Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: CrispyChick on October 31, 2024, 04:49:53 PM
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Who has done this using AD instead of hormones (HRT)?
I'd love to hear from you. What, apart from the obvious mood and anxiety, have they helped?
Thanks x
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I think in hindsight that because I was already on antidepressant medication, when I went into peri my symptoms were less. I had intense nausea and knew where every waste bin/bucket was when shopping :o due to the sudden attacks of 'going to be ill' ....... NAPS advised that I eat every 3 hours to ease those symptoms.
When you had regular periods did you have cyclical depression: I did, I would sob for hours the night B4 a bleed even if a period wasn't due. It would be there the next monring!
have to run, T's ready ::)
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Hi!
Well, I use only ad mirtazapine 30 mg. After trying 3 types of hrt, I decided to go ad rute.
I ve been on ad for 4 months now and it helps with hot flushes - are gone!!!- sleep is nornal again, I even sleep through the night, before ad I would wake every night to pee.
Anxiety and depression - gone!
I still have some bad days but not nearly bad as before.
I am 49 and peri, perods every 22 days. My hormons are near zero: estrogen 16, progesterone 0,3, fsh 75.
Some researches suggest SNRI ads help with peri/menopause symptoms.
I hope this will last and I will cross the bridge to menopause without hormones.
Hope this info helps.
Wish you all the best on your way!
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Hi!
Well, I use only ad mirtazapine 30 mg. After trying 3 types of hrt, I decided to go ad rute.
I ve been on ad for 4 months now and it helps with hot flushes - are gone!!!- sleep is nornal again, I even sleep through the night, before ad I would wake every night to pee.
Anxiety and depression - gone!
I still have some bad days but not nearly bad as before.
I am 49 and peri, perods every 22 days. My hormons are near zero: estrogen 16, progesterone 0,3, fsh 75.
Some researches suggest SNRI ads help with peri/menopause symptoms.
I hope this will last and I will cross the bridge to menopause without hormones.
Hope this info helps.
Wish you all the best on your way!
Does mirtazapine make you groggy in the morning?
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Well done Emma49 and :thankyou:. Long may your recovery continue :tulips2:
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Nas, I used Mirtazapine for roughly a year a while back. When I first started, yes it did make me groggy in the morning but it's just an initial start up effect which is only temporary. The best thing about Mirtazapine though is it's amazing for sleep and there aren't the horrid initial start up side effects you often get with ADs. Apart from the drowsiness as already mentioned. The only downside is it can make some put on weight but for me I just needed to sleep and feel normal again so I didn't care if I put weight on. And I would take that any day over anxiety and insomnia. X
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Hi Nas!
Yes, first 3-4 weks it made me groggy now I am fine.
Still have some bad days, but in general I feel much better....
I hope it stays this way!
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CLKD!
Thank you!!! :) :) :)
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Thanks Emmia and Gnatty :)
Okay, well it seems that mirtazapine is one option for sleep. I will ask my oncologist about it next time we speak.
I’m glad it’s helped you both because anxiety and insomnia are the pits.
What about constipation? My cancer meds can make me prone to this if I don’t watch my fluid intake and diet.
Crispy what do you think? Is mirtazapine an option for you do you think? X
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Thanks ladies.
I'm pondering this. I was just thinking of you Nas - do you currently take an AD?
And, although basic, have you tried physillian husk for the constipation? Or artichoke?
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Thanks Emmia and Gnatty :)
Okay, well it seems that mirtazapine is one option for sleep. I will ask my oncologist about it next time we speak.
I’m glad it’s helped you both because anxiety and insomnia are the pits.
What about constipation? My cancer meds can make me prone to this if I don’t watch my fluid intake and diet.
Crispy what do you think? Is mirtazapine an option for you do you think? X
Nas have you tried magnesium citrate in the evening for constipation? It's the form of magnesium they use for loose stools x
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Hi Crispy,
Mirtazapine could work for us and as Gnatty mentioned, no nasty start up effects. I may give it a go!
Just looking at physillan husk now 😊
How are you doing today? X
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Thanks Emmia and Gnatty :)
Okay, well it seems that mirtazapine is one option for sleep. I will ask my oncologist about it next time we speak.
I’m glad it’s helped you both because anxiety and insomnia are the pits.
What about constipation? My cancer meds can make me prone to this if I don’t watch my fluid intake and diet.
Crispy what do you think? Is mirtazapine an option for you do you think? X
Nas have you tried magnesium citrate in the evening for constipation? It's the form of magnesium they use for loose stools x
Penguin, I have a tub of the magnesium citrate from H&B. So far, I’m okay if eat a ton of fruit and 2 kiwi a day! Sometimes I don’t feel like a ton of fruit and 2 kiwi a day though! 😆
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Nas. I would think physillian husk would do the same as the kiwis. As long as you drink a ton of water. 👍
Thanks for asking how I am, I'm in hell. ☹️ If this hormonal trial ends - and it'll be soon if it does - then I'm defo going for AD only.
