Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Cider on May 11, 2016, 09:57:41 AM
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Hello all,
I am about to turn 46 and recently learned that the horrors I have been going through for the last 2 years has a name. HELLO PERIMENOPAUSE. It has been a gradual build up of symptoms that came to a head late last year when I thought I was suffering from stress (which was also a factor), and it's only been since January that I have put all the weird things that had been happening over the last 18 months to 2 years had all been part of the menopause transition.
All the other older women in my life appear to have sailed through this thing with just a few hot flushes (including my own mother) luring me into a false sense of security that during menopause I would just get a bit sweaty at times, maybe get a bit weepy and my periods would stop. How wrong could I be. I think I have the symptoms for ALL of them. Thanks dears.
Anyway, I am trying to avoid any type of medication or therapies and ride this thing out using diet and exercise. I won't say it is easy, but when I stick to it rigidly it DOES work. Unfortunately at the moment any little slip up seems to leave me reeling. As someone who has always eaten healthily and worked out, I found I had less and less motivation to do so over the last couple of years and have slipped into bad habits. Typical meno - making what should help, that little bit harder! But I am hoping that as I work at it, and regain my health and fitness, a night on the town will no longer turn into a week of suicidal mood swings and rage.
I am looking forward to meeting you all and sharing the pain and the laughs with you all over the next 10/20 years and hpefully save my relationship with my husband and bestie by ranting at you guys instead of them!! (don't worry they are very supportive, I just feel bad putting it all on them).
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:welcomemm: ……. browse round. Make notes!
HORMONES >:( ::)
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There's a thread "Who is still up" for those who can't sleep ::)
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Hi and :welcomemm:
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Hi Cider and welcome to MM
Your story is very typical. You don't say what is happening to your periods - are you getting longer gaps or have they changed in any way - have they already stopped? One of the main issues with the peri meno stage is the fluctuation of hormones - this fluctuation gives good and bad phases and this will often fool us into thinking that natural remedies and diet are working at times. Don't beat yourself up if you feel your diet and exercise regime is not working - it is very important to be kind to yourself and relaxation is terribly important as we go through this inevitable part of the life cycle.
It's worth keeping a simple diary to monitor your cycle. Flushes, poor sleep, headaches, aches and pains tend to come and go in relation to the hormonal fluctuations. As you are still young, if your periods do stop in the next couple of years then HRT would be advisable to protect your heart and bones for the long term, however, whether one chooses to use HRT or not will usually be down to personal choice. It is worth looking into your options as oestrogen deficiency can lead to some nasty long term problems e.g. vaginal atrophy and bladder issues. If you are finding the ‘lady bits' are getting dry, sore and sex is becoming difficult then there is always local oestrogen treatment that can help a great deal. Many of us on MM tend to take the view that quality of life is important and if meno symptoms are restricting life then HRT is a very good option - nobody can tell you how long the meno symptoms will last, even after the periods have stopped.
Do read up all the info on this site to get really clued up. Concentrating on diet and exercise is really great - keep going but don't suffer unnecessarily. DG x
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Hi, thanks for the info. I have been reading a lot about menopause and the advantages and disadvantes of HRT over the last few months.
About a year ago, I got two periods a month for about three or four months and then they went back to normal, they have been fairly regular until the last few months when my cycles have slowly started to increase to 28-33 days instead of 21-28 day. (I use an app to minitor) I have a very clear cycle at the moment. When bleeding stops I have a few symptom free days - 3 days to a week, then I have a "phantom period", bloating, cramps etc, this can last up to a week, then I go into my two week "PMT" cycle - depression, anger, irritablity, mood swings, headaches (although I think these may be eyesight related - I need a test), brain fog, memory loss, fatigue, overheating, itching, emotions all over the place, then my period which can range from really heavy to really light.
Sometimes it is worse than others, but eating a clean diet, exercising and having reducing the stress factors in my life help massively.
I had three months off work with what I believed was stress from November through January (stress was a factor but it was actually peri-meno). Once I had slept for three days I got up and cleaned up my diet and got back to a regular exercise routine, I immediately began to feel better, then I went away for a week and once I got back I slipped into old habits and my symptoms came back. This lasted until January when I once again, cleaned up my diet and got back to regular exercise, by the end of the month I felt amazing, back to my "normal" self and how I used to feel before this all started. I slowly went back to work on a phased return, as my shifts got longer my ability to eat clean and exercise lapsed and obviously stress increased. My symptoms slowly returned and increased as I tried different things to try and juggle work and life. I found my way in April, and have much improved. Stress is still a massive factor, and my emotions have been all over the place, but in a managable way. The mood swings have gone, the anger, irritabilty etc have all gone. I'm just crying all over the place. And as a person who is normally very emotionally repressed, this is weird for me to deal with, but I can live with it as a compromise.
