Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 03:11:47 PM

Title: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 03:11:47 PM
I've been thinking about this for some time, wondering why to be honest.

So....is your anxiety purely meno related or have there been events in your life past or present that you can link to it.

Is it something that would have happened anyway, meno or not.

Are some people pre disposed to this kind of thing and does the menopause just rob us of our ability to cope.

I wonder if there will be a recurrent theme, or if anxiety is just random.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 03:31:45 PM
Anxiety is good for the body.  It is a release and warning which goes back to our cave days - the fight - flight response.  Something to do with the autonomic system ………. so the whole anxiety 'kick' has a set pattern i.e. the gut stops digesting (believe it or not), enabling the blood to go to the limbs which are required to react.

If you watch a bird/animal which is frightened, it will drop a pooh as it flees.  Lightens the load  ::)

So whilst anxiety is good as a warning system, if we are subject to the same or similar events during our Life then our body becomes over-sensitive and for me, anxiety is a bad warning.  So having been raised in a dysfunctional, noisy, rowdy household my anxiety was triggered very early on.  Nothing that I have done has altered my responses to similar situations.

It becomes a learned pattern of behaviour and response rather than a necessary warning system.

So when I owned animals and the responsibility took over and caused anxiety, the only way to relieve symptoms was to rehome the cats  :'( ……….
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Kathleen on March 23, 2015, 03:42:58 PM
Hello honeybun.

I have always been an anxious type of character but for me the menopausal anxiety is in a class of its own. The whole experience feels different, more chemical, with strange surges of fear that arrive out of nowhere. Being nervous about an event is one thing but fretting about things that haven't happened and are never likely to is frankly bizarre. I also think that although thoughts and feelings are experienced together the surge of anxiety comes first, jeez there have even been times when I am calm and find I can't worry about stuff! Strange to say that I am comforted to read the posts of other women who say they were very laid back types before the meno hit so this has to be hormonal.

I agree that meno does rob us of our confidence which makes coping with all the changes extra hard.

I wish I had answers for us all but for now it's just a case of onward and upward but hey, at least we have each other!

Take care.

K.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 03:50:55 PM
I for one have never ever been an anxious type,quite the opposite! Now I can't cope with anything out of the ordinary,sometimes not even that. Think that is why I find anxieties so bad it's not me and I m not good with what I can't control !  :-\
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Good thread Honeybun


Exams - when I was 11-16 - music, ballet, swimming tests; eventually 'O' Levels, driving test, singing on stage or in the choir - however, once I got 'going' that anxiety would dissipate
Meeting new people
Eating out
Holidays …….. all have the ability to cause anxiety responses which I can no longer control
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Limpy on March 23, 2015, 04:03:22 PM

Anxiety is good for the body.


 :o - If it's so good for us why does it feel so £$%$£% awful?
It may have been useful when we were hunter gatherers, not entirely sure that is still the case.........
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 04:06:59 PM
But we are still hunter gatherers and are still fleeing from modern day 'sabre tooth' tigers  ;) - different circumstances but same responses.  We no longer get up with the dawn and go to bed at dusk, we now chase the alarm clock to get to the station on time to get to the office to get the work done to please the Bosses = fight response.

We go to the supermarket - hunter gathering against long queues, too much choice, too many packages to read so that we know if we are eating/not too much salt, sugar, roughage ……..


It's when the anxiety is controlling that it loses it's usefulness ………….
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 04:15:35 PM
I think I was always a bit anxious....nervy child.

I also think that over the years like most people I have had to cope with some traumatic stuff....the difference being then I coped. I dug deep and got on....where did that woman go.

Now the simplest stuff can knock me for six. Waking every morning with the tummy churning feeling is frankly tiring.

What puzzles me is I started HRT a couple of years before anxiety struck.

If I was getting a pretty constant dose of hormones with relatively few fluctuations why did I become anxious.

Perhaps it would have happened anyway....meno or not.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Limpy on March 23, 2015, 04:20:19 PM
But we are still hunter gatherers and are still fleeing from modern day 'sabre tooth' tigers  ;) - different circumstances but same responses.  We no longer get up with the dawn and go to bed at dusk, we now chase the alarm clock to get to the station on time to get to the office to get the work done to please the Bosses = fight response.

We go to the supermarket - hunter gathering against long queues, too much choice, too many packages to read so that we know if we are eating/not too much salt, sugar, roughage ……..


It's when the anxiety is controlling that it loses it's usefulness ………….

I'me glad to hear that anxiety is not an issue for you CLKD, you can obviously control it.
Doesn't work like that for me, it worsens my MS and my legs and hands stop working.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 04:25:06 PM
I have NEVER said that I can control anxiety  :-\ it is a HUGE issue for me  :'(
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: rosebud57 on March 23, 2015, 04:43:57 PM
I think anxiety can affect anyone at anytime.  I have had it more than once and it was especially bad in my teens and early twenties.  My husband had a spell in his forties and used to get panic attacks that resulted in him fainting.  This happened several times and not always at convenient times (once at work and once when driving).  He then had one in his sleep which was terrifying as I thought he was having a heart attack.  It was after this that he went to the doctors and was referred for talking therapy with a psychiatrist. He would not take meds as both his parent had taken them nearly all their lives.  He recovered but has to be reminded every now and then that the cause was being a perfectionist and not to slip back into his old ways.

