Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Talli on February 10, 2024, 10:14:14 AM
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Hi everyone, sorry to post of this has already been covered but I recently started HRT (Lenzetto and Utrogestan 200mg a night)
I took one spray in the morning for two nights and two Utrogestan tablets at night as directed by GP but had horrific anxiety and a feeling of being wired and can’t settle.
I suffer with quite bad anxiety anyway and the surge in feelings was awful so I stopped but I’m still feeling the symptoms now a week later.
Is this normal? I’m panicking now :(
Wish I’d never tried it. Could just two days of it affect me this badly?
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What were your periods doing B4 U began replacement it may be that the regime has triggered your hormones to react. Why did U begin HRT?
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Hello, thank you so much for your reply.
My periods were fairly regular, getting slightly longer and lighter but nothing significant.
GP had been wanting me to start HRT for a long time because of atrophy and problems with penetration (sorry tmi) and anxiety so I finally tried it and now I feel awful.
I also take gabapentin for awful bladder pain and peeing issues
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Well nowt is too much info on here.
Some require VA treatment as well as HRT to keep symptoms under control.
Your GP could prescribe localised vaginal atrophy treatment if there are no contraindications. The idea is that we insert 'vagifem', or 'ovestin' [prescribed] every night for 2-3 weeks and then as necessary. Some ladies require nightly insertion every night, others manage symptoms with every 3rd and 5/6th night with the occasional top ups.
A moisturiser may help too, I use either extra 'ovestin' around the labia or KY Jelly. There are 'yes' and 'sylc' too which seem to help.
VA mimics repeated urine infection-type symptoms really really well. So medics still don't consider VA as a reason for intense need to P etc.. I use a pain relief to ease the nip as the urine flow shuts off.
'gina' is available in Boots for ladies over 50 if you can get to a Pharmacy, otherwise do ring your surgery on Monday to ask for VA treatment. U don't require an exam or blood tests. There is also a book "Me and My Menopausal Vagina", written by a Forum Member which is a good read! Let us know how you get on, all is not lost!
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Thank you so much.
I currently use Vagifem every night and also Ovestin on the outside which really helps.
I also use Yes moisturiser everyday so they are being very helpful.
I am seeing a psychosexual therapist for the pain too and am on Gabapentin for bladder issues.
I also have CFS and other health issues.
I was reluctant to use the systemic HRT but the GP fairly insisted :-\
Anyway, do you think only taking it for two days could have caused such a surge in symptoms?
Thank you again so much for replying. I feel very lost rn
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It may well have over-ridden your own hormones. Why would a GP 'insist' ....... although if U are already using VA treatments then he/she may think that systemic will possibly help with the atrophy.
I would stop the regime for a week to allow your body to settle. It may be too much too soon or U may not require that regime. Some find that keeping a mood/food/symptom diary of use.
U could put the products names: individually: into the search box to read threads that pop up, make notes.
Has it been suggested that U use a dilator which may help the pain?
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It can make you feel worse if either the dose isn't right or you use something that disagrees with you. It can take several days to return to normal but it won't last forever. Did you anxiety arrive with peri or is it a longstanding issue? Mine was from oestrogen deficiency and went completely after 3 months on hrt so imo it's worth persevering to get it right. If you want to try again I'd suggest starting on a very low dose of oestrogen and no utrogeston. As you're peri you should be on a sequi regime anyway so you take it only days 15-26 of your cycle. Too much oestrogen can cause your symptoms but so can utrogeston and this way you'll know which is the culprit and can change accordingly.
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tnx sheila99
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I think your problem is too little oestrogen and too much progesterone.
I used Lenzetto several years ago and although I liked the user friendly application, I found it very weak and my symptoms returned. Even when I worked up to three sprays every day, it was only giving me the same oestrogen blood level as one pump of Oestrogel.
200mg Utrogestan is far too high a dose for that level of oestrogen so I'm not surprised it isn't working. I would increase the Lenzetto and reduce the Utrogestan to 100mg and use it vaginally because it has fewer side effects.
It sounds like you need some topical oestrogen cream if you have atrophy and bladder problems. Something like Ovestin which I think you can buy over the counter and without a prescription in the UK now.
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It may well have over-ridden your own hormones. Why would a GP 'insist' ....... although if U are already using VA treatments then he/she may think that systemic will possibly help with the atrophy.
I would stop the regime for a week to allow your body to settle. It may be too much too soon or U may not require that regime. Some find that keeping a mood/food/symptom diary of use.
U could put the products names: individually: into the search box to read threads that pop up, make notes.
Has it been suggested that U use a dilator which may help the pain?
Thank you I will do that.
I stopped after a few days but I’m still feeling awful.
