Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: sfreesto on December 28, 2023, 06:04:35 AM
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Good morning ladies,
I’d love to hear if anyone can share some good news stories about vaginal atrophy/GSM please? Has anyone found treatment that has enabled them to be pain free and have a normal functioning (even have sex!) vagina, vulva and urinary tract? Please share - it is a dark and lonely place.
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Hi there
Firstly I want to send you some love because I know how utterly miserable this is.
Ive been struggling with this for a while. I recently had a horrible flare up and I couldn’t think of anything else so I wanted to let you know that you’re not alone.
Here’s some things that have helped me l
1. I only use bleach free toilet roll and sanitary towels.
2. I only wash down there with aqueous cream.
3. I use dove scent free shower gel on the rest of my body and never let that near my vagina.
4. I wash my hair over the bath and only ever have a shower no baths
5. Every time I go to the loo I pat gently never wipe and apply v magic organic cream or olive and bee
6. I only wear white cotton knickers which I wash separately from my other washing using M&S fragrance free liquid, no fabric softener.
7. Vaginal oestrogen - I’ve tried estriol cream and Vagirux. Vagirux was the worst for me as it did nothing to help the vulva which is where I feel it most. Estriol seemed to work for a while but then seemed to stop working. I persuaded my GP to prescribe Ovestin despite her claiming “it’s the same thing as estriol” (I knew from a lovely lady on here that it’s a different concentrate) and I use that twice a week internally and on the vulva and also every other day on the vulva.
Tbh my GP (supposedly has an interest in women’s health) has been quite unsympathetic and useless which has really added to the stress and upset.
I had sex for the first time in ages (as in I can’t even remember when last this happened) on Saturday and it was fine.
I really want you to know that there is hope and you are not alone.
I bought a book called me and my menopausal vagina and read up loads which I felt was useful x
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Hello Bella247,
Thank you for your kind words and helpful advice. I’m with you that the vulva part is the worst bit, and very hard to describe how it makes you feel to someone who hasn’t been there.
I had my first flare 8 months ago and was given Imvaggis on top of the systemic HRT I was already taking. I was lucky and was fine and flare free until 8 weeks ago (no lifestyle changes required at all) when I changed my systemic HRT to topical - I’ve been a train wreck since then. I’ve just been prescribed Interosa plus Ovestin by GP (tip: send an online form into to GP in holiday time and they prescribe anything you ask for ;)) so I’m hoping this helps.
Anyone out there had a good experience with Interosa? I listened to a couple of podcasts with Louise Newson and a urogynaecologist who seemed to suggest that this could be better for addressing the urinary systems as well as vaginal.
Best wishes
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I've used all brands, vagifem, vagurux and estriodol and they've been fine. Now on alternate nights. I use ovestin externally nightly and that's just starting to have effect on the changes that happened. I was fine having sex but not sexually active at present so don't know. I've no problems with pain etc. I did used to get UTIs after sex and sometimes feeling I had UTI when it wasn't. I've not had that since I uppped the dosage.
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Morning.
Do read 'the bladder issues' and any threads on vaginal atrophy. Make notes!
The condition is usually the result of receding oestrogen in the body. Appropriate treatment : 'vagifem', 'ovestin' and a good moisturisers can ease symptoms. The idea is to insert into the vagina the oestrogen every night for 2-3 weeks. Some ladies need nightly applications there after, others can reduce to every 3rd and 5/6th. nights. Getting the condition under control is essential.
When I feel the need2P I swallow 2 Nurofen 3 times a day to ease the nipping sensation as the urine flow shuts off. I have used 'ovestin' successfully for many years.
Vaginal atrophy mimic repeated bladder infection-type symptoms really really well. A dip stick urine test in the surgery doesn't show much, a urine sample must be sent to a Lab to check that there is infection. Antibiotic therapy can help short term.
Let us know how you get on. U don't need a blood test or an examiantnio to get treatment for this condition.
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Yes, there is hope as long as you don’t shy away from using the appropriate VA treatment. Its for life but if used in the amount required for you, you will get back to what was normal before the degeneration of the vagina started to occur. I will add though its a different outcome for ladies who suffer other conditions of the vagina, the journey is more difficult for them.
I loved my perfumed baths, hate showers, that alone makes the condition worse as another bit of your life disappears with age, but two years on from being a chronic case I can now have Epsom salt baths occasionally with added essential oils, but that really is just a treat!
I have to use daily treatment of Vagifem, Ovestin and moisturiser and bath every day using non soap products and Aqueous cream down below, this regime has made my life normal again, so there is hope!
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Hello Bella247,
Thank you for your kind words and helpful advice. I’m with you that the vulva part is the worst bit, and very hard to describe how it makes you feel to someone who hasn’t been there.
I had my first flare 8 months ago and was given Imvaggis on top of the systemic HRT I was already taking. I was lucky and was fine and flare free until 8 weeks ago (no lifestyle changes required at all) when I changed my systemic HRT to topical - I’ve been a train wreck since then. I’ve just been prescribed Interosa plus Ovestin by GP (tip: send an online form into to GP in holiday time and they prescribe anything you ask for ;)) so I’m hoping this helps.
Anyone out there had a good experience with Interosa? I listened to a couple of podcasts with Louise Newson and a urogynaecologist who seemed to suggest that this could be better for addressing the urinary systems as well as vaginal.
Best wishes
You’re so welcome. It’s a horrible place to be. Having VA has such an impact on your life. I don’t even think I could imagine how much if I hadn’t experienced it myself.
It sounds weird but feeling uncomfy down there (which I hadn’t felt before) just felt like a physical reminder of getting older which I found really hard to get my head around as well as the discomfort.
It also really doesn’t help that most GPs have an insane lack of knowledge about this. The supposed women’s health GP at my practice said things to me that I know from my own reading aren’t right.
She called in another GP for a second opinion on my vagina which just depressed me and made me feel like nobody knows what they are doing.
I do think the v magic after the loo helps a lot. It’s annoying as it’s bloody expensive but a little tin still lasts a couple of months. There’s olive and bee too but I prefer the v magic. I would definitely recommend giving that a go and please know you’re not alone
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Thanks to all of you that have replied. It is so good to hear that this condition is not just a downward spiral! I go on with hope. Thanks ladies, wishing you all comfort and happiness 😊
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Let us know how you get on?
The sooner that you begin appropriate treatment and get into a regime, the better your vulva and vagina will feel.
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Ah no worries. Yes let us know how you get on and I hope you can take away from this that there is hope. I felt like there was none at all a few months ago so I understand just how you feel xx
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Oh and yes there is HOPE!
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I will certainly let you know how I get on - thank you.
Another question- what do you do about vaginal oestrogen when you’re on your period? There is nothing I could find about this because the treatments are not targeted for those in peri.
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I started with VA when I was 48 and peri stage. It was horrendous, I couldn't sleep, walk or sit because of the discomfort. I struggled for a year to get the right treatment as kept getting told it was thrush and that you couldn't get VA until 2 years post meno. What a load of nonsense!
I managed to eventually get the right treatment and am on systemic HRT, Vagifem and Ovestin cream just for the VA. Apart from the odd flare up I can now live a normal life. As for sex, this week has been good ;)
I just carried on with the Vagifem during my period.
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My friend has just told me she's been prescribed ovestin for external use twice weekly. She has atrophy and cracking of the skin. Is my nightly use dangerous? Such was the atrophy, the twice weekly wasn't enough
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No Jules, there is no danger from nightly use of Ovestin. You can use the pessaries and the cream every night if that's what it takes. (Many women are underdosed when it comes to local oestrogen.)
JP x
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No Jules, there is no danger from nightly use of Ovestin. You can use the pessaries and the cream every night if that's what it takes. (Many women are underdosed when it comes to local oestrogen.)
JP x
Okay thanks. The 3 or 4 times weekly vagifem seems fine but the external problem will take more treatment and time. Twice weekly is useless. My friends doctor told her she didn't need anything internally - he told her that over the phone!
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Jules - each 1 of us is different so requires a personal treatment atrophy plan.
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Tinkerbell,
I too have started with this at 48. Have you been able to identify the triggers for your flares? Do you think it’s something specific or did to hormones being all over the place in peri? Xx
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Jules - each 1 of us is different so requires a personal treatment atrophy plan.
I know, I just worry about how much is getting in my system
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Jules - U R over thinking. Why the worry? I had breast treatment in the 1990s and have never been concerned about HRT - something may well trigger the disease however, quality of life and living in the now take precedence.
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Jules - U R over thinking. Why the worry? I had breast treatment in the 1990s and have never been concerned about HRT - something may well trigger the disease however, quality of life and living in the now take precedence.
