Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Postmenopause => Topic started by: MrsMitch on April 22, 2024, 10:36:40 AM
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Hello ladies, once again I'd value your thoughts. I've finally, after 18 months, got an appointment in July at the hospital with the menopause specialist. The reason for being referred was to get my Estradiol prescribed x7 per week but my GP has done that now. I was also hoping to ask for testosterone to see if my elusive libido might be resurrected.
My GP told me who it would be with and I said there is no way I'm seeing a man. She dismissed what I said and said he's excellent in his field ( he was actually mentioned in an article in the daily mail at the weekend). But I just could not speak to a man about my problems and I presume he would want to examine me to see the VA? I'd run for the hills.
Do you think if I phone the dept I could ask to see a woman ? What if they don't actually have one? I know we're all different but I just could not see him!! I also know these appointments are scarce.
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I have found over the many years, that male medics are better than females! ::)
In many countries there are no female medics or nurses :-\. U R able to take someone with you as chaperone, this should be offered at all appts from GP upwards. However.
Certain ethic groups do not allow females to be examined by a male Physician. So your phone call may be valid but don't be disappointed if your preference isn't available.
Let us know how you get on.
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If you're not comfortable definitely say so and get a different referral. My mum has this issue (early sexual assault when young) and she has seen a woman gynae. Having said that the terms 'male' and female' mean nothing in the NHS anymore. You could always have a private consultation with a consultant of your choice if they insist on treating your concerns as trivial.
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Hi MrsMitch, Could you enquire as to whether you could see a female if that's your preference....but don't cancel the appointment just incase you change your mind.
In my experience with gynae I've always had a chaperone when internal examinations are carried out regardless of whether they're male/female.
I agree with the others that it's your choice at the end of the day.....but will that mean an even longer wait? Have you been waiting ages anyway?
I'd weigh up the pros and cons ....Good luck :)
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Hi - I agree with what others have said:
1. If you're really not comfortable, you have the right to see anyone who will make you less uncomfortable.
2. Having been made very ill indeed by a famous female GP meno 'specialist' I have been very lucky to end up with a leading meno consultant who happens to be male. He is at least as comfortable/empathetic and a billion times more knowledgeable and has taken more & better care of me than any doctor (of any gender) I've ever seen. I'd go for expertise/approach over gender every time, but that's just me.
3. On reflection it is a sad truism (and indictment) of the system that there are probably fewer at the most-experienced consultants around, particularly perhaps in the NHS, who are female - but that's a philosophical/bigger conversation for another day! There probably is at least one junior woman in his team.
4. You have the right to ask to see a female doctor if you prefer. If you can get through on the phone, you're doing better than I've ever managed and personally I'd expect if you did you'd probably get some outsourced /offsite admin who a) wouldn't know and b) might move your appointment back further. If it were me, I'd go on the day and tell them when you arrived you want to see a female doctor. Clinics don't often tell you this but apparently you have the right to ask to see a consultant when you arrive - just expect them to make you wait and don't complain about the time - so I don't see it'd be any different.
When I went for a scan a few months ago, when I was finally called by a young guy, I said (as I had when arrived) 'No disrespect but I'd like to see' and he interrupted me to say 'a woman' - clearly because so many people did say that. I said no, a consultant (who in that particular clinic head consultant was a man and I named him). He almost fell off his stool because he is clearly so used to people asking for a female / female consultant, but I'd been told he was the best and that's what matters most to me. That was for an internal procedure, but I'm sure you're not the first to ask at this clinic. Just be prepared to wait, don't make a fuss about time - and I'd probably arrive a bit early and make clear you're happy to wait as long as it takes as they are flexing for you.
Good luck!
xx
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Love your assertiveness Hollyboll….
Just wanted to add that my female GP who I assumed would be understanding was v quick to counsel me against HRT and as a result I suffered longer than needed. I did get started eventually but a few months ago her male colleague was covering for her one day and since speaking with him I’ve never looked back….
Re: the physical exam, it really is a personal preference but I’d personally prioritise experience over gender…
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Love your assertiveness Hollyboll….
I've learned the very hard way, with nobody to advocate for me and let down very badly by doctors who were supposed to look after me. Lack of trust / terror / self-protection may occasionally appear as assertive.
xx
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Hollyboll, totally agree with you. The older I've got the more I've learned to "assert" myself more with the medical profession.
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You are right, these appoinments are scarce.
If it were me, I would go to the appointment, particularly as this consultant is one of the best.
Chances are, a female chaperone willl be present anyway.
What you need to remember, is that he does this for a living; it's his bread and butter if you like.
He may be fantastic! :)
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Totally up to you on who you want to see and if that's a female then you have the right to be seen by one.
All I can add is my own experience. A male consultant gynaecologist carried out all my scans and exams when I was referred to the hospital. I'd checked before and knew he was very knowledgeable and had lots of patients singing his prasies so I decided to go for it. He was amazing. Explained everything, answered my questions, reassured me the whole way through, kept asking if I was okay, did I want him to stop etc etc.
