Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Hilary66 on July 24, 2014, 09:44:36 PM
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Please can anybody advise me how to stop this horrendous burning,my gyno says it's not thrush but the smallest bit of discharge irritates before I get a chance to clean it away.Ive tried ice packs yogurt sitz baths yes water based product and it's eases for awhile and then comes back with a vengeance.Could it be I have an infection and my gyno has missed that,because I have ms they seem to put everything down to that,I'm taking amptyriptaline to see if it's coming down the spine and to block over sensitive nerves but it's not working.Im at a loss to know what to do ,it's literally taken over my life, I s it ms or not I'm very tempted to take a course of erythrocin to see if that will work.Any advise would be much appreciated :'(. Hilary66
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Has no one mentioned vaginal atrophy to you.
There have been many discussions about it before and there is help.
Vagifem pessaries are very successful but there,are other preparations.
Are you on HRT. Some of us find that we need both HRT and a vaginal oestrogen to keep things healthy.
Use the search button to look for other topics on this and it might give you some ideas.
Honeyb
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Thanks honey bun I was on vagifem and that's when the burning got worse ,the only suggestion my gyno made was if it doesn't settle down she will do a biopsy of the vulva to see if it's a skin issue.She is now on holidays till the middle of September so I just don't know, I will definitely search through the threads and see what others have to say,
Thank You,
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There was a topic called The burning club.
Dancing Girl, who I'm sure will respond to your question, started it. She is now using an Estring which is much more successful for her.
If you do a search for her posts then you can read about her journey.
Hope this helps until someone who knows far more than me comes along.
Honeyb
x
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Sorry to hear about your problems.
I didn't find Vagifem worked very well for me -- I got irritated with it and the effect was very up and down.
I've been using the estring since December and it's brilliant. It is a smallish silicone ring which releases oestrogen constantly and just sits in your vagina. Each one lasts for about 3 months. Has improved my life no end. My VA felt like thrush/cystitis too and it is brilliant 99 per cent of the time now (though I very occasionally use a smear of ovestin as well).
could you get your GP to prescribe one of these for you till the gynae comes back? With luck, things will gradually have improved by then. It does take time though with VA.
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Why would anyone need to do a biopsy? That could cause more problems as the skin is probably dry and thinner.
Have a read menus, left of screen; search on here for 'my bladder etc.' thread and those of SuzyQ relating to Vaginal Atrophy. Ask for VA treatment before submitting to surgery!
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Don't have a biopsy unless there is a suspect lesion as it will aggravate already aggravated nerves.
Are you in the uk?
Use ice to calm things down, I assume they have started you on a low dose of ami, most people have to get up to 30mg to get relief, I do believe that MS can cause these symptoms also, although rare.
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I wouldn't take the antibiotic, as you need to know what you are treating and if there is an infection it may be resistant to that one anyway.
A lot of my burning has been found to be an undetected UTI, that has been rumbling away since I had minor gynae surgery 20 months ago, three specialists and lots of ££££s later but I am about. 75% better over all I have had to have six weeks of antibs, changing to a different one every two weeks, I am on my last lot now.
I am on ami also, the burning is still there but greatly reduced as the UTI has irritated the Pudendal Nerve. The least invasive investigations you have the better, as those nerves are already on red alert.
I have seen an amazing Vulva specialist, and she spent 40 mins thoroughly examining me in and out, so gentle and caring, did the gynae do the cotton bud test for vuvlvodynia?
I smother myself in the yes "oil" twice a day down there or more if needed stops any irritation from urine etc, also Sitz baths can make it worse, I use dermol 500 as a wash as just water is very drying but other things cause irritation.
If you are uk based I can pm you the name of the lady I saw, she takes more in depth swabs than the usual and mine was spot on including my PH level.
Vaginal burning is the pits...........if it's VA then the estring I guess is your next stop, I can't use vagifem or Ovestin either make me burn more.
