Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: CLKD on August 16, 2011, 08:59:50 AM

Title: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 16, 2011, 08:59:50 AM
Rather than hi-jack the positive thinking thread  ;)

When I was depressed I couldn't move.  Once out of bed I sat.  Deeply depressed.  I think it was a survival strategy.  I couldn't eat, drink, think, focus, concentrate.  I couldn't spend time in the bath, in wash and out.  Fear was prehensile: fear that I would feel worse, fear that I would never recover, fear that I would never feel a little bit better, fear that I would never eat again ...........

My Dad was depressed.  I used to tell him 'let's go for a walk, let's look at the TV, let's read together' never understanding nor realising how impossible it was for him at that time. 

Susan wrote in the other thread: "It isn't really that depression causes selfishness, so much as to those looking at the depressed from the outside it tends to manifest itself as totally selfish behaviour ......... "   :thankyou: it's a really good statement  :foryou:

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 16, 2011, 12:59:01 PM
Yes - I believe that many chronic illnesses are inhereted which is why I fought against taking ADs for so long. I wanted someone in the medical profession to be bothered enough to find out *why* I was suffering ....... at first low grade clinical depression followed by full-on organic depression.  My paternal Grandad was an alcoholic gambler in his youth, his youngest son had manic depression; my sister has terrible temper tantrums and I had to learn how to control my anger.  I now recongise when my brain needs extra support and up my medication accordingly. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Taz2 on August 16, 2011, 04:06:46 PM
I agree that depression can be inherited and also that anxiety can also be an inherited condition. I hid my anxiety from all of my three sons and two are fine but one of them, who is the one most like me in all sorts of ways, has suffered with dreadful anxiety for the past ten years. He had no idea that I had felt like him until I talked to him about it in an effort to help him through his own panic stricken days.

Taz x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on August 16, 2011, 06:02:17 PM
CLDK,

I can totally relate to everything you said in your post.
I have OCD and this wasn't diagnosed until 7yrs ago when I was at my worst
ever.I was being treated for depression and anxiety for years,from when I was 15,
I'm now 50.When I was diagnosed with OCD my psychiatrist told me that side effects of OCD is depression & anxiety.
I can remember as far back to when I was 8 when I use to have these obsessions
from time to time.My childhood had a lot of anxiety caused by my mother,
who I  don't see anymore,but that's another story.
I was brought up in a very insecure home all mother related.
My psychiatrist said that because I didn't get the love & security from my mother
when I was growing up OCD crept in due to low serotonin levels in the brain.
I have been taking 80mg Prozac now for 7 years for my OCD and had a year of CBT
To learn how to manage it.So far so good.I will always have OCD and it does rear it's ugly head when I'm stressed but the med & therapy keeps me on track and I haven't looked back.
I will be on Prozac indefinitely because my brain needs it.

Lots love Dyan X
















Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Stella_al on August 16, 2011, 06:48:14 PM
CLKD,

I've added a bit to the other thread.

As I said, I didnt mean to upset anyone, just quoting my therapist and my own personal experience.

Sorry if you think I was being rude  :'( :foryou:

Personally I think mental illness is such an awful thing, but people's attitudes to it is horrific  :(

I wouldnt wish it on my worstest enemy, and get infuriated when people at work havent a clue and either:
a. Say "so and so should pull themselves together"
or
b. Have a bit of a bad day and start spouting " I'm sooooooooo depressed".

Although I was a lucky one and managed to come out the other side relatively unscathed compared to some poor people (BTW its taught me some strengths I never thought I had ), I have seen both my husband (BTW BIG genetic link from his mother's severe mental illness) and best friend suffer terribly.......and the feeling of impotency to see someone you love, being so ill, is just  :'( :'( :'(

Goodness knows how awful it is to be suffering it  :(

Wishing anyone who is suffering  :hug:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 17, 2011, 01:07:02 PM
I can relate to how annoying (b) is  >:( I feel like shaking someone who mutters how 'fed up' they are  :-X

You didn't upset me, the written word is static and views can sometimes seem non-flexible I am often guilty of not checking that what I type makes any sense other than to myself  :D.

I know that Himself had to take my medication to work and return at lunchtime so that I took the next dose because I didn't dare have anything in the house that might be 'dangerous'.  He never asked me why I told him to take it out of the house ........ I think he was scared of what I might say!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 02, 2011, 08:22:04 PM
Here it is - for Mitra so as not to hi-jack another thread
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: valiantkate on November 11, 2011, 07:14:17 PM
just about had enough now- so desperately fed up- son in debt to his eyes, new headteacher bullying the older staff, need some hugs but dont need this any more. dont care.well i do but ...................................................
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 11, 2011, 08:41:14 PM
All things shall pass.  How about contacting the Board of Governers for advice?  New broom sweeps clean  ::) and people don't like change but bullying is unacceptable.  Maybe you should all tell the new Head that there is a non-bullying policy in the School which applies across the board?

As for your son being in debt., send him to the CAB for advice!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: valiantkate on November 12, 2011, 08:01:15 PM
thank you xxxxxx :thankyou:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Donna1 on November 12, 2011, 08:15:23 PM
I'll add another hug for you Valiantkate. I'm a teacher too and know that bullying can be found in staff as well as pupils! Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and be kind to yourself.

Re depression - my Mum has suffered off and on all her life and now that I'm experiencing meno I'm getting a small taste of what she has had to cope with all these years and I'm humbled. Also ashamed for my impatience.

Donna
 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 12, 2011, 08:34:45 PM
Yep when I think about how I suggested to Dad that we 'should exercise' when he was sitting crying ...... oh the innocence of youth ...... when I was depressed I couldn't move leave alone exercise! 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: charliegirl on November 13, 2011, 09:32:11 AM
Hi all, can totally relate to this thread. Am suffering with terrible anxiety/depression at the moment and if anyone said cut off your leg and you will have peace i would willingly do it!! I do believe you inherit you nervous system and sensitivity to some extent as my mother was like that,  i spend hours wondering why other people can cope with life and i struggle so much. At present I am living alone and struggling, although its not the aloneness but my insecurity thats the problem. Can anyone relate to that???
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 13, 2011, 01:31:15 PM
Why do we always feel that others are coping?  Maybe they have ways of masking their feelings in public but at home ......... ?

What insecurities do you have right now?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: viv on November 13, 2011, 02:32:40 PM
A face for out and a face for in.

You are so right CLKD.

I often look around me in shops at women of my age (ish) and wonder how some of them manage to look so together. Maybe they are and just maybe they feel like me on the inside only hide it better.

Hope you feel better soon Charlie Girl. This is a very hard time of life.

 :hug:

Honeyb
x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 13, 2011, 04:43:19 PM
Yep - a problem shared.  We're allowed to be alone but it's the whizzing thoughts that used to bother me, I could never slow my brain down enough to analyse them and couldn't have told anyone what was going on in there  ::)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on November 13, 2011, 07:25:36 PM
I feel for you charliegirl.
Been there myself.Mine was a lot to do with insecuries too.
I know what  you mean CLDK about the thoughts whizzing around your brain.
Honeybun,I'm the same when I'm out,looking around at other women and thinking
"Do they feel like I feel?"
 :bighug: for you charliegirl and for you all on here.
Dyan X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Suzi Q on November 17, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
Bullying is found EVERYWHERE
Depression is an inherited genetic disease
They have found the depressive gene
My MUM and my brother and my son have depression I suffered too but mine was an illness
I was able to get over it with only help no ADs though I did take them (sorry) for 8/mnths till the Therapy started
We all feel that when times are bad we look at people walking or driving and think if only they knew?
Wonder what their life is like and the thoughts Oddly enough Im having them lately scarey what if scenarios hate them
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 17, 2011, 11:40:36 AM
There are at least 2 types of depression - organic and clinical.  Organic is chemical related in that the brain lacks ooomph and clinical is based around life events which people feel they can't alter.  This can lead to anger, annoyance, low mood, lack of interest in daily living.  I have both at times, thank goodness for medication!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Suzi Q on November 17, 2011, 01:01:40 PM
There are at least 2 types of depression - organic and clinical.  Organic is chemical related in that the brain lacks ooomph and clinical is based around life events which people feel they can't alter.  This can lead to anger, annoyance, low mood, lack of interest in daily living.  I have both at times, thank goodness for medication!

My MUM had Chemical depression  and clinical as does my son
I had clinical it took 3 years of Therapy to get rid of it but I dont think it ever totaly goes
I find since my illness silly things upset me things I would shrug off before
Yet Im a stronger person for having therapy I get over the things that upset me very quickly
also my angers not as bad as it was or my rage against life
I would give anything for son not to be sick Id have it for him he has been depressed since he was about 15 or so though I think it was even earlier I think coming to Ozz at 9 played a part too
He saw his Nan and Gag and Grt Nan and Uncle virtually every day of his 9 years of life
Plus cousins and Aunts and Uncles he went to the same school I did my Dad did and my grandad did
I blame myself he got the gene and predisposition from me knowing what I know now Id never have taken him away
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 17, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
Do you blame yourself for other genetically disposed conditions though?  Why is it that depression has such a stigma  >:( ....... does your son blame you?

I got rid of my teen anger in my mid-30s by talking therapy - discuss, decide, ditch. Cleared my head of anquish, medication helps control the other stuff.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Suzi Q on November 18, 2011, 04:19:58 AM
Thats a hard one I dont know but I do know I missed the signssons depression I shouldnt have
MUM had been mentaly ill all her life and Id been her main care giver till I was 15
The again from 20/26 so I saw it at its worst I suppose I just didnt want to see what was in front of me
I dont blame me as much as genetics and we can do nothing about that I just get so sad sometimes
I think of the things he wanted to do depression stopped him then he got his Autoim disease which is also genetic
Sometimes think what the F else but you have to go on and not give up
Son is now happily married to a wonderful girl even though her and I arent close we get on well
They have traversed the world together are buying their second home even though he sometimes just cant go to work
He works for a great company they unbderstand his sickness and are ubderstanding when he rings in SICK
But he does do heaps of work for them far more than most employees would he works loads from home in his own time
Designed their new web page for nothing would have cost the firm $1000s  so its quid pro quo
I think we just have to accept that some will get depression for life some will get over it and some are just plain SAD

Does son blame me hmmmmm honestly I dont know the Autoimune the same hes a celt hes a fighter its in his nature
Not saying others dont just that son is the hard faced celt that you want at your side when thihngs are bad He said at one stage the only thing that stopped him (can I say this?) killing himself was me he knew Id follow him
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 18, 2011, 10:25:37 AM
Depression rears it's ugly head in many forms so don't beat yourself up at not noticing it in your son.  I hid it well from people for years, when I finally admitted friends told me they never would have thought that I would be a depressed person.  It's the public face again  ::)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: charliegirl on November 18, 2011, 10:31:17 PM
Hi CHKD am also suffering very bad depression at the moment, due to a breakdown with relaitionship/work stress, I back at GPs on monday to review meds, hopefully they can get me right, :(Just feel like am not living really.
Charliegirl.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 20, 2011, 12:44:20 PM
So be kind to you.  Feet up.  Cuppa in hand.  TV or music on in the background and doze when ever you are able to.  Don't worry about your sleep pattern.  If you are awake in the night read, do puzzles or have music on.  My brain used to whizz fast when I was very ill.  Occasionally now it does when I've been busy.  I try not to worry about the odd night when I don't sleep. 