I'm already on 5mg escitalopram. Have been for years. It does nadda. But I've been up as far as 15mg many years ago. It will work for me on mood and anxiety. But the start up is hell.
That said, I'm oversensitive to everything. I'll stick with escit as I can't face the tapering off and starting an unknown.
I do think it's worth you looking at the AD route. If you don't already.
That's what this post is about. I know there are woman have success on AD only. Hopefully more will be along shortly. Xx
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Yes Crispy, more ladies will be along soon I’m sure to share experiences. Anti D’s do have a place in the hormonal hell tool box, so hopefully at some point, you will find something you can tolerate. Mirtazapine does seem to be a good starting point though x
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Re constipation, lactulose is a good option to keep in hand and works a treat. Much better than general laxatives that can give gripes. Orange juice after breakfast although not great health-wise is good for getting things moving. And the obvious, prunes, avocado,etc.
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I found 2 Californian dates mid-afternoon would get things moving the next morning :o until I found a creepy crawly in the box :o :o :-X. DH however continues to eat them ;D
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Who has done this using AD instead of hormones (HRT)?
I'd love to hear from you. What, apart from the obvious mood and anxiety, have they helped?
Thanks x
Hi CrispyChick,
I’m sorry you’re having such a challenging time. It can feel relentless.
If this helps at all, after my hormones tanked even further post hysterectomy (I was already just post meno so they weren’t in plentiful supply anyway) I hit a new level of pre-existing post meno symptoms ramping up, no sleep, sweating for hours on end at night, anxiety manifesting as physical symptoms mainly and a flatness which felt very particular to having no hormones plus the usual things.
I limped along and I hadn’t really considered taking an AD as although I believed they have their place, I didn’t think it was the right path for me. I was limited in what I could do in terms of HRT as I had a hysterectomy due to cancer.
In the end I knew I had to try something for sleep and to get around the supermarket without feeling I was going to pass out feeling dizzy and weird if nothing else, as I wouldn’t be able to function properly without basics in place. I started on a low dose of AD and increased only a little as it started to help considerably. Anxiety, sleep, sweating - reduced a huge amount from all night to maybe one short period of sweating a night and a lot of the other meno symptoms became more in the background.
It’s not perfect but also finding my way with HRT wasn’t perfect or any of the additional things I tried through my 40's. It’s hard to feel like your sense of self is going through the wringer or you get to a place where you hardly recognise yourself so yes I think it helped me enormously and its about building a toolkit that works for the individual and pushing to try any avenue that might help. x
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:thankyou: Summer-sky
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Excellent response from the lovely Summer-sky! :)
Crispy, there has to be hope, there simply has to. We must try all available avenues and then pause for reflection.
Anti depressant’s certainly do have a place somewhere in the tool box. It’s a case of finding that right tool and ensuring we use it in the correct way, so that it works to our benefit.
I’ve even been reading the old thread on progesterone and oestrogen creams online. I would like to try them, but don’t know if I dare!
Xx
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Thank you sunmer-sky.
I'm.at my wits end with all these hormonal trials. And I'm about to cut my losses and just go the AD route.
I'm glad it's helping many of your symptoms. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I know it can't control all my physical upheaval, which is very much the changes/fluctuations. But if I could at least feel less anxiety and mood issues and, on top of that, stop caring about it so much, this can only be a good thing for me.
Can I just ask. You mention dizziness. Was this anxiety related? Or just simply a physical symptom? I ask because it's something that badly plagues me.
Thanks you. Xx
I agree Nas. We will keep fighting. :-*
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Morning CrispyChick - have U had the dizziness looked into? When does it affect you for example?
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Yes. I've had everything looked into time after time again. >:(
The dizziness comes with hormonal changes. Of which there are navy for me in peri.
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Is it postural? I have a nerve in the back of my neck that occasionally makes me go "OH!" when I move :o then settles immediately. Could your issue be aging related from the head/cervical spine area?
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No. It's all linked to changing hormones.
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:-\ :'(
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Hi CrispyChick
I was on citalopram 20mg for years then came off them to see if HRT would work for me as I entered menopause. I tried different doses of HRT but it seems I am highly sensitive to oestrogen unfortunately so i've given up and went back onto the antidepressants. My worst menopause symptom was anxiety and the citalopram nips that in the bud and I no longer have hot flushes although I do feel hot sometimes it doesn't develop into a flush and insomnia is so much better. I would have liked HRT to sort me out but it was not to be. I have now developed Vaginal Atrophy however and I'm experimenting with localised HRT to sort that but I'm even sensitive to that small dose so that is an ongoing trial of different products in the hope I can tolerate one of them !
I didn't have any start up problems with the AD just a slight increase in anxiety for a few days - I started on 10mg for 3 weeks then increased to 20mg which is where I hope to stay.
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Thank you milliemoo. That sounds like another positive for the AD. Especially for those that cannot tolerate hormonal treatment.
Sorry it didn't work for you. Big I'm glad you recognise the citalopram does.