A female doctor was there the whole time and was equally reassuring and would have done the exams if I had wanted her to.
I really couldn't have asked for a better service.
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Forgot to say, when I was first on the scrounge for HRT initially, numerous female GPS's pretty much told me to "get on with it" (previous breast cancer history) and were very dismisive of my sympoms and VA. But when I went to chat with my (male) oncologist, he was wonderful, in the respect that he fully understood my dilemma (even said his wife was on HRT and how life changing it was for her) Although he couldn't help me, his attitude was great and undrerstood quality of life is important.
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An update: I was called by the appointments dept and I've been offered an appointment this Tuesday which is fantastic. I mentioned to the guy that called I would only see a woman and he said he'd go and check that would be possible. Called back and said that's fine. So happy me!
I'm going to refuse an internal anyway BTW. I don't know if it'll be even necessary, so I was only assuming I'd have to endure one again. My VA although improving is no where near good enough to have one and I really can't see what it would achieve. The surgeon who did my hysteroscopy said it caused he problems and is very bad, I refused when I called the GP about spotting and she accepted that. But as I said, I don't imagine it'd be necessary anyway. This appointment was only ever to get estradiol x7 week, which I've got, so I just need testosterone and a review of the rest of my HRT regime.
As others have said, you do learn to be more assertive with the medical profession. I was always very submissive but not any more. Going way back it was on here that it was suggested, when my VA was horrendous, to refuse internals and I did. I felt in charge of me for once!
But I appreciate all your help and care. I'm so fortunate to be able to come here and get advice from others who understand, thank you. I'll update after my appointment.
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Take a list of worries with you?
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Glad you are happy! Yes, good advice from clkd take a list so you don't forget anything, every time something comes to mind write it down. Will be thinking of you on Tuesday - let us know how you get on xx
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:great: :thankyou:
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Thank you ladies, I'm so fortunate to have you all. CLKD, yes I have written everything down but so far it's an essay ;D so I just have to edit it to bullet points!! But appreciate the suggestion because I know I'll forget once I get in there.
Can I just add, in case you think I'm a looney, I do realise there would be a chaperone, that doesn't worry me because my husband is accompanying me, I just freeze at the thought of talking to a man about this. We were with friends some time back and us girls were talking all things meno and my friends husband started asking me about my symptoms to compare to his wife. I could barely say a word. My husband jumped in for me, thankfully.
I'm just not comfortable. Maybe I am a looney ;D
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No, no, you are not a "looney". I would be exactly the same, in fact would not want to talk about symptoms in mixed company. We all have a right, male or female about what we are comfortable with concerning our bodies.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with you, and it is not helpful for other women to say that they 'wouldn't have a problem' or that it is ok because 'there is a chaperone'.
This is not about the risk of assault, this is about dignity and comfort. If you feel uncomfortable with a male doctor, that should be validated by every woman on here. What about the sisterhood? Surely gone are the days of a patriarchal system which shames and bullies women? We are entitled to our boundaries - they are our bodies.
Having said that - there ARE risks with safety and an assault can be a small thing not necessarily noticed by a chaperone. There are hundreds of doctors who are predators - look at the case law or disciplinary notes. It is all a matter of public record. I have had it with those who would push women around in this way.
I had a creepy doctor when I was 18 who gave me unnecessary examinations (prior to a surgery) which I am sure he didn't need to do. I managed to say no to the worst, but looking back I wish I had been more confident.
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HB I cannot thank you enough for your post. My girl friends have been really dismissive of my concerns saying once you have children all dignity goes out the window. But I haven't had children! Plus, and I hadn't intended to mention it but I was so moved by what you said with so much empathy, when I was a little girl I had lots of problems with my 'twinkle ' as my friend calls it! I used to get terrible shooting pains up inside my vagina that went on for a few hours at a time. My mum used to be sat up all night with me. So off to the GP and it was a man. I may have been about 4/5 I think and although I didn't know what he was doing, I hated it. My mum was in the room too but I guess she thought he was just doing his job and maybe he was, but that was me dead set for life to never ever see a man again. When I was a teenager and along with my first period I had agonising pain and as the months went on it got worse until I was almost passing out. Mum called the GP but by then I'd told her no men. There were no female GPs at the practice either and I believe my mum spoke to her GP at an appointment she had and found that all the gynae specialists locally were also men. So that meant I did nothing and just took time off school, then work ( really affected that) up until menopause.
So I'm grateful to all you ladies for your on going help because all my girlfriends sailed through the menopause and cannot understand.
So today I saw a lady yaay!!!!
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I really feel for you mrsmitch. Only a few years ago when I needed examinations at the hospital, I was mortified to see a few male gynaecologists. I put up with them but hated it. Re HellsBells: many years ago when I was only 18 and at university I had bouts of thrush, cystitis. I went to the university male doctor and he examined me in a manner that I realise now ( and then) was inappropriate, with no nurse in the room. I was so young and no confidence he just got away with it.
