Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Spangles on October 26, 2016, 09:14:39 AM
-
Hi ladies,
Has anyone taken vitamin D through winter? I've heard it's good in combatting SAD's. Although it is sold over the counter do you still need a blood test? I really suffer through winter even though I use AD's so I was thinking of giving it a try this year. Any advice?
Thanks
Shellb
xXx
-
I take Calcium with Vit D all year round, not just winter.
-
Vitamin d needs vit k also to be able to uptake it properly .
-
My brother-in-law is a leading gastroenterologist and is very insistent that we should all be taking vitamin D through winter months and even summer months if we are not getting the 20 mins per day exposure to the sun (without sunscreen). You also need magnesium to absorb Vitamin D - so a complex that includes magnesium if you don't get enough in your diet.
Without Vitamin D and magnesium you won't properly absorb calcium - so this can be bad news for the bones.
I believe that, as we age, we do need some supplementation especially as we need to reduce the amount we eat significantly to maintain a healthy weight.
DG x
-
I have taken a supplement throughout the year since I had a blood test and found I was borderline deficient at the end of summer ::)
At first, I found it cured all my aches and pains, and feeling of not being bothered. :)
Then they came back and I found out I need magnesium as well so I take that.
I usually take 10 ug during the summer (recommended DA) and 25ug during the winter.
Also, eat plenty of oily fish. Sardines on toast are lovely on a winter's evening (especially if you put butter on the toast first ;D )
-
I have taken a supplement throughout the year since I had a blood test and found I was borderline deficient at the end of summer ::)
At first, I found it cured all my aches and pains, and feeling of not being bothered. :)
Then they came back and I found out I need magnesium as well so I take that.
I usually take 10 ug during the summer (recommended DA) and 25ug during the winter.
Also, eat plenty of oily fish. Sardines on toast are lovely on a winter's evening (especially if you put butter on the toast first ;D )
Interested that it did help aches and pains. I have just had thyroid checks which are ok but have been told that I have Vit D deficiency so have started to take them. Hoping it will help aching calves and feet.
-
59 is not massively high though, Sparkle! I'm sure it would not last you through the winter.
I stopped taking them the first summer, but we had a really cold June, so I wasn't getting much from the sun. This year we had a week in Thailand in March and I had a really good boost :) It is a shame that is not possible every year.
-
Katejo - I have aches and pains all the time - have to keep moving. But they were really hurting around my neck, shoulders, hips, hands and feet. Even sitting up in bed hurt. It comes back if I stop taking the tablets.
I have tried the spray, but it did not work for me.
-
Katejo - I have aches and pains all the time - have to keep moving. But they were really hurting around my neck, shoulders, hips, hands and feet. Even sitting up in bed hurt. It comes back if I stop taking the tablets.
I have tried the spray, but it did not work for me.
dahliagirl. Did you buy them in a store such as Boots or order them online? Now wondering whether I need to buy another brand with Magnesium. Just have Boots own brand.
-
I was low in Vitamin D earlier this year and was prescribed 3 months of supplements but not told whether to come back after 3 months. When taking them I noticed an improvement in my tiredness, joint aches and more surprisingly an improvement in my ibs type symptoms (never been officially diagnosed).
I stopped taking them for a few months and noticed the joint aches and the ibs symptoms returning so phoned the Dr last week to enquire if I could have some more or if I needed another blood test first. They said I didn't need the blood test and prescribed me another 3 months worth.
-
I really don't agree that we all need to take vitamin D throughout the whole winter and certainly not in the summer!!! I am one who doesn't need to for a start! If you get plenty of sun exposure in the summer and have a good diet then that should last you most of the winter. Surely the only people who would benefit from supplementation are those within certain categories - stomach digestive problems, those over 65 ( tough not sure that should be a blanket advice as I am not far off that age and I don't need to supplement seriously), and as said those who hide from the sun or use a lot of high factor sunscreen and some other groups. Perhaps a bit of pure cod liver oil now and again - but I don't think you can get this now - it's all high strength stuff which I don't want! I would far rather get it naturally than take supplements - which is what we are designed to do. Even when working full time I always used to make sure I got outside whenever possible at lunchtimes and especially at weekends and when children were growing up. Not that I want anyone to be deficient but I think we should attend to our diet and lifestyle first! What is this life if full of care.... do try to find time to get outside, it's good for the soul :)
Hurdity x
-
Thanks so much for all of your replies ladies, it really helps.