Take a list of symptoms to the GP and ask how to tackle them.  That way your Doctor can take informed steps about what to prescribe and advise and youwon't miss telling him/her anything  ;)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on November 20, 2011, 12:50:42 PM
Lists are good CLDK.
I'm always doing lists for anything. :)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 20, 2011, 02:42:38 PM
When I was very ill I had lists for everything except getting out of bed and feeding the cats.  That way Icould remain on automatic pilot and not think too hard about anything  :-\
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Val.M on November 20, 2011, 10:56:20 PM
I'm very much divided on this subject because there is a big difference between what is classified as a "Neurotic depression" and a "Psychotic depresssion" 

Basically, when suffering from Neurotic depression, we do not suffer from irrational thinking - but a psychotic depression will cause this problem - eg, irrational thinking, delusions, paranoia etc....  I have definitely seen this with my son and it's very, very unpleasant.  He had no hope of doing anything at all because he was so very agitated.  (I've been on the cusp of this before, so could see what was happening to him but I always knew that I wasn't quite "right" and thereby lies the difference.) 

He had absolutely no idea that he wasn't thinking in a "normal way."  To be honest - "normal" didn't even come into it - but if you had spent just 5 minutes with him, you would not know that he was severley ill...  I knew though and so did my husband and daughter but it took ages to get the correct diagnosis.

I'm not trying to say that depression is any less debilitating in any form but a serious mental illness such as schizophrenia or Bi Polar Disorder is incredibly serious and the medication can have a serious impact on the patient's way of life... (If it works..)

http://maddieruud.hubpages.com/hub/Psychosis_Vs_Neurosis - I think this website explains it very well indeed....

Valxx  (Sorry to go on so much!)


Valxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Suzi Q on November 21, 2011, 02:18:38 AM
All the love in the world
God Bless xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 21, 2011, 01:01:38 PM
Psychosis is a different ball game altogether and can be scarey for those watching.  Usually the sufferer has no idea that their conversation or actions are not within normal limits.  The brain is a strange creature at times.  Certainly drugs can make people anxious or agitated, I remember Dad having some medication which caused him to pace all the while.  He couldn't walk it 'out' so it was eventually changed to Lithium. 

What's 'neurotic' depression?  I have both organic and clinical depression which run along similar lines but I can recognise the difference, however, some 'experts' will not accept that there is an 'organic' basis.  Hormones can cause problems at puberty which often go un-diagnosed and un-resolved even with diagnosis. 

My problem initially was that I didn't recognise when depression was creeping up nor would I listen when Himself told me to change jobs/hobbies etc. when it was obvious I was becoming obsessive.  I have learned since 2001 to listen more and slow down, take stock and re-evaluate.  Usually he is 'right'  ::).

Last night I felt remote from Life, I was quite scared.  I couldn't sleep, my brain was racing, I had a lot of guilt rushing through my brain and body  :-\
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Scampi on November 21, 2011, 01:44:39 PM
I have so much admiration for those of you who cope day-to-day with real depression.  I'm going through the mill at the moment (my dad is terminally ill and deteriorting daily, my mum has uncontrolled Parkinsons and struggles to move unaided, so I worry how she will cope once Dad is no longer around, and I have a chronic auto-immune disorder which causes pain and inflammation, made worse by stress, of course!) and some of my friends have said I should talk to my GP for some help to 'get through' - but I don't want ADs as I KNOW I'm not depressed - I'm just sad.  Deeply and sometimes debilitatingly sad, but not depressed.  No amount of 'chemical rebalancing' is going to change the fact my wonderful Dad is dying, and until I've crossed that bridge I will be sad  :'(
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 21, 2011, 02:42:36 PM
Do you need to get the various agencies in place now, so that you can hand over a certain amount of responsibility whilst you go through the grieving process?  Have a word with the Parkinsons' Society etc., Macmillan also have a good web-site for advice.  That way you can deal with your feelings without being pressurised into coping with your Mum. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: hot&spicy on November 21, 2011, 03:23:43 PM
Aw scampi my heart goes out to you. It is so difficult to watch someone you love disappear before your eyes. I nursed my father in law for a year and a half whilst still working. I supported my hubby and kids through their grieving process whilst finding a place fir my own. My gp was adamant I was depressed but no I did not believe it. How else are you meant to feel at a time like this? To me my feelings were how they should have been given what I was coping with. When he died I wanted signed off work for a month just to gather myself again. My gp said 'will I put depressed on your sick line?' I was furious at him and basically said 'can you not put bereaved because that is what I am!'

Take care of yourself whilst you get through this difficult time. Keep posting so you can get some support for yourself. Xxxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Scampi on November 21, 2011, 03:31:16 PM
There's quite a lot of agencies involved already - Social Services, our local hospice (who are wonderful), district nurses, Parkinsons' nurse ... I think Mum will cope once all the stress and grief is over and she's had chance to sort herself out - they live in a bunglow with complete level access and a full wet-room, so she can actually manage at home quite well.  But at the moment she's struggling, and I do worry about her social life once she is on her own - Mum and Dad have always done things together, Dad was the driver and many of their friends live some distance away.  I'm sure it will all settle down and sort itself out, but for now I worry.

Thank you so much for your kind words H&S - you have no idea how much of a help it is to hear someone else express EXACTLY how I feel.  I'm not depressed - I'm grieving (eventhough Dad is still with us).  It's good to know I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Suzi Q on November 22, 2011, 09:57:27 AM
Big hugs to everyone who has or is suffering from depression
Or who has a family member or pal
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Val.M on November 22, 2011, 07:50:20 PM
CLKD - I think neurosis or neurotic depression is a depression where the sufferer still remains in touch with the "real world" but with a "psychotic depression" they don't and lose touch with reality.

Strangely enough, when I had PND, I thought I was seriously ill - not mentally but physically and looking back it was a close call as to whether it was classified as psychotic or neurotic. (I never actually did find out!  Maybe that's a good thing...)  I've never felt like that again but I have been depressed since that time - the PND was a different kettle of fish altogether though :o

Scampi - you have an awful lot on your plate at the moment and no doubt it means you are very busy going here, there and everywhere and trying to cope with everyday life.  Please remember to look after yourself as well as your mum and dad - I know that's not an easy task though.  It wasn't so long ago that I was in a very similar position to you and I know it's hard, very hard.  Thinking of you and sending lots of cyber hugs.

Valxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 22, 2011, 08:01:39 PM
Post Natal Depression is caused by hormones  >:( and psychosis is one aspect of how it manifests itself.  Once the hormones settle so does the PND. 

'neurotic' is a new label I hadn't heard before.  Neurotic to me is something completely different to depressive symptoms.

I think I've sorted out why I was so scared the other night: I can't find my spare pair of reading glasses nor some special photos and don't dare look where they out to be in case they are not there  :-\  .......... the photos are usually with me 24/7 but I've put them down somewhere and now that I have no re-call facility, I can't remember when I last had them.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on May 29, 2013, 07:03:17 PM
This was my journey and other comments from way back in 2011
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 24, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
 :bounce:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: honeybun on October 24, 2015, 08:22:31 PM
Are things any better CLKD .


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 24, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Thank you for asking.

"physical manifestation of a chemical imbalance ……. "

If Members read the whole of this thread they will see what I stated earlier.  Depression can be a organic, i.e. chemical imbalance as well as being clinical, due to a person not being able to alter where they are today; usually related to relationships, job situations, caring for others …. they become depression due to not being able to get out of the situation.

Organic depression is due to chemical imbalance.  I don't get the 'physical manifestation' or the thought that one can 'talk oneself out of depression'.  If it were that 'easy' then Psychologists and Psychiatrists, my sister and her husband, friends - would all be out of a job as would pharmaceutical companies …..

If I take my maintenance dose of Anti-depressant then I remain well.  If my brain becomes low for more than 4/5 days I up the evening dose for a week.  My GP is OK with this regime.  I NEVER want to feel as ill as I did in 1991.  Unable to get out of bed.  Unable to walk, when moving around the house I crawled.  I NEVER want to be so afraid that I begged for admission to Hospital to keep me safe: my DH was told to give me more Valium.  It did work.  But I wanted health professionals to take the responsibility from him and for me to be where what I was experiencing was 'within normal limits'. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 24, 2015, 08:33:54 PM
GRL states in a response to a comment in the other thread, that she wouldn't consider 'thinking herself worse' …….. why would anyone?  One wouldn't want to think menopause symptoms worse so why any other medical condition  :-\.  In fact I don't think that one can 'think' oneself worse.  When well I consider several times a day how I am feeling with regards depressive mood changes as well as how anxious I am ……. the anxiety hits in the gut below the belly button.  Mood drop can happen within moments …….. and I immediately consciously think 'oh not again'.  Then I have to sort out my medication as appropriate.

When very depressed I didn't recognise the signs.  Now I am more aware because I have been well ……. and feeling well means I am not as scared that I will never get well.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: honeybun on October 24, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
So if not better then recognisable and manageable.

Would you say that anxiety is more of an issue for you now. The depression being well controlled but anxiety being variable.


Honeybun
X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 24, 2015, 08:46:53 PM
Yep.  I have always been anxious.  My 1st panic attack was at age 3.  I was raised in a dysfunctional household so reacted from early on ……… so my reactions are engrained = CBT absolutely useless  ::) - however, intermittent talking therapy for 2/3 years about my childhood helped enormously. Vent, vent, vent without someone telling me 'that can't have happened because …… '



Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on October 24, 2015, 09:00:29 PM
Ah, found you  :)

Back when I had PND my depression was caused by hormonal imbalances to begin with. I knew before I had left hospital with my baby that something was very wrong. This chemical/hormonal imbalance was therefore organic. But I think it then also developed into clinical depression caused by my situation, having to take care of a baby 24/7 when I was already really struggling with the organic depression.

Definitely the worst time of my life.

When I saw my consultant she explained that my peri menopausal depression was essentially the PND all over again, caused by the same hormonal/chemical imbalances in my brain. Except this time I just didn't have a baby to care for.