My youngest son also suffered badly due to unemployment.  We actually paid for therapy privately, as none suitable was available on the NHS.  It cost £138 an hour and although it helped immensely it has taken several years to come out of it completely.   He was thrilled last week that he managed to go to the dentist, for the first time in years, and have 2 fillings.  He, like me uses meditation and mindfulness techniques.

The trick is not to give in but find the best solution for you and understand that the person who sits next to you at work or serves you in a shop, may well be suffering too.

It is such a common problem and a product of our complex world so don't give in, fight back as peace of mind is as important to health and a healthy body.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 04:54:58 PM
Oh I don't give in, it's not in my nature. I've stopped fighting though as that made it worse.

Is there anything in particular you would recommend for mindfullness as some of the books I've looked are not difficult but not explained particularly well.....or did you go to classes.


My mother suffered during her meno years but it did get better.....maybe it's genetic.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: thorntrees on March 23, 2015, 04:55:48 PM
Like Honeybun I was I suppose quite nervous as a child. I was an only one and my Mother was I now realise not very stable mentally, thus she tended to stop me from doing things she considered dangerous like riding a bike, flying etc. Once I left home I was able to be more myself and got on with things, teaching for many years and following Hubby around the country as a service wife. Of course like everyone else we coped with traumas, eldest daughter having major heart surgery , youngest one going through a period of school refusal, deaths of parents etc . None of this was easy but I got on with it, even going through cancer treatment didn't phase me too much but then came 'meno'. I just find it hard to believe that the change in me is not related to hormone levels, the physical symptoms are hard to cope with but it is the anxiety and emotional upset that I find so difficult. The sensible side of me knows it is silly to worry over things, especially as Kathleen says ,things that haven't happened and probably never will! But it's like I no longer have control over my state of mind. I have never taken HRT so that is not a factor , I do take a low dose of Citalopram and try to practice mindfulness and that helps-dread to think what I would be like without it!. Can only hope the day will come when I wake up feeling at peace with myself and free of anxiety. Convinced the basis of my anxiety is all the upheaval caused by menopause, but open to the idea that there may be a predisposition to anxiety in some more than others.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: rosebud57 on March 23, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
Honeybun,

Both my son and I use books and CDs by JON KABAT-ZINN.  He was recommended by my sons therapist.

I have his book 'Wherever You, Go, There You Are'.  It's a strange title but the book is very helpful.  Also check out his meditation CDs.  My son has one and I have a download on my tablet. I bought the CD for my sister when her husbands illness started to get to her.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: rosebud57 on March 23, 2015, 05:19:25 PM
Just found this Youtube clip so you can see what you think. 

If waffles on at the beginning so be patient and it get better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Joyce on March 23, 2015, 05:19:55 PM
My mum suffered terribly with her nerves from early 40's, though I wasn't old enough to know it then. She was 41 when she had me. Meno kicked in pretty soon afterwards from what I can gather.

Then age 7 my father passed away, making her much worse. I was bullied at school at that time, I refused to go to school so got smacked & screamed at for best part of 2 years. I always managed to get to school in time by running, as my not going would have made things much worse at home.

We moved to different area, new school was much better, but I seemed to get blamed for things. So anxiety was very much a part of my life from age 7.  Life was much easier once I married.

I was fine until about 7/8 years ago, but much more so in last 2 years. 
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 06:48:18 PM
So hormonal upheaval increases any anxiety we are prone to?

As for 'giving in' - I don't have a choice.  Once it hits I am over-whelmed.  I can't move.  I can't eat. I can't function.  Unless I take the emergency medication  :-\ which usually knocks me out.  Then I worry in case the GP won't prescribe any more  :-\

I tried relaxation techniques on Friday morning but they didn't work.  My gut got tighter and tighter and I was almost at screaming pitch.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 07:08:31 PM
Really sympathize CLKD ,it is awful when it gets to that stage  :-\

At the risk of sounding stupid. ....have you considered/tried all the AD options available now ? I'm sure you probably have it was just a thought  ;)
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 07:12:33 PM
All thoughts gratefully received.  I've been through ADs etc. since 1988/89/90.  Valium on an as-necessary basis.  Relaxation therapy.  Fortunately I have a very supportive GP and a loving husband.  When I'm OK I could take on the World.

For example, 3 friends are off on a tour of Asia for 6 months - my anxiety levels rose immediately when they were telling me, with great excitement, about their plans  :-X ……… I get the same response when my anxiety level is high, when watching 'escape to the country' type programmes - what's THAT all about  :-\
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Limpy on March 23, 2015, 07:20:14 PM
Anxiety is just the pits.
I was fed coffee with caffeine today, not what was ordered, have felt jittery, ratty and jumpy ever since.
Apologies to anybody I've offended, it wasn't intended.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 07:23:23 PM
Thought you would have explored every avenue  ;)

Do you know if any new ADs have become available since the 90s just I thought,as I told my doctors when I was desperate I would eat shoe polish if it made me feel better!  :-\
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Limpy, don't be daft, we know you better than that.

