Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: Lisa M on March 21, 2024, 09:37:13 AM
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Hi all ,
I’ve been on several types of HRT for around 4 years . I’m 52. I’ve never really got on with it but battled through as we do thinking it must be helping! Anyway I’ve always been sensitive to progesterone and only recently realised that this has been the issue all along ! I was suffering with terrible anxiety, hot flushes , migraines , nausea , fatigue etc etc . I decided to half my Conti patch almost 2 weeks ago and within hrs felt better . This Monday I decided to go without and I am ASTOUNDED! I feel the best I have felt for years !! I’ve also introduced a magnesium tablet at bedtime for the past 2 weeks !! I’m sleeping through !! So moral of story is don’t always think HRT is helping , for some of us it really does not tick all the boxes! I’m curious to now look down the “ natural “ root and see how I get on .
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Hi Lisa M,
I am 55, nearly 56. I agree that HRT isn't the magic bullet for many of us. I have been having symptoms for 10 years apx and, having tried all sorts of different natural therapies and supplements, after 7 years reluctantly tried HRT (gel & utrogestan). It helped reduce or alleviate many of my symptoms, but because of my own wildly fluctuating hormones I was never able to get the balance right. I felt it was mainly the balance of progesterone that wasn't right, although I do also think I ended up on far too much oestrogen. I was on a sequi regime which I preferred as I was still having some bleeds, although the GPs were keen for me to be continuous (due to my age) which I tried but that didn't feel right.
I reduced my HRT doseage last year, gradually over the year, and when I got down to 1 pump of gel and 14 x 200mgs of utrogestan felt it was the "sweet spot". I finally came off it beginning of November. I felt fine for a month which was brilliant, but by January not only had many symptoms returned, I also gained some new ones including very very low mood which I have never suffered from. It was so bad I made the decision to go back on HRT at end of January (Evorel Conti 50) and within days my mood lifted and many symptoms reduced. I am nearly 2 months in and getting on better with the continuus patch than I expected, despite not being perfect. I may have to increase to a 75 patch to hit a couple of remaining symptoms but I will see as I don't want to introduce other ones due to too high oestrogen.
It is encouraging to hear that you feel so good after stopping HRT. All I would say is don't get despondent if your symptoms do return after a while. As many of the wise ladies on this forum have said it is worth trying different types of HRT to see what suits us as individuals. I definitely feel better (so far) with the progesterone in the patch than I did with Utrogestan which surprised me.
Personally I don't think HRT will ever allow me to be completely symptom free but at least it can reduce or alleviate many symptoms to make life slightly more bearable.
Good luck and let us know how you get on X
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Hi Lisa M,
I am 55, nearly 56. I agree that HRT isn't the magic bullet for many of us. I have been having symptoms for 10 years apx and, having tried all sorts of different natural therapies and supplements, after 7 years reluctantly tried HRT (gel & utrogestan). It helped reduce or alleviate many of my symptoms, but because of my own wildly fluctuating hormones I was never able to get the balance right. I felt it was mainly the balance of progesterone that wasn't right, although I do also think I ended up on far too much oestrogen. I was on a sequi regime which I preferred as I was still having some bleeds, although the GPs were keen for me to be continuous (due to my age) which I tried but that didn't feel right.
I reduced my HRT doseage last year, gradually over the year, and when I got down to 1 pump of gel and 14 x 200mgs of utrogestan felt it was the "sweet spot". I finally came off it beginning of November. I felt fine for a month which was brilliant, but by January not only had many symptoms returned, I also gained some new ones including very very low mood which I have never suffered from. It was so bad I made the decision to go back on HRT at end of January (Evorel Conti 50) and within days my mood lifted and many symptoms reduced. I am nearly 2 months in and getting on better with the continuus patch than I expected, despite not being perfect. I may have to increase to a 75 patch to hit a couple of remaining symptoms but I will see as I don't want to introduce other ones due to too high oestrogen.
