Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nellf on July 05, 2023, 11:33:20 AM
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Just had the worst night ever. Post menopausal 5 years now and changed to estraderm 75 and utrogestan 200mg. Had to reduce the utrogestan because i was feeling depressed anxious and all those horrible feelings. Suffered the most horrific heart burn last night and had to go back to bed as I didn't sleep. Not sleeping g either to be honest most nights. Is anyone else just fee like giving up. I don't know whether it's my estrogen that's too low or the progesterone. I feel like I have no quality of life just now and have the most wonderful partner eho is understanding kind and loving. I'm scared to stop the hrt cos I don't know what's on the other side for me. Anyone feeling the same. I'm tired of feeling like this
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I'm so sorry you are feeling so bad. Do you think the heartburn is due to the utrogestan as i think that is a known side effect? If so then switching to vaginal use might avoid that and at least reduce that symptom.
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Agree with switching to vaginal use, you shouldn't get heartburn that way. How long have you been on the new regime and what prompted it? Insomnia is often a symptom of low oestrogen but for some people (including me) utrogeston can cause it. It would be better to change one thing at a time or perhaps a couple of months of cyclical hrt if you can't work out which is causing it.
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Thanks guys. I do think it's the progesterone. I get recurrent cystitis and worried that it might spark off an episode. Seems I get a uti just by the wind changing direction ::) Hopefully arrange a call back with my Gp tomorrow. I'm supposed to be going away on holiday with my aunt a week on Thursday but just can't seem to get up any enthusiasm. Its such a struggle getting things right. It's tuff fir us women
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There is a version of progrsterone you can use rectally, it's called cyclogest, but it's only licensed for fertility use I think
However, I know some ladies on here have been able to get it so perhaps worth asking your GP. Also, I wonder if you can use utrogestan that way too, not sure, perhaps someone else will know. Either way, heartburn and the risk of gastritis returning, is the reason I've never used utrogestan orally.
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Hi Nellf
I just wanted to say that I feel exactly the same. I no longer look forward to my