Hurdity may I ask what area you live as you sound like you get plenty of sunshine.
I do suffer from SAD and usually take a multi supplement. however a couple of my colleagues have had great results from using a vit D supplement through winter, hence my original post.
Shellb
xXx
P.S. I get plenty of sunshine as I work mainly outdoors, I do have digestive and absorption problems though.
-
Sun screen is the problem.
I buy mine from Healthspan.
-
Yes Sparky! That was why I was so emphatic! I thought I'd said in my post but it was still in my head! I had mine tested last in mid March when levels would be at their lowest and it was ninety-something - which is why I am confident mine are OK. I agree if you have levels tested and they seem low then perhaps supplements would be needed in the short term. Dancinggirl - sorry if I came over in the wrong way - I don't want to have an argument by proxy with your brother (!) but just I do feel strongly that we should be attending to our diet and lifestyle as the main way to boost Vit D (as well as improve wellbeing) if possible, because there is so much pill popping - some of which might be unnecessary! Yes there is too much use of sunscreen. I still would be very surprised if it were not possible for most people to get sufficient Vit D from sunshine and diet (except those in the exception categories like age, digestion etc), although I accept that as things stand a lot of people are deficient. I know it depends on skin colour and type - fair-skinned people will be more likely to get Vit D from sunshine than dark-skinned people eg in Scotland. I live in SW England - but wherever I lived I would make sure I was out in the sunshine and ate a good diet. We shouldn't need good summers to get Vit D through the skin... Sparky I can see why you take supplements in your positions but all I'm saying is not everyone should need to (except as a temporary measure if deficient). As I said a bit of cod liver oil now and again on top of diet and sunshine should be enough - and like with iron - I wouldn't take supplements unless there was a demonstrable need or I was sure I was likely to be deficient.
Hurdity x :)
-
I think my low vit D level, taken in early October, was the result of several years of depletion, made worse that year by an Operation in the January. I did not recover from that as well as I would have expected and felt lacklustre all summer and without the mental energy to carry any ideas through to fruition. A naturopath friend was telling me that surgery and general anaesthetic were a big shock to the body and take longer to recover from than you expect. Anyway, after 6 weeks, I suddenly had that joie de vivre back - not a big revelation - just feeling comfortable with life again, and it was lovely.
Unfortunately, every time I stop taking the vit D, the aches etc come back. I think that in hindsight I may have been bumping the bottom of the VitD levels for some years as I have fair sensitive skin, so took the advice to keep out of the sun too well. I have also read on forums about Vit D that if you have been deficient for some time, then you do need to take it for the longer term - but no real references or research to back this up. It does seem to have been my experience.
A friend with a background in nutrition calculated that you need 3 good portions of oily fish a week (or equivalent) to get the daily rda of vitD from diet (which is considered to be too low these days) and that is quite a lot of sardines on toast! However, her levels are low, in spite of supplements so the GP has put her on a large dose (unfortunately, this is instead of the HRT that she went in and asked for, after going in for meno symptoms over several years :( )
-
Hurdity - I do totally agree that we should attend to our diet and try as best we can to get all nutrients through food. I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree about supplements. When I looked more closely at what I eat, whilst I'm doing fine for some nutrients I was clearly lacking in certain areas. I am vegetarian and don't eat oily fish, so that is one problem. I also get terrible wind and often diarrhoea if I eat too much green stuff like broccoli and I can't eat any of the onion family (gives awful heartburn). I think if one can grow most of your own vegetables that is great - I'm afraid I don't have much luck with this (though I have repeatedly tried, the wildlife seems to get most of it so it is doing the wildlife some good ;D) I only do well with potatoes, soft fruits and apples. Shop bought fruit and veg are often depleted of nutrients, although I believe frozen vegetables are better for retaining their goodness so I do use these quite a bit!!
The scientific evidence regarding Vitamin D is very strongly in favour of supplementation simply because the weather and lifestyle here in the UK and the whole of northern europe is not conducive to us being able to get enough sunshine. When I was a teenager I barely saw the light of day - rising to go to ballet college at 6am and getting home after 7pm having been indoors all day doing classes - I'm afraid many children get little or no sunlight and there is an alarming increase in rickets in the UK. We are also all told to keep out of the sun due to the risk of skin cancer so we are getting very mixed messages overall - so just like HRT the benefits of sunshine does also have risks!!!!