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Thanks everybody for all your replies I appreciate every bit of advice I get and will take it all on board,I'm tired of being poked at and all for no result, I will suggest to my gp about estring but I'm wary about hrt and it's risks,I know I'm probably being rediculous but it would be my last resort.Im not from the Uk where you all seem to gave a good support network,Ireland in my opinion is still way behind making more aware women's issues and how to deal with them,I was taking ami 20 I just doubled up to see if it would ease the burning,my neurologist prescribes 10 for irritation in the spinal cord where I have dymiliation, I quite happily sat with an ice pack last night and it eased it eventually so I could sleep for a few hours,but right back at me when I awoke,thankfully the weather is good and I've managed to just wear shorts without underwear for the day so hopefully it will ease eventually,thanks again for all your advice it's so nice to hear that I'm not just alone with this problem,and I'm very lucky to have a very supportive husband who makes me smile when I'm feeling low, :)
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What's your biggest worry about HRT? Surely quality of Life is important for both yourself and your husband? I had breast disease in 1995 but have been advised that vaginal atrophy treatment doesn't migrate and the symptoms were un-bearable. I really didn't have any option but to try the pessaries which worked, I would say 'magic' still exists ;)
At least if you try some HRT you will hopefully have less symptoms and will 'see the wood for the trees' in order to make more informed decisions as you go along. After all you might get run over by a bus etc. etc. etc. ::)
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We'll I suppose that's one way at looking at it,I will discuss it further with my gyno,I'm actually surprised that she didn't recommend it if it was a solution to the prob.I must watch out for the buses ::)
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Hi Hilary - only just read through your thread.
I've had this horrible burning on and off for many years even when on full HRT. I moved house so have a different GP practise who are far more clued up about this problem - it's the luck of the draw when it comes to being treated with meno problems.
They advised I take a break from HRT last autumn and I was immediately worried my burning would get worse. The practise nurse I was seeing asked why I hadn't been prescribed local oestrogen for this years ago!!!! Many women need full systemic HRT and local oestrogen as well. Anyway, having tried Vagifem, Ovestin and Gynest all of which tended to make me burn more, I am now using the Estring which I'm finding much better - still get episodes of burning but far less.
Local oestrogen carries virtually no risks (ignore the scary stuff in the information leaflet - they just use the same information as for full HRT which is silly) so it's definitely worth trying. However, for me, it's taken over 6 months to improve and this is not uncommon. Had strange tingling sensations for the first few weeks initially which felt like the whole area was coming back to life!!!!!
The discomfort your are feeling is truly miserable and you really need to get this sorted.
Good luck DG x
PS If you haven't got any lesions don't have a biopsy - you're going through enough.
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I was worried to read that that you should ignore the information on leaflet "which is so silly" for some women it is important to read any hormone leaflets.
The fact is that HRT can be a problem for certain women and such cancers such as ovarian cancer HRT can contribute.
Its important to read the information and discuss with your doctor if you have any questions, local or systemic.
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I hate reading the information leaflets but I make myself. I try to ignore the side effects but read the interaction with other meds bit.
Recently the GP gave me stomach meds. She never mentioned that they could interact with other stomach meds that I take. I would never have known and could have made things much worse.
I do agree with SL. You should either question your GP or pharmacist about what you are taking.
Honeyb
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I never read the info leaflets until a few days into the product ;).
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Hi all,
Thanks so much for all the feedback,we'll one decision I have finally made is I definitely won't be having a biopsy, I'm really interested in estring maybe that might work for me,I will be asking my gyno about it.At the age of 48 I am post menopausal,which my gyno says is very early to be,but I haven't had a period from the time my last gyno cauterised using the Litz procedure my smear tests were always clear so why he removed cells I really don't know,Sometimes ignorance can be bliss but other times it can do you more harm than good,knowing and understanding your own body is the first step but trying to get your gp to understand what your telling them is a massive hurdle.I have many health issues no cancer scares Tg but have had lots of surgeries througout the years and then being diagnosed with ms in 2012, I often wonder what's the next thing to go wrong ,my hearing seems fine :D not that my husband would agree he often tells me it is selective.Getting myself sorted is top priority for both of us as it effects him as much as me,so I will be asking a lot more questions and pushing a few more buttons to get my gyno to make some kind of beneficial decision other than one for research. ;). Hilary 66
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No one should do an invasive procedure without telling the patient exactly why, that is why Consent Forms are so important!
Are you state-side? Maybe you and DH should make a list to take to the appt., ;) let us know how you get on!
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That's good about no biopsy, I had a dermatologist who wanted to do one, just to see what it might show, I went and got a second opinion and she said there is nothing that causes any worries that requires a biopsy, she said if she is even 0000.1% concerned she will do one but I really don't need one! I sat on the bed in a rather odd state holding a mirror whilst she explained everything to me.
NO ONE knows our bodies like we do, and I have had a lot of issues down below since January and I have gone the least invasive route and really educated myself on what's wrong, two doctors thought I was a nurse and where more than happy with my list of questions and suggestions.
Its a shame I have had to pay to get my diagnosis/treatment, as I knew the route my local uro/gynae was taking was wrong, the internet is Dr Knowledge and Dr Death all in one. Friend and foe, but I wouldn't have found out what I know without it, or found the specialists I needed to see.