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Suzy I'm really sorry you went through that. Why do we have to? It's just not right and women have been treated appallingly by the health service for too many years.
I think more needs to be done to make us more aware that we can say NO. That we want someone else to see us or question if something is really necessary. Just the same as more awareness of menopausal symptoms in general. I'm fed up if being told to just open a window if I'm hot, by other women.
I suspect you're affected for life now? I really do feel for you too.
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I was so bloody naive in those days. I let people walk all over me. Your friends have no right to be dismissive. It's sad to read of your childhood experiences. Thankfully there are more female gps around. I'm a bit tougher these days ( superficially!) and stick up for myself a bit more. Like you I've not had children.
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Mrs Mitch you are most welcome :)
I would also add that I have had 5 surgeries, 2 types of cancer (both gender/sex related) and I am a barrister who trained in medical law and taught it. I know far too many awful cases perhaps. I know the system well (NHS and private) from a personal and professional perspective. I will go into bat for anyone pushed around by medical professionals with a god complex.
I am not anti-men (my breast surgeon was the BEST) but I am pro choice when it comes to practitioners. The surgeon who saved my life was respectful and gentle. He talked to me on my level and did a great job. Equally I have been treated badly by other surgeons (one wanted to go nuts removing stuff to make it easier for him) who will not accept any challenge. If I get a whiff of misogyny, sexism or any bullying or patronising behaviour I will ask for a second opinion or a woman. The NHS is not free - all taxpayers contribute. We have the right to be treated with respect.
I am always amazed how women lack empathy for others regarding the menopause. It can become a competition, as if they are responsible for an easy ride, not that we are just unlucky genetically/chemically. It was the same with periods. "Oh I don't have any problems" as if they are somehow blessed among women. I had a nightmare and didn't find out until my 40s I had adenomyosis (not my fault!).
SORRY FOR THE RANT ALL. :hotflash:
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We are childless by choice. No one told me that being so would increase my % of getting cancer of any type. When I wanted to go on The Pill at 17, my GP said "What if my Religion didn't allow me to prescribe?" "You have 2 put your Religion and personal feelings to one side!" "Just like your Father" was the response. I got the prescription ;-).
I've worked with some medics usually male, who were lovely, took time etc.. Others ::). I didn't have any truck with those either ;-)
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I've been reading the thread with interest and remembering back to being a very young girl having an internal by female gynae at a famous teaching hospital in London. I was very nervous, I was only about 16 very shy and super naive. She did the examination and without warning called in a lot of young male students to look at the cervix. I have never forgotten the horrendous experience that today would be classed as abuse but from that day on it made me the woman I am today, I stand no nonsense from anyone and it made me very assertive.
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My goodness Ayesha, that must have been an horrendous experience. It shows that it is not a given that female health workers are preferable. It is really astounding how insensitive some people in authority can be.
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That is disgraceful. It makes me really angry to hear. Its not as if you could have got up and walked out when you're in that position.
I know things were very different, unfortunately, back then and you keep hearing stories like yours. And these experiences do shape the rest of our lives but I'm glad for you it's made you strong.
My maternal nana also lived with us when I was little and both her and my mum were from the generation that never questioned the 'professionals '. As a young adult I had learned this from them. Fortunately I'd never had any kind of treatment until my hysteroscopy.
The first time I put my foot down was when I called the GP to report that I was experiencing spotting. She said I would first need to come in for an examination and she wanted to take a swab and test for UTIs. I told her that was impossible as I have VA and I haven't had sex for over a year (or more!). She was still insisting so I said I could not bear the pain. She still insisted. So I just shouted ' what part of not having sex do you not understand!!".
You ladies on this forum have helped me be much more assertive.
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HB that's not a rant, it's the truth of your experiences. One of my regular customers is a bank nurse. The stories she tells are quite an eye opener about the NHS and the one thing she said that stands out, particularly in light of your comment: surgeons think they are god. She said they walk around with their massive egos expecting everyone to fawn over them and fall at their feet - the male ones, of course.
The consultant surgeon who did my hysteroscopy was a woman and really lovely. I certainly didn't see any ego and apparently the staff told me she's top in her field.
Humility is a beautiful but rare virtue.
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Thanks MrsMitch :)
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If you are not comfortable for what ever reason you absolutey should ring and discuss things.
I dont know if this would work for you as you said you were not comfortable talking so its obviously about more than exams..
But I have a male GP who is fantastic but even now 10 years down the line he will ask if i'd like him to get a femal collegaue to do the more personal exams and he will wait outside or behind curtain... I am OK with him but its a standard phrase that I am sure he utters regularly.
I wonder if the male gynae would have similar option? Although appreciate that may not be enough.
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I did have a male Gynae who was excellent but i also took medication (prescribed) to help me calm down, cope with anxiety and ptsd flashbacks before going to the appointment. Waited in the car park not the waiting room or a separate waiting area.. yep ive been sat in the corner of the staff room crying. Any exams were down with the aid of 'gas and air' so i was quite spaced out and not really aware. It is definitely worth talking to the clinic.