But I did have a challenging job + young children to care for + a husband who often works away for days at a time etc.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 24, 2015, 09:02:27 PM
well done!  I find that clinical depression can break through the organic …….. particularly if I've visited Mother  >:(  ::)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on October 25, 2015, 05:59:09 PM
Hi CLKD,  :thankyou: for bumping this thread.  I can relate so much to what you have said in your posts.  I also grew up in a dysfunctional household & was an anxious child.  I too, was so ill during February/March this year (when I was experiencing personal & work problems) that I cou!d barely eat, wash or get out of bed then, one day, I ended up getting an emergency appointment with my GP & somehow (goodness only knows how) got over there, unwashed etc. & could barely walk from my car to the waiting room because I fe!t so weak (my weight had dropped dramatically).  I just remember almost collapsing onto my gp's desk in floods of tears & begging him to admit me to hospital (he didn't).  Instead, he prescribed me valium to calm me down & referred me for counselling.  The valium helped a little at the time but the wait for the counselling was too long &, by the time the sessions started (NHS), I had already made some more disasterous decisions & had ended up resigning from my job.  I only started paid employment again a couple of months ago.  Even now, I find it an effort to get out of bed on the weekdays that I do not work but I can recognise now, especially from what you have said, that I am both clinically and organically depressed (it is on both sides of my family)& will need medication through this winter.  Hormonal fluctuations during my menstrual cycle, & particularly during perimenopause, have made it worse. It is such a shame that the escitilopram doesn't appear to agree with me anymore but I will try & persevere with the initial low dosage of setraline (the only other alternatives may be prozac or citilopram as mentioned in my 'Anti-depressants' thread). My main worry is the insomnia which is a major side effect for me. Thanks again for bumping the thread  :foryou: xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 25, 2015, 06:07:32 PM
Join the Club that no one wants to be in  ::). 

If you can't sleep, how about a radio by the bed?  With soft music on …….. I had Radio2 on for years.  Of course now there are iPad thingies so that one can have a random selection of music  ??? …… it helped focus my brain on not sleeping.  If there was a suitable piece of music I could pretend I was ice-skating: yeh, right  ;D : but every skate position was correct and I soared …… sometimes it would ease me into sleep.

Do you still have Valium to hand?  Might be worth using as necessary.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on October 25, 2015, 06:23:38 PM
Madboss :hug:
Another club member  ;D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on October 26, 2015, 08:42:56 AM
I know my peri menopausal depression is organic because it can strike in a matter of moments (literally in the time it takes to drink a cup of tea). It then lasts from between 2-7 days and then disappears in the space of a few hours.

It is the oddest thing. While I am experiencing it I feel so very flat, low and despairing. I cannot remember what it feels like to feel normal/happy and I am certain I will never feel happy/normal again.

Then whoosh! It lifts, and I find it hard to remember what it feels like to feel so low.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: GypsyRoseLee on October 26, 2015, 12:20:10 PM
Yes, pretty much Pranja. Although they certainly didn't always proceed my period like classic PMS. But then my cycle changed when peri started, in that it became shorter and my periods much lighter and often only lasting 2-3 days, rather than 6-7 like before.

I also think I had months where I didn't ovulate at all, despite having a very light bleed. This made it even harder to properly chart anything or link it precisely to my menstrual cycle.

But, aside from all that my episodes of low mood/anxiety would generally only last roughly a week, followed by a couple of perfectly normal/happy weeks, followed by a few iffy days.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 26, 2015, 04:11:37 PM
When I am in despair I know that I am never going to feel happy or well again  :'(.  Then the despair lifts ……… since remaining generally well I can recognise when my brain requires support.

It's like the body: when the gut is hungry, we usually eat.  When the brain needs support, we often ignore it …… I don't know what chemicals my brain requires so fortunately the current AD eases symptoms.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on October 26, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, CLKD - I do still have the valium, thankfully, which helps.  I had my 4th CBT session today & am beginning to see that my thought patterns worsen my depression.  Normally, my mood dips mid-cycle onwards & the low mood becomes more persistent in the autumn & winter months.  I appear to be an 'overthinker'!  I also occasionally get that 'crushing fatigue' that Prajna mentioned - hormones grrr!
Thanks Dyan for the  :hug:    Yes, I'm now a member of the club!    :D. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 26, 2015, 09:03:29 PM
I over-think when stressed; when depression takes over and when anxiety strikes.  Otherwise my Brain is quiet.  I used to talk to myself all the while, trying to 'put things right' ……. or planning what I would say to someone in certain possible situations.  I don't do that as often as the people that triggered those feelings are dead  :-\

CBT can be useful as it gives methods of sorting and possible calming repeative thought patterns.  Do you have 'homework'?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on October 29, 2015, 07:35:27 PM
Hi CLKD, I am sorry for the delay in replying - I had lost track of what I had posted on MM!  The 'overthinking' is a big problem of mine.  I am guilty of 'mindreading' & 'catastrophising' (the 'what if...'scenarios).  I do have 'homework' for the cbt.  One topic at the moment is to write down what evidence I actually have for when I think someone might, for example, dislike me or is disappointed with me.  I really want this to work but I need to be in the right frame of mind to be able to carry the tasks out.  As I mentioned tonight in another thread, I am trying to stop 'sinking under' - don't think the gloomy weather or reminders of my old workplace today have helped.  Going to church on Sunday as I have booked the day off so that encourage me.  :) X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 29, 2015, 07:43:46 PM
How disappointed are you that your sister has cancelled?

I was raised by a Narcisstic Mother …… but wasn't aware of it until after Dad died (long story short).

Although encouraged to 'do your best' I felt often that I never quite came up to standard  ::).  I had to discipline myself to accepting that what ever I did was *my* best and if it wasn't enough, then any feelings that my parents had were theirs - not my fault  ::) and I also had to teach myself to say 'no' more often and not be bothered if it did't suit the other person.  It does get easier  ;) ……

Those people that I felt 'disliked' me are no longer on my C.mas card list ;-).  As I grew older I became less boffered about what others might think ……. as long as I do my best each day: my other mantra is "I'm out of bed, what more do you want?"  ;)

You are feeling vulnerable so homework will be hard work initially.  Little steps ……..
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on October 31, 2015, 07:16:30 PM
Hi CLKD,  Thank you :-) - I have replied in another thread about my sister's visit but I will mention it here.  I am sad that I will not be seeing her tomorrow but it's not her fault.  DH felt awkward about the visit because I stayed with my sister for a short time when we were briefly separated early this year (that was my foolish idea when I was not thinking straight) & she was instrumental in getting us reconciled - he also said he had nothing in common with them so I suggested that my daughter & I visit them in January instead.  I do have another sister who lives 15 miles away but she doesn't tend to stay in touch or even bother to send us birthday cards (she didn't even send a card for our son's 21st birthday even though I always send cards & money to our three nieces - I have to say that really hurt).  Like you have done, I need to teach myself to say 'no' more often & to not be bothered by what others might think.  I never felt 'good enough' & still don't - especially where some members of my family are concerned.  I have 2 half brothers & two half sisters & out of all of them, only one stays in touch more frequently & sends cards on birthdays etc..  The CBT man said 'Some people are forgetful & some simply can't be bothered/don't care'.  That's what I need to remember & not worry about it! Xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 31, 2015, 11:59:26 PM
Get on with your Life?  I have little contact with my sister, I don't need to as she lives in another Country so we don't have to meet.  Too much hurt in the past which continues unless I cut contact.  Bothers others more than it does me  ;D.

Same with friends, they come and go.   That isn't a reflection on me but the World is more mobile.  Bet though my sister will be there 'at the end'  ::) however  :-X  :P

Make the people around you the most important.  Others are in your past ……
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on November 01, 2015, 12:08:29 PM
Thanks, that what I intend to do - the past has to be left behind otherwise it will ruin my life.  Need to concentrate on the 'here & now'.  I have reached a point where it is time to 'let go' of people who do not really care & stop wasting energy on worrying about it!   :) Xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 01, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
There probably needs to B a form of grieving ….. although by the time I had decided not to engage with people who upset me including putting the 'phone down when necessary  ;) I was confident enough to not be bothered by it.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on November 02, 2015, 06:27:12 PM
I think you are right - I am going through something like that at the moment over my former workplace colleagues as I do not have anything in common with them anymore & they said about keeping in touch but never did.  I miss the social life I had through my old workplace as well.  I feel I cannot be bothered with trying to keep in touch with the sister who lives nearest anymore - the problem is she has three daughters whom I always send cards & money to (I hardly see them though).  I might have mentioned this before in an old thread but someone once said to me a long time ago when I was depressed, "Don't hang around with people who make you feel miserable & cut the 'dead wood' out of your life'.  Start as I mean to go on! Xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 02, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
U could decide that once the nieces reach 12/16/18/21 that you stop buying ?  that's what I did.  Especially if they don't send 'thank you' letters!  I told my sister that if her sons couldn't be bothered to acknowledge me then I couldn't be bothered - they were about 12, now in their late 30s they send a card  ;) although their Mum writes the address on the envelope.

If anyone drains you then see less of them.  Some people are takers, others are givers  ;)

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on November 03, 2015, 06:03:58 PM
Good for you!  :). Too true - well done for having the confidence to do that  :) xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on November 03, 2015, 06:56:22 PM
We live miles from relatives so can do it easily.  We don't have to engage often  ;)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 04, 2016, 07:10:52 PM
This is how depression affected me and unless I take medication regularly and unless I don't take on too much or say 'yes' too often, generally I'm OK.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: newbeginnings on January 07, 2016, 03:45:31 PM
It is a real gift to discover this thread. It is such a comfort to know I'm not alone. I'm not a forum user generally ( haven't a clue what all the abbreviations mean - is there a key anywhere!?) as I always feel nervous expressing myself publicly.
My experiences are very similar to people here, very painful childhood which I'm only really coming to terms with now at the age of 55.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 07, 2016, 04:35:31 PM
ADs - anti-depressants
DH - Dear Husband
DD - Dear Daughter
DS - Dear Son

ask away!  We're here to share  ;)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: newbeginnings on January 07, 2016, 05:14:49 PM
DC's?  :)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 07, 2016, 05:34:39 PM
Aaahhh ……… in what context? 

MadBloss  - come in for an update  ;)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 08, 2016, 05:43:57 PM
I shed tears this morning.  Having suffered deep depression in the 1990s and having felt unsafe at times, right now I hate this illness.  It can become a silent killer  :'(  ……… and I feel so sad for my friends who had a tradedgy before C.mas  :'(.  It's brought a lot of my own feelings I went through at that time to mind, which makes me scared …….. it makes me angry that there is little support for those suffering from depression or anxiety.  It takes ages to see a GP in some areas, referrals for psychiatric counselling etc. can take months before the appt. is avaialbe ……… I would love to see walk-in centres for those suffering who need somewhere to simply 'be'.  No need to communicate or justify why they need to sit …….. but somewhere to feel safe, with sofas and blankets to curl up underneath.  A cuppa to hand to huggle, not necessary to drink. 

