Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: kathryn22 on January 03, 2024, 01:44:16 PM
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Hello Ladies
Any suggestions for effective pain relief for Atrophy.
Usually pop paracetamol 2 every four hours. Can’t take anti inflammatory meds have Zapain but this bungs me up which aggravates my prolapse.
Usually have to lie down and wait for things to pass, but taking longer and longer Don’t think it’s the vaginal meds I’m using, been on them for a good few months now.
Thing is it’s not pain ??? It’s discomfort But whatever you call it it’s driving me nuts. Gp said she’d give me tranquillisers/ anti depressants.Not exactly the direction I want to go in. Get the impression the GP is clutching at straws. All suggestions gratefully received…
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I am not sure that pain killers can help much with vaginal atrophy, have you tried co-codamol? If I have bad muscle pain I take 1 paracetamol and 1 co-codamol which helps.
After a few months of VA treatment you should be feeling a lot better, what is your regime to get it under control?
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Your GP needs to refer you to a dedicated menopause clinic, there are waiting lists in both NHS and Private. Or see if there is a Nurse Practitioner with more peri-menopause knowledge.
Have you been prescribed appropriate vaginal atrophy treatment to use nightly?
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Hi Ayesha & CLKD
Am using Estriol cream every other night or every night when things are unbearable and in between YES moisturiser. Been on meds for a good few months now. Good days and bad ones, as we all know, sadly still more bad than good. I’m post menopause..ish, although even after 15 yrs still have some symptoms. I was on estraderm patches for the first 10yrs, but GP took me off as she said I had been on them long enough. Was a bit like jumping off a cliff as I went into a full blown menopause almost overnight,!!
Ayesha, will try mixing up the meds might help
CLKD, seeing a gynaecologist on Monday via a private health plan, hopefully he might be able to get me access to a menopause specialist, although seeing him for prolapse not Atrophy but he might be interested, otherwise it’s back to the GP again
Thanks ladies
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U may B lucky in that the Gynae has a menopause knowledge. Let us know how you get on.
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Will do
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Hoe long have you been using Vaginal estrogen, took me over a year to stop having bad days 😪 some women are lucky and it works quicker, for me it didn't. There's nothing worse than being constantly aware of you vagina and feeling discomfort down there xxx
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A hypertonic pelvic floor can cause vulval discomfort and pain. You could get an assessment from a women's pelvic health physiotherapist (private or NHS). This might help to find out exactly what is going on and can be treated without drugs if it emanates from the PF.
JP x
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Thank you JoaniePat & Cara 999
Will look into that assessment
Cara, Have been using Estriol for a few months ??maybe 4 months and yes, it’s odd how you don’t notice something till it won’t stop bothering you, then it’s just a brainworm that won’t go away
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Any distraction can help the brainworm.
You may find that you are offered low dose amitripyline for any pain. I found that it didn't work and the gynae who offered it to me wasn't greatly reassuring that it would but said worth a try. You can get constipated on amitriptyline which you generally want to avoid with any prolapse.
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I agree with the distraction although its quite difficult to distract yourself when tje discomfort is constant. I remember trying meditation and walking 🚶♀️. It will get better xxx
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Kathryn, just to check, are you on the generic Estriol cream or are you on Ovestin? If it's the former, then Ovestin could give you more relief as it is is a stronger concentration of the same cream.
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Hi Kathryn, I have atrophy that I ended up diagnosing myself after reading on this forum. I had it for 12 agonising years prior to that without 1 GP or gynae correctly diagnosing it.
For me it takes oestrogen pessaries initially every night for at least 3 weeks and then 5 nights a week. But my GP says she cannot prescribe it that frequently and has put me on the waiting list for a menopause specialist. I've been waiting over 12 months and still no apt but things have escalated recently and had to have tests at hospital in through the gynae so once I have results I hope to have a proper consultation and get the atrophy sorted.
One thing that really helps when it's very bad is to shower in cold water, air dry and then use local anesthetic cream both internally and externally. It stings like crazy for about 30 seconds but once it works it does seem to calm everything down, sometimes easing it for a day or two. The prospect of the stinging makes me reluctant to use it tbh but I grit my teeth and get on with it because its worth it.
I have to get my extra pessaries at Boots (Gina) as I cannot get enough for my dose on prescription yet, but I've even resorted to using 2 a night for 4 days when I get a bad flare up. I use one high up in my vagina and one just inside because if I don't then just one tablet in the middle never helps all the areas that need it.
