Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: ATJ on September 05, 2024, 05:49:43 AM

Title: Estrogen for the face
Post by: ATJ on September 05, 2024, 05:49:43 AM
Hi all,

Is anyone on the group usie an estrogen cream on their face. 
What pros or cons have you noticed? 
Which one do you use?

Have a great day
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: CLKD on September 05, 2024, 06:53:51 AM
Why would any1 put oestrogen on the face  :-\
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: AngelaH on September 05, 2024, 08:41:42 AM
What kind of estrogen cream do you mean? There is specifically designed estrogen + progesterone cream for using only on the face for cosmetic effect. I used it for some period of time and I liked it.

Any other estrogen creams which are designed for HRT are not suitable for using on the face.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Dierdre on September 05, 2024, 08:51:54 AM
I put some Ovestin on a wrinkle on my forehead one night expecting it to be plumped up and gone the next day  ;D
Made no difference at all. :(
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 05, 2024, 10:39:10 AM
I use estrogen daily on my face. I use a full pump of Oestrogel, because I always seem to have some left over in my HRT bottles.

I do think it is making a difference but it takes a few months to notice. Plus the alcohol in the gel can be quite drying so 2 hours after putting the gel on, I wash it off and follow up with a thick moisturiser.

You can also use estriol (Ovestin) which would be less drying obviously as it's designed for vaginal use. If you are worried about absorbing systemically, Ovestin would be the better choice because research shows it's not absorbed systemically.

There is quite a lot of research out now on the use of estrogen for skin and already some products on the market. I just refuse to pay more and buy into meno marketing and already spend enough on tretinoin and other skincare.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Chunkola on September 05, 2024, 01:54:23 PM
I use ovestin - every other night about a pea size for both face and neck. I thought well if it plumps up down there it'll plump up my face as well! I have noticed a difference in moisture levels but it's only been a few weeks so we will see.

Yes there's a lot of hype around this at the moment and as pp said lots of companies jumping on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: CLKD on September 05, 2024, 04:34:36 PM
Girls!  the skin in our vaginas is totally different to that of anywhere else.  Absorption of estriol is unlikely to be of any benefit ...... it amazes me that many are concerned about using  any. HRT but then stick products on the face which are designed for elsewhere. 

I find that the yellow 'vaseline' hand cream is good all over and nivea for the face or a good sun screen, again nivea. 
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: CLKD on September 05, 2024, 04:35:04 PM
I think that this is a question for Dr Currie.  MayB to be discussed in the MM Magazine, mayB e-mail Emma?
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: rferdi on September 05, 2024, 04:48:15 PM
There is specifically designed estrogen + progesterone cream for using only on the face for cosmetic effect. I used it for some period of time and I liked it.

I'd like to know the name of this cream Angela H. I've been using an estradiol+estriol cream just twice a week for the past few months, even before I started HRT, called Life-Flo BiEstro care. My first HRT gynaecologist approved of it and said twice a week for now during peri would be enough. She said to use it on face, neck and hands (just 1 dollop of a specific size).

To be honest so far I can't say I've noticed much improvement, maybe it'll take much longer to see results, or maybe daily use, I don't know.

Recently I watched a video from this American HRT specialist doctor called Dr, Felice Gersh talking about the use of estradiol, estriol and progesterone cream for the face. It's on her youtube channel, one of her latest videos, in case someone's interested.

Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 06, 2024, 10:10:20 AM
rferdi I think a lot of the stuff you can get over the counter just isn't strong enough to be effective and definitely not twice a week plus over the counter. If you're not seeing improvements that's probably why.

CLKD there actually isn't much difference between the skin in the vagina and the skin on our face in terms of the estrogen receptors and the effect on elastic production, collagen and a decline of estrogen. In the same way that many women need local estrogen in the vagina even if they are on systemic HRT, so systemic HRT may not be enough to affect facial skin and help prevent aging there.

There is actually a good amount of research into this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772914/#:~:text=A%20randomized%2C%20double%2Dblind%2C,increases%20skin%20collagen%20by%206.49%25.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2685269/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352647519300012

https://www.dovepress.com/factors-influencing-skin-aging-and-the-important-role-of-estrogens-and-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-CCID

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028205010277

I am definitely not concerned about using HRT liberally, anywhere.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: AngelaH on September 06, 2024, 06:57:15 PM
I'd like to know the name of this cream Angela H.
I used Wellsprings face serum, it did its job very well. I had to stop using it because my body is too sensitive and everything I apply on my skin or into my vagina or even into my uterus immediately goes systemically, making changes to my whole body. I am currently trying different type of HRT and can’t mix them together.

 Life-Flo is body care, I have checked it doesn’t say that is suitable for the face.

Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: bombsh3ll on September 06, 2024, 08:44:51 PM
I wouldn't put anything on my face that wasn't intended for facial use.

Vaginal products contain alcohol which is drying on facial skin.

I use sunscreen most days, a good moisturizer and plan to maintain physiological levels of estrogen and testosterone systemically. That's all.