Would Assisted Dying stop some people ending their Lives - because it doesn't do to even suggest that one feels suicidal it seems to freak others a lot! and there's those that say 'you don't need to be depressed', 'what have you to be depressed about?'  ……… If Assisted Dying walk-in Clinics were available people who felt unsafe or in despair could have somewhere to talk where they know they wouldn't be judged  :-\
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Justjules on January 08, 2016, 05:55:32 PM
Oh CLKD, you poor thing. You sound at rock bottom and you are so supportive of everyone on here. Yes, this damn depression thing is terrible. I downloaded the depression book by Sue Atkinson, can't remember the bloomin title at the mo and it was the best book on the subject that I have ever read.

OMG, what an amazing thing that would be, to have a place of comfort where people could go if they were having a really bad day to just 'be' without being judged and feel safe.  Have you looked at Depression Alliance? That was recommended to me as well.

Hope you feel better soon. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: newbeginnings on January 08, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
Wishing you all the support and love you could possibly need to get through this time. I've been there myself many times. It will pass you will feel better give it time.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 08, 2016, 08:01:31 PM
 :thankyou:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: purplenanny on January 08, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
Huge hugs CLKD
PN x x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 09, 2016, 01:52:33 PM
Thanks.  I will make a double appt with our GP for a chat - he is my late friend's GP too …...
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on January 09, 2016, 03:08:57 PM
It sounds like you have had a bereavement so you are grieving.  that in itself is unsettling without the imbalance of depression too.  Please talk to someone, your GP as you say or Cruse or MIND or someone who will listen and just let you 'be'.  And don't forget about the Samaritans.  they saved my husband's life when he was 17 xx   :bighug:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 09, 2016, 03:37:26 PM
 :thankyou:  I'm OK until the anxiety hits ……….  :-\
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on January 10, 2016, 08:50:18 PM
Hello CLKD, I have sent PM xxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 11, 2016, 09:16:35 AM
 :thankyou: so much - read it  ;)

It took over in waves yesterday - makes me feel scared that I will go back to how I was in the 1990s.  Will make an appt with my GP who is also my late friend's Doctor.  I upped my ADs last night.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on January 11, 2016, 09:42:39 AM
I would like to hold your hand through cyberspace if you would like me to. I have recently come to understand a little of what you describe.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 11, 2016, 09:58:36 AM
Please do and thank you. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: newbeginnings on January 11, 2016, 10:03:07 AM
I have had severe anxiety panic and agoraphobia for most of the last 5 years. Its still too painful and difficult for me to talk about. I have glimpses most days now of finding some healing which keeps me from sinking into total despair. I identify very much with what you say CLKD. I hope today will bring some better moments.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 11, 2016, 12:35:27 PM
 :thankyou:

When deeply depressed I can't talk about anything.  Once I became stable I talked to everyone and anyone who would listen to make sure that people are aware as to the depths sufferers can reach - I don't use the word 'sufferer' unless necessary.  As for those who feel 'low' but say they are depressed  :bang: :bang: :bang:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 18, 2016, 08:15:11 PM
It has lifted ……….. for now.  Off to see the GP this week for support.  Maybe ask for a script for 10mg to take when the brain needs more support.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: newbeginnings on January 21, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
It is so encouraging to read posts like yours WTD and all the others. I am newish on the forum and have never before found a space to express what I'm going through with so many others who understand. My experience is so similar to yours I could have written your post except I'm not si good at expressing myself. I am just beginning to turn a corner like you.
Its so good you have a good gp and support.
Wishing you lots of brighter and encouraging moments to get you through to a peaceful and fulfilling place.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: coldethyl on January 21, 2016, 12:45:15 PM
Hope that everything continues to improve for you WTD. I think I have been lucky in that your GP recognises the hormonal element to your depression and is trying to work with that. I'm struggling to get my GPs to take my anxiety as anything other that just a return of a previous anxiety episode yet it feels so much more out of my control than previous episodes when CBT helped. Some days I can feel the chemical shift and the almost instant feelings of panic and despair and no amount of challenging my thoughts etc shifts it, although I do find trying to remain as calm as I can lessens the impact. I think that just having that extra mike of support from your health care provider is part of the battle as I just feel like a malingerer these days with the number of phone calls and appointments I've had.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Justjules on January 21, 2016, 12:59:56 PM
It seems like help and support is very hit and miss. Some have great GP support, access to good therapy etc. but others don't.  My GP is so hard to get appointments with and I'm not keen on any of the others because you feel like they don't know your history and you as a person.

I need to know why I am getting this more and more often. Second bad episode in a year and although I know it starts off with a health worry, why does it escalate much worse than it used to and yet they say it won't be a hormonal thing now that I am post meno of at least 6 years?

I can't bear the thought that this is it for the foreseeable future for me, there just no end in sight. Sick of trying to think of what on earth I can do next whilst all the while trying to have a normal life and cope with all the day to day stuff and what the future brings i.e. having to look after my Mum. How will cope with all that when I can't cope with myself, it really adds to my anxiety in a big way.

Coldethyl, I don't think you could be classed as a malingerer. I think if your GP can see how much you try to help yourself they would understand. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 21, 2016, 04:40:15 PM
My heart goes out to you WtheD …….. I had breakthrough depression recently and it scared me …….. so I upped my ADs for 3 mornings and fortunately it passed. 

I try to look no further than half a day at a time.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 21, 2016, 05:14:00 PM
It was painful for you too?  Most people think that mental problems are in the head, for me it was physical too.  I ached after a bad bought. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on January 21, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
Just read your post, WTD, and I think you were right to leave your job - if employers intimidate their employees because they are suffering from depression then the problem is only going to get worse.  I left my job last spring (after six years, as well) after suffering severe depression &, like you, found I started ruminating over things whilst at home so I started volunteering as it got me out of the house, helped to give me a sense of purpose & there was no pressure.  I'm not saying it's for everyone but it definitely helped.  I know what you mean about not wanting to get up off the bedroom floor & do anything - I was like that !ast February & March & was given diazapam which helped but it is not a long term solution because of the high dependency risk.  In November, I started to head back downhill but CBT helped me back up again.  It's !ike being on a hormonal rollercoaster as I have recently been going through another dip (after Christmas).   My current job is not helping (I had to start working again late last summer for financial reasons & I am desperate to !eave).  Like you, I tend to be wary of posting when feeling depressed, hence me not being on here as much lately.  I have had problems with AD's because of nausea, insomnia &, worst of all, reactions.  I used to be able to take my SSRI AD's without any problems until !ast year when I started coming out in bumps & getting itchy, the day after taking them.  I did try again recently but the same thing happened.  Just riding through without meds at present but will consider trying amitriptyline if I get really bad again.  Thanks for your posts & for giving us hope that it DOES get better. Xxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 21, 2016, 08:14:50 PM
Could be the coating that you are reacting to.

Don't wait …….. MadBloss …….  talk to your GP sooner rather than later, the longer the brain is depressed the longer it can take for medication to 'kick in'.

"the psychiatrist sats my problems are psychological not psychiatric hence why the ads dont work for me "  - and the difference is exactly?  >:( - ADs usually work, people expect a cure though and that sometimes don't happen; coping is the best I can hope for. At least I get out of bed in the morning and we have a Life 2-gether.  Also, ADs can take time before the sufferer notices a real difference, 8-9 months sometimes. 

In the UK a Psychiatrist can prescribe medication, a Psychologist can't …….. but they both deal with mental illness and problems that arise.  The former can admit patients to Hospital, the latter is more inclined to advise seeing a GP for advice. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on January 22, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
I didn't even realise I was depressed but now, 10 weeks into the ADs I know know that I was a high functioning depressive until I reached the point I was no longer functioning and the anxiety took over.

I still have some side effects kicking about and things are not right all day every day, but on the whole the benefits are becoming clearer by the day.  :)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 22, 2016, 10:33:59 AM
That's good.  Little steps.  Breakthrough depression can be a problem !
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Justjules on January 22, 2016, 02:31:13 PM
I didn't even realise I was depressed but now, 10 weeks into the ADs I know know that I was a high functioning depressive until I reached the point I was no longer functioning and the anxiety took over.

I still have some side effects kicking about and things are not right all day every day, but on the whole the benefits are becoming clearer by the day.  :)

BJ, that's me exactly. Can go around with a smile on my face until bam, hits me and gradually there is a physical decline and then meltdown. I think it's hard to cope with one or the other but when you get depression and the anxiety together it's hell. Been to see my therapy lady so I'll report on the therapy thread. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on January 22, 2016, 04:36:48 PM
There was a time I would have run a mile from ADs, beta blockers and psychotherapy as I would see them all as a sign of weakness.  I have been such a fool, if only I had asked for help sooner but was too proud and determined to  cope.  But I wasn't coping.  I have had to admit weakness to regain my strength.  Menopause just might have been my saviour for bringing all this to the fore.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 22, 2016, 05:25:55 PM
I wanted to know what was causing my depressive illness - was it inherited or was there another cause.  But none of the medics was interested in finding out a cause - it was a Psychiatrist who visited me at home because my GP was so worried that noted I had a 22 month cyclical 'thread' (not the word I'm looking for  ::)) of depression.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: walking the dog on February 10, 2016, 10:45:16 AM
update . saw psychiatrist what a waste time she saud come of the ads and wait for therapy but as she had only emailed psychology five minute before she saw me she had no idea where I am on waiting list. I was a bit weepy to say the least and I asked her how I was meant to cope until I got the therapy which could be months she said theres no quick fix! I asked her if my leg was broken would she send me away saying wait for treatment your on a list well she wasnt happy id said that and asked if I was inferring she wasnt helpibg me to which I told her she wasnt . well that was that im discharged into care of my gp its good job shes fab or I honestly dont know where id be. on a better note saw menopause consultant who was fab im now on estradol 50 patch twice weekly and utrogestran dats 1 to 14 of calendar month and I have to loose weight but im willing to try as I would do anything to reduce symptoms.  im back at specialist in ten weeks xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 10, 2016, 04:21:08 PM
That seems dismissive  >:(.  Keep taking the ADs, if these aren't helping then ask the GP for something else: there are several types available, ring the appropriate Dept. to see how long the waiting list is likely to be and if you are able, you maybe go onto a list if someone cancels?

Have you thought about contacting your local MIND Charity group, they were really helpful for me recently.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 10, 2016, 04:21:32 PM
There's to be a new programme about manic depression next week, Monday I think.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on February 11, 2016, 11:46:59 PM
Hi I'm new to this forum and have just read through some of people's chat.....

