Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Penguin on October 31, 2023, 03:13:06 PM
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Or, in other words, if I stop it all now, am I likely to have a rubbish Christmas???
Am 49, in peri, been taking estrogel (1-2 pumps) and utrogestan (200mg x 12 days) since January. The utrogestan phase has been getting worse and worse since the summer, and I simply cannot tolerate another month of it.
At least 3 months wait to get a coil put in on NHS. I am planning to see a private specialist early in the NY instead to see if I can persuade them to let me do lower dose utrogestan with scans. I'm too scared to risk it without supervision, so if they say no, then I'm going to try one of the coils and get that put in privately at the same appointment.
But I need to do something NOW. I took 100mg utrogestan rather than 200mg last night and today was better, not perfect but better. I am due to take the last one for this month on Thursday - there is no way I am taking 200mg for next three nights, i just can't.
I don't know what to do in the short term, thinking of stopping hrt entirely for a month or two and then starting afresh with the private guy in January. Or slowly reducing over a few weeks, but would welcome ideas on how to do that? Estrogel alternate days maybe 🤷♂️
So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Please help 🙏🙏🙏
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C how U feel on the 100mg? R U able to take it on alternative nights .........
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C how U feel on the 100mg? R U able to take it on alternative nights .........
I'm supposed to take 200mg for 12 nights. I could miss tonight do tomorrow, miss Thursday do Friday and then stop...
Do you think it is okay to suddenly stop the estrogel?
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U may not need to stop if a little less eases symptoms. Remind me, who over sees your prescriptions?
MayB put the name of the product into the search box to C if other threads pop up?
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U may not need to stop if a little less eases symptoms. Remind me, who over sees your prescriptions?
MayB put the name of the product into the search box to C if other threads pop up?
The GP does and has already said I can't reduce. I wouldn't want to risk it without supervision / scans. Seeing this private guy in London is my last hope really of being able to use it for a shorter duration and dose, but with supervision.
From what I've read, if you stop the estrogen suddenly then you run risk of rebound symptoms, but I can't find any advice on how to taper.
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Could U take a cancellaton/short appt with the private consultant?
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Could U take a cancellaton/short appt with the private consultant?
Yes that's a good idea, I'll suggest that.
I wonder if they have to put coil in at a certain time on my cycle, will have to Google that!
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Hi you can take 100mg of Utrogestan continuously but you may get breakthrough bleeding if you’re not post menopause .
If you want to stop hrt then you can stop “cold Turkey” or you can reduce the dose gradually. It’s not advisable to use Oestrogel on alternate days as this will cause fluctuations.
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Hi you can take 100mg of Utrogestan continuously but you may get breakthrough bleeding if you’re not post menopause .
If you want to stop hrt then you can stop “cold Turkey” or you can reduce the dose gradually. It’s not advisable to use Oestrogel on alternate days as this will cause fluctuations.
Okay thanks, thats good to know. I stop the utrogestan on Thursday so may just use half a pump for a few more days to get me over that big crash when I get the withdrawal bleed, then stop when my own estrogen starts rising.
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I think I might join u penguin. :(
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I think I might join u penguin. :(
Do it!!!
I actually feel a sense of relief now I've made the decision. Each month I've said it has to get better, but the progrsterone bit has just got worse and is doing god only knows what damage to my digestive system. Sat here with a banging headache and trying to psyche myself up to do the 100mg tonight 😥
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So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Last year, I stopped entirely (was on 25 mcg estradot patches and 5mg provera at that time)...mainly because I was having a hysteroscopy/ablation so it seemed a good time to try doing without — my GP always nagging at me to stop. So, I stopped HRT on 15 August and in early December my symptoms were back — primarily night sweats which destroyed sleep — and I was back on HRT by 19 Dec. So roughly 3 months give or take. (I had vowed to stick it out for 6, but caved after a couple of weeks of not getting much sleep.)
Since then, I found a meno specialist (I'm in New Zealand) and haven't seen my GP all year.
