Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: lyn on October 04, 2015, 03:28:42 AM
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Hi everyone,
After a month of feeling almost completely well :D...free from anxiety etc ( I am on oestradot patch only) I became ill with a virus caught from the grandchildren with nausea and fevers. Since coming down with the virus all of my anxiety has resurfaced and is much worse.
We spent what should have been a lovely few days relaxing by the sea and I was so anxious I spoiled it for my husband. The elderly lady who ran the B and B where we stayed told me she had the same thing when she was my age and the hospital gave her an "injection of hormones in the bottom" and she was cured for life! Ha ha. Comments anyone? Has age perhaps fuddled her memory or was there a wonderful cure back then?
The GP put me on escitalopram 2 days ago and I cannot tolerate it at all...agitated to the extreme,clenching my limbs (like restless leg syndrome but much worse) diarrhoea and vomiting and I feel so bad. Everyone says the AD's take a while to work and you may feel worse before you feel better but I can't go on feeling this bad! I was better off without the AD's.
I have always been very sensitive to medication (2 paracetamol put me to sleep) and the doses of AD's I have tried have been very small indeed. (Have tried seroquel and cymbalta with awful side effects too).
Has anyone else found that becoming ill with a virus exacerbates the anxiety of menopause? Could it really have sent me back to square one?
I really think I will have to just tough it out and get through this without medication. i will stay on the HRT but am now too afraid to try another AD. I have never been depressed in my life but GP says the anti depressant drugs work for anxiety too...does this seem weird?
All comment welcome. Best wishes to all you beautiful ladies who are so supportive of everyone! :)
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Hi lyn - no real answers I'm afraid but wanted to send you a hug and to say that it is common to feel low after a virus especially the ones which affect the stomach. When we are low or even just plain tired then anxieties do raise their heads again so please don't feel that you are back to where you started. How long ago did you have the virus?
As for the side effects from the anti d. Although nausea is common for the first couple of weeks if you are actually vomiting and have diarrhoea then I would say this is definitely not one for you. Are you still using your herbal anxiety remedy and did the doc know about this when he prescribed the anti d? Although herbal remedies can seem quite mild they don't mix with other medicines.
Anti depressants do work for anxiety so your doc is right and there are many different ones available but it is so wearing trying them out before you find the one that suits you.
Taz x :bighug:
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Hi viruses can make you unwell for weeks totally taking everything out of you ,so it might not actually be the Ads causing the vomiting. However maybe stop for a couple of weeks see how you are feeling then maybe the decision will become clearer. I take ADS for chronic anxiety,palps,etc. As hrt never could control that aspect for me. Hope you feel better soon.
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Hi Taz2 and Dazned
Thank you for your kind words! How are you both feeling?
Had the virus 12 days ago. Husband had it too and I must admit, he still hasn't got his appetite back (unusual for him). The vomiting and dreadful gastric upset: It's a known side effect of the a.d.
I came off the herbal meds several days before starting the ad's. The muscle clenching is the worst symptom...it's 7:30pm and it's only just easing off now, 12 hrs later. The other thing I find with the few anti depressants I have tried is I cannot sleep while on them.
Strangely enough, even through the anxiety, my sleep was not disturbed much. My hot flushes are much better so that's not a problem any more.
A few days ago I said I could not go on without some kind of medication...now I don't think I will try another one.
I honestly don't know what to do next except try telling myself "it's only adrenalin and it will go away eventually".
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It's horrible feeling like that isn't it ! I said that I'd never try ADS again after trying several ones and having awful reactions previously but I was so bad and desperate I would have taken anything to feel better ! Luckily found one that suits me this time though. It's funny though how we all try various types of hrt until we find the right one for us but don't seem to be prepared to do the same with other medications,well I know I was like that. ;)
All can suggest is see how you go in the coming weeks,it's good that your flushes are diminished on hrt,however if the anxiety seriously impacts your life you will have to consider something else,different types hrt,mindful meditation,CBT,relaxation DVD,or a different AD.
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I can't tolerate AD'S either. Tried once and never again. Shaking vomiting the lot.