I know that symptoms can fluctuate, but I also know how I have been feeling over the last 18 to 24 months and what has changed. There is a clear link between what I eat and how I exercise to what my symptoms will be. Eating sugar, refined carbs or processed food will lead to a worsening of my symptoms the next day, continuing to eat this way will make them worse to the point of unbearable, for me and all around me. Exercise will relieve symptoms immediately and if I don't exercise for a couple of days I can really tell the difference . I am still in the early stages of trying to find that balance between work, life, convenience, diet, exercise and being social. For the most part I have it down, but life likes to throw us curveballs every now and then. I have 13 hour working days including travel, so it's quite difficult to fit a lot of life in at the best of times, but I am figuring it outI do ensure that I get one complete rest day in my working week (today is that day :) ). I am listening to my body and monitoring my habits and symptoms very closely.
I haven't ruled out HRT completely and my doctor and I have agreed that it will be prescribed as an abosolute last resort only. At the moment, the risks very much outweight the benefits to me, especially if I can find a way of getting through this without medication, and that is what I want to do if I can.
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Welcome Cider. You have great motivation!
I would love to know more about your clean eating and exercise. I can see the link to feeling well for myself but haven't been organised enough to work out exactly what is making the difference. I know being well hydrated is a big factor!
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Hi Cider - I admire your strength and determination - the peri stage can be really challenging. Your life sounds pretty full on!! ???
I am interested to know why you think the risks of HRT outweigh any benefits? Do you have a close family member with breast cancer? From what you are telling us, HRT may not be the best option right now but if you do have fears over the safety of HRT I would suggest you look at some of the latest research and findings about the actual long term benefits of HRT - I believe that 5 years of HRT in our 50s can protect our heart and bones for the long term and will help to prevent vaginal atrophy and bladder problems. I am not suggesting you should use HRT - it is a personal choice and you have said you haven't ruled it out, however, don't listen to all the scare stories as the risks are actually very small until the age of 60. Do keep us posted about your progress - there are many ladies who want to ‘ride the storm' without medication who will be eager to hear your positive message and follow your story. Keep posting. DG x
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I found in the 1990s that chocolate made my body feel sluggish. I don't eat as much these days and I was a bar a day Girl ::). Some food stuffs cause my mouth to burn so have cut those out. I need to do more exercise ::) ……..
Let us know how you get on! Keep in mind that Quality of Life is important?
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Welcome Cider. You have great motivation!
I would love to know more about your clean eating and exercise. I can see the link to feeling well for myself but haven't been organised enough to work out exactly what is making the difference. I know being well hydrated is a big factor!
Hi there and thank you.
For eating, I basically cut out all refined sugar (naturally sourced sugar, ie from fruit is fine), white refined carbs (white flour, white pasta, white rice etc), processed foods (anything in a packet with a bunch of ingredients half of which you can't prononce), and personally I avoid dairy too, but that is more of a personal choice, a lot of dairy isn't good for you, and if you do have it, sheep or goats milk is better, I also don't eat meat, but again that is a personal choice, if you do eat meat lean protein and oily fish is especially good. No alcohol or caffienated products. So you might be thinking what the hell do you eat?? Home cooked food basically. A wide variety of different coloured fruit and vegetables. Avocado is an amazing source of nutrients and good fats, wholegrain products (personally I try and avoid wheat, but again that is more of a personal choice), leafy greens are important, nuts, legumes, and seeds (brazil nuts and flax seeds are particularly good for us meno-ladies), and the only supplememt I take is kelp tablets every day, because kelp is full of the good stuff and hard to get hold of and probably not very tasty.
With regard to exercise my approach has always been find something you enjoy and do that, because if you don't enjoy it you won;t do it, having said that I have forced myself to start running, something I have never enjoyed, a few years back when my job moved to a different town and I didn't have as much time to exercise. Now I love running. I also force myself to lift weights, becuase strength is very important, and now I really enjoy it and look forward my lifting days. Also I love the feeling of being strong. Exercise can be anything, try some stuff out, or go back to something you enjoyed when you were younger, it doesn't have to be expensive or going to a gym, you can walk or run outside for free, you can watch youtube videos in your front room. Just try a few things out and see what you enjoy. Personally I love running and long walks, or short brisk strolls to clear my head and help me think clearer. I love boxercise to de-stress, and I do pilates to calm down and quiet my mind, I lift weights or do bodyweight exercise to be strong.