Because I'm basically using more than advised. I'd be the same about anything, vitamin supplements or alcohol
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'more than is advised' :-\. I don't think that too much can be inserted into the vagina to ease symptoms as well as smeared round the vulval area. Once treatment begins to work and symptoms ease, the amount can be reduced. The vagina cleanses itself once dryness is settled.
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'more than is advised' :-\. I don't think that too much can be inserted into the vagina to ease symptoms as well as smeared round the vulval area. Once treatment begins to work and symptoms ease, the amount can be reduced. The vagina cleanses itself once dryness is settled.
We're all different. Though I use experience from others, I don't totally ignore those who are medically qualified either.
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Jules - U R over thinking. Why the worry? I had breast treatment in the 1990s and have never been concerned about HRT - something may well trigger the disease however, quality of life and living in the now take precedence.
Because I'm basically using more than advised. I'd be the same about anything, vitamin supplements or alcohol
Jules, my GP (and a different meno specialist also a GP) said that a year's supply of vagifem is equivalent to one day's dose of systemic hrt. It doesn't make sense to me why they limit vaginal hrt if that is correct. I didn't think to ask them why at the time, but am wishing I did given what I read on here about prescribed doses being insufficient.
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As well as 'those medically qualified' often no nowt about appropriate vaginal atrophy treatment.
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As well as 'those medically qualified' often no nowt about appropriate vaginal atrophy treatment.
I don't think it's appropriate to quote someone in that way. A normal reply is sufficient. Are you medically trained?
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I probably have more knowledge about vaginal atrophy as will many members here, than GPs, Nurses, Consultants and sometimes menopause specialists - Dr Newson is trying to get the leaflet altered which is inserted in boxes of VA treatment to give more clarification to prescribing practitioners and users. I am a medical secretary with a history of breast disease in the 1990s and my VA was treated promptly by my GP, without examination or blood tests. He prescribes HRT on symptoms.
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I probably have more knowledge about vaginal atrophy as will many members here, than GPs, Nurses, Consultants and sometimes menopause specialists - Dr Newson is trying to get the leaflet altered which is inserted in boxes of VA treatment to give more clarification to prescribing practitioners and users. I am a medical secretary with a history of breast disease in the 1990s and my VA was treated promptly by my GP, without examination or blood tests. He prescribes HRT on symptoms.
I will still take note of my GP, he's a good one. I worked with psychologists. Doesn't mean I'm a psychologist myself. I appreciate your input. It feels patronising or sarcastic though when you keep quoting parts of what I say. This forum is for us to air our concerns and experiences. We should expect reasonable replies.
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Jules : do read the thread back as I think that you have targeted the wrong person ? :-\ in that I never 'quote' any1. All members give reasonable replies. I never see sarcasm on the Forum.
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Jules : do read the thread back as I think that you have targeted the wrong person ? :-\ in that I never 'quote' any1. All members give reasonable replies. I never see sarcasm on the Forum.
Twice you've done it. Perhaps you're not aware. Just replying normally to the point is all that's needed.
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Show me exactly where perhaps 🤔 tnx. I've read back through threads and can't see that I ever 'quote' any1 .........
And it is absolutely fine 4 any1 to trust a medical professional as well as reading experiences from Members here to see whether they apply now or might do future or can be discarded.
Is any1 else aware that I might be 'quoting' here ? I don't know how to use the 'quote' facility on the Forum :-\
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The gynaecologist told me it’s fine to use every other day on my vulva. She said there is no systemic absorption by applying it to the vulva (which is where I suffer the most).
When I first started using oestrogen cream the leaflet terrified the life out of me (I have health anxiety and it wasn’t what I wanted to read). Apparently the leaflet is based on out of date info (very annoying and no doubt this wouldn’t be the case if it were something men had to spread on their privates).
I don’t think I will ever get over the lack of education medical professionals undergo about the menopause when it’s something that potentially affects 50% of the population and can cause such absolute misery. I really hope this changes.
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I agree. I had no knowledge about atrophy until it hit me. I had been to my gp (female) about issues that should have alerted her to it but I was never given any help until much later when it had got worse. It's bloody annoying. It is under control now but it is a distressing condition.
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Its incredible that its not considered when you present yourself at the surgery with the most awful symptoms. I had fungal cream prescribed, 3 courses of antibiotics, phone call from the nurse asking me how I was because my urine sample was clear, when I told her I was still burning like hell, she hadn't a clue what was wrong with me, how worrying is that. Medics still think it has got to be a bladder infection, its no wonder most of us have never heard of the term Vaginal Atrophy and it still comes as a great shock to women now.
When I got to the stage I couldn't sit down and in a dreadful state, the GP examined me and said you need oestrogen down there, that's all she said, no mention of the words Vaginal Atrophy, this should never be happening in this day and age.
They say don't Google anything, if I hadn't I would never have known what I was suffering from, I learned all I know about VA from the internet.
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Yes pretty much the same for me. I cried a lot when I read about it, the implications of it were horrendous and it made me feel embarrassed and ashamed. Things are better now but it's always a worry, will I always be able to control it. This forum has been a lifesaver for me in so many ways.
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As well as 'those medically qualified' often no nowt about appropriate vaginal atrophy treatment.
I don't want to continue this but you have repeated in inverted commas parts of my posts. It comes across as sarcasm. You can just state your view. I will understand
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The gynaecologist told me it’s fine to use every other day on my vulva. She said there is no systemic absorption by applying it to the vulva (which is where I suffer the most).
When I first started using oestrogen cream the leaflet terrified the life out of me (I have health anxiety and it wasn’t what I wanted to read). Apparently the leaflet is based on out of date info (very annoying and no doubt this wouldn’t be the case if it were something men had to spread on their privates).
I don’t think I will ever get over the lack of education medical professionals undergo about the menopause when it’s something that potentially affects 50% of the population and can cause such absolute misery. I really hope this changes.
Did she say its fine to use every other day because that's all you need or was she stating a recommended dose?
I had no idea either about my condition either though I knew from other women that UTIs were common. The biggest shock was the vulval atrophy. I had no idea that change could happen. It was a GP who told me after an exam, she has subsequently phoned me to answer more questions. She told me I can use vagifem every night and ovestin sparsely but after hearing Ayesha, I upped the ovestin to nightly and the amount I need. There are 3 GPs at my surgery who are great. One tells me her stuff too. Other than this forum, I've not googled because I always find the worse case scenario
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I struggle with vaginal / vulval estradiol more than the patches. I get migraine and ringing in the ears when using it. It's not supposed to go into the system but some must do, probably not enough to be worrying about, but I definitely get this reaction, every time.
It's a pain, and I'm avoiding it because of it. As well as migraine / tinnitus / I get weird feelings in my chest linked to postural hypotension, but only in response to vaginal estradiol. I've tested this a number of times now. I need to get my estradiol levels checked as they were way too high at the middle of last year, and I'm hoping that once they are down to what's considered a normal healthy level for my age, maybe then I will tolerate the vaginal estradiol, but when I first started it in 2020 I had sensitivity to noise and ringing in the ears as well, though not as bad as now.
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The gynaecologist told me it’s fine to use every other day on my vulva. She said there is no systemic absorption by applying it to the vulva (which is where I suffer the most).
When I first started using oestrogen cream the leaflet terrified the life out of me (I have health anxiety and it wasn’t what I wanted to read). Apparently the leaflet is based on out of date info (very annoying and no doubt this wouldn’t be the case if it were something men had to spread on their privates).
I don’t think I will ever get over the lack of education medical professionals undergo about the menopause when it’s something that potentially affects 50% of the population and can cause such absolute misery. I really hope this changes.
Did she say its fine to use every other day because that's all you need or was she stating a recommended dose?
I had no idea either about my condition either though I knew from other women that UTIs were common. The biggest shock was the vulval atrophy. I had no idea that change could happen. It was a GP who told me after an exam, she has subsequently phoned me to answer more questions. She told me I can use vagifem every night and ovestin sparsely but after hearing Ayesha, I upped the ovestin to nightly and the amount I need. There are 3 GPs at my surgery who are great. One tells me her stuff too. Other than this forum, I've not googled because I always find the worse case scenario
The old vagifem was 25mcg 2 week loading dose followed by twice a week. Therefore a much larger loading dose followed by 50mcg a week. Many women were doing well on that and the change to 10mcg vagifem (where we seemed to follow the americans) was not welcome.
I think you are using 3 or 4 vagifem a week Jules so roughly 40mcg a week with some ovestin on the vulva which is a weaker estriol oestrogen anyway.
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:thankyou: Jules - now I understand. Call me 'slow' etc. ::).
sfreesto .......... what did U decide about treatment ?
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Karashannon, I also got symptoms when I started using it. I had period type pain and breast pain so stopped twice. So obviously it gets into the system. I'm okay now but get the odd bout still. The nightly ovestin seems to only be keeping things at bay, I'm not sure it will make much difference to the existing atrophy
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:thankyou: Jules - now I understand. Call me 'slow' etc. ::).
sfreesto .......... what did U decide about treatment ?