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So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Last year, I stopped entirely (was on 25 mcg estradot patches and 5mg provera at that time)...mainly because I was having a hysteroscopy/ablation so it seemed a good time to try doing without — my GP always nagging at me to stop. So, I stopped HRT on 15 August and in early December my symptoms were back — primarily night sweats which destroyed sleep — and I was back on HRT by 19 Dec. So roughly 3 months give or take. (I had vowed to stick it out for 6, but caved after a couple of weeks of not getting much sleep.)
Since then, I found a meno specialist (I'm in New Zealand) and haven't seen my GP all year.
Thanks, that is good to know! Three months would do me fine, tide me over until I see specialist in January. Was anxiety one of your reasons for going on hrt and did that come back?
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Penguin, I wish you well and hope this plane works well for you. 3 months kind of makes sense as the general advice is to wait three months for full effects to work when commencing hrt, or a new regime.
If you do go down the mirena coil route at some point, I know so have no regrets for doing so, utrogestan was just so wrong for me. Fingers crossed your body will accept the 3 months hiatus until you have the appt. X
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Penguin, I wish you well and hope this plane works well for you. 3 months kind of makes sense as the general advice is to wait three months for full effects to work when commencing hrt, or a new regime.
If you do go down the mirena coil route at some point, I know so have no regrets for doing so, utrogestan was just so wrong for me. Fingers crossed your body will accept the 3 months hiatus until you have the appt. X
Thank you SarahT, I'm really hopeful hearing positive stories of mirena and, at least getting it done privately, they've already told me I can have it out whenever I like and without any delays, so it is not irreversible. My health anxiety is such that it takes me soooo long to make decisions about anything medical related, so I'm glad I have finally reached a tipping point. Even two months would be good, I just hated the thought of going into December knowing that I'd be on the utrogestan when I have a lovely weekend taking my little girl away, and then also on Christmas day too 🙈.
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So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Last year, I stopped entirely (was on 25 mcg estradot patches and 5mg provera at that time)...mainly because I was having a hysteroscopy/ablation so it seemed a good time to try doing without — my GP always nagging at me to stop. So, I stopped HRT on 15 August and in early December my symptoms were back — primarily night sweats which destroyed sleep — and I was back on HRT by 19 Dec. So roughly 3 months give or take. (I had vowed to stick it out for 6, but caved after a couple of weeks of not getting much sleep.)
Since then, I found a meno specialist (I'm in New Zealand) and haven't seen my GP all year.
Thanks, that is good to know! Three months would do me fine, tide me over until I see specialist in January. Was anxiety one of your reasons for going on hrt and did that come back?
I definitely had anxiety, but I could never separate out whether the lack of sleep (due to night sweats) was the cause of the anxiety or whether the anxiety was its own thing. In my 'self' I felt like the lack of sleep was a primary cause of the anxiety because I'd had bouts of terrible insomnia+anxiety in my 30s, and I always associate the two. (Again, who knows which caused which!) Either way, yes, anxiety was a reason for HRT and it went away as my night sweats went away and I could get better sleep again. Not terribly, helpful I know.
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So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Last year, I stopped entirely (was on 25 mcg estradot patches and 5mg provera at that time)...mainly because I was having a hysteroscopy/ablation so it seemed a good time to try doing without — my GP always nagging at me to stop. So, I stopped HRT on 15 August and in early December my symptoms were back — primarily night sweats which destroyed sleep — and I was back on HRT by 19 Dec. So roughly 3 months give or take. (I had vowed to stick it out for 6, but caved after a couple of weeks of not getting much sleep.)
Since then, I found a meno specialist (I'm in New Zealand) and haven't seen my GP all year.
Thanks, that is good to know! Three months would do me fine, tide me over until I see specialist in January. Was anxiety one of your reasons for going on hrt and did that come back?
I definitely had anxiety, but I could never separate out whether the lack of sleep (due to night sweats) was the cause of the anxiety or whether the anxiety was its own thing. In my 'self' I felt like the lack of sleep was a primary cause of the anxiety because I'd had bouts of terrible insomnia+anxiety in my 30s, and I always associate the two. (Again, who knows which caused which!) Either way, yes, anxiety was a reason for HRT and it went away as my night sweats went away and I could get better sleep again. Not terribly, helpful I know.