CLKD is it depression because you can't do what you want, or anxiety while you are doing it.

I have never suffered from depression so really don't know how it goes. I guess like most people who haven't had it we think it's an extreme case of being down in the dumps. Flat, no motivation. If the main issues are anxiety...fear based what do anti depressants do for you. I genuinely don't know.

Anxiety for me is fear.....of what who knows cause I dont. I don't know what I think will happen to me....faint, be sick, need a loo that I can't find, make a fool of myself. None of those things have ever happened....yes I have needed a loo urgently but have always found one.

That's how I try and cope with a few things these days....nothing really bad has happened. That's what I hang on to. I can now stand in a supermarket queue, I can go into shops and wander. I can go on short train journeys, and bus journeys . I can go into a quiet cafe and have a cuppa. Not that long ago they were impossible. There are lots of things I still struggle with.
I did try ADs but they made me feel very unwell.....which added to my anxiety  ::)


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 07:47:18 PM
Thanks rosebud.....off for a look.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Limpy on March 23, 2015, 07:50:10 PM
Thanks Honeybun  :thankyou:
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:04:22 PM
Honeybun - I have had panic attacks since aged 3.  I was diagnosed as anorexic at age 5. No one asked why I didn't eat.

Panic in case I was sick.  Or saw/heard anyone else sick. So it was easier not to eat.  So my body was hungry but I mis-interpreted those feelings.  For over 30 years.  So anxiety is engrained.  Anxiety has the ability to stop me in my tracks and send me running for home ……….. I have driven from town and not remembered any of the journey.  However, when I began having panic attacks at home - the longest was for 3 days - no-where was safe  :'(.  Valium as necessary helped for a few years and now I have the emergency drug which helps but I don't take it unless panic sets in.  On Thursday it set in by mid-morning but I didn't take the drug …….. I managed somehow to nibble and eventually managed a banana.



Depression is a separate issue.  Not feeling low, I get that too.  Organic Depression for me keeps me in bed.  Unable to lift head from pillow.  No energy.  No interest.  ADs lift those feelings. I also have situational/clinical depression.  Fortunately the medication works generally.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: everyones mum on March 23, 2015, 08:07:30 PM
Being depressed brings anxiety, they are connected
Mindfullness, finding peace in a frantic world by mark Williams, is a very good book.
cbt for dummies is another great read
I have just started Yoga and I have just had the most calmest week of my life. The 2 books above are also what I am using. You can do all the things you used to do and enjoy them again, just need to work at it and persevere. I have gone from full scale panic attacks (again) to tranquillity. The feeling I have had with me all week is the same feeling I get on vallium !!!  and hubby is grinning from ear to ear  :)
You have to open your mind a little, practice the coursework in the mindfulness book and put some of the cbt into practice, it really does work xx
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 08:12:33 PM
It's great you have the meds that help.

Emetophobia is a dreadful thing, stopped me taking a job I would have enjoyed very much. I was offered a teaching assistant course with the promise of a job at the end. I could not have coped with sick children....I could manage my own....just  ::)

It's one of my big problems, not that I will be sick.....I don't like it but can cope, it's in case others are. Blood I can cope with but not sick....in a stranger just panics me beyond anything that could be considered reasonable.

Guess we all just manage the best way we can.

I never expect to be free of my sickness phobia, I've had it for forty years, but for the rest.....I live in hope.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 08:13:17 PM
Honeybun I don't know what causes my anxiety ! Just starts I've got nothing to be anxious or depressed  about in fact just the opposite ! Last year everything was tickety boo,money wise ,etc. has been the best ever. So something has got to be out of balance somewhere .I was so very against ADs despite being told by gp and friends who are nurses that they are also prescribed for anxiety I had very bad experience in the past when I tried 3 different ones so I gave up but was desperate so now tried another one which has worked so far thank God! How I don't know ,guess how does it help some women with hot flushes! No one seems to know,and I got to the point of I don't care why as long as it does . :) 
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:15:49 PM
Depression and anxiety can be connected: they are NOT always connected.  I had panic attacks from age 3 but didn't have depression until I was much older.  I had hormonal depression but that was different.

One does not feed the other.  They can.  But it doesn't always happen.  One can become depressed due to health issues which can lead to anxiety ……… but it doesn't always happen.