For me the cream doesn't work as well all though I do also use it externally 3 times a week. Dr Currie says both shouldn't be necessary but for me it is.
Hope that helps. You can buy local anaesthetic cream online - my GP prescribes it simply because the gynae I once saw wanted to see if it enabled me to have sex without pain while she was at a loss as to what I was suffering from, which it did, so she asked my GP to leave it on repeat. Honestly when it kicks in the relief is so good!
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Hi Diamonds & Pearls
On the generic estriol (probably the cheapest option) going to ask for Ovestin if things don’t improve soon.
You have to use such a massive amount everytime and it always falls out in a lump the next morning at first pee so although I’m sure some is absorbed seems a messy waste of time
Thanks for the advice
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Hi MrsMitch
I too have diagnosed myself with vaginal atrophy but maybe I don't have that? - it's just painful when I have sex and does appear a bit dry. What is the name of the anaesthetic cream that you use? How often do you use it? so it may help me with my issue of painful sex?
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Hi Mrs Mitch
OMG you seem to have had such a horrible time. It’s so cruel the way women are impacted by this awful condition and it seems such an under researched condition with nobody seeming interested in taking it on. I’m sure you have had many dark days over the years trying to find a solution Thing is I suppose as the NHS lists get longer and the specialists more and more loaded the last thing they’re interested in is a long term condition with no obvious fix so we’re left to suffer My GP was initially sympathetic but now just prescribing the same old stuff with no interest in looking for anything else I hope that if she ever gets this condition she’ll still be practicing and maybe be more empathetic As I’ve said in previous posts one day hopefully they’ll be a breakthrough and we can all just pop a pill (orally) and that will be that
I hope you get some answers soon Thank you for your reply
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Kathryn, l hope the Ovestin helps, it's 10 times stronger than the estriol (which does nothing in my experience!) You can't over apply Ovestin, the usual advice is to use it every day for 2 x weeks and then a couple of times a week but you can in fact use it every day if you wish.
Also, can you go back on systemic hrt? There's no such thing as being on it too long, the NICE guidelines say there is no cut off point so make sure you insist on it if you wish to restart.
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Hi Diamonds & Pearls
Others have told me Ovestin is stronger so think I will ask for it. Been thinking of going back onto HRT patches, Estraderm as well, never had any problems with them and it was the GP that took me off .I think it was the old thought process that said you could only be on them for a limited time and things have changed now I wonder if I’d stayed on them then this wouldn’t have happened But it’s like with the whole condition there’s a lot of things you find out when it’s too late, nobody mentioned an early hysterectomy, followed by early menopause, followed by plummeting hormones,followed by being taken off HRT could lead to atrophy But now suprise suprise your told “Oh, didn’t you realise” I mean, if I’d realised I would have made different choices!!
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Kathryn, l continue to be horrified at the lack of knowledge displayed by doctors and the incorrect advice and information that many women have received over things related to menopause, vaginal atrophy, hrt and everything that affects women during menopause and beyond. It's a scandal really, you can bet if men suffered hormonally a cure would be found asap!
I do hope the Ovestin helps and do insist on the patches too, l am sure this combination will make all the difference. Fingers crossed for you!
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Hi Fiftyplus. You probably do have atrophy as it seems very common. Mine began in about 2008 long before any other menopause symptoms, which didn't start until 2020. I noticed a slightly sore patch high up in my vagina during sex, to begin with. By 2012 ish it had become impossible to have sex and the pain was both the whole of my vagina and all my vulva, clitoris, everywhere and by then was excruciating.
The cream us LMX 4 - 4% lidocaine. Its fantastic but do be warned, the stinging when first applied is bad but in the end the relief if bliss. My gynae was telling me I had vulvadynia and I didn't agree so she said using the cream prior to sex would prove she was right as nerve pain cannot be eased with the cream. In the end I was right. So I apply it a couple of minutes before sex, just cover your finger on it and get it inside, then put some outside wherever you need it. You don't need loads, just experiment until you get the right amount of pain relief. I get hubby to put some on his you know what too (tee hee) because it makes sure you'll get some high up in your vagina. For us, it means we can still have a sex life which is great. Just search for it online.
With regards to any other time, perhaps just a little externally if you get pain wearing clothes etc or if you're having a bad day. Other than that, save it for just sex and the odd few hours of relief. Hope it helps you.
