Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: Hurdity on February 20, 2015, 08:18:42 PM
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As there has been lots of interest in and support for a thread about alternatives to HRT and personal experiences so I decided to start one! Many women are unable to take HRT for a variety of reasons and my heart goes out to anyone who is suffering from unpleasant symptoms and cannot use HRT. If I was in this position I would be looking around for any alternatives that I could lay my hands on! I don't consider it to be my thread but just thought I'd start the ball rolling.......
The best place to start to find out about alternative remedies and treatments is on this website:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/remedies.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/phytoestrogens.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/otherpreps.php
There is a warning at the start of the page which says this:
Some women choose to avoid HRT and prefer to use more "Natural "methods to deal with menopausal symptoms. Although this may be effective it is not an entirely risk free approach and little information is available about the effectiveness of preparations.
And this:
The use of alternative therapies is a hugely expanding market. Try to ensure that the products you take are actually doing you some good and their planned effects are not overlapping - thus wasting money.
There is a really good NHS information leaflet on this site too, produced by Dumfries and Galloway Menopause Clinic entitled "Alternatives to HRT"
(updated link below)
https://www.womens-health-concern.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/03-WHC-FACTSHEET-Complementary-And-Alternative-Therapies-FEB2021.pdf
As for my own experiences - well I knew very little about menopause. I thought it would be a few hot flushes, a few missed periods, then - they would stop and magically all my symptoms would disappear and I could continue as before - but with no periods!! Hurrah!
When the hot flushes started to appear I ate huge amounts of food high in phyto-oestrogens soya and various seeds, which I sprinkled on my muesli, onto salads, and made delicious phyto-oestrogen cake - recipe courtesy of a friend of mine. This was an attempt to boost my flagging oestrogen levels. It certainly improved my diet but had interesting effects on my digestion - since someone told me that linseed is not digested, so I ground them up! All these seeds contain all sorts of concentrated beneficial nutrients so I knew it would be doing me good anyway. I don't eat quite so many seeds now but still include some nuts of different kinds and some seeds in my diet regularly :).
Another friend swore by Black Cohosh so I invested in 6 months supply and off I went. It seemed that they worked - and if you had asked me at the time I would have said they did - so maybe they did? However what I didn't realise either (because I hadn't read about it then) was that my hormone levels were going up and down and when the flushes stopped I had another period or two - so who knows whether it was my own hormones coming into play? There are mixed results (from trials) as to its effectiveness and little information on long term safety - and that especially worried me. It was a natural product - which I liked, but I was concerned about using a herbal product like this over a long period of time. I don't think I used it for longer than 6 months.
After a while and my periods stopped for much longer (5 months) I was working in a job where I had lots of meetings and including with younger men ;) and it became embarrassing to keep flinging off cardigans as well as going absolutely beetroot in the process of having a hot flush. Added to that I was getting no sleep and couldn't function properly - also still had two boys in early secondary school - so reluctantly at the time (I so wanted to do it naturally) I went onto HRT (the most natural type that I could find ie bio-identical preparations) and have been on it ever since. However I still eat a good diet and follow many of the recommendations in the leaflet on this site (link above).
I realised after the event that maybe whatever I had tried during peri-menopause might or might not have worked depending on what my hormones were doing, but perhaps wish I had read a bit more at the time so that I knew what was happening to me.
That's my story and some information. Hope some of you find it helpful - especially newbies! :) . Have you had tried remedies like this and what have your experiences been?
Hurdity x
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Before I realised that I was headed towards menopause but knowing it was on the horizon, I bought bread for a while but it didn't keep …… had seeds in but memo-brain - can't remember the name ::): tasty enough but I'm not a bread lover.
Linseed was supposedly 'good' to use but found it hard to grind up! and the oil was :sick02: so that went onto the compost. Used to improve my overall intake rather than instead of ……….
I think ladies find some herbals helpful initially but because hormones are up and down, those helpful effects don't last long!
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8 years ago I tried a product called Femal:
"Femal, a herbal remedy made from pollen extracts, reduces hot flushes and improves quality of life in menopausal women."
It worked ok for about 3 months but then stopped, it was becoming a very expensive way to deal with the flushes etc so I went on HRT.
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I took Menopace for a while a couple of months ago. Because you are meant to take it with your evening meal, and it's full of vitamins, I found it did nothing for my insomnia!
What has helped, I think, is taking magnesium citrate half an hour before bed. I am sleeping much better since I started taking it.
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I've posted this on the anxiety thread, but here's other things I've tried that seem to have helped -
Various supplements - fish , vitamins D3, C, B complex, probiotics ( not specifically for peri symptoms), iron.
Exercise - I try to walk my dogs every day.
Baths - lavender, and Epsom salts.
Sleeping - trying to be in bed and asleep before 11pm.
Mindfulness meditation.
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I'm one of the unlucky ones who spent hundreds on alternative therapies and supplements, with minimal effect (beyond my bank balance). The only thing which has noticeably made a difference is HRT. That's not to say everyone is the same though and I remain open minded.
One thing I did do was alter my daily multi vitamin to one without vitamin A and this seems to have slightly helped with my hair shedding. It was a friend who suggested it. Being in peri menopause, I also take a post pregnancy multi vitamin rather than one targeted at those at menopause (same company makes them) . The reason for this was that, from what I could tell, the contents suited my needs - as an active vegetarian with crazy hormones rather than no hormones - more than the one for slightly later in life. Only recently swapped so early days ...
Finally, I should add that is it could be worth having your current levels checked out professionally before self supplementing. I was convinced I had low vitamin B12 and/or iron and supplemented both. When I later had my blood tested, the doctor said he'd never seen such high levels and suggested I switched to a general multi vitamin rather than targeting single vitamins which, on occasions, could do more harm than good. My diet was better than I had realised (though I was found to be deficient in vitamin D which is in my new multi vit - probably because I don't like much sun!).
Will be interesting to hear what others have tried,
B x
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and made delicious phyto-oestrogen cake - recipe courtesy of a friend of mine.
Could you share the recipe please :)
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I would absolutely agree with honorsmum's list - definitely front line strategies to try to maintain in the long term as well.
I would add - 'be organised'. I find being on top of things helps to reduce my stress and anxiety. Piles of things that need filing and sorting, a cluttered house that is difficult to clean, not being able to find things when I need to, all add my stress and I can quickly become overwhelmed. My husband and I have become very minimalist and want to make life simpler. If problems arise I want to be able to deal with things efficiently, quickly and easily and being organised can really help.
Try to do a wardrobe edit once a year. Chuck out those old garments made of artificial fabrics which you can't wear any more and buy some cotton/linen layers that are more comfortable.
DG x
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I'm one of the unlucky ones who spent hundreds on alternative therapies and supplements, with minimal effect (beyond my bank balance). The only thing which has noticeably made a difference is HRT. That's not to say everyone is the same though and I remain open minded.
