Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Postmenopause => Topic started by: MrsMitch on July 02, 2024, 07:18:19 PM
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Hello ladies, I'd expected to have been on here weeks ago with positive results after being prescribed testosterone, but no.
I've had a horrendous virus that knocked me out for about a month. It wasn't covid but I was freezing cold, sneezing, streaming eyes & nose etc. No temperature oddly but the worst thing was I was so ill, I couldn't sleep at all save for maybe dropping off for a couple of minutes. I could barely get out of bed. The GP, after a week if this was not at all interested and all I was asking for help with was sleep. I told her over the counter meds didn't work so she told me to drink alcohol. I explained I didn't drink so she suggested I start!!!
Anyway I'm just starting to sleep for about 6 hrs a night but once I wake up, there's no getting back off which is totally new. My body temperature is haywire, still colder than normal so I have reduced my oestrogel to 4 pumps but I wonder if I should drop to 2 now. Again GP not interested in advising.
So after being promised the results of the blood test for testosterone levels a week after my appointment mid May, I've been chasing since. Finally the meno specialist sent them to the GP who sat on them so I had to chase again. The surgery pharmacist messaged saying if my symptoms didn't improve on my current HRT regime, I could trial testosterone. Called the surgery again and told them that my symptoms of low libido and lack of energy would not improve with no testosterone and that was the whole point of seeing the specialist - who told me testosterone was what I needed. Next day they sent me the letter from the specialist and she'd said I needed to see if my symptoms improved with my current HRT.
WHAAATTTT????
So I'm afraid I got really cross with the surgery because I've waited 18 months to see the specialist for nothing. What is wrong with these people? Why can't we get what we need? Why don't so called Menopause specialists know what they are doing?
After a lot of complaining they have issued a prescription for testosterone to trial for 6 weeks and then I need to book a blood test. It seems they don't want me on it long term. I think I will ask them to check all my levels so maybe I can sort out my oestrogen too.
Is it normal to not be able to use it long term or is my surgery just their usual useless selves?
So for long post and whinge but I'm so exhausted, still feeling rough and fed up with this battle to get the right HRT, like I know lots of you are too.
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That does sound very frustrating but it is likely that they are hesitant to prescribe due to a lack of experience and probably pressure from the health board.
Firstly I don't understand why you would be changing your estrogen dose a) at all and b) at the same time as introducing testosterone. This is best kept consistent so that you can assess the response to testosterone.
Secondly - you have the prescription for testosterone, which is a major win 😀! I can tell you that the index prescription sets a precedent and subsequent prescriptions are typically much easier to obtain.
The blood test is to check you are not over treated. This is normal and there would be no point monitoring a treatment that they didn't intend to continue prescribing.
They may however not understand that the benefits of testosterone can take months to be felt, so it may be a good idea to meet them where they are at and say it is helpful at 6 weeks, to then give yourself long enough to properly assess this.
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Thank you for commenting, Bombsh3ll, the reduction in Oestrogel is because my temperature has been fluctuating from painfully cold so that I was taking hot baths in the heatwave last week to warm up, to being a little warm, which for me is so odd. I wanted to know from the GP if it could be whatever virus I've had or too much oestrogen. She said she had no idea and to try reducing it. But without a blood test who knows.
My blood test for testosterone was 0.2 nmol/L.
Am I correct, BTW, that Testogel isn't available on the NHS prepay cert?
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MrsMitch,
Thank you for your PM. I cannot PM you back because I have not posted 10 or more useful posts at this point, being a newbie :) I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your reaching out to me and hopefully in the future we will be able to correspond. I hope you are feeling better and you can get things sorted out soon.
Prayers for you 🙏🏻
GOD Bless
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Hi you’re right that testosterone isn’t available on the HRT pre pay certificate but if you get it through your GP you could get a pre pay that covers all medication.
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Feeling cold is not a typical symptom of excess estrogen.
Many healthcare professionals who are not experienced in menopause care perceive estrogen as dangerous, and would suggest reducing it even if you went with an ingrown toenail.
I don't know if you have ever been pregnant but if you have you would have had sky high estrogen levels - did you feel cold?
If that persists I would be thinking about a thyroid test.