Androgens are also important in helping the skin produce its natural oils.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: rferdi on September 06, 2024, 08:46:21 PM
Life-Flo is body care, I have checked it doesn’t say that is suitable for the face.
Thanks for the Wellspring info, I didn't know about this product.
Yes the Life-Flo creams are for the body, but they can be used on the face, like many other creams and lotions. I read the full ingredient list first, and that's all that matters to me to really know if I can use any product on my face. I know what ingredients my skin doesn't do well with, and also if the cream's too thick or occlusive then I won't use it on my face either, as my skin's not dry.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: rferdi on September 06, 2024, 08:56:33 PM
rferdi I think a lot of the stuff you can get over the counter just isn't strong enough to be effective and definitely not twice a week plus over the counter. If you're not seeing improvements that's probably why.
You're likely right, however for now I've no access to an effective prescription cream. I wouldn't have any problems using the vaginal estriol/estradiol gel on my face if it wasn't for the alcohol in the formula, as well as some other ingredients I know my skin wouldn't tolerate.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 06, 2024, 09:35:02 PM
Well... you gotta balance up the fact it contains alcohol with the fact that it's estrogen. And (if you use leftovers!) free.

I haven't had any probs with the alcohol in it, and I also use a lot of other actives - tretinoin, vitamin C, niacinamide and lactic acid. And my skin barrier is handling the alcohol fine. But I do use a lot of moisturising Korean toners and thick barrier creams immediately after the Oestrogel.

Each to their own though.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: rferdi on September 06, 2024, 09:46:49 PM
I have super sensitive skin, it just couldn't handle the alcohol directly on it, I'd have to first apply a layer of moisture and then the gel, and I'm not sure it'd absorb well used this way. I can't use as many actives because of the sensitivity. Cannot use tretinoin on my face, though yes on my hands. I use Differin instead, and only twice a week. Some vitamin C, azelaic acid and that's about it. Niacinamide irritates me a lot. So yes I have to be very careful with anything I apply to my face, that's why I had to learn to read ingredient lists.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 06, 2024, 09:49:15 PM
You prob could use Ovestin though? It's designed for ultra-sensitive cracked va-jay-jays...
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: rferdi on September 06, 2024, 11:05:42 PM
Ovestin, I didn't know about this one as I'm in Spain. I'll look it up and check the full ingredient list. Would be nice if I could use it.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Dierdre on September 07, 2024, 08:55:45 AM
It's called Estriol now not Ovestin.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Ayesha on September 07, 2024, 09:08:48 AM
Superdrug Online Doctor service are selling, I assume old stock, Ovestin at £25.00 and Estriol at £55.00. Scandalous!
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 07, 2024, 02:02:18 PM
Estriol is the name of the drug itself, not the product. Ovestin is a brand name. Ovestin IS estriol if you look at the ingredients...
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Ayesha on September 07, 2024, 02:16:37 PM
The patent for the brand name has expired and it can cause confusion on a forum when referred to as Ovestin as we are now mainly being prescribed under the new name Estriol.  Saying that I picked up a prescription last week and was surprised it was Ovestin and assumed it was old stock.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: joziel on September 07, 2024, 02:44:37 PM
It doesn't make much sense for the non-branded drug itself to be £55 and the brand to be £25?
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: SarahJane1234 on December 15, 2024, 08:33:24 PM
the branded one is 15gm (or £1.67 per gram) and the generic one is 80gm (or 69p per gram)
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: SarahJane1234 on December 15, 2024, 08:37:15 PM
I've been looking at the ingredients online of ovestin - the alcohol it contains is fatty alcohol, not the drying kind.  I like incidecoder for explaining ingredients to me :)

I'm going to try some ovestin on my neck, as it doesn't tolerate tretinoin well, in that area.  I have it on prescription already anyway, and the concentration is weaker than some of the prescription services in the states, such as alloy or musely.
Title: Re: Estrogen for the face
Post by: Wania on December 16, 2024, 11:56:33 AM
Interesting question! I was just wondering the same lol.
I wouldn't risk estradiol on face etc, but I have always had a habit of steaming my face for cleansing effect/to clean out pores and for years I always found that ref clover gave me nearly magical effect. I have since started making my own soap (with all sorts of different things/herbs etc) because I can't tolerate any face washes. And recently moved to making face oils with combination of diff organic oils + red clover. So this is a far as I would go, herbs - Oil still infusing with Red Clover for testing.
But btw, apologies for going a bit OT, but most face washes are made with substances that clog pores, this is why now we have so many people with skin issues all over and teenagers the first time they start using proper skincare products. They first clog our pores with facewashes and then sell us products to unclog the pores and purify (kind of the same way as junk food manufacturers investing money in companies manufacturing products for fighting obesity lol).
So I use my soap, daily and let it sit on my face a bit longer during shower (no, it doesn't sting my eyes) and my skin has never been better for pores issues. The one I am on now is made with Aloe Juice, Goats milk and oats (all organic) with small amount of oils!.

I will be experimenting further to add things like sage to my soap kitchen :)