Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: discogirl on August 07, 2023, 04:02:24 PM
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Hi all,
I wondered if anyone could shed some light or give some advice on my erratic sleeping pattern. For me before being post meno, sleep was never an issue. I was abouit 4yrs post meno (last feb) when I started with insomnia and chronic anxiety.
Since being on the gel (3 pumps) my sleep has definately improved; however lately my sleep has started to slip back. I slept well for 17 nights in a row then all of sudden I'm back to taking hours and hours to get to sleep.
As my previous posts have suggested my boobs have also been sore. I have toyed with the idea that it could be that my estrogen is too high as I have put a lot of weight on in the past year. I'm was on cyclogesi 100mg, which I have just today increased to about 170mg (by cutting the pessary) just to see if it's the progesterone.
Any help would be great and thanks very much x
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Hiya disco,
Although I am still peri, my sleep patterns really fluctuate. I was sleeping solidly a couple.of years ago, straight off, not much waking me. Then it all went pearshaped. Okay getting to sleep but waking up what felt like 100 times in the night. Maybe a combo of arthritic pain, night sweats and husband's snoring. Made me a zombie.
I took otc sleeping tablets which helped to a point. Then they stopped working. Back to sleepless nights. I know thinking about not being able to sleep made it worse, I wasn't too tired in the day but just laying there fretting was pitiful.
Anyhow, am now on a very low dose AD, to address anxiety and horrific moodswings. The benefit is also it helps me sleep. I have the odd bad night, but sleep better than before. I can feel a bit drowsy in the day sometimes,but a small price to pay. I no longer dread going to bed.
My gp will not up my patch any further ( estradot 125) and I have the mirena coil for my progesterone.
Don't know if it helps, but this is my own sleep experience.
As always I wish you well.
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Hi SarahT
thanks so very much.
it always helps hearing what helps other ladies with their sleep.
i already take 10mg amitlrypline for nerve pain. at first this helped me sleep but after about 6 mths it didnt. ive been taking it for 16 mths now. i actually take this in the morning now. i would love to come off it however as it gives rebound insomnia im not up for that just yet.
thanks so much for your reply and take care xx
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Hi disco
I take 50mg amitriptyline for nerve pain and it also helps sleep. Rebound insomnia is a thing with amitriptyline so you gave to taper off slowly if you want to come off it.
However 25mg might help you sleep again?
It is an essentially a very safe drug and not addictive in the sense that you shouldn’t experience grim withdrawal symptoms.
Have you tried essential oils such as clary sage/ patchouli? They can be calming. Lemon balm?
Xx
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Clary sage!!
I forgot, years ago I took a bath with some clary says essential oil ( always always check any oil is safe to use near or on the skin and in what dilution etc,,) and that was the one and only time I dared use it... I went to bed and slept solidly for 12 hours. I don't think I even moved from my original position. So in that single instance it certainly worked
But I stress again, essential oils can be so helpful but must be used carefully. Do read up on any oil and how to use it safely and in what circumstances.
I still use lavender oil on a tissue next to my bed every night, and also on my forehead if I have a headache.
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Hi SarahT
I'll have a read up Clary sage, thank you.
I do think it's either my progesterone which isn't high enough or maybe my estrogen that needs adjusting, time will tell.
Thanks so very much for replying and for all your help, its really appreciated, thank you xx
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Hello,
My remedy for a good nights sleep involves an Epsom salt bath (there’s a lovely one you can buy which includes lavender oil), a herbal cup of tea by Twinings called ‘sleep’ which includes valerian, and I take a magnesium supplement in the evening. If I do all three of these I sleep through the alarm. If I don’t do any I lay awake all night worrying.
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hi Ermin2trude
I have tried various sleepie teas. The epsom salt bath sounds wonderful however we only have a walk in shower!!
i used to take magnesium glycinate non buffered by love life supplements however im on amitrypline and tbey interact for me.
I really appreciate the suggestions though.
thanks for replying and take care xx
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Hi discogirl, can you take valerian as a supplement with amitryptaline? I have a sleep one called valdrian which is good and doesn't react with citalopram but I don't know about your AD.
I am assuming you probably can't use 5-HTP with your AD, I know you can't with an SSRI but that would be another option if you could.
My final suggestion would be to see if your GP would prescribe melatonin, even a low dose of 1mg has helped me before. I don't know how old you are but they do give it short term for insomnia on the NHS for those over a certain age, I think 55.
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Hi disco
I take 50mg amitriptyline for nerve pain and it also helps sleep. Rebound insomnia is a thing with amitriptyline so you gave to taper off slowly if you want to come off it.