I'm so envious though. I'll have an absolute nightmare getting on my escitalopram. So 20mg citalopram is equivalent to 10mg escitalopram I think (clkd - that right?). I've been on 5mg years, but it does nothing. So my aim will be 10mg when I brave doing it. .
Thanks did the reply. Seems there are more ladies on AD when HRT fails than maybe we think there are. 8)
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Milliemoo - what does estrogen do to you?
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Hi Crispy Chick it basically made my anxiety worse and gave me heart palpitations - stop the HRT all goes back to normal. Caffeine was doing that to me also so had to cut that out too
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So, excuse my daftness, big you stopped citalopram to try HRT. Could u try again once settled back in citalopram??? Might work together. 8)
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Tried that Crispy Chick same result but to be honest now that my anxiety is under control I’m not that bothered - just now trying to get the Atrophy under control but I have to go easy with the dose of that too
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Ah, interesting.
So the AD couldn't stop the HRT anxiety and palpitations! That's really interesting, because I'm wondering if ADs can help with my peri aggitation. Which is very much brought on by hormonal fluctuations.
I hope you can find treatment for the VA. Fingers crossed xx
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There are anti-depressant medications which have been found to ease flushes. Sorry, can't remember which. Meno-brain here.
Caffeine is a stimulant. Alcohol is both a stimulant and a depressive.
Sorry CrispyChick - that's not in my knowledge, mayB check on-line or with a pharmacist? I don't C my pharmacist friend until March.
With regards vaginal atrophy: some find treatments sting initially when inserted due to the vaginal walls being thin. Gentle insertion plus a good lubricant: I use KY Jelly : should ease that effect until the vagina is supple and plumped up to continue with treatment. estriol/ovestin is the other that is of use.
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Thanks clkd. In my current state of mind, escitalopram will cure everything. ;D
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U keep that in mind then ;D. Certainly without my ADs since 1989-ish I wouldn't be here. I think in hindsight that's why I didn't have so many peri symptoms other than sudden, intense nausea :o :'( = panic attacks.
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Thank you sunmer-sky.
I'm.at my wits end with all these hormonal trials. And I'm about to cut my losses and just go the AD route.
I'm glad it's helping many of your symptoms. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I know it can't control all my physical upheaval, which is very much the changes/fluctuations. But if I could at least feel less anxiety and mood issues and, on top of that, stop caring about it so much, this can only be a good thing for me.
Can I just ask. You mention dizziness. Was this anxiety related? Or just simply a physical symptom? I ask because it's something that badly plagues me.
Thanks you. Xx
I agree Nas. We will keep fighting. :-*
Hi Crispy,
For me this dizziness did feel hormonal & also looking back one of my main symptoms in peri.
I agree with CLKD that it can come from the neck - this I get from an old neck injury too but for me at least, it was a different kind of sensation. I was on HRT and it did help with that but it took an age to find the right level and I could never sustain being on even a moderate 50 Everol patch without other symptoms going on - of course it might have all settled if I had gone on even longer on it but it then became about 'pick your battles in symptom-land' and although the dizziness was unpleasant, other symptoms felt more important to sort out so I experimented with lower doses of HRT. The low dose AD has helped with the dizziness which would then lead to the conclusion its not all hormonal but possibly at that time my thought is that the dizziness was also coinciding with a body-stress related fight or flight response post hysterectomy. x
Nas - hope you are doing ok-ish, I wish it was so much easier to find solutions. x
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Horrific Summer-sky, just horrific :'(
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Group :hug:
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Do you think the AD route might help a bit Nas???
I'd be on them like a shot if they didn't give me awful start up side affects.
So, Sumner sky - you've had a hysterectomy, but don't take any hrt now or you take low dose now? And low dose AD? That right? X
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I’m too scared to take them Crispy. I need to work and can’t be doing with the side effects either. I’m already battling enough :'( Plus don’t know which one. Maybe I’ll submit a consult to GP tomorrow. This can’t go on.
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Yes. Defo discuss if with GP first.
I have drops so I can titrate up slowly. A lot of people are fine though. I'm sure your GP can help find you one that suits.
Definitely worth investigating. Xx
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Crispy, I'm just on a very low dose AD now post hysterectomy. I was on HRT before the op. Long day, it was clear in my brain when writing but can see it didn't translate well onto the page!
Nas, maybe chat to the GP about it as a possibility? You've got so much spirit and determination that if its the best route for you then you'll get yourself through the initial side effects if you even have any. Not saying it's the right route just know there are always other avenues to try if needed x
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Which one are you on Summer? Is it sertraline? X
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I agree with summer, Nas.
Chat this through with your GP. It's clear you need something to help, it may be they think AD could help. And would be best placed to work out which ones.
I'm a very very sensitive person to all meds. So my experience, so t be your experience. But, ive been on decent dose AD before and the end result was fab. It's something I'm most definitely going to do.
But right now, in in the thick of a horrific chemical menopause trial and now added hrt. So ill either start after I settle on this, or, unfortunately more likely, when I bomb off it all...
