before your BSO op - you should normally expect a bleed towards the end of the combi pills ( are these grey?) ie the second lot of tabs, or soon after you stop them. Which dose have you been given? Hopefully they will cushion the blow of menopausal symptoms! At some point you might need testosterone too as they produce approx 50% of androgens I think - after the op it is just the adrenals I understand.

Do let us know how you are getting on.

Hurdity x

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Charlotte1988 on September 23, 2019, 08:20:16 PM
Thanks for your reply!
I'm 31, and have been told I will need hrt until I am 50 to prevent oestioparosis (sorry can't spell lol). I have been given femoston 1/10mg, I have white pills and grey pills.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Viwi on September 23, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
Oh my - Charlotte - you are even younger than me  :o I'm 33 :)
I can't use tablets, so without patches I'm doomed :( I'm using only estrogen  ::)
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sammiejane on September 23, 2019, 11:42:02 PM
Hi viwi

I was 35 when I had my op hysterectomy and bso and I didn't have hrt I tried one patch elleste solo but it didn't and my GP said oh u clearly don't suit hrt so can't take it I didn't know there were different options so badly treated I fortunately had no Symtoms for 4 yrs but then hit with them all and am struggling to find a balance at the moment had to give up work have auto immune deisease ostiopenia I tried estrogel had side effects am now on estradot patch ! What patch are u on and dose ?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Viwi on September 24, 2019, 12:55:21 AM
Sammie I am using Evorel 50 patches. I got symptoms around 10 days after total hysterectomy + bso and for me HRT was like blessing. My Ginekologist told me to go to GP asap to take HRT and my GP gave me patches Femseven 50. But I had allergy reaction for glue in those patches and changed to Evorel after 6 weeks. I have great GP... To deal with my messed health and not give up... I admire him. But he always listen and discuss all option that are best for me.
They all told me to use HRT as it prevents from osteoporosis and the lowest dose that clinically prevent it is 50. But as my ovaries never worked properly... Dose 50 is making me keep to much water and sodium so I have swollen legs. I would love to have 25 but my GP don't let me ... As it's not preventing osteoporosis :(
Sorry for my English.. the more tired I am, it's getting worser  :D

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sammiejane on September 24, 2019, 06:10:33 PM
Viwi

I tried everol 50 but couldn't get the patch to stick !

I was  on estradot 75 but I'm struggling on that very bloated swollen abdomen fluid retention my GP advised to go back on the gel and add innprogesterone and if I feel awful I've decided I'm going to go on contraceptive pill
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Viwi on September 26, 2019, 08:28:45 AM
I had problem with sticking patch with FemSeven - 6h and it peeled off XD I used old method to cover it with another plaster but after 4 weeks I had rush under patch so changed to evorel. I'm still covering it with film plaster - I don't know how to call it :P  I don't know if I can put link here but... If I can't - please remove it :)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GGJRFJC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I use this - as I'm chubby and I'm wearing only trousers - all patches have problem with staying in place where is a friction with material. It's helping a lot :)
Yesterday GP gave me Estraderm MX 50 as replacement for Evorel... I told them to leave prescription in reception as my pharmacy have NONE HRT patches... they send it to my pharmacy...  :o  No comment... I went to my pharmacy and lady is telling me that they just ordered it  ::) so fingers crossed for it to be today after 12...  ??? Why fingers crossed? Because the dont know if they will get them  ;D Not I dont know if I should cry, laugh or curse... I feel bad for mu husb this week.

I wanted to ask - as they cut everything in my case - no cervix, ovaries, womb... nothing - is it possible to feel pain in place where ovaries were - pain quite similar to when I had ovulation... To be hones I got dumb the first time it happened - it was few hours of constant pulling pain - exactly like I had with ovulation. The only diffrence is that this pain is every 2-2.5 month and not every 3 weeks. Phantom pain?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on September 26, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
Viwi,
The pain is probably due to scar tissue that is what my GP said. I get this occasionally as I had my ovaries removed 3 yrs ago.
Rhiner
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Viwi on September 26, 2019, 03:53:56 PM
The case is - it's not in place that the scar is, not even close. And before histerecomy, I had 2 laparoscopies as I had cysts on ovaries and had them removed - I never had this kind of pain before and they could hurt as well. Truth be told - I have in my discharge info that they never found right ovularis. Dont know what to think about it :(
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on September 29, 2019, 11:05:28 PM
Ladies. I'm so pleased to see this thread has been bumped. I've only just noticed  Hello everyone.
I'm 54 had BSO  just over a  year ago. I've been on the forum almost a year. I'm on estradot, ugrogestan, testogel.

 I cant believe this discussion  about the pain. I thought it was just me.
 I've been getting unmistakable ovarian pain in my left side where I had the cyst.  I told my gynae and  she sent me for a scan.  There is something called "ovarian remnant syndrome" but this was ruled out in my case as  they said If I had ovarian tissue left behind it would be obvious from my blood tests   I'm not too sure about that realy.

. It sometimes hurts to press too.which iit did at  my last ultrasound. The  radiologist said  its phantom pain. But how can pain when pressed be phantom. I have  wondered if its scar tissue. I asked him and he said you can't  see scar tissue on a scan.

 Weirdly when I went for womens physio and she pressed that side high up in my vagina it hurt too. The same side. Anyone else had that?

Rhiner did your doc say anything further about scar tissue.?

Viwi are you saying they didnt remove your right ovary/couldnt find it. If so then I think they should look into this pain.. A scan maybe. 