However 25mg might help you sleep again?
It is an essentially a very safe drug and not addictive in the sense that you shouldn’t experience grim withdrawal symptoms.
Have you tried essential oils such as clary sage/ patchouli? They can be calming. Lemon balm?
Xx
Hi Nas,
Thought I'd nailed 17 nights straight I slept well!!!
Yes with amitrypline I took it at night but then it literally stopped working and had the opposite effect on me, so I take it in the mornings now, just a low dose. I tried all doses at night, but eventually none of them worked. I'd love to come off it but I don't feel strong enough mentally or physically just yet.
No I haven't tried any essential oils yet, I've just increased my cyclogest so I will see how that goes first, after that with the sore boobs I will decrease my gel by a half but I will wait to see how I get on after increasing the cyclogest first.
This not sleeping malarky is new to me, I always used to sleep like a baby.
How are you getting on Nas? x
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Hi discogirl, can you take valerian as a supplement with amitryptaline? I have a sleep one called valdrian which is good and doesn't react with citalopram but I don't know about your AD.
I am assuming you probably can't use 5-HTP with your AD, I know you can't with an SSRI but that would be another option if you could.
My final suggestion would be to see if your GP would prescribe melatonin, even a low dose of 1mg has helped me before. I don't know how old you are but they do give it short term for insomnia on the NHS for those over a certain age, I think 55.
Hi Penguin
I don't think I can take valerian with amitrypline and I did look at 5-HTP but no I can't take that either.
The melatonin sounds interesting, I'm 58yrs, so I may speak to my gp about that one.
Thanks so much for your reply xxx
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The mushroom supplement Reishi is worth a try, you can get it in tablet form of Ashawanga herbal supplement. I've also used CBT oil for sleep.
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Hi Love_vodka
Yes my daughter uses ashwaghanda, she's used it for a while.
It's all worth looking at, thanks so much for replying xx
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Hey disco
Yes it’s all trial and error unfortunately. You think you’ve nailed it and then, bang, it goes again ( but like our boiler right now!! :-\)
Something will work for you disco and you will soon be back on track. One thing I do find helpful, is a CBD gummy each night. I bought a pot from Healing Cauldron online. They are expensive I warn you (£25) for 30 plus postage. But they are relaxing I find. Worth a shot if you want to treat yourself :)
I’m struggling a bit with having this fibroid and pain. I’ve dropped my patch from 100 to 75 and the anxiety has ramped this week. Honestly it’s such a tricky time of life!
Keep us posted disco.
Oh, Bach rescue night remedy is good too! A couple of drops on the tongue. Xx
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Hey disco
Yes it’s all trial and error unfortunately. You think you’ve nailed it and then, bang, it goes again ( but like our boiler right now!! :-\)
Something will work for you disco and you will soon be back on track. One thing I do find helpful, is a CBD gummy each night. I bought a pot from Healing Cauldron online. They are expensive I warn you (£25) for 30 plus postage. But they are relaxing I find. Worth a shot if you want to treat yourself :)
I’m struggling a bit with having this fibroid and pain. I’ve dropped my patch from 100 to 75 and the anxiety has ramped this week. Honestly it’s such a tricky time of life!
Keep us posted disco.
Oh, Bach rescue night remedy is good too! A couple of drops on the tongue. Xx
Hi Nas,
I really thought I'd nailed it! It's the total randomness of it all.
I'm writing all these great suggestions down, as something will work.
I know you're on amitrypline as I am, can I take the bach rescue rememdy and the cbd gummies with amitrypline. And the healing cauldron gummies, do you just get cbd gummies?
Aw I'm sorry you're still struggling with the fibroid. I hate decreasing estrogen it kicks of my anxiety too. It will settled but thats not much help when you're struggling with anxiety.
Have you been for a scan or anything to do with your diverticular disorder? xx
I hope you get your boiler sorted xxx
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Jeeze, I was awake till 5.30am this morning. Every time I started to drop off, I got a hypnic jerk and startled and woke. I ended up just dozing lightly.
Even the nights I don't get these jerks, I just don't feel tired and lie awake for hours. This is very unlike me, I never had any probs with sleep before peri. It's been going on 18 months now and I'm exhausted.
I've tried so many things. It's associated with my heart beating fast and hard (even in my sleep) and buzzing and inner tremors. In 2 days I start T3 for my thyroid to see if getting my rt3 down helps with these symptoms. I'm on 3 pumps of gel and supposed to increase to 4 pumps in a couple of weeks if these symptoms continue. (One theory is that it's due to estrogen fluctuations rather than level.) My other theory is it's because we've been living in mold. But we're moving next week...