Exercise is so important and especially at our age. It keeps your heart healthy, it strengthens your mind and helps with memory and cognitive function, lifting weights build muscle which supports your bones and helps to avoid osteoporisis, it also helps to improve your metabolism which slows down at our age, it gives your body a better shape and gets rid of those bingo wings!!
Sometimes with our busy lifestyles it is hard to fit things in, I will grab 20 to 30 minutes exercise where I can during the day, and then do something more intensive on my days off. I am lucky to have a gym at work so I use the treadmill in my meal break. I make batches of food and freeze them for convenience for those days when you just don't have time, and have rediscovered my love of cooking and finding new and exciting recepies. I have made some amazing sweet treats without using any sugar or sweetners.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be so long - I am really passionate about health and fitness!! And I don't know what your lifestyle is so I just sort of went with everything I could think of!!
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Hi Cider - I admire your strength and determination - the peri stage can be really challenging. Your life sounds pretty full on!! ???
I am interested to know why you think the risks of HRT outweigh any benefits? Do you have a close family member with breast cancer? From what you are telling us, HRT may not be the best option right now but if you do have fears over the safety of HRT I would suggest you look at some of the latest research and findings about the actual long term benefits of HRT - I believe that 5 years of HRT in our 50s can protect our heart and bones for the long term and will help to prevent vaginal atrophy and bladder problems. I am not suggesting you should use HRT - it is a personal choice and you have said you haven't ruled it out, however, don't listen to all the scare stories as the risks are actually very small until the age of 60. Do keep us posted about your progress - there are many ladies who want to ‘ride the storm' without medication who will be eager to hear your positive message and follow your story. Keep posting. DG x
Hi - thank you.
Basically what I meant was that the risks involving taking any medication - there are always side effects and risks - outweight the benefit if there is another way to do it that has no side effects. I have no family history of breast cancer that I am aware of, I have had pre-cancerous cells removed after abnormal cells were found in a smear test. I don't want to put myself at any risk of any cancer if I can help it. And while it might be helpful for me to take HRT and I know many women benefit greatly from it, there are also many who manage using other methods and I would like to be one of those if possible. So what I meant was, if I can find a way that works just as well as HRT but without any of the risks involved, then I would prefer to use that method. I take the same view with any medication, if there is a way of doing the same job with the same results, without taking the medication, then I will try that first. So if I can feel 100% better (which my experience so far tells me I can) without using HRT then I will do that, it might not be the easiest option, and there will be peaks and troughs, that is the same with HRT too, it takes some trial and error to get the right medication, just as it is taking some trial and error for me to get the correct diet and exercise routine. If in the end I find it doesn't work at all, then I will look at other options.
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Thanks Cider 😀
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I found in the 1990s that chocolate made my body feel sluggish. I don't eat as much these days and I was a bar a day Girl ::). Some food stuffs cause my mouth to burn so have cut those out. I need to do more exercise ::) ……..
Let us know how you get on! Keep in mind that Quality of Life is important?
Hi, thank you. Yes quality of life is my top priority and what I am working so hard to achieve, and may it be a long, happy and healthy one. :)
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Cider - it all sounds good. Do keep us posted about your progress. You are clearly doing all the right things.
Be kind to yourself as well though - remember we need relaxation and ‘a little of what we fancy' now and again. DG x
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Hello Cider and welcome to the forum.
I am also interested to learn how you manage the menopause with your regime so I hope you can keep us updated.
Can I ask, is your diet a vegan one and have you considered adding B12 and Vitamin D supplements as I believe these are recommended for anyone not eating any animal products.
Wishing you well on your quest for a trouble free meno!
Take care and keep posting.
K.
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Hello Cider and welcome to the forum.
I am also interested to learn how you manage the menopause with your regime so I hope you can keep us updated.
Can I ask, is your diet a vegan one and have you considered adding B12 and Vitamin D supplements as I believe these are recommended for anyone not eating any animal products.
Wishing you well on your quest for a trouble free meno!
Take care and keep posting.
K.
Hi Kathleen and thank you.
I am not totally vegan although I try to avoid dairy and don't comsume a lot of it, I do eat some dairy. I'm not keen on supplementation and try and get the nutrients from diet if I can. You raise an interesting point with Vit D and B12 though. Vitamin D, I believe is best obtained from sunlight - not easy to get in the UK, but is also contained is some veg including mushrooms and sweet potatos both of which I eat a lot of! I do keep meaning to try a supplement over the winter though to see if it makes any difference to my terrible winter moods.