It is encouraging to hear that you feel so good after stopping HRT. All I would say is don't get despondent if your symptoms do return after a while. As many of the wise ladies on this forum have said it is worth trying different types of HRT to see what suits us as individuals. I definitely feel better (so far) with the progesterone in the patch than I did with Utrogestan which surprised me.
Personally I don't think HRT will ever allow me to be completely symptom free but at least it can reduce or alleviate many symptoms to make life slightly more bearable.
Good luck and let us know how you get on X
Hi Dotty ,
Thanks so much for your reply . I’ve started feeling abit off these last few days so have made an appt with a gp . I’m just at a loss as what to do. I feel I need more oestrogen but I don’t want the prog :( .
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The GP has suggested the Mirena Coil for the progesterone. I know many ladies swear by it but I really don't like the idea of having something fitted. I have agreed to go on the waiting list while I try the patches. So far they have been much better than when i tried continuous utrogestan so I am hoping I can stick with these. I've had a couple of bleeds since I started but I'm hoping that is as a result of a new regime and that it will settle within the 6 month guideline. I am not convinced I am actually menopausal as y previous last bleed on sequi was August but because of my age the GPs are all determined to get me on conti. Are you definitely menopausal? When was your last period?
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Hi Dotty ,
Last period was Sept 2022. But I was on HRT at that time . I can’t have coil . I had a reaction to it and also it embedded itself so they said no more. I’m gonna give myself a month see what my “natural “ cycle without anything wants to do. It’s so so hard isn’t it ? My mum told me today she loved HRT and felt wonderful on it which really made me feel great haha! I know I can’t tolerate prog so I just don’t know . I’m gonna research natural remedies again . Ty for reply . Makes me feel less alone in this journey .
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Sorry to hear you are struggling with HRT. I think it's a good thing to come off it for a bit just to see "where you are". I did for 3 months as I wasn't sure whether it was my own fluctuating hormones or the HRT causing a variety of symptoms. I really wanted to be able to manage without it but it became unbearable.
I know several ladies on here have tried different regimes (long cycle with only a few days of progesterone) or different products (cyclogest?) but I have no experience of them personally.
I agree it can feel very lonely. Especially at a time where there is a lot of stuff going on in "normal" life with elderly parents and in an unsettled world. I find this forum a great support.
Hope you find the right solution X
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Hi Dotty ,
Last period was Sept 2022. But I was on HRT at that time . I can’t have coil . I had a reaction to it and also it embedded itself so they said no more. I’m gonna give myself a month see what my “natural “ cycle without anything wants to do. It’s so so hard isn’t it ? My mum told me today she loved HRT and felt wonderful on it which really made me feel great haha! I know I can’t tolerate prog so I just don’t know . I’m gonna research natural remedies again . Ty for reply . Makes me feel less alone in this journey .
Hi Lisa
I was wondering how you are doing Nd if you are still odd the HRT? If so, what are you doing instead to help feel okay? I am about to try for the third time to stop my estrogel / utrogrstan. I'm only on one pump of gel and it's fine, but I simply can't cope with the progesterone and i don't want to try a synthetic one. Both times I tried to stop the estrogen I went back on it within days. This time I'm hoping to do it with increased phytoestrogens in my diet, sea buckthorn for dryness and a change in my anti depressant to one which helps hot flashes. Would be great to hear how you're doing and what natural things you have tried?
Penguin x
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Hi ladies, I went cold turkey and stopped all hrt in December...due to thickened womb lining. So far I've not had to go back on it. I do suffer with symptoms but I had the same symptoms when I was on hrt,the only new one is the hot flushes. I don't think I ever seemed to get my dose right ...even after trying on and off for 10 years.
I too would be interested if anyone has any suggestions for alternatives.
I have just started using hyalofemme gel for VA ....early days but it seems ok, it does slightly burn at first (not painful though). Still use Yes products on the other days.
Also take a magnesium/calcium and vitamin D tablet and a high strength omega 3 for my dry eyes.
It's not easy trying to navigate through all of these issues is it.
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No ut certainly isn't. I find the gel in the green box from the optician good for dry eyes. What I find harder is that few days without estrogel and my mouth throat and respiratory tract seem to dry up too. I wake with a dry cough and then convince myself I have a lung problem. Water doesn't seem to fix it, perhaps I should try coconut water by the bed to sip overnight, that's very hydrating isn't it.