One thing I did do was alter my daily multi vitamin to one without vitamin A and this seems to have slightly helped with my hair shedding. It was a friend who suggested it. Being in peri menopause, I also take a post pregnancy multi vitamin rather than one targeted at those at menopause (same company makes them) . The reason for this was that, from what I could tell, the contents suited my needs - as an active vegetarian with crazy hormones rather than no hormones - more than the one for slightly later in life. Only recently swapped so early days ...
Finally, I should add that is it could be worth having your current levels checked out professionally before self supplementing. I was convinced I had low vitamin B12 and/or iron and supplemented both. When I later had my blood tested, the doctor said he'd never seen such high levels and suggested I switched to a general multi vitamin rather than targeting single vitamins which, on occasions, could do more harm than good. My diet was better than I had realised (though I was found to be deficient in vitamin D which is in my new multi vit - probably because I don't like much sun!).
Will be interesting to hear what others have tried,
B x
The problem with having levels tested is that the accepted "normal" range can be wide, and "normal" can be a long way from optimal. So, for example, the start of the "normal" range for B12 in the UK is very much lower than, say, Japan - which means a lot of people complaining of the symptoms of B12 deficiency are considered to be "normal" and not being treated.
Also, the standard B12 test only shows what's in your blood stream - not what's being absorbed. So, as a sufferer of Crohn's, my B12 may well not be absorbed but still show as ok in tests. An active B12 test is more accurate - but not generally offered on the NHS.
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I would absolutely agree with honorsmum's list - definitely front line strategies to try to maintain in the long term as well.
I would add - 'be organised'. I find being on top of things helps to reduce my stress and anxiety. Piles of things that need filing and sorting, a cluttered house that is difficult to clean, not being able to find things when I need to, all add my stress and I can quickly become overwhelmed. My husband and I have become very minimalist and want to make life simpler. If problems arise I want to be able to deal with things efficiently, quickly and easily and being organised can really help.
Try to do a wardrobe edit once a year. Chuck out those old garments made of artificial fabrics which you can't wear any more and buy some cotton/linen layers that are more comfortable.
DG x
Yes, yes, yes!
Nothing stresses me more than feeling like I'm not on top of things. It's further complicated by having young children, one of whole has ADHD and not only creates more chaos and stress, but needs routine and order.
Hubby and I had a rather heated "discussion" about this very subject last night.
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I totally agree Honorsmum, and nearly added a similar 'caution' to my own message. That said, when I stopped taking such a high dose, I noticed the tingling in my fingers reduced. Ironically, that was one of the things I had been taking it for! x
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This made me laugh (re organisation and being on top of things) as whenever I am very stressed or have a hard decision to make, I need the house tidied from top to toe before I can think straight. My partner really does not get this! ::) x
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This made me laugh (re organisation and being on top of things) as whenever I am very stressed or have a hard decision to make, I need the house tidied from top to toe before I can think straight. My partner really does not get this! ::) x
That's me to a T!!
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;D
Me too!
My hubby wouldn't bother living in a "lived in home " but me I just can't stand it, need a clear house and mind. I've even sent him up the loft to clear out and make sure it's tidy, it upsets my feng shui or whatever it's called x
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This made me laugh (re organisation and being on top of things) as whenever I am very stressed or have a hard decision to make, I need the house tidied from top to toe before I can think straight. My partner really does not get this! ::) x
Finally, someone else! I am just the same and hubby thinks I am mad ;D (http://;D)
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I am new to the awareness my hormones have played a part in me feeling less than 100% for the past year - I am not using HRT right now.
Things I did before and need to do more of now, lifestyle related:
Eat regularly - I can't afford to skip meals, eat on the run, every few hours I eat something for blood sugar levels.
Hair - I wash it less often and massage my scalp more, seems to help with the changing texture and quality, dry then greasy and sore scalp. I have a great hairdresser that makes me feel 'normal' about the changes, because I miss my hair having bounce and behaving (boo hoo ;) )
Skin - disaster! Redness caused by heat, blotchy and losing tone, really lost a lot of 'fat' or it's shifted! It wouldn't take on moisture for ages, so I started using less products and added a mineral water spray before moisturiser and to cool my face down when it was 'angry'.
Mindful Breathing - added two sessions into my routine, morning and evening, 10 minutes each time, calming, focussing and letting all the 'worry' go.
Strength - pacing, stopped overdoing things, noticed my energy levels couldn't cope with gardening non stop for hours and pushing myself, so I have changed, I now do everything I ever did but not all at the same time :)
Specific things that are still challenging but less so:
Sleep: I started not feeling tired at bedtime, I would have to literally wait until I was exhausted to go to sleep, the sleep was unrefreshing. My anxiety was always worse late at night, worrying and then worrying about how my sleep had changed, I was waking with adrenalin surging in the mornings, feeling completely fearful.
Strategies that have helped:
1. I accept that my sleep isn't how I would like it.
2. I let the anxiety happen, detach and try to ignore it.
3. I have various apps on my phone, with music or guided sleep relaxations
4. I no longer expect good sleep and when I get it, it's fantastic.
5. Recently I began night 'sweats', I saw my homeopath, took a remedy and the heat doesn't wake me anymore, it's still there, but low level, the same with the heat in my face.
Anxiety:
This is the biggie for me, mostly related to my symptoms that I didn't know where menopause. Why is my skin red? Why do I feel nauseas? Why are my feet freezing? Why have I got a burning sensation on my face in a particular area? Why is my t-zone greasy? Why have I come over with flu like symptoms that have now gone? Why is my nose stuffy and I am sneezing? Why is my face looking different, more lines all of a sudden? Why am I feeling shaky? Why can't I motivate myself? Where has my determination gone?
I was having rising panic, towards the end (before being told menopause) I was having panic attacks, I was trying to overcome something without success. Now, the symptoms are almost gone and I can't tell you whether that is my acceptance of 'change' or because my hormones are balancing or because I increased the following support:
1) Vitamins that I increased: B12, B6, B5, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vit C with zinc. Probiotics, Vitamin D. Hemp Oil for Omega's
2) Added more protein to my diet (I am a vegetarian), more pulses, wholegrains, flaxseed, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds and Hemp Protein. Protein has a calming effect on me.
3) Homeopathy - I have used homeopathy for many years, I have successfully used it to curb anxiety, to get me in a place to more easily accept the natural changes that are happening. I use a qualified homeopath and do not guess myself what remedies to take.
4) I began regular accupuncture last year - I have always been able to 'balance' my body myself and I felt totally unable to do it - after each session ALL my symptoms went away. If I entered the room with a burning face, it was gone, if I entered in a fear state, it was gone, if I entered with pain in my hip, it was gone. Yes, the symptoms returned but not for a good while and only just before my next session (every 4 weeks). No doubt in my mind that the treatment support ME to ride the waves of change and adjust.
