Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: FayeZ on October 10, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
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Just came across a worrying article about a study which apparently showed that "Vasomotor symptoms during menopause -- like hot flashes -- were linked to worse Alzheimer's disease biomarker profiles". I've been woken up at nights by night sweats for many years now.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/nams/106584
Also this article: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/common-menopause-symptom-indicate-higher-31151923
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I would imagine loss of estrogen is probably the main cause of a lot of age related conditions in women.
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I havne't read the links yet: who funded the research and is it Peer reviewed?
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I havne't read the links yet: who funded the research and is it Peer reviewed?
If you go to the first link it says at the bottom who funded the research and the journal it appeared in which looks repiutable and I imagine, as such, was peer reviewed. You're right to question any of these headlines which can sometimes be sensational or misrepresent the message!
FayeZ it was a longtudinal study which looked at women over a period of time and cannot demonstrate any causal relationships. I really would not worry but concentrate on doing what you can to keep your brain as active as possible.
I don't know where you are in menopause but if you have been troubled with night swaets for years then HRT will eliminate them in most women - if you are able and willing to take it.
However a more in depth study would be needed to determine whether it is the actual night sweats themselves, or the potential to have them (even if they are eliminated by HRT), that gives the association. For example I had terrible night sweats and hot flushes before starting HRT at age 54 (now aged 70), but I haven't experienced them for years as I still take HRT.
As Deidre says - I would imagine loss of estrogen is probably the main cause of a lot of age related conditions in women.
Hurdity x
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I have night flushes. Maybe thats why i have to go through the alphabet to remember peoples names! If you read reliable research about possible contributors to alzheimers and other dementia, there are a number. Theyre still exploring what's significant i think. We can only make sure we eat well, exercise, remain social, avoid harmful substances (smoking, drug use, alcohol ) and take care of our health as best we can. Tall order I know. My dad had vascular dementia.
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Hurdity - that is much appreciated :thankyou:
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My anxiety levels are not good at the best of times without worrying news like this.
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It seemed to fit with something I remember a friend talking about a few years ago which might have been this research into possible connections between sleep disruption and Alzheimer's disease symptoms.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Care-and-cure-magazine/Autumn-17/disrupted-sleep
It does say at the end that more research is needed.
I used HRT patches between about 2014 and 2018 (which reduced night sweats to one a night) but then had to stop using them before having a total hysterectomy. I'm now 62 and still being woken up 2 or 3 times a night. I've tried a soya supplement and Promensil red clover without much effect.
I am trying to keep my brain active but do still feel a bit anxious.
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FayeZ
I used HRT patches between about 2014 and 2018 (which reduced night sweats to one a night) but then had to stop using them before having a total hysterectomy. I'm now 62 and still being woken up 2 or 3 times a night. I've tried a soya supplement and Promensil red clover without much effect.
I take it this means you are not on HRT now. Is that an option for you? I'm early 60s like you & have had total hysterectomy. I've been on HRT for some years & though it helps with other symptoms, nearly 2 decades on from onset I still struggle badly with overheating every night, currently around 4-5 times a night & of course the dreadful related insomnia. It's really troublesome & a worry, I agree. HRT has controlled the overheating much better in the past so that at times I was down to only 1 or 2 a night as you say you were, but I'm currently getting very inconsistent absorption from my patches so in the process of trying to improve that. I just wondered whether you could consider starting HRT again if there's no contraindication, especially if you're in a position now to take oestrogen only or oestrogen & testosterone, so avoiding the progesterone that's so troublesome for some of us. Progesterone always made me way too hot & badly worsened the insomnia. If progesterone was a problem for you too, a regimen free of it might get rid of your night sweats altogether.
Wx
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Wrensong, Can you take oestrogen without progesterone like you said, maybe with testosterone? Doesn't oestrogen alone encourage thickening of the womb lining!
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My anxiety levels are not good at the best of times without worrying news like this.
Im anxious about health but try not to worry. Supposed links between certain things and disease frequently mentioned and some are tenuous or in the early stages of research or are simply unfounded. We would all be insane if we gave our attention to all of the reported links. My mother tells me about them on a weekly basis, she reads the health section of the daily mail.
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Wrensong, Can you take oestrogen without progesterone like you said, maybe with testosterone? Doesn't oestrogen alone encourage thickening of the womb lining!
FayeZ has had a hysterectomy so she could use oestrogen only HRT.
Taz x :)
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suzysunday
Can you take oestrogen without progesterone like you said, maybe with testosterone? Doesn't oestrogen alone encourage thickening of the womb lining!
Yes, progesterone is absolutely necessary as part of an HRT regimen for the protection of the endometrium with an intact uterus, but FayeZ stated that she had had a hysterectomy & so I have I. :) Even after hysterectomy some women are advised not to take oestrogen without progesterone e.g. if they had endometriosis with the possibility that some plaques still remain after surgery.
I don't know FayeZ's medical circumstances but there may be other reasons it would be unwise for her to resume HRT.
Wx
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Thank you Wrensong for the reply. And Jules, you are right about the constant cause and effect in health matters. It's best to be aware but not let it all get in your heads
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Faye said she had endometrial intraepithelial neoplasia (EIN). Regarding the study... why only 'vasomotor symptoms during sleep'? They shoulg have included a control group with vasomotor symptoms during the day so they could rule out disrupted sleep as one of the factors that can influence plasma levels of the Alzheimer's biomarker. I know a woman who sleeps like a log but has a dozen hot flushes during the day. I wish scientists would focus their research on the link between hot flushes and adrenal glands, they secrete neurotransmitters and have a direct effect on the brain.
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'Thurston reported relationships with Astellas, Bayer, and Hello Therapeutics.' Just saying...
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Hi Sage
Faye said she had endometrial intraepithelial neoplasia (EIN)
Sorry if I have missed something but I can't see mention of that on this thread. Do you mean on another thread?
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Hi SageFaye said she had endometrial intraepithelial neoplasia (EIN)
Sorry if I have missed something but I can't see mention of that on this thread. Do you mean on another thread?
Yes, her introduction post on the New Members board. Just click on her name > Show posts and scroll down to her first post.
I don't know how to quote a post from another thread ;D
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Yes, in 2018 I was diagnosed with endometrial intraepithelial neoplasia (EIN) and had a total hysterectomy to remove "precancerous cells". After the op I was told that a "final pathological report has come back from the laboratory following your operation. This has confirmed that there is no evidence of any cancer" which was a huge relief.
After the op the hot flushes and night sweats came back and I thought I would try non-hormonal options, most recently I've been taking A Vogel Menopause Support. My GP referred me for some online cognitive behaviour therapy earlier this year. The material on worrying and anxiety was useful (I just have to remember to use it!). When I'm worrying about something it definitely makes night sweats worse (surge of adrenaline?).
I've read Managing Hot Flushes and Night Sweats: A Cognitive Behavioural Self-help Guide to the Menopause by Myra Hunter up until the point where I should do some practical exercises. Has anyone found these helpful?
I think my memory is getting worse but this could just be due to not getting enough sleep.
I think Rebecca Thurston is a genuine women's health academic https://www.sph.pitt.edu/directory/rebecca-thurston
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Coincidentally I was reading some australian research about Alzheimers and dementia and downloaded their app to check brain health, BrainTrack. I'm doing ok, which is reassuring as i do worry when i have to go through the alphabet to recall names and i have night sweats. It doesn't tell you what you got wrong though. If nothing else, it's more interesting than a crossword.
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Hi Faye, I don't doubt she is a genuine women's health academic. It's just that the pharmaceutical companies sponsor research that is interesting for profit.
If the cells were not precancerous, why can't you have HRT? Or is it because you don't want to?
I haven't read the book but I think it's an interesting approach to menopause symptoms. Let us know if you find the exercises helpful :-*
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I havne't read the links yet: who funded the research and is it Peer reviewed?
If you go to the first link it says at the bottom who funded the research and the journal it appeared in which looks repiutable and I imagine, as such, was peer reviewed. You're right to question any of these headlines which can sometimes be sensational or misrepresent the message!
FayeZ it was a longtudinal study which looked at women over a period of time and cannot demonstrate any causal relationships. I really would not worry but concentrate on doing what you can to keep your brain as active as possible.
I don't know where you are in menopause but if you have been troubled with night swaets for years then HRT will eliminate them in most women - if you are able and willing to take it.
However a more in depth study would be needed to determine whether it is the actual night sweats themselves, or the potential to have them (even if they are eliminated by HRT), that gives the association. For example I had terrible night sweats and hot flushes before starting HRT at age 54 (now aged 70), but I haven't experienced them for years as I still take HRT.
As Deidre says - I would imagine loss of estrogen is probably the main cause of a lot of age related conditions in women.
Hurdity x
The voice of reason as ever, thank you Hurdity. I'm a bit sick of the negative stuff in the media about menopause. I wish they would stop - are they trying to get us down?? I am going to have a break from reading online or listening to or watching the news.
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FayeZ, thank you for the clarification. I understand why you've been pursuing alternatives to HRT. Yes, night sweats are definitely worse during periods of increased stress. The Myra Hunter book looks interesting; would you recommend it?
Wx
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It could be simply that night sweats cause poor sleep. And poor sleep is a risk factor for Alzheimers. (Sleep being when the brain cleans itself out, to put things simply.)
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It could be simply that night sweats cause poor sleep. And poor sleep is a risk factor for Alzheimers. (Sleep being when the brain cleans itself out, to put things simply.)
I think that's a more logical explanation
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Hmmm, I think they have ruled it out judging by this '"In addition, the association between hot flashes and this Alzheimer's disease biomarker was not explained by sleep or estrogen (...)'
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Hi FayeZ
By all means explore non-hormonal options but as you've had your womb removed you are no longer at risk from endometrial cancer. The contra-indications to HRT are here:
"Pregnancy
Undiagnosed abnormal vaginal bleeding
Active or recent blood clot or myocardial infarction (heart attack)
Suspected or active breast or endometrial (womb) cancer
Active liver disease with abnormal liver function tests
Porphyria cutanea tarda"
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/contraindications.php
So if you do not have success with other options then do reconsider - there is no need to suffer and have all the worry that goes with it. There are risks of course with everything but quality of life is a very important consideration!
All the best
Hurdity x
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After my operation in 2018 I thought that maybe the HRT had just postponed my body adjusting to a lower level of oestrogen so I didn't want to start HRT again. I hoped that non-hormonal methods might tide me over until my body adjusted but this hasn't happened (I'd also hoped that things would improve naturally between 2011 and 2014 when I was finally prescribed HRT patches so I should have known better.)
I'm taking the A Vogel soya supplement which I thought was working last autumn, but it was probably just the weather getting colder. Now trying a new alternative, cognitive behavioural therapy. I've read the first few chapters of 'Managing Hot Flushes and Night Sweats: A Cognitive Behavioural Self-help Guide to the Menopause' but not got onto the four-week self-help guide yet. It appears to be about getting women to have a less negative attitude towards the menopause and feel more in control. I have found that slowing down my breathing does make the night sweats less intense.
https://www.womens-health-concern.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/02-WHC-FACTSHEET-CBT-WOMEN-FEB-2023-A.pdf
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Hi FayeZ. Is there any reason why you can't resume HRT? Hot flushes and sweats can be really debilitating and you've been putting up with them for a few years now it seems.
Taz x.
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I could probably consider HRT again as my operation was successful and no further treatment was needed. As well as hoping that I was getting to the end of the hot flushes/night sweats naturally I'd also been worried that because I'm now over 60 it would increase possible risks from HRT.
NHS website says: "If you're under 60 years old, have menopause symptoms, and are not at high risk of breast cancer or blood clots, the benefits of HRT are likely to outweigh the risks."
https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/hormone-replacement-therapy-hrt/benefits-and-risks-of-hormone-replacement-therapy-hrt/
I have varicose veins and a GP in 2014 was reluctant to prescribe HRT because of increased risk of blood clots. However she wrote to the Menopause Clinic and they must have said it was ok as I did get the patches eventually.