CBT did NOTHING for me because my problems began within hours of birth.  Believe me, I tried every possible Course going in the 1980s/90s.  Claire Weeks did nothing for me.  Talking therapy did, venting with a stranger helped enormously.  It gave me coping strategies which helped at the time - now the anxiety is different and over-whelms me.  I know what I'm supposed to do but once the physicality of it kicks in  :-\  :'( ………. even now if I hear people shouting at each other then the anxiety kicks in, so I avoid Pubs on a Sat. night! and am not comfortable in crowded places.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: everyones mum on March 23, 2015, 08:22:14 PM
Do you have anything that relaxes you CLKD?
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 08:26:30 PM
CLKD can so relate I'm not as bad as you ,bless you,but once those physical things start they just swamp you and its so overwhelming it's so hard to get them to subside,and if people have not been there you can't possibly describe it to them. Last week when I went to work one colleague asked how I was now and as was trying to explain I could see her eyes glaze over and she just said never mind you have your holidays soon that will sort you ! I so wanted to punch her  >:( I was waiting for "pull yourself together " at which point I might have just done so !  ;D
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:27:47 PM
Now that's a good question.  Yes.  My evening bath though when very depressed I was unable to sleep longer than 5.30 a.m. and could only get into the bath, sluice down and get out.  So my relaxation is a deep bubble bath, Very Good Book and a cuppa.

If I am feeling absolutely fine then I don't need to consciously seek relaxation.  Some situations that I would expect to cause anxiety levels to rise often don't  ???  :-\ ……… on the other hand I can be doing stuff and suddenly I'm running for home.   :'(

Hormones must be involved though not necessarily sexual hormones.  Adrenaline being the main one involved in the fight/flight response.  Even though I know what the brain's response is to danger/excitement, even though I know that I have never been ill in public, not found a loo; those physical feelings take over and become real because they are: real.  Despite my Mother telling me it's all in the mind  >:( - well yes it is but it's REAL  :bang:
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:29:14 PM
Yep you have your holiday to look forwards to but hey, that brings it's problems which 'they' don't understand  ::)   :beat:.  The worse thing anyone can do is ask how I am  ::) because then I have to decide: but I can be OK one moment then running the next and try explaining that to 'them' ……….
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on March 23, 2015, 08:35:32 PM
That really sucks ! To be that up and down must be terrible for you  :-\
But you here to tell the tale and give us your pearls of wisdom which Iam grateful for  ;)
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: everyones mum on March 23, 2015, 08:37:16 PM
If I am feeling absolutely fine then I don't need to consciously seek relaxation

Maybe relaxation on every day would help. Building some breathing relaxation into your day and practicing it for a few weeks may help. cbt for dummies is super for changing neg thoughts of 'I can't' What if ect ....
Its early days for me but my god I like how I feel at the moment. 4 weeks ago I was on the verge of agoraphobia (again)
Relaxation sounds too simple but if taken seriously and worked at it can be great
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 08:38:26 PM
When asked how I am I always just say fine thanks.

No one is really interested to be honest. There are two people who can read my face and don't have to ask, hubby and my daughter. My sister can tell by my voice on the phone. She always knows when I am struggling.

I just want people to think I am just the same as I always was.

No ones business but mine.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:44:31 PM
 :thankyou:  …… Dazned

 :congrats: - Everyones Mum - tried the CBT, relaxation therapy - have the tapes.  It didn't work for me, the idea was to practice twice a day until the relaxation became automatic - no one told my autonomic nervous system though  :'(

Honeybun - I agree, nowt to do with anyone else  ;).  Some people however expect an answer …...
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on March 23, 2015, 08:54:56 PM
They can expect what they like CLKD. The older I get the less what other people think concern me to be honest.

Guess we all just keep plodding along and making the very best of the good days/half days/hours.

I'm always fine in the evening. Everything done that had to be, slippers on, cup of tea to hand....bliss. Till it starts again in the morning.
I'm thinking of trying a beta blocker at night to see if that helps with the early morning wobbles.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 23, 2015, 08:58:49 PM
It certainly helps mine!  40mg Propranolol at 9.00 p.m. with my AD.  Stops that surge on waking!
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Suzi Q on March 26, 2015, 11:48:05 AM
I take Lexoton 6mg yesterday and today I had to take a Beta a feeling of utter fear came over me slowly last week
Mine goes back t childhood as Ive said before we all have a story mine was a battered child  by a mental MUM
Not her fault 10 in 1939 her Mum had died the pre January of pancreatic cancer the only 1 so far in 3 generations
So her 56 yr old Dad was left with Mum 9 and son 7 and 2 other daughters 17 and 16 at the outbreak of war 1939
2 older daughters joined the Wrens by Jan 1940 he had 2 children and he was a river Captain Pilot on the Mersey
Bringing the Convoys so Mum and her brother were evacuated Mum was sex abused, She was removed
Taken to her MUMS sisters farm in Ynos Mon (Anglsea) with her brother. She never recovered
She had manic depression sever personality disorder uncontrollable rages and became addicted to Tranx then
I suffered as a child from Urticuria google it it will make u sick all nerves and stress at 5 to 15 when I left home.
It wasnt till my late 20s that i developed utter sadness and heart skipping Thats the 1st time I had Betas
It stopped the feeling of utter terror. It went off for years then came back out of the blue on and off before meno
And after meno like now Post meno for 20 years yet I still tale Lexoton and when needed Betas like this week.
If we knew what caused it@could end it Pharmacuts be out of buisness I did recog therapy for 3yrs once a mnth
Best thing I ever did cos it released all the pent up hurt and pain as a child but nothing can change it thats life!
So sometimes like this week it comes back OK I say Dad died 11 weeks tomorrow I spent from NYE till 29th Jan
In Wallasey UK flying from Ozz getting us 1000s of dollars in debt. Flying on the 8th to UK for 5 days Venice Paris and Rome till 30th April. I dont really want to go Im still in 1st greiving mode and planes dropping out of the sky kamakazi pilots and I HATE flying abso HATE it with a PASSION Dads house is being sold solicitors bla
The ABSO last thing I want to do is leave MY home at the moment I dont want to go anywhere never mind
3 weeks in UK@EU hotel to hotel Im not in he right frame of mind plus the weathers not looking good
It was all paid for even the day trips last Sept and it seem a death 3mnths earlier isnt classified as insurance cancellation So off we go when its the last thing I want so am I surprised Ive got the fear back not really
Dad died  entire thing was a nightmare YET I coped 100% in fact somedays forgot to take Lexoton Life hey? x
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 26, 2015, 12:19:47 PM
SuziQ - you were running on adrenaline.  Now reality has kicked in and of course it seems and is a HUGE way - to leave your home in Oz when you could chill ……… be yourself and do what you need to.  You know that once you get over here you will be OK, it's the intermediate bit - flying.  Sad that the plane appeared to have dropped out of the sky but don't read the News, it's all speculation …….. Life sucks. 