Recently there was feature on TV about farmed salmon - salmon being one of the most popular ways of getting Omega 3 and Vit d - farmed salmon is showing a greatly reduced amount of these key nutrients now, so with modern food production we can't rely on food alone to get what we need.
I have often sited my good friend who has been diagnosed with advanced stage osteoporosis in her mid 50s. She ate an incredibly good diet including lots of oily fish, salads, veg etc. She also kept slim and very active but had a sensitive skin so had to keep out of the sun - she also believed she should avoid dairy as the fat would be bad for her!!!. This is a classic example of how easily we can believe our diet is OK. Again, we are all told to avoid fat because of cholesterol build up, so how many people are developing osteoporosis because they avoid dairy or other calcium rich foods. It's a minefield out there with all the mixed messages.
I am merely a realist - we may think we get all we need from our diet but the reality is that we often don't and possibly as we age we simply need a little more help along the way in terms of supplements - just don't go bonkers and take too much of anything - ‘supplements' are just that, supplements.
I work hard to eat a ‘balanced' diet but I take both Krill Oil for my Omega 3 and the Osteocare supplement that has calcium, magnesium, zinc and vitamin D every day - and a couple of times a week I'm taking an iron supplement, just in case. DG x
-
Dancinggirl, interesting points. Just wish I could take dairy though. I miss cheese most of all. Lactofree variety I can take occasionally, so long as I load up with lactase tablets. This is why I take calcium supplements with vitD. GP advised me to as not getting required amount through dairy products.
I envy my daughter as she has proper fruit & veg shops beside her. I used to buy fresh fruit & veg off local stall holders when we lived in Glasgow. When we moved to Inverness our local farm sold fresh produce. Oh how I miss those days!
-
Hi there all - I hear the points being made! I am just interested to know from a biological and evolutionary point of view, where we all stand. I mean we have evolved to survive in different areas of the world with differing amounts of sunshine according to our skin type. Provided we are still living in approximately the "right" latitude for our skin (in terms of how much sun we need to produce vitamin D) then I would like to know what is possible without supplentation.
I haven't looked it up this time but every time I try to look up how much sunshine we need then different answers are given. According to the link (sparkle gave) we do in fact get most of our Vit D from sunshine and supplemented to a lesser extent by diet. The link does not mention storage on the liver so that if you have a lot of sunshine over the summer - how long will the vit D last from liver stores? I presume this is also a reflection of skin type and how much time spend in the sun?
I accept there are fewer nutrients in food now but I think we eat most foods to excess anyway in the west and particularly now (compared even to my childhood in terms of amount of protein consumed per meal/day) so I wonder whether this matters so much so that it leads to us becoming deficient? :-\.
It must be difficult I agree Dancinggirl to get as much Vit D from food if you are vegetarian - vegetable sources are not so good - so that means a lot of eggs - might counteract the effect of the broccoli!!!
Anyway I would love to see some controlled trials - on the effect of sunshine and diet on vit D levels (as well as supplements) - but I doubt they would be done as it would mean some people becoming deliberately deficient if they don't have enough sunshine!
Yes Sparky I agree re the testing - wouldn't it be wonderful if we all had annual blood tests for everything and then treated accordingly? (Vits, hormones, the lot!). My level was end of winter so I expect it is very high now after the summer. Re the dog walking - presumably that is not in the middle of the day - and presumably not enough for you if you have been shown to still be deficient - but how much you get from the sun should surely be independent of diet and digestion. In your position I would become more of a sun-worshipper for longer periods ( but this is more difficult for those who work full-time). However 20 mins in the middle of the day should work wonders ( would like to see the research into how long in different latitudes though).
Sorry this is a bit garbled as I am wondering aloud but I am genuinely interested to know about all of this in relation to our biology. If anyone has links to any published papers please post!!
Hurdity x
-
For the rest of the population, everyone over the age of five years (including pregnant and breastfeeding women) is advised to consider taking a daily supplemenaining 10 micrograms (mcg) of vitamin D.
From the NHS choices website.