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Hi Penguin, the optician recommended Hycosan extra drops ...they're the red box. I think I've tried most eye drops and they seem to be one of the best(for me anyway), they are preservative free so don't irritate my eyes as much. Also use hycosan night gel before bed.
I've also had similar with the dry cough and struggled to breathe a couple of times....frightening first time as didn't realise it was menopause related. I have experienced as many issues whilst on HRT as without...like I said before I have never been able to get it right and since I had my scare I'm determined to stay off it 🤞
Coconut water might be worth a try or isn't there an aloe vera water, that might be another one to try.
The joy of being a woman eh?? 😂
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There neat aloe vera of which you have a tablespoon over and is absolutely great for silent reflux. And then the nicer tasting one which unfortunately has sugar in. I've got some of the first one in the fridge so I'll try that. Glad to know its not just me with the throat / cough thing, although I sympathise as well.
I'll try the red hycosan, they're probably the next level up. I wonder if I'll probably need vagifem as well, or go back to using yes vm as preventative before it gets dry.
I've stocked up on endamame beans and tofu for the phytoestrogens!
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Hi Ladies,
How are you all getting on after coming off HRT naturally?
I am on conti patches and want to know if you just cut them in 1/2 or how how we are supposed to come off it?
Tried before & palpitations occurred at night trying to sleep I do wake up at 4 am every morning since menopause
Now post meno not getting on with progesterone for years. I also get night sweats which started the waking at 4 am.
Look forward to your updates,
Ladybird :)
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I've never used patches so can't advise, but I came off sequential estrogel and utrogestan at the end of April and doing better than I was when on it. Less pmt too. I an seeing a private psychiatrist who has helped sort out my mental health and thar has made all the difference for me. I think the ssri I am on has also stopped the hot flashes coming back too. My sleep is fine, but I take 2mg melatonin each night so that probably helps too x
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Hi Penguin,
So good to know there is hope after taking HRT, as I do enjoy the Oestrogen part but a Hysterectomy is a very drastic action for a :o way to take it.
I am having Tofu tomorrow for phytoestrogens also need dry eye drops & take sea buckthorn even whilst on HRT so hope they will still be adequate?
I shall up dose of yes ::)
Not sure where to get melatonin is it a hormone are you in the UK?
Try to come off for a few months at least to see where I am.
So any other tips - all will be appreciated as it does feel very drastic!
Best wishes for the au natural journey all of us in it together!
LB :)
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Ladybird - if U find that if the moisturiser 'yes' isn't enough then do consider appropriate VA treatment. It's not the same as other replacements despite the info in the leaflet. It's a small amount of oestrogen replacement which helps to keep the vagina/vulval area soft and supple.
Well done Penguin! There are a few ADs that can ease hot flushes.
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Hi Penguin,
So good to know there is hope after taking HRT, as I do enjoy the Oestrogen part but a Hysterectomy is a very drastic action for a :o way to take it.
I am having Tofu tomorrow for phytoestrogens also need dry eye drops & take sea buckthorn even whilst on HRT so hope they will still be adequate?
I shall up dose of yes ::)
Not sure where to get melatonin is it a hormone are you in the UK?
Try to come off for a few months at least to see where I am.
So any other tips - all will be appreciated as it does feel very drastic!
Best wishes for the au natural journey all of us in it together!
LB :)
Melatonin helps your sleep / wake cycle. It is only available on prescription in the UK, but you can get it otc in the US, Singapore plus some European countries like Finland and Spain. I was getting it brought back for me, but my psychiatrist was happy to prescribe as its a lot less of an issue than a sleeping pill. I get a lovely 8 hours sleep now and don't know if that is the melatonin or the anti depressant.
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Hello ladies.
Penguin - I have been using HRT for about ten years but I have never felt good on it, or if I do feel better it is only temporary. I also take an AD , Venlafaxine also known as Effexor and this is supposed to help with sleep. I wonder if this is the same AD that you are using? I would be grateful to know if you have been prescribed something else which may be a better option.