5) Excercise hasn't really helped me so far, I usually feel totally exhausted afterwards and I think that has something to do with feeling totally exhausted BEFORE menopause symptoms.
6) Personal focus - I added things into my life that gave me immediate confidence, if I didn't feel 'myself' and didn't fancy doing things I used to do, or felt too tired, I realised that rather than get down about it and give myself a hard time I embarked on several small projects/goals that I could do easily and use as a booster.
Symptoms that have come and gone fleetingly since periods have vanished (for a while or for ever??? I don't know yet)
- burning and sense I wanted to go to the toilet. Not sure if bladder or vagina and it was happening at the end of my periods for the last year or so (?) - I increased pelvic floor excercises and now do these a few times a day wherever and whenever, I made sure not to go to the toilet if I had just been etc Increased water intake - symptoms have gone. I have vitamin E oil capsules that I will use if I need to, there is no dryness, so I won't be doing that just yet.
- terrible hip and lower back pain, linked to last period where I also had nausea and cramping. I had a massage and increased my gentle yoga type excercises - I am now aware of the need to move my joints, stretch my muscles and strengthen ligaments more.
All in all the biggest thing I have done is work with the changes, accept them and notice if they are getting worse, sticking around and causing a big problem and if they did I have acted on finding longer term help. So far, things have come and gone for me except for the sleep and anxiety which have been eased a lot by the things I have done.
I am intending to take some herbs for adrenal support - by that I mean a 'tonic', something to support me 'nutritionally' which is what I see herbs as. I will use a qualified practitioner to choose them. I am also going to ask them for herbs to increase moisture in the body as this seems to be the major thing for me with losing hormones, everything is much drier and long term I want to find something to support that (ligaments, skin, hair etc )
I seriously would love to not have this change, it's complicated and effects so many aspects of our bodies and minds, but I am riding the waves and hope to feel a 'new' if not changed me sooner rather than later. Complementary therapies and lifestyle changes are the cornerstone for me at this point.
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For me, the menopause made existing health issues, such as IBS and low energy levels far worse, added to the new problem of insomnia. I did have hot flushes and night sweats, but they were not too horrendous compared to many others and would not have sought any relief just for that.
I sought help from a homeopathic practitioner and a nutritionist for help with IBS, with the menopause being looked at as well. I spent a lot of money over several years, but nothing really helped consistently. I didn't consider HRT as my sister had breast cancer and because of the risks. But at the late age of 60 I have started HRT, though at a low dose. This alongside dietary changes, more exercise, and a change of attitude has helped. I talked to a counsellor, did a course with a life coach and some work shops all worth doing. I did see a reflexologist, which I loved and would still see if she was still practicing. Not sure how much it helped, but I felt great afterwards.
I am taking on board that it is as it is. Acceptance means you can relax. My body is doing the best it can and that my job is to look after it as best I can. I have to pace myself. This has been illustrated in the last few days. My Mum is in hospital and my mind wants me to rush around and sort everything, visit everyday, look after my Dad, but I can't. Today, I am resting, so I can tomorrow. Listen to your body.
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For me, the menopause made existing health issues, such as IBS and low energy levels far worse, added to the new problem of insomnia.
Listen to your body.
I am coming to realise that similarly, my 'weak' spots are being highlighted through menopause and upping my attention to those things has been what I have done so far. Thanks for your post, it highlights to me that it's a time of 'not knowing' and also experimenting with new things to feel good. x
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Gosh, Brightlight, what a helpful post. Thanks a lot for it. :thankyou:
Dulciana
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great post brightlight :) im on sage tablets strange they helped before quite quickly with night sweats even after a few nights, been on them nearly a week and waking feeling hot and nauseous which I didn't have before x
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The Bad Science web-site is somewhere to look when you are considering alternative therapies ……… Ben has a very dry sense of humour and tries to check out most 'new' stuff offered to people ;)
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CLKD - I know that you are joking though it could also be viewed as being a wee bit provocative given the current request from some posters that 'alternative' ways of dealing with menopause are given due respect. ;)
The thing is doesn't he also say that Pharmaceutical companies can manipulate data from trials when presenting their findings - witholding negative data. Ethics are a huge topic and I really don't believe we have absolute truth for either conventional medicine or complementary. I agree with this comment and it goes a long way to expressing my viewpoint on discussing alternative options:
" Ben has some important points, but those points are presented very much from an 'illness' perspective. Someday, instead of measuring illness, we will learn to measure healthiness, and we will begin to see the 'whole picture' of natural and pharmaceutical products for illness - and for health.
The simple truth is that patented medicines often do nothing for health, they are designed to fight illness. In many cases, they fight illness very effectively, but reducing the health of the patent. But in most cases, they are simply designed to fight 'symptoms' of an illness, with no real effect on health, or perhaps even a negative effect on healthiness.
Some natural products have similar results. Some natural products also have the potential to improve healthiness, but epidemiology does not measure healthiness, and cannot make this distinction. "
In the context of this thread, what has helped me is to look for where I have HEALTH and try and improve on that as well as ill health and appreciate I have options to manage symptoms whether via patented drugs or alternative methods.
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I do think it is vital to look at lifestyle choices regarding diet, exercise and the amount of sleep and relaxation you have to see if there are some positive and realistic changes one can make to help overall health and boost the bodies ability to help itself. I perceive this as the most natural way to treat anything; you then turn to other methods if this doesn't help.
The aspect of the menopause that is particularly challenging is what it does to our mind - dark thoughts and anxiety descend leaving one unable to think clearly about what is the best course of action with anything in life.
I would love to know what it is about oestrogen and progesterone that interacts with the brain and helps it stay in positive mode? I think I understood what the private gynae I saw tried to explain about the newer SRRI drugs - my understanding now is that they act on the brain to produce more serotonin which gives a feeling of wellbeing, so are far better than the older style ADs. He was treating his wife with these as she has had breast cancer and is suffering terribly with flushes and night sweats - the SRRI is helping those symptoms as well. I have always been very against any form of AD but after having this in depth discussion with this specialist I can see there is a place for such drugs.
To counter this, what other things can we do to help this terrible anxiety. We've already discussed Mindful Meditation - a cheap and positive thing for all to try. St.John's wort has been extensively researched and has shown to have a positive effect on mild to moderate depression. low mood etc. - though the contraindications are well known and St. John's Wort has to be taken with care and advice from a doctor or pharmacist particularly if you are taking other medication.
Traditional herbs like, Chamomile, Valerian, Hops, passiflora etc. which can be bought in a chemist, health food store or supermarket in pill or tincture form or as a tea to drink, are deemed quite safe. How effective these are I'm really not sure. Certainly switching to Chamomile tea instead of a caffeine drink like coffee or tea could be a good way to go. I actually like Fennel tea with half a teaspoon of honey - fennel is deemed good for the digestion and I like the taste better that chamomile.