Excess estrogen typically presents with sore swollen breasts, water retention and heavier bleeds (if still menstruating).
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MrsMitch
Where are you in menopause and how old are you? How long on HRT? If you have reduced your oestrogen to 4 pumps - what on earth was your dose before that?! Reducing by two pumps is a huge reduction especially if you are absorbing - but maybe you are not?
Personally I would wait until I was well over the virus before introducing any changes and also as per bombshell only change one thing at a time and give it a few weeks at least so you can monitor. What is the dose you have been recommended - that your specialist has said to monitor for improvement? Is this the 4 pumps?
I think it is possible to experience extreme temperature fluctuations with underactive thyroid (leading to feeling cold) combined with menopausal symptoms ie hot flushes due to inadequate oestrogen - leading to cold sweats and hot flushes at times. A virus can also create havoc with temperature regulation even in the absence of a fever - maybe affecting your response to HRT as well?
Just a few thoughts though nothing concrete - sorry I can't help further.
Hurdity x
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In answer, I'm 56 postmenopause for around 2 years, and no, I've never been pregnant, so no idea about that.
I've only just gone up to 6 pumps suggested by the meno specialist, due to symptoms returning so only possibly 2 weeks of that dose prior to virus and then a bit hit and miss throughout because i was too ill to be bothered! So really, I suppose you could say I'm on the same dose as I have been for over a year again .When I first started with meno symptoms, chills accompanied the flushes. My thyroid function was tested just before Christmas prior to hysteroscopy, but if this continues, I can ask if blood test could be repeated, if they'll do it.
TBH I'm kind of enjoying not having loads of flushes and night sweats and I'd rather take less HRT if possible after all the palaver with the hysteroscopy. Plus, I was still spotting every day and the specialist said if I go up to 6 pumps, I will bleed more and might decide rather than have that daily I should tailor the regime so I have a breakthrough bleed each month. Either option isn't good because wearing pads plays havoc with the external side of VA.
I have got a follow-up apt with the specialist later in the year so if I'm still having odd symptoms, at least I can talk them through.
Thanks for the in put, appreciated as always.
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Testosterone seem to be under the spotlight right now, but, as it says in this article, they know nothing still. Only just woke up!
Most still see it as some magic gel that increase libido, but warn that one could get low voice with it... In other words, dark ages continue!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/05/prescribing-of-testosterone-for-middle-aged-women-out-of-control
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What is known is that when women are young they actually have far more testosterone than estrogen, and when it declines, this results in symptoms and physical changes that are real and can be very distressing.
I personally have no fear of having testosterone levels in the physiological range for a young healthy female.
The guardian article is really quite condescending towards women and written as if we are not particularly intelligent.
If someone uses excessive amounts and/or doesn't follow up with blood tests to make sure they aren't over treated, then yes they may end up with side effects - that's the case with most medical treatments yet there's this undercurrent of disapproval regarding mature women looking, feeling and functioning our best.
A lot of overtreatment also stems from women being unable to access safe care with a female appropriate product - they are using products made for men sometimes bought online with no medical supervision.
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Well, I'll say it, after reading that article - they are not at all concerned about giving children all manner of puberty blockers, hormones and goodness knows what else in the deluded idea that one can actually change their sex, but not give testosterone to mature, generally well informed women who just need some help to be able to live their lives as well as possible. All whilst being monitored.
I will still be a woman in spite of using testosterone. And if I grow a beard and get a deep voice, I'll join the circus and hopefully be able to give up my day job!! /s
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I don't know how much that unfortunate singer was taking - excess testosterone usually presents early on with acne so I would have thought she'd have had a face full of pimples long before her voice broke but perhaps her beard was covering it 🤣
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;D ;D ;D
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Well, I'll say it, after reading that article - they are not at all concerned about giving children all manner of puberty blockers, hormones and goodness knows what else in the deluded idea that one can actually change their sex, but not give testosterone to mature, generally well informed women who just need some help to be able to live their lives as well as possible. All whilst being monitored.