Have you tried a book called Self Help For Your Nerves by Clair Weekes. It helps you understand what is happening and how to cope with it. It's old fashioned but very clear and helpful. You can get it on Amazon for not a lot.
I hope you start to feel better soon. I understand how hard this part of meno is.....but it does pass. My mother suffered badly and she came through the other side. She once told me it's not something that suddenly just goes but over time it slips away. Hope for us all.
Honeyb
x
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Thanks, honeybun, will order that book now.
Dazned, I think the reason we are reluctant to try so many anti depressants is the terrible way they make you feel; like you are dying/crazy (well even crazier than before you commenced them, I mean).
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I know what you mean ,we're all different and you need to do what's going to work/help you . I've tried various hrt that have also made me feel horrendous ,it's all trial and error unfortunately for us all. Hope you find your solution soon.
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Some medications can cause the opposite effects! Some ADs can cause restlessness and agitation - my Dad suffered when taking one, I used to walk for miles with him as it was the only way he could cope. STOP what you have been given, a drug should not make us feel worse! There were several ADs which I had to stop within 48 hours as I couldn't tolerate the nausea.
Try some relaxation therapy for a while: 10 mins. 3 times a day. Deep breathing. Muscle clenching, relax - all the way through the muscle groups from toes to skull. It does take practice!
Viruses can cause anxiety because we don't eat …… and low blood sugar can cause anxiety surges. Don't worry too much, you will begin to feel better once your body stops fighting the Germ. Take on plenty of liquid, swallow Paractamol to ease any lasting aches/pains/fever.
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Hi CLKD...I am very good at relaxation therapy, have done it for ages.It works for short periods of time. Sometimes the awful feelings are so powerful that nothing helps for long...I'm sure others agree? The involuntary muscle clenching was beyond my control, believe me. As a side effect of the AD's no amount of relaxation therapy will help. I am eating now but not much.
Woke this morning with the feeling of dread and low level nausea and it's my grandson's 5th birthday party. I have to hide how I feel and somehow get through the day.
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You're spot on about low sugar causing anxiety surges. I only had a light supper last night and missed breakfast this morning. By midday I was feeling really jittery and having little surges of anxiety.
Finally had a big lunch at about 2pm and within the hour felt much better (and stuffed).
If your blood sugar gets low does your body release adrenaline to compensate, and we interpret the adrenaline surge as anxiety? Does anyone know?
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I think so :-\ ………. it's usually the basis of my anxiety, i.e. I haven't eaten properly for a few days.
Lyn - how are you this afternoon? Ginger biscuits can ease nausea.
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I started to suffer very badly from anxiety two years ago. I used to shake if anyone spoke to me and I couldn't even leave the bedroom for months. I had never been like this before. I'm 58 and started the menopause at 54. My GP gave me citalopram but I wasn't able to take them as the side effects were terrible. I tried oestrogel and utrogestan but the anxiety seemed worse with that. I tried meditation, swimming, running, as I have always been done a lot of exercise but that didn't help.
A few months ago I went back to my GP and asked if I could try Evorel conti patch, I started with a third of a patch and am still only using a third. The other thing I have done in the past few months is to change my diet, I don't have any sugar and a low salt diet. I also do the Linden Method which has helped a lot.
I feel a different person. I meet lots of friends every day for coffee and am enjoying myself. I swim in the open air every day and run a few miles and also do yoga. I make my own bread and for friends as well. Just never thought I would feel so much better after the last two years.
Hope this helps you, as I know how bad anxiety can make you feel.
Vickypkx
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Hi girls, thank you for your messages. I spoke to my lovely GP and he said I am showing a severe allergy to SSRIs and SSRNI's and to see him in 48 hrs when the adverse effects have worn off. I don't know what he has in mind but fingers crossed.
I still feel awful but not quite so bad as the adrenaline surges are less powerful.
