Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: moonbeam121167 on October 30, 2023, 08:22:40 PM
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Can anyone please tell me if I am getting too much estrogen. I been on 2mg of oral hrt for around 10 to 11 years and thought as I am getting older I would try the patch again, the lovely nurse aggreed with me and gave me Everol 50mcg, that was on the 2nd October , the first 3 weeks was ok but this last week has been hell, really really bad depression, want to cry all the time, snapping at people, is it cause I am having too much estrogen or what, please I need advice.
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Well I'd think it is probably the opposite, not enough estrogen....
"One 50mcg patch is roughly equal to 1mg estrogen only tablet" https://balance-menopause.com/uploads/2021/10/Equivalent-doses.pdf
If you were on 2mg of oral HRT, you need at least 100mcg patch to be the equivalent of that. And some women don't absorb transdermally very well, so you might need even more than that - but if you still have symptoms at 100mcg, you should have bloods run to check it you are absorbing it...
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https://thebms.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/03-BMS-TfC-HRT-Practical-Prescribing-NOV2022-A.pdf
A 2mg tablet is the equivalent of a 50 patch but you may not absorb at the same rate so you might need a higher dose of oestrogen patch.
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I have the meno nurse ringing me tomorrow, cause today not feeling so miserable maybe a little heady. I dunno what to do, ask for another brand of patch or just throw in the towel and go back on the pills.
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Are you on sequi or conti progesterone? Just wondered if it's because you've recently started the progesterone phase.
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No I am on estrogen only hrt as I had a total hysterectomy in 2012 and was on mostly 2mg of oral hrt, but have just changed tp the patch as I was told it is a healthy option as I am now 56
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Hmm, why does the info conflict on those 2 documents re the equivalent dosage?
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Hi again all
I was changed from the patches to Sandrena 1mg and so far I feeling ok, I am hoping and prayering things will get even better.
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Fingers crossed you will continue to feel better - I remember your story from a few years back, and your struggle to find the right oestrogen and the right dose.
Hurdity x
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Hi moonbeam, same scenario as me. I changed from 2mg tablet only 5 weeks ago to estradot 75mcg was told 100 mcg but I think with residual tablet 100 was too much so I started with 75, and I’m feeling as you were on patch. I have heard others have good results on sandrena, please keep us updated as I may ask for change if this doesn’t get better.
I doubt v much 50 was too much for you.
I got confused as on some charts it says 2mg oral Equiv to 50 patch and on Newsons it’s 100 patch. Has anyone else found this? X
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Floral
I was told by my meno nurse that changing from 2mg tablet is equiv to 50 patch but I just didnt get on with the patch which was Everol, I rung her and was going to ask for another brand of patch but she said nahh try the gel, it was fab for 2 days but Tuesday night / morning ni I woke with awful nausea, I actually thought I was going to be sick and today its really bad, I had Stemetil anti sickness pills so I had one this morning and now its coming back so I have taken another one, is this normal anyone, is it a side effect that will go after a while , the gel is easy to use, tries quickly and menopause wise I feel ok but its this nausea OMG its awful :'( :'( :'(.
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Hurdity
I was good on the pills but after talking to my meno nurse she thought like me is either patch or gel is the best as I am getting older hence the change, the first day and a bit I felt good but in the early morning of Tuesday I woke up with severe nausea I thought I was going to be sick and some stomach pain :'( :'( :'( :'(, reading some blurb online is its a known side effect and will go, lucky I had some Stemmil anti sickness pills which I have had and touch wood it wont last .
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Hi
Well after nearly two weeks and the nausea is still here, I am using the Sandrena gel in the mornings and today about an hour or so I felt god awful sick but today yet again terrible depression, really miserable, I know I have to give it time but how long shall I give it and shall I apply it at night just before I go to bed, I never had any of this when using the pill HRT, but as I am getting older I thought the transdermal route would be kinder and safer, please please has anyone got any help or advice please.
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Evening
I really really need help, its now 3 weeks on 1mg Sandrena gel and oh god I am still feeling like crap, terrible nausea, feeling reaaly miserable and my IBS is in melt down, I am slowly regetting changing to the gel, thought by now I would be feeling better but NO I know the gel and patch is better and you get the whole estrogen as the pill has to go through the liver so you dont get the whole amount, could it be after using 2mg of Zumeron for about 11 yrs the 1mg gel is too much, can anyone please help or advice .
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I'd just try halving your estrogen and see how you feel on that. Half the 1mg sachet. It's really about experimentation...
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Hi
do you think its cause I am now having too much estrogen, was all good on 2mg Zumeron oral HRT but since changing to a transdermal HRT I have felt so miserable, , awful nausea and today a god awful headache, thought I wouldnt put any gel on and then tomorrow evening just put half on. Anyone please help.
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I wouldn't vary it, but choose a lower dose and stick to that for a few weeks and see how you feel. A lot of this is trial and error and your body will absorb transdermal very differently to oral so it's like starting from scratch and trying to find your dose to be honest.
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Joziel
I know people have said that you loose alot of estrogen with the oral HRT as it goes thought the liver first so probally /obviously not getting the full lot, now with the gel am I getting a full hit hence why I feel like crap, its been over 3 weeks and I would of thought I would start feeling better, ok I am not so nauseaous but it still niggles but my head feels heavy, and worse I feel miserable and this afternoon a bad head, i do think I am getting too much, I am over 56 and been on HRT since 2012 and do not want to start on high doses, I want a maintain a steady dose .
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Evening all
its been 4 weeks and the nausea isnt too bad at all but OMG my headaches are bad really really bad, I dropped to 1/2 a 1mg sachet and still not good, think I am going to give up and go back on Zumeron 2mg. >:( :(
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So sorry you are having such a tough time I really feel for you. Everyone is different in what suits them. I was on Oestrogel for over 20 years till the shortages and was then swopped around from spray to patches etc and felt awful. When Oestrogel came back available I swopped back with joy thinking all would be well - it certainly wasn't. Something in the gel has most definitely changed and I felt even worse despite being on the dose I had been on all those years. I was given a blood test for oestradiol levels and my level came back at only 55 and the Meno consult said I might as well not be on HRT at all. I was swopped onto Estradot patches (Evorel ones gave me the most horrendous migraines) and they are magic for me. They stick well too and have never come off and are a lot smaller than Evorel. It took quite a while to get the dose right and the patch change times right (I change mine every 2 days) It really is all about finding which type suits you best, getting the dose right and giving it time to work - easily said but can really take time to get it right and women absorb different products differently. I do hope you feel better soon and can find what suits you best and at what dose x
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Pippa52
thanks for the reply, I was great on Zumeron but changed them as I was hoping the transdermal route would be better and safer but I had awful time on Everol and now on Sandrena 1mg , the nausea is bad and now headaches, what I did yesterday was put half of the sachet in the morning and the other half about 8pm and going to try that for a while,
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So sorry you are having such a tough time I really feel for you. Everyone is different in what suits them. I was on Oestrogel for over 20 years till the shortages and was then swopped around from spray to patches etc and felt awful. When Oestrogel came back available I swopped back with joy thinking all would be well - it certainly wasn't. Something in the gel has most definitely changed and I felt even worse despite being on the dose I had been on all those years. I was given a blood test for oestradiol levels and my level came back at only 55 and the Meno consult said I might as well not be on HRT at all. I was swopped onto Estradot patches (Evorel ones gave me the most horrendous migraines) and they are magic for me. They stick well too and have never come off and are a lot smaller than Evorel. It took quite a while to get the dose right and the patch change times right (I change mine every 2 days) It really is all about finding which type suits you best, getting the dose right and giving it time to work - easily said but can really take time to get it right and women absorb different products differently. I do hope you feel better soon and can find what suits you best and at what dose x
Hi Pippa, my oestrodial levels are also.low on oestrogel. Did you get levels of 55 when hadn't applied the gel that morning,can you recall? ie 24 hours had passed since last applied
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Bungo
I havent had my levels check, as I said I was fine on the hrt pill but ever since trying patches and gel I have been feeling awful, sickness unbearable sometimes and now headaches, I have not used any for 2 days, thought I will go back on the Zumeron Monday.
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Hi moonbeam121167!
Sorry to hear you're feeling awful. I wouldn't assume the headaches are caused by high estrogen.
"A headache can be triggered any time there is a fluctuation in estrogen levels, including when there is a dip in estrogen levels around the time of your menstrual cycle. Women may also experience more headaches around the start of menopause and when they undergo hysterectomy."
I wish you'd had a blood test to check your estradiol level while you were on transdermal to see how well you're absorbing. Some of us don't absorb well.
I'm a poor absorber. When I was on Estradot 50, my estradiol was <40 pmol. I wasn't absorbing, so I was switched to 2 mg oral estradiol. As an experiment, my new meno doctor switched me to Estrogel. I had a blood test earlier this week. After 3 months on 3 pumps of Estrogel, my estradiol was <40 pmol. I'm not absorbing it either. I think that rules out transdermal estrogen for me. I switched back to oral estrogen this morning. I have a doctor's appt in Jan, so I'll be re-evaluated at that point.
I don't know where you are in your meno journey. If you're postmeno and using transdermal estrogen, blood tests can be very useful to your doctor. When I called the meno clinic and told the nurse that I didn't think I was absorbing and described my symptoms, she emailed me a lab requisition for the blood test. It's important that you keep your doctor informed about your symptoms so they can understand how you respond. You're a unique puzzle and what you're experiencing is a piece of that puzzle.
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I gave in this morning and took a pill I cant keep on messing around I having been having bad nausea for about 5 weeks and now headaches, there was nothing wrong before changing I only changed cause I was told and read that transdermal is a safer option but I must be like you not absorbing it properly. I am ringing the meno nurse Monday to tell her and will ask for a test, thanks for your advice Ana21.
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Since you've already restarted the oral estrogen, a blood test at this point will not tell you how much you were absorbing transdermally.
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Oh yah didnt think, I am hoping now as I have restarted the oral HRT I will start to feel better, as the depression and nausea was awful this afternoon and its only been like this since trying transdermal HRT, yes I have suffered from depression but I had been feeling netter untill I started messing with my HRT so I am praying things will get better now I am back on the pills.
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Well
a week on the pills and still feeling awful. terrible nausea, my stomach feels yucky , my head feels well out of sorts, like a nagging headache, just feeling horrible, I wish to god I never messed around in the first place, when will I ever feel better.
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Evening all
its now 2 weeks today and my headaches are fine but I am still having issues with my IBS , my poor stomach keeps burning, terrible nausea just cant eat all my food, oh god I so wish I never started messing with my HRT or even my other pills as I felt good before, can anyone out there advise, its making me so miserable.
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Please can anyone help, my poor stomach is burning like hell, unbearable nausea, I know people say I shouldnt use oral HRT if I have stomach problems but the reason I am suffering is after about 11 years I tried to change from oral HRT to transdermal but just couldnt get enough estrogen on either patch nor gel so had to go back on the pills , that was 2 weeks ago and I am having no meno symptoms except this really really bad nausea and burning stomach and I now its cause I messed around with my HRT and wish I didnt as I was great before, how long will this last I just cant cope. :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Sounds like gastritis. Are you having food before taking the hrt tablet? It may be irritating your stomach lining.
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Hi
I have always even before I tried changing taken it while eating my breakfast, I felt fantastic before I started messing around with my HRT, I now its something to do with the HRT but thought after 2 weeks things would start getting better but OMG I feel bad, cant eat much, its the constant nausea and my poor stomach, I take Lansoprazole every morning , do I need to be patient or what.
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These aren't really common HRT side effect symptoms, nausea and vomiting. It may well just be a coincidence that you switched HRT types and something else started up around the same time. But it's been going on long enough that I think you need to go to your GP and ask for some investigations and a referral really...
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Joziel
I know it isnt the HRT thats causing the nausea but I think since I started messing around with the HRT on the 2nd OCT its put my hormones out of synic and has cause my IBS to rear its ugly head, when I first started HRT in 2012/13 I had bad nausea and was told it was IBS cause by menopause and stuff and have been good ever since now, oh I wish I never messed around with my HRT and I wouldnt be suffering.
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I had about a week of feeling almost normal untill this morning, I work up ok had my breakfast and as always had my hrt pill and about 30mins later felt awful, burning pain and nausea, I dunno what to do, I will try in the morning to see if I can talk to the meno nurse to see what she suggests, maybe I will ask her for Estradot as I didnt like Everol it gave me awful PMS type feelings and didnt like Sandrens, as I think the Estradiol pill is burning my poor stomach.
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I had about a week of feeling almost normal untill this morning, I work up ok had my breakfast and as always had my hrt pill and about 30mins later felt awful, burning pain and nausea, I dunno what to do, I will try in the morning to see if I can talk to the meno nurse to see what she suggests, maybe I will ask her for Estradot as I didnt like Everol it gave me awful PMS type feelings and didnt like Sandrens, as I think the Estradiol pill is burning my poor stomach.
Do you mean upper stomach? So right after eating and hrt pill? Did you eat first? What did you have for breakfast? I am still wondering if this is gastritis and you couldvtry treating it as such. For sure, eat your breakfast before taking the hrt pill so you are having it on a full stomach. And avoid anything that will further irritate the stomach lining for the time being. For example when I had gastritis I couldn't have coffee or juice for ages, or any citrus fruits or tomatoes. Then when I did start having coffee again, I only had it once my tummy was lined with food.
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Perhaps you would be better off with transdermal estrogdn rather than a tablet.
I also think you should check in with the GP if you have frequent nausea and vomiting. Vomiting is something they would likely want to look into in vase you have an ulcer or something.
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I had been on oral HRT for around 11 years and always taken it half way through eating my breakfast and was 100 % its only been bad since I tried changing from oral HRT to firstly Everol which mad me feel miserable to then Sandrena which also made me feel yuck hence why I went back on the pill and that was nearly a month ago and for the rifst 3 weeks feeling really bad and for the last few days feeling nearly 100% but today bang bad again, I honestly dont know what to do for the best, I am afraid to try say Estradot patch as what if that dont work.
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Hi all
my GP has agreed for me to give Estradot patches but have noticed they only given me 37.5 mcg and I am/was on 2mg of Estradiol pill and before that I tried Everol 50mcg and then Sandrena 1mg so 37.5 mcg is too low isnt