Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: meno-mel on August 07, 2023, 06:56:23 AM
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A nasty incident happened yesterday which I won't go into, but it got me wondering why are these people assuming I have cancer?
It didn't make sense so I try to make the nonsensical make sense and I'm driving myself nuts in the process.
So now front and centre of my brain are the thoughts, "people think I have cancer because of my symptoms" and I'm really really scared now and can't stop bursting into tears. Before yesterday's incident I had been very successfully in denial and doing fine.
I had precancerous cells of the most serious 3rd level abnormal on my cervix, but not cancer itself. I had a cauterisation and all was ok. I never believed it was precancerous cells anyway, that might be denial, not sure, but I don't believe them.
I'm up to date on my smear tests, those make me bleed btw, dunno why but luckily it doesn't contaminate the sample any more, they took so many back to back repeat smears when I was in my mid teens because every time I would contaminate the sample with my blood. That's right, it was my fault :-\
Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
So that's why I don't believe it was precancerous. I also think it could be I'm not post meno, this is the nurse's opinion, I started late, like my sisters, menopause at 55 would be more like my sisters than menopause at 51, we are five sisters btw, so a small sample, lol, but relevant all the same. I'm 53, nearly 54, my eldest sister hadn't even started stopping at this age.
Fast forward to age 51, my periods finally stopped after being highly unpredictable for about four years and my hot flushes began as soon as my periods stopped. I knew that was menopause, I then came here and found out the amazing info available here and since then I discovered I already had most of the menopause symptoms all through my 40s, I just hadn't known it could be menopause while I had periods, I thought I had dementia and all manner of other strange illnesses which were actually typical symptoms in menopause. :o
I told my GP a month after starting HRT that I had a period and didn't want periods again, she said it'll settle, don't worry.
We have switched my HRT due to mood side effects a few times and I take utrogestan 200mg 12 days a month now alongside Estradot50 patches, the utrogestan are taken vaginally as that stops me feeling depressed on it and lessens the gastro disturbance and insomnia I feel on it if taken orally.
But my "post menopausal bleeding" continued despite a few switches of different HRTs and has now been going on 15/16 months. For a lot of that time I've been on the waiting list for a scan and that scan is this week, on day 28 or 29 of my cycle depending on whether the first day of bleeding is day1, or day0 as I've seen American videos call it.
I've had my head firmly in the sand, refusing to come up for air, but now I've been jolted by a shock into thinking all the thoughts I've up until now denied exist.
Last night I searched here and eventually found a story like mine from years back, symptoms like mine, the woman felt fine and dismissed all the fuss like me, then further down the thread she is diagnosed with cancer and has a hysterectomy.
It's the ONLY story I could find that sounded like mine, after months of searching.
And it's been going on over a year now, I'm terrified.
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So sorry that you are going through such a hard time . Although I can’t give you any knowledge or advise with this matter I just wanted to acknowledge your post and hope you get things sorted soon I wish you well meno-Mel xxx
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I'm not on HRT so not up on the treatments but are you on a continuous post meno or peri meno treatment? You would bleed every month on the systemic one. I'm sure someone will be along who knows.
You had your smear tests very young, was there a reason for this.
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Hello meno-mel
I am so sorry that you are suffering.
It seems the nasty incident that you experienced has really distressed you but perhaps the scan appointment is also adding to your worry. I wonder if there is some comfort in knowing that the scan will give you the answers you so desperately need.
I wish I could help more but I am thinking of you and I wish you well for your appointment and beyond.
Take care and sending lots of hugs.
K.
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Aw, Mel, I am so sorry to hear all that you are going through. I am sending you a virtual hug and thinking of you. I hope you are able to discuss your concerns with your GP. I apologise if this is not an option but just wanted to reply to your post to let you know you are in my thoughts.
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Morning. I'm sorry that you feel so upset. What is the worst that could happen? Is it the waiting for the smear appt. bothering you the most or your worries about past procedures?
If you could explain the 'nasty incident' which happened yesterday , we can offer up advice and support.
It is awful not to know what is affecting us. The 'what ifs' take over. I found that once a diagnosis was made and a treatment plan put into place, any anxiety lessened.
Prior to the final bleed [menopause], as oestrogen levels drop we may notice changes that we were not expecting. Also, changes that some GPs R not aware about so pass off symptoms as 'other' issues.
Some HRT regimes will produce a bleed. Altering what we are prescribed too often may throw the body into free fall. It is suggested that HRT should be trialled for at least 3 months to allow the body to adjust, however, some symptoms are too intense for ladies to continue. So the GP alters the treatment.
........ and breath. I can't remember whether you have your scan appt.? U need to take someone with you to listen in case you miss anything said as well as a list of your worries.
Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
. Sounds within normal procedures to me. If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed. There is no reason for any medic to lie to a patient. Did U have a follow up smear about 3-4 months later?
R U alone today?
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I'm not on HRT so not up on the treatments but are you on a continuous post meno or peri meno treatment? You would bleed every month on the systemic one. I'm sure someone will be along who knows.
You had your smear tests very young, was there a reason for this.
I bleed every month on HRT whether it's continuous or sequi. The first year I trialled two conti regimens, bled on both, then since March I tried Evorel50+provera on sequi with horrific side effects, then Estradot50+utrogestan as now and neither had any effect on the timing of my bleeds, I still bled, not when they expect, same as I did on conti.
I was laughing saying my body is too young to be told I'm menopausal, of course I still have periods, I'm a young 53, my body ignores HRT expectations because I'm just too young and not there yet.
A lot of delusional pride there about my youthfullness, lol, not logical and I'm seeing that now after being kicked out of my comfort zone unexpectedly, I'm being frighteningly rational about the fact post meno bleeding can and does signal endometrial cancer, or other cancers, my aunt only knew she had cancer from a sudden vaginal bleed in her late 70s, by then there was a two inch tumour in her vagina, she survived because they said she was very young for someone in their 70s, so they did chemo where normally they don't as you approach 80.
Smear tests were compulsory then if you took the combined pill. I left home at 16 and my boyfriend moved in with me shortly afterwards, I needed the pill and it was withdrawan every time I refused the next smear test, maximum gap of every six months because at three months the doctor would grumble that I'd dodged it, at six months he'd put his foot down and refuse to prescribe the pill until he smear tested me personally and always painfully. I absolutely hated it but contraceptives were so tightly controlled in the 1980s I'd absolutely no choice. I believe it was basically a punishment for being unmarried and on the pill. Yes, really, there were still those awful mother and baby homes at the time and people would get arrested for smuggling/selling contraceptives. It was a different time for sure!
When a family planning clinic opened nearby I never went back to him for the pill and I never needed another smear test unless three years had elapsed after that!
Thank you all for the support, I don't know if I'm coming or going today, I can't stop this (maybe nervous?) sweating, I got up damp, soon became drenched, changed into a new nightie, soaked that, got dressed in tshirt, soaked through that, now in a tank top mopping under my arms with a tissue.
It's only 10.36am!
Oh it would make sense my headaches might be dehydration?
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I don't know which health authority you were under, unless in N Ireland - when I went on The Pill at 17, smears weren't a 'thing'. I didn't have my first when the NHS decided to offer them to women until I was 22. (1970s). Now nearly 70. I was regularly called and fortunately never had a problem.
Some GPs simply didn't like prescribing The Pill to unmarried women. The NHS had more control until in recent years, now patients are more likely to query treatments offered or change Practice. At that time my GP asked what I would do if he were RC and didnt' believe in contraception - my instant reply was "Your religious beliefs shouldn't interfere with your treatment of patients". Not that I'm feisty - much ;)
An appt. with a dedicated menopause clinic to discuss your symptoms pre-HRT as well as your regular bleeds - which may be your own hormones - would be my advice, not a Gynae as they often don't know much about HRT ::)
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Hi if you use a sequential regime of progesterone then you will get a bleed regardless of whether you are post or peri menopause , so I can’t see what your doctor is concerned about.
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Tnx Dotty .
What R U terrified about meno-mel ???
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Morning. I'm sorry that you feel so upset. What is the worst that could happen? Is it the waiting for the smear appt. bothering you the most or your worries about past procedures?
If you could explain the 'nasty incident' which happened yesterday , we can offer up advice and support.
It is awful not to know what is affecting us. The 'what ifs' take over. I found that once a diagnosis was made and a treatment plan put into place, any anxiety lessened.
Prior to the final bleed [menopause], as oestrogen levels drop we may notice changes that we were not expecting. Also, changes that some GPs R not aware about so pass off symptoms as 'other' issues.
Some HRT regimes will produce a bleed. Altering what we are prescribed too often may throw the body into free fall. It is suggested that HRT should be trialled for at least 3 months to allow the body to adjust, however, some symptoms are too intense for ladies to continue. So the GP alters the treatment.
........ and breath. I can't remember whether you have your scan appt.? U need to take someone with you to listen in case you miss anything said as well as a list of your worries.
Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
. Sounds within normal procedures to me. If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed.
I'll answer each bit in turn CLKD because I think you misunderstood me, I can't seem to be understood atm so not your fault.
I don't have a smear appointment, that was just my past "cancer" history
Yes, what ifs are the worst. My Granny was so pleased when she was diagnosed with cancer. She'd been fobbed off with paracetamol for a year, including after the cancer had spread to her bones, liver etc. She was pleased she was finally believed. Never one to make a fuss, she didn't exaggarate illness, she never had any illnesses, she was the healthiest person I knew growing up for sure. Once she was diagnosed, she was looking forward to seeing my grandad and died soon after, rather than dragging it out with chemo.
It was probably breast cancer but the doctors said there was no point investigating further when she wasn't accepting any treatment except morphine, so I'll never know how to answer the question about hormone cancers in the family!
I'm going to throw up, sorry, I'll do this later
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hi meno-mel
I just wanted to say im so sorry you're going through such a tough time.
just wanted you to know i'm thinking of you.
take care x
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So many kind voices, it really makes a difference, I'm almost in tears again, but this time because I'm glad of the support.
Thank you all.
I was replying to CLKD before my nausea got the better of me, that is persistantly one of the worst symptoms, along with being soaking wet all the time, it's not even as if HRT is some magic bullet the way my GP thinks it is, I've not felt much better on HRT yet.
Anyway I have cyclizine and it's effective, so I'll continue!
I agree my anxiety is worse and will be better if they tell me I'm ok or tell me what is wrong.
My initial scan appointment is on Friday.
All the bleeding was covered by being "within six months of starting a new HRT" except Feb & March this year, Feb's bleed was after seven months, my March bleed was after 8 months on that conti, 12 months on conti in total, bled every month I took it.
I know some regimens cause bleeding, the problem is all regimens cause bleeding for me, conti or sequi doesn't matter.
Give me hrt and I bleed, but I'm post menopausal so I shouldn't bleed, so what the hell is being fed by the hrt, if it's not some growth of some sort?
Yes, wild speculation I know, but I'm really scared.
They switched me to sequi because I had periods for a year on conti even despite being post menopausal, so they said sequi allowed for the bleed. The bleed doesn't happen when they say of course, why would it do that after a lifetime of being very subborn, lol.
Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
. Sounds within normal procedures to me. If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed. There is no reason for any medic to lie to a patient. Did U have a follow up smear about 3-4 months later?
I moved away after the procedure so didn't have any follow up smear whatsoever, lol. Just the normal routine ones every 3-5 years since.
You misread it, the smear test was taken two days before the op, they told me afterwards it had been completely normal but did the op anyway without informing me the latest test came back normal. I trust them to tell the truth, but my experience is that it's rarely the whole truth, they use the rest for manipulation, like contradictory test results might make her change her mind about the op, so let's not mention it. To be fair they probably didn't have the results yet either, but if they did I wasn't told.
What R U terrified about meno-mel ???
Um, well that would be the cancer thing.
If I have a touch of paranoia, that's because they often are out to get you, lol.
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You're correct, I mis-read what you typed ::). Sorry.
There is sometimes a little blood on a smear slide - if smears are difficult to obtain there are now several different ways of taking a sample. I believe that after 70 we have to request exams ::) ???
How many years after your last monthly bleed did U begin HRT and can you remember why? If the ovaries continue to pump out hormones it mayB that the regime has stimulated them enough to cause a regular bleed. A menopause specialist may have better advice about that 1.
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You're correct, I mis-read what you typed ::). Sorry.
There is sometimes a little blood on a smear slide - if smears are difficult to obtain there are now several different ways of taking a sample. I believe that after 70 we have to request exams ::) ???
How many years after your last monthly bleed did U begin HRT and can you remember why? If the ovaries continue to pump out hormones it mayB that the regime has stimulated them enough to cause a regular bleed. A menopause specialist may have better advice about that 1.
I've always bled at every smear test except for the one I had age 45. That was the first time it didn't bleed, I thought is it connected to age? I've bled on the two since then! I have a retro tilted uterus or whatever they call it, probably why they almost always manage to cut me.
Why HRT?
My night sweats were keeping me awake, now they don't wake me as much as they used to, I sleep on and my husband tells me how soaking wet I was all night, he asks how can I sleep like that?
It's not the improvement I was after ::) but an improvement nonetheless!
I was just over a year post meno starting HRT. My friend is a nurse and told me if I could wait until then there would be a lot more available for prescription, so as I was scared of progesterone depression, undecided and not in a hurry, I waited until then.
I have been switched every 3-8 months in the last 16 months, I've tried four oestrogens and five progesterones in that time, first year on conti, second year on sequi. I've now got utrogestan as number five and it might be ok vaginally, I've not decided if it's ok, but it is a million times better than the others!
There are some ways that I feel better that I don't want to lose. I've barely left the house since the pandemic because my anxiety was crippling me, I'm still on prozac and not a specific anti anxiety med, so I think HRT might be helping that, but I'm not sure.
I'll stop it for sure if it's been doing me harm, but how can I know that when I've not even had a face to face appointment with anyone in all this time? I had to go get my BP read and sent to the GP, so I met that nurse, lol, noone else.
My scan on Friday is definitely in person, with the menopause specialist nurse team. Appointments somewhat like hen's teeth, I'm hanging onto mine even though it is exactly four fridays after my last period started, or my last breakthrough bleed as my GP says, but they come about every four weeks.
That fact has been keeping me sane, cancer doesn't have a four week cycle.
Then of course as soon as it got right into my mind last night, way past all the denial and cowardice, I began to think of cancers of parts of the body that are connected to the cycle, could they have cyclical bleeding? Yes I think so.
If it wasn't this Friday, I've worked myself up into such a state I'd pay to go private now, but I didn't think the wait would be so long at the start.
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.. and breath.
Take a list of concerns with you.
The examaniation doesn't 'cut' the skin, it's a scraping action [look away now if you are eating]; to take cells from a wide area. This may include a little bleeding if the area is dry. Often an incomplete sample may arrive at the Lab., similar to a mammogram that needs repeating. We are lucky that we have access to these investigations even though the waiting lists have become longer over the years, with Covid not helping.
I was lucky that I didn't suffer with sweats. Often progesterone part of a regime is badly tolerated.
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Hello again meno-mel
Your comment about all your HRT regimes causing bleeding struck a chord with me.
I have had post meno bleeding a few times and one investigation showed a slightly thicker lining but a hysterectomy revealed nothing untoward so the conclusion was that a recent increase in patch had caused the problem. I reduced the patch and the bleeding stopped.
More recently I had a similar experience and yet again my womb lining was fine, no polyps or fibroids and a thin lining of 2mm. Again my HRT was the culprit so I lowered the Oestrogen and the bleeding stopped.
My point is there was nothing in my womb or my ovaries to cause the bleeding, the lining was thin and healthy so where the bleeding was coming from I have no idea and actually I didn't think to ask. All I know is that the HRT I was using was making this happen and when I changed that everything settled.
It is possible that you are in the same position and that there is nothing sinister going on at all it's just that your body is reacting this way to your HRT
I hope this brings you some comfort and that you can find some peace until your scan on Friday. I will be thinking of you.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Thank you both, I've calmed down a good bit now.
Getting older isn't for the faint hearted and while the NHS can't do what it was managing to achieve ten years ago by any stretch of the imagination, we still have what is left of it and so long as you don't mind other people around you dying on trolleys or while waiting hours for the ambulance then hey, no probs, you can wait a few days for admission!
At least these days the NHS are telling patients the whole story, they have no choice but to give all the details when the patient has no choice but to take it outside the NHS for treatment. So I will have that at least. In our region alone the guy on the BBC news said it's in excess of a hundred unnecessary deaths each week due only to the funding/staffing crisis and nothing else whatsoever. These are people who would live in the south, or in Scotland, if they'd thought to move. That was a scary estimate considering it was July at the time. I don't know whether it's considered vulgar for a female to talk about the relevant money matters or politics here, but I imagine mentioning what was on the BBC news is ok, I get my info from there and ITV, I don't do social media and I'd like to think it's obvious I'm not the tabloid type, so it would be shocking that there is something wrong with quoting the BBC on a UK website, but there is so much prejudice out there, we just didn't know about it until seven years ago because it used to be considered vulgar to be racist. Sad times all round.
I wish I'd done something before now about the bleeding, I've gone private often enough before, I wish I'd thought it might be serious at the time, but I didn't, but being mocked for waiting instead of paying privately, not by any nice ladies here, just two sniders, shocked me into the realisation they were right, I shouldn't have waited ten months for my (more than six months of) post menopausal bleeding to be first investigated, I should have paid to get a private scan because it's kind of scary that in some places the NHS will scan you as an emergency.
I hadn't known that, learnt it here, it's called 2WW and it is a frightening prospect that those women didn't have different symptoms from me, they just live in areas more favoured by the purse string holders.
That was the scariest thing I've read on this website and we aren't supposed to scare each other, but it can also be viewed another way, as women empowering themselves by seeking out and finding correct information. So even though the fact some women are treated as an emergency for my symptoms is indeed terrifying, I wouldn't want to have that information withheld from me for the purpose of not scaring me!
So now that it's 15 months since my post meno bleeding began, I can have my scan for free tomorrow and there was no cancellation of course. Who would wait a year then cancel? They'd never get off the basic waiting list onto the pending, never mind have an appointment to cancel because they'd go private months beforehand.
I told the nurse over three weeks ago the scan is booked on day 28 of my cycle and she was looking for some way to change the appointment to a more suitable time of the month, but the appointments department have been moved to a central location where they will never know when is the right time in the cycle for any individual, it's assumed that patients are ready to be scanned 24/7.
I don't feel in a position to make a fuss because it's not even my own NHS trust scanning me, the menopause clinic is in the neighbouring trust in a place I'm not familiar with. It's called a gynae clinic on the letter but they said it is the main HRT clinic.
It's noteable that only women are affected by the stupidity of the appointments system change. Men don't have cycles, so for men the best appointments are simply asap, easier to ignore that women are different.
These are my main worries, if I stick to the cause of the hold up, then I needn't think so much about the outcome of the hold up :-\
I'm sitting with sweat dripping off every part of me, a fan blowing on and off as I try to keep up with the way I'll freeze then overheat as it passes. I lay soaked in sweat last night again, since utrogestan started 14 days ago I've not had a single dry night because utrogestan seems to cancel any effect I feel off Estradot50. I'm still on the starting dose, it's still not working well and I'm not allowed to increase my oestrogen to a level that feels right for me until I've had my scan!!!!!
So why don't I stop HRT? My patch fell off before I put my new one on on Tuesday and I had felt really ill on Monday when I assume it wasn't there. That was what I was afraid of.
The Estradot50 isn't anything like enough to control my symptoms. It works way better for me than Evorel50, so I think it's the dose rather than not getting on with the brand. Utrogestan wipes out all the good effects of both Estradot and vagifem, I start wetting myself as soon as I get to use utrogestan vaginally, I've been told 200mg vaginally for 12 days a month, if I take it orally I simply become someone else who might kill herself with very little pushing.
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And the postman just passed, leaving my cancelled appointment letter with me.
"Due to unforseen circumstances we have had to revise your appointment."
They plan to see me in five weeks instead, 15th September and given my cycle is usually a bit longer than four weeks we'll be in the same situation regarding being just before my period.
Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffflaming funding crisis.
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Firstly - what is 2WW?
2ndly - ring your surgery and tell them about the postponement - ask if there is another Hospital that will offer the scan
3rdly - if you are able to take a cancellation appt at very short notice, ring the Dept and tell them
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2WW is the pathway that the NHS GP refers you via if you have symptoms that could be cancer. This is supposed to guarantee you have an initial appointment, I.e. scan etc, within two weeks. There are then other targets which kick in after the first appointment.
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Meno-mel, in one of your earlier posts you said that if the scan hadn't been on Friday, you'd have booked a private scan by now. Please, put yourself out of this misery and do that. It sounds like your stress and anxiety levels are through the roof now. If you can't, as CLKD suggests, get your GP to help, or get a cancellation at a time that coincides when your lining is likely to be thinner, then this really might be a good option for your mental health given how worried you are about this.
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Yes, Penguin, I've been searching and there are two local doctors that do private consultations, the one whose named speciality is postmenopausal bleeding is £200 plus £336 for an ultrasound.
I've got the savings to do it and the fact is I only have until January to pull myself together and get back to work.
I had tried to quit as it was so embarrassing being off every fourth week for HRT side effects.
Bless them they want me back and extended my contract that I was letting lapse last month, for another six months unpaid leave, so I've got until January to get better now and I would quite like to go back then I think.
I hate to spend that kind of money when I've nothing but PIP as my income, but I will.
Besides my husband always wants to pay for everything anyway and I've no doubt when he wakes up and I tell him it's cancelled he'll want to pay for this too.
I've not discussed it a lot with my husband, his mum got breast cancer at exactly my age and died, I know it would internally rip him up if he was aware of a cancer risk being involved in this.
He had a coronary bypass, done privately of course or he might not still be here. Who would wait on the NHS list when they told him they'd never seen such blocked arteries still working away? He was on the 100th centile for the level of blockage, only that he's an ex-athlete saved him they said, his other risks were lower I guess. The consultant told him he couldn't afford to wait.
All done to sidestep the heart disease that killed his dad young, after it was all done the consultant was happy with the outcome, he gave the definite impression people on the waiting lists are dying when they weren't even as bad as my husband was and that was back in 2019 when doctors weren't often saying people were dying from the cuts.
It's all you hear now from NHS doctors unfortunately.
It cost £14,000 for the op, done in 2019 in an NHS hospital with all the NHS aftercare, but none of the waiting months then years for a heart attack until the NHS can save up to do it "free of charge" out of all the thousands we were paying in taxes every year at the time.
I think we can find it again if we need to. I was surprised the clinic doesn't take insurance, but that's good for me because we don't have any, best quote was £2k a year for both of us, too much now my husband has taken early retirement, so by now that theoretical pot of money that would have paid for insurance that wouldn't even have covered menopause has £6k in it.
I wonder if they take theoretical currency? ;)
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Meno Mel, I know it really doesn’t help but wanted to send love and strength to you.
You will get through this.
Book a private appointment if you can for the sake of your mental health.
Different circumstances but we booked a private MRI for my daughter a few years ago, worth every penny as my mind kept taking me to the worst case scenarios.
Sending best wishes xxxx
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Meno mel - My story is that (in brief) I am still having periods at age 59. Complete with all the associated PMT syndrome beforehand.
My doctors did not believe I could possibly be having periods at 59, despite them being regular predictable blah blah blah. (I've posted loads about it on this forum...)
Anyway
I was sent for a scan as I 'must have womb cancer.' YES she said that. Out loud. :(
I had one about 6 weeks later. First of all if they actually DO suspect cancer you are sent on a fast track and need to be been within 2 weeks. At the appointment i asked the sonographer if I'd been fast tracked and she said no. I'm not sure where you are in the UK but surely wherever you are, if you are at real risk of cancer you'd be seen before now? :( I know there's waiting lists but? I'm in Scotland. When they thought my anaemia was due to internal bleeding I was fast tracked for colonoscopy and endoscopy and my appointment came just 2 days later. No joke!
Anyway, back to my scan for 'bleeding'. They will never refer to it as possible menstrual periods, late onset menopause etc etc. Just irregular bleeding :(
Everything was fine.
no signs of anything at all untoward.
perfect lining thinness
And she told me she could tell by looking at the size shape and condition of a womb if it was post menopausal or not. She told me mine was that of a still menstruating woman.
All fine!
Please do try not to worry - stupid empty words, I know. But worrying myself sick beforehand, like you are, did me no good at all :( :( Worry when there is something to worry about. My periods have never stopped - but they have been through varying years of being pretty scanty to very scanty at times, to heavy and all manner in between. Maybe your stopped 'time' was just very scanty indeed. The human body follows no rule book :)
I do think from what you've posted that you are not being fast tracked? If when you have the scan your cycle is not in an ideal place, I'm sure they can allow for that anyway.
If you can possibly, because you're so stressed, get a private appoint. I really do know how you feel Mel, I too have anxiety. Major health anxiety, and I spiral into bad scenario thoughts at the drop of a hat. It's wearing. Wears you down completely. So I'm sending you huge hugs, lots of good luck and more importantly right now - calming vibes xxxx
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meno-mel, why don't you try and book a private transvaginal scan? That is what I would do because there is no guarantee they won't cancel your next scan.
I don't use the NHS but agree that it is starved of cash, resources and staff. Basically, it doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with complex menopause issues and an honest conversation needs to be had about that. Their HRT prescribing guidelines are very rigid and they deliberately overdose women with progesterone because they don't routinely offer uterine scans.
I found 50mcg patches very ineffectual and my symptoms only began to disappear when I started using Oestrogel so I would definitely try gel.
Bleeding on HRT is very common be it a continuous combined regime or cyclical. Progesterone acts as a moderator and forces the womb lining to shed (often sporadically) when it starts to build up so it is doing its job but book a scan for peace of mind.
I think it's appalling that you have been subjected to all this unnecessary worry.
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Thank you Clovie for sharing your story.
If there were more of us then the doctors might have a clue, but they are still in the infancy of learning what menopause is.
Yesterday I read about a study that demonstrated it's not just declining hormones that are causing all the havoc during menopause, there are other systems involved to cause this or that in the study but they didn't pinpoint what, the brain was heavily involved but I'll not pretend I understood it properly.
It's all such a huge unknown and maybe like Rhesus disease which was so devastating right up until our grandparent's generation just because they hadn't found the cause, now it's treated preventatively whether you want to be treated or not!
My hope is that someday they can test, like for Rhesus factor, to see what type of menopause the woman is likely to be having and give the right treatment without so much trial and error.
I have some family moved to Scotland just before the indi-ref happened and I've heard how well sorted things are there by comparison!
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Hi meno- mel so sorry you’re having a rough time
In my early 60s I was on sequential HRT and bleeding every morning. GP suggested continuous, but I had breakthrough bleeding on and off. Ultrasound showed thickening of womb and hysterescope confirmed but nothing else. Continued bleeding for more months. Next scope they found a fairly large polyps which the consultant said they should have seen last time. Once it was removed the bleeding stopped.
I hope my story might help you, not worry as much
Flutterby x
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Thank you alibeau for your kind wishes and flutterby for your experience too.
Thanks MaryG as well, I'll ask again whether I might be allowed the gel, my GP said no when I asked for it before, so I'll ask at the private appointment, I am counting on it being more useful!
I suppose if they thought it was cancer they would refer me quicker, but why would they think that when I have been unable to even speak to a GP most of the time? It took the HRT clinic two weeks to return my calls when I had a query about taking utrogestan vaginally, I've had no face to face appointment for menopause, noone has so much as looked at me across the room, never mind get close enough to know whether I might have cancer or not.
I now have an appointment for the 4th September, couldn't get earlier but I can phone daily for a cancellation if I like, the receptionist was lovely, they don't do a cancellation list, but I can phone as often as I like to check for any individual cancellations.
So that will be £567.50 in total if she does the ultrasound, six weeks PIP will pay for it, I suppose that is what it's for after all. They take your card details up front, then charge you on the day and I'll have another payment in my bank by then anyway.
So after all this time I'm going to end up paying anyway, but I don't see I have much choice any more. Enough is enough, the nice guidelines are not being followed, I'm glad my head is out of the sand now. Those people who upset me did me a favour I guess because they made me angry enough to actually do something about it.
Just on the lighter side I had a laugh when I asked whether my GP's practice has a menopause specialist. The receptionist didn't realise, but she named MY GP (the one who says northisterone can't possibly cause side effects and also said she isn't allowed to prescribe the oestrogen gel as a GP, that needs a specialist). ;D ;D ;D
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Please don’t let me worry you but every bleeding post menopausal should be checked by 2 week pathway where you get a scan and a biopsy. I only know as I’ve had a full hysterectomy 19 weeks ago because of cancerous cells in my womb. I’d had a clear biopsy and slight thickening of womb 15months before. This time I had bleeding again lost a lot of weight sent for 2 week pathaway lining ok but thank god the nurse said will I do another biopsy. Within 2 weeks I was seeing the cancer surgeon and 2 weeks later everything removed and it hadn’t spread. Most Drs and hospitals take post menopausal bleeding seriously. Good luck
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Ultrasound direct do a post meno pelvic scan for £195 they have 75 locations over the country if that might be cheaper ? Looking local to me I could get one done on august 16th.
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Minusminnie, that's more like the price I was thinking of too. I paid similar last year for reassurance and got the scan report at the time, plus it was emailed to my GP.
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You guys are amazing, I just can't thank you all enough for helping me this way.
Long story short my period came last night, at the end of day 28, that is keeping me sane, the fact it's just like periods and regular.
So I saw the above messages, googled the name and I'm booked in with the Ultrasound direct place for tuesday lunchtime, my period ought to have just finished by then so my understanding is that is the right time to scan.
It's £195 for scan and more tests than the other place did for £336!
I'll keep my other appointment, it's £200 to see the specialist on post meno bleeds next month and I'll keep that, the scan was an extra add on I don't have to take and the rest is booking fee, non returnable.
So you wonderful people have just saved me a month of waiting and £141. I'll buy you all a drink next time you are nearby ;)
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and I was wrong about the timing of the new NHS scan appointment being bad, it's five weeks today unless they cancel again, so if my periods stay regular it'll be a good time after all!
I'm feeling much happier and so will my husband, I blurted out I was worried about cancer then reassured him it would only mean a hysterectomy not death if I had it, I've no idea about that of course, I didn't mean to worry him, but he has been quietly gentle around me ever since and he did a lot of being helpful yesterday, it was a really sobering thought for him I could see and he said not to be worrying about him, we're a team he said, he needs to know it all too. He'll come with me on Tuesday and hopefully all will be fine.
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Hello again meno-mel.
I just wanted to say that I am so pleased that you have booked a scan. I am sure that you will get the reassurance that you are looking for.
Take care and please keep us updated. Mine's a pint by the way lol.
K
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What a day!
Kathleen you can have that update sooner than expected!
This morning I was doing some deadheading in the garden when the phone rang, it was the HRT clinic wanting to know where I was. I read them out my cancellation letter, three phonecalls of them to me later and they suggested if I could still make it there before 12, bearing in mind it is nearly an hour away even with the motorway, then they could fit me in.
I shouldn't have been sent a cancellatioon letter at all, the clinic were waiting for me, I photocopied the letter and gave them it because they were somewhat incredulous, they didn't understand what had happened etc, but with a bit of a mad dash we made it in time and they gave me the time of a full appointment, perhaps being shown the letter did that, they were sorry about it all.
I'm very happy to say there is sod all wrong with me, I will live a long and happy life, lol.
I am absolutely post menopausal, I am not perimenopausal. I have a nice thin lining with no irregularities, little ovaries hanging around looking ok in there too, it's all been scrutinised and I'm fine.
She said to me my periods must be very light, I said no they are very heavy, she doesn't think this one will be, which is confusing and I'm keen to see if I will bleed loads or not now. I've never really understood anyway about how it's the lining when it's liquid, doesn't make sense to me.
I still can't have tibolone, but I can have oestrogel and I can have more than the medium dose, at last, although I noticed on the letter she didn't say that clearly so I hope it's ok with my GP now.
I can stay on 12 days vaginal utrogestan, I didn't ask if I'm allowed conti again now that I'm back to being postmenopausal, I had none of my notes or calendar with me, I was in such a rush I'd not even my phone.
So I didn't ask many questions, but in reply to my main one, the doctor told me it's not at all uncommon to have bleeding like mine, they have women through the doors every day who bleed when they aren't expected to, on conti as well. She was a bit surprised I'd not been scanned before today, but isn't everyone?
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I am so happy for you Mel! Thank goodness everything is okay. I hope you can relax now although it may take time for your body to get over so much stress and worry. Big hugs for you.
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meno-mel, that is great news!
I didn't think it was anything serious because bleeding is very common for women using HRT. If anything, it confirms your womb is very efficient and shredding any slight lining build up.
If someone is post menopause, not using HRT and suddenly starts bleeding for no reason, that is a cause for concern but unscheduled bleeding can happen to women on continuous combined HRT because (a) they need to increase their dose of progesterone or (b) they have increased their dose of oestrogen and are no longer taking the right dose of progesterone to keep the womb lining thin..
I hope you are reassured now.
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Thank you, yes, relaxed and very happy, I hadn't realised how much it has played on my mind all these months.
MaryG, I love that thought, my womb is efficiently keeping itself right, I'll keep that in mind!
My period so far has been a dribble, it can be slow to start, but it might be that the previous doses of provera 10mg which did everything bad and nothing it was meant to do, then 5mg provera, utrogestan 200mg orally and utrogestan 100mg vaginally simply weren't enough in the months I tried those.
I'd tried those in turn and bled lots even before the progesterone days were finished, this month it's later or littler, one or the other or both I guess.
This month I had 200mg utrogestan vaginally, which is tolerable for me although I'm glad when the 12 days are over.
It was the first time I've had such a high dose, assuming it's right that vaginally it's more strongly absorbed.
If so, the timing of finding what keeps my lining thin was perfect for the scan because a thin lining just as my period starts is pretty fantastic as a result!
So everything worked out perfect in the end, phew!
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SOOOO pleased for you Mel! :)
What a relief!!
I know how you're feeling exactly. I was the same as you - sent for a scan as there MUST be something wrong, doctor actually said CANCER
but no.
My womb was in perfect shape.
No drama
No issues
Now you can relax and thank your body for doing it's own thing correctly.
Relax and enjoy!! xxxx