What does Bobbles think?  If you feel that you can't travel between Hotels once you arrive then stay put.  Rest.  Let the Hotel Staff take over i.e. food, washing up, laundry  ;)

Take the BetaBlocka for at least 5 days ……… give yourself a break.   :bighug:
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Suzi Q on March 26, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
Hi Clkd
Im trying really I am Ive got my grandson this weekend and as much as i love him the last thing I wanted
Not just the day etc its from Sat lunch till Sun afternoon/ Hes running around now and we havent got the house
Up and running no gates etc got the cot highchair pram and a few toys we bought them for our place
But son and dinlaw asked 5 weeks ago as it was her bday sons taking her away to a nice hotel overnight etc
I adore my grandson but its hard work and I need to as u say chill. He doesnt sleep just like his Daddy didnt
Bobbles will be as useless as a chocky teapot BUT I cant let them down they need this break,
Her parents refuse to babysit other than a couple of hours so they can play Trivia. Or so they can have a meal
But they always go to sons and dinlaws house to b/sit and they only live 5mins away we live 40mins away?
Not going HOME for the 5 days in UK landing in London spending 5 nights in Winchester@Stratford up on Avon
Then on to Europe for 15nights I couldnt face it. We canncelled the trip for 2 weeks later and rebooked the plane
To land in London not Manchester. We were spending nearly 3 weeks in UK but now Dads gone? And its not fair to the family we just mooched on them for a month starting the supposed happiest night NYE we arrived 10am
Didnt exactly help they cancelled the NYE party etc were there for us in everyway accomodation food time/
Bobbles told me tonight hes booked a smoking room in Dubai we are stopping the night so no jet lag no time!
IM sure I will enjoy it when we get there weve bookd in to all the same hotels in Europe we did in 2010
Gosh remember that our trip we had t can the day before cos of the Voilcano?That was booked for April 10
We ended up going Sept 10 talk about History repeating it self. Cos of the delay from last Sept to April
Gave me time to buy some lovely clothes in Outlet places so I will be very well dressed@Bobbles too.
I keep thinking he NEEDS this we NEED this IM finding since Dad I want to be with JUST Bobbles@its not healthy
So 2 weeks now I will be shopping in Primark in SWinchester then off on a Midsummer Tour we found Causton
Its a lovely Market town about 15mins from Jane Austens house and in Stratford Im going to the Theatre !
Both places weve stayed at before same hotels ONE dead posh a country manor the other a B@B both lovely
thanks for your advice love Suzanne xxxxxxxxxxxxx
PS as for washing in Paris which is the last leg Ive found A Lauderette in Rome and Venice hotel can do it hehe
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on March 26, 2015, 06:23:04 PM
It's the thought that suddenly this trip is so close  :o ……….

I'm sure that one the Grandson arrives you will be OK - Calpol to hand  ;) ……… Dubai that sounds a long way from here  ::) but Stratford on Avon isn't  ;)

What you going to see at the Royal?
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 11, 2015, 05:09:28 PM
Looking back I first remember a spell of feeling dread/anxiety at bedtimes when I was about 9? Terrifying at the time. But it went away. Then in my early teens my parents temporarily split and my Mum went to pieces. She lent on me far too much for emotional support. Again I found this terrifying and the feelings of dread/anxiety came back. But again they went away. I never got nervous at exams. Or my driving test. I was always very outgoing to the point of being audacious sometimes  ;D During my teens and twenties I suffered with classic PMS e.g. irritability/tearful/feeling fed up. But never any anxiety. Between times I was perfectly happy and confident.

It was only after I had my first baby and had PND that I experienced true anxiety. This manifested as full blown terror. Terror at being left alone with my baby. I was terrified of my own baby! Terror that I was trapped with them for at least the next 18 years. The terror was irrational. I firmly believed that my baby would stay a baby for years and years and would never gain any independence from me.