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/summerhealth/pages/vitamin-d-sunlight.aspx
-
So the Govt is recommending we should be taking no more than 400 IU a day. When mine was low my gp prescribed 1600 IU a day for three months and my level reached the dizzy heights of 51. I've been taking between 2000 and 3000 IU a day for the last 18 months or so and it's now 59. So clearly I need to supplement just to stand still. Obviously I have digestive issues so don't get enough from diet but I don't think there's any way I would ever get enough from sunlight without burning to a crisp first!!
S x
I am now confused over appropriate doses. An endocrinologist has just told me that my Vit D level is low (don't have actual figure yet). I mentioned that I had bought some from Boots and she didn't say anything about needing a higher dose. The ones which i bought are 25 microgram (how does that relate to IU? 250 IU perhaps?) and it warns patients not to take more than 1 a day. A colleague has since told me that she needed a high dose because her level was very low.
I have now found the answer re. micrograms and IU. 1 microgram = 40 IU so 25 microgram = 1000 IU (already more than the 400 IU)
-
The ones I was prescribed by my GP are only 800 IU and I got told to just take 1 a day. I was never told my actual level, just that it was low but going by others, I'm thinking I can't have been that bad?!
-
Yes you're right Katejo with that conversion, I just found an online calculator. It's so confusing isn't it!
S x
So why is the NHS saying 400 microgram only per day if the over the counter version is already 1000 microgram? Just going to sainsbury's now and will look at their version if they have Vit D on its own.
-
Sainsbury's have a 25ug high dose one - that is what I use.
I was given a leaflet by the GP that said 10ug daily or 25ug if you needed to get levels up. (If you are actually deficient, then there are higher doses on prescription) Elsewhere, I have read that that is not enough.
I do 25ug in winter, and lots of fish etc. :)
-
I take vitamin D supplementation on the advice of my endocrinologist and over 6 months my levels went from 32 in February to 60 in September. This was also through the summer. He has advised increasing the amount I take through the winter as its all very well saying get plenty of sunshine, but the winter months are not generally very sunny where we live.
I use a 400iu (10mcg) D lux spray or I get my D3 from Just Vitamins. I cannot find D3 and Magnesium without calcium and I cannot take calcium supplements. I guess I could look at a separate magnesium supplement but my endo didn't mention this to me.
-
Just make sure it's D3 and not D2.
S x
What's the significance please/How do you tell? My packet just says Vit D.
-
I take vitamin D supplementation on the advice of my endocrinologist and over 6 months my levels went from 32 in February to 60 in September. This was also through the summer. He has advised increasing the amount I take through the winter as its all very well saying get plenty of sunshine, but the winter months are not generally very sunny where we live.
I use a 400iu (10mcg) D lux spray or I get my D3 from Just Vitamins. I cannot find D3 and Magnesium without calcium and I cannot take calcium supplements. I guess I could look at a separate magnesium supplement but my endo didn't mention this to me.
My endocrinologist has just told me that she is probably discharging me back to the GP because I have underactive not overractive thyroid but that I do need more Vit D but hasn't specified an amount yet. All other thyroid tests were normal levels. I am waiting for the result of 1 more blood test for B12. I looked in Boots but could only find Vit D with calcium and not with magnesium.
-
I was low in Vitamin D earlier this year and was prescribed 3 months of supplements but not told whether to come back after 3 months. When taking them I noticed an improvement in my tiredness, joint aches and more surprisingly an improvement in my ibs type symptoms (never been officially diagnosed).
I stopped taking them for a few months and noticed the joint aches and the ibs symptoms returning so phoned the Dr last week to enquire if I could have some more or if I needed another blood test first. They said I didn't need the blood test and prescribed me another 3 months worth.
Hi Megamind How long did it take before you noticed an improvement in the aches/pains? What dose were you on? I have recently been recommended them and have been taking them for about 2-3 weeks but no improvement yet. I want to see the GP about the dose and whether I need to take ones combined with something else. I am just waiting for a letter from the hospital with my latest blood test result for B12 before I make an appointment.
-
Hi Kate,
I was only prescribed 1 a day Fultium-D 800 IU. I would say it took a month to show improvement in my joint pain and tiredness. When I stopped taking them, the joint pain rather than the tiredness came back again. I've been taking them again now about 3 weeks and the joint pain has improved again. It's always in my knee and wrists.