Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 05:43:47 PM

Title: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 05:43:47 PM
So I am on evorel sequi and on week six , been having anxiety and low mood swings , waking up early with anxiety sweating , off work with it , been given Venlafaxine but I am worried about taking it , I am had bad time coming off morphine in april , I have had chemo and radiation on pelvis , lots going on
Doctor thinks my hrt not causing the anxiety.
I don’t want to feel drugged , anyone tried it ?
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 09, 2024, 06:27:34 PM
Yep.  I've been on various ADs since 1988.  Once I found one that didn't make me nauseous, I've been fine.

Morphine is an optiate and is nowt like ADs - who over saw your withdrawal ?  When I had to stop an AD many years ago my GP gave advice as to how and when.  It took 9 weeks . 

How was your anxiety prior to everything else that you've been through?  As hormones rise and fall anxiety can become problematic.  HRT may take 3-4 months to kick in.
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 07:21:31 PM
I was fine right through treatment, very positive happy even though i was bedridden and lost 2 stone in 6 weeks due to no appetite.
The low mood started when I started withdrawing from morphine, and it has stayed  , my anxiety is triggered when I think about how I don’t feel right in my head,  has been on and off for 3 months now , I have had hot flushes since first week of cancer treatment, so Not sure if it was hormones or the treatment can cause it .
I was just left to get on with the withdrawal, I think I came off it too quickly to be honest , I dropped from about 100mg a day in 3 weeks , not felt normal since been off it two months .
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Hurdity on July 09, 2024, 07:27:28 PM
Hi alltheleaves

Sorry to hear about yout anxiety and mood swings. However anti-depressants should not be prescribed if the symptoms are due to menopause or the HRT.  To me the fact that you are waking sweating with anxiety points to a physiological cause - due to hormonal surges etc. Can you keep a diary to see whether there is a point in the cycle when this is occurring? Whereabouts are you in menopause? Maybe you need a different type of HRT or higher dose of oestrogen. Some women are sensitive to the progestogen in Evorel. Also have you had recent blood tests to rule out other causes? Personally I would try to sort out whether the HRT is right for you or not before taking the ADs unless you feel you can't cope, in which case they may help, though I have no experience of them. Even if you do start taking them I would still try to sort out your HRT if possible?

Hurdity x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 07:35:06 PM
I am only on half a patch of evorel because when i was convinced the full one was making me worse.
before I started on it I was taking yam capsules and I was having less sweats and sleeping better, but my depression was worse I think , I was still having periods before cancer treatment at 51 and i haven’t had one since february now , husband thinks I am better than I was a few weeks ago .
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 07:45:06 PM
Any recommendations for a private assessment? I am up north cumbria  :)
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Hurdity on July 09, 2024, 07:46:16 PM
You may be getting more sweats because you are further into menopause and in which case the half patch may well be insufficient. If you are able perhaps cut a bit less off the patch for a few weeks (say increase to 37.5 mcg ie 3/4 patch) and gradually work up to a whole one and see how you get on, but do wait a few weeks to allow your body to acclimatise each time before evaulating if you can

Glad your husband has seen an improvement and I hope that is a cause for optimism....great to have that support.

Hurdity x

Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 09, 2024, 07:57:50 PM
Thanks both , i agree about the ad but the doctor thinks it’s the trauma coming out and not my hormones, but i  wasn’t particularly traumatised throughout unless the morphine was masking it .
The fact that one day I can be dancing with the dog to it’s raining men , then the next feeling so down and anxious that I can’t get in the shower , suggests it’s hormones to me x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 10, 2024, 08:11:55 AM
Also U may well be in shock!   Were you given a dedicated Nurse to contact during your diagnosis and treatment?  After I left Hospital appts I had a very low few weeks as I had lost my support group and routine of travelling to/from radiation treatment on an area of the R breast.

It amazes me that patients are sent home with opiates without supervision.  Have U thought to contact your Surgeon to discuss? 