I am currently using both HRT and an AD but still having issues, mainly anxiety, tiredness and low mood. I came off all HRT a few years ago and my VA symptoms increased and the frequent tearfulness turned into crying spells. I managed for a while but then went back on it. I often think of giving up on HRT again as I long for some emotional and physical stability!
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Hello ladies.
Penguin - I have been using HRT for about ten years but I have never felt good on it, or if I do feel better it is only temporary. I also take an AD , Venlafaxine also known as Effexor and this is supposed to help with sleep. I wonder if this is the same AD that you are using? I would be grateful to know if you have been prescribed something else which may be a better option.
I am currently using both HRT and an AD but still having issues, mainly anxiety, tiredness and low mood. I came off all HRT a few years ago and my VA symptoms increased and the frequent tearfulness turned into crying spells. I managed for a while but then went back on it. I often think of giving up on HRT again as I long for some emotional and physical stability!
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
Hi Kathleen
I take Fluoxetine (aka prozac) as I have health concern OCD as well as generalised anxiety. I hadn't realised it would help the flushes and had asked for the one that is well known for doing that, but the psychiatrist said that one is a hard one to come off of so wanted me to try fluoxetine first. The thing I was told and which has turned out to be true is that for OCD you need higher doses to stop the looping thoughts than with general anxiety. So I am on 40mg now, whereas with citalopram (the other ssri id tried via my GP), I'd only managed 10mg. I was also told fluoxetine is more of a stimulant than some other ssri meds, hence why he gave me the melatonin. I don't actually know now whether I still need the melatonin or not, so I'm going to try over the Christmas hols to stop taking it and see what happens. But the flushes going is defo down to the fluoxetine as melatonin wouldn't impact that. It is worth speaking to your GP to see if a change or ssri may be worth it, but please make sure they give you a toolkit to manage any initiation side effects.
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Thank you all for your very helpful information!
What is the advice for weaning off HRT is it 1/2 patch per week?
I will see if it is possible to get melatonin - at the moment I use Nytol which I believe is a antihistamine.
Many thanks,
LB :)
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Nytol :-X :sick02:
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Thank you all for your very helpful information!
What is the advice for weaning off HRT is it 1/2 patch per week?
I will see if it is possible to get melatonin - at the moment I use Nytol which I believe is a antihistamine.
Many thanks,
LB :)
You can get it online from the US from a company called Biovea. My son has adhd and the only melatonin here is the hard tablets that I take, but which he won't swallow. I was recommended Biovea because they do gummies. But I wouldn't take more than 2mg, anything above that is used for jet lag or serious sleep issues beyond hormonal insomnia. 2mg is what you'd get if you had it from a GP here but I think you'd be unlikely to get a GP to prescribe it and would need a psychiatrist.
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52 is early days...
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Hi Ladies,
Am interested to hear any updates on stopping HRT?
I have gradually reduced mine again to half a patch as I felt the HRT was causing more symptoms than helping. I am managing any/most niggly reoccuring symptoms that appear for a few days at a time in my "cycle". However I have recently been hit by a surge of anxiety and fuzzy headache (that I previously felt I got when I was on too much HRT) so I don't know whether this is a sign to try stopping again or a sign I need more. If I also had all the other symptoms that I've had previously eg insomnia to indicate I need more I would increase, but I haven't (at the moment).
Anyone know what the signs that the HRT is topping up your hormones too much?
Thanks
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Hi DottyD68
I've just noticed this post.
The first time I was estrogen dominant or not absorbing the progesterone my boobs were really really sore, (which I knew was an indication, for me anyway of too much estrogen) then I had a massive bleed.
I came off hrt for 3 months whilst they done scans and biopsy's and things and in March of this year I restarted hrt again, things were fine until October time, I had no sore boobs or anything but i had a really heavy bleed, I had a hysteroscopy and biopsy all fine, but I decided to stop the hrt on 1st November with no plan to go back on it.