I am 48 and have suffered depression on and off for years, but every time I have a " blip".... It seems a bit worse than the last.....

I was on citralopram last 5+ years and all last year I wasn't firing on all cylinders.... From around October when weather changed I dipped faster..... Went to doc and also explaining I was having flushes etc I was put on low dose hrt..... Also changed my ad,s to mirtazapine45mg.... My mood dipped and dipped..... Christmas was awful!!!

Fast forward two weeks into new year and I also got beta blockers.... Started seeing councillor (she told me of this site).....

Last week I was on my knees struggling: crying, wanting to stay in bed, struggling to hold it together at work, etc etc.......and the constant churning in my stomach.... Even going to loo was an effort.....

I usually love to have a laugh, a blether shop etc......but just now I feel I'm sinking, my councillor advised this forum, and it all seems familiar.....I just want to be "me"
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on February 12, 2016, 09:58:07 AM
Bless you, you sound so sad  :foryou:.  Welcome to the forum.  Would you like to introduce yourself in the New Members section as more people will meet and welcome you there and that might lift your spirits a little.  Your post could get lost in the middle of this thread.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 12, 2016, 12:56:37 PM
 :bighug:  been where you were and survived!  Why didn't your GP 'up' the dosage of the Citalopram?  I have to increase my dose of the 'sister' drug occasionally when I get break-through depression.

Which Beta-blocka has been prescribed, I take Propranlol 40mg at night.

>wave Babyjane<
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on February 12, 2016, 01:13:07 PM
 :peace:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 12, 2016, 01:22:43 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: orchid on February 12, 2016, 01:50:20 PM
Ah Mandz you poor girl! I was on Mitrazepine 30mg and it made me more anxious, I had to stop it. Long story short, I've tried other AD's but Dosulepin an old Trycyclic is the only one I can take. You probably need to see your dr.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: walking the dog on February 12, 2016, 04:37:20 PM
big hug mandz depression is a terrible thing I was on mitrazapine 15 mg for a year with duloxetine and propranalol I recently came off the mitrazapine as it didnt help and im reducing the duloxetine as its not helped either im also on hrt I have had psychosnalytical psychotherapy which helped a lot.for me talking therapy is the wsy forward but everyone is different you could find an AD to suit you. I really hope you do. big hug
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on February 16, 2016, 01:12:12 AM
Sorry had trouble finding this again

I'm really struggling: my citralopram was at its highest dose, so doc decided to try mirrazapine and am at highest dose of 45mg... And diazapam 10mg... Beta blockers and hrt!!!

Am still on my knees.... Been waiting nearly 4weeks to see physiatrist.... Don't know what more I can do xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Travel Lover on February 16, 2016, 08:44:19 AM
Hello Mandz, have a  :bighug:  I know exactly what you are going through. I have had depression & anxiety on & off as well (had PND & extreme PMS too).   I look back now & realise I started to feel worse in winter 2013 when bewidering peri symptoms flared up (I didn't know it was peri until I found this site).  This time last year, I was exactly the same as you except I couldn't go into work - I was signed off sick (my workplace was contributing to my depression & I eventually left).  At my lowest points, I have phoned a well known national helpline (I am not sure if I am allowed to mention them on here) as they are sympathetic, will listen &, although they cannot give much advice, they can help you to think more clearly.  Also, like you, I am struggling to find the right antidepressants as I had escitilopram which worked wonders for me, even on a very low dosage, until I started to react to it (amongst other things - another stupid peri symptom).  I have diazapam for emergencies but cannot take these too frequently.  I think I probably need to try a tricyclic again as I am currently struggling. Mirtazapine didn't work for me either - I just became an anxious zombie but we are all different - there must be something out there that will work!
Is your workplace supportive because that will give you some reassurance.   Could you reduce your hours temporarily or get signed off by your gp?  I know what you mean about wanting to feel like 'me' again - I actually said that same sentence to my husband last night.  Sending best wishes xxx :hug:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Justjules on February 16, 2016, 10:57:58 AM
Hi Mandz - sorry to hear you are struggling so much.  There are a lot of us ladies in the same boat on here.

Can I just ask you because I feel exactly like you do, how did you get a referral to an actual psychiatrist and not just psychotherapist and what difference is there?

x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on February 16, 2016, 12:16:35 PM
Hi , my go has referred me, she said she has went as far as she can go with medication and needs someone more qualified in mental illness!

I'm actually crying messaging this. All the advice I read tells me to keep talking to people and I do, but I know the ones I do talk to are bound to be getting fed up of it/me..... I'm fed up of it/me!!!!

I try to explain how I feel: worthless, sad, empty, lonely, useless, pathetic knotted up inside
They respond: but your not, your needed, we care

I know all that..... But I'm trying to explain that's "how I feel"..... Not what I am! I open my eyes and I don't want the day to start.....I have to think what's for dinner that night, I don't know??!!!! I worry!
Gawd there's washing needing done, shopping needing done, cleaning needing done........ I want to sit  and cry ......it's all mundane and all the while I feel tired (I can't get enough sleep btw)......

I've been signed off my work now....4 weeks!!! My work was very supportive..... But I'm mortified not coping..... And I usually like my job..... I'm sinking and don't know how to stop it
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 16, 2016, 12:22:37 PM
A Psychiatrist is able to prescribe medication, admit to a Hospital as well as arrange a Section under the Mental Health Act.  He/she will be likely to see sufferers on a regular basis as necessary.

A Psychologist is able to refer back to a GP, sometimes to a Psychiatric Ward but not, in the UK, allowed to prescribe.  He/she will listen, support, may make suggestions but will never tell a sufferer 'what to do'. 

I have found both specialities useful during the 1990s.  The brain is an organ often forgotten, I have a theory that the longer the brain is depressed the longer it will take for medication to begin easing symptoms.

Mandz - you R lucky that your work is able to sign you off for 4 weeks.  Do you have a health dept. there?  When do you see the GP again?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: coldethyl on February 16, 2016, 12:31:31 PM
Sorry you feel like this. I've never suffered from severe depression but can empathise with how it is making you feel as my severe anxiety also makes me feel " worthless" and so on. It's hard to tell yourself that those aren't facts about you when you feel them so overwhelmingly but hopefully a good mental health professional will be able to help you find a solution that helps you and supports you through this. A psychiatrist should be able to prescribe a better cocktail of medication should they think that necessary - I know that anti-psychotics can be used at lower doses for severe intractable depression so that may be something you could try if other meds haven't helped. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Justjules on February 16, 2016, 01:09:25 PM
Mandz, can you afford to go private?  If you could, you would be seen more or less straight away.  I really empathise with you.  That's what gets to me as well - the mundane everyday stuff that I can't be bothered to do or find physically impossible to do as well.  I told this to my therapist on Friday and she made me put it all into a bit of perspective and not to worry about all that and delegate as much as I could.  My other half is not getting proper meals at night at the moment as I've no appetite to shop, let alone cook and the washing just gets thrown in when I can manage but yes, it does get to me.

Can you telephone MIND - I think CKLD has suggested they are really helpful when you are feeling so bad, or see if there is some sort of 'walk-in' place you can visit to offload a bit.
x

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 16, 2016, 02:01:18 PM
JustJules: Could your other half eat 'out' at lunchtime and then bring back sandwiches or bits and pieces to eat in the evenings?
What do you have in your pantry/freezer that could be thrown together?  Himself makes pancakes when I really can't eat.  He also has sun-dried tomatoes in oil, fish in oil, there's always cheese around, which can be made into a light pizza-type meal.  I've been known to boil the kettle, put an Oxo cube into a mug, pour boiling water on and add rice and a few peas ……. it's better than nowt ;-)

M&S have good light bites too, apparently.  Or is there a deli close by that could make up some tasty small dishes for you?  Mum has used Wiltshire Farm Foods successfully as well as ? Oaklands ? - both companies deliver regularly.

If I drop dead tonight the housework remains! so when I can I does, when I'm tired I tend to read or sit in our garden.   ;)  MIND were certainly helpful when I sent an e-mail to our local Branch, letting me know the times of the various walk-in sessions. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on February 16, 2016, 11:16:56 PM
Hi all I don't know how I can go private, I'm not sure I could afford it!
Where do I find out? I'm really clutching on by my fingernails, today I went to see the pharmacist to beg for some kind of help: I explained that back in October I went to doc to say that I felt I was dipping and was flushing and that my medication was changed from citralopram to mirtazapiine and 1mg of ellese hrt ..... And then beta blockers ...... But instead of improving I'm worse,

She listened and said she would contact my health centre and see what could be done, now I've to wait, probs tomorrow before I can get any joy from doc, I feel like I'm being over needy and pathetic..... I just want it all to stop.  :'(

Thank you all for being so understanding with me!

Btw is there anyway I can find this page quicker.... I keep losing it xxx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 17, 2016, 04:13:01 PM
Start at the top " show unread posts since last visit" and click.

Or make a note of the 'effects of depression' title and use the 'search' box

You can get referred to a Consultant via your GP.  He/she will write a referral letter to post or for you to take if you decide to go privately.  The GP will know who sees Private Patients in your Health Area, it may well be the same Consultant as works in the NHS.  If you want to know costs, ring the Dept. at the Hospital to find out.  I would expect to pay from £120-200 an hour.