One of my main problems is my overuse of painkillers, constant headaches and joints pains when not on HRT mean I rely painkillers too often to get me throughout the day. This results in me having stomach pain and feeling generally unwell - I know I have to stop taking these. Since going back on HRT I have had far less joint pain and far fewer headaches so far fewer pain killers. I do find Omega 3 seems to help with joint pain but I'm not sure why I get such terrible headaches - I think it is do with my sinuses as they get really dry with changes in atmosphere - lack of oestrogen seems to dry out everything.
DG x
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Dancing Girl, do you know much about St John's Wort?
As you may remember, I had a horrible time on SSRI' s a few years ago (although it did eventually improve, but only after I'd been through hell with side effects for many weeks). When I first started to feel anxious with peri symptoms, I bought SJW because it's said to be as effective as SSRI s but without the side effects.
However, my GP said I shouldn't take it because it is so similar to SSRI's that it would cause the same side effects. I'm a bit doubtful about the validity of this - I thought the whole point was that it DIDN'T have the same side effects?
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honorsmum - I'm afraid I'm that not clued up about St John's wort but I know it is very popular in Germany as a front line treatment for low to moderate depression. I'm sure if you do an internet search you may be able to find some of the studies and controlled trials that have been done. Whether the side effects are the same as SRRIs I am really not sure. I doubt that St. John's wort would be as powerful as SRRIs and therefore less likelihood of side effects??? Again I must stress that it is still a drug of sorts so should be taken with care and it may be worth talking with a pharmacist to get more information.
My son (who has the language disorder - he is 25 now) really suffers with anxiety and a few weeks ago I started him on a St John's wort tincture every day and his mood does seem to be generally better and I think he is sleeping better as well. I must do some more research myself to see how long he should take it or whether one should have a break of a few weeks. When I tried St.John's Wort it did upset my tummy. I know with some herbal remedies like echinacea you shouldn't take them for too long a time as there can be a toxic build up. If in doubt perhaps seek advice from a doctor who specialises in herbal treatment. DG x
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This thread is so interesting and informative
Thank you ladies
PN x x
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Although I have written about all the things I am doing to balance things, I just wanted to add that it is really really hard to find the solutions. Food and nutrition, including herbs, all have chemical reactions in our bodies; in some ways they can be seen the same as drugs and just like drugs, it can take a while for effect.
The frustration I have encountered is not really knowing what I personally need. That's when I think the relaxation, mindfulness and gentle enquiry of ourselves can come into play. If we can calm, we can look more objectively at what's going on and more likely to stick with a 'plan' and evaluate it.
I've seen such good support for women taking HRT and encouragement to stick with it, I think it's the same with alternatives and lifestyle changes.
Studies of women in Japan who naturally have a diet high in pytoestrogens and show less hormonal disruption than in the west have consistently had this diet, that's where I think we can definitely question whether phytoestrogens will work for us. Short term change doesn't seem to 'work'. It's a slow process.
Saying all that I am starting to appreciate the complex knock on effect of everything in our body. St Johns Wort raises seratonin but other things do as well and foods can raise it and stress effects it, sleep too. It really is a tricky balance. That's why I recommend seeing a specialist if you are going to make nutrition or herbs a focus for your healing.
I am agreeing that adding chamomile tea just when you are stressed isn't likely to have a big impact but drinking 2 cups of green tea regularly might have an antioxidant effect over time.
The treatment of anxiety and depression is fascinating and quite a bit of research is going on that looks at the complex interplay of nutrition on brain responses and finding non pharmaceutical ways of correcting the imbalance. Supplementation of amino acids etc. lots of interest in the impacts of nutrition in autism and adhd as well. The notion that the body assimilates or processes differently and that 'medicine' in the future might be the addition of these missing nutrients. The realisation that despite changing diet, it might not make a difference as the body can't process it or use it correctly.
It doesn't seem too far fetched to think that some of us are particularly 'brain sensitive' to oestrogen and progesterone and that the fluctuations compromise brain function in some way. Meanwhile finding the 'missing' link to compensate for that is still a trial and error thing. I've had great success with valerian for anxiety. Not tried St. John's wort.
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You make some great points, BrightLight.
The first time I had osteopathy, including cranial, I had a "healing crisis" afterwards - I felt nauseous, was retching and felt like I was going through some kind of detox for a couple of days afterwards. Obviously, I was very sensitive to whatever it was the treatment released.
Likewise, when I was prescribed antidepressants, I had a severe reaction to the initial dose and subsequent awful side effects to a lower dose - despite my GP insisting that this dose was sub-therapeutic.
It strikes me as strange that my daughter's ADHD meds (which are basically stimulants) are dosed according to her weight, but things like pain relief and antidepressants/sedatives are not. It seems to be more a case of standard doses. In my case, with regards to antidepressants, my GP decided that the side effects were because the dose was too low, and increased my dose - baffling logic?
This is what scares me about trying HRT, I guess - knowing how to tailor to individual need.
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Honorsmum - the logic is definately baffling and I think shows how sensitive our systems can be. I can relate to your 'healing crisis' experience, I am really sensitive to things and HRT also concerns me on this front, it's so annoying actually ;)
It took me years to validate my suspicion I was sensitive to dental anaethestic, my heart would pump and I would have near on anxiety attacks, my current dentist explained that there was adrenalin in some preparations, designed to direct any bleeding towards the heart......I now take the 'risk' of bleeding over the adrenaline and have injections without.
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Has anyone tried Reflexology? I've found that massaging my feet in the bath with an aromatherapy bath gel is really soothing and calming. Can anyone tell me a bit about Reflexology being used to treat menopausal symptoms? Thanks!
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Has anyone tried Reflexology? I've found that massaging my feet in the bath with an aromatherapy bath gel is really soothing and calming. Can anyone tell me a bit about Reflexology being used to treat menopausal symptoms? Thanks!
I have not had reflexology for menopausal symptoms, I can tell you that it works like other wholistic treatments in that the aim is to balance the whole body and not just focus on the symptoms as such. The practitioner will work on your feet which the system believes correspond to different areas of your body.
There is a page here from this website that has the contact details for the national association if you want to find a registered therapist - I loved reflexology when I had it, very relaxing.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/othertechs.php
In the Menopause Matters page for LINKS - it has one that goes to the womens-health-concern website which has a great factsheet on complementary medicine, it outlines reflexology there as well :)
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Has anyone tried Reflexology? I've found that massaging my feet in the bath with an aromatherapy bath gel is really soothing and calming. Can anyone tell me a bit about Reflexology being used to treat menopausal symptoms? Thanks!
I've recently had 2 sessions of reflexology for peri symptoms.
It was really interesting - the practitioner picked up straight away on allergies (I have very deep allergy lines,apparently), my large intestine issues, lower back problem and my heart.