I've since been using magnesium glycinate and night and trying stuff like guided therapy etc for sleep.
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Thanks for replying discogirl.
Good to hear it's going ok so far without HRT for you. My main reason for going on it (after 7 years of trying to manage wildly fluctuating symptoms/hormones) was because of terrible muscle pain/cramps in my thighs. I am quite sporty so for me that was debilitating and HRT has improved it. But since then 3.5 years ago, it feels like I just move from one new symptom to another as my hormones fluctuate. I feel like things settle for a month or two then I have a step change and either new symptoms appear or old ones reappear. The HRT has never really worked for me enough for it to be a gamechanger. I still don't understand how it can work successfully in perimenopause when your own hormones are fluctuating so much.
I am hoping to come off it again in the New Year, just to see what my own body is actually doing (rather than wonder if it is the HRT exacerbating things). I also have a couple of external stressors which I'm sure are affecting me and contributing to anxiety. But before I do stop HRT I need to get on top of an ongoing dry throat/dry cough issue which could be caused by a number of things....including low oestrogen ::)
It's just like one long brain-frazzling puzzle ;D
Happy New Year X
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Hi DottyD68
I understand how maddening fluctuating hormones must are. I also totally get one symptom seemingly gets resolved only to be replaced by another.
To be fair I would still be on hrt but I got fed up of bleeding, it was the third bleed I'd had.
My anxiety has been bad however I do have GAD as well.
I do hope you get sorted whatever you decide to do.
Happy New Year xxx
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Hello again ladies.
As I said before, I am tempted to come off HRT as I feel that I am on an emotional rollercoaster every day and it is exhausting.
My moods include tearfulness and feeling low and overwhelmed but I also have times when I feel back to normal, other times feel upbeat and optimistic. My trusty meno book says that moods swings from elation to despondency are common during the menopause so that is reassuring!
The last time I came off HRT several physical symptoms returned which I could cope with but the emotional symptoms were more extreme and I had many crying episodes. Nevertheless perhaps I should try again and push through in the hope that things settle.
My menopause nurse said she thought that I just wanted to be on an even keel, you can say that again!
Wishing you well ladies and take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen,
Have just seen your last post. Just an update. I was down to half a patch for several weeks then a couple of weeks ago I stopped the patches to see where I stand.
It is very early days but, so far, mentally I feel much better. Less stressed, anxious and panicky. Not thinking about the HRT in itself just helps me and stops me over-analysing myself all the time.
Physically I have felt good. The only symptom I have is waking in the early hours and not properly going back to sleep. I'm not sure if that is my own hormones (or lack of them) or my husband inadvertently waking me when he gets up for the loo! I will see how that goes.
Although this forum is a fantastic help I have stopped reading it so often as I was finding it was feeding my health anxiety and making me question everything even more. I still check in every so often but not so much, which also reduces my stress.
I hope whatever you decide to do you start to feel better. I will update again at some point. X
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Hello DottyD68
Thank you so much for your response.
I agree that worrying about the effect of the HRT has become another stress that I can do without!
This forum has been very helpful to me over the years but I can understand that all the information can feel overwhelming at times and taking a break is a good idea.
Thanks again and I look forward to reading your updates when you feel ready to post them.
Take care.
K.
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I have been on HRT oestrogen gel since September last year.
I started off on 2 pumps a day plus 1 progesterone tablet every evening. The progesterone was due to having had a subtotal hysterectomy last year so I needed progesterone when taking HRT.
The 2 pumps didn't work completely so at my review appointment my GP suggested I try 3 pumps of HRT gel a day plus the progesterone. I very quickly realised that 3 pumps of oestrogen or the 2 progesterone were affecting my mental gealth so I started reducing the amount of HRT and progesterone. Went back down to 2 pumps of oestrogen for a few weeks and then a few weeks ago I reduced down to 1 pump of HRT and 1 progesterone as i decided to see if I could manage without HRT if I msde lifestyle changes.
When I started reducing the HRT gel, I also started making lifestyle changes so I really made sure that my diet is as healthy as possible and I'm getting the correct nutrients to keep my body healthy without HRT