My GP said the AD will 'help me cope' and I think that's absolutely what they can do for me. They can't stop the hormonal turmoil. But if they give my brain a break...💁
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The 1st 3 ADs that I tried in the 1980s made me feel very very sick. After that, no problems. Let us know how you get on.
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I think the old school ones are particularly bad clkd. I was given one in my 20s for my ibs. I took one and went to work...never been so spaced out in my life. 🤣 Never took another.
The modern ssri / snri have a much lower side affect profile. I still struggle. But that's just me.
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I struggle until I find something that helps in the 'what if' category! Which AD did your GP suggest?
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I reccomend pure pear juice every morning..if not orange..i work with oldies and i find natural is a soft fix ..
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......... :-\
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Crispy, sorry you are suffering :( When I went through menopause it was back in the day when the initial scare stories re Hrt hit the media with a lot of misinformation. I had a lot of problems with the prog side of things and feel I gave up too soon due to a very ill informed GP.
I didn't give ADs a good trial until my late fifities and found that having tried and failed with the SSRIs that Mirtazapine worked very well for me. I wish I had tried it sooner. I subsequently came off it after a while, but am now considering Amitriptyline for another issue (sciatica) plus the sleep issue which never really went away except when I was on Mirtazapine.
I think ADs are definitely worth a shot for anyone who cannot use Hrt, after all you can always come off them after a decent trial time if they don't suit, nothing lost.
Regarding constipation which some members mentioned: I've found having failed on other natural remedies that Milled Flax Seeds work brilliantly for me! The ordinary unmilled ones did nothing for me by the way. You can use them in smoothies, cereal, yogurt etc. I put a heaped dessert spoon full on my Weetabix each morning. I hope I'm not breaking any rules when I say that I use Tesco's own brand, I think they cost £1.60 or thereabouts.
Good luck everyone!
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aaaa... Bindi ? Is that what you were referring to?
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How's it going Crispy?
I have spoken to my GP today and he has prescribed mirtazapine 15mg.
Got to check in with him in 3 weeks to see how it's going, but I will take anything for a decent sleep and reduced anxiety right now!
I feel awful, sick and dizzy today. :-\
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Nas, take one tonight, not too late. Don't be worried about waking up a bit fuzzy headed. It will only last a week or two. Do you have to work tomorrow? Maybe be prepared to have a nice fresh shower to get you going in the morning if you need it. Good luck. And tell us how you get on. X
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Thanks Gnatty,
They haven’t been dispensed yet, so hopefully by the weekend, they will be ready and I can take one.
I feel so useless right now. A colleague 18 months younger than me, has boundless energy, can multi task and drive here there and everywhere. Then there’s me; dragging myself from A to B each day!
I shower each morning anyway, just hoping a potentially fuzzy head doesn’t linger, as I need to be at work for 8.30am daily. 🤞 x
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Criky I see one 8.30 a day and it ain't that one ;D
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Which one are you on Summer? Is it sertraline? X
Hi Nas,
Yes that's the one I take. I literally started on a crumb! I think the therapeutic dose if I'm correct is 50mg but as I was so concerned re the side effects, I went for 25mg prescription and even cut that up to 6mg approx for two weeks and then went to 12mg for several weeks and then to 25mg. I'm sensitive to medication, antibiotics the lot, so I took very very low doses and built it up. I couldn't take it in the morning as I start work at 8.30am too and knew I would have to eat a lot first before taking it to minimise any nausea side effects, so I take it later in the day. Maybe start low and go slow if you are concerned about side effects. x
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I'm pleased Nas. It might just give you the lift you need.
I agree with starting slow. Then see how you tolerate act side affects. Start on Fri night if you can.
Any reason why the doc gave you that particular AD???
Thanks for asking after me. I'm not doing good right now. :(. Finding it incredibly hard to believe that everything I experience with hormones is 'normal'. But, there you go. They cant seem to tell me otherwise.
Good luck with this. I'll be starting soon. Xx
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15mg was plenty for me and I started on it straight away. x
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Did you pick up the prescription Nas?
When are you starting?? Hoping it goes really well for you, you deserve to catch a break. Xx
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Hi Nas
hope the mirtazapines work for you. Did you come off amitrypline x
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Not yet Crispy. After another 4am wake up, I’m knackered from the working week. Tomorrow I will collect it and hope to god it does something positive. Otherwise I’m going to get the sack I reckon. I’m just not retaining any information of the most basic type; very distressing.
How are you today? Any respite? X
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Hi disco,
I’ve still been taking the amitriptyline, not that it does much! Hoping mirtazapine will help with sleep.
How are you getting on? I can see you have had bleeding issues again? What a shame. What’s your plan going forward? X
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hiya Nas
Amitrypline doesnt always work for everyone. Ive heard mirtazapines effective. I'll keep everything crossed it works for you.
Yes I had another heavy bleed, had a hysteroscopy no GA but it was actually ok.