Is the Pharmacist going to ring you?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: orchid on February 17, 2016, 06:48:45 PM
Mandz..so sorry you're going through such a bad time.I was like you a few weeks ago, I was crying out for help as I felt so depressed and really ill. Severe nausea, no appetite agonising abdo pain. I rang the local crisis team and they couldn't help either as I had no suicidal intent, for all I felt it! Anyway, long story short I got a NHS referral to a psychiatrist and he wasn't really much help, they deal mostly with self harm and suicide. I'm guessing a private one may be more help. I ended up going back on the Trycyclic Dosulepin which I had been on for about 15 years and that's the only AD I can take. I believe I'll be on it for life now, there is talk it's to be discontinued, but I think that was just a manufacturing blip. My flushes have returned in recent months with all this upset, but I'm resigned to not taking HRT again as the headaches and cramps are too much. I'm 57 now and postmenopause, so just going to concentrate on healthy eating and exercise. I'm feeling much better now 6 weeks on my AD's. I'm waiting for level 3 CBT, but I've had to struggle to get this far! Hope you feel better soon. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Two hoots on February 17, 2016, 07:29:38 PM
Until August 2014 I had no idea what depression really was, but without any warning I had all the feelings Mandz has described, it was an awful time.  After crying for days I finally phoned my GP and asked for help, he started me on Citalopam and I expected them to work in a few days, only when I googled the tablets I found that they take months to work.  When at the lowest point I would sit with a box of tissues at my side and cry, I couldn't be bothered to do any housework I forced myself to have a shower and wash my hair but I was exhausted just doing that. I couldn't clean my teeth without nausea and would go days not eating anything but toast.  After a few weeks I felt more like my old self and decided the tablets a waste of time and stopped taking them, and until christmas 2015 I felt much more settled and only had the odd jittery day.  I think everyone finds christmas stressful and to be honest rather than looking forward to spending time with my family I wanted it over which is not like me at all. In January I hit another low point but this time I asked my GP for help straight away and I have decided to give the medication time to work. This forum helped me massively and I have often read posts with tears streaming down my cheeks, I'm so sorry for everyone who feels depressed or anxious but you are not alone.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 17, 2016, 08:16:42 PM
STOP GOOGLING!!!   :bang: :bang: :bang:

The longer the brain has been depressed the longer it takes for the medication to work.  Some people have a quicker result with ADs then others.  I found that medication that supposedly took 10-14 days to kick in, I had a good result within 3 days.  I expect that the Citalopram were beginning to work? but you stopped them ……… which is what I did years ago until I was told by a Pyschiatrist who attended at home that I would need to take a low maintenance dose for Life.  Acceptance was difficult but once I realised that DH and I had a Life again  ;)

If you are hungry, do you not eat?  if you were diabetic or had heart problems, would you not take the medication?  so if your are prescribed ADs which don't give side-effects …………  ;).  Let us know how you get on!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Two hoots on February 18, 2016, 09:17:03 AM
It was because I Googled my tablets I found this forum  :)

It's been 4 weeks on Citalopam 20mg , the first few days I felt slight nausea but otherwise no side effects. I can't say yet whether they are starting to work, but I have had 1 weepy day since taking them, I know it's still early days and if they don't work that I can try different medication.

I have an appointment with my GP in two weeks to check my progress and dosage.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on February 18, 2016, 06:50:10 PM
I was started on citalopram but I also got nausea and upset stomach and headache and worse anxiety.  I was changed to the sister EsCitalopram which causes less side effects and I am better on those.  They took about 8 weeks to really work though and I am on a low dose.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on February 18, 2016, 07:13:38 PM
If there are no side effects keep taking them for at least 6 months.  That gives the brain support as well as breathing space  ;) by which time, you will have forgotten that you are needing them!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on March 28, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
I've just had a read through all this thread again and feel it should be bumped every so often because depression is such a hard thing to talk about or explain and reading through many pages on the forum a helluva lot of us are going through or have had it! .......... And to me, it's a very  "isolating debilitating feeling"

I'm still struggling, but not as bad as when I first posted...... Thank u all for being so kind and lovely to me.....but to be honest it's only now after re-reading the thread with a clearer mind that I'm taking in what you have all said, at the time when I was at my lowest I couldn't think straight so wasn't onboard with people's posts!!!! Also, I've realised I never thanked any of you for responding to my posts--- sorry, thank you and sending much hugs xx

I'm planning returning to work in a fortnight, that will be nine weeks altogether since I was signed off, and to be honest I really beat myself up about being off work something terrible, and I don't think I'm 100%--- in fact I know I'm not, but.....I need to be in a normal environment again, too much time on my owns not good for me now



Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 28, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
At my worst I couldn't lift my head from the pillow  :'(.  The medication leaves me weary sometimes but at least I can get out of bed and sit in our garden, anything else is a real + !
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on March 28, 2016, 01:08:24 PM
It's an awful thing CLKD..... And so hard to explain to anyone

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 28, 2016, 02:32:32 PM
I stopped trying.  Unless a person has suffered then they don't empathise well! and why do we need to justify our depression?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Lizab on March 28, 2016, 05:01:31 PM
I know now that I had no clue about depression and anxiety before this. One of my closest friends suffers and it kills me to think how many times I must have said the stupidest things to her. I honestly thought it was falling into a pattern of sadness and self-pity, and that if you let yourself be sad for awhile, then consciously choose to not be sad anymore, that was all it took. I almost think it needs a different name because I guess I thought it meant feeling depressed for a long time.
Since the meno experience, I've learned it's totally not the same thing. I can be happy as a lark and suddenly feel something (the hormones? Brain chemicals?) flooding my brain and Boom! I'm anxious/depressed. It's the most difficult thing I've ever had to try to cope with in my life.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 28, 2016, 06:05:19 PM
Give your friend a huge hug and tell her that now you have more awareness of how depression can feel.  When I am depressed, even my shadow aches.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on March 28, 2016, 07:20:10 PM
I agree with CLKD give your friend a hug and just tell her you can see now ......she will understand and thank you for it
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Lizab on March 28, 2016, 08:06:36 PM
I already have. She's a sweetheart and we laughed at how stupid I was. She knew that there was no way anyone who hadn't been through it themselves could understand.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on March 28, 2016, 09:18:14 PM
Awwww that's good

Not stupid at all..... Just that you didn't understand at the time xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on March 29, 2016, 07:32:39 AM
I think I am going to have to restart my ADs  :(  despite the side effects I was better when I was on it and three individual people noticed the difference in me.

I hate medication but I am not good 2 weeks after stopping it  :'(
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Mandz on March 29, 2016, 09:40:19 AM
Believe me bj .....if you are dipping without them but felt you were better on them, then please don't stop taking them, because the further you sink the further you have to climb back up .......and I wouldnt wish how I've been with depression on anyone

But also remember that stopping them just because you feel better is not a good idea ......the side effects do settle xxx

Ps I hate medication too, but if it works .... :great:
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 09:43:51 AM
 :bighug:  BJ!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: coldethyl on March 29, 2016, 10:21:08 AM
BJ, perhaps give it a bit more time to settle before making a decision. I think feeling a bit rubbish is par for course after withdrawal and your body may just need of time to adjust. Obviously don't let things get so bad that you are at rock bottom before restarting them- maybe go and have a word with your GP and see if they can suggest anything. A lower dose perhaps? X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dulciana on March 29, 2016, 11:38:33 AM
I'm not very clued up on depression treatments, but I would think one of the most vital things first of all, if you are suffering, is to tell somebody.  That's another really good thing about this website.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 12:06:40 PM
Who to tell though  :-\.  First port of call ought to be the GP or Practice Nurse, or walk into a MIND meeting. 

My family are too judgemental for me to share any medical issues with them.  So DH and I make sure that over the years I have had a working relationship with our GP who has been very good.

BJ was on a very low dose.  I take a maintenance dose of 5mg at night and breakfast time, upping it to 10mg at night and 5mg at breakfast when I get breakthrough symptoms.  It is about finding medication that doesn't make me nauseous! but it isn't a cure.  I feel hung over most mornings on waking but that passes once I'm out of bed.  I try to accept any side effects and push on through the day, as long as the anxiety doesn't take over I manage half a day at a time.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on March 29, 2016, 12:10:28 PM
BJ- if you felt better on them then take them again.
Why do people hate taking medication? :-\
A diabetic takes insulin, etc,etc,etc.
Don't feel bad about it. Our brains get sick,so why not take meds to make it better,same as anything else.
When I first went on ADs people use to say to me " oh you don't want to be on them" :-\

Sorry,just had to get that off my chest ;D I'll shut up now  :-X
 :hug: to you all who are suffering. X
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
>wave Dyan<  - I think that BJ was feeling ruff so stopped taking it to see the effects - maybe a hike in the drug might over-ride any symptoms, it really is Trial and Error at a time when we want to feel well  :-\.

It gets to be Hard Work  :sigh: ………. so many conditions mimic others which makes it difficult to sort the chaff from the straw!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: babyjane on March 29, 2016, 12:18:58 PM
thank you all so very much for your concern for me, it is so reassuring to read your posts.  :hug:

I just typed a long reply and it disappeared into cyberspace so to cut a long stary short I have an appointment with my GP next week and will see how things go between now and then.

Basically I was not depressed and they did little for my anxiety.  then the side effects outweighed the benefits and they numbed my emotions.  I don't need my emotions numbed, I need to be able to feel in order for my therapy sessions to be effective, no matter how painful they might be.

I will be guided by my GP who I trust, although it was he who suggested stopping them in the first place.  Yes, there might be a better one for me that I could try or I might feel better in another week anyway.  I will report back  :)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 12:22:08 PM
>morning!<  are you keeping a list of your feelings on and off the medication? 'cos once I feel better I forget exactly how bad I felt  ::)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on March 29, 2016, 12:26:58 PM
CLKD < wave>
Oh I see. Didn't know that ;)

I know what you mean CLKD. It is so hard to remember how bad you've been when you feel well.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 12:30:00 PM
Yep.  When I go to a situation where panic is a real risk, it doesn't happen - but I spend the time looking over my left shoulder for it to creep up from behind  :-\ ………. it's the physicality which over-takes me.  It's not in my head it's in my gut  :-\

When I'm fine I could take on the World - so Look Out  ;D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dyan on March 29, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
I'm looking :-\ :-\  :-\ :-\ :-\ ;D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2016, 03:02:48 PM
 ;D - ran out of steam, went into the gardening and attacked some weeds for a couple of hours  :D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on April 16, 2016, 09:32:43 PM
I ran out of 5mg AD so have cut the 10mg tablets in halve ………. have to keep telling myself that it's the reason I feel woozy in my head as well as slightly queasy with 'the runs' -  ::) and once I get my 5mg next week, I'll be OK again.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 06, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
 :bounce: 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on March 29, 2017, 07:34:56 PM
I was thinking earlier today.  Many ladies experience intense, debilitating anxiety at The Change and it is suggested that sufferers should be given HRT as it often caused by hormonal upheaval.  However, HRT can take a while to find something which suits as each lady is different.  I think that what ever the reason, anxiety should be treated with appropriate anti-anxiety medication 'as necessary', because it is likely to help symptoms more quickly.  Also, the sufferer will feel that she has been listened to and gets a sense of control, enabling her to return to discuss HRT when she has read up and is feeling stronger about discussing this with a GP who may be reluctant to prescribe. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 22, 2017, 05:40:18 PM
BUMP  :bounce: for new members
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Butterfly22 on September 22, 2017, 09:10:19 PM
Interesting thread, I took citalapram for 14 years but stopped working and tried a few but really find venlafaxine help loads. If I need help (tablets etc) I'll take them ☺️Xx
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 23, 2017, 02:21:00 PM
Tnx.  I found that after a few years my brain got used to the mix in the ADs, so my GP prescribed something different.  So far they have worked and I also self-medicate as required.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Nasil41 on September 24, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
I don't know what's going on with me ...is it anxiety depression or both but it's blooming awful and I want it gone  :'(
I'm on medication have been on and off for years . Have been off work for 4 weeks and can't see myself going back any time soon. I feel so isolated and alone and I want to start living again and enjoying life
 :hug: to everyone who is dealing with depression x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 24, 2017, 03:19:14 PM
You aren't alone whilst you post on here ;-).