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Thanks MrsMitch for replying - your info is much appreciated. I have only been using Ovestin a couple months but always on the lookout for a plan B for if it doesn't work, as I don't want to give up my sex life just yet and neither does hubby. Amazing for you that the cream works, we have to do what we have to do, eh. I was totally unware of all this and had never heard of it until I came on here - so glad I did. I coped with peri and all the other meno symptoms and thought I was through it and then VA struck so imo the last sympton has been the worst for me.
You have had a truly rotten time having suffered this for over 15 years! Thanks again for sharing :thankyou: and sending virtual hugs your way :foryou: Lots of Luv 50+ xx
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Thank you Fiftyplus hugs to you too. If I can help in any other way with how to manage VA, give me a shout xx
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Hi Kathryn, thanks for your reply. I go from being upset that there is so little knowledge of our conditions to being livid! I do agree if men suffered from it, all the remedies would be freely available to them.
The first GP I saw for VA was a locum and straight away she gave me oestrogen pessaries and told me to use them for 4 weeks along with a mild steroid cream. Everything settled down really well. When I went back to the GP following this she was no longer there and in spite of telling the GP how effective treatment had been, she just said to see how things went and said I wouldn't need any more treatment 🤦♀️. Of course things came back quickly and I spoke to her again and she said there was nothing more that could be done! I didn't know what I had, she didn't tell me what it could be but surely the fact oestrogen worked should have told her?
That led me down a path of misdiagnosis for all these years in spite of telling everyone I saw that the oestrogen had worked. I even argued with the gynae because of frustration of her not being able to get my diagnosis correct, asking if she could prescribe the pessaries as they had worked. She said I was too young for it to be connected to the menopause- at 50 by then.
What do we have to do to get help? It really is shameful in this day and age.
I do hope you get things under control because I'm still not on a high enough dose of pessaries and I believe the longer things go untreated the less likely you are to ever be pain free, you can only manage the pain.
Sending a ton of empathy your way.
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Thank you MrsMitch
Your understanding reply is so appreciated It’s comforting to have the opportunity to be in touch with like minded sufferers, especially when you don’t have a network of female friends, even my sisters, who are both older than me, have no knowledge of the condition and hopefully never will, so it’s a very isolating and isolating experience
Due to see the gynae guy on Monday. Will post the outcome
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The first GP I saw for VA was a locum and straight away she gave me oestrogen pessaries and told me to use them for 4 weeks along with a mild steroid cream. Everything settled down really well. When I went back to the GP following this she was no longer there and in spite of telling the GP how effective treatment had been, she just said to see how things went and said I wouldn't need any more treatment 🤦♀️. Of course things came back quickly and I spoke to her again and she said there was nothing more that could be done!
I scream at my computer when I read posts like this on the forum. Disgusting attitude and lack of medical knowledge in relation to Vaginal Atrophy. Knowing what I know now I would be telling the GP what treatment is necessary for me and the dosage and I would brook no argument!
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Hi Ayesha, isn't it so sad the forum is full of ladies suffering because the people who we go to for help seem to know nothing about the conditions we have?
I toy with the idea of emailing the gynae I saw who misdiagnosed me as well, to tell her I have VA. I asked her if my problems were menopausal and she said no. She refused to prescribe the pessaries and referred me back to the GP when she couldn't successfully treat the condition she said I had but didn't. Just simply to let her know it is VA in the hope she doesn't misdiagnose any more poor ladies.
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I wouldn't wish VA on my worst enemy and I will never get over the shock of the symptoms I suffered from at over 70, totally ignorant of what was happening to me, as were the nurses at my surgery, they hadn't a clue. One senior male GP at my surgery took pity on me and eventually told me to make an appointment with the lady GP who happened to be a gynae and what a blessing she was!
I would be inclined to copy some quotes from research papers or even comments from here and let her know about a condition that she might find herself suffering from in the future and from an early age if she is that unlucky.
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I agree with the distraction although its quite difficult to distract yourself when tje discomfort is constant. I remember trying meditation and walking 🚶♀️. It will get better xxx
I've found Jon Kabak-Zinn Mindfulness Meditation for Pain Relief useful. I've got CDs but he may be 'elsewhere' nowadays.
Strangely listening to a CD of Richard Burton reading Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas helps too especially at night. Think it's the lyrical nature of it and Richard Burton's voice.