Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: SpaceyTracey73 on May 16, 2025, 07:40:15 AM
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Good morning lovely ladies!
Quick rundown …..
Been peri for about 8 years now and getting LOTS of horrible symptoms.
Over the years i have tried numerous hrt preps and dosages, none of which have really sorted out my symptoms and definitely haven’t overridden my own cycles so I was still getting periods every 21/25 days.
Since October periods became even more erratic ( a thing between 14 / 28 days ) and symptoms ramped up massively :'(.
GP was thinking i may need to up my estrogen as on 3 pumps but did a blood test to check I was absorbing and my estrogen was actually really high so dropped down to 2 pumps.
I have also added desogesterel ( mini pill ) about 6 weeks ago to use alongside the 100 Utrogestan I was taking - hoping this may over ride my own cycle and improve symptoms and stop my periods.
Unfortunately this hasn’t happened- no real change to symptoms but I have been bleeding constantly- mostly only very light but it’s really getting me down as nothing seems to be helping - don’t know where to go from here - any suggestions??
I have been tested for so many things and all come back normal- currently waiting on results for possible adrenal tumour due to the huge random adrenaline rushes I get - oh such joy !!
Really hoping you may have some pearls of wisdom x
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Hi
I can't help much, but I've been in hell for 7 years.
I've used the mini pill, desogestral (cerazette brand) off /on. Previously if would always keep my estrogen lower and stable and stop my periods.
I tried it again last year and it no longer stopped my periods, or held mg estrogen down. So basically my system is now too strong ABC overriding.
So, in desperation this year, as mg own peri is now off the charts, I've started double dose. I'm 4.5 weeks in - it has stopped my period and, I tested at day 21 and my estrogen was very low.
I'll test again this month. It might supress my estrogen too much. We'll see.
I'm getting horrific start up suddenly affects - but that's me and my severely sensitised system.
The point is double cerazette has stopped kg periods immediately and is clearing suppressing much more than single did last year.
My GP is fine with me taking double dose.
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Thanks so much for the reply !
I have a gp appointment next week so will mention this to her.
Very interesting to hear that this has effected your estrogen levels too - I had no idea it would do this - my night sweats have definitely got worse since starting the mini pill and now having them during the day too
I think it’s such a balancing act in peri and was hoping the pill would help flatten out these wild fluctuations…… I will be glad when I finally get to that 12 month mark and hopefully things will be easier to manage !
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Yes, desogestral is meant to hold your estrogen flat at early follicular levels.
But it definitely wasn't and to on one tablet for me now.
I've been through chemical menopause (awful) and am now very tubed into what is low E for me. I've never experienced many low E symptoms through my peri until now. But what I did establish is true hot flushes are low E but night sweats are changing hormones - for me.
I've had sweats every night since starting double cerazette. For me, I'm finding with that right now,vas it's the least of my worries. But, like I say, it's not indicative of low E for me. That's flushes. Of which I'm having a few. But nothing major yet.
I believe, at the right dose, the pill should help flatten some of the fluctuations. That's why I'm trying. And your story reassures me I'm doing the right thing. HRT simply tops up, so unless you're only dealing with low E symptoms, I can see why it doesn't help the peri fluctuations.
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I second a double daily dose of desogestrel ie 150mcg.
This is still only the same dose as in combined pills that use this progestin.
It shut me down completely my early 40's and I have high ovarian reserve.
Alternatively if you are under 50 with no risk factors you could just take the combined pill, which is best used in a continuous bleed free regime.
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I think I'd want to know what the "very high" estrogen level you had was?
Testing during peri is extremely unreliable because peri causes surges of estrogen followed by dropping out to nothing. If you happen to test during a surge, you will get a high result of course. That doesn't mean you need less HRT estrogen, because often the best approach is to buffet the drops by taking a decent amount of HRT so that you don't then drop out to nothing. I would suggest you re-test on day 3 of your cycle to get a better sense of where your estrogen is. You can still get a surge on day 3, though. I would not adjust estrogen on the basis of a single result during peri, because it's simply not reliable. If you do 3 or more tests and consistently find you are high or low, then consider adjusting at that point. It is simply premature and will create more problems to do otherwise.
With desogestrel, I was on this for 10 years. I bled slow dark blood for several months when I first started it. This is very common with most POP pills.
I'm not sure why you thought starting desogestrel was a good idea, as it's a synthetic progestin with undesirable side effects and unless you need it for birth control or as a last resort experimental treatment, not really indicated. Increasing utrogestan would be a much better idea. 100mg is a very low utrogestan dose. (I am on 700mg of it at the moment.)
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She's trying to turn her own cycle off joziel - as I am right now. That's what the desogestral is for. Taking HRT alone simply adds to the peaks, but may well prevent the troughs.
I mean, I guess if you can take huge doses of estrogen and utrogestan, you'll mimic what a combined pill would do. But I can't even take 100mg utrogestan. So we're not all able to do so.
I think attempting to shut down a volatile system underneath the hrt is sensible, if the hrt hasn't worked alone.
There is slynd pill. It didn't like me. But that's nothing new. It's also supported by the BMS as the prog part of HRT. So might be worth looking into that. Might be supported easier than double desogestral.
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I get what the idea is. But I've never ever heard it work, and I tried it myself. It's a great theory, isn't it? Take a POP and 'turn off your own cycle' and then just replace it all with stable HRT - and ta da!
Great, except it didn't work for me. Did nothing any better than not being on it. And I've come across many women on social media who've had the same idea and tried it and not found it do anything either.