Hi CLKD, well I managed to get a young out of hours GP to prescribe me Intrarosa (I was interested because of the DHEA - I used to work in a reproductive biology lab 20+ years ago so I’m not exactly a lay person) and Ovestin for external use. I also have a follow up appointment next week with a menopause GP to examine me and to discuss further options. Something seems to trigger when I switched by systemic HRT from Femoston 2/10 to Oestrogel plus Utrogestin. Coincidentally I’m sure I seem to be coming out the other side of the flare now so I’m feeling better. I will come back and let you know what the menopause GP says to me.
Thanks for your support
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sfressto : Let us know how you get on. IF oestrogen levels have been altered by HRT and the regime is altered, it may a natural co-incidence that VA symptoms began.
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Hi sfressto
OMG its so awful isn’t it, I was diagnosed a couple of months ago and when I realised what it was and that there was no real magic cure, I could quite happily have crawled into a hole and never come out. My GP is not that good and basically is bored with it now, says it’s just a thing some women have to live with.. delightfully unhelpful so I’m pinning my hopes on a private gynaecologist being a bit more helpful, seeing him in the new year(also about a double prolapse!!) But although things are far from being under control, I do get the occasional good day or two now when things feel normal and I can get on with things. So keep focused on the fact that good days do happen and enjoy them. This forum is an amazing support. Just knowing that you’re not alone in this awful place helps. Even in the darkest days, when I’m down and tearful and ready to throw in the towel,I can spend a little while on here and realise that quitting isn’t an option because at least a few good days now and then is more than some others seem to have. And I really think the more noise we make the better things will get.
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I know what you mean kathryn 22, it's really tough to face up to. But you can get on top of it, still enjoy sex, feel comfortable, be it does take time. I was devastated when I read up about it and that it's for life is psychologically hard to take. I feel the same about this forum !
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Hi suzysunday - may I ask what you use to control va, and roughly how long did it take to get it under control and enjoy sex again and feel comfortable? xx
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The gynaecologist told me it’s fine to use every other day on my vulva. She said there is no systemic absorption by applying it to the vulva (which is where I suffer the most).
When I first started using oestrogen cream the leaflet terrified the life out of me (I have health anxiety and it wasn’t what I wanted to read). Apparently the leaflet is based on out of date info (very annoying and no doubt this wouldn’t be the case if it were something men had to spread on their privates).
I don’t think I will ever get over the lack of education medical professionals undergo about the menopause when it’s something that potentially affects 50% of the population and can cause such absolute misery. I really hope this changes.
Did she say its fine to use every other day because that's all you need or was she stating a recommended dose?
I had no idea either about my condition either though I knew from other women that UTIs were common. The biggest shock was the vulval atrophy. I had no idea that change could happen. It was a GP who told me after an exam, she has subsequently phoned me to answer more questions. She told me I can use vagifem every night and ovestin sparsely but after hearing Ayesha, I upped the ovestin to nightly and the amount I need. There are 3 GPs at my surgery who are great. One tells me her stuff too. Other than this forum, I've not googled because I always find the worse case scenario
I directly asked her whether it was ok to use it on the vulva on days that I wasn’t inserting it internally and she said that’s fine because when it’s applied to the vulva there is no systematic absorption.
I’ve also upped the frequency I’m applying non HRT products to my vagina which I think (hope and pray) is making a difference. Basically any time I do a wee I pay myself gently and apply either olive and bee or v magic and always after I shower and at night on days I’m not applying Ovestin.
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Kathryn 22 - what R U using to ease symptoms and how often?
No one 'has to live with' any complaint >:(. All of the prescribed medications for vaginal atrophy can be used every night if necessary. 'sylc' and 'yes' moisorisors are useful too and I use KY Jelly on the out labia when it feels dry as well as 'ovestin' internally.
50+ do U not have any treatment for VA?
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Hi CLKD
I’m on Estriol which I now use every other night and YES moisturiser on the other days. I know that you don’t have to live with these things,but in a way you do if your medical support is not the best
What you have to do is learn to cope with the symptoms as best you can
You never know maybe someday a more long term solution will appear
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I've been using vagifem alternate nights which has been fine but I've just noticed it feeling drier when inserting so maybe even that isn't enough or it's maybe because I'm not having sex at present. I have no discomfort though so I'm not too worried
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Hi CLKD
Only in the last couple of months have I started using ovestin nightly. My main problem is painful sex and and although it is a little better, I am wondering how long? it will take of using ovestin before sex will not be painful again as it was before I got miserable VA
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This my my story, and others of their experience suffering Vaginal Atrophy.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64837.msg895647.html#msg895647
I don't know why some women don't just get on and use the treatment every day because replacing the lost oestrogen is the only remedy for this nasty condition, no natural product will help apart from keeping you well moisturised.
Even with prolapse the topical HRT will help, with other conditions I appreciate the road to recovery is more complex but can be worked on successfully.
My vagina had a no entry sign on it, impossible to gain entry. After a year of daily vaginal atrophy treatment I am back to normal.
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Ayesha
No entry sign 🤣 love it
Not a problem in my life my partner had radical prostate surgery 5 yrs ago so that’s a memory ☹️ Mind you, apparently if your not active it’s a negative
So early hysterectomy , Long and difficult Menopause, No sex, and apparently my ovaries have turned to dust and are non existent according to the last scan. So all in all should have seen this coming .. had I known it existed
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I think I was heading that way somewhere in the future Ayesha. Thankfully I read your experience. I'm going to adjust my treatment as required. A sex life is currently just a desire though but focused on sorting out my bits first. Things are improving very slowly.
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Well said Ayesha - it's all or nothing for many women etc.; nightly with moisturisers etc..
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Hi kathryn22. It took about a year all told. I just use ovestin and used it alternate nights at first but still feeling those horrible wee feelings so gp advised using it every night for a month more, I think I did a couple of months, then back to alternate. I still use it nightly sometimes. I didn't have sex for about a year, but gently used dilators that the hospital provided. It was a miserable time but now sex is fine. You learn how to control flare ups. It's a rubbish condition!
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Thanks so much for sharing your very personal story Ayesha which must have been such a miserable and distressing time for you - you have given myself and others hope ... big thanks again to you and all the other lovely ladies here who have shared their experiences too which is very helpful and appreciated to a newbie when dealing with this depressing, debilitating condition. I have learned and I am still learning so much from you all ...
Lots of Luv 50+
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I've learned there's two things. Vaginal Atrophy which was my first problem, and Vulval atrophy that came much later and what I didn't expect and wasnt aware of till a doctor described some fusing and the appearance i didn't notice enough till the stage when I wondered what the heck. Has everyone with VA got Vulval atrophy too? Apart from Ayesha, has anybody managed to make some improvement with continued use of ovestin? I don't have discomfort at present with my current treatment, it's the physical appearance I find has affected me. I don't know how and when it happened but seemed quite suddenly.
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Jules,
I think my problems seem to be more vulva/urethra related than vaginal, or at least that seems to be what causes me more symptoms. Ive been on systemic HRT for two years and Imvaggis for 9 months, and I’m only 49, so the only visible changes for are the sore vestibule at this stage - though that is bad enough!
Ladies, as you know I’ve been having a nasty flare up and have just changed to Intrarosa internally plus Ovestin externally. Has anyone else found the first morning pee (well after the one/two in the night of course), when probably the Intrarosa comes out, to be painful?
Incidentally, I was listening to a Louise Newson podcast yesterday and she said on there that she uses Intrarosa. Also a US-based specialist Ashley Winter said she sees better results with Intrarosa. So, I’ll stick with it for a while but did wonder about the exit burns.
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Jules,
I think my problems seem to be more vulva/urethra related than vaginal, or at least that seems to be what causes me more symptoms. Ive been on systemic HRT for two years and Imvaggis for 9 months, and I’m only 49, so the only visible changes for are the sore vestibule at this stage - though that is bad enough!
Ladies, as you know I’ve been having a nasty flare up and have just changed to Intrarosa internally plus Ovestin externally. Has anyone else found the first morning pee (well after the one/two in the night of course), when probably the Intrarosa comes out, to be painful?
Incidentally, I was listening to a Louise Newson podcast yesterday and she said on there that she uses Intrarosa. Also a US-based specialist Ashley Winter said she sees better results with Intrarosa. So, I’ll stick with it for a while but did wonder about the exit burns.