In fact,I have eczema, Crohn's, and have been having palpitations for some months - so she was spot on.
She worked a lot on my heart meridians and trying to reduce energy in my large intestine while increasing it in my small intestine. She also mentioned my thyroid - which was interesting, because I was convinced I had thyroid issues before I considered peri as the cause of my symptoms.
I felt very sleepy and quite tearful after the first session, but much more energised the next day.
Definitrly worth looking into,Dulciana.
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BrightLight and Honorsmum - thanks ever so much for this. I'll look into it.
:thankyou:
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Wouldn't it be great if this could be moved into an Alternatives Headed Topic. Then when anyone was looking for information and personal experiences then it's all there and wouldn't get lost in amongst every thing else.
Although the other topic was locked perhaps Emma still has this request under consideration. I really hope so.
Honeyb
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I agree honeybun.
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I loved reflexology and was amazed how much my practitioner could tell me about how I was physically. I never told her what was going on health wise before a session. When I first went my feet would go into spasm went she got to the part of the foot related to the gut. I always felt great afterwards, but not sure how helpful it is long term. Best as part of a self care programme. I miss it, but haven't yet found as good a practitioner. I shall start looking again.
Emotional issues, often related to childhood experience and current stress have a huge impact on our health. It is a good idea to look at how we look after ourselves and how we think about ourselves....self esteem. This was brought home to me when I did a course with a life coach ( on the phone ). I have taken on board that I'm OK. I don't take on too much. I pace myself. I say no. I'd love to rush around, have boundless energy, but I haven't. Life can be good, whatever health issues you have. It's finding the joy in the small things. Happiness comes from within; it's not something you have to search for.
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Hi honeybun
Hope you don't mind me asking (I'm not very computer literate ;D) but if you put 'Alternatives to HRT' in to search bar would that bring up all the related threads so you could read them or just the ones that are current?
Thanks for helping :)
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If you do what you suggest then yes you would get posts on alternatives. But then you have to trawl through them. If it was a seperate header then all the information is there to hand. Also topics come and go so they inevitably get lost and takes such a long while to find.
Seems to make sense to keep them altogether in the one place :)
Honeyb
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Blimey I really need something to help my hot flushes.
Been off HRT for 3-4 months now & it isn't getting any easier. :( :(
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Hi Cazikins
Have you tried anything so far? Are they happening after certain triggers or just random?
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Hi Cazikins I know how you feel, the hot flushes/night sweats have well and truly returned with me too let me know if you find a solution, sage used to help with me but doesn't any longer x
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I am reading about Red Clover for hot flushes and night sweats, evidence suggests it can have an influence and reduce intensity.
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thanks Brighlight that's interesting to know I will have a look for that today and Im also emailing Dr Currie for advice x
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This is the information re Red Clover from the Alternative section from the drop down menu http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/newsitem.php?recordID=85 which you might find useful
Taz x
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so ive bought red clover read mixed reviews and as usual scared to take it due to possible side effects, sounds really stupid I know, last month I bough sage tablets they didn't work and agnus cactus, I think that's what you call it, made me feel sick, Im wasting money and getting nowhere :( xx
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I don't think that a month is long enough to give the sage tablets to work. A lot of the alternative remedies take quite a few weeks to build up in the system.
Taz :-\
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so ive bought red clover read mixed reviews and as usual scared to take it due to possible side effects, sounds really stupid I know, last month I bough sage tablets they didn't work and agnus cactus, I think that's what you call it, made me feel sick, Im wasting money and getting nowhere :( xx
I also suggest you carry on with the Sage if it seemed to work - it can take 2-3 months for these things to have an effect, much like vitamins often do. With the red clover option, if it helps reassure you, you could look for a Traditional Herbal Registration (THR) marking on product packaging – this means the herbal remedy has been assessed against quality standards.
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A gp recommended sage to me and I shall be trying it soon. Do you take fish oils, vit d3, vit c as these are also important and can make a difference in 4 weeks in my opinion xx
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After much deliberation I am about to get a herbal mix made up by a medical herbalist - it includes Sage and Agnus Castus and a few other herbs to target anxiety, hormone balance, better sleep and tiredness. I think it will be a couple of months for me to see. I have used over the counter herbal remedies in the past with good effect, getting someone to put one together means I can target a few things at once without doubling up with purchases and getting lost with all the info :)
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Sounds really interesting Brightlight. Let us know how you get on and good luck
Honeyb
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Hi Honeyb - I will definately report back. Advise given to me by a well known high street establishment where herbalists can help you choose and create the right support for you, I can go back anytime and ask questions and of course stop if they are 'too powerful'.
I once had chinese herbs and they were way too 'good' - detoxing the body too fast and I felt quite ill ha This time I have described my sensitive system and asked for gentle herbs - these are western herbs, so fingers crossed :)
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In my travels around the internet I came across this leaflet produced in 2011 by the Royal College of Obstetricans about alternatives to HRT for the menopause including some information about the efficacy and safety of herbal remedies amongst other things.
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/patients/patient-information-leaflets/gynaecology/pi-alternatives-to-hormone-replacement-therapy-for-symptoms-of-the-menopause.pdf
It's based on the full paper they also produced here:
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/scientific-impact-papers/sip_6.pdf
The latter paper was produced in 2010 so will be a little out of date but the main messages I'm sure will remain the same.
I also found this on the NHS - self-help tips for coping with hot flushes:
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/menopause/Pages/Menopauseselfhelp.aspx
I hope readers of this thread find thse links helpful :)
Hurdity x
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I have used chamomile tea for years for digestive and sleep problems and am finding it especially beneficial at the moment. I had terrible IBS when I was in my 20s and found drinking 2-3 cups of chamomile tea stopped it almost immediately (it's not a good idea to drink large quantities of chamomile for long periods as it can cause stomach irritation). I started drinking 1 mugful just before bedtime to aid sleep, and as a side effect, found my IBS vanished completely.
I am drinking lots of peppermint at the moment as it helps with the nausea. Even just smelling peppermint is helpful. It's also one of the herbal teas that is safe to drink frequently.
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Very interesting Dorothy. I like drinking Fennel tea with a bit of honey when my stomach is out of sorts. I heard many years ago that the Germans give fennel tea to babies with colic so I started drinking it to help - particularly when I feel nauseas. I do find it very calming on my digestion.
I do get nausea when I'm not on HRT - sometimes for days - and Fennel tea is all I fancy. DG x
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thanks Hurdity those links were interesting reading, I also use camomile tea v relaxing :) x
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I've tried Fennel and found it's good for upset tummies too, but sadly I hate the taste!
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Thanks Hurdity for starting this thread.
I used menopace, magnesium, various vitamins, and none of them had any lasting effects.
I was on femoston at the time, but it did nothing except regulate my periods.