Im thinking of coming off the hrt as it hasnt really been great to be honest and I cant keep bleeding like this.
Keep in touch and let me know how you get on xx
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Ok. I hear you Nas.
Hoping everything goes smoothly with it and it gives you some respite.
Not good here. But chemical menopause was never going to be an easy ride. I'm only 2/3 weeks off deciding whether to continue or jump ship.
Keep us updated. If nothing else, it might knock you out. ;D
I hear you on work. Well, here I am off work just now. Because I was very much teetering on the edge.
If you think the AD might work, once stated, but get side affects, could you possibly take some sick leave to get through it? X
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Hi Nas and Crispy,
How are you both getting on? Nas, did you decide on whether to take the Mirtazapine or hold off? I hope you are finding some routes to help with some of the meno symptoms a bit? x
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Hi Summer-sky,
My mirtazapine is still in my
drawer! I’ve bought novomins magnesium gummies and melatonin from Biovea. Will try my mirtazapine at the weekend.
Something big has happened
( not meno related) but I may need more than mirtazapine! 😱😳
Crispy, how are you getting on ? XXX
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Hope you're ok Nas?????
'something big has happened' sounds ominous.
So you're defo trying the mirtazapine this weekend??? So hopeful that it'll help you in the long run.
I'm still plodding along trying to let the HRT stabilise on chem meno. I'm only day 11 of a full patch. Feeling very unwell.
My consultant said 2/3 weeks to stabilise. Then 4-6 weeks before you'd consider any changes. She also told me not to try the AD whilst on this trial, of I won't know what's what. To which I agree.
But it's there, ready, should I bomb off it all.
Good luck. X
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Hi Nas,
Hopefully the gummies and melatonin will help a bit but sorry to hear about the something big - it sounds like another challenging thing Nas on your already challenging road. xx :foryou:
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Unbelievable, I can’t take mirtazapine as it interacts with my cancer drug!! ☹️
Back to square one again .. sigh…
Crispy, I am so so hoping that you can get on an even keel. You deserve a break for sure! Are you still off work?
How does chemical menopause work?
Xxx
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Oh no! Nas. That's so frustrating.
Ok. There are plenty more AD to try. I use escitalopram, which is an ssri. There are also srni ones. Not sure of the difference. I have drops so when I increase, I can do it slowly. Although going too slow will prolong any aging I suspect.
So dont give up. Find an alternative to try. You've got to keep trying. Xx
Yes. Still off work. Im very ill. At my worst.
Chem meno literally shuts down your ovaries so in a matter of weeks you plummet to zero. I've gig terrible joint pain and flushes from it. But the HRT is so far not helping, and stirring up all my reactive symptoms. Horrible.
But, I'm going to keep going. I've come this far. I need to know if if can help my original symptoms or not. Whether they are genuinely my body's reaction to fluctuations. Or not.
If it doesn't help them. I'll be bombing off and going straight on AD. And never touching a hormone again!
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Nas
Did you get anywhere looking into appropriate anti depressants? I found this today and, assuming tamoxifen might be what you're on? It suggests citalopram or escitalopram are ok.
It's escitalopram I use.
https://gpnotebook.com/en-GB/pages/gynaecology/ssri-ssris-in-the-menopause (https://gpnotebook.com/en-GB/pages/gynaecology/ssri-ssris-in-the-menopause)
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Hi Crispy,
I’m on letrozole, but did take tamoxifen for my primary cancer.
I’m hanging fire with the anti depressants, mainly because i work in a school with children who have additional needs. I just can’t afford to feel off or ride out side effects. If I had a WFH job, I may be more inclined to give them a go, but as things stand, I can’t at the moment.
How are you getting on? X
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How did U get on with tamoxifen Nas ?
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Not bad CLKD. Obviously an oestrogen blocker, so menopause symptoms hit hard. I took for 4 years, then stopped.
It’s even offered as treatment for secondary cancer these days.
I know it’s poison to some and a godsend to others.
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Almost killed me !
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Yes, unfortunately some drugs are brutal. But sadly for many women, it’s take the poison or die from cancer. It’s as black and white as that ( and it shouldn’t be).
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I was prescribed it on 'an incase' basis and as I hadn't felt physically ill throughout treatment I didn't continue with it. Is there a proven link that it actually stops cancer recurring?
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Well I’m living proof that tamoxifen didn’t work. Mine still returned, despite chemo and tamoxifen. It’s just the luck of the draw I think.
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Not enough research then? Is any1 doing a survey on your medical history, could be a Thesis there 4 some1!
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This is the thing CLKD, not enough research IS conducted. Makes me wonder where the medics get their information from?
Me; mastectomy, chemo, tamoxifen. Now another hormone inhibitor and cancer drug. I could well be offered tamoxifen again, if letrozole stopped working! Madness eh? ::)
Sorry to hijack your thread Crispy xxxx
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Sorry Crispy .......... meandered a bit :-\
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CrispyChick - how long do U intend to stay in chemical menopause?