Charlotte
 When I had BSO  I was told previous cycle becomes irrelevant as soon as the op is done. It stops dead. . . So it wont come into play regarding your bleed on HRT.   I  hope your recovery is going well x

Best wishes to all. X






Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Rhiner on September 30, 2019, 03:47:52 PM
Hi TC,
No the doctor just said as you've had an op there will be some scaring and could be a bit of discomfort from this. Seems reasonable to me and it just comes and goes.
Rhiner
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on September 30, 2019, 09:20:54 PM
Thanks rhiner. X
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Viwi on October 01, 2019, 10:41:57 AM
Tc - I had scan 2 months after Histerectomy - no ovaries found, but as they were removing a lot of tissue (I had everything connected with endometriosis) - and my right ovarie was small (1,5x1,5 cm - after huge cyst they had to cut half of it 13 y. ago) so he could be removed with adhensions or it could stop working long ago and was already absorbed - dunno :) But I always had pain only from right one - so it can be phantop pain. I know from friend of mine - he lost his leg below knee when he was teenager - that phantop pain can be felt this same way as normal pain would - as the pain is created not in specific place but in brain, and brain still remember that pain so it's recreating it. I would prefer that my brain forget this specific pain  ;D


And I have a question to womans from UK. I was removed from cervix screening program.. as I don't have it anymore. Is it possible to jump in to mammography program before I reach 50 y.o? According to NHS - this program was created for woman starting to have menopause and beacuse risk of breast cancer on HRT is bigger. How it works for younger womans that had total hysterectomy with BSO?
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on December 04, 2019, 06:04:53 PM
Bump for the surgically menopaused women! :)

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Hurdity on December 05, 2019, 03:02:50 PM
Bump for Sammiejane!

Hurdity x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Sammiejane on December 05, 2019, 03:27:36 PM
viwi

i am 40 in surgical menopause and to be honest i do not know i haven't been offered this i presume because in theory we only take estrogen there's no risk ! if in your case u have had endometriosis then u should be on a progesterone and therefore should really have a mammogram  x

Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Treesrgreen on June 16, 2020, 08:02:11 PM
Hi this is the first time logging on! Be gentle 🙈 so... I'm having a total abdominal hysterectomy, ovarian cyst, ovaries, fillopian tubes and appendix taken out Monday. I had an ovary removed with cyst 20 years ago when I had c section with son.
I totally shut down and didn't take info in so need to know how soon did people take HRT? I'm 49 and have managed with one ovary for 20 years so feel I don't need a whacking dose of hormones!
Any advice would be greatly appreciate!
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: CLKD on June 16, 2020, 08:06:22 PM
Hi!  Good luck.  Take a button through nighties as it saves having to pull clothes over the head when you feel sore!

Your Surgeon should have discussed this with you.  If you can't get a copy of the letter from him to your GP after the appt., do ring the Ward tomorrow and ask the Questions.  Have a list of your queries and jot down the answers. 

HRT should have been talked over but Consultants really have no idea how menopause can affect ladies!  It's a matter of whip it all out and discharge to GP who often have NO IDEA!

Who will look after you following discharge?   :foryou:
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Joaniepat on June 16, 2020, 09:27:53 PM
Hi this is the first time logging on! Be gentle 🙈 so... I'm having a total abdominal hysterectomy, ovarian cyst, ovaries, fillopian tubes and appendix taken out Monday. I had an ovary removed with cyst 20 years ago when I had c section with son.
I totally shut down and didn't take info in so need to know how soon did people take HRT? I'm 49 and have managed with one ovary for 20 years so feel I don't need a whacking dose of hormones!
Any advice would be greatly appreciate!

Unless you have endometriosis I believe you can start straight away.

I can't think why they don't discuss this. I had my TAH/BSO in 1997 when I was 47 and got HRT about 6 weeks later, but that was because I had to let some endometriosis die off first. The surgeon told me beforehand that I would be given oestrogen if my ovaries were removed.

I would get on it as soon as possible afterwards. I had horrendous hot flushes night and day  during those 6 weeks and the lack of sleep did not help my recovery. I bounced back once oestrogen replacement was introduced.

Good luck for Monday Treesgreen. Take care of yourself afterwards, and don't forget to let us know how you get on .

JP x
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Tc on June 16, 2020, 09:56:52 PM
Hiya,trees.

I also believe that unless there is a reason you cant take HRT or a reason to wait then you can start straight away.   My surgeon wanted to wait until my follow up appointment when the histology of my cyst and ovaries would be back. But I have heard of ladies starting right away.  I'm not sure if they would send you home with a script or refer you back to gp for it instead.

I agree with CLKD that if there is anything you arent sure about then phone and ask. Dont feel worried about doing that. It is difficult to remember everything that's said first time.
 
One tip from me.  If you are having laparoscopy (keyhole) surgery have some windeze to hand for the first couple of days following surgery .

Please keep posting up to and after your surgery with anything you want. 

Best wishes and let us know how you get on.

Xxx
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Yorkshire Girl on June 17, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
I had a total hysterectomy in 2016, my GP wouldn't let me start HRT for 6 weeks after the op. My surgeon was a waste of space, so I did a lot of research myself, which is not how it's supposed to work! Best wishes
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: Lou44 on January 19, 2021, 02:16:05 PM
Hi is there anyone on here doing well on Tibolone with /without adding extra oestrogen? Thanks.
Title: Re: The Surgical Menopause Thread
Post by: treeoflife on October 06, 2023, 10:40:50 AM
Hi

I have been in surgical menopause since 2017 for pmdd.

Was on 200mcg Estradot patches for 6 years and then started on hrt implants in January this year.

I Had third estrogen and testosterone implant a couple of weeks ago.

I am still having cycle related symptoms and menopause symptoms.

My estrogen level has gone from 252 on the first implant to 286 on the second one. Testosterone is 1

Does anyone have any advice on hrt implants?

Thank you