I was still waking up feeling sweaty as if I had left the electric blanket on.
The only relief I have got is from 75mcg evorel.
I am coming to the end of a three month trial and am going to ask the doc for 100mcg, because, while the 75mcg has worked a bit, I feel that it is not enough.
As for anxiety, i dunno whether it's circumstantial or whether it's hormonal.
Some mornings, but not all, I wake up with butterflies in my stomach, feeling doomed and fearing the worst. This has been happening ever since perimeno started in 2009, at the age of 42.
I have got a lot of vulnerable areas of my life also, and am waiting for an ADHD test as the GP and psychologist think I may have it.
I filled out an adult ADHD questionnaire in my GP surgery and all/most of the answers I gave pointed towards further investigation.
That would answer so many questions for me. It would be positive if I got an ADHD diagnosis as I would get on the right meds, and right non drug treatment.
I don't know if I gave the alternatives long enough to work.
The magnesium did stop my flushes for about two weeks, and it was lovely to be able to go out and not feel extremely hot and sweaty.
The flushes put me off excercising and I would get them if I got stressed.
I have never tried agnus castus, sage, starflower etc.
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Love this new thread ......learning a lot....very interesting .
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Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have the dedicated section on Alternatives that a lot of us requested.
Unfortunately Emma had not given any response to our request. It's such a shame as obviously something that would benefit the forum and make it much more inclusive place.
I actually feel a bit let down for all of us who made this request, to have no answer to this seems a bit dismissive to be honest.
Honeyb
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I actually sent a polite little reminder message to Emma, regarding this issue. I have a feeling though that it will quietly be forgotten.
However, if you don't ask you don't get so you gave it your best shot honeybun :tulips:]
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I did too rosebud.
Such a shame because this topic will eventually get lost as all others inevitably do. Then we go back to square one. I even asked Emma if she could re open the request topic as she did say she was closing it down for the weekend.....that was quite a while ago.
There was such a lot of support.....I wish our opinions were taken a bit more in to account.
It's the members as well as the great information from Dr Currie that make the forum a special place.
I don't think MM would be the same without the very active forum.
Disappointing not even to be acknowledged.
Honeybun
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Honeybun, thanks for mentioning this (the request for a dedicated section) I had wondered if there was any response. There are plenty of women that can give guidance on responsible use of alternative therapies and treatments during perimenopause and beyond and there are sections on the website that encompass this, that's why I don't really understand why there isn't a full acknowledgement in this forum of this area of choice for women. Hmmm
Thanks for asking the question to the website team.
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I just wanted to write a little bit about my approach to health and hopefully share information that would be useful to women who try alternative routes.
I practise the philosophy of effecting minimal change in the body. By that I mean, only doing as much as is necessary to allow the body to find it's own balance again, for it to heal. The reason is because I respect the body is a complicated system and often times will demonstrate 'symptoms' that can resolve, given time and gentle support. When given 'too much' support it could result in apparently unconnected problems later, for instance, some people get stomach problems from using painkillers. Of course it isn't always possible or wise to continue 'suffering' - I am just suggesting taking a pause and considering a gentler approach first.
In a complex health problem I would always first choose a complementary therapy over conventional pharmaceuticals and attempt to effect minimal change. This can take longer than a pharmaceutical solution. All complementary medicine approaches take longer, herbs, accupuncture etc all need a while to effect a lasting change.
If a lasting change or pattern of coming and going of symptoms can't be achieved, then I would turn to pharmaceutical management. For me, it isn't an either or situation. I believe there isn't enough information out there for women on how to access and use complementary medicine safely and effectively and not enough respect for the part it can and does play in peoples lives.
Used with guidance, care and sensibility, I really do feel there is a big place for "first line" use of complementary medicine in supporting the menopause. It's an ideal solution to low level chronic problems - that is why there has been research and approval from the NHS for the use of things like accupuncture for sufferers of chronic headaches. Chronic problems cost the NHS a lot of money and complementary medicine can provide a solution for patients.
So, if you are trying anything 'natural' try and give it some time, find a practitioner of your chosen route that can support you while you get better, give you the guidance and confidence you need to support your own health. Every modality has a national register of qualified people, take your time to choose one that suits you. If you are buying remedies from a high street shop look for the THR symbol, which means the product has been assessed against quality standards, and you'll have information about how and when to use it.
If you only choose a registered practitioner and buy with the THR symbol you are choosing responsibly and can expect to be supported if you encounter any problems.
I have worked within complementary medicine as a Shiatsu practitioner for 15 years and received treatment and support for my health for from highly qualified individuals who also embrace conventional medicine and would always suggest using it in conjunction with complementary treatments if necessary. I hope this information is of benefit to some.
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Great post Brightlight. Thank you, I really like your reasoning.
Also thank you for your support for a dedicated section. It's just a pity no one seems to be listening.
Honeybun
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A very interesting and reasoned post Brightlight.
I'm sorry too Honeybun that it has not been possible to set up a dedicated thread for Alternative routes. As you say replies will get lost amongst other posts and when people have posted before about alternative approaches it often seems to turn into a discussion about how nothing really works but HRT, which is not very helpful to those who for various reasons HRT is not an option.Thank you for trying anyway.
Thorntrees
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My GP is not remotely helpful, and I don't think there is any possibility of me having HRT until I move to a new area, so I don't have any choice but to look at alternatives at the moment. This topic is being very helpful as apart from this forum, I am very much having to deal with this on my own and without anything prescribed by a doctor.
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What could possibly be the problem HB, why do you think Emma is not responding to the request? It is such a good idea, as agreed by many
PN x x
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I really don't know PN. All the response I have had was a very short message to say that she was too busy :-\ and that I'm afraid was that.
Bit hesitant to start yet another topic about it as I was only trying to help and not cause any upset.
Think I have been patted on the head :(
Honey
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Not nice when you are only trying to help. We appreciate you trying x x
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For those who have been unfortunate enough to have breast cancer and are suffering from hot flushes, and need to find other ways of coping with them than HRT, as well as pharmaceutical drugs (?SSRIs) etc, there was a study done a while back which looked at the effect of exercise and cognitive behavioural therapy on the perception of menopausal symptoms.
I seem to remember it was publicised on here but members who are unable to take HRT might like to be reminded of this reported here:
http://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/20121013
I am sure the full study is available somewhere but here is the abstract:
http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/early/2012/10/03/JCO.2012.41.8525?papetoc
Hurdity x :)
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Bright light, excuse my ignorance but what is shiatsu?
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Wouldn't that post be helpful in a dedicated topic Hundity ....then it wouldn't get lost.
Ju Ju
noun
a form of therapy of Japanese origin based on the same principles as acupuncture, in which pressure is applied to certain points on the body using the hands.
Honeybun
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Thanks all that enjoyed my post.
Dorothy - sorry that you haven't yet found the support you need.