Gradually it faded away. But it took a couple of years. Then I was absolutely fine for years and years. Among my family and friends I am known as the confident, strong, capable, bolshie one  8)

Then the recession hit. My husband is self employed and ever since we have suffered huge financial worries. Somehow we have always scraped by, but it has been very, very hand to mouth some months. But I soldiered through each month. Just kept stomping on and on. But in the end I think the constant worry finally eroded away my emotional armour at just the same time as my hormones decided to start packing up to leave. Really bad timing. Especially as for the first time since I've known him, my husband was suffering with low mood and was very withdrawn due to cumulative work stress/money worries.

I think I could have weathered the financial worries. I think I could have weathered my hormones packing up to leave. I think I could have weathered my husband's months and months of low mood and withdrawl. But I couldn't handle all three at once. I don't think anyone could?

The bricks in my emotional defences started to crack, and once it started it happened very quickly. Within a couple of weeks I went from being 'normal' me to suffering huge waves of crippling anxiety. Feelings of doom & despair. Insomnia. The irrational terrors I had experienced with PND were back. Terrified of being left alone. Terrified of going anywhere new. Terrified of it getting dark outside.

Logically, I think I would always have struggled with mood swings during peri menopause. All the literature and my consultant pointed out the connection between PMS/PND and peri issues.

But would I have suffered so much if we had had financial comfort and stability and if my husband had been his usual positive, gung-ho self? No, I really don't think I would. 
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Amandajane46 on April 11, 2015, 06:28:24 PM
I never suffered anxiety or depression before peri menopause I was always calm n laid back until this menopause nightmare I never even knew what menopause consist of or anything about it 😡
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 11, 2015, 06:54:07 PM
CLKD re: confused why you're feeling heightened anxiety when hearing about your friend's travel plans and watching 'Escape to the Country'. I bet your anxiety is heightened because you can't but imagine yourself in 'their' shoes e.g. going to a strange/new place and doing strange/new things etc. And when anxiety is simmering in the background, just the thought of being somewhere new and surrounded by unfamiliar things is pretty much guaranteed to bring the anxiety roaring to life.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Sarai on April 12, 2015, 09:37:30 PM
I have a long term back ground of anxiety. Started as a kid, scared at night, no parental support. Crying not allowed, ever. Even when I broke my arm. Then as a teenager scared to go to sleep, used to sit up, curtains open looking out at lights on the hill beyond. Lost both grandmas and dad left due to an affair all the year I was 16. Mother couldn't help me, just had to cope herself.
Had PND with DD, yet happy while pregnant. Had PND with DS perfectly content while having difficult pregnancy, no fear at all. morning anxiety kicked in then. Later pregnancy losses, but no crippling anxiety, but great sadness. Then had PND with DD again. Consultant planned to give progestagen injections, but after first one my throat swelled up so that was abandoned. Hence PND kicked in. Cue antidepressants yet again, there I languished happyish for 14 years then I decided to come off them. But after 6 months I would have happily died so I went back on. I've been fine the last 4 years until I had 3 month cancer scare, surgery, then I find an allergic reaction to vitamin D. I know hormones are all over the place, periods all over the place, hot flashes, tingling but worse by far now is crippling anxiety. So much so I'm a shadow of the woman 3 months ago. I'm letting my family down as I am too scared to go abroad. I'm can't imagine not being in my bed right now. I get spooked in my own lounge. I feel like I've been haunted. Impossible to explain to those who have not had it. I hate it so much. I just want me back right now.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 13, 2015, 12:00:36 PM
GRLee - probably right, the moment I read her message about going abroad my anxiety kicked in.

Sorry for your news Sparkle - shock can cause all kinds of internal problems  :(

Sarai - having to cope alone is OK until large problems arise!
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 13, 2015, 06:25:15 PM
Hi Sparkle. Money worries are evil aren't they? You assume that you're dealing with it because you're still plodding on, but underneath your sense of well being is being eroded by the day.

We had to suffer a big drop in living standards which was a bitter pill to swallow. Luckily our marriage is strong but it's hard when you have to count and justify every penny spent, especially when you've been used to a few luxuries. But actually I adapted quite well. I think the real damage only started when my husband stopped being Mr Positive and became withdrawn and stressed. He stopped reassuring me that everything would be alright and just kept listing everything that was wrong. He stopped making plans. Stopped being pro active. Not like him at all.

Seeing him so changed and 'reduced' for want of a better term really, really frightened me. I think it was then that my anxiety started and was just exacerbated by my hormones playing silly buggers. I honestly believe that prolonged exposure to extreme stress can change your hormonal make-up. My cousin's eldest child nearly died several times as a baby due to a medical condition. She was under immense stress and worry for 4 years. She then went through the menopause only in her late twenties. I don't think this was coincidence? Obviously she was probably genetically pre-disposed to an early menopause. But at only 28?

With everything that life threw at you (and I am very sorry to hear of your sister, what a horrible shock) it's no wonder that your hormones tipped you over the edge. Does the HRT help you with your anxiety at all?