What is interosa? My GP described some visible changes. I can now see too. I wish I'd started using ovestin earlier though I didn't know it was available. It is making slight difference but very slow. Thankfully I don't get discomfort....yet. my problem was sex related. I had to use profalactics after to prevent uti and it had started being painful though the vagifem sorting that out. It's the external atrophy that is concerning and affects my confidence. So I was hoping to hear that some have had success with treatment
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Morning. sfreesto - the day after I begin a reload of 'ovestin' when I've had a break, I often get more reaction for 24 hours which settles. I would stick to the 'ovestin' myself, nightly for at least 2-3 weeks.
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You have only just started using Ovestin externally and I would definitely use every day until you feel that its working for you.
The problem with these treatments is they can take weeks/months to start working and the key word is patience. If you think you are not improving you can always review the situation at a later date, but its never a quick fix with any issues regarding that part of our anatomy.
Jules, to answer your not so easy question as we are all made differently, it took a year for me to look normal again but I am at the stage that I don't notice I have a vagina anymore because of the vaginal atrophy treatment.
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Hello. Thank you so much for posting this. I can on here this morning to have a moan and ask for similar advice and I’ve now found lots of info.
I’ve been using Vagifem twice weekly for around 4 years, increasing to 3 times per week if I can feel a flare up.
On Christmas Eve I felt I was in the edge, so increased to three per week a week ago. It feels worse this week, burning in the vulval area (particularly after going for a wee) and similar symptoms as four years ago. So disappointing as I really felt it was under control. The weird thing is that, to touch, I don’t feel dry at all, never have.
I tried Olive and B and Yes prior to the Vagifem without much success, I just felt more burning. I’m wondering what V Magic is.
I fear I might have to go back to the GP but mine has left and the rest are hopeless. Everything by the book and I feel like I tell them what to do.
Not good for a start of a new year.
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You have only just started using Ovestin externally and I would definitely use every day until you feel that its working for you.
The problem with these treatments is they can take weeks/months to start working and the key word is patience. If you think you are not improving you can always review the situation at a later date, but its never a quick fix with any issues regarding that part of our anatomy.
Jules, to answer your not so easy question as we are all made differently, it took a year for me to look normal again but I am at the stage that I don't notice I have a vagina anymore because of the vaginal atrophy treatment.
I suppose because I've no discomfort, I'm not aware as much in that respect but I obviously look different. I've been using ovestin nightly for 4 months and I do use a large pea size, I use what I need to cover the area. Yes, there's slight visible improvement so I'm just ploughing on. I've no idea how I would manage sex, last time was 4 months ago and it was fine but may not be so now. I need to find a test pilot!
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Patchsmama - use every night for at least 2-3 weeks. The area may be sore initially as the skin could be thin, itchy and distressed. The idea is to plump up the internal skin so that it recovers from the dryness, usually caused by depleted oestrogen. Some find that 'yes' or 'sylc' - I use KY Jelly on the out vulval areas - B4 or after inserting the VA treatment can ease any soreness.
When I feel the need2P symptoms I swallow 2 Nurofen 3 times a day so ease the nip as the urine flow shuts off.
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Doesn't nurofen contain ibuprofen? Would plain old paracetamol work?
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Thank you CLKD. Always so helpful. If I increase further, I’ll need to convince the hopeless GPs to prescribe more. Unfortunately I can’t take ibuprofen however, it’s less like a uti this time, more like burning afterwards and for some time. Xx
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Hello. Thank you so much for posting this. I can on here this morning to have a moan and ask for similar advice and I’ve now found lots of info.
I’ve been using Vagifem twice weekly for around 4 years, increasing to 3 times per week if I can feel a flare up.
On Christmas Eve I felt I was in the edge, so increased to three per week a week ago. It feels worse this week, burning in the vulval area (particularly after going for a wee) and similar symptoms as four years ago. So disappointing as I really felt it was under control. The weird thing is that, to touch, I don’t feel dry at all, never have.
I tried Olive and B and Yes prior to the Vagifem without much success, I just felt more burning. I’m wondering what V Magic is.
I fear I might have to go back to the GP but mine has left and the rest are hopeless. Everything by the book and I feel like I tell them what to do.
Not good for a start of a new year.
If you have burning in the vulva area after a wee you may now need estriol cream or Ovestin cream to rub on the vulva area.
Just my experience but I used vagifem for a long time tinkering with levels & it never reached the vulva.
You may find that a GP is reluctant to give both vagifem & an estriol cream but don’t give up if that happens.
I’m currently using Aproderm barrier cream on the vulva to keep the wee off. I put a small amount on each morning after a shower. I got this after another member mentioned it.
I’d make a note of food & drink you are consuming as I’ve been advised not to have things like coffee tea spicy food & acid tomatoes.
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Patchsmama - ring your GP Surgery and ask for a referral to a dedicated menopause clinic if U think that the GP won't prescribe 'enough'. So many still believe that there is a risk of 'overdosing' >:(. Is there a Nurse Practitioner with more knowledge perhaps?
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I also would say you need to increase your dose of Vagifem and ask for Ovestin to apply topically on the outside, the regime you are using now is obviously not enough for you as you age.
Fight for what you are entitled to, I am on 7 days a week Vagifem and Ovestin along with a lot of other women on this forum, explain that to your GP if necessary. For something that is as simple as straight forward Vaginal Atrophy there should be no need for you to attend a menopause clinic, its just not necessary.
Its a well known fact some GP's know very little about VA and its usually the patient once educated to it, that tells the GP what's needed.
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Vaginal and Vulval atrophy are my main problems. Thanks to the experience of some people on this forum I've worked out what I need to do, I have yet to start moisturising daily but I'm not having any urinary issues or discomfort. I'm still unsure about the amount I'm using, I'm applying ovestin as I need to, I may increase the vagifem to nightly. I'm going to leave the forum. Wishing you all well and healthy women bits
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It shouldn't be necessary to go to a menopause clinic, however with the waiting lists both NHS and Private, it is often worth getting onto a list : the appt can be cancelled nearer the time should symptoms improve.
Some GPs simply have no idea and many do not want to be educated. Also prescriptions come out of the budget.
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Jules,
I think my problems seem to be more vulva/urethra related than vaginal, or at least that seems to be what causes me more symptoms. Ive been on systemic HRT for two years and Imvaggis for 9 months, and I’m only 49, so the only visible changes for are the sore vestibule at this stage - though that is bad enough!
Ladies, as you know I’ve been having a nasty flare up and have just changed to Intrarosa internally plus Ovestin externally. Has anyone else found the first morning pee (well after the one/two in the night of course), when probably the Intrarosa comes out, to be painful?
Incidentally, I was listening to a Louise Newson podcast yesterday and she said on there that she uses Intrarosa. Also a US-based specialist Ashley Winter said she sees better results with Intrarosa. So, I’ll stick with it for a while but did wonder about the exit burns.
What is interosa? My GP described some visible changes. I can now see too. I wish I'd started using ovestin earlier though I didn't know it was available. It is making slight difference but very slow. Thankfully I don't get discomfort....yet. my problem was sex related. I had to use profalactics after to prevent uti and it had started being painful though the vagifem sorting that out. It's the external atrophy that is concerning and affects my confidence. So I was hoping to hear that some have had success with treatment
Hi Jules,
Intrarosa is a vaginal pessarie like Vagifem but instead of Estradiol it is DHEA. Your body converts the DHEA into both oestrogens and testosterone, so in theory should be a bit more of a holistic treatment. It also melts and runs out a bit so will treat the vestibule. I’ll report back on how well it works.
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Hi sfreesto
So ... Intrarosa is both estrogen & testosterone, how interesting - would 1 have to take progesterone also if they still had a womb, do you know? Also please keep us updated - I for 1 would be very interested in your experience with this thanks x
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If Louise Newson uses Intrarosa then it must be good, eh? ;)
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Hi fiftyplus,
Intrarosa is a low dose vaginal therapy for VA and not a systemic HRT. You only have to take progesterone if you’re on systemic HRT and have a womb.
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Many thanks for that - please do keep us updated with how you get on with it x
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Morning Ladies,
I said I would update on my progress. Well, the menopause GP I was supposed to see yesterday phoned in sick! Honestly I was gutted at this point (and had a mortifying work catch up with HR where I promptly cried and told her everything when she asked me how I was) so I decided to try private. By some miracle there was an in person appt available at my local Newson health clinic for Monday so I am feeling hopeful about that. I will let you know how it goes. It will be good to have 45 mins with a Dr to get all the details out.
In terms of symptoms I would say they have flatlined at an annoying but not terrible level. The Intrarosa still burns on exit and smells weird - I thought I had BV (to add insult to injury) but realised the odd smell was only when the Intrarosa comes out most with the first morning pee.
Hope you’re all feeling as good as you can today xx
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Tnx for the update. MayB take a list of symptoms with you?
