Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => Birthdays and Events => Topic started by: CLKD on November 23, 2015, 03:30:26 PM
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:-\ ……. I know that many people congregate in public spaces to 'see in' the New Year. However, with the upheaval in the World right now and with our security and Police Forces etc. stretched, should it be avoided this year? Some would say that by not continuing daily life 'as normal' what ever that is; is 'giving in' to those who don't like our style. However, I feel that our Police and other Emergency Services have enough to do without the worry of possible atrocities in UK Capital Cities.
Shouldn't we be putting our ideals of getting 2-gether 2 1 side and think about our Emergency Personnel - after all they will be at risk if we congregate. I don't need to be with others at any time of the year, haven't done a collective celebration for years ::) due to anxiety and looking over my shoulder all evening would send those levels flying !
Our Police Forces are being cut back. Financially and physically. At a time when we need more feet on the ground and more presence!
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Thats a very scary (and good) point CLKD.
I havent 'done' New Year since before my daughter was born. These days it is spent in bed early with one of the dogs dosed up on rescue remedy ready for the blitz outside:(
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I have never been out in public spaces at New Year, not even in my youth. Always been with family/friends indoors.
However, I feel that if folk want to, it's their choice. My future DIL was in London one New Year, she & her friends wanted to experience the whole thing. However, by about 10.3O none felt safe due to the huge numbers & headed back to their flat & brought in New Year there.
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Is it choice any longer though? Shouldn't people have a bit of sense and stay away from public areas - so that the Police can get on with policing?
We are all entitled to be kept as safe as possible but if people insist on going to 'un-necessary' events ………. :-\
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It does make sense but it would give the terrorists what they want - a feeling of terror stopping people leading a normal life.
Taz x
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I agree Taz.
Think folk should still go out, but be aware of your surroundings.
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It's not 'giving' anyone anything other than the Police the opportunity of doing their 'job' with less people to worry. I can't get this 'giving in' attitude whether it be to taking medication 1 doesn't want to take or because of the times that we find ourselves living in.
It's being sensible ……… you could say that by grouping together in crowds that you play into the hands of the terrorists: all those people in one place, exactly what they need :-\
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Eh? By that argument we might as well all stay in and never go anywhere where people congregate together!
I mean that's what we do as a species or society or culture. We go to things together. We celebrate - be it theatre, concerts, festivals, demonstrations, transport, sports event, big public celebrations - eg royal processions or fireworks. Any big event requires policing and the money has to be found otherwise we would be in a situation where large events were banned.
Yes of course any large grouping of people is a potential terrorist threat, but horrific though it is, we should not be permanently curtailing our freedom in the face of this threat. I mean planes/cars/trains crash but we carry on using them because statistically the likelihood of our dying in one is small. It is still very scary but as Taz says the terrorist threat plays on fear and aims to destroy our way of life through these dreadful and insidious random acts.
Hurdity x
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New Years Eve isn't essential though. It's a drain on already drained resources although the day has shown that the Police cuts aren't being carried through as threatened - don't know if the decision by the Chancellor is due to the Paris atrocities :-\.
I often wonder how, in the Middle Ages, people coped with constant potential aggravation of high-way men, attacks by various incomers to the islands ………..
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I get what you're saying but if New Year's Eve isn't necessary neither are concerts, art exhibitions, weddings, funerals, air travel, train travel...If we avoided any event where a large number of people were gathered together, life would become very narrow for many people. And it wouldn't stop terrorist attacks - they would just target smaller groups more often.
Everyone is making a huge fuss about Paris because it is so near to us, but large numbers of people have been dying in other countries for years & it's barely mentioned on western media unless a western person is killed.
Personally, I haven't celebrated new year for years since I finally realised I hate being out that late! I'm usually in bed by then & just sit up to watch any fireworks through the window!
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It's not avoiding areas where large numbers are per se but at events that are not necessary.
Family events are necessary …. and hopefully no-one has to tolerate 1000s at their weddings ;D. The Davis Cup is going ahead in Ghent this weekend after careful consideration with extra security - I feel that the public should expect that level of security anyway >:(. Hopefully the Tornament will go without incident.
Public museums etc. should be protected but as seen in Egypt a few years ago, it isn't always possible because people are so mobile now. The element of a fast attack when least expected, the element of surprise and shock makes it easier for public spaces to be targeted.
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I'm not sure why public museums should be protected but other large gatherings shouldn't? It is imperative that we all go about our normal business as usual.
Taz x
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A friend of mine and her parents used to go from neighbour to neighbour at Hogmanay, winding up at the last one at about 5am. They always had a great time, first-footing, eating black bun and enjoying whisky (I think!). No need to stand in the centre of town with thousands of others. Great fun, sociable and safe. Why not do whatever's traditional, locally (if anything is), than risk who-knows-what on the city streets? :-\
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Dulciana - good point. Lump of coal rings a bell?
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It's not avoiding areas where large numbers are per se but at events that are not necessary.
CLKD you've commented before that you don't like large crowds or events, fair enough. I don't enjoy such things either but to criticise such events as unnecessary sounds quite like you want stop such things because you don't enjoy them! Many people do enjoy such events, you/we are not obliged to attend.
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You're missing my point Limpy. Our Emergency Services are stretched enough. So not having large groups of people in un-necessary places will ease that situation. I suggest that New Years' Eve celebrations are not necessary, there are other ways to 'celebrate' should 1 want to. It is almost impossible to check people attending such an event.