What to try next? I have booked for hypnotherapy but it will cost 200 dollars and the health fund only rebates 35 dollars! I don't know if it will be worth such a large amount of money for something which may or may not work. It makes me so angry. 50% of Australians have private health insurance which costs a small fortune every month and they give you back a measly 35 dollars for a 200 dollar account! The only reason we stay in private health is the waiting times for surgery etc in public hospitals here is horrendous and if you are not in private health you are penalised, tax wise. That's my rant for today, ladies, sorry. I'm sure your health system also has its problems. At least we can see whichever doctor we like...or several GP's. We do not register with a practice here.
A friend of mine is calling in soon for a cuppa. I am lucky to have good friends. She has been on Prozac for 20 years and tried unsuccessfully to come off it. I never want to end up like that. I really do wonder about these drugs sometimes, given my horrendous experiences lately. I know they help some, but...?
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Prozac is known to be difficult to stop taking ::) - it made me feel like I was walking on 7" heels …… after 3 days I knew if I took any more I wouldn't get out of bed. My GP told me that this new drug didn't have any side effects: I told him that if there were any I would find them ::)
How do you feel today? You may find that hypnotherapy helps. Maybe your Doctor can recommend other coping strategies or an emergency drug to take when anxiety overwhelms you.
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Hi CLKD. Still feeling awful. I am like you...if a drug has side effects I will find them, too. I think the GP will send me for CBT. I saw one psychologist but she did not tell me anything I didn't know or do already. As for the hypnotherapy...here's hoping.
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Hi Lyn bless you! I know how your feeling I've been blogging here for the past week as I've basically gone cold turkey from 12 years of AD Dosulepin and recently Mirtazepine. Never will I ever take another!! I'm super sensitive mind, I know they work well for a lot of people. I'm looking to try 5HTP it's herbal and the reviews are brilliant. Take a look on Holland & Barrett website at the reviews. I hope this helps.
Good book Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers. Very helpful coping strategies for life.
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Some people can tolerate side effects that I found impossible to deal with :-\.
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Orchid, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you are feeling better soon. Best wishes.
CLKD you have a good point there. I agree.
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Hi everyone, just wanted to tell you the latest. My wonderful GP has decided to try valdoxan, a pro melatonin medication, which may help. He says it will at least help me sleep if nothing else. He's going to speak to two psychiatrists and ask their advice re any other anti depressants I could possible take without incident but i don't hold much hope! Wish me luck with the pro melatonin!
I cannot have progesterone in my HRT as others do, as I have no uterus and my doctor says it could cause more problems than it cures. He wants me to stay on the oestradot patch. I am very fortunate to have the best GP on the planet. He looked at me today with such compassion and said "I know what is wrong with you but i can't seem to find a medication to help you due to your allergies." Maybe this valdoxan is the way to go...?
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My GP just spoke to the psychiatrist who said to try anafranil, an older tricyclic AD before the melatonin pill as he feels this would work better. I am not so sure but as my GP said, the psychiatrist is the specialist and sees more of this than he does. So it's back to the surgery tomorrow to pick up yet another prescription...hmmmm.
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Hi lyn
I am concerned as to why you are going down this route of ADs when you said in your first post you have never been depressed before, and you suffer from such side effects? You are bound to feel rough after a virus - I had a cold at the weekend which is just a minor thing but I still feel run down and tired even though the cold has gone.
You say you are on Estradot only - sorry I can't remember how old you are and where in menopause? I presume you have had a hysterectomy at some point - but did you keep your ovaries? Also what dose are you on? Maybe your patch needs increasing a little? If you had ovaries removed maybe your teststerone is low? There could be hormonal reasons for your anxiety - although as I said above don't under-estimate the post-viral effects. Hopefully you are able to get lots of exercise and fresh air and plenty of fruit and veg. Cod liver oil, a good tonic including iron - for a couple of weeks - until you're built up to good health again.
My view would be to try all the non-drug methods of dealing with the anxiety at least for a few weeks and see if this can help - eg the NoMorePanic site http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/ and books and techniques that many have recommended on here - before going down the route of ADs which as you say are difficult to come off once started.
CBT sounds like a start - if it's with someone good!