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Hi CrispyChick
I really empathise with you. I have generalised anxiety disorder however I had to come off hrt as I kept bleeding so my anxiety is hellish at the moment and I dont fancy the side effects of anti depressants.
I hope your ok xxx
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I am on anti anxiety (paroxetine).
Helped:
- hot flushes
- tension aches in neck (and a feeling of lump in the throat)
- anxiety and panic attacks
- stomach flare ups (sort of like IBS attacks)
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Tnx. Wania - what ever works!
discogirl - can't remember what you have already tried, if anything. Once I found an AD which helped plus a go-to anti-anxiety tablet, I'm much better. But it was hard work :'( :-\
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Hi clkd
gp gave me citalopram but ive been too scared to use them. plus i understand that a common side effect of ssris is disturbed sleep which i want to avoid x
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Where did U read that discogirl? The leaflet in the box is best thrown into the bin ;-) because manufacturers seem to list every possibility that might happen!
Not a problem for me. I sleep like a log and never want to wake up in the morning ::) apart from very busy dreams. Using it as an AD though without which I wouldn't B here.
Which dose discogirl?
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Hi clkd
gp gave me citalopram but ive been too scared to use them. plus i understand that a common side effect of ssris is disturbed sleep which i want to avoid x
I have tried a few ssri meds, including citalopram which i took for 18 months, always took them in the morning, and never had an issue with sleep. I take my fluoxetine at 630am with a banana and a coffee and I'm pretty much always asleep before 10pm. Fluoxetine is one of the more stimulating ones too. I do take 2mg melatonin at night most nights *since the fluoxetine, i didn't take it all with citalopram*, but I've been away on hols a few times recently and not taken melatonin (as I've had a drink) and been fine. Side effects don't effects everyone and there are always work arounds. The benefits far outweigh the risks in my experience, and it has also dealt with my hot flashes as well as my extreme anxiety and early waking.
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Thanks all
I'm finding this all very interesting. So nice to hear some woman do find support through AD alone. Especially for things like hot flushes and IBS.
I've developed terrible reactive stomach issues to hormonal changes. I'm scared the AD will kick it off too though.
Discogirl I used escit before and if never upset my sleep. In fact I've stayed on 5mg for years. Doesn't seem to help with anything but it certainly doesn't disturb my sleep.
There are unfortunately start up side affects. I'm petrified of them. But needs must. My advice is start low. Do gvgo in with full dose.
Penguin when you moved to fluxetine did you start at full.dose or go up slowly?
P s penguin 6.30am is an early wakening. ::)
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Where did U read that discogirl? The leaflet in the box is best thrown into the bin ;-) because manufacturers seem to list every possibility that might happen!
Not a problem for me. I sleep like a log and never want to wake up in the morning ::) apart from very busy dreams. Using it as an AD though without which I wouldn't B here.
Which dose discogirl?
Hi clkd
GP gave me 10mg x
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Thanks all
I'm finding this all very interesting. So nice to hear some woman do find support through AD alone. Especially for things like hot flushes and IBS.
I've developed terrible reactive stomach issues to hormonal changes. I'm scared the AD will kick it off too though.
Discogirl I used escit before and if never upset my sleep. In fact I've stayed on 5mg for years. Doesn't seem to help with anything but it certainly doesn't disturb my sleep.
There are unfortunately start up side affects. I'm petrified of them. But needs must. My advice is start low. Do gvgo in with full dose.
Penguin when you moved to fluxetine did you start at full.dose or go up slowly?
P s penguin 6.30am is an early wakening. ::)
Lol not when you have a dog, primary school aged children and one with adhd 🤣🙈. I at least get a solid 8 hours now but bear in mind I go to bed super early coz I can't stay awake 😴
So the fluoxetine. I was on 10mg cit, so I tapered from that, started on 10mg fluoxetine for 2 weeks then went up to 20mg and after a further 6 weeks went up to 40mg. I can't emphasise strongly enough how having a toolkit (including diazepam and a beta blocker) enabled me to pretty much sail through any start up effects. The beta blocker for the physical anxiety/ jitters and the diazepam for if I started spiralling with ocd. I have gone two months now not needing to dip into toolkit. I think GPs are remiss in not supporting patients through the start up of drugs like anti depressant. I was told at the start by my psychiatrist that I needed to get up to 40mg for the ocd looping thoughts and he was right, it is different for regular anxiety or depression. I was never able to get to a high enough dose of citalopram as I just didn't have the support from a specialist.
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Thanks penguin. Really helpful.
My GP is supportive and has suggested diazepan - but the name alone scares the life out of me.
Betablockers are a no go for my asthma apparently.
So you used betablockers for the physical side affects? And what, they just remove the jittery panic stuff???
Maybe I'll ask about them again. My asthma doesn't trouble me.
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Thanks penguin. Really helpful.
My GP is supportive and has suggested diazepan - but the name alone scares the life out of me.
Betablockers are a no go for my asthma apparently.
So you used betablockers for the physical side affects? And what, they just remove the jittery panic stuff???