B12 is harder - from what I have read, the jury is out on whether it can be obtained from non-meat sources. Some consider it can be obtained from sea vegetables and spirulina - both of which I do take in supplement form. I was tested for Vit B12 defficiency some years ago (I suffered from ME/CFS for 5 years and the symptoms are similar) and it came back fine, but always worth getting tested again.
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Hello Cider.
I see you have considered all aspects of your diet and I only mentioned Vitamin D and B12 as I understand incorporating these can be more difficult. I know a lady who simply takes a multivitamin once a week as she believes this covers all bases!
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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That's interesting Sparkle. Do you still have CFS or have you recovered?
I have been fully recovered for 7 years now.
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Yes! So many hormone imbalances cause fatigue, muscle and joint pain but often goes unrecognised by doctors! I feel women should have regular endocrinological checks and trial treatments to see if any of these improved - and think how much better women would feel not to mention how much money would be saved if many women responded to these treatments ... :)
Hurdity x
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Its been up and down through peri Cider, it had been much improved until peri kicked off about five years ago. Today I feel absolutely awful, tight tendons and muscles causing horrible pains, feel really low and headachey too and can't think clearly. I also feel really tired but I can't sleep at night, I wake up after two hours no matter what time I go to bed. For me poor sleep was a cfs feature but its also a peri feature so I'm not sure what's going to be honest, I just think they're closely linked.
S x
Yes, so many of the symptoms I have are similar to the ones I had with CFS, with one massive difference and that is that no matter how tired or crappy I feel, I CAN get out of bed, (I don't really want to, but I can) and go to work and exercise and it doesn't make me feel worse. In fact exercise makes me feel better.
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Thanfully I was never totally bedridden either. I did go through periods where I didn't spend a whole lot of my day out of bed or lying on the sofa, and every little thing I did sent me right back to bed, going to the bathroom, cleaning my teeth etc. But the majority of the time I could take care of myself, and I even managed to keep my job through it all. When I am feeling similiar symptoms (and the symptoms are so similar to so many other things) the first thing I do is check whether activity makes this better, worse or stay the same. If it's better or stay the same then I know it's not a recurrence of CFS symptoms. Because without fail, any activity would make me worse, even if sometimes it took a couple of days to set in.
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:-[ I try to eat healthy in that Himself cooks from scratch most evenings. I exercise as much as possible. But once I begin to feel ill eating goes out the window :-\
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:-[ I try to eat healthy in that Himself cooks from scratch most evenings. I exercise as much as possible. But once I begin to feel ill eating goes out the window :-\
That is the same for me. While I am eating healthily I feel fine, but it only takes a little slip up in my regime and symptoms soon start to reappear and then it's a downward spiral - the worse I feel the worse I eat, the worse I eat the worse I feel, and it takes a major effort to get back on track.
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I used to have 'safe' foods but even that doesn't work as well these days :sigh:
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Hi Cider
thanks for being so open to your woes.
Its a tough time to go thru and all of us have been there.
You said "I haven't ruled out HRT completely and my doctor and I have agreed that it will be prescribed as an abosolute last resort only. At the moment, the risks very much outweight the benefits to me, especially if I can find a way of getting through this without medication, and that is what I want to do if I can."
What is the last resort?
You mention bad thoughts and other issues your using your DH and Bestie for.
Believe me however good they are now that will only last a limited amount of time.
Even the best have a point where they will tip.
I've been through this and had those same thoughts.
It damaged me and my family. I still shudder about what I've done and said due to this.
In terms of what is the last resort, for me it was when my water works/sex activities started to pack in.
Running to the toilet all the time. Planning toilet stops rather than my days activities became the horrible norm for me.
Took over 6 months to get back to normal after starting HRT.
Loosing the closeness with my DH was probably the worst and most damaging part of this.
A lot of ladies don't get back to normal after starting HRT much later or postponing till the "last resort".
Like any potentially chronic issue - early intervention is best.
I'm glad I didn't leave it longer but I so wish I'd started sooner.
Your body, your choice and all that but we can only share what we've been through and hope that others don't have to suffer the same unnecessarily.
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Hi Cider
thanks for being so open to your woes.
Its a tough time to go thru and all of us have been there.
You said "I haven't ruled out HRT completely and my doctor and I have agreed that it will be prescribed as an abosolute last resort only. At the moment, the risks very much outweight the benefits to me, especially if I can find a way of getting through this without medication, and that is what I want to do if I can."
What is the last resort?
You mention bad thoughts and other issues your using your DH and Bestie for.
Believe me however good they are now that will only last a limited amount of time.