I know exactly what you mean about feeling you can't cope with anything unexpected anymore. I'm just the same. I only want what is familiar and 'safe'. I feel I have lost most of my verve and am a pale shadow of how I used to be. I still feel flickers of the old me, which is lovely, so I hope that HRT will help me find my way back to that person again.

Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 13, 2015, 06:32:18 PM
Maybe on a little positive note. My mother had a troublesome menopause and was dreadful with what used to be called nerves. There were so many places she would not go and so many things she would not/could not do. Even I remember and I was little as she had started her meno three years after I was born.
In her early 60s she really improved a lot. She took up new hobbies, went dancing, got married again after my dad had died.
I have asked her what happened....she says there was no big turning point but little but little she just improved.

So ladies, there is hope, it will get better.......keep going.....and that includes me.

Oh and for those that don't know....my mother is now nearly 93.....and an old b****r  ;D


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 13, 2015, 06:32:31 PM
Sarai you have my every sympathy. You have really been through the mill. It's clear that your hormones are your own worst enemies.

I totally get how you were frightened to sleep, and used to sit upright watching the lights outside on the hill. When I am 'bad' I get frightened at the thought of sleeping and get a bit obsessed about having lots of lights on. I think it's because I basically feel very scared (for no rational reason) and need to feel there are people around me, and that normal life is going on. Having lots of lights on reassures me. I HATE it getting dark outside. Or going into rooms with no lights on.

I can also feel spooked in my own house. And I hate the thought of not being in my own bed. I just want to feel safe and secure and surround myself with everything that is familiar. Irrational, but there you go.

Have you read Professor John Studd's website? With all your issues of PMS and PND I think you will recognise yourself in several of his case studies. You probably suffer from HORMNAL depression/anxiety which is very different to conventional depression/anxiety.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 13, 2015, 06:39:42 PM
That's reassuring to read honeybun  :)

Had your Mum suffered with her nerves prior to menopause do you know?

My Mum suffered terribly with her 'nerves' from about 38. Started out of the blue really. She would suddenly panic and have to immediately leave the restaurant/shop etc. And I can vaguely remember her often spending several days in bed for no apparent reason. But then she had a hysterectomy (fibroids) at 43 and was put on HRT. She improved within a month. Was like a different person.

So there IS hope. I love to hear stories of people who have recovered from anxiety/meno issues. I find it very reassuring.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 13, 2015, 06:49:54 PM
No, no problems with her nerves at all until meno. She never made the connection until we spoke of it a few years ago. She is very vague now at 92.
My sister who is almost 14 years older than me remembers a very different mother.
She was almost but not quite agoraphobic. My dad did the shopping for her for a good few years.

My dad died when I was 19. Mum was 56 and she kind of fell apart for a while....well quite a long while and I took on the role as the one who cared for her. She then met.....(at the cemetery of all places) a man who became her second husband. He encouraged her out of the house.....and then the confidence came and she was a different person as the anxiety that had dogged her for years just ebbed away.

There really is hope.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 13, 2015, 08:57:34 PM
I had such bad nightmares for a while in the 1990s that I was afraid to go to sleep.  I also have evenings when alone when I suddenly find myself dashing around, checking doors/windows are locked and closing curtains …… I've even been known to shove a chair under the door handles  ::) - the feeling is very intense and usually happens when I'm tired. 
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: babyjane on April 14, 2015, 10:24:34 AM
I only just found this thread.  thank you for all the posts here.  Once again I can stop thinking that I am unusual or odd, well at least for a little while.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 14, 2015, 12:18:31 PM
 ;D  All the World is strange, except you and me: and even you're a little bit  ;)

Anxeity background this morning.  Been shopping.  So no more pressure for the day - hopefully it will ease.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on April 14, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
CLKD big hugs from  8) Cyprus chin up .
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 14, 2015, 02:02:14 PM
 :thankyou:  how are you 'over there' - soaking up the sun probably  ;)

Anxiety going …….. as the day goes by.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: dazned on April 14, 2015, 02:54:29 PM
Yes we are! Had a bit of a wobbly day yesterday with bad headaches but good today,think I didn't hydrate properly  :-\
Hope you continue to improve today .
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 14, 2015, 05:40:38 PM
Hi Honeybun. Coincidentally my Mum never connected her sudden attack of 'nerves' with her hormones. And never connected her subsequent hysterectomy + HRT with suddenly feeling much better.

It was only when I started describing my symptoms of anxiety and low mood that she remembered that she had felt exactly the same. Just as suddenly and for no reason, when she was in her early 40s. And then she stared remembering how her Mum had also 'suffered with her nerves' in her mid 40s. My grandma would go for days not really speaking. Agrophobic. Irrational crying. She'd been very outgoing before this.

Funny how there's a genetic link?
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 14, 2015, 05:47:28 PM
Hi Sparkle.

I think it's quite terrifying what power your hormones have.

I've had a rubbish fortnight with low mood/pangs of doom/anxiety and was a complete MESS over the weekend thanks to insomnia. The thought of our holiday next month was filling me with anxiety and couldn't bear to think of it.