Maybe I'll ask about them again. My asthma doesn't trouble me.
Yes, but a much lower dose than standard for both drugs. So 10mg of propanalol gets rid of my physical jitters (I never need more as I'm so sensitive to meds) instead of the usual 40mg and I get prescribed 5mg diazepam but use a pill cutter to halve it and take 2.5mg when needed. I have only ever needed to take 2 x 2.5mg in one day a few times when I've been waiting for health check results, the 2.5mg has always been enough and that is even when I am full on looping. It just slows it all down a bit for me which enables me to break the cycle of checking and overthinking etc. I would go ahead with the referral and at least talk to the psychiatrist and see what they propose, you don't have to go ahead with anything but they will have a lot more expertise than a GP.
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Thanks penguin, that's helpful.
I swear she mentioned 0.5mg diazapan ::) extremely low.
I'll maybe ask about 10mg betablockers or less. See if it's worth a try.
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Thanks penguin, that's helpful.
I swear she mentioned 0.5mg diazapan ::) extremely low.
I'll maybe ask about 10mg betablockers or less. See if it's worth a try.
The dose of diazepan for anxiety is 2mg up to three times a day. It doesn't come in smaller sizes than 2mg. I doubt 0.5mg (if you could even cut it that small) would do anything at all. Bear in mind tho, they will not give this for you to take on an ongoing basis, only ad hoc for occasional use.
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Yep. that is hardly a working dose discogirl. What's to lose on a weekend? Or mayB take 1 30 mins B4 bed so that U can sleep off any effects, though if U are like me you'll wake to see whether it's worked ::). Stick to that rather than propranolol if U have contraindications.
Similar to Penguin - 5mg valium used the night B4 an event that I am unable to get out of, knowing that I can take another 5mg the next morning = never required! When I was begging for admission to hospital because I felt unsafe, the Consultant told DH to give me 5mg then plus another 5mg in the early hours if required. I've taken 10mg 3 times a day which gives me the desired effect of getting rid of anxiety surges. As it worked I have never required more than necessary!
When my anxiety was bad so that I could hardly move, I would have taken heroin if I thought it would have worked :-\ :'(. Valium is used as a pre-med .
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Thanks penguin, that's helpful.
I swear she mentioned 0.5mg diazapan ::) extremely low.
I'll maybe ask about 10mg betablockers or less. See if it's worth a try.
There are various types of beta blocker. Having done a quick search on nhs, propanalol is a non selective one that may exacerbate asthma in some people. However there are a number of others that are known as 'selective beta blockers' which are okay if you have asthma. Ask your doctor to check, but it looks like there are a few options. And defo try a low low dose at first, the higher doses made me feel tired and lousy and I really didn't need a high dose x
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:thankyou: I took propranolol in the evening to ease early morning anxiety surges.
discogirl if u take 10mg at night you'll be OK. :bighug: I found that good effects lasted at least 3 days by which time the causation had gone. Also knowing that it worked helped a lot.
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Great. Thanks for that advice penguin.
So I could try like 5mg?
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:thankyou: I took propranolol in the evening to ease early morning anxiety surges.
discogirl if u take 10mg at night you'll be OK. :bighug: I found that good effects lasted at least 3 days by which time the causation had gone. Also knowing that it worked helped a lot.
Hi clkd
Apart from propranolol what medication did you take for your anxiety x
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Great. Thanks for that advice penguin.
So I could try like 5mg?
Diazepam? I'd say 2mg and then you can take a second dose if needed. If you get 5mg then I'd cut it in half and try 2.5mg as you should aim for the lowest dose possible that gives you relief. Get a pill cutter from amazon for about a fiver.
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Sorry, I meant 5mg betablocker?
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In 1988 I began ADs to ease depression and anxiety. In the early 1990s my GP prescribed valium/diazapam - initially 10mg 3 times a day then 5mg twice a day followed by 5mg as necessary. Any smaller dose is a placebo unless withdrawing.
I stopped valium and was OK for a while, then the GP put me onto 'propranolol;. 80mg 3 times a day for 3 weeks followed by 40mg twice a day for 2 weeks then 20mg for several years; taken at night to ease early morning surges. I was getting background headaches on waking so when we went into lockdown I stopped as I didn't know whether it was the BB or Covid ::). Lockdown was the best year I have ever had: Boris told us to stay at home so we did ;-)
I now have escitalopram 10mg at night, 5mg at breakfast as well as a go-2 med when anxiety floors me. Although many believe that valium can be addictive, taken under supervision as well as taking it 'as necessary' works for many. For me it's about getting the anxiety out of the way!
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Sorry, I meant 5mg betablocker?
Well the standard dose of propanalol is 40mg. But i only take 10mg. They actually prescribe them in 10mg for me. It is the diazepam I cut in half.
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Ah rightio.
Thanks. Lots to investigate. X
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Ah rightio.
Thanks. Lots to investigate. X
I'd say just make sure anything you take is with or after food given your gut issues. For example my fluoxetine causes nausea if on an empty tummy x
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Sorry, me again.