When did you last have a med review, my GP sees me every 9-12 months to update how my mix is working. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Nasil41 on September 24, 2017, 03:42:11 PM
I have just had one
My mirtazapine has been increased to 45mg so I know I have to give it a few weeks to settle. If that doesn't help I will be asking to be referred back to psychiatrist x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 24, 2017, 04:09:05 PM
I found that the longer my brain had been depressed, the longer it took for medication to ease symptoms ;-)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on October 22, 2017, 03:05:26 PM
There seem several new Members suffering with various degrees of depression and anxiety so am  :bounce: this - if anyone wants to know more about these horrors, which are much better, do ask - or send me a PM. 

Whilst hormones may well cause the above, when I was so depressed (1980s/90s) that I was unable to get out of bed, eat, drink, think - it never crossed my mind that hormones might be involved.  Nor did my GP mention it.  It was difficult enough to find an AD which eased symptoms. Which they did once I found 1 that didn't make me sick . 

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 10, 2018, 04:20:45 PM
Here we are  ladyBT

Thing is CLKD - not amount of therapy is gonna help if the problem is really screwed up chemicals in your body.  I always describe it like having an untuned engine in a car - if you don't get the oil/water/air and electrical balance right - the engine runs rough/loudly or not at all!  - bodies are just the same.  If we could all change the way our bodies react just by thinking there wouldn't be about 47k + women posting on this site, the majority of whom have hormonal depression or emotional psychological issues due to the female chemicals in their female bodies!

To me although it might seem far too simple loads of illness that cant seem to be fixed are all to do with in-balance in the body.  The NHS never does proper testing of hormone levels - vitamins, minerals, thyroid, cortisol, inflammation in the blood etc.

Are you still seeing anyone?  Mental health services are always going on about "your support network".  I didnt have anyone - no friends (didnt have time) loads of illness in my family - my mother was disabled - my children were premature and one was a great ormond street heart baby having operations - then I married into a family with genetic cardiomyopathy!! only I didnt know it at the time - so I was always the one looking after everyone else. 
Has it got any better as you have got older or have you just learnt to live with it?


Many years ago there was a train of thought that concerned chemical imbalances in the brain.  My Dad in the 1960s underwent treatment in the form of deep sleep.  The idea I think was that the body would heal itself, including the brain if left to rest without input from outside stresses.  Along with that awful therapy ........... where the brain is stimulated.

Dad was given lots of drugs in order to maintain deep sleep.  For a while it seemed to work.  When my depression hit in the 1980s, I was told that I was 'pre-disposed' to depression.  So no offer of finding out if there was/is a chemical imbalance.

My pre-menstrual weeping episodes were different to the depression suffered later on.  CBT never helped.  I went into therapy to get rid of issues that were bugging me = anxiety.  That worked well; discuss, decide, ditch.  It didn't help my depression.

When my friend ended his life 2 years ago I contacted 'mind' charity as I was in danger for a while.  They were very helpful at the time and I didn't need to go to a walk-in centre.  I stopped any counselling sessions in the late 1990s.  My GP keeps me topped up with appropriate medication and I am more aware of how depression creeps up.  I have a loving husband  :-*.  Depression nor anxiety R no longer the forefront of my daily worries, in that I can go out and about - as long as I don't plan too far ahead!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Ladybt28 on August 10, 2018, 05:52:07 PM
CLKD - I know that there are supposed to be chemical imbalances in the brain which anti-depressants are supposed to fix but I think having had a lifetime of depression that the hormone thing can be much more of an over-ridding factor that is just ignored.

I am going to write something which when you actually consider it is totally horrific and knowing what I think I know now I cannot believe (a) how it was allowed to happen (b) why any doctor thought it was ok and (c) how I went along with it.

Here is the shortest version I can write
I started with depression and anxiety at 13 - I was given meds. I was told by a very forward thinking doctor in 1987 that I had ME (used too be called Yuppie flu!) because I had no energy and achy joints but there was nothing he could do for me and to go away and read new books on the subject.  At 26 I had my first child and had mega post-natal depression whilst still on the meds.  The short version is that for 40 years I have been prescribed and taken anti-depressants with the sum total of a total of 2.5 years off in all that time!  I stopped taking them 2.5 years ago.  In all that time they didnt make me feel any better, they only made me feel slightly more in control than when not taking them and basically they just made me feel numb.  I was sent off and on for counselling and mental health services but I felt pretty permanently down all those years.

I came off my meds whilst peri and the anxiety and depression was still there but it felt different - more in your face - I suppose because I was no longer numb!
So knowing what I know now about the symptoms of oestrogen deficiency - and hormonal problems generally - what conclusion have I come to?

(a) that I had hormonal problems throughout my fertile life resulting in the bad PMT - the heavy bleeding - the aching joints/lack of energy - diagnosed as ME and Fibrmyalgia - the weird headaches and the depression and panic attacks.
(b) the anxiety and depression was hormonal, because no pill or therapy made a blind bit of difference - I was not clinically depressed.
(c) now in menopause - the anxiety and depression/joint pain etc are just more of the same (without the depression meds) and if I can get my hormones right maybe I can live my life vaguely normally for what is left of it.

The terrifying thing is never once throughout all the PMT- premature births - 40 years of anti-depressants - aches pains and other weird episodes did any healthcare professional suggest or mention that I might have problems with my hormones or put 2 + 2 together and see that my problems started when my periods did!

I have said things like "imbalance - vitamins - thyroid - good gut flora etc" to medical people and they think I'm made and also they have said out loud that "I'm making it up".  Now it's hormone deficiency because I'm menopausal I'm not making it up?

That's why I am shouting and screaming now at everyone about HRT - it might just be the answer - I am praying it is - because otherwise it has been a miserable life. I have an amazing husband and great children but how good it is on the outside cant take away what you feel in your body or your head.  I am so disappointed that I couldn't or didnt find all this out sooner.



Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 10, 2018, 06:14:37 PM
Of course you are disappointed.  On the one hand you got on with Life. You were told in good faith that your symptoms were due to X, Y, Z and 'yuppie 'flu' was a common diagnosis during those years >sigh<.  I think at the time it was believed to be a credible diagnosis.

Sometimes it is easier to accept medication.  When I felt depressed I could not lift my head from the pillow and was certainly not well enough to fight for appropriate treatment.  But I was better once medication kicked in.  Fortunately.

Trial and Error when the patient is too ill or tired to query if that is the correct way to go.  Common across the various specialities sadly.  In recent years I think it's because the Government of the Day doesn't allow GPs time to get to know their patients! 

Don't beat yourself up about not realising.  Maybe keep a mood/food/symptom diary to chart your forward journey?



Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 02, 2018, 01:17:40 PM
Has anyone read Bryony Gordon's books, I found 'mad girl' a page turner.

There is a series of walks where 1 joins in at a specified time.  Called 'mental health mates' it may be of use to yourself or others you are in contact with.  There is a very good web-site. 

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dotty on September 02, 2018, 01:32:18 PM
Yes I've read ‘Mad Girl.'  Loved her description of putting the iron in her bag and taking it with her so she could convince herself that she'd turned it off. Can relate to that...... 😳 x
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on September 02, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
Sad.  I often wonder whether I've blocked up, as I have little recall.  I can't back track.  She's 12 months without alcohol.   :medal:

I have had to learn to listen to Himself.  I don't recognise when I'm off on 'one', i.e. obsessed about something that I think I can solve  ::) 'if only people would .......... ' !  Currently I am collecting Sealyham related stuff  :D.  I know that I can't have another pet  :'( but I can fund raise  ;)
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on December 07, 2018, 01:13:53 PM
I wake every morning feeling very low and know that I can spiral at this time of year  :'(.  Fortunately I rally after breakfast and fortunately I know that by mid-January my mind will B settled as any commitments will be over.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on December 15, 2018, 02:07:14 PM
Bounced
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Ladybt28 on December 16, 2018, 12:09:58 AM
Hey CKLD have your bounced this for me or are you in bother too?  I am in definite trouble and I don't like where my mind is going on occasion this last week and my mind and body together are behaving like they are sort of paralysed, it doesn't have to settle it's just one big black hole - like someone stopped the clock. I have to keep this too myself too because my darling hubby isn't fond of this time of year either and when he has had his own mental health troubles which are extremely complicated and very difficult to explain suffice to say a form of disassociative behaviour where he has been known to lose time! they have been at their worst at Christmas. I am always terrified something will set it off but luckily we have had 4 good years without one at Christmas and his last major breakdown was July 15.  Things have been stable since then but its always at the back of my mind.

Before the episode in 15 we had 7 years without major incident and that one caught me cos I took my eye off the ball and missed the barely visable warning signs - not that you can stop it happening mind but at least I would have been prepared.
See this waking feeling low - the grey dark mornings don't help do they?  I often wonder whether I would feel the same if I woke to sun and warmth every day of the year?  It's an experiment I would love to try but its not very likely to happen.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on December 16, 2018, 10:50:53 AM
For anyone suffering.   :bighug:  I am so apathetic this year about Ch.mas.  Few cards written.  1 decoration found.  Gifts sent to Oz and the US, Mum's are wrapped, labels to be written; DH has to wrap mine from him and vice versa. 

I could go under but don't feel depressed once I'm out of bed.  I wake feeling YUK but once I've eaten and got going, the feeling so far has gone.  But I looked at a packet of parcels we have to take to his brother and my heart sunk  :-\ and a flash of anxiety went through me.

Expectations?  Bugga ........ I wish someone would stop the clock or allow me to hibernate  ::). Does your husband have a form of autism that directs the disassociation?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Ladybt28 on December 16, 2018, 07:38:22 PM
No defo not autism - its very complicated and takes ages to explain. He's been under a psych for 7 months at a time twice. It is now been described as a dysfunctional coping mechanism which got out of hand!  (bit of an understatement) It first happened about 6 months after we first met 20 years ago and he had come out of a pretty bad marriage. When it happened in the early years it was like living with a complete stranger that I didn't recognise at all. When it was bad I described it once as him being a completely different person and luckily enough my very best friend is a rape counsellor and when I said "its like a completely different person comes and lives with me" said "are you sure there aren't two of them living in there"?  To which I replied "multiple personalities...isn't that just in books" and then followed it up quickly "have you ever counselled anyone with more than one personality"?  to which she replied "no its not just in books and yes I have".  At which point I realised that I probably wasn't off my head in what I had been thinking and that it was a bit serious.  The real scary bit was when my beloved husband "returned" from one of his "episodes" he didn't remember a thing and to be honest there were occasions when he didn't know where he had been or what day it was!