It is actually really helpful, as it's given me things to plan ahead for, so thank you! I was always fine getting to sleep but the hot flash would wake me up with a start and a rush of cortisol at 3am or 4am and then the anxiety would kick in. I'm going to research things for sleep so I'm ready for it. Unfortunately the things that used to help, like 5htp, I can no longer take due to the anti depressant I am on. I might look into sage a bit more, perhaps if I start some of these things now, they'll be up and running in my system for when any symptoms would be coming back amd I can head them off.
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I was always fine getting to sleep but the hot flash would wake me up with a start and a rush of cortisol at 3am or 4am and then the anxiety would kick in.
Yes!! This. Horrible. After that, the monkey mind kicks in and it's all over!
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Hi Penguin,
How's it going? Obviously too soon to know about physical symptoms but just hoping you feel ok in yourself? X
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Hi Penguin,
How's it going? Obviously too soon to know about physical symptoms but just hoping you feel ok in yourself? X
Hi Sarah, yes I actually feel fine thanks. Last day I took utrogestan was Wednesday when I took a half dose. I was meant to take it on Thursday but I started spotting and by bedtime period had started so I gave it a miss. So Thursday was my last day of estrogel. I've slept fine, anxiety fine, was worried in the night that my finger joints were sore but they felt okay by the morning. My tummy has definitely been better, no upper tummy gas pain which I'd been getting with the utrogestan and no overheating. So far so good!
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Sounds good. You have thought this through well and the timings should work out, so fingers crossed.
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C how U feel on the 100mg? R U able to take it on alternative nights .........
Hi penguin
What were your symptoms? I've only been on hrt for 8 weeks and it's made me feel dreadful, increased anxiety, feeling sick, dizzy, not myself, loss of appetite and now horrendous acid reflux so stopped cold turkey just over a week ago I'm still having the increased anxiety and stomach cramps. Did you stop your hrt and how are ypu feeling now. I was wondering how long it took for hormones to rebalance back to pre hrt I'm rather desperate to feel better again! Thank you for reading
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C how U feel on the 100mg? R U able to take it on alternative nights .........
Hi penguin
What were your symptoms? I've only been on hrt for 8 weeks and it's made me feel dreadful, increased anxiety, feeling sick, dizzy, not myself, loss of appetite and now horrendous acid reflux so stopped cold turkey just over a week ago I'm still having the increased anxiety and stomach cramps. Did you stop your hrt and how are ypu feeling now. I was wondering how long it took for hormones to rebalance back to pre hrt I'm rather desperate to feel better again! Thank you for reading
On the utrogestan I was overheating, had upper GI stuff plus silent reflux that I'd never had before, depression, couldn't sleep due to overheating, not good. I stopped hrt on Wednesday so very early days. My finger joints have been sore again and I am feeling more tired than usual but I am also on my period so estrogen would be low anyway. I think too early to tell for me tbh but I will report back. I definitely feel overall calmer though and the mental relief of knowimg i dont have to do the utrogestan this month is great.
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Thank you
I'm nearly 2 weeks off it and not fully back to where I was before hrt but think I'm going in the right direction
Thanks for replying 🙂
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Thank you
I'm nearly 2 weeks off it and not fully back to where I was before hrt but think I'm going in the right direction
Thanks for replying 🙂
I had a bad night last night, defo due to the drop in estrogen, really tempted to whack some gel on today. Perhaps I shouldn't have done it cold turkey after all, but its not like I was on a high dose of estrogel 😥
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Penguin.
I jumped with you. Now I was only on progesterone.
My god. I've felt like death since stopping. Definitely think I should have tapered. Have now had a constant withdrawl headache since yesterday morn. Nothing takes it away. But I know it's withdrawl.
Realistically, I'm giving my body a month to find it's own rhythm again. And ..in all this awfulness, I'm not sure I'm any worse than I was on it.