U could also look at the various support groups for drug withdrawal re the morphine to see whether depression is to be expected.  I would in your case use the Venlafaxine for 3-6 months as a back up - if symptoms of depression don't ease then discuss with your GP about weaning off to an HRT regime.

Let us know how you get on.  Keep posting!
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 10, 2024, 07:16:17 PM
Also U may well be in shock!   Were you given a dedicated Nurse to contact during your diagnosis and treatment?  After I left Hospital appts I had a very low few weeks as I had lost my support group and routine of travelling to/from radiation treatment on an area of the R breast.

It amazes me that patients are sent home with opiates without supervision.  Have U thought to contact your Surgeon to discuss? 

U could also look at the various support groups for drug withdrawal re the morphine to see whether depression is to be expected.  I would in your case use the Venlafaxine for 3-6 months as a back up - if symptoms of depression don't ease then discuss with your GP about weaning off to an HRT regime.

Let us know how you get on.  Keep posting!
Sorry to hear you went through cancer too , I mentioned all to my consultant and earlier it was mentioned about help with menopause and mental health but it was before I was experiencing it , my last appointment lasted 5 minutes and I didn’t really get much time , I was in hrt and he said ok .
I feel like my sadness has improved on hrt but my anxiety has got worse, especially on morning , but doctors think it’s unlikely hrt causing because I am only on half patch , if I put on a full I get headaches and more anxiety but it could be all in my head .
I actually think I have got used to the way I feel , I am not interested in the future, little things like getting a freshly changed bed I used to love , I don’t have any care about , find putting makeup on and doing hair a chore , no interest in my hobbies either .
But It’s just blah, not as sad .
Have you tried the venlafaxine?
I am not sure if it’s going to benefit me and i don’t want to feel anything other than normal, and the withdrawal scares me 😟
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 10, 2024, 07:44:07 PM
It certainly is 'not all in your head'!  Our feelings, experiences and symptoms are real. 

I have had no problems with the ADs since the early days. (1988). Withdrawal can be difficult for some: 4 me it was the worry that the effects wouldn't go = returning to medication.  And why stop if something works?  My GP advised dropping a dose every 3rd day, once I realised that bounce back anxiety didn't get worse or last more than 12 hours, I coped.  It took 9 weeks.

Then I was swapped to another AD which has worked well. I wouldn't worry again.

You have had huge upheaval!  Your body and brain are probably still processing what happened. 

Don't worried about your hobbies etc., this too will improve.  Have U been offered any after-surgery counselling?  I think that trying the AD may well lift your mood after a few weeks: little steps. 

My anxiety is always worse of a morning, partly surges due to cortisol.  As the day goes by and my commitments are less, my mood improves  ::)

Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Moog77 on July 11, 2024, 07:25:19 AM
Venlafaxine is very very difficult to taper off. If that is a worry for you then I'd rethink it.

From personal experience I wouldn't ever recommend anyone take this unless they feel there are no other options.
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: AmandaJR on July 11, 2024, 07:50:05 AM
I totally agree with Moog77. Venlafaxine took me 2 years to get off and I only took it for 4 months, even with amazing professional support. It was hell, I thought the emotional torment would never end. Was 100 times worse than quitting morphine abruptly taken for 8 months after a car accident.

Alltheleaves, you’ve had a super tough year and now in peri/meno. Well done for battling everything you’ve been through. Your symptoms sound like my drop of a cliff start to peri, HRT took 6 months to work properly for me and it wasn’t easy but so worth it. Can you see a different GP at your surgery or see a Menopause Specialist privately?

Good luck, sending big hugs, don’t give in. X
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 07:56:00 AM
I must point out that antidepressant medication and opiates are totally different to each other.  As well as each 1 of us reacting differently.

ADs are not addictive medications as opiates may turn out to be.  It is usually bounce back symptoms with AD withdrawal which is scary.  Moog77 and AmandaJR did U report your problems on the yellow card system, at the time I withdrew from Venlafaxine I wasn't aware such a system was avilable. 
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 07:56:39 AM
I have used 'valium' on an as-necessary basis with success as well as Propranolol 2 ease anxiety surges.

Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Helenmelon1974 on July 11, 2024, 08:07:30 AM
I have been on venlafaxine for 8 years and it literally saved my life! Yes it’s going to take a while to taper off if I chose to but I managed to half my dose slowly with no problems. I only went back up due to losing my partner to suicide. X
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 08:10:24 AM
So sorry about that.  It's an emotive subject that we should be talking about more often.  My friend ended his Life 10 years ago, he had various health problems .   :hug:

Why stop the Venlafaxine?  I would never stop any of my meds., the GP arranges an annual health check around my birthday so that I don't forget  ::). 
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: AmandaJR on July 11, 2024, 08:18:07 AM
CLKD, no I didn’t report Venlafaxine withdrawal to the yellow card system, not sure whether I knew about it. I was far too sick withdrawing to do basic daily tasks never mind operating a website!

Heenmelon1974, sorry to hear that. X
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 11, 2024, 11:42:12 AM
I have used 'valium' on an as-necessary basis with success as well as Propranolol 2 ease anxiety surges.
I feel good on diazepam, unfortunately it is not a good thing to use regularly, i used it for my scan yesterday and had a good day , but today feeling the brunt of it x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 11, 2024, 11:50:08 AM
I totally agree with Moog77. Venlafaxine took me 2 years to get off and I only took it for 4 months, even with amazing professional support. It was hell, I thought the emotional torment would never end. Was 100 times worse than quitting morphine abruptly taken for 8 months after a car accident.

Alltheleaves, you’ve had a super tough year and now in peri/meno. Well done for battling everything you’ve been through. Your symptoms sound like my drop of a cliff start to peri, HRT took 6 months to work properly for me and it wasn’t easy but so worth it. Can you see a different GP at your surgery or see a Menopause Specialist privately?

Good luck, sending big hugs, don’t give in. X
The practice nurse said it’s just a taper off and not a problem, I have been so tempted to take them I just want to enjoy getting into clean sheets again , all the little things I used to love are not there , and I want to get back to work,but i am not keen on the idea of been stuck on them .
I think I need to see a specialist about the menopause, is it the newson everyone recommends ?
I have put full patch on today and flushing as we I speak , I can almost bring it on by thinking about it x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Moog77 on July 11, 2024, 12:09:37 PM
I totally agree with Moog77. Venlafaxine took me 2 years to get off and I only took it for 4 months, even with amazing professional support. It was hell, I thought the emotional torment would never end. Was 100 times worse than quitting morphine abruptly taken for 8 months after a car accident.

Alltheleaves, you’ve had a super tough year and now in peri/meno. Well done for battling everything you’ve been through. Your symptoms sound like my drop of a cliff start to peri, HRT took 6 months to work properly for me and it wasn’t easy but so worth it. Can you see a different GP at your surgery or see a Menopause Specialist privately?

Good luck, sending big hugs, don’t give in. X
The practice nurse said it’s just a taper off and not a problem, I have been so tempted to take them I just want to enjoy getting into clean sheets again , all the little things I used to love are not there , and I want to get back to work,but i am not keen on the idea of been stuck on them .
I think I need to see a specialist about the menopause, is it the newson everyone recommends ?
I have put full patch on today and flushing as we I speak , I can almost bring it on by thinking about it x


Honestly I would look out peoples experience with this drug trying to come off it. Im afraid its not just a taper for everyone - the exact opposite in fact.

Severe vomiting and diarrhea are not bounceback symptoms. Severe dizziness, slurring words and brain zaps are not bounceback symptoms. I missed 2 doses of this a good while back and was taken to an emergency doctor who took one look at me and said I might need lithium because I was in a heap on the floor. 2 missed doses will not give bounceback symptoms. I quit prozac cold turkey with no issues and have also had to previously taper off opioids. Venlafaxine has a very short half life compared to other AD's which is why it produces withdrawal symptoms.