Hurdity x
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Lyn have you tried acupuncture? it worked really well for me for a while before the life stresses I was under sent my hormones over the top. I've also changed my diet and cut out sugar and caffeine - I was a big tea drinker and now I just drink herbal tea. I also don't touch alcohol. I also do exercise regularly. If you haven't tried these changes, I would suggest doing them as, at the very least, they will support your body in whatever treatment you settle on. I have a long standing practice of meditation which has also helped (as has yoga). I also take HRT now - a patch and a pill.
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Hi ladies,
Hurdity: my GP says the medication for anxiety and depression is the same and my reading seems to bear this out. I am certainly becoming depressed lately! I had a hysterectomy but ovaries still there. The patch was increased to 50 from 37.5 but it caused too much nausea so I went back to the lower dose. Have just had blood tests as my GP wants to check on thyroid function. I had a thyroidectomy for goitre 15 years ago and they accidentally removed my parathyroid glands too as I haemorrhaged during the operation. The parathyroids help with calcium metabolism and I have to take a lot of calcium tabs to rectify the problem. He's also checking my vitamin B levels, magnesium, vit D, calcium etc which I usually get checked twice a year anyway but it was all forgotten with the onset of this anxiety!
Greenfields:I do not drink alcohol, do not have caffeine, exercise, meditate, have tried acupuncture (way too expensive to continue and did not help), practice Tai Chi regularly and , when not nauseated, eat healthily. The only thing left is hypnotherapy. Having read extensively on this subject of menopausal anxiety I have come to the conclusion it makes absolutely no difference if you lead a healthy lifestyle or not when it comes to being more susceptible to the anxiety. I have friends who sailed through menopause with absolutely no worries at all...two of them smoke, drink and think the lettuce on a Big Mac is their daily quota of vegetables! I agree that being generally healthy has to assist in managing anxiety but I have run out of ideas. My GP doesn't want me on medication either but I don't think I can manage to cope much longer. I will get the prescription but I will wait a few days and think about whether or not I want to take it.
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Your GP sounds supportive :medal: and if in contact with specialists, is covering more basis than many seem to do! [bases?]
Some ADs ease anxiety too. If you don't have a womb I don't think that you require progesterone?
Could it be that you are sensitive to the coatings on some medications rather than the active ingredient, or even with the mix that the active ingredient is padded out with? Would a liquid medication be preferable? Do you fill in the Yellow Card when you get a 'bad' reaction? Apparently a patient should be offered these but I have never been handed one ::)
Let me know how you get on!
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I know I must sound like a stuck record... ;D
ADS are used for bad anxiety not just depression. If the hrt doesn't have any effect on your anxiety you can try various things ,mindful meditation,CBT,yoga etc. Plenty of exercise,walks,good diet can help.
Some of us need both hrt and ads. I personally don't care what I have to take to feel reasonably human and if that's what it takes so be it ;)
Hope you find something for you.
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Dazned - I have said for years, I would take heroin :-\ if it meant I never had another panic attack :'(
So far once I got medication that didn't have nausea as a side effect, although not a cure, ADs have given DH and I a Life again.
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Hi Lyn
I am a sufferer of Hyporarathyroidism too after Thyroid surgery 23yrs ago...its a horrible business when my calcium plays up I suffer from awful anxiety with the symptoms of low calcium too all that tingling, cramps its awful! I too take a lot of calcium and have been in hospital on a IV a few times.
I don't take any AD at all as the side effects scare me, I have learnt to not let my anxiety bother me and most days it remains mild. I just want to ask have you had your calcium and Vit D Magnesium etc..tested lately as low calcium makes anxiety a lot worse. Its a symptom of low calcium,
How much calcium do you take? are you on any activated Vit D and do you see an Endocrinologist?
best wishes x
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Lyn I'm using tapping EFT for anxiety...You Tube a lady called Julie, works for me! I'm just off AD's cause of awful side effects I'm going to try 5HTP supplement that makes serotonin. The reviews are really good, take a look at Holland & Barrett website. I know what you're going through believe me!! Best book for me was FEAL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY Susan Jeffers. Good coping strategies. Hope this helps, take care. X
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I never found any of those 'self help' books helpful :-\ - even if the author had suffered with anxiety, I felt they were written by people who had no idea how disabling anxiety can be.