Marsal, you're two weeks ahead. Let us know when you perk up. You will xxx
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Just wanted to send a hug to all those having an extra hard time of things x
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Penguin.
I jumped with you. Now I was only on progesterone.
My god. I've felt like death since stopping. Definitely think I should have tapered. Have now had a constant withdrawl headache since yesterday morn. Nothing takes it away. But I know it's withdrawl.
Realistically, I'm giving my body a month to find it's own rhythm again. And ..in all this awfulness, I'm not sure I'm any worse than I was on it.
Marsal, you're two weeks ahead. Let us know when you perk up. You will xxx
I'm giving it one whole cycle too. Felt better getting up and out. Early mornings seems to be the worst, I remember that from before I started the hrt.
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Just wanted to send a hug to all those having an extra hard time of things x
Thank you Sarah xxx
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Yes, thanks Sarah.
I'm grumpy as hell today. Like really grumpy!!! Good job I'm home alone for the best part of the day. >:(
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Or, in other words, if I stop it all now, am I likely to have a rubbish Christmas???
Am 49, in peri, been taking estrogel (1-2 pumps) and utrogestan (200mg x 12 days) since January. The utrogestan phase has been getting worse and worse since the summer, and I simply cannot tolerate another month of it.
At least 3 months wait to get a coil put in on NHS. I am planning to see a private specialist early in the NY instead to see if I can persuade them to let me do lower dose utrogestan with scans. I'm too scared to risk it without supervision, so if they say no, then I'm going to try one of the coils and get that put in privately at the same appointment.
But I need to do something NOW. I took 100mg utrogestan rather than 200mg last night and today was better, not perfect but better. I am due to take the last one for this month on Thursday - there is no way I am taking 200mg for next three nights, i just can't.
I don't know what to do in the short term, thinking of stopping hrt entirely for a month or two and then starting afresh with the private guy in January. Or slowly reducing over a few weeks, but would welcome ideas on how to do that? Estrogel alternate days maybe 🤷♂️
So back to original question, any idea how long before symptoms come back and any idea which will come back first please? My main ones were hot flushes at night which would wake me up with a start at 4am, constipation and increased health anxiety. I can handle the physical but not the anxiety- the estrogel has helped that but then it is all undone the minute I have to put utrogestan into my body 😥
Please help 🙏🙏🙏
Penguin I’m 47 and I take 100mg utrogestan continuously and 3 pumps Oestrogel, 2 in morning, 1 in early evening. I could never tolerate 200mg utrogestan- 100mg is plenty to do the job. My gp put me on that dose. It makes me sleep deeply. I have tried coming off hrt a couple of times in the past and was around the 9 day mark I started to feel I had to go back on it. More recently however I found just one night without utrogestan made me not sleep. So if I were you I would have a little break to get your progesterone levels down a bit, then go on 100mg utrogestan continuously. Xxx
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Have you tried using the utrogestan vaginally instead of orally? Apparently this can help negative side effects from the oral route, though doesn't work for everyone. You can take 100mg per night if it works ok for you, but it may cause different bleeding patterns.
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Have you tried using the utrogestan vaginally instead of orally? Apparently this can help negative side effects from the oral route, though doesn't work for everyone. You can take 100mg per night if it works ok for you, but it may cause different bleeding patterns.
I've only ever used it vaginally due to having gastritis previously, I just cannot take anything on an empty tummy. I have put in a call to my GP re the 100mg. I did a number of nights at 100mg last month, still not great, but better than the 200mg nights.
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Penguin I've just deleted my most recent post and sent you a message instead.x
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Penguin
Thanks for this post, I was on the patch for 6 weeks yes I know not long but was having migraines 2-3 times a week really affecting my every day life.
I was only on 25mg oestrogen as had a hysterectomy. However 4 days ago I came off it I could not tolerate it anymore. I did speak to my Gp no help whats so ever just made me so emotional.
4 days off the patch and 3 days of headaches have a headache while writing this, it’s getting me so low and making my health anxiety bad I just don’t know what to do any more.
Gp saying stay of the patch and try antidepressants I don’t know if that’s the best thing to do but clearly the patch does not agree with me.