I am still on this med but on a much lower dose than I was with very careful tapering. Its essentially an non therapeutic dose now. I intend to taper off at 10% every month shortly now I feel more balanced on HRT. I have been on it since my 20's and it has done nothing for me but leave me essentially a white collar junkie who cannot miss a dose. And no i have not yellow carded this due to the outrageous gaslighting and trivialising i have experienced whilst being on this drug. The GP surgery I am now at refuse to prescribe venlafaxine.

Alltheleaves I am so sorry  - you have really been through the wringer. Sending good wishes your way.
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 12:52:59 PM
I used 5mg 'valium' nights B4 I had to attend events that I was unable to get out of, visiting family in the main.  It has a 3-day 'shelf' life so once the anxiety was under control: as well as knowing that I could take another 5mg the next day and never required it: it helped me to survive. 

Propranolol later on helped too.

If it works there's no need to stop taking it if 1 is worried about withdrawal effects.  I think that there is a supportive web-site regarding stopping?
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 11, 2024, 12:58:25 PM
Moog77 you have confirmed a lot of what i found online , I am not that bad I need it yet i don’t think , I am just not happy , no joy , I am hoping it comes back soon , it’s worse in the house , I have twin girls who are 11 , before I was ill they played with dolls in the snug all there dolls house and stuff is making me feel strange .
Since after my treatment they haven’t touched it , I think they have grown up and it’s like a different world from before, I can’t come to grips with this in my head at all , everything feels different , I used to be happy sniffing a bottle of fabric softener , it’s a big change for me this x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Moog77 on July 11, 2024, 01:39:56 PM
Alltheleaves

you have been through so much - the lack of joy and emotion will be a reaction to that as well as menopause.  Its a strange unsettling time. The last few years I felt this creeping in - a sort of 'is this it?' - just drudgery and uniformity. And uneasiness. And I have a good life which I am grateful for but I can't seem to find any real interest or appreciation.  I basically slouch around in trackies and hoodies with no thought for doing my hair or make up - things I wouldnt have stepped out the house without before. House cleaning and washing is the bare minimum now whereas I had dedicated days to this before! Please know you are not alone and this is very very common. Its a slog and that's no mistake.

The hormonal changes on top of what your body has been through and the emotional impact cannot be underestimated. We are here for you if you need it.

Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 02:20:49 PM
Sounds like depression from my experience, little to do with peri-menopause.  I had depression in the 1980s - no energy, was unable to get out of bed, or I would sit: staring at a wall for hours  :'(.  When the dog needed out I would crawl down stairs, lay on the floor whilst she went out, crawled back once she hopped back over my body: and go back to bed. 
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Moog77 on July 11, 2024, 02:37:34 PM
^ is this in relation to me or alltheleaves?
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: K45 on July 11, 2024, 03:33:57 PM

I was on venlafaxine for about 8 years and although the drug helped when my depression/anxiety was v bad the withdrawal is something to bear in mind. It was something I never wish to repeat but I do think GPs are more aware these days. To be honest I'm finding the combination of magnesium glycinate, Turmeric & vit D3 to be as effective as most ADs I've tried in the past. I felt quite flat on venlafaxine and a bit too numb. Everyone is different though and I know a few people who find it very helpful to stay well.

quote author=alltheleaves link=topic=70108.msg951889#msg951889 date=1720547027]
So I am on evorel sequi and on week six , been having anxiety and low mood swings , waking up early with anxiety sweating , off work with it , been given Venlafaxine but I am worried about taking it , I am had bad time coming off morphine in april , I have had chemo and radiation on pelvis , lots going on
Doctor thinks my hrt not causing the anxiety.
I don’t want to feel drugged , anyone tried it ?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Nas on July 11, 2024, 03:55:45 PM
Everyone reacts differently to these drugs it seems. Some people swear by them, whilst others struggle with side effects and the hell of trying to come off them.

