Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Katherine on July 24, 2023, 12:04:38 PM

Title: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 24, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
Hi ladies,

I've not been on here a while, I increased my oestrogen from 2 to 3 pumps for part of the month where I get v tired (a week before and during my period) and it really eased the pre-period exhaustion. However just after the end of my period I've been feeling  a bit unwell, with that weird sedated but anxious feeling. Anyway I persevered with it but then recently I had one of my breathing episodes in the night but this time felt like I couldn't get my breath back. I had to call an ambulance for the first time in my life. I hadn't taken any HRT for a few days prior to this happening. I have had laryngospasm my whole life but it's got worse. I don't know what's causing this worsening, it could be any number of things but I haven't had HRT for a week as I want to see if it goes away when I'm not on it. My question is, is it ok to abruptly stop HRT? I haven't had any withdrawal symptoms yet except much lower energy. It says on the NHS website both oestrogen and progesterone can cause anaphylaxis and I'm wondering if I am sensitive to them. Am I supposed to taper off HRT? I just took an antihistamine 2 nights in a row (cetirizine) and my throat relaxed and I had the best 2 nights sleep of my life but apparently you can't rely on it for insomnia as you become tolerant. Any insights would be gratefully received. Sorry if its a bit confusing.

Katherine
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: CLKD on July 24, 2023, 12:24:20 PM
Tapering for most drugs is recommended.

Yours symptoms may be anxiety related.  The more one tries to take a breath, get to sleep, wake up in the morning the more the brain goes into survival mode  ::) .  Perhaps some yoga, pilates or deep breathing exercises would help.

Gentle exercise around the house: walk a few steps, take a breath, walk a few steps then pant.  The body can't stop breathing when 1 is panting ;-).  I used to take anti-histamines to aid sleep although most now are 'non drowsy'  ::)
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 24, 2023, 12:34:47 PM
Hi CLKD,

Thank you for your reply. I have laryngospasm which is physical and involuntary and also asthma. I used to get panic attacks but they are totally different. I do agree with you though that trying to sleep, etc can have the opposite effect. Apparently Cetirizine is non drowsy but I've never found anything more effective for sleep! Not sure how tapering would work with oestrogen and utrogestan as they say to take utrogestan a minimum of 25 days a month. x
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: CLKD on July 24, 2023, 12:37:10 PM
Now that's technical and I don't understand technical  ::)

How do U feel this morning?
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 24, 2023, 01:19:18 PM
I feel better in terms of having more sleep and feeling like my breathing is more relaxed but worse in terms of lower energy and I am also getting more irritable and tearful more easily. It seems I can't have it both ways. The breathing thing is my priority though. x
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: CLKD on July 24, 2023, 01:40:17 PM
Lack of sleep and low energy may cause irritability  ::)
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 24, 2023, 05:58:07 PM
The cetirizine has given me 2 good nights sleep but I still feel depleted but not surprising given I'm going cold turkey I guess.
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: SarahT on July 24, 2023, 06:51:35 PM
Hello Katherine,

Am so sorry you have had such a scary time. It may be a simplistic way of thinking, but when I increase my patch I try to Do so in increments so my body has time to adjust to changes. If it were me, and I wanted to decrease my dose strength I think I would do the same  backwards and decrease slowly?
To be honest I would just be terrified of stopping hrt at this Rocky time for me.
Am.sure I heard a neighbour say they took anti histamine at night as the welcome side effect was it also helped them sleep too. I suppose we all react differently to medications.

I am sorry I can't help, I wish you well Katherine,  take care
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Gnatty on July 25, 2023, 06:58:00 AM
I would just add that people take anti histamines sometimes all year round. Why don't you cut yourself a bit of slack and take the cetirizine for the time being to build up your strength and enjoy getting some sleep?
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: CLKD on July 25, 2023, 09:01:55 AM
Agreed.  Sometimes we over think X, Y, Z .  How do U feel this morning?
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 25, 2023, 05:03:39 PM
Hello Katherine,

Am so sorry you have had such a scary time. It may be a simplistic way of thinking, but when I increase my patch I try to Do so in increments so my body has time to adjust to changes. If it were me, and I wanted to decrease my dose strength I think I would do the same  backwards and decrease slowly?
To be honest I would just be terrified of stopping hrt at this Rocky time for me.
Am.sure I heard a neighbour say they took anti histamine at night as the welcome side effect was it also helped them sleep too. I suppose we all react differently to medications.

I am sorry I can't help, I wish you well Katherine,  take care

Thanks Sarah, I was going to restart HRT last night and reduce gradually but within half an hour of taking Utrogestan I could really feel the difference of how I felt the past week without it and how it made me feel after taking it and I'm now sure that Utrogestan is not for me, I just can't take one more.

I am currently looking into the Mirena, so I guess I can't take any oestrogen until I sort out my progesterone anyway. There's so much conflicting info online about Mirena that it's hard to know what to do. You have helped Sarah, every viewpoint I get helps, two heads are better than one, they say. Thanks again xxx
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 25, 2023, 05:06:12 PM
I would just add that people take anti histamines sometimes all year round. Why don't you cut yourself a bit of slack and take the cetirizine for the time being to build up your strength and enjoy getting some sleep?

Hi Gnatty,

Thank you for replying. I will take cetirizine when I need it, for now. I guess I'm afraid of becoming dependant on it but it can't hurt for a  while just til I get my HRT sorted out.x
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 25, 2023, 05:13:15 PM
Agreed.  Sometimes we over think X, Y, Z .  How do U feel this morning?

Ha ha! I do overthink things, I don't like making mistakes! I felt less nervous this morning - Utrogestan does help in that sense but I've decided I no longer want to take Utrogestan (see my answer to Sarah above) and am looking into the Mirena. I'm relieved that I didn't have any breathing difficulties last night. It's confusing because GPs don't talk about side effects and natural health practitioners are against HRT so it's hard to get a balanced view.  I guess I could get a Mirena but I read up on the possible complications (perforation of the womb lining, infection, sepsis, cysts, ectopic pregnancy) and it scared me. So I'm just in limbo really.

I'm really grateful for you ladies support.xxx
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: discogirl on July 25, 2023, 05:36:13 PM
hi Katherine

I just wanted to wish you well xxx
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 25, 2023, 05:49:12 PM
hi Katherine

I just wanted to wish you well xxx

Thanks discogirl, I hope you're doing ok honey xxx
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: SarahT on July 25, 2023, 06:40:34 PM
Hello Katherine,

I have to say I really did not get on with utrogestan. After an awful time with that I opted for the Mirena coil. As you say, there are so many different stories regarding this ( but also those who love their utrogestan!)  I feel stud Mirena was the right choice for me. Also plus point  is after it settled down, spotting and lightbleeds, it stopped my periods. At the age of 56 I was massively relieve by this. A big psychological bonus for me. I have to accept that with all medications there may be side effects and for me sometimes the positive effects outweigh the not so good. But am lucky I dont suffer HA like some do.

Maybe talk to a nurse At your surgery about the possibility? Or of other progesterone options? X
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 25, 2023, 10:57:20 PM
Hi Sarah

I’m really glad Mirena works for you.
It must be a relief. I think I would rather just have menopausal symptoms than take utrogestan. I think my worst fear with a Mirena is heavy bleeding because my iron levels have been low for years and I don’t have the spare capacity to lose any more without becoming anaemic. I wonder if one can have a Mirena removed in A&E in such circumstances. I need to speak with my gp or a nurse as you say. X
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 26, 2023, 11:14:32 AM
Hello Katherine,

I have to say I really did not get on with utrogestan. After an awful time with that I opted for the Mirena coil. As you say, there are so many different stories regarding this ( but also those who love their utrogestan!)  I feel stud Mirena was the right choice for me. Also plus point  is after it settled down, spotting and lightbleeds, it stopped my periods. At the age of 56 I was massively relieve by this. A big psychological bonus for me. I have to accept that with all medications there may be side effects and for me sometimes the positive effects outweigh the not so good. But am lucky I dont suffer HA like some do.

Maybe talk to a nurse At your surgery about the possibility? Or of other progesterone options? X

SarahT, can I ask if you felt any different mentally or emotionally after getting a Mirena?
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: SarahT on July 26, 2023, 01:26:48 PM
Hi Katherine,

I definitely felt relief at not having periods anymore, that was a big thing for me. It is also easier in that they are no times to remember to take utrogestan. So that did help mentally.
I  do seem to have a more severe form of pms, particularly mood swings,but this was getting worse prior to the mirena, I understand peri can make this worse so I genuinely do not feel they are connected.
In fact, during the rest of the month I do feel a .lot more stable if that makes sense. I have upped the hrt to 125 and have just started ADs in the days running up to my period,bit Jekyll and Hyde in those days.... I checked with my gp that the mirena has enough progesterone to balance the higher patch and she affirmed this.
Personally I do feel the mirena has not affected me emotionally or mentally in a negative way.

 Also my iron levels have always been low..I am on two prescribed iron tablets a day and my last blood showed a pathetic 64! Apparently only under 50 is a concern. I think the ranges are something like 12-265. Seems a bit mad to me.  So not bleeding each month psychologically benefits me in this way too.
I hope a nurse can help you with whatever choice you decide is better for you Katherine.
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 26, 2023, 05:22:47 PM
Thanks so much Sarah for telling me all that, it is very helpful. My GP did tell me when I first started HRT that in here opinion the oestrogel and Mirena combination would be best for me but there was a long wait list for a Mirena so that's why I took utrogestan. However I felt the utrogestan made me sleep more deeply so I cancelled the Mirena. Now though I think if I continue on HRT I need to give the Mirena a try, I'm scared of the procedure (I've always dreaded smears) but it would be worth it if the progesterone suits me. Like you I have to take iron every day to stop myself becoming anaemic so not having to take iron would be a big bonus too. Thanks again Sarah and I'll post on here when I've sorted the progesterone.
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: SarahT on July 26, 2023, 06:29:32 PM
Katherine In fact my last smear was just plain awful,  so much so I went back to my gp because it had hurt so much. One hospital appt later to investigate and VA was diagnosed. And it took me 3 years to realise VS and all the following symptoms were actually me in perimenopause!! . Think I learned everything I know from this forum. :o
But using Ovestin each night and YES has really helped for that, so not dreading next smear so much. The hospital endorsement were able tonite lubricant to make me comfortable.

And I had heard many horror stories about coil fitting. I hit the jackpot with my two nurses. They were so kind, explained everything, let me see a ' dummy ' coil before and showed me each step of the way, let me ask any question,  and took  their time. It wasn't pleasant of course, tolerable is best description. I had taken painkillers beforehand,  and rested for a couple of hours after with some cramping pain. Felt strangely tired. Next day I was fine. I had spotting and light bleeds on and off for about 3 months, and a couple of times when I upped my hrt I had light spotting.  But the relief at last of no periods.
I know some really do not get on  with the mirena but I do feel it is the right method for me. As we all know there can be a huge amount of trial and error with hrt.

Do feel free to message me with any questions or you like. I am totally honest and upfront with anything that may help someone on here

Take care x
Title: Re: Stopping HRT abruptly
Post by: Katherine on July 26, 2023, 06:40:41 PM
Thank you so much Sarah, all of the info and your support is really helpful, you're so kind. x