It has caused some traumatic times as we would get the situation when he was working (he works with me now last 14 years - much safer!) but at different firms that he would go to work but not turn up and they would ring me and ask me where he was and I didnt know!! and/or I could'nt find him and when I did he didnt remember what had happened!  In our life together he has "missing memories".  It sounds very bizare.  Luckily as I said nothing bad since 2015.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on December 16, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
His brain shuts off maybe, coping strategy; easy to understand.  Many times I have needed to do so but haven't been able to.

How much does it worry him?  He probably isn't aware of the triggers?  It is understandable that some people disappear with no memory when found.  A complete blank.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 19, 2019, 04:55:59 PM
Every morning I wake low.  Almost depressed, fortunately the feelings go once out of bed and at it. 

This too will pass particularly as nights are pulling out  ;) and C.mas is over  :D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dancing Queen on January 19, 2019, 06:10:07 PM
Yes CLKD the statement "this too will pass" is what I have to keep reminding myself when feeling floored by the fact that my life is not how I want it to be right now...
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 19, 2019, 10:56:30 PM
'floored' - oh we do come up with some good descriptive words on this Forum.

By mid-morning as long as I eat correctly and don't allow my body to get hungry, I feel a lot better, able to Get On!  PHEW!
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dancing Queen on January 19, 2019, 11:09:14 PM
Yes lol...floored😃In my head it means being kicked up the ass with your face down the..well..floor..sums it up! 😃
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 19, 2019, 11:10:28 PM
Would half a day at a time work for you?  Until you can see the wood for the trees [never worked out what that means exactly  ::)] : take time to look for snowdrops ? which reminds me ........
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Dancing Queen on January 20, 2019, 10:01:47 AM
Yes I am trying to train myself to live in the now rather than what might happen next week or next month..mind you looking out at the weather today the now isnt all that appealing! 😒
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on January 20, 2019, 12:04:17 PM
It's great here.  But weather when I was severely depressed made not a jot to it.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on June 21, 2019, 10:43:02 PM
When I read this back I can see how far I have travelled.  Not all of it good but with support from a good GP, a loving husband and medication which helps ........
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on July 12, 2019, 05:29:55 PM
I remembered  ;D
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: NRGEE on July 12, 2019, 07:12:56 PM
I have suffered with depression since I was 15yrs old  :'( I am now 48 and am currently suffering with another episode of depression. On top of coping with this- I have recently become perimenopausal too. This is causing me to suffer with anxiety and I have had a big panic attack( which I ended up in A and E) . I am on a multitude of antidepressants which have been keeping my mood stable for some of the time. I have a great psychiatrist. I mentioned to him my periods were irregular and I wondered if I was perimenopausal too. He told me to go to my GP. Again my GP is superb. I have been seen v regularly by my GP, CPN and psychiatrist. I have felt suicidal at times and the Samaritans got me through the night ( I live alone). I attended a lecture on the menopause organised through the university where I work voluntarily. It was a consultant in specialising in HRT/menopause who spoke for an hour. People asked questions and she also said she would stay behind to answer questions. It had taken a lot of effort for me to go feeling depressed; but I wanted to learn more about the menopause. I waited until everyone had gone and then went up to speak with her. I immediately broke down and floods of tears. I hadn't expected this at all- or I wouldn't have gone to see her. The Dr was v nice. I explained my circumstances and she said I have a v good GP and she would have put me on the same HRT treatment that he had. She also explained that my recent panic attack and episode of wetting myself are symptoms of the perimenopause. The panic can just come on out of the blue for no reason. It is hard enough trying to cope with chronic depression and the thoughts of more panic attacks and wetting myself scares me. Tonight I am feeling v low and just hope that one of the forum members may reply to my post. For those who may need it- the free phone number for the Samaritans is 116123
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: NRGEE on July 12, 2019, 07:15:31 PM
ps I feel a little better having written the above post
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on July 12, 2019, 07:32:40 PM
It is what it is.  I try not to second guess it as I can alter within seconds from being OK to very low.  It can be like wading through treacle.  Add hormonal upheaval and it can become worse.

If oestrogen levels drop then the bladder may lose it's elasticity - maybe wear appropriate pads for the possible wetting scenarios ;-)

Medication really helps me get out of bed !
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on June 25, 2020, 06:03:22 PM
 In response to Kathleen's new topic in 'all things menopause'
Title: Depression and Sadness
Post by: Shari-O on July 14, 2020, 03:05:18 AM
Hi Everyone,
I am new here and struggling with so many different symptoms of menopause, but the worst is feeling isolated from family and alone because of my moodiness. I am so irritable and sad most days. Things that may have bothered me slightly before, infuriate me now, and I find it very difficult to be around my family without freaking out. To survive, I stay mostly to myself. Sometimes it helps (suffering alone), but for the most part, its become very lonely, isolating and sad.

I just don't know how to get through these horrible feelings. I can handle the hot flashes and night sweats, easy peasy. Its the sadness, crying, anger, irritability and insomnia that is driving me crazy.

Can anyone relate?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on July 14, 2020, 08:17:47 AM
Yep.  Hormones!  We have a recent topic about 'rages' - do read and join in.   :welcomemm:

When I was menstruating I would be OK for 3 weeks then anything that I would usually have dealt with would send me into a frenzy of anger  :cuss: until the bleed began  :-\.  I would fly off the handle instantly.

How is your diet over-all?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: Kathleen on July 14, 2020, 08:55:19 AM
Hello Shari-O and welcome to the forum.

There are many ladies here you can relate and I'm one of them, I also hide myself away in order to cope with the horrible moods.

Taking HRT is the favourite for controlling menopausal moods but the range available is large and experiences also vary. For more advice I suggest  you also post in the New Members section because unfortunately newbies are not always noticed in the middle of an established thread.

Take heart you are not alone and the lovely ladies on the forum will be happy to help you.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: funnell on July 18, 2020, 03:04:26 PM
I want isolate from everyone+shut myself in home+can be as unhappy as I want, instead of
putting on a happy face mask as I go to work/shops. Pension age no longer 60 which I now am,
must wait another 6 years to retire. Can't take HRT as had pre cancer in breast twice+possible mastectomy
due. MORBID thoughts from my past +others misfortunes enter my thoughts all day .I'm scared to
get in the works vehicle(.I don't drive )I've known too many people lost some1 on roads.
I've known too many lost some1 to cancer. Several neighbours around this estate have died
within last 10 years+almost all were younger than me.19  year ago daughter murdered,dumped,found after
5 weeks. Traumatic childhood with fear,abuse,domestic violence. Partner gets on my nerves,although
he's kind, I keep imagining living alone +just my son visiting me. Becoming a hermit,ordering online
shopping, I can't tolerate happy people, crowds, noise ,my friends that have all their children safe+well.
I'm pulling away from those friends. My mood swings at times ,I need to keep away from people.
Antidepressants were prescribed last year ,not tried yet. Theyr full of chemicals, aren't they? Suppose
I binge drink too much 1 time, the effects of Anti  will be lessened. But I don't drink everyday. Am I heading for
 a breakdown? I only started meno in march, 1 whole year without period aged 60.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on July 18, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
You have had a lot in your Life.  Have you been in contact with any of the appropriate support groups?  Grief never really goes, it waxes and wanes but should be recognised as changing how we view daily life.

MayB contact AA?  You won't be alone as many people drink/drugs to cover grief.  Being with others can lessen any guilt - a problem shared etc.. 

Being alone won't ease your grief though.  Why didn't you try the ADs?  That's what they are designed for  ::).  We are all full of chemicals ..... food, drugs, daily belongings .........

Did U get support from a Police Section after the murder?  R there issues that are left hanging?  Maybe a separate thread?
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: funnell on July 21, 2020, 10:38:38 PM
Thanks CLKD for response. I go on other online forums, they understand  as theyv lost family members same way.
I may try antidepressants eventually,but giving up drinking may be difficult.  Are there any good natural alternatives to
HRT any1 can recommend that works for them. Been taking E Primrose oil for years now. Out of habit, not sure if it helps .
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on July 22, 2020, 06:28:20 AM
Giving up any crutch is difficult.  4 me it's the 'what if stopping the medication makes me feel worse?'.  The physicality of withdrawal can be tuff.  Alcohol is a depressant.  It 'depresses' feelings which are painful as well as lowing the brains resistance.

There is an alternatives room on the Forum to browse round.
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 23, 2020, 02:39:19 PM
Thinking about Rockhopper's remarks: never in all the years that I went to therapy and it was never an easy walk-in-the-door for me: if I stopped sessions not one professional contacted me to find out why?  I can understand the NHS not following up but when I was paying ......... and the hour became shorter and shorter in that the Psychologist arrived later with a list of excuses and began to leave earlier  :-\.  That made it obvious 2 me that she really couldn't cope with my phobia and had run out of ideas.  Or did all these so called 'experts' think that I had been cured?   :-\

The night I needed admission, crawling on the floor begging for help for my own safety the Doctor at the Private Unit told me on the 'phone to take more valium  :-\.  I did.  It helped. That was the advice .......... no follow up or other suggestions.



I did have a therapist who told me that I knew more about my problems than she had answers for and she kindly left 3 appts free during the next 3 months but I didn't go, rang and told her to give them to someone else. 
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: FrannyB on August 23, 2020, 07:49:18 PM
CLKD. From reading your posts I gather your experience of therapy was many years ago.
I think you have to realise that things have radically changed. Mental health is really recognised these  days. It’s probably so much different from what you experienced back in the day.

There are so very many successful types of therapy now. It’s honestly like night and day when you look back to the 90s.

You may well benefit from the new therapies that are now available, in fact I think all of us who felt short changed in years gone by should, if needed, consider the new types of help that are there.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 23, 2020, 07:55:49 PM
 :thankyou:  .........
Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: FrannyB on August 23, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
Would you consider therapy.
It’s something I’m looking into now after a few disasters years ago.
I think Rockhopper has mentioned the many options that are now available. She really got me thinking....so thank you Rockhopper.

Title: Re: Effects of Depression
Post by: CLKD on August 23, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
Rockhopper : why feel intimidated - you can't prove that my phobia didn't begin within a few hours of being born and I know how the treatment given affected my life from then.  I have never complained of an apron or weight gain ;-).  Ever.

As a recovering anorexic I have plenty of experience of eating disorders.  Nearly 70 years of experiences which at times have almost killed me.  I have felt how it affects me.  My husband knows how it has affected me.  I comment on my personal experiences.  Mine alone.  Many find my advice across the Forum useful  ;) ......... if you don't like it, don't read it.

In my experience of many years of therapy I have never found anyone in the profession who can actually feel phobic anxiety, fear, worry - I went to 1 therapist and could tell her exactly which page from which book she was making suggestions from.  [Clarie Weeks].  I told her that if it were as easy as those suggestions she would be out of a job.  We got on better after that .  She began to listen to me ........

I haven't time nor energy to go into therapy.  I can't face yet another disaster.