Ju Ju - Honeybun has explained Shiatsu, it's similar to accupuncture without the needles, it aims to maintain and promote health through balancing the meridian energy pathways in the body. Within conventional medicine arenas it has been used to great benefit in palliative care and the treatment of Multiple Sclerosis. I would say Accupuncture is better for acute situations, like backaches, headaches and can really move these along, in my experiences, both Accupuncture and Shiatsu are great at working with chronic, low level issues. Accupuncture us extensively used in the world of fertility, menopause as well. Shiatsu is less recognised, though it's principle is similar.
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Can anyone suggest a supplement that doesn't contain iso-soy-whatsits (estrogen mimics) but that still helps with mood, anxiety, stress, tearfulness etc.? Thanks.
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I'm not an expert Dulciana but I understand that St John's Wort is helpful for depression. It is mentioned in this leaflet I linked to earlier.
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/patients/patient-information-leaflets/gynaecology/pi-alternatives-to-hormone-replacement-therapy-for-symptoms-of-the-menopause.pdf
Look under "Treatments that work and are safe"
I would also have thought that any relaxing/calming therapy would be helpful, together with some of the mindfulness techniques & CBT that members have been disucssing recently?
Hurdity x :)
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2974895/First-Chinese-herbal-cure-given-official-approval-UK-Plant-nicknamed-pig-pungent-weed-renowned-treatment-aches-pains.html
Interesting article.
Honeybun
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I have worked within complementary medicine as a Shiatsu practitioner for 15 years and received treatment and support for my health for from highly qualified individuals who also embrace conventional medicine and would always suggest using it in conjunction with complementary treatments if necessary. I hope this information is of benefit to some.
Brightlight
Hope that you don't mind me asking you but from your experience would Shiatsu help chronic vulva nerve pain at all ? I have already tried chinese and western style acupuncture - had needles put in along the vulva edge and perineum to no avail. the acupuncturist thinks i have a trigger point in the muscle at one point but she was unable to shift it.
I have come off pain medication which only masks pain and messes with your head - i now just use Turmeric sprinkled on a meal as an anti- inflammatory.
As i have paid for the Acupuncture sessions - bar 6 on the NHS - i am reluctant to go off down another route that may not work either.
I am putting this on the open forum in case your reply can help someone else but if i have overstepped the mark please say.
Thank you
Hattie X
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Apologises that i have taken this thread slightly off Alternatives to Hrt for a moment !
Hattie X
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Thanks HB and Hurdity. I'll see if I can give these a try.
:thankyou:
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Brightlight
Would Shiatsu help chronic vulva nerve pain at all ? I have already tried chinese and western style acupuncture - had needles put in along the vulva edge and perineum to no avail. the acupuncturist thinks i have a trigger point in the muscle at one point but she was unable to shift it.
I have come off pain medication which only masks pain and messes with your head - i now just use Turmeric sprinkled on a meal as an anti- inflammatory.
As i have paid for the Acupuncture sessions - bar 6 on the NHS - i am reluctant to go off down another route that may not work either.
I am putting this on the open forum in case your reply can help someone else but if i have overstepped the mark please say.
Thank you
Hattie X
Hi Hattie
I don't mind you asking, I have no direct experience of this situation, but some understanding about trigger points. I appreciate the accupuncturist was giving their view, but it makes sense to me that a trigger point in the muscular skeletal system is somehow part of the picture. Have you been offered any form of physical therapy by your doctors?
For sure Shiatsu may help, however I would suggest a physical therapy that targets this issue more closely on the physical level. Shiatsu can help with this, it uses stretches and releases blockages in the whole body but would be a gentle more general approach and bearing in mind finances and your efforts so far my suggestion would be to go and talk to the doctor about physical therapies that would be available to you. If you have done this and need to look independantly, I can suggest finding a myofascial release therapist. They work specifically with trigger points, so perhaps a physiotherapist that also has training in myofascial release would be a good direction to explore. Talk to them first to explain the problem and see what they say and decide if they have the experience you need.
Other things that you may have tried and that I think would also help are diaphragmatic breathing, pelvic floor relaxation, self massage, relaxation and limit stress as much as possible.
Does this help with your quest? :)
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Thanks Brightlight
I have seen a specialist physiotherapist privately who did some internal trigger point release where she found tight pelvic floor muscles - it caused flares around the bad spot though and any release achieved - if any - has not been sustainable. I had to make a decision as to whether to carry on with the physio from a 'helpful' and financial point of view and decided after 6 sessions that it didn't seem to be helping.This physio was £130 per hour so it has to be worth it.
I try all the other things you mention except self massage.
A quest is a good word for it - i have read that these trigger points can solve themselves which is basically what i am hoping for now.
I may look into Shiatsu - i am favouring a more gentle approach now - i've had a nerve bock done as well - maybe all too invasive but you get desperate.
Thank you for your time in replying Brightlight - i still believe my body can get back in balance somehow.
Hattie X
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Hi Hattie - I also believe you will get this sorted in the end. I have myofascial trigger points in my shoulder and it has taken a long while to get them to release and sustain. I was told that our brains actually set up a neuropathway that needs to be 'switched' off, to stop the physical reaction leading to the trigger point. Myofascial pain release and all the things you have used do this but as you say, it can still persist.
Frustrating situation that I believe really does have multiple aspects to it and you seem to have all of them covered, one of these days hopefully the response will switch off! Shiatsu would definately be a gentle, supportive approach for you, it may be that your body will prefer this, rather than the direct physical treatment? If the body is in 'protection' mode and guarded, the trigger points won't release. Perhaps look for a Shiatsu practitioner that has an interest in womens health and on the Shiatsu Society register. Wishing you well with the quest.
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:thankyou: BrightLight
I have found a lady listed locally who has dealt with fibromyalgia - i am going to email her as she will understand nerves.
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Honeybun
All you can do is keep bumping this thread - several of us were passionate about the pelvic pain thread being made a sticky but Emma would not consider it. All you want is for information that is gathered/gathering together to be there for others to find easily.
Hattie X
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I purchased a wool duvet to help with night sweats. I'd never heard of a duvet with this filling and was a little sceptical. It won't stop the sweats but it takes the excess moisture from the body and 'so aids restful sleep!" I found it to be very helpful.
Brightlight - what did you find helped to support the adrenals?
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Brightlight - what did you find helped to support the adrenals?
Hi Sunnydays - I have a really worn out system, so I need to do a few things, but now they are just part of my day.
Making sure I have enough B vitamins, Vitamin D, High Strength Vitamin C with zine and magnesium. I don't eat huge meals and try to eat something every few hours, to give me 'fuel' at a constant rate and keep metabolism going. Breakfast is something I have always struggled with, in the winter I force myself to eat porridge and now smoothies, this starts the metabolism early so you are not relying on adrenals or coffee :) Licorice root is also good and I have licorice tea.