I will still be a woman in spite of using testosterone. And if I grow a beard and get a deep voice, I'll join the circus and hopefully be able to give up my day job!! /s
This is completely untrue. Treatment for trans youth has been completely stopped. It’s horrific. It is exactly the same as denying HRT to women in the menopause. It’s all fear mongering.
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Testosterone seem to be under the spotlight right now, but, as it says in this article, they know nothing still. Only just woke up!
Most still see it as some magic gel that increase libido, but warn that one could get low voice with it... In other words, dark ages continue!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/05/prescribing-of-testosterone-for-middle-aged-women-out-of-control
Wow again a fear mongering article on HRT. It’s true that not everyone will need testosterone but a lot of women will. Specially if you’ve had a hysterectomy and your ovaries were removed. I’ve been on testosterone for 2 years and my levels are still on the low side. I have private blood tests as my gp doesn’t do them for hormones to make sure I am in range.
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This is completely untrue. Treatment for trans youth has been completely stopped. It’s horrific. It is exactly the same as denying HRT to women in the menopause. It’s all fear mongering.
That was my point and it has only just been stopped.
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I think it is important to sound a note of caution about the prescribing of testosterone for women - but mainly because there is such ignorance about it by the medical profession, and because we continue to have to be prescribed products designed for men and therefore the potential to take too much is great - especially now there is no longer any 1% gel - when previously there were two brands producing this.
In the past there was the Intrinsa patch which was withdrawn, I understand for commercial reasons, but surely now there is a commerical need for it so why has it not been reintroduced? I don't know the process by which products are brought onto the market by Pharma - who makes the first move? Androfeme is only available privately at great expense so why is the NHS not seeking approval/licensing, rather than giving us Testogel or Tostran?
There have been several instances on here of women being prescribed T on the basis of the NICE Guidelines but in completely wrong dosages which in my view is unforgiveable by a GP. All it needs is a small bit of research - notably the BMS Tools for Clinicians, to prescribe correctly.
Of course also to monitor levels so they remain within the physiological range for women - that should not need to be stated at all.
Finally the article is correct in saying there are no long term data regarding safety of T supplementation in women which of course is a concern when some could be taking it for 40 years. I've been taking it for 9 years already but didn't start until age 62....there should be proper trials of properly formulated T in concentrations suitable for women! (Hollow laugh!)
Hurdity x
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I was 59.. now 69.
At 63, my whole HRT was cut down in half... because old people should not have hormones..? This produced whole range of issues I am not really getting much of informed help with.. My GPs diagnosing sucks. Waiting times long, I turned to private ...
Problem is NHS Guidance, for, I see, they do not see you, your particular make up, how you feel, etc.. They read guidance and give you whatever it says to give you. Like, for example, that woman my age should not get more than 50 dose patch..
I could be collapsing in front of them and not get anymore.. in result have prolapse, bladder and rectal issues, possible incontinence, difficulty walking, require spine fusion, will need domestic help, but no! No more HRT!.. guidance says!
Few days ago, my surgery young receptionist tried to question my increased few months ago testo dose....
In process now of checking how GP listen to private Consultant..
I am not sure if I want to continue with such living... It's so ridiculous!
ps: I wonder how many men with Prostate issues are told that that's a natural process and to get on with it..?!🤔
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Hi orrla
Sorry to hear about your problems with HRT and health issues.
As far as I know there is no guidance that says women over a certain age should not get more than 50 mcg patch. I am 71 and prescribed a 75 mcg - albeit that I cut it down to about 62-65 mcg. There is no longer an age limit provided you do not have any contra-indications to HRT generally. Testosterone is trickier as it is unlicensed for women, so unfortunately it is down to the individual practice, despite the NICE Guidelines, but a good GP should follow the guidance of the private consultant which may mean that only one visit might be needed - as this can be very costly. Not sure whether they are obliged to or not though?
I hope you get your issues sorted!
Hurdity x
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Thanks! I am on it..! ..although it might be too late..
I don't know if that's everyone's experience with hormones but, when I am on a too little dose, I become dozy, not terribly bright, slow to connect dots, so it takes a while before I realise what's happening.. as that's what happened.
But, I am deeply disappointed with medical professionals, those whom I went to get help, to maintain reasonable body health shape in my later life, only made things worst...