Even the best have a point where they will tip.
I've been through this and had those same thoughts.
It damaged me and my family. I still shudder about what I've done and said due to this.
In terms of what is the last resort, for me it was when my water works/sex activities started to pack in.
Running to the toilet all the time. Planning toilet stops rather than my days activities became the horrible norm for me.
Took over 6 months to get back to normal after starting HRT.
Loosing the closeness with my DH was probably the worst and most damaging part of this.
A lot of ladies don't get back to normal after starting HRT much later or postponing till the "last resort".
Like any potentially chronic issue - early intervention is best.
I'm glad I didn't leave it longer but I so wish I'd started sooner.
Your body, your choice and all that but we can only share what we've been through and hope that others don't have to suffer the same unnecessarily.
Hi, there and thank you for your very open and honest reply.
The last resort for me is when nothing else works.
At the moment I can feel 110% well through diet and exericise, so long as I stick with my regime, which has been difficult since going back to work after a period of sick leave, as I have long days and it is easy to slip up when I am tired and don't have much time. Even when not being a complete saint about my diet and only being strict 80% ofthe time, this elimiates the bad thoughts, the rage attacks and pretty much all other symptoms apart from my emotions being all over the place. By which I mean crying at everything - not mood swings. I think I can live with that. And if I do feel bad, I exercise and it gets better.
I am wanting to write a longer post on diet/exercise vs HRT because it's all new to me and I am still learning. I have lots of questions. I haven't had the time so far, but I will get around to it.
My husband and bestie support me 100% in this decision. It is hard for them of course, but over the course of long relationships there are good times and bed times. My bestie has bi-polar - there are times when she is not the best version of herself either. We strengthen each other.
I don't want to put myself at risk of cancer (even the smallest slightest risk), uneccesarily. If I can control this without medication, then that to me, seems the best and most logical way to do it. If I can't then I will consider medication.
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Hi Cider
I'm not going to assume your name is related to alcohol or your penchant for Cider :)
However one of the most dangerous things we do without thinking is consume alcohol.
If you are in the least bit worried about HRT (even the smallest slightest risk)
as you put it
then we should all stop drinking alcohol.
This is whats so silly in the urban legends that follow HRT.
To suddenly blame HRT after a couples years use after a lifetime of taking alcohol is unwise and unfair for all those suffering both sides of this problem.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/alcohol-and-cancer/alcohol-facts-and-evidence#alcohol_facts2
I wish you well as you go forward.
:-*
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Hi Cider
I just wanted to say :welcomemm: from me too because I don't think I have yet!
Also you seem a bit like a woman after my own heart - well almost - when it comes to diet and exercise - SO important - you are doing the best thing you can for your health as you start this new phase of your life! I also try to get most of what I need nutrient wise - from food.
I won't say I eat similarly but there are similarities in that I normally now do not eat sugar except in fruit or meals out now and again or perhaps the odd square of choc - but it doesn't feature in my diet, and I eat tons of vegetables, nuts, pulses etc. However I also eat a lot of fish - usually caught locally (by my husband) as I live not far from the sea (or trout caught from a reservoir!), and lean meat, lots of eggs and natural yogurt and cottage cheese. I love avocados too. I also like alcohol (mainly at weekends - but can't tolerate much now) and I love my tea and coffee ::). (you said you didn't drink?). I'm 63 and have been on HRT for 9 + years - but I only started when almost 54 and was very late peri - which was an ideal time to start it as my own hormones had stopped fluctuating madly. Like you I managed without anything until then - with periods missing for several months and hot flushes and night sweats keeping me awake, and having 2 young teenage boys at home at the time and working full-time.
I also do a fair amount of exercise - I was doing 3 classes per week but have cut down to two due to summer and gardening and I still work part-time.
What I want to say is that I do feel well most of the time - with a combination of the right diet, exercise AND HRT!
At your stage you probably don't need it - although if you start going 2-3 months or longer between periods before the age of 51/52 - which is the natural average age of menopause - then this is classed as an early menopause so HRT is advisable to help prevent osteoporosis and to protect your heart. HRT taken before this age does not count in terms of cancer or stroke risk (unless you have a genetic predisposition through family history that suggests otherwise).
If you need contraception then an option is to take the latest BCP called Qlaira which contains oestrogen that is bio-identical to our own - although the progestogen is synthetic. This evens out the hormone fluctuations that cause so many problems in peri-menopause.
Anyway I admire you for getting your diet health and lifestyle under control - which is what we should all be doing :). If it helps you feel well for longer then that's fantastic :)
Hurdity x