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Interesting replies, ladies. CLKD: I've never heard of a yellow card here in Australia and I'm a nurse. Must be a British thing. Also, you obviously have found an AD which does not cause so many side effects? You say it's not a cure, so how exactly does it make you feel better, if you don't mind my asking? I really want to know.
I agree with all of you who say they'd take anything to feel better...I would too but everything so far has made me feel so much worse I am still hesitating to try another AD. I am having hypnotherapy on Wednesday so we shall see...
Crazydaisy, I have just had blood tests yesterday and will know the results on Monday. Wouldn't it be so simple if all of this were due to low calcium or low thyroxine levels?
My GP is very fussy and thorough, believe me, as I'm a very fussy nurse. I would not have stayed with him for 30 years if this were not the case. I am the type of nurse educator who makes sure all patient care is thorough. Maybe I am too fussy in life? a common trait here, perhaps? But without the complainers/fusspots would anything ever get changed for the better?
Orchid, I will look into the tapping, thank you.
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Well it's not a cure because I have underlying depression, both clinical and organic which can break through. Also I feel 'hung over' some mornings ::). I take 5mg morning and evening. If my brain becomes depressed for more than 3 mornings I up the dose to 10mg at night and 5mg in the morning for 5-6 days or until I feel less 'low'. My GP is Ok with my self medicating. Feeling hung over is far better than being unable to get out of bed at all. I have to take a maintenance dose for Life.
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CLKD, at least it helps you live your life, eh. So sorry to hear about the depression. It must be very debilitating indeed. You didn't say exactly what the medication is? If you don't want to say, that's fine too, just curious.
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Well Meno-brain here, swallows the meds morning and night but can't remember which I take : >reaches for packet< - "Escitalopram 5mg' night and morning. Plus Propranolol (beta-blocka). Emergency med when necessary, can't remember the name think it might be Lopremine (sp)
Now at least I recognise when my brain requires chemical support. Before I didn't know I was becoming depressed, my GP saw me walking through the village 1 morning and phoned that evening, telling me to attend the next day. I hadn't had ADs for a while so he re-started me …….. a Psychiatrist came to the house eventually as I was a danger to myself, she recognised the cyclic pattern and recommended a low maintenance dose for Life. I didn't want to take something for ever but it's improved our Life ;).
Now if I could get rid of the blasted anxiety :bang: ::)
How are *you* feeling this evening?
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I will have to check but I think the one you are on made me much worse! i am feeling quite well, actually. Long may it last.
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Some side-effects - I couldn't cope at all.
Glad you are feeling a bit better !
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CrazyDaisy...you were spot on. It was low calcium. I have increased the dose and am crossing my fingers.
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How did you find out?
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Hi lyn, you will soon feel better, I know when my calcium is low I feel awful and anxious, it is a symptom of low calcium. Have you joined http://hypopara.org.uk...they are very helpful and have a great facebook page for support.
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Thanks, CrazyDaisy, will check out the website.
CLKD...I had extensive blood tests for everything on Friday and my GP rang yesterday and said the calcium was very low. This hasn't happened since they removed my thyroid years ago (I have managed the calcium problem well with tablets and 6 monthly blood tests) but apparently menopause can muck things up!
I am off to have the hypnotherapy today as I want to manage my anxious responses better than I do. I have the rest of the year off on sick leave but need to psyche myself up to return in January as husband says quitting work is not a very good option. I have to agree. :-\
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Tell Husband that your Health is more important?
I wonder how I would suspect my calcium levels are low :-\ ……..
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CLKD it is highly unlikely you have low calcium unless, like crazydaisy and myself, you have had thyroid surgery and damaged your parathyroids as a result, so I wouldn't go there. It is a rare medical condition following surgery.
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:thankyou: ……… you probably said earlier in the thread ::) ……..