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Thanks for the update my lovely. Sending virtual hugs your way :hug: Keep your chin up Mrs, hopefully you will feel better after your appointment on Monday :foryou: x
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Hi Everyone
A quick update from me too. I finally managed to get a GP appointment this morning and saw a really sympathetic lady GO who actually seemed to know what she was talking about. She told me to use the Vagifem nightly for two weeks then reduce back to usual dose, use Yes to moisturise and also gave me antibiotics to keep at home in case of UTI. doesn’t it feel good when you actually find a doctor who understands. I think she may have been relatively newly qualified, so she has clearly had some good teaching! I hope it now does the job.
Sending hugs to everyone and hoping you all find comfort xxx
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Thanks ladies, great updates and look forward to reading how it all goes for you, your experiences are all very educational! :)
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Patchsmama: It certainly helps with any condition to feel listened to, followed up with treatment.
How a GP should send a urine sample to a Lab to be tested B4 prescribing an anti-biotic. Vaginal atrophy mimics repeated urine infection-type symptoms really really well.
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Thanks CLKD. Sending off an MSU is the gold standard of treating a UTI. However, I’ve been in the situation where I’ve been left in agony for over 48hrs as they refused to dipstick, prior to sending off for culture and sensitivity. That’s why my old GP said to start antibiotics as soon as I have symptoms. Thankfully, this is the first time I’ve taken them since starting Vagifem 4 years ago ☺️
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Thanks ladies, great updates and look forward to reading how it all goes for you, your experiences are all very educational! :)
Thanks Ayesha xx
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Good Afternoon Ladies,
Good news story - unbelievably I woke up pain and irritation free today. It seems these VA flares have a very sudden onset and then after days of pain go as quickly as they came - or is that just me?
I happened to notice I am mid cycle, when my own oestrogen levels should be high, and I’m thinking there could be a pattern emerging here because it was at this stage of my last cycle I had some respite. I’ve also had an elevated resting heart rate since changing to Oestrogel and I’m seeing that is also more normal now and four weeks ago (of course might just be no pain = less stress). Maybe I need to super charge my oestrogen dose towards the end of my cycle or likely I just don’t absorb Oestrogel well enough.
I’ve only been on the Intrarosa for 8 days so I doubt that has been a miracle cure.
Newsome Health Clinic tomorrow - I will report back on what I learn.
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ABs will ease initial symptoms, however, World Wide too many are being prescribed instead of appropriate treatment - with many bugs becoming resistant. :-\ :'( so when an emergency arrives, i.e. another pandemic, it will be harder to treat it.
Take your list to the appt.?
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Hello All,
I’m coming back to update after my appt with Newson Health and GP, and I’m pleased to say I have some answers and a plan.
The thought is my VA flare ups are related to the oestrogen peaks and troughs from being peri - systemic oestrogen crash and I have a flare up. The oestrogel plus utrogestan HRT I’ve been on has not been effective enough at flattening out my oestrogen levels - I’ve also had bleeding at very random times.
So the plan is to level out my hormones and stop me bleeding at all for a few months to give the VA chance to settle down. For HRT I am moving onto 100mg Estradot (I have managed to get it today too), taking utrogestan 100mg every day (instead of 200 mg on days 15-26 of cycle) and go onto the desogestrel mini pill. Vaginally I’ll be on Intrarosa (both Drs I saw love it and say it is very beneficial if your VA causes urethra/bladder symptoms) plus Ovestin externally.
Quite a regime! LOL
I’ll let you know how I progress with it all. Xx
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Afternoon ladies,
I’m looking for some advice from you all about vulval soreness. I have been trying all manner of things but can’t seem to settle on something that relieves the vulval soreness for me. It is worst first thing in the morning, and then settles over the day. I don’t appear to be dry, maybe too wet if anything. Any recommendations?
Thank you all, you’re a great support and source of knowledge Xx
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Thanks for the update sfreesto.
Are you using a moisturiser along with your other VA treatments? Like you I was never dry but I obviously was as I need to use moisturiser morning and night.
Hopefully some of the other ladies will be along with more advice for you :)
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There is this short thread where a member called Psychosocial mentions vulva soreness from the discharge. You could try messaging this member who is still active to ask for any possible update which might help you.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57345.msg811247.html#msg811247
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U can slar 'ovestin' around the outer labia as well as using internally. Some find 'yes' or 'sylc' products ease symptoms.
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Thanks for your suggestions ladies. I already use Ovestin externally and I’ve tried various brands and regimes of moisturiser. I occasionally get a day of comfort but I haven’t managed to correlate that with anything in particular. I do feel like it is something to do with the discharge - I’ve had some swabs recently and they came back normal. Maybe a barrier cream would help - anyone tried that? Xx
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It mayB that the discharge - the vagina cleanses itself - may be drying on your skin = soreness. I don't suffer any discharge from either KY Jelly nor 'ovestin'. I also don't wipe myself too much, rather a patting action to dry off.
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I remember ending up very sore after long walks wearing jeans and I found Sudacrem healed the area very quickly, its very thick but it worked for me. Zinc & castor oil cream I also find helpful.
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That reminds me: grandma always used zinc and caster oil, it came in a flat green tin.
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Thanks for your suggestions ladies. I already use Ovestin externally and I’ve tried various brands and regimes of moisturiser. I occasionally get a day of comfort but I haven’t managed to correlate that with anything in particular. I do feel like it is something to do with the discharge - I’ve had some swabs recently and they came back normal. Maybe a barrier cream would help - anyone tried that? Xx
I'm trying Aproderm barrier cream currently and you have to be careful that anything like that in itself isn't causing irritation.
Can you correlate bad days with strength of urine or what may be coming out in urine first thing in the morning depending on what you have consumed the day before ? you did mention that the vulva can be worse first thing then fade off during the day.
I now try to avoid coffee, tea, spicy food and tomatoes because of tannins, acids etc. I do have occasional weak coffee and types of coffees vary.
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Good evening,
Yesterday I tried sudocreme but found it couldn’t apply it to the sore bits because they weren’t dry enough. I’ve also tried Metanium and that seemed ok for a day but then next day it wasn’t. I tried Apoderm today and it burned and now this evening I seem worse again. I’ve also tried Olive and Bee, YES, Dermovate, MultiGyn Actigel, Replens MD. I am now wondering whether to just use nothing for a few days and walk round in a skirt with no underwear to give it all a chance to dry out.
For me this is the first time I’ve had a flare and these vulval symptoms have persisted for more than a few days. I have been like this since 21 Dec.
Xx
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I don't understand what needs to 'dry' ........ vaginal discharge is normal. A loss of oestrogen may make the vaginal skin thin, itchy, sore .......... KY Jelly or something that would be suitable for a baby skin. Going without undies may well help, give it a try?
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I think it is more to do with the extra discharge associated with using intrasrosa.
sfreesto
Could use of Intrarosa with ovestin externally possibly just not be a good mix causing the soreness ? might mean stopping one or the other to assess that.
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Back again ….. after having VA symptoms like I had 4 years ago, before I started Vagifem, I saw the GP who said to use it daily for two weeks and use moisturiser. I did this and used Yes VM twice daily (was that too much? All I could find were instructions saying it could last up to 3 days).
After no real improvement I spoke with a different GP and asked about oestrogen gel to use externally as that’s where the discomfort seems to mainly be, along with increased awareness of needing the loo. She said to take in a urine for testing and gave me antibiotics for three days. I checked my notes and the urine dipstick wasn’t sent off so I’m assuming it was fine. She said if there was no improvement to contact again and she would prescribe gel but not to use it with the Vagifem 🙄. Obviously the ladies on here say differently.
I’ve still had no real improvement. I stopped using the Yes yesterday in case it was irritating. I struggle with health anxiety and am now getting a bit stressed about it all. I know this probably doesn’t help.
If any ladies have any words of wisdom, I’m much appreciate it. I probably need to stop thinking about it so much too!!! 😔
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My only words of wisdom to you is to use Vagifem every day with an oestrogen cream like Ovestin to be used daily, just a pea sized amount should be enough, until you feel better and when you feel its time to reduce the dose then do so. You can use as much moisturiser as you want, its just a natural product and will do no harm.
I don't understand the advice to not use oestrogen gel with vagifem but I only have experience with ovestin cream which can be safely used together.
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GPs are so worried that we might 'overdose' if we use both products >:( :beat: 4getting that we are replacing oestrogen to make the vulva/vagina comfortable.
Patchsmama - did U use the ABs, dip stick in surgery doesn't show much at all. Urine samples MUST be sent to a Lab B4 ABs are prescribed. Overuse of ABs is a world wide problem and it's time that the medical profession stopped prescribing although 4 me, ABs did ease those initial symptoms. The advice that GPs should be giving is to use the VA treatment every night.
Ask your GP what she is basing her advice on? She may like to read our various 'bladder issues' as well as the VA threads on here ::)
Some find that 'yes' or 'sylc' products help or using 'vagifem' internally with 'ovestin' on the labial area.