I've been thinking it through and I'd much rather try betablockers than diazapan during the start up.
So, did you take the 10mg betablockers every day or take it as and when you needed it in the first month?
Thanks. X
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Sorry, me again.
I've been thinking it through and I'd much rather try betablockers than diazapan during the start up.
So, did you take the 10mg betablockers every day or take it as and when you needed it in the first month?
Thanks. X
As and when needed although was tx just could take it every day if I wanted, it doesn't come with the same warning as diazepam. However, it only deals with the physical symptoms of anxiety. If you have cognitive/ mental issues, then it doesn't work for those. However, in a lot of times just dealing with the physical stopped mg mind latching on to the mental x
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Thank you penguin.
Much appreciated. It's the physical aggitation that gets me when I increase. So sounds absolutely like what I need. ;)
Thanks. X
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Interesting: I was told to definitely take Propranolol at the same time every day.
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Was this when starting out on your AD though clkd??? Or do you take it as well as your AD more often?
I'll only need it to help curb the start up side affects of the AD.
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I began ADs in 1998. As well as 'valium' on an as necessary basis. I wasn't given Propranolol until 2002 ........ still taking ADs but had dropped the 'valium'.
When my depression is worse for 3 mornings in a row I up the AD amount in the morning = 10mg at night and 10mg at breakfast.
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So when do you use the propranadol???
But that probably answers that. As Penguin is taking about using it fur start up AD side affects. Which is probably why it's an as and when requirement.
But I'll ask my GP and report back.
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Hi Crispy, I was prescribed propranolol by my GP a year ago, told to take it 3 times a day whilst I waited for an Endo apt. Endo then told me to take it as required, same as Penguin. It brings down my heart rate and blood pressure within about 12 minutes, it works quickly enough to stop the anxiety starting.
I had to increase the dose to get relief from heart stuff and *think* I’d prefer the beta blocker route to diazepam simply because it can be prescribed/increased easily without a fight with the surgery.
I hope something helps you soon. x
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So when do you use the propranadol???
But that probably answers that. As Penguin is taking about using it fur start up AD side affects. Which is probably why it's an as and when requirement.
But I'll ask my GP and report back.
You don't need to take it every day. It is definitely fine on an ad hoc basis. Ileith both the propanalol and diazepam I was told that i could take both every day for 1-2 weeks only, then as needed. The psych told me that some people take the diazepam every day for the first week or two when starting antidepressants because it helps get past the initial side up effects which can, in some people, include increased anxiety. But he said it was my choice and plenty of other people don't need to do that and just take as needed from the start, which is what I ended up doing and it was fine.
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Thanks folks.
I think I understand. And yes, this is literally to assist start up side affects. I would hope not to need it once the AD kicks in as I don't normally take anything!
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Hey ladies.
Those of you on AD for peri or meno - did you find (if you'd previously taken AD) that you needed a higher dose to curb the hormonal stuff?? Or not.
At what stage do folks decide to go up in dose??? Early doors, or wait it out a good month or two?
Many thanks.
I find start up so hard. ::)
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Anyone still out there on this thread?
Just needing a wee pep talk.
Nearly completed 4 weeks on 10mg escitalopram. Having been on 5mg for years (it was doing nothing).
I hate start up. I find it so hard. This 4th week has been the hardest yet. Extreme aggitation and panic all day, every day. Mood swinging up/down. Can get quite low or angry. But doesn't last too long.
And I've had terrible sensitive teeth since increasing. :(. Really hoping that goes.
Any advice appreciated. X
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5-10 is quite a jump, did U split the dose morning and evening? Agitation often happens with a change of ADs, I remember Dad having to walk when he was prescribed Ativan >:(.
As for sensitive teeth, when did U last see a dentist or hygienist? As oestrogen levels drop gums may recede = tooth loosening :o. The jaw bone, like all our bones, requires regular impact i.e.when we chew. I also have problems with burning mouth when I use paste with SLS in >:( :-X. MayB check the paste ingredients?
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5-10 is a big jump??? I thought it was normal dosing?
Anyway, I edged up to 10mg over the course of 10 days. But I've now done 4 weeks on 10mg and am worse than ever. And yes, I'm taking 5mg in am and 5mg in pm.
Yeah. I know it's normal. Any time I've done this it happens. It's just hard being in it. >:( and I forget how long if lasts. I could have another 4 weeks this bad. >:(
Teeth - I dont think it's dental as it's top and bottom on left side.
Interesting you mention low E. I just stopped chem meno and, the add back hrt, at the same time. So it's possible that triggered it.
I'm concerned it's the AD and I'll need to stop. ??? I'm in worry wart mode. :(
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Sometimes 5mg-10mg might be too much for the brain. If U eased up gradually and it hasn't helped, then time to speak to your GP again. If U have come out of chemical menopause, I would expect some reactions. What advice have U been given ?
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None. ;D
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That's not good enough. MayB it's time for you to write The Book?