But today, I am 100% better. Feeling very upbeat and like my 'normal' self. Making plans with friends and looking forward to our holiday next month.

Okay so I have been taking HRT for 5 days now, but I think it's too soon to thank the HRT for my massive rise in mood. Instead, this has become my 'pattern' for the last year or so. A couple of weeks of doom/despair/anxiety followed by a few weeks of being completely back to normal.

Hormones  >:(

I am so grateful I found this place.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Sarai on April 14, 2015, 06:08:29 PM
My mum never discussed anything with me. But I remember finding sleeping pills and pills for anxiety in her cupboard and wondering why she needed them. But being a young mum in my 20's I never gave it another thought. I had not heard of meno back then. She passed 14 years ago now but I worked out she would have been 52 at the time. I think that says it all for me
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 15, 2015, 07:14:30 PM
That's interesting Sarai.

I genuinely think there is a strong genetic link when it comes to PMS/PND and then peri menopause issues.

One of my cousins has always had a reputation for being very 'difficult' on a regular basis. But looking at her behaviour through my peri menopause eyes I do think that many of her issues were probably connected to hormones. She would have stints of being very reclusive. I do know she suffered with insomnia. And I think her 'difficult' behaviour was just anxiety.

And looking back at my Grandma she very clearly suffered with PMS and really lost the plot in her 50s. So tragic that women suffer like this.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: babyjane on April 16, 2015, 08:22:48 AM
I am starting to look at my daughter in law's behaviour differently as she blows very hot and cold.  We never know what we are going to get when we visit  :(
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 16, 2015, 08:43:50 AM
The last few mornings for me have been awful. No rhyme nor reason which is the hard part. I'm having to work very hard just to get my clothes on and get going as the inclination is to go back to bed.

Not giving it. I will not let this rule my life.


Honeyb
x
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 16, 2015, 10:29:06 AM
Babyjane, we all felt a bit like that with my cousin. Never knew what you were going to get. You'd pop round for a visit and she'd either be very welcoming, or other days would refuse to answer the door (even though it was obvious she was home).

She once invited some family over for afternoon tea. But then refused to open the door for at least half an hour. When she finally did, they could see she had gone to a huge effort baking cakes and fresh flowers etc. When asked why, she just said she 'couldn't face opening the door'.

At the time I just thought she'd lost the plot. But now I think that sounds like crippling anxiety.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on April 16, 2015, 10:32:29 AM
Hugs to you Honeybun [big hug]

Is it anxiety which is laying you low in the morning recently?

I sometimes wonder if I get anxiety every morning now because I 'expect' to, if that makes sense? My brain is very programmable and is very quick to get stuck in a groove i.e. if I have to wake up at a certain time one morning, I'll wake up at that same time for days afterwards even when there's no need.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: babyjane on April 16, 2015, 04:03:20 PM
I find it is worse if I have too much to think about, or multitasking.

My husband is away at the moment and although I miss him and will be glad when he gets home, I have found I am not so wound up as I can take things at my own pace.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Taz2 on April 16, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
I understand that babyjane - I'm much better when I'm on my own.

Taz x
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: Limpy on April 16, 2015, 05:06:16 PM
The last few mornings for me have been awful. No rhyme nor reason which is the hard part. I'm having to work very hard just to get my clothes on and get going as the inclination is to go back to bed.



Oh heck, Honeyb that's a shame.
Is it anything to do with your sister being weird after your holiday?
Whatever, please look after yourself and those closest to you.

Hopefully things will look better after OHs hospital appointment tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 16, 2015, 06:30:02 PM
Thanks all.

Just the usual anxiety raising its ugly head. Tummy has been a bit off and that just throws me. Spent the afternoon in the garden and felt much better. Sis has been fine over the past few days. She has a lot to cope with, with regards to her hubby so I make excuses.

Hubby says I have been very quiet.....not like me at all and although I did not know her, the young girl that went missing in Glasgow really upset me.

Add it all together and you get horrid anxiety.

Got hubbies check up and blood tests tomorrow.....really rather wouldn't know to be honest. Just have had enough recently  ::)
Oh and having to go to my mothers early tomorrow, rush home, eat lunch and then head back in the same direction. It's going to be a long day.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 16, 2015, 09:21:09 PM
No wonder your anxiety is up all that background worry about fitting in seeing your Mother prior to lunch then DH's appt. : me, I wouldn't be able to eat at all  :-\
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 16, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
I will probably end up eating later I think.

Going to try for an earlier bed tonight so I won't get quite so tired.

Can only hope  ::)


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 16, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
I'm so tired I thought it was 10.30  ::)
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 16, 2015, 09:31:09 PM
It is 10:30 CLKD  ;D


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 16, 2015, 09:33:39 PM
That's OK then - don't have to worry if I'm going down with something and now know that I am tired ........ long past my bath time too  :D - really must get the bubbles out >wave<
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: honeybun on April 16, 2015, 09:35:54 PM
Night night CLKD.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: The Basis of Anxiety
Post by: CLKD on April 16, 2015, 09:36:43 PM
Thanks.  You lot are keeping me up   :rofl: