Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Sue1972 on July 15, 2023, 09:01:01 AM
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I have just started a new bottle of Oestrogel and it is a different shape to the last ones I have had. It is more cylindrical. I have only been using this new bottle for 3 days but all my symptoms seem to be returning. Has anyone else experienced this?
I am currently on 3 pumps, 2 in the morning and 1 at night. I am now wondering if this bottle is maybe weaker than the others and if I should try having an extra half or full pump.
I have read that Bessins have said there has been no changes to the ingredients but I am wondering if it is weaker due to the shortages?
Any advice would be appreciated. x
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My last 3 bottles have been the cylindrical ones with the white top but have had no worsening symptoms.
How long have you been on Oestrogel? I do notice when weather is very hot that I can get increase in symptoms and wonder if absorbtion is different then.
I also had to go from 3 to 4 pumps at end of last year.
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That is reassuring.
I have been on Oestrogel/Utrogestan for 6 months now after switching from patches. I have been feeling so much better and have had very few symptoms but since starting this new tube I have literally had them all back. It may just be a coincidence.
I have not really noticed any difference with the weather but I think I will try having 2 pumps at night and 2 in the morning.
I felt particularly awful this morning but have felt a bit better since applying the gel. Maybe just the 1 at night is not enough anymore.
Thanks for the reply 👍
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There are 2 Types of Oestrogel: made for UK and made for France, the second one originally is called OEstrodose, but in UK they stick name Oestrogel on top of it. They are supposed to be the same, but there are a lot of discussion that they are actually not.
I personally have tried both and they both the same for me.
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I definitely had all symptoms return from Oestrodose. I needed to be on estrogel. It’s great people responding here, who have said it didn’t make a difference for them, haven't also said it must be all in your head! There is allegedly no difference but there are so many people including me that have had issues. And there’s so much gaslighting around about it!
Basically if you can tell a difference then there is one for you and you may need to always attempt to stick to the same gel. X
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Hi Sue1972 - worry not. Oestrogel is oestrogel even if it is sometimes given a different name for different markets - this is the same for some other HRT products. Why they are given different names in different countries is beyond me, but only serves to worry women unnecessarily! They cannot be different in the sense that they are made to the same formulation by the same company and crucially also the same concentration of estradiol - they have to.
It absolutely CANNOT be made weaker due to the shortages - the amount of estradiol per g of gel will be the same in all bottles of oestrogel made by Besins and they would not change the dosage without declaring it. Do be assured of that.
I would suggest that gel is more likely to give rise to differences in absorption - if there are any and as Tinkerbell says - weather changes will definitley make a difference. Absorption is very much affected by temperature of the skin, and to some extent the temperature of the bottle - warmer weather may make it slightly runnier. Possibly also a bottle that has been opened sometimes may end up runnier towards the end - I certainly found that with testogel (same formulation except for active ingredient). What else you put on your skin (eg shower creams, body creams etc) also will affect absorption too as well as where you apply it.
There has been a lot of discussion around bottle shapes, names, coloured squares, you name it - differences in any of these things have been said to cuase differences in absorption. Some say more some say less - but the same product can't be both weaker and stronger at the same time!
So far there is no evidence, beyond anecdotal, that it has anything to do with the gel per se, but most likely something else. If there was proper evidence - then I will revise that view but until then - let's go with the most likely explanation and above all NOT TO WORRY!
Why I'm saying all this is that the most important thing for you, is that you are taking HRT, it's a very effective HRT, and I urge you to continue with it and focus on the fact that it is going to work and make you feel better. If you feel your symptoms have (consistently) returned for whatever reason - say over a period of several weeks, then perhaps you need an extra half pump as you suggest - so why not give this a try and mention to your doc.
Yes as you say - it is most likely to be just coincidence - only placebo controlled trials would show anything - if there was something to show.
All the best and hope your symptoms resolve soon :)
Hurdity x
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I personally think unless you’ve experienced this people have no idea the profound effect the different product has. Some of us are more sensitive to changes in hormones.
It’s great if you don’t get any effect from the change but I believe if someone has experienced a change then that’s valid.
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I was the same as you. I was on Oestrogel for over 20 years before the shortages with no issues at all but now after the shortages I had to swop to patches as I did not absorb the Oestrogel at all and my blood level was only 50pmol which basically meant I might as well not be on HRT at all. Personally something with Oestrogel for me changed and it ceased to work for me. I tried every bottle, green amber etc and the different shaped ones but none of them worked for me. All very strange but everyone is different and what works for some people doesn't for others HRT is a very personal thing for everyone. Maybe my system had just got too used to it over the years.
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Hi All,
Many thanks for your replies.
It is exactly the same estrogen that I was on, just different packaging. I too have used ones with green squares and orange squares and found no difference but after starting this new shaped tube my symptoms have started returning.
I have not been doing anything different or using any new creams, lotions etc and the weather has not changed at all.
I am really hoping it is just a coincidence as this HRT has been working so well for me. I will give it a few more days and then try the extra pump if necessary.
Thanks again.
x
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After my issues my consultant specified the exact product I needed (estrogel and not anything that was or repackaged from Oestrodose, and then it was better. They can specify on the prescription if needed.
Hope things work out for you! Xx
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We have had this debate about different types of gel many times.
I would say that without doubt, there must be a difference between the gels otherwise women would not be on here discussing it. We have had some women who have had distressing side effects and/or returning symptoms that have gone away once they return to their original gel.
So don't worry, it's not just you, the problem is very real.
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Many thanks Mary G.
I have logged it with Yellow Card just in case there is something to look at.
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Hello ladies.
When I was using Oestrogen pumps I became worried that I would be given a different product and the merest suggestion that my symptoms might return sent me into a panic.
For this reason I wanted to be prescribed the same bottle every time. I was using a paper prescription form at the pharmacy so every time I needed to reorder I wrote something like ' Oestrogel only, not Oestrodose ' or 'Not substitute product' or something along those lines and I was always given what I wanted.
One day I was collecting my order but before I could leave the shop the pharmacist called me back and apologised for giving me the wrong bottle, she told her assistant that the prescription had specified which one was to be dispensed.
I wondered if the staff thought that the GP or surgery had added that note and that's why they were so concerned to get it right. I didn't bother telling them that it was just my scribbles on the form lol.
Perhaps ladies, if you can add a similar instruction to your prescription you may get the results you want and never have to explain yourself or justify your actions.
Take care everyone.
K.
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Update - I have contacted the doctor who has agreed to write a new prescription for me stating I need Oestrogel and not Oestrodose.
Fingers crossed this does the trick 🤞
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Fingers crossed for you. Do keep us updated xxx
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Hi Sue1972 how are you getting on? Did u try pumps? I’m in the exactly the same position I started a cylinder pack 3 days ago and I am noticing my symptoms coming back! I am certain the same as Pippa52 that since the shortages kicked in a year or so ago it’s not been the same!!! I went from a blood level of 400 down to 60 and I didn’t change my HRT at all! Same dose and been on it for years. I swear the formula must have changed it seemed to happen almost immediately after the bottles changed during the shortages. I thought I was going mad then I saw others had the same.
Hope you are doing ok 😀
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Madge79 - I was exactly the same. I was on the same dose as I had been on all those years and yet - like you my blood level plummeted to 50. I agree with you totally the formula has definitely changed. I also asked my new Meno consultant about it last week and she said we are not alone she has seen other women who have found the same. I am now on Estradot patches and back to feeling ok again at long last. I hope you can sort something out for yourself and will also start feeling better xx
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I didn't even have to plead my case with the doctor. It was like they already knew there was an issue with the new bottles.
I really hope this new prescription is different but I am not holding my breath.
I will post back here once I have collected it.
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Hi All,
I have picked up my prescription and because of the note from the doctor the pharmacist came to speak to me.
She had not come across this problem but was very happy to let me explain.
She had already noticed that the bottles they were now giving out were in smaller boxes and so was happy to listen to my experience of using the new one.
When she came out to speak to me she had in her hand one of the old bottles so I was able to say that that was the one I needed not the new cylindrical one. I explained that even though all the labelling looked the same and it listed the same ingredients there was a difference and all my symptoms had come back almost instantly.
She said she would go and put up my new prescription and make sure that my repeat was for this type.
I can not tell you how happy I am and I can not wait to apply my gel tonight. x
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Update -
I applied the new (old) gel last night and I woke up feeling so much better. I slept well and I didn't have the jitters I have been waking up with since being on the new shaped bottle.
I have also noticed that this gel is more tacky when you apply it, it also seems to absorb quicker and even has a slightly different smell. So even though they say there is no difference, I believe there definitely is.
If any of you are struggling with the new shaped bottles, please ask your doctor to specify Oestrogen rather than Oestrodose.
Huge thanks to Kathleen on this forum for that excellent advice. You have literally saved me from going back to a very dark place. :clapping: