Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Garnet161 on January 24, 2025, 08:44:43 PM
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Hi all,
Has anyone encountered issues with Ovestin/Vagifem not absorbing internally due to the accompanying moisturiser being used? I am using Olive and Bee which is an oil based natural moisturiser a couple of hours before I use Ovestin. It is very comfortable, but I am noticing now some soreness which is similar to what I had way back at the start of the Ovestin use (4 months back). Then I noticed that the Ovestin cream is dropping out in the loo in the mornings - 10 hours after insertion. I am wondering if the oil based moisturiser is inhibiting the Ovestin from absorbing properly.
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Have U tried using ovestin/estriol alone, I insert mine in bed last thing at night and rarely have any discharge either on the sheets or in the loo. It may be that your vaginal walls are lubricated too much so that there is less absorption.
One shouldn't require anything else internally in order to allow appropriate VA treatment to work. If my labia are dry I smear some KY Jelly or 'ovestin' around; others do use moisturisers as well as internal treatments.
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Thanks - yes that is my way of thinking too. I use the moisturiser because I use a dilator at night to help keep things pliable. I was using a water based lube but it ran out.
Might be time to just use the Ovestin for awhile.
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Morning. Let us know how you get on?
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It does make sense that applying what is essentially a barrier cream could cause the estriol to just slide off.
In my opinion, if you didn't need to apply products to your vagina when you were 25, you shouldn't accept having to do so now if you are on effective treatment, so I would start by reviewing that.
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In my opinion, if you didn't need to apply products to your vagina when you were 25, you shouldn't accept having to do so now if you are on effective treatment, so I would start by reviewing that.
If life was that simple, its not and women shouldn't have to review why the need for a moisturiser. The treatments are of a very dry consistency and a moisturiser certainly helps, I wouldn't be without mine its an important part of my daily regime.
Garnet161 I only use a moisturiser on the outside and I would say that an oil based moisturiser used internally would inhibit the absorption of oestrogen, might be worth tweaking your regime a bit.
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Garnet161 I put a little yes wb moisturiser on my bits externally first and then I fill the cream up to the red line and before inserting I add a little yes wb moisturiser again around the sides/along the applicator for lubrication and easy insertion and therefore some goes up internally and I find this works for me
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Garnet161 I only use a moisturiser on the outside and I would say that an oil based moisturiser used internally would inhibit the absorption of oestrogen, might be worth tweaking your regime a bit.
Can I ask what moisturiser you use Ayesha? I've tried loads over the years but never found one that doesn't irritate after a while. I sometimes use YES WB 5ml applicators but these are expensive, £9.60 for 6 and the tube which is cheaper and supposed to be the same irritates. I use Estriol externally at night but would benefit a moisturiser during the day. Still on Vagifem daily too.
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I use YesVM but I am not as sensitive down there as I know you are, Dierdre, and I can tolerate the moisturisers well.
They seem now to be getting more expensive and I shop around on Amazon searching for a good deal but I might think about looking at other moisturisers soon.
Its interesting that since Sylk came back on the market its no longer available on Amazon, I wonder why, that's also a good moisturiser but going for natural ingredients means going expensive.
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Beware the word 'natural' - they are likely to be synthesised ...........
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Garnet161 - could you not use the Ovestin/Estriol alongside the dilator instead of a moisturiser? Ovestin contains moisturising ingredients so should help on that score.
You can then apply your moisturiser afterwards if you feel the need.
:)
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In my opinion, if you didn't need to apply products to your vagina when you were 25, you shouldn't accept having to do so now if you are on effective treatment, so I would start by reviewing that.
Do you not use any moisturiser at all then? Anywhere on your body?
What do you do on a windy day when you go outside and your face gets dry and your lips get chapped?
Genuinely curious.
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Garnet161 - I use estriol 0.01% cream now instead of Ovestin/estriol 0.1%, which burned me. You get the same amount of oestriol per dose but in a bigger quantity of cream. The cream base is arachis (peanut) oil and glycerin, which are very moisturising in themselves and wonder if you'd find that more comfortable to use. I certainly feel more moisturised down there now and no burning.
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I use YesVM but I am not as sensitive down there as I know you are, Dierdre, and I can tolerate the moisturisers well.
They seem now to be getting more expensive and I shop around on Amazon searching for a good deal but I might think about looking at other moisturisers soon.
Its interesting that since Sylk came back on the market its no longer available on Amazon, I wonder why, that's also a good moisturiser but going for natural ingredients means going expensive.
I've tried the YES VM but no luck, think I'll try the WB again but in the tube as you get more than the 5ml applicators, I buy from Amazon too as it's cheaper. I think there's more preservative in the tube as it's used repeatedly when opened but the 5ml applicators are only used once.
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I've never used Yes with applicators but it makes it all very expensive from what I've seen.
Costly being a woman of a certain age ???
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Thanks everyone.
I was starting to get what felt like dryness and a bit of itching right on the vaginal opening which is exasperated by sitting down. Today I put some Ovestin on the end of my finger and smeared it around - the itching stopped immediately and was relieved for 10 hours or so.
Honestly, every day is an adventure. I just never know when there’s going to be a new or different symptom.
On the upside, the Ovestin is not dropping out. And yes, the itching was happening with the moisturiser but it only started 4 days ago - I’d been using the moisturiser for a month.
Who knows…
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Hi Garnet
I use the 1mg/g cream and a lot more comes out in the morning and up to mid afternoon than goes in.
I just tell myself it’s working as it should
Flutterby x
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It's The Change - does what it says on the tin ;-).
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Dierdre, in case it helps, I do seem to keep mentioning it everywhere, so sorry everyone, I cannot use any type of moisturiser or lubricant without it burning. I use coconut oil. I've spent a small fortune on so called natural ones and they all burned. I buy a big tub, keep it in the fridge (obviously it's solid) and decant into little pots to keep in the loo, my pocket, handbag etc.
Again, sorry to keep saying it but you never know who reads it for the first time and I just hope to help someone.
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Is it a particular type of coconut oil you buy or just any brand?
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It doesn't matter how often we mention what works for us across the Forum, it's important for people to read and learn that these issues can be treated.
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I just pick any brand that's organic. You can buy it without scent, which is nice if fry eggs with it, but I like to smell coconutty. That's a huge improvement these days!!
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I have never bought it but will definitely buy some, seems extremely versatile.
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Dierdre, in case it helps, I do seem to keep mentioning it everywhere, so sorry everyone, I cannot use any type of moisturiser or lubricant without it burning. I use coconut oil. I've spent a small fortune on so called natural ones and they all burned. I buy a big tub, keep it in the fridge (obviously it's solid) and decant into little pots to keep in the loo, my pocket, handbag etc.
Again, sorry to keep saying it but you never know who reads it for the first time and I just hope to help someone.
I tried coconut oil a few years ago but it irritated and made me sore. Thanks for sharing though, I've tried so many different ones over the years. Sometimes I'm ok with something for a few days and think great finally found one that suits then it's as if my body just rejects it. Most creams etc have glycerin in them and I think it might be that I react to. Its in Estriol cream too which is why I have to apply Bepanthen afterwards or it stings. I can tolerate Bepanthen baby ointment during the night but can't walk about all day with it on as it chafes, think its because it's quite thick and sticky.
Is there any moisturisers that don't contain glycerin?
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It's so frustrating isn't it, Dierdre? A GP told me not to use coconut oil because if yhe protein in it would cause thrush! She suggested various moisturisers from the chemist, all containing liquid parafin . The gynae told me to wash with Dermol 500 which I questioned because it's also got liquid parafin in, which is drying. She did her usual eye roll and said its anti- microbial so would very very helpful. So I've used that since but when I buy a bottle, I dilute it 50/50 with water. But I'm now thinking I probably need to look for something else with natural ingredients but what, I don't know. What do you wash with?
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Mainly just water. Sometimes wash with Cetraben emollient but that has glycerin and parafin too so I make sure I rinse well with warm water. I use Sanex zero shower gel for sensitive skin, that's been ok so far but try not to get any down there.