So I can't rightly recommend it for that purpose. Certainly not unless you've tried everything else and it's a final attempt.
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Right. Ok. That's quite harsh considering you know it is realistically my final attempt and, I've had a lot of support on my zoley pill thread, to go and try double dose cerazette. With others saying it has shut them down at double dose, or slynd.
So, did you try double dose??? Because already double dose has stopped my periods, where single last year did nadda.
I just sometimes think it's kind to be supportive and make suggestions when someone is trying something, clearly out of desperation. Just because it didn't work for you, means nothing for spacey Tracey (cool name 8). Just like high dose E and P is working for you, it doesn't for plenty others.
It's about support for the regime someone is trying, not 'only your way or the highway'. There is a huge difference between being able to recommend something (why would you, if it didn't work for you) and outright demonising Somone elses desperate trials.
#kindness and support.
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This isn’t your thread Crispy. You are not in the same position as the OP and when I say what I said here, it was said to the OP. Everything isn’t about you or directed at you…
You may well be in that place where are you trying everything (except, seemingly thyroid meds, for some reason, despite encouragement and advice) but the OP has most definitely not tried everything and has only been on 100mg of utrogestan…
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Wow. Just wow Joziel.
Yip. You're right. Everyone should absolutely only try the stuff you say. In this case that's 700mg utrogestan (!) and for me thyroid meds because joziel says I should (!).
Alrighty! : ;)
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The 700mcg of utrogestan was just an example of another direction to go in. And between 100 and 700, there are... Well I don't need to spell out all the possible doses that could be trialled there.
I'm not really sure what you mean about 'everyone should absolutely only try the stuff you say'. You are the person who can't tolerate the advice I offered being here, simply because it differs from your own advice. (What I wrote wasn't even addressed to you, it was addressed to the OP and just happened to conflict with what you said.)
If you read the majority of threads on this forum, people do frequently disagree with each other, yet provide a range of advice and allow the OP to sort through it and decide where to go next. Most of the time everyone is okay with that and no one gets personal. We are all entitled to our own opinions and can lay them out, conflict and all, so people can be grown-ups and consider multiple perspectives.
Please allow others the freedom to offer their own thoughts - and please don't make personal remarks like 'wow, just wow' and use sarcasm. If you treat forum members like that, people will simply leave. We are all only trying to help others. No one gets paid for doing it.
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Whatever. I think it's you makes personal remarks calling me out on not taking YOUR 'advice and encouragement' on a thyroid trial on a thread that is about the mini pill. There were other viewpoints on that thread and by your own admission I should be able to 'sort through it and decide where to go next'. So please don't call me out on not following your advice the day after.
But hey. I'm moving on. I rarely get into spats on this forum. But I'm well aware that you do. That says it all.
I just think your harsh words to spacey Tracey are very bullish. Opinions are fine. It's the way you present them.
But thanks. I'm out. If u need the last word, which I expect you do. Crack on.
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You know what. I can see from your other thread that you're having a bad day Joziel after the swap to evorel.
I'm in such a bad place right now that I regularly think I cannot continue. :'(.
We're all on this forum because we have issues. We're not here for fun. And some of us are absolutely desperate and i believe you and I fit that category. X
So, I'll be the big person and apologise for any offence I have caused. I'm sorry. I hope you find improvement soon. As I hope we all do, as noone should have to live like this. :'(
Apologies. Xx
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Hi ladies
Many thanks for your replies…. It shows that we are all trying to muddle through as best we can at a very tricky time and we really do need to be kind and support each other - what works for one person obviously doesn’t work for another.
I’ve had my estrogen levels checked numerous times and have come back between 250 and 1400 ( the 2nd reading was on day 14 of my cycle but I then started my period the next day so should have in theory been low ?? ) hence dropping the gel …. I appreciate that these levels will fluctuate significantly and you can’t rely on them but it definitely shows some big swings.
I am 52 so the combined pill is a no go for me ….. my gps reasoning behind the degestorel was to try and over ride my own cycle as for me it seems to be the fluctuating that are causing me bother……. I just wasn’t expecting the continuous bleeding as I thought it would stop my periods altogether but reading around this doesn’t always seem the case …. That would be far too easy 😆
I will mention a higher dose of utrogestan or doubling the dose of degestorel at my gp appointment……. I must admit I was a bit worried about trying a synthetic prog but will try anything if it works !!!
Thank you again for taking the time to reply - it really does help 😁😁
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Just to add that if you do double the dose of desogestrel, 150mcg is sufficient for endometrial protection without needing to take micronised progesterone on top.
However a single dose of desogestrel cannot be relied on for endometrial protection, hence progesterone is usually recommended as well.
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Crispy, I think you misread the tone of that earlier post. It wasn't meant to be harsh, it was meant to be a bit jokey really. But anyway, we can all have a say and there is no need to try to find a definitive answer because often there isn't one with all this HRT stuff.
Spacey, the thing is... If you have tested your E and found that it has come back between 250 and 1400, you can be pretty sure that the most you are absorbing from HRT is getting you to 250. And that's including what your own body was making at that time. In other words - when we test and we get really high results, we have no idea if those are coming from HRT or from us. But if we test and the result is low (which 250 is) then we cannot be getting a stable and reasonably high amount from the HRT - or it wouldn't have been possible for levels to dip that low. Does that make sense?
During peri we are trying to stabilise the fluctuations and often higher levels work better for that because when we cut out, it doesn't go to nothing (or 250) it goes to (say) 450 or whatever we get the HRT up to.
Which is all to say - especially since your night sweats have got worse - that you likely need more estrogen, not less.