Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Postmenopause => Topic started by: Snowcat on July 24, 2025, 10:15:05 PM
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Hi. I know I’ve asked a lot of questions on here recently but please be patient with me as this really is the worst thing that’s happened to me - and believe me, I’ve been through some stuff! It’s just such a relief to find this forum and everyone’s been so helpful. My GP can’t offer me anything but sympathy as I’m
due back to gynae in August.
My problem is that my vulva is extremely sore, thin, red & raw from low estrogen and wrongly prescribed dermovate cream. I’m on vagifem, estrogen cream & Estraderm patches.
My question really is what do you find most helpful - oil or water based moisturisers for the outside bits? I know that oils are meant to soothe and protect the skin barrier, but they don’t hydrate whereas water based ones hydrate dry tissues - maybe I’m naive but I don’t know if I’m dry or just sore! I do know that hydromol ointment (which the gynae recommends) just seems to make it feel more sore - but then so does the estrogen cream although I understand that anything rubbed onto very sore skin will probably sting! I’ve used it before when the skin wasn’t as damaged and it didn’t sting then, and I did a patch test, so I know it’s not an adverse reaction. I just want to find something - anything - that will help relieve the soreness and stinging.
I have all the YES products in my cupboard so wondering what people find worked or works best for their sore skin - oil or water based? My gynae said most women have more success with oil based but then she said try whatever you like. I’m 2 months in to HRT treatments and any improvement is very minor so far …
Thanks all!
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This is not answering your question but while you are this sore are you monitoring what you eat or drink that may affect what urine does on the vulva.
Coffee, tea (the tannins in it), tomatoes (acidic) strong spicy food etc.
You might find a barrier cream such as Aproderm helpful re the urine.
One more month with the HRT could mean progress.
Are you washing underwear in water only or very little wash powder & rinsing really well ?
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Hi Minusminnie. Yes I’m careful what I eat as I also have painful bladder syndrome so can’t have lots of food typer including the ones you mention, but thank you for the suggestion.
I’m being careful with washing underwear too - I really hope you’re right about the possibility of one more month making a difference. I’m so tired of waking up in pain every morning and thinking here we go - another miserable day! I’m trying not to be too self pitying though because I know, from this forum, that I’m not the only one!
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I find the YES OB out of the Yes products best personally as it has coconut oil in which seems to be very soothing . I use it as well as the Estriol cream.
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Hi Jaypo. Thank you for that - that’s the thing about oils - they don’t rehydrate so yes that’s a consideration. Yes I’ve been on daily vagifem for ages now. Just waiting for the patches to kick in I suppose.
Thanks Pippa, that’s what I’ve tried today - I use the estriol cream as well. I’ve tried just using coconut oil but quite honestly nothing I use seems to make any difference.
Thank you both for taking the time to reply :-)
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A tip I got off of this site, and which I've used ever since (for about 5 years now!) was to mix a treatment called Olive and Bee vaginal moisturiser with ovestin before applying.
Olive and Bee contains olive oil and beeswax, so is oily and somewhat soothing on its own but not as moisturising as combining it with Ovestin, which seems to emulsify it. I find Ovestin pretty stinging on its own.
Sylk is quite a good water-based moisturiser to try. I didn't get on with Yes, although lots of people on here love it.
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Thank you for replying CherrySG - I have actually got some olive & bee - I tried it on its own but hadn’t thought of mixing it with the estrogen cream - wouldn’t that make it harder for the estrogen cream to get absorbed though? Maybe not - I just don’t know, but it’s an idea, and it obviously works for you, so thank you for that suggestion. I’ve got a sample of sylk I keep meaning to try too.
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Hi,
It’s not for everyone, buy I used a very thin layer of Vaseline, stopped the soreness and gave my skin chance to heal.
Hope you feel better soon.
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Thank you Spangles. It’s funny about Vaseline because some sites suggest it and others say not to use in the genital area. It’s all rather confusing! I’m pleased it works for you though - I guess we’re all just trying to find something that works for them.
Personally I think that it has the same consistency as the hydromol ointment which is problematic for me, but I’ll keep it in mind.
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Thanks Jaypo. That’s true. I did try sudocreme but that didn’t do much. I’m coming to the conclusion that anything will sting on sore skin, so it’s hard to tell whether it’s helping in the long run or not.