I am also nearly 48. Had my children young to enjoy these years with my husband :-\
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Hi ladies
Just to clarify - I wasn't suggesting we should ignore the leaflets that come with drugs - it's just that the leaflet that comes with any local oestrogen treatment is the same as for full systemic HRT so is not necessarily appropriate - many ladies on here have expressed the same opinion. I am certainly frightened off taking many things because of the potential side effects stated in the leaflets but sometimes just bite the bullet and hope for the best because the doctor wants me to try it.
I think it is a shame that there is still so much scare mongering about HRT when it is clearly a relatively safe treatment for many women.
Hilary66 - at 48 you are still very young to be deficient in oestrogen. There are ladies who post on this site with MS who take HRT and I believe some feel it actually helps the MS.
Perhaps start a separate thread to encourage support about this?
I would urge you to at least try some local oestrogen to help with the burning.
Good luck Dg x
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I seem to have spent more time checking my bits in the mirror than I have actually looking in it.The only thing I said to the gyno was that I felt open all the time and she said that my inner and outer labia seem to be sticking to each other and that the feeling of openess was probably as a result of my ten pound baby boy that I gave birth to in 1996, I did ask at that stage why it never felt like that before now and why sex was so painful she told me then that I obviously either tore or was cut between the back area and front during birth and that there was very little skin left there and that causes pressure on the bowel during intercourse,and I just didn't have a reply for that, and honestly I still am trying to absorb what implication that might have where sex is concerned.I ordered some yes yes yes products from England and have found the water based one relieving at times but the oil based one burns,unfortunately there are only two stockists of these products in leinster and they are about 50 miles from where I live. I will ask my gp about some local oestrogen and see what he says.
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Inner and outer labia sticking together = dryness ……… possibly due to vaginal atrophy :-\ therefore requiring treatment. The weight of your baby is irrelevant - you are dealing with 'the now' ::)
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Hi. When I started using the yes oil based one it also burnt. It is now completely fine, I have to have pelvic floor physio and part of my homework was to stop looking and touching, I have not looked for over two weeks and I just massage the oil based one in twice a day on the outer and inner labia, not internally and the burning on the outside has all but gone.
I also feel "open" I had three 9lb babies in under four years with very eye watering episiotomies. As we enter peri/meno are pelvic floor muscles also start going South like the rest of us, especially after vaginal births.
I assume you have been checked for prolapses? as that can give a feeling of openness. Interestingly the worse " feeling" of my openness has gone since my long course of antibs for my undetected UTI.
Most women have small ones after having babies anyway even if they don't notice themselves. I have three, but small. Painful sex will be from drying, if yes is burning at the moment then be careful if you put Ovestin on your outer bits, I nearly orbited to the moon and back when used externally and internally.
I can't have sex in the near or distant future, but you can cuddle and do other things.
Sorry it's a bit over the place I keep going back and reading what you said, it's possibly hurting now as the scar tissue will have less elasticity in it from the possible atrophy, having sex shouldn't hurt your bowel, you may be feeling it in your rectum from the drying in the vagina, there are so many nerves down there it is hard to know what does and doesn't hurt, and once nerves become alive they pass messages onto the others to join in. Hence stop prodding and poking.
Almost all gynaes do not know about the vulva and outer bits they have a stab at it, my local uro/gynae had a " go" at what was wrong, when I ended up going to London I was passed onto a vulva specialist for the outer area. Gynaes know a bit here and a bit there about the vulva and out.
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:thankyou: also if one is constipated sex can feel 'different'.
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Hi,CLKD I don't suffer with constipation I take 2 movicol Every night to keep the bowel moving and have done for the last number of years after 2 episodes of blockage due to adhesions ,and sex always felt good up until lately we haven't even attempted for the last few months which is damn frustrating ,and from what my gyno was insinuating it could be for a while longer ???
MaryJane,I was really interested to read what you said a lot of your symptons are similar to my own I don't have a prolapse she checked that at my consultation she just said I had a few issues 1 the thinning of the inner labia and the co joining of both labias she just prescribed ami to block nerve pain and said to see how that worked,and if it didn't improve to have a biopsy to see if it could be treated with a cream,and basically get on with it!!!! Maybe I should look to see if there is a vulva specialist I could see, this is all costing me a fortune consultant s are €200 for every appointment but if I could get relief it would be worth it.I really wish it wasn't always my rear end that needs to be viewed between haemorhoidectomy last year and them being injected 2 weeks ago it's like I don't know if I'm coming or going.Im finding the yes water based product is helping to ease the burning and I left my underwear on when washing my hair in the shower,just incase that was aggravating the area,I think it's down to trial and error at this stage thanks so much for sharing information with me it's so much easier to discuss problems like this with others who suffer the same. ;)
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You need oestrogen gel to put into the vagina to ease symptoms. Amitriptalynene (sp) may/not work ::) ..... did absolutely nothing for the neurgalgia I had .........