... and breath ;-).
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My only words of wisdom to you is to use Vagifem every day with an oestrogen cream like Ovestin to be used daily, just a pea sized amount should be enough, until you feel better and when you feel its time to reduce the dose then do so. You can use as much moisturiser as you want, its just a natural product and will do no harm.
I don't understand the advice to not use oestrogen gel with vagifem but I only have experience with ovestin cream which can be safely used together.
Thank you Ayesha
I’m going to contact them tomorrow and try again. I think they’ll be fed up of me soon. I’ll try asking for Ovestin by name. The symptoms are exactly the same as I had pre-Vagifem
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GPs are so worried that we might 'overdose' if we use both products >:( :beat: 4getting that we are replacing oestrogen to make the vulva/vagina comfortable.
Patchsmama - did U use the ABs, dip stick in surgery doesn't show much at all. Urine samples MUST be sent to a Lab B4 ABs are prescribed. Overuse of ABs is a world wide problem and it's time that the medical profession stopped prescribing although 4 me, ABs did ease those initial symptoms. The advice that GPs should be giving is to use the VA treatment every night.
Ask your GP what she is basing her advice on? She may like to read our various 'bladder issues' as well as the VA threads on here ::)
Some find that 'yes' or 'sylc' products help or using 'vagifem' internally with 'ovestin' on the labial area.
... and breath ;-).
Thanks CLKD. Our surgery is a nightmare re urine tests. Previously, pre-Vagifem, thru said nothing on dipstick, didn’t send off the sample but by evening I was in agony needing antibiotics.
I’ll definitely challenge her on where she is getting her evidence for her advice from. It’s poor isn’t it, we shouldn’t have to do this and it causes even more stress. 😔
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GPs need educating as we learn ourselves. Many however seem reluctant to listen, across all complaints. Even men ! Fortunately my GP was aware, mayB his wife being my age ...... but he didn't hesitate in prescribing appropriate treatment.
It would be better if GPs took some time out to actually read about vaginal atrophy! 'me and my menopause vagina' is the place 4 them to begin!
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Evening everyone,
A different VA related topic. Have any of you found a good way to heal those horrible paper cut type areas that sting like hell?
Sfreesto xx
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Evening everyone,
A different VA related topic. Have any of you found a good way to heal those horrible paper cut type areas that sting like hell?
Sfreesto xx
I get those on the outside at certain times of the month and put sudocream on them to heal. Then use hydromol once the stinging has gone.
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'savlon' - regular use of VA treatment slated on the affected areas can ease it too.
OUCH!
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My gp recommended zinc and castor oil cream. A bit messy but soothing. Also ovestin liberally applied at other times.
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AND YES - there is hope ;)
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Zinc and Castor oil is very soothing and I have used Sudacrem in the passed when I used to get the paper cuts, it always healed the area quickly.
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What moisturiser do you use? I currently don't use one, i don't get soreness, but should probably start as a preventative measure
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I use extra 'ovestin' slared round the vulva/labia.
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Thanks for all your advice. I am having a serious burning day today, I don’t know what to do with myself. It is really like my whole vulva is on fire and anything I put on it burns even more. I’m having a dark day with this today. Is it possible I’ve hypersensitised and need to stop all treatment for a day or two? Xx
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Could you possibly strip back to one item & see how you are for a while then add in something else later while monitoring any soreness.
Have you been back in touch with Newsons Health ? (who I believe you had a private appointment with )to ask their advice as if I remember correctly they have given you the intrarosa with ovestin.
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@sfreesto it's not a bad idea to stop everything for a couple of days and then just re-introduce one thing at a time - that's what I would probably do x
@Jules I use Yes moisturiser which I like x
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Have you ever tried Vagifem along with Ovestin, perhaps interosa is not suiting you. I would seek help again if you are still burning like this, treatment you are using doesn't seem to be effective.
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I think I will take a break on everything for a day or two to see if it settles down.
I’m not sure if it’s the Intrarosa as I had this burning before I started it, although I feel like the burning is happening where discharge hits me.
The Ovestin seems to have made a difference already to external appearance, much plumper and sensation has improved.
I have never tried Vagifem, but was on Imvaggis for 10 months and all seemed under control (no flares at all), until I had a Mirena fitted. From there it’s been a downwards spiral of infection, inflammation, flare ups. I had the Mirena removed btw and am on utrogestan now.
GP seems to have washed their hands, prescribed me lidocaine without examination (haven’t used it yet) and gave me a referral. Perhaps I will have to go back to Newson.
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Who has the GP referred you to?
I would get myself into a cooling bath. When I used 'canteston' I had to sit in a cool bath for at least 45 mins. 2 ease the burning. Then pat dry and lay without knickers [unless U are in work]. Then nothing applied for 24 hours, and as many cooling baths as required.
Keep hydrated. Have a lookC at what Mum's use for a baby in the way of nappy rash etc.. What's good enough for a baby skin should be OK for adults. When U mention infections, I can't remember whether you required treatment?
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GP has referred me to a vulval dermatologist. I’m lucky enough to have private healthcare through work but still can’t get an appointment until 11 March. (My boss is actually a Dr and she is going to try and ask her network to see if anyone can help me - the shame of it!).
I’ll try and jump in the cooling bath once I finish work.
Infection wise I first went for a smear and I was feeling sore and the nurse told me I had a heavy infection. I took 3 lots of flucanazole and was still sore so went to the Dr. The swabs came back negative for yeast but I had an overgrowth on group B strep. Drs often think GBS is asymptomatic but because I was sore GP decided to treat me - as for BV with vaginal clindamycin. After that I was fine for about a month.
Dec 21 it all flared up again and this is where I appear to be stuck. I’m at a loss where to turn. I keep thinking that Mirena was the worst thing I ever did!
I don’t feel like the VA treatments aren’t doing their job, it’s more like some kind of irritation or and infection that is not being picked up.
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Given that you have been dealing with other infections has anyone suggested that the bartholins glands at the back of the vagina might be infected. I once had a small bartholins cyst which caused some vulva pain/soreness towards the back. Antibiotics sorted it . Just a thought.
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Managed to get to the GP again. The current thought is it the Group B Strep again. So it is vaginal clindamycin for 7 days for me now, but to go back Thursday if I haven’t improved.
I really need to improve because I am travelling for work next week and the thought of sitting in a meeting room with a bunch of strangers with my vag on fire is not a good one!
Thanks for getting me through today, I’ll let you know how I’m getting along. Xx
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Well done for pushing for the appt and well done on the GP for giving the advice.
Let us know how you get on. R U able to postpone your part in the meeting next week? That will increase any anxiety.
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Thank you, feeling hopeful for a fix.
I can’t duck out of the meeting, and I’ve got to travel to the US for it. I’ve been very motivated to relieve some pain before being stuck on a plane for hours! Xx
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I really feel for you :-\
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Ugh, morning ladies,
My update is not a good one. I did the Clindamycin and it made zero difference. The swabs came back with candida but no action required as very low level (I self treated anyway). I have to say my very bad days are getting more frequent, I am getting worse rather than better. My vagina feels kind of scoured out, like it’s been washed out with bleach or something. I have terrible pressure and pain in my bladder about every other day now. I’ve had lots of GP appointments and feel like they’ve given up on me. I guess next steps are to try and see a gynae and urologist somehow.
Treatment wise I’m still doing Intrarosa plus Ovestin outside, and I’ve also now bought some Vagifem and I’m using those in the day time.
I’m so confused about what’s happening to me, my symptoms were completely under control for 8 months and since the Mirena infection disaster in October I’ve been going further downhill.
Meanwhile I took a long haul flight to the US for work yesterday, and I’m lying awake with jet lag and terrible bladder pains wondering how the hell I’m going to survive the week. I am in a very dark place right now.
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Are you able to bring it all down to just the vagifem that you have bought for now & stick with that for a while.
Using 3 products at a time you may not know where you are.
It was suggested by a member to someone else yesterday that if bought vagifem helps then thereafter get the gp to prescribe it.
There are many members on here
using vagifem & then ovestin in combo with some success.
Did you get back to newson health ?
It must be hard to concentrate on your work but hope it can be some distraction for you. A U shape cushion may help in meetings no one needs to know why you have one.
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Morning. Did U get there and back without too many problems?
Your GP should be referring you to an appropriate Clinic if nothing is easing symptoms. Could there be a low grade infection 'high up' after the Mirena issues?
Is there a Nurse Practitioner in your Practice who may be more knowledgable than the GPs?
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ps are you self treating candida with a one off fluconazole capsule I’ve been advised to treat it in that way initially rather than a cream or pessary. Avoids involving vaginal area.