I try things and think this one seems ok then the stinging starts a little later .. so then I think maybe I need to use it more often until the stinging settles but it goes against all instinct really.
I’m just over 2 months in to treatment so would’ve though the stinging from the estrogen cream would’ve have settled by now … I’m not allergic to it because I’ve used it in the past. It didn’t sting then but then the skin wasn’t as badly damaged then.
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Hi Snowcat, I'm so sorry you're going through this, I am too. I was 12 years undiagnosed/misdiagnosed & it was only after reading on this forum I self diagnosed with GSM. I'm still not convinced the health professionals believe me because the notes on my NHS file say 'self diagnosed ' with GSM!
I find lidocaine both internally & externally 2 - 3 times a day calms things down considerably. Using that caused my gynae to discharge me because it proved her diagnosis of vulvadynia was incorrect!
I was using coconut oil but of late because I'm having a severe flare up, I'm not sure it's right for me. Sudocreme burns me too at the moment, even some of the natural moisturisers with herbs & beeswax do. I would try the lidocaine. It stings like crazy for about 10 seconds - really awful, but the relief is so worth it once it starts numbing everything. I've found prolonged regular use seems to have an accumulative effect. But perhaps bite down on a stick when you first apply it 😆 I can't stress enough the effects are very much worth it.
Sending you a massive hug 🫂
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Hi Mrsmitch. Thank you so much for replying and for the hug!
I did try lidocaine but it was strange because the first time it did nothing, then the second time it didn’t work until over an hour later! Maybe I wasn’t putting enough on .. (being afraid of it I guess!) although at 3 am this morning I was very tempted! I think I did too much the last couple of days causing the symptoms to flare up.
I’m sorry you’re suffering too - it’s really awful, and having to cope with the unhelpful attitudes of doctors etc is the last thing we need! No-one has mentioned Vulvodynia to me (yet) but like you, I’ve read up on all things that can cause these symptoms and that one scares me the most … I was told I had it once but the pain I went to gynae with that was nothing like this and this time they can see that the vulva is red raw. It’s so difficult to find something that doesn’t feel like it’s doing more harm.
I do use coconut oil occasionally as with just one ingredient what could possibly go wrong? 😑 at 3 am I was looking for my Vaseline pot as someone said that was a good option but I’d had a big glug of oramorph so didn’t find it! I find morphine is the only painkiller that works but my GP told me, in his wisdom, that ‘you shouldn’t need anything that strong!’ I just said ‘no, you’re right, I shouldn’t!’
I’m sorry you’ve been struggling with this for 12 years - that’s awful! Are you using any form of HRT now? I’m afraid that these moisturisers alone aren’t going to cut it. Sadly.
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Snowcat I'd you use a good 'dob' of lidocaine & it does get rid of the pain, it's an indicator that you DON'T have vulvodynia because that's nerve pain. The gynae insisted I had that & after a few years of various treatments from her that didn't work, I persuaded her to prescribe lidocaine. She snapped at me that it wouldn't work as I gad nerve pain. We'll it worked & in her strop she discharged me & said she couldn't help. That's when I self diagnosed GSM.
But there seem to be so many different things with similar symptoms we can have & it's very hard to get a correct diagnosis. My GP now says I have lichen sclerosis but I don't trust I do!
I use 4 pumps of oestrogen, 2 x progesterone plus nightly pessaries & ovestin creme. But I'm still in a huge amount of pain. I was prescribed dermovate for the apparent lichen but I can't use it as it burns.
If your pain hasn't eased with all the pain relief you've had (aside from oramorph) then clearly you haven't had the correct diagnosis & it's all just a stable in the dark. I really do feel for you.
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Hi. That’s interesting because I was told I had lichen sclerosus years ago (no symptoms - no pain or itching just an incidental finding) had biopsy - that came back negative.
Saw a different gynaecologist a few years later who said it was definitely lichen despite the NAD biopsy… still no itching, she gave me dermovate but I only used a little of it.
Fast forward 10 years and I was told again when I went to see them with what I now know is GSM, that I had lichen and given more dermovate to use ‘liberally for 2 weeks’ which I did - symptoms got a whole lot worse, so saw a consultant gynaecologist who said I should never have been given dermovate as it had further thinned my already thin & damaged skin which was being caused by low estrogen! Hence the extreme pain I’m in. Great!