Proms in the Park etc. need to have good security ……..
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Thing is you'll never stop people congregating for such events. Police etc have a hard job at house parties too. Too much to drink, arguments start & it snowballs from there. If cities etc were to ban public celebrations, it'll just move to other places like house parties etc. Events happen in pubs & clubs too, should they close too?
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What about sport fixtures CLKD? it costs a lot to police them too. What a boring life it would be if we could only celebrate with close family and friends!!
Taz x
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Sports fixtures etc.: I expect those to be Policed accordingly, we shouldn't suddenly have 'extra' security ! Belgium has been on the highest alert since Paris …….. :-\ what happens next? High alert should be that, policing to keep the public as safe as possible.
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Big football matches require extra police on duty. Leave gets cancelled so they have enough. Extra police pound the beat on normal Friday & Saturday nights too. Can't stop folk going out to let their hair down.
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":-\ ……. I know that many people congregate in public spaces to 'see in' the New Year. However, with the upheaval in the World right now and with our security and Police Forces etc. stretched, should it be avoided this year? Some would say that by not continuing daily life 'as normal' what ever that is; is 'giving in' to those who don't like our style. However, I feel that our Police and other Emergency Services have enough to do without the worry of possible atrocities in UK Capital Cities"
Just to get back to your original point - you seem to be saying that something like a New Years Eve gathering shouldn't be allowed but that large sports fixtures can go ahead? I don't understand the difference to be honest. Neither of these things are necessary for survival but one is ok and the other isn't?
Taz x
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You are missing my point. Enclosed, ticketed events should be more secure because everyone in and out can be screened. Open events such as New Years Eve are impossible to secure as effectively. New Years Eve can be 'celebrated' anywhere and not necessarily, nor is it essential, to be in public spaces.
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Open events such as New Years Eve are impossible to secure as effectively.
CLKD - How do you secure things like the Boxing Day sales, they can get quite busy. The same applies to any shopping environment in the run up to Christmas. Life goes on, it's not possible to secure absolutely everything.
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Each store is entitled to allow who they want into their store. No Manager has to serve anyone. We got used to having bags searched in the late 1960s/70s/80s ……. of course, the Government has shot itself in the foot over this one by banning carriers ::) - whereas if one was asked not to take ruck-sacks, shoppers etc. with us but to take free bags from the stores at least there is less likely-hood that a device could be carried into a shopping area.
Scanners could be built into each door way ……. it was noticeable that all spectators were scanned prior to being allowed into the Davis Cup event in Ghent …….. and aren't people scanned at air-ports?
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Each store is entitled to allow who they want into their store. No Manager has to serve anyone. We got used to having bags searched in the late 1960s/70s/80s ……. of course, the Government has shot itself in the foot over this one by banning carriers ::) - whereas if one was asked not to take ruck-sacks, shoppers etc. with us but to take free bags from the stores at least there is less likely-hood that a device could be carried into a shopping area.
Scanners could be built into each door way ……. it was noticeable that all spectators were scanned prior to being allowed into the Davis Cup event in Ghent …….. and aren't people scanned at air-ports?
Umm - I'm sure scanners could be built into doors.
As a matter of interest who would be responsible for paying for the installation of these scanners, or more to the point, the operation of such kit?
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As we have seen in Paris CLKD - ticketed events (sports stadia, concert halls) are not secure and random terrorist acts at sparsely populated cafes I the open air were and can still be carried out.
We cannot police against all of this. Nor should we cancel any public event that normally takes place. As I said earlier in this thread, none of the celebrations and events we do as a civilised society are essential. We cannot simply police ourselves against those determined to instil terror and destroy our way of life. We have to rely on the security forces and intelligence and the measures we have in place to help prevent the worst atrocities - but sadly they will continue to happen - whether or not New Year celebrations are cancelled. You also cannot install scanners at every venue either!
Hurdity x
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Why not - they are at airports ……….. and the Stores can well afford to fit scanners etc. at doorways.
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Are scanners required to get into airports or just to get on planes?
Even if scanners did appear at all shop entrances (BTW who pays for this?) somebody would need to know how to operate them, staffing and training would be required. Again more expense.
Picture the scene, 7.30 am 23rd December outside local Supermarket, people are going to be really happy about queueing to be scanned before they can get their Christmas food shopping done.
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Each store is entitled to allow who they want into their store. No Manager has to serve anyone.
Who would the managers decide to 'allow' in? Anyone who doesn't 'look like' a terrorist? Problem is, I've seen pictures of a lot of terrorists, and very few of them 'look like' terrorists. A couple I really would not want to meet on a dark night, but most of them look like the kind of folk I'd be chatting to in the queue at the Post Office!
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It might Bcome routine though. It's the time we live in sadly …… and if it means people are more secure ………. after all, it became routine in NI ;-).
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Dulciana, I don't know why but that reminded me of many moons ago one New Years Eve when my mum and dad had a party at home and my mum who was rather tiddly by midnight decided to burn her bra - she carried it out into the street on a large platter! Don't ask me why, not sure she knew, but it was certainly a conversation piece for a while!! S x
Umm, okay............! ;D
As for New Year - people now know they're taking a risk, so why take one? :-\
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My point exactly ……… this is a risk we are able to avoid.