I’ve had quite extreme mental health issues in the past including se*f h**m and this brought all those feelings back.
I’m terrified of trying anything like it again :-\
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It can make you feel worse if either the dose isn't right or you use something that disagrees with you. It can take several days to return to normal but it won't last forever. Did you anxiety arrive with peri or is it a longstanding issue? Mine was from oestrogen deficiency and went completely after 3 months on hrt so imo it's worth persevering to get it right. If you want to try again I'd suggest starting on a very low dose of oestrogen and no utrogeston. As you're peri you should be on a sequi regime anyway so you take it only days 15-26 of your cycle. Too much oestrogen can cause your symptoms but so can utrogeston and this way you'll know which is the culprit and can change accordingly.
Thank you for your reply :)
I’ve had long standing mental health issues since I was a child, quite serious ones, and all those feelings back so I’m pretty terrified of trying anything again.
I was on a 15 day on 15 day off cycle but I only managed a few days until it was just too much for me :(
I dont feel I can go through that again.
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I think your problem is too little oestrogen and too much progesterone.
I used Lenzetto several years ago and although I liked the user friendly application, I found it very weak and my symptoms returned. Even when I worked up to three sprays every day, it was only giving me the same oestrogen blood level as one pump of Oestrogel.
200mg Utrogestan is far too high a dose for that level of oestrogen so I'm not surprised it isn't working. I would increase the Lenzetto and reduce the Utrogestan to 100mg and use it vaginally because it has fewer side effects.
It sounds like you need some topical oestrogen cream if you have atrophy and bladder problems. Something like Ovestin which I think you can buy over the counter and without a prescription in the UK now.
Thank you that’s really interesting to know!
At the moment I’m too scared to try it again as it made me feel close to my old, very unwell mentally, self.
I already have Vagifem prescribed and Ovestin which I use nightly.
I think maybe I just do t need it yet or it’s the wrong dose as you say. I’m just too scared to try it again now.
I can’t believe just a few days of it could make me feel so bad :o
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Also, it’s worth me mentioning that I’ve had significant vaginal atrophy including total labial re-absorbtion since I was in my early 30’s and I’m 41 now (I’ve been receiving treatment for about 10 years) and I’m still having regular periods etc so I’d be surprised if it was caused only by menopause which is what I’m trying to get the GPs to understand. They just keep saying it’s menopause but I’m not sure if it is only that causing it. No doubt it’s complicating the situation but I do t think it’s the only culprit. I just feel lost now.
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It's actually peri-menopause ::) - those years leading up the last bleed = menopause. Though we are told to wait 12 months without a bleed to be certain, even then Mother Nature can throw the curved ball >:( ::)
It doesn't take much for the old brain to begin it's cycle of what ifs etc..
Who is over-seeing your on-going vaginal/vulval problems? If it's your GP: many lack knowledge about peri etc.: U may benefit from an appt with a dedicated menopause clinic, there are waiting lists for both private and NHS clinics. Your local Hospital may have a clinic, might be worth looking on the websites.
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It's actually peri-menopause ::) - those years leading up the last bleed = menopause. Though we are told to wait 12 months without a bleed to be certain, even then Mother Nature can throw the curved ball >:( ::)
It doesn't take much for the old brain to begin it's cycle of what ifs etc..
Who is over-seeing your on-going vaginal/vulval problems? If it's your GP: many lack knowledge about peri etc.: U may benefit from an appt with a dedicated menopause clinic, there are waiting lists for both private and NHS clinics. Your local Hospital may have a clinic, might be worth looking on the websites.
Thanks:)
It is the menopause specialist nurse at my clinic. She’s an ANP and she won’t refer me to menopause clinic as she feels if I just took the HRT I’d be ok.
Two other Drs have suggested it to her but she over rides them each time saying I just need HRT :/
Would peri go on for over ten years? I thought ten was the maximum it could take and it’s been over they now since I’ve had these issues?
Two specialist DRs at GUM plus my psychosexual therapist feel there is more going on than peri and have written to the nurse and told her but she insists that HRT will ‘save the day’
I’m not convinced.
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Neither am I and when can a Nurse over-rule a GP? I would ask a GP to refer me to a dedicated menopause clinic as well as asking the Practice Manager which Courses this nurse has attended. i.e. has she been to work with Dr Louise Newson for example.
In the meantime, ring a clinic to see whether you can self refer.
Who over sees your mental health and other medical issues? A GP?
We shouldn't have to fight for treatment but there is no longer a holistic approach :-\
[what's ANP ? ]. Let u s know how you get on
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I wrote a big reply and it it was deleted :/
Poop haha!!
Anyway a ANP is just a Advanced Nurse Practitioner :)
My mental health issues have only been addressed as a side issue at other apps.