Ouch, piles :o ........... do the injections ease pain?
Go and ask for vaginal atrophy treatment, print off any info from here and if you don't get sympathy then change your Doctor!
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Hi CLKD ,we'll my consultant says it could take 5 weeks before I might see the benefit of the injections,he needled 3 internal piles I still feel a fullness there but I'm optimistic..the haemorhoidectomy I had done May of 2013 still gives me grief the remaining scar is very tender and using sudocream sometimes is the only relief,but my gyno says not to use anything as this could aggravate my lady problems more, so I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't.
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Does the Sudacrem cause problems with other areas, if not and you gain relief, I would still use it ;)
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I was using sudocream for my sore back passage, just didn't put to much on it to migrate round to the front.
My three babies who where all girls, had copious amounts of sudocream when they where in nappies, it's what you used all those years ago and it went everywhere, none of them every got nappy rash.
Love the smell takes me back. :)
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I believe it's used in Old Peoples' homes etc. too.
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Just when I thought I was getting relief the burning is back with a vengeance >:( even the Yes water base gel is irritating the area, a perfect start to the bank holiday weekend :'(, hilary66
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Have you used anything different down there?
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No ,I have been so careful ,was just sitting down to watch a programme on TV felt the burning start checked to see if there was discharge ,there was a white discharge but in those few mins the harm was done,it's not thrush so why it's so irritating I don't understand.,I used my gel immediately but it hasn't eased,so bloody sick of this :(
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Hilary - I've experienced this and it's really depressing. I'm afraid the only thing is plenty of local oestrogen to get things healthier down below. I do avoid any acidic drinks these days and I've cut my caffeine intake to one cup of tea a day. I doubt it is the discharge - sitting down often brings on the burning for me which makes me think it's something to do with the urethra getting squashed when it's inflamed. I think it baffles the medical profession!!!! DG x
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Hi guys, sorry to be such a misery,Dg could you suggest a name of a local oestrogen I just haven't a clue about any of it,I'm embarrassed to be so ignorant about such matters that's why I joined this forum to start with,I have two older sisters who just don't discuss the menopause so I'm at a bit of a loss to be honest.My gyno isn't back until sept 15th and my doc is a bit of old fart so I would need to know what I'm talking about if I'm looking for a script.hilary66
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Please, please don't be embarrassed - the menopause and particularly Vaginal Atrophy and bladder problems all linked with oestrogen deficiency are still very taboo issues that sadly we feel not only embarrassed about but somehow ashamed to admit to. For many of us who visit and post on this site, what we have learned through discussing our problems with other women is not only an education but an enormous relief - a relief to know we are not alone and not the only ones suffering. Unfortunately too many GPs are not up to speed about the menopause and we have to actively ask and sometimes demand to have our pain and discomfort taken seriously.
Do read all the info under the headings to the left of this screen - it should give you all the information you need. Under HRT preparations there is a section of vaginal treatments. Many women find Vagifem very good. I'm using the Estring and I've found its the best option for me.
Good luck. DG x
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I'm lucky in that my GP recognised VA before I did, in fact he rang me to check a few symptoms then suggested OrthoGynest pessaries (now discontinued >:( ).
If we don't ask we don't get so you ask any questions you like, nothing is tabboo!
Could you sit on a ring, you know, the kind of blow up types that kids use in the swimming pool. That way your bottom is away from any pressure! It wokred when I had an injury to the coccyx ...........
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Hillary:
I think I have had this. A dermatologist I went to had me use 1% hydrocortisone ointment (not cream) on the red area applied with a Qtip, alternating with petroleum jelly.....I did this morning and night. Also look up vaginal/vulvar ezcema and read about it. Along with local estrogen as the other ladies suggested, this has slowly gotten better. If your urine is acidic, this makes it worse. It might help to discontinue taking vitamins until you get it under control. I even stopped taking vit D and Calcium as I felt that made it worse also when I had it really bad. A little baking soda in a glass of water seemed to help me also.
Andius
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My Grandma swore by bicarbonate of soda as a paste for burns. Don't know if she ever drunk it though :-\
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Thanks so much for all the feedback guys much appreciated.I have an appointment with my gyno for Sept 15th and will be suggesting a few of your idea.Till then however an icepack is a much needed accessory . ???