I also reduce stress as much as possible and practise relaxation/yoga every day for maybe 10/15 minutes. Excercise, but not strenuous and I have accupuncture every 4 weeks. The other thing is a good sleep routine which at the moment I struggle with - getting to bed before 11pm is ideal and getting a good 8 hours sleep. There are many good herbs to help with adrenals and a good herbalist can provide suggestions. Valerian and Vervain are ones I have used in the past and you can get these in teas, which would give a gentle support to the system :)
Above all, I think moderation in all things is what helps, no wild fluctuations in stress or blood sugar levels, gives the adrenals time to recover if they are tired.
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Bump for Briony and anyone else who is interested. The RCOG links about alternatives to HRT are about halfway through - one of them I also posted on the thread Briony started and the other will be in there somewhere :)
Hurdity x
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This is the first time i have looked in detail at the alternatives section and just wanted to add that in my late 30's when peri symptoms started without me realising it at the time I started to look at supplements to try and help. If its any help to anyone this is my experience.
I am a member of another site where I purchase lots of health and beauty items and had online access to a qualified pharmacist that specialises in alternative products / medicine. They have a good reputation and often write health articles for well known newspapers etc so I had confidence in the responses i got from them.
I started with agnus castus moved onto black cossh - initially both these helped up to a point.
I then tried sage complex by food science and found this quite good. I would have been happy to stay on it but with a history of gynae and breast cancer in the family I was advised to stop sage complex. This was the right call for me as I later found out I have BRCA2 gene mutation.
I would like to point out that anyone with a history of these cancers / genetic mutation should be very careful about supplements. There is a website foodforbreastcancer.com which was highlighted to me by the pharmacist mentioned above. There is a section on studies on various supplements that someone may find helpful. Its not my intention to scaremonger but to create awareness of this.
Unfortunately I also had adenomyosis and decided to have hysterectomy to alleviate this, so in some respects this made peri easier as i had no bleeding to contend with.
Within a few months of hyster my ovaries started to fail and I decided to have them removed due to my BRCA risk. Im currently on hrt until average meno age then have to go cold turkey.
Over the years ive taken or in some cases still am taking Vit E, buckthorn, hyaluronic acid, sage complex, curcumin, astaxanthin, mega probiotc.
In addition i have tried accupuncture which was helpful, reflexology when i was having gynae issues that was good she recognised correctly which ovary was causing me probs. i plan on trying reikki in the next few weeks and bought a yoga dvd to do at home.
What I have found minimises my meno symptoms to a degree is exercise cutting down caffeine and what is very clear to me is when i dont drink wine at night i sleep so much better. Im gutted about that one!!!
In summary i am very open to trying new health things and good luck to all of you, i hope you find something to suit you.
Linsey x
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Hi Linsey - I've only just caught up with this post.
Thanks for telling us all of this - it's very helpful and especially the warnings about phyto-oestrogens and breast cancer. I have the greatest sympathy for women who are unable to take HRT due to breast cancer or at risk of it, which is why it is so important that proper research is carried out into the effectiveness and safety of any and all alternatives to HRT - be they herbal, pharmaceutical, relaxation therapies, meditation techniques, diet and exercise. The new NICE Guidelines acknoweldge this research need (P26 research recommendations):
1 Women with breast cancer
What is the safety and effectiveness of alternatives to systemic HRT as treatments for menopausal symptoms in women who have had treatment for breast cancer?
Why this is important
Women with a history of breast cancer are rarely offered hormonal treatment for menopausal symptoms but the available alternatives are less effective. There is limited evidence from randomised controlled trials on the safety and effectiveness of options such as non-hormonal treatments, ospemifene, conjugated equine estrogen/bazedoxifene (CEE/BZA) or local vaginal oestrogen for menopausal symptoms in women who have had treatment for breast cancer. There is insufficient evidence on the efficacy and safety of non-pharmaceutical treatments in women with breast cancer and other hormone-sensitive conditions. Randomised controlled trials or large cohort studies are needed to understand the effects of these treatments in women with breast cancer , and to investigate if there is a difference in breast cancer recurrence, mortality and tumour aggression with different types of treatment.
I am interested that even with the BRAC2 gene you are able to take HRT but I presume that is your choice understanding the possible risks?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
According to NICE guidelines for HRT for those with familial breast cancer history and those with genetic mutation, as long as ovaries are removed then low dose HRT is an option till average meno age 51/52 to protect heart and bones.
I was told this by gynae consult / breast surgeon / gp and also read quite a bit on studies re this.
Initally i was on tibolone aftervovaries out but just not enough considering my body cant produce anything. The breast surgeon at an appointment seen the severity of symptoms and offered to prescribe venflaflexine and told me that she would send me to nhs homeopathic dr at nhs palliative care hospital who would work with me if necessary to make a personal remedy for my flushes and symptoms.
As it was changing to oestrogel has been better so i didnt need to. I prob take 1 & 1/2 pumps of oestrogel daily. No more than that. I manage reasonably well on that. My probs will be when i come off it. Watch this space.
Linsey x
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Aim to be within your individual recommended bmi limit.
Good quality supplements.
Hormone balancing diet.
Healthy lifestyle choices.
Good aerobic regular exercise.
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Hi Jari - great advice - we should all do this whether or not we take HRT - which is not a cure all if our diet lifestyle is not optimal too.
Hurdity x
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Absolutely Hurdity. We should all start by achieving all of these first. That's what I'm doing and I don't need hrt which is great. So, it's worked for me. :) x
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Jari, can I ask what kind of supplements/natural methods you're employing? You sound like you're doing well and on a path that's working for you! :)
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Hi weathergirl,
I take a probiotic supplement first thing in the morning.
Then breakfast: usually no sugar muesli with 2 tablespoons ground flaxseeds and some stewed cold prunes and juice with almond milk.
Then vitamins: multi 40+ (viridian), omega 3 (bio care), calcium + vit d3 ( viridian)
Trying to do minimum 4 days a week of one hour brisk walking. Good for bone health but also a good all round excercise.
After dinner: vit c 400mg and another calcium..
Trying to get my bmi down, currently at the higher end of bracket... what is your bmi weathergirl? X
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Jari, that sounds like a very healthy routine! I take a few supplements including Ashwaghanda for stress and extra Vit D, C, zinc and Magnesium. I try to exercise as much as is feasible with my work schedule. I like weight training as well as cardio. I spend a lot of time taking long slow walks at a nearby pond. Sometimes I'm out for 2 or more hours. These are just for relaxation but not about getting my heart rate up. I have found since menopause that I need far fewer calories! My BMI is almost 22 (just under). But in the past 8-10 years I've slowly gained 10 lbs that I may have needed. I am trying to stay where I'm at though. It's hard as there's not a lot of wiggle room with calories ;D