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Well one thing for sure is you definitely need further investigation and your upcoming appointment in March will hopefully get all these horrible symptoms resolved, I remember them very well and know exactly what you are going through and I really feel for you!
Keep up with whatever treatment you have to throw at it, at this stage it might help eventually or it might not but at least you are giving it a good go and can report back to the specialist in March.
You are good at expressing yourself, keep notes and go well prepared for any questions asked.
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Thanks for your supportive responses all. I’m glad to say I’ve survived my week of work travel and am back home again.
So after a few days of bladder pain I decided to take a course of nitrofurantoin antibiotics I’d had the GP prescribe me “just in case” and it made the bladder pain go. So, despite a negative dip stick test seems I did have a UTI. VA wise I still have the scoured out feeling and am suspicious I have some deep rooted underlying infection. I’m going back to Newson Health on Monday to see if I can get some answers or at least the names of consultants I can see to help.
Hope you’re all doing well and wish you a great weekend xx
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Hope that it goes well for you on Monday.
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Thanks for your supportive responses all. I’m glad to say I’ve survived my week of work travel and am back home again.
So after a few days of bladder pain I decided to take a course of nitrofurantoin antibiotics I’d had the GP prescribe me “just in case” and it made the bladder pain go. So, despite a negative dip stick test seems I did have a UTI. VA wise I still have the scoured out feeling and am suspicious I have some deep rooted underlying infection. I’m going back to Newson Health on Monday to see if I can get some answers or at least the names of consultants I can see to help.
Hope you’re all doing well and wish you a great weekend xx
I once had symptoms of a UTI. The doctor told me to take my Nitrofurantoin but that didn't help so they gave me trimethoprim and that worked fairly quickly. I was never sure if I did have a UTI. The GP said antibiotics have an anti inflammatory effect so I might have had some inflammation triggered by sex. Thing is I've not had an episode like that since. I'm not confident of tests these days. They're so short staffed and stretched. I'm still waiting for my stomach biopsy results 3 months on.
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Tnx for the updates. sfreesto - let us know how you get on. Will U take a list of concerns with you?
ABs certainly eased VA symptoms 4 me. My GP diagnosed the condition when he read my notes = several samples not sent to a Lab., he was not impressed! I think Words Were Said :-\
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I will definitely be sharing my list of concerns and pushing for names of consultants I could try and tests to give a more definitive diagnosis. I accept I have VA, I’m just suspicious there is still something else underlying it all/making a previously controlled asymptomatic VA status now be a train wreck! It does worry me that I am only 49, and visually I don’t look atrophied. I’m sure the last GP I saw in person was thinking it was all in my head! Xx
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Two years ago when the 2 a week dose was not touching my VA symptoms my GP changed my prescription to a daily dose of Vagifem, when I sounded shocked at that she said its ok because it doesn't reach the blood stream.
I am fortunate that I didn't have any allergic effects from the Vagifem and subsequently Ovestin. I try to reduce the dose now and again simply because its nice to have a break from it all but I can only manage a day and the symptoms soon return, its amazing just how sensitive we all are down there!
sfreesto, Its bad enough that they can't seem to diagnose VA in the older woman let alone a much younger one, always antibiotics first it seems for the non existent bladder infection for most of us.
Hope you finally get answers next week.
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My friend is 49 and just got treatment for VA. She is already noticing visible changes too. I suppose it affects us all different and some aren't affected at all. L7cky people
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Hi all
I think I have VA but I feel stupid as am not 100% sure what it feels like. All I know is down there am very sore, I feel very tight, dry and really uncomfortable.
I am on HRT low dose and started Ovestin this week, I have been using it every night and all I have noticed is an increase in discharge and do feel a bit more lubricant at some points in the day.
As for sex I have not had sex for about 5 mths, am only 44 don’t have periods as had a hysterectomy.
My question is how do I know if it is VA or something else ? I keep thinking I need to go doctors and get it looked at but it’s hard to describe. I have had this before last year went to doctors they treated me for thrush but I know this is not thrush, I describe it sometimes like having a tampon in that’s been there too long or not in the right position.
Can anyone advise please xx
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What you describe sounds exactly like VA. Treatment can take a while to take effect, so keep going with the Ovestin.
JP x
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Thank you
I knew deep down it was VA, god am sat here crying thinking can things get any worse. (Well they can but it’s just rubbish going through all this)
I think I need to increase my patch too am only on 25 I feel the cream is such a small amount that it’s not doing much but I will defo keep going.
It’s so painful, reading stuff on google makes u think will my vagina ever feel right again.
Thank you
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Sounds like VA to me too, shame you are not having sex because that's the big tell all, afterwards if you have VA you burn like hell!
Another symptom is the constant need to pee, burning and a pain in the groin area.
The treatment does take a while to work but important not to give up and keep using it. A feminine moisturiser also helps too.
You will feel right again once the treatment gets to work.
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Thank you
Appreciate the reply x
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Bass1979 - stop reading GOOGLE - he don't know nowt ;)
And yes, there is hope.
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Yes it's really hard to accept the condition. I was mortified when I found out I had it and I didn't know it existed prior to that. I couldn't believe our vaginas could let us down in such a way. But stick with the treatment, it takes time and it is for life. I'm afraid it's the club no one wants to join!
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I do feel real sad about it
I really struggling with VA, bad heartburn which I have been on Lanzoprozole for years but it’s so bad at the min and shoulder pain.
Am just so glad I don’t have periods to add to it all.
I will contact with the treatment and see how I go thanks for the advice ladies I have really appreciate it x
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Morning Girls - nowt is stupid or silly on here!
VA responds well to treatment, the sooner it is started the better. VA mimics repeated urine infection-type symptoms really really well >:(. How ever much treatment U need initially, go with it to get the condition under control. If Medics argue, then refer them to MM ! Suggest too that they buy "Me and My Menopausal Vagina" ;-).
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Good evening ladies,
Here is my update from my follow up at Newson Health today…
Had a thorough examination and the verdict was that internally I have a very mild patches of atrophy (pale), but structure good and moisture ok. Externally there is improvement from last time but still have two almost fissures either side of the vaginal opening. The one on my right side is deeper and does correlate with more pain on that side.
Proposed treatment for the fissures is eumovate, but suggestion is GP should be able to do a two week referral for me to gynaecologist due to it being unusual (though no thought it might be cancerous).
The theory is the pain I’m in might be caused by the fissure pain triggering the pudendal nerve. A pelvic floor physio would be able to assess that for me.
Bladder irritation wise, right now I’m clear. If it comes back she suggested I should be referred for a cystoscopy to check for inflammation due to suspected biofilm/resistant infection.
Overall the thought is the treatment (Intrarosa plus Ovestin) is working, it just needs more time.
I feel ok with this. I have a plan.
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Tnx for the update.
OUCH!
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That all sounds painful. Hopefully you'll get somewhere now though
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Hi ladies
Back here again. I posted previously after having a major flare up of VA after 4 years of successfully using Vagifem. I was told to use Vagifem daily for two weeks but this made no difference. It is burning externally, particularly after passing urine (especially if urine is stronger, due to not drinking enough!) and this then makes me feel like I need the loo again.
I’ve now been on two weeks of daily Ovestin, internally and externally and, after about six days, it started to feel better. Now that I’m about to try to reduce it, it feels like I’m back at square one. I could honestly, just sit and cry. I’ve really had enough of it. I have tried Yes VM without much effect, but not whilst using the Ovestin so I guess I’ll try that tomorrow.
Is there really any hope? Starting to feel really down now. I remember my mum being like this, though I’m not sure that VA was a thing in those days and she thought it was cystitis. I remember her being on oestrogen cream though. Thanks so much.
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So sorry to hear your sadness and VA is the most distressing condition. I'm not sure how much help I can be as you say you've been okay for 4 years, but I needed to use ovestin every day for a couple of months after not getting it under control for months. Now I use it say 5 nights out of 7. I know women on here use it nightly. Is this a possibility for you? I think it is the only way to control it. I understand how you must feel as the condition really grinds you down.
Maybe others on here can advise also. What else has your GP said?
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So sorry to hear your sadness and VA is the most distressing condition. I'm not sure how much help I can be as you say you've been okay for 4 years, but I needed to use ovestin every day for a couple of months after not getting it under control for months. Now I use it say 5 nights out of 7. I know women on here use it nightly. Is this a possibility for you? I think it is the only way to control it. I understand how you must feel as the condition really grinds you down.
Maybe others on here can advise also. What else has your GP said?
Thank you @suzysunday. I really appreciate it. My own GP retired recently so I saw a couple of new ones. The first seemed okay and it was her who suggested daily Vagifem for two weeks, then try Ovestin if needed. As the increased Vagifem didn’t help, I saw another GP who seemed vague and prescribed the Ovestin after I asked. The box says “apply nightly until symptoms resolve, then twice weekly”. So I assume I’m okay to carry on using nightly now that two weeks are up. I’ve ordered some Yes OB to try in the daytime too.