Don't underestimate the impact of your cancer on your body and mind alltheleaves. I have secondary breast cancer ( I am fine and it is stable for now) but back in February/March time, the anxiety of it all, kicked my a**e to space and I felt dreadful. I am now back at work and doing the best I can. Meno AND cancer treatment, could well be the cause of your lack of joy feeling. So many women feel this way, once they reach a certain stage of life. A kind of 'Is this it?' feeling ( I feel this quite often!) Everything feels an effort as you drag yourself around.

I personally would not touch these anti d's with a barge pole. Have you tried CBD oil? I am taking this and definitely feel a 'lift' in mood after a few drops a day. It is THC free.

Hope you feel better soon  :)
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 11, 2024, 04:33:58 PM

I was on venlafaxine for about 8 years and although the drug helped when my depression/anxiety was v bad the withdrawal is something to bear in mind. It was something I never wish to repeat but I do think GPs are more aware these days. To be honest I'm finding the combination of magnesium glycinate, Turmeric & vit D3 to be as effective as most ADs I've tried in the past. I felt quite flat on venlafaxine and a bit too numb. Everyone is different though and I know a few people who find it very helpful to stay well.

quote author=alltheleaves link=topic=70108.msg951889#msg951889 date=1720547027]
So I am on evorel sequi and on week six , been having anxiety and low mood swings , waking up early with anxiety sweating , off work with it , been given Venlafaxine but I am worried about taking it , I am had bad time coming off morphine in april , I have had chemo and radiation on pelvis , lots going on
Doctor thinks my hrt not causing the anxiety.
I don’t want to feel drugged , anyone tried it ?
[/quote]
Thanks for your experience I have decided not to take for now , I am coping I am too taking magnesium glycinate , I have been using l theanine as well this is very calming , I have solgar 5htp that seems to make me feel less anxious if I take it before bed , hopefully this hrt will perform the miracle I am expecting x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: alltheleaves on July 11, 2024, 04:39:40 PM
Everyone reacts differently to these drugs it seems. Some people swear by them, whilst others struggle with side effects and the hell of trying to come off them.

Don't underestimate the impact of your cancer on your body and mind alltheleaves. I have secondary breast cancer ( I am fine and it is stable for now) but back in February/March time, the anxiety of it all, kicked my a**e to space and I felt dreadful. I am now back at work and doing the best I can. Meno AND cancer treatment, could well be the cause of your lack of joy feeling. So many women feel this way, once they reach a certain stage of life. A kind of 'Is this it?' feeling ( I feel this quite often!) Everything feels an effort as you drag yourself around.

I personally would not touch these anti d's with a barge pole. Have you tried CBD oil? I am taking this and definitely feel a 'lift' in mood after a few drops a day. It is THC free.

Hope you feel better soon  :)
Sorry to hear of your cancer , it is a hard time to go through, I wish you well , I have tried cbd ,I sometimes take one if I wake up in the night , along with other things , the best supplement I have used is the green tea extract l theanine , It has nearly given me some normal days x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: CLKD on July 11, 2024, 04:43:52 PM
Moog77 - you are asking a menopausal woman here  ::) - 'to whom it may concern' perhaps. 

I also found Bachs rescue remedy mouth spray useful B4 an event which could have triggered anxiety, a couple of sprays on the tongue and I never thought whether it would/not work.  Easy to carry.  I believe there are pastels [?] too.
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: K45 on July 11, 2024, 06:52:21 PM
It took a good few months for HRT to really make a difference and for me it felt like things got worse before they got better. Give it 3 months and hopefully you will feel the benefits x
Title: Re: Venlafaxine experiences
Post by: Moog77 on July 12, 2024, 09:19:38 AM
CLKD thanks for your opinion but my experience is most definitely peri menopausal and linked to many other symptoms occurring at the same time. Suggesting its depression and nothing to do with peri is what many many ladies have put up with on this forum. As someone who had dealt with an extremely abusive childhood, 2 premature births and seriously ill babies and a child death inbetween I am well aware how depression presents.  ::)
 
Alltheleaves I really hope you get the solution you need. You have been through so much.