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Thanks Diedre. I find water alone too drying, even using coconut oil after to moisturise. I had no idea, obviously, when I was younger that there was anything like GSM and so looked forward to menopause because I had really painful endometriosis. How ignorant I was to all this. I think I've worked out my recent flare up was due to using a new kind of panty liner. I was bleeding for over a month due to upping estrogel and because I heed something absorbant but natural, I tried bamboo liners. After a few hours it felt like every bit of moisture had literally been sucked out and I was in terrible pain internally. I've tried giving my vagina a good talking to lately, called her all sorts of names, but she just doesn't listen!!
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;D think i should try that.
I find the cheapest unscented panty liners are best for me. ASDA's own brand and Carefree. I use them more for the comfy pad to cushion and protect from my pants than absorbency against leakage.
The water where I live is very hard and I think that don't help. I've noticed softer water in other places has been kinder. I suppose how much chemical in there makes a difference too, I rarely drink tap water as it tastes awful here, like chlorine.
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Dierdre, have you tried washable pads? I got some on Amazon and obviously initially they are a few quid, but worth it long term. If it's cushioning you need, they are fab. I use Yoni liners because most big brands use bleach and other chemicals in the manufacturing process which bother my bits! But the washable ones do have a bit if bulk which is comfy. I used them when I still had periods for a while and whilst the top layer is really soft, I couldn't bear the fact that I felt wet all the time I suppose because they lack the layer in conventional ones that locks the moisture in. While I'm writing this I'm wondering if I might take a look and see if they've improved them nowadays, in that regard.
Just a thought for you.
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Didn't know there was washable pads. I'll look into that, thanks.
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I've never used Yes with applicators but it makes it all very expensive from what I've seen.
Costly being a woman of a certain age ???
I haven't been on here for ages, but just popped on to look something else up.. for those of you mentioning the cost of using Yes VM.... you can get it prescribed on the NHS! I get the applicators on prescription. Initially they only wanted to prescribe the larger tube, but I pushed for the applicators and now it is on my repeat. It might be worth asking your GP to prescribe. It wont be covered on the specific HRT prepayment certificate, but I have a normal annual prescription pre payment so it is covered on that. I dont know if this is helpful, but these are the codes the GP needs on the ordering system
"YES VM vaginal moisturiser pre-filled applicators (The Yes Yes Company Ltd) - PIP CODE for GP: 402-3420. YES VM vaginal moisturiser tube (The Yes Yes Company Ltd) - PIP CODE for GP: 402-3412. YES WB water based vaginal lubricant tube (The Yes Yes Company Ltd) - GP: 345-5789. YES WB water-based vaginal lubricant pre-filled applicator (The Yes Yes Company Ltd) - PIP CODE for GP:345-5805."
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YesVM is cheap enough as long as you don't need the applicators which makes it more expensive. I would hate to have to rely on a GP for a moisturiser along with my Vagifem and Estriol cream. I hate having to justify the dose I need to control my GSM symptoms and I am always waiting for the next confrontation, therefore I think I will definitely not be getting any moisturiser on prescription, best that I keep well out of their radar.
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I was refused YES WB applicators on presciption by my surgery and told I can buy OTC.. I don't pay for my prescriptions so extra cost.
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Whoever issues repeats at the surgery and the pharmacist drive me mad. I just picked up my script and the GP updated my dose of Ovestin to x2 daily as per meno specialist and GP instructions. The pharmacist then wanted to speak to me saying it shouldn't be used twice a day, particularly as my estradiol are daily too. Grrrr. I explained, again, that all my HRT is at a dose prescribed by a meno specialist at the local hospital and whilst I appreciate she is just checking things, the dose is correct. Apparently she's going to speak to my GP because she isn't happy.
So I agree, any extras we can keep under the radar is sensible. (Like me buying Gina for when I need to up my dose to 2 per day during flare-ups).
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I wish they wouldn't associate topical oestrogen with systemic treatment, this is what's causing the problems, they can't separate the two.
Systemic will always be treated as the demon drug that must be taken with the greatest caution, women are in a no win situation, every day is a fight day!