I just want to know that one day (hopefully soon) it will feel better and I won’t be thinking about it all the time xx
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I use Vagifem and Ovestin every along with systemic HRT just to control the awful VA.
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It really needs to be kept on top of,. It's not good to have a vague GP. It is safe to use nightly and quality of life is so important. Would you try some systematic hrt also? I'm not on it but I really think I should be! Sounds a bit daft that! It's super a pain sorting out these bits of us that won't behave.
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I use Vagifem and Ovestin every along with systemic HRT just to control the awful VA.
Thanks, Tinkerbell. I don’t use systemic but the worst bit is the burning externally which is why I hoped using the external Ovestin might help. I’m a bit unsure whether it’s best to use internal Vagifem and external Ovestin or just Ovestin for both. Nothing seems easy xx
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It really needs to be kept on top of,. It's not good to have a vague GP. It is safe to use nightly and quality of life is so important. Would you try some systematic hrt also? I'm not on it but I really think I should be! Sounds a bit daft that! It's super a pain sorting out these bits of us that won't behave.
I’m totally with you. I’m not on systemic but think I should have been. The problem is that I had a surgical menopause over 9 years ago due to a borderline ovarian cyst, so I was unsure whether systemic would be allowed or not. I asked the consultant prior to discharge about it and he said, “ see your GP”!! I asked my GP who didn’t say much, just that I couldn’t be on it forever so would have to deal with menopause at some point! Grrrrr! So helpful. Since then, I’ve really struggled with anxiety (mainly health) and feeling low and tired. I think it’s probably too late to have systemic now and I know that I’d worry about side effects even more if I was on it. Menopause turns us into monsters I think :'( xx
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I use ovestin internally and externally. I'm not expert but I thought that you should have been offered hrt after the surgery. Obviously I don't know your circumstances, if cancer was present etc. the consultant sounds unhelpful. Also your GP sounds unhelpful as hrt can be taken as long as you need it, which can be a lifetime. I don't think it's ever too late for HRT. If you are suffering so badly then perhaps you need systemic as well. I know you you mean about anxiety and worry about side effects. Can you be referred to a menopause clinic? You could try some hrt out on a low dose and stop if it doesn't suit. You really need some proper help as you can't live well feeling like this. It just takes over your life. Xx
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Hello Patchsmama,
So sorry to hear you are struggling, I feel your pain, have been literally because the external burning and bladder irritation were my worst symptoms. If you read through this thread you will hear my tales of woe. I was fine for 8 months and have had bad spell since mid November. I don’t want to speak too soon but I think I have just turned a corner, having five days of feeling normal. I switched to Intrarosa daily and now at 6 weeks I think it is beginning to work.
You are definitely never too old to start systemic HRT, please do push for it. I started taking it for fatigue and brain fog and felt better within a couple weeks.
Good luck x
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Thanks so much for your support and letting me know about your experiences ladies. Systemic HRT is a difficult one for me. Because of the cyst, I’m not sure whether I’d be allowed it or not, plus if I was, I’m concerned that I would spend my whole time worrying about side effects I’ve never had any expert advice. The surgery I had was very traumatic for me and having to deal with immediate menopause was a bit like ptsd I guess. I’ve never felt supported and it’s been a lonely 9 years. Without my very understanding husband, I’m not sure where I’d be.
I’ll give it another two weeks on the Ovestin, then if no better, will go back to the GP again. I just get the feeling they want to get rid of you asap xx
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I understand totally about your doubts re systemic hrt. I am the same. I tried some a few years ago and had post menopause bleeding and subsequent investigation. All was clear and the bleeding stopped when I stopped the HRT. I've been on ovestin since and muster along but feel I should feel better. I keep thinking about trying systemic but get really anxious about side effects like you.
If you don't feel you have the support of your GP then that's a major put off.
I really hope you find some help and answers as you sound so unhappy, which I understand. I was devastated when diagnosed with VA and struggled to feel comfortable down there for ages. I get along okay now but it's always a worry, hoping it won't get worse. Keep posting on here for support x
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I understand totally about your doubts re systemic hrt. I am the same. I tried some a few years ago and had post menopause bleeding and subsequent investigation. All was clear and the bleeding stopped when I stopped the HRT. I've been on ovestin since and muster along but feel I should feel better. I keep thinking about trying systemic but get really anxious about side effects like you.
If you don't feel you have the support of your GP then that's a major put off.
I really hope you find some help and answers as you sound so unhappy, which I understand. I was devastated when diagnosed with VA and struggled to feel comfortable down there for ages. I get along okay now but it's always a worry, hoping it won't get worse. Keep posting on here for support x
I really appreciate your kindness. We do sound so similar. I really don’t think that most people have a clue about what menopause can be like for some women. I’m sorry you had that experience with HRT. This is what puts me off making the decision to go on it. When things are good “down there” I can cope most days but when they’re not, it feels like I’m wasting my life.
Can I ask one more thing? This morning, I went to the loo and noticed a blob of Ovestin in the loo!! I’m assuming this was from last night. I do put it up as high as possible as the instructions say but, if this is happening, I’m wondering whether I’m not getting the full benefit and should I go back to Vagifem internally? Ugh! What a carry on! I just need someone to say do this, do that and it will all be fine xx ::)
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Regarding blobs in toilet, I was concerned about this. My gp said the oestrogen would be absorbed as the blobs were the fillers. I have been using it 5 years or so and it is working to control VA so it must be okay. Regarding systemic as has been pointed out, we tend to hear negative news on here, many do fine on it.
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Regarding blobs in toilet, I was concerned about this. My gp said the oestrogen would be absorbed as the blobs were the fillers. I have been using it 5 years or so and it is working to control VA so it must be okay. Regarding systemic as has been pointed out, we tend to hear negative news on here, many do fine on it.
Thank you again. That’s really helpful :-*
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So sorry to hear your suffering. I had similar a few years ago and kept using more and more oestrogen until the burning was so bad I visited the Doctor and was given Canestan HC. This cured it in that instance. I needed to use less oestrogen going forward and not more, it can be very confusing as a thrush infection will burn just like VA, just it maybe worth a try?
Hope you feel better very soon
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For me I’ve had to cut back on the external Ovestin as it was making me burn, and I also needed a thrush treatment (I always take the oral pill for that). I think for my body it was too much (and it seems getting VA under control is a very individual experience) alongside the Intrarosa pessary I am using daily that melts and treats the external tissue too. I have now even managed to heal those wretched painful fissures with Dermovate. It is all very weird this VA how it can come on so suddenly, wreck your life for months, and then settle as quickly as it came!
Patchsmama, I understand your fear concerning systemic HRT, but I am thinking that if you have had a surgical menopause then you no longer have the tissues in your body that may pose a risk. Perhaps you could be referred to a menopause clinic, or if you could afford it then make an appointment with Newson Health (they do online as well as in person appointments)? Wishing you some peace from this. X
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So sorry to hear your suffering. I had similar a few years ago and kept using more and more oestrogen until the burning was so bad I visited the Doctor and was given Canestan HC. This cured it in that instance. I needed to use less oestrogen going forward and not more, it can be very confusing as a thrush infection will burn just like VA, just it maybe worth a try?
Hope you feel better very soon
Thank you so much. I did wonder about thrush but, on the rare occasion I’ve had it before, I’ve had the itching and white discharge, never the needing the loo feeling that I get with VA. The GP did take a look but all she said was it looks a bit dry. Ugh!
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For me I’ve had to cut back on the external Ovestin as it was making me burn, and I also needed a thrush treatment (I always take the oral pill for that). I think for my body it was too much (and it seems getting VA under control is a very individual experience) alongside the Intrarosa pessary I am using daily that melts and treats the external tissue too. I have now even managed to heal those wretched painful fissures with Dermovate. It is all very weird this VA how it can come on so suddenly, wreck your life for months, and then settle as quickly as it came!
Patchsmama, I understand your fear concerning systemic HRT, but I am thinking that if you have had a surgical menopause then you no longer have the tissues in your body that may pose a risk. Perhaps you could be referred to a menopause clinic, or if you could afford it then make an appointment with Newson Health (they do online as well as in person appointments)? Wishing you some peace from this. X
I think you are totally right when you say that VA is an individual thing. There seems to be so many different ways in which women are affected. The main thing I’m worried about with systemic HRT is breast cancer. I did have a GP trainee who explained it all to me a couple of years ago, re pros and cons, and he was very good but I just couldn’t bring myself to make the decision.
Things seem slightly calmer today, so I think I’m going to try to reduce the Ovestin and use Yes OB in between. It really shocked me how quickly and severely it flared up after 4 years.