I came off systemic HRT 2 years ago when I had pulmonary embolisms and tried to manage on just the vagifem - obviously unsuccessfully! Nobody told me then that I could have the HRT patches instead … so I’ve not long been on them making my way up the doses - it’s the soreness of the skin that drives me mad - not being able to sit down, even on a donut cushion…
I will try the lidocaine again. When I mentioned it to two doctors they both said ‘oh I wouldn’t use it there!’ but I do know that they often use it for women who’ve had surgery there so it must be ok …
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This is the problem we all seem to face, Snowcat, every 'professional ' we see has a different opinion about every treatment. My GP has just confirmed lidocaine is the best way to get pain relief in that area. But as I said if it doesn't work for you, it could indicate nerve pain, perhaps. My GP raised her eyebrows today when I told her I couldn't tolerate dermovate & that locoid is better for me. But I've never had a biopsy to diagnose lichen, she just took a look & told me I had it. So I could be making things worse although it does seem to help the itching I have.
I think I remember Bombsh3ll making a comment (apologies if it wasn't her) about how we should not use dermovate daily on our vulva.
I just wish for all our sakes, considering how many women suffer with a variety of painful debilitating issues, the powers that be in the NHS would get themselves sorted out & find out what each of us actually has & treat it accordingly. In the long run, surely it would save money.
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That’s what I’ve said too - the NHS would save a fortune if they treated us properly in the first place .. I’ve read guidelines Ayesha posted on Sunnyangel’s query and it’s brilliant! It’s excellent info for all the medical people - we should arm ourselves with a copy!
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The links contain such helpful information. I was given them by my menopause specialist at the hospital a few years back. What stood out to me in one of them was the statement that said we can have atrophy without visible signs. That was me, apparently. In agony for years & every time I had to endure an excruciating internal apparently nothing was visible. When I self diagnosed & again had to have an internal the GP said although she would treat it as atrophy there were very little visible signs.
The trouble is, as most of us can testify, you do have to tread very lightly when you see any health professional & you are armed with information they do not know. I mentioned a couple of things yesterday to the GP & she wanted to know if I follow Louise Newsome. I don't but BTW!
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With regard to the question of oil v water based - I was also wondering what the difference is and also Yes VM. I just asked the question on Google Chat and thought I would post here what it says just in case useful. I know I'm unsure myself which to use and very much need..
YES VM (Vaginal Moisturizer):
Purpose:
Primarily for long-term relief of vaginal dryness and irritation.
Mechanism:
It's iso-osmotic, meaning it matches the water concentration of vaginal tissues, releasing moisture only when the tissues need it, over an extended period (1-3 days).
Ideal for:
Daily use to maintain vaginal health, especially during menopause or when experiencing vaginal dryness.
Key feature:
Provides a slow, sustained release of moisture to rehydrate and soothe tissues.
YES WB (Water-Based Lubricant):
Purpose: To provide immediate lubrication during intercourse and reduce discomfort.
Mechanism: It's hypo-osmotic to iso-osmotic, meaning it releases water more rapidly than YES VM, providing a quick, slippery sensation.
Ideal for: Sex and situations where instant lubrication is needed.
Key feature: Provides a fast-acting, slippery surface for comfortable intercourse.
YES OB (Plant-Oil Based Lubricant):
Purpose: To provide a long-lasting, moisturizing lubricant, especially for extended periods of intimacy.
Mechanism: It's oil-based and formulated with plant oils, providing a richer, more moisturizing feel and longer-lasting lubrication compared to water-based options.
Ideal for: Situations where a longer-lasting, moisturizing lubricant is desired.
Key feature: Longer-lasting lubrication and a moisturizing feel.
In essence: YES VM is for sustained vaginal hydration, while YES WB and YES OB are for lubrication during intercourse, with YES WB providing a quicker, more immediate effect and YES OB offering longer-lasting lubrication.
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Thank you so much CherryC. That’s very helpful. No sex going on here while all this is going on - that shop is well and truly closed! 😂 I think I’ll try the Yes VM again - I really don’t try things for long enough to give them a chance - I just panic if things sting or don’t give relief straight away - unrealistic I know. Just that pain down below can be rather scary!
At least with the water based kinds like the YES VM you can use it often and it won’t interfere with the estrogen cream’s effectiveness.. that stings enough without a moisturiser stinging too! Thanks for replying.