Any advice ?
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Hi Penguin
Sorry to hear about your issues with utrogestan - the devil's weed!
When I stopped HRT suddenly some years ago - I went back on it after 3 months but it was before that when symptoms began creeping back - first the night-time overheating ( like when I first started becoming menopausal) which woke me up so I tossed and turned in bed, and then the sweats and flushes came back. What was worse were symptoms that I didn't have before which included a horrible pelvic-ache, a sort of heaviness ( presumably as everything dropped due to muscle laxity?). Also started to get the hot spotty itchy blotchy hot face - some form of menopausal acne though not acen type spots. All disappeared when I restarted HRT, never to return and I'm now 70....
Of course we all react differently, but in your position I would probably not want to risk the low oestrogen symptoms returning in time for Christmas and there would be no harm for a couple of months, in using 100 mg Utrogestan for day 14 days, instead of 200 mg - you are not going to develop endometrial hyperplasia in that time.
Also if you are still peri-menopausal, depending on when you ovulate, you will still be producing your own progesterone some months, which will help reduce the lining.
I am only suggesting this reduction in licensed dose on the basis that you are peri-menopausal and it's only for 2-3 months to tied you over Christmas until you manage to get the coil fitted hopefully?
All the best with whatever you decide anyway.
Hurdity x
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Penguin
Thanks for this post, I was on the patch for 6 weeks yes I know not long but was having migraines 2-3 times a week really affecting my every day life.
I was only on 25mg oestrogen as had a hysterectomy. However 4 days ago I came off it I could not tolerate it anymore. I did speak to my Gp no help whats so ever just made me so emotional.
4 days off the patch and 3 days of headaches have a headache while writing this, it’s getting me so low and making my health anxiety bad I just don’t know what to do any more.
Gp saying stay of the patch and try antidepressants I don’t know if that’s the best thing to do but clearly the patch does not agree with me.
Any advice ?
I don't know tbh, I have given up on day 6 and started the gel again, it was getting too bad for me 🤷♂️
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Hi Penguin
Sorry to hear about your issues with utrogestan - the devil's weed!
When I stopped HRT suddenly some years ago - I went back on it after 3 months but it was before that when symptoms began creeping back - first the night-time overheating ( like when I first started becoming menopausal) which woke me up so I tossed and turned in bed, and then the sweats and flushes came back. What was worse were symptoms that I didn't have before which included a horrible pelvic-ache, a sort of heaviness ( presumably as everything dropped due to muscle laxity?). Also started to get the hot spotty itchy blotchy hot face - some form of menopausal acne though not acen type spots. All disappeared when I restarted HRT, never to return and I'm now 70....
Of course we all react differently, but in your position I would probably not want to risk the low oestrogen symptoms returning in time for Christmas and there would be no harm for a couple of months, in using 100 mg Utrogestan for day 14 days, instead of 200 mg - you are not going to develop endometrial hyperplasia in that time.
Also if you are still peri-menopausal, depending on when you ovulate, you will still be producing your own progesterone some months, which will help reduce the lining.
I am only suggesting this reduction in licensed dose on the basis that you are peri-menopausal and it's only for 2-3 months to tied you over Christmas until you manage to get the coil fitted hopefully?
All the best with whatever you decide anyway.
Hurdity x
Thanks you Hurdity, I'm defo peri menopausal and actually probably still in what you called the late reproductive stage on another post earlier. My periods were monthly before hrt, but came as early as 25/26 days or as late as 33/34 days and were shorter amd lighter than before - big variation for me as I was always 30 days like clockwork when I was younger. I'd also had lots of symptoms including crippling anxiety, hotness at night sleep issues etc. I do ovulate most months, maybe all. So you've reassured me by saying it'd be okay to do 100mg for Nov and Dec cycles, and I plan on seeing the private doctor in January anyway. I defo cant be doing the 200mg during the Christmas week, it'd be awful. Waiting to hear what GP says too but he has not been re utrogestan so far, despite me only doing one pump of gel most months. Thanks for your advice.