I was prescribed fluoxetine but that made me extremely anxious too and my heart felt like it was going to burst. I phoned them and told them and they said I was having a reaction to them and I was to stop them immediately. They gave me propranolol for my heart which has helped. She was really nice actually but for meno stuff they always refer you to this particular ANP.
It’s just super annoying that it’s this hard to get people to just help you.
I reckon this meno nurse will pooh pooh my symptoms because they came on so fast and have lasted so long after just taking them for such a short time.
I start to doubt myself in the end and can’t face any of them.
Anyway, sorry to whinge and thank you for listening. I really appreciate it X
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U whinge away. An Advanced Nurse Practitioner does not make her knowledgeable about menopause unless she's been on a course/s. ::)
Propranolol taken at night to ease early morning anxiety surges helped a lot otherwise I would wake terrified.
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I think your problem is too little oestrogen and too much progesterone.
I used Lenzetto several years ago and although I liked the user friendly application, I found it very weak and my symptoms returned. Even when I worked up to three sprays every day, it was only giving me the same oestrogen blood level as one pump of Oestrogel.
200mg Utrogestan is far too high a dose for that level of oestrogen so I'm not surprised it isn't working. I would increase the Lenzetto and reduce the Utrogestan to 100mg and use it vaginally because it has fewer side effects.
It sounds like you need some topical oestrogen cream if you have atrophy and bladder problems. Something like Ovestin which I think you can buy over the counter and without a prescription in the UK now.
Thank you that’s really interesting to know!
At the moment I’m too scared to try it again as it made me feel close to my old, very unwell mentally, self.
I already have Vagifem prescribed and Ovestin which I use nightly.
I think maybe I just do t need it yet or it’s the wrong dose as you say. I’m just too scared to try it again now.
I can’t believe just a few days of it could make me feel so bad :o
Talli, sorry, I can now see you mentioned you are already using a topical oestrogen for the VA and bladder issues.
I can understand your reluctance to continue with HRT after such a bad experience. It might be worth having some blood tests to get an idea of your hormone levels. My hormones started dropping off when I was in my mid 30s and you could be similar. I started to experience anxiety and panic attacks when my progesterone levels fell away in my 30s and then later aged 43, I started having silent migraines. I was post menopause by the age of 44. You could be same in which case you are a fair way through the menopause by now.
My experience with Utrogestan was so bad I thought I had suddenly developed progesterone intolerance but it was just a bad reaction to it. I found the ill effects of it hung around for a long time after the final capsule. Now I find progesterone to be beneficial as long as I don't go above the magical 50mg. Do you have any history of PMS or progesterone intolerance?
You could continue with the Lenzetto only for a few weeks just to see if you can tolerate it. That would also eliminate the Utrogestan.
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Hi Talli,
I have chronic multifactorial fatigue (Adrenal fatigue) due to chronic stress, long standing complex mental health issues; including anxiety, extra demands of peri-menopause/menopause and over exercising when symptoms had started.
I think the hormonal changes around the peri-menopause/menopause can exacerbate existing health conditions.
I am 51 and recently started cyclical HRT. I noticed a signficant improvement in my mood on Everel 50 (Oestrogen) within 2 days. However, I experienced some unpleasant side effects on the Utrogestan; including feeling very depressed and stopped the HRT after the first month. I wasn't able to tolerate a further reduction in my mood due to my current circumstances.
I saw a nurse at private menopause clinic. She suggested taking the Everel 50 on it's own for a month before introducing the Utrogestan or another form of progesterone.
I have heard that HRT can help women whom have fatigue related conditons.
I would see if you can get a referral to a NHS Menopause clinic. It may be that you need to get your levels of oestrogen up before introducing the progesterone part.
I am working with a Naturopath Re: Fatigue related condition.
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U whinge away. An Advanced Nurse Practitioner does not make her knowledgeable about menopause unless she's been on a course/s. ::)
Propranolol taken at night to ease early morning anxiety surges helped a lot otherwise I would wake terrified.
Thanks CLKD :) I’ll try the propranolol at night. I’ve been taking it in the day as my heart rate has been 110 bpm.
I know that’s not exceptionally high but it’s high for me, I’m normally around 65-80.
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I think your problem is too little oestrogen and too much progesterone.
I used Lenzetto several years ago and although I liked the user friendly application, I found it very weak and my symptoms returned. Even when I worked up to three sprays every day, it was only giving me the same oestrogen blood level as one pump of Oestrogel.
200mg Utrogestan is far too high a dose for that level of oestrogen so I'm not surprised it isn't working. I would increase the Lenzetto and reduce the Utrogestan to 100mg and use it vaginally because it has fewer side effects.
It sounds like you need some topical oestrogen cream if you have atrophy and bladder problems. Something like Ovestin which I think you can buy over the counter and without a prescription in the UK now.
Thank you that’s really interesting to know!
At the moment I’m too scared to try it again as it made me feel close to my old, very unwell mentally, self.
I already have Vagifem prescribed and Ovestin which I use nightly.
I think maybe I just do t need it yet or it’s the wrong dose as you say. I’m just too scared to try it again now.
I can’t believe just a few days of it could make me feel so bad :o
Talli, sorry, I can now see you mentioned you are already using a topical oestrogen for the VA and bladder issues.
I can understand your reluctance to continue with HRT after such a bad experience. It might be worth having some blood tests to get an idea of your hormone levels. My hormones started dropping off when I was in my mid 30s and you could be similar. I started to experience anxiety and panic attacks when my progesterone levels fell away in my 30s and then later aged 43, I started having silent migraines. I was post menopause by the age of 44. You could be same in which case you are a fair way through the menopause by now.
My experience with Utrogestan was so bad I thought I had suddenly developed progesterone intolerance but it was just a bad reaction to it. I found the ill effects of it hung around for a long time after the final capsule. Now I find progesterone to be beneficial as long as I don't go above the magical 50mg. Do you have any history of PMS or progesterone intolerance?
You could continue with the Lenzetto only for a few weeks just to see if you can tolerate it. That would also eliminate the Utrogestan.
Thank you for your reply!
Yes maybe I’ll try the Lenzetto on its own for a bit although the anxiety and feeling of being wired started a few hours after my first spray.
I’m struggling to understand how it could have affected me so badly so fast when I was excited and happy about trying it!
If I’d been worried I’d have thought it was just me being nervous but I wasn’t!
Yes also I might ask for a hormone panel if they’ll do it to see what’s going on.
Maybe I don’t need HRT yet? But the Drs feel I do because of having such bad atrophy that my labia have been reabsorbed.
I’m just so confused about it all :-\
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Hi Talli,
I have chronic multifactorial fatigue (Adrenal fatigue) due to chronic stress, long standing complex mental health issues; including anxiety, extra demands of peri-menopause/menopause and over exercising when symptoms had started.
I think the hormonal changes around the peri-menopause/menopause can exacerbate existing health conditions.
I am 51 and recently started cyclical HRT. I noticed a signficant improvement in my mood on Everel 50 (Oestrogen) within 2 days. However, I experienced some unpleasant side effects on the Utrogestan; including feeling very depressed and stopped the HRT after the first month. I wasn't able to tolerate a further reduction in my mood due to my current circumstances.
I saw a nurse at private menopause clinic. She suggested taking the Everel 50 on it's own for a month before introducing the Utrogestan or another form of progesterone.
I have heard that HRT can help women whom have fatigue related conditons.
I would see if you can get a referral to a NHS Menopause clinic. It may be that you need to get your levels of oestrogen up before introducing the progesterone part.
I am working with a Naturopath Re: Fatigue related condition.
Thank you for replying. :)
Yes perhaps the hormone changes are making the CFS/IC/Fibro etc worse :/
I feel like you did when you said you tolerate a further reduction in your mood and it’s making just want to abandon the whole HRT thing.
I’m in the middle of getting my dose of Gabapentin right and possibly introducing Solfenacin at the end of the week for my bladder issues and I just do t feel like I can be bothered with the HRT now.
Although I need to make an app because I need a repeat for the Ovestin which is helping the outside.
I’m scared of phoning for an app about it though because I’m worried the nurse will be cross that I didn’t give the systemic a good enough go.
She said use it for 3 months and don’t let the side effects put me off but honestly I just couldn’t bear it. :(
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Hi Talli,
Thanks for your reply. I think a lot of women stop HRT quite abruptly if they don't tolerate it! I've stopped the HRT for the time being. I feel a lot better than when I was on the Utrogestan. I will probably try it again at some point in the next month or so.
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That’s interesting Anonymous.
I’m feeling better now I’m not on the HRT.
But…ha ha bit of an update to the whole saga! (Prepare for TMI)
I got my period this morning, first one since stopping HRT and it’s awful!
The consistency was like water and instead of starting slowly bit by bit it just flooded!
Went everywhere. It was down my legs and on the floor and everything. Almost like I imagine it would be if my waters broke! :o
So sorry for the graphic description but it’s never been like that before!
Is this normal peri or could the Utro still be in my system two weeks after stopping it and be affecting it?
I’m also on Gabapentin for bladder pain and have recently upped my dose on advice from GP but I don’t think that could affect period could it?
Boy am I fed up of all this stuff :-\