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Hi Joziel
I'm so sorry what you're going through sounds horrific.
If it is your thyroid I hope it gets sorted soon.
I hope you're moving goes smoothly as well.
Take care xxx
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Hey disco
Yes it’s all trial and error unfortunately. You think you’ve nailed it and then, bang, it goes again ( but like our boiler right now!! :-\)
Something will work for you disco and you will soon be back on track. One thing I do find helpful, is a CBD gummy each night. I bought a pot from Healing Cauldron online. They are expensive I warn you (£25) for 30 plus postage. But they are relaxing I find. Worth a shot if you want to treat yourself :)
I’m struggling a bit with having this fibroid and pain. I’ve dropped my patch from 100 to 75 and the anxiety has ramped this week. Honestly it’s such a tricky time of life!
Keep us posted disco.
Oh, Bach rescue night remedy is good too! A couple of drops on the tongue. Xx
HI Nas,
The cbd gummies are they the Full Spectrum 750mg? xxx
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Thanks, it's been a long slog and I'm just about reached the end of everything I can think of now... Including
Iron deficiency - had an iron infusion and got ferritin up to 192 at last test.
B12 - tested at 495 but ordered B12 shots from Germany to do EOD just to rule it out.
D3, folate - all optimal with 85ng D3 and ferritin in high teens.
Electrolytes, calcium etc - all ok. Calcium was a tiny bit low, so I took some for a while but that didn't help.
Thyroid - first thyroid panel completely normal but a repeat including rT3 showed rT3 was very high (32) and low free T3 (just inside bottom of range) which is why I'm about to trial some T3.
Cortisol 4 point test - completely optimal.
I've had to research all this myself because most of this stuff the health service is totally wrong about in terms of optimal levels. It's taken me ages. But I'm coming to the end of the road now. If T3, or increased estrogen or getting out of mold don't fix it somehow, I am going to be pretty desperate...
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Hi Joziel
wow ypu have done a lot of research.
Unfortunately i belueve womens health is usually at the bottom of the pile.
i truly hope something gets sorted for you.
Maybe moving and getting out of the mold will be the first step
take care xxx
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Hey disco
Yes that’s them… full
Spectrum green and yellow ( apple and lemon).
Xx
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Thanks Nas and thanks for replying to my message as well :) xxx
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First day of T3 today. Feet are already buzzing (as usual) at 10pm. But apparently it can take days or sometimes weeks to improve after starting thyroid meds. What does that remind you of....?!!?
Meanwhile I'm supposed to go up to 4 pumps of gel next week but now not sure I should without giving the T3 longer. Sheesh...
Moving in 3 days... This house we're in now definitely has mold, in multiple locations. It's all very confusing, frankly. I've had to redesign my life so I can sleep until 10.30am because some nights I don't get to sleep until 5am. It's bonkers. (I'm self employed so fortunately that's been possible.)
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Hi Joziel.
I really hope it all gets sorted for you.
Hopefully once you've moved that may help your sleep as well. Moving house is very stressful xxx
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Hi there, I’m sorry to hear that you're experiencing challenges with your sleep. Insomnia can indeed be complex, with various factors contributing to sleep difficulties. Here are a few additional suggestions and insights that might be helpful:
Stress and Anxiety:
Chronic anxiety can significantly affect sleep patterns. Identify potential stressors in your life and consider stress management techniques such as mindfulness, deep breathing exercises, or relaxation exercises.
Sleep Hygiene:
Ensure you maintain good sleep hygiene practices. This includes having a consistent sleep schedule, creating a relaxing bedtime routine, and optimizing your sleep environment.
Caffeine and Stimulants:
Evaluate your caffeine and stimulant intake, especially in the afternoon and evening. These substances can interfere with sleep. Consider limiting them, particularly in the hours leading up to bedtime.
Physical Activity:
Regular physical activity can positively impact sleep. Engage in moderate exercise, but avoid intense workouts close to bedtime.
Bedtime Routine:
Establish a calming bedtime routine to signal to your body that it's time to wind down. This could include activities such as reading a book, taking a warm bath, or practicing relaxation exercises.
If you continue to experience problems with falling asleep despite trying these techniques, it may be beneficial to seek guidance from a healthcare professional or sleep specialist who can provide personalised advice and support.
There’s an organisation called Overcome.org.uk who are offering free CBTi sleep therapy as part of a study, in fact they pay participants £10 for feedback. You can sign up at bit.ly/overcome-insomnia I hope you find these suggestions helpful, and that you're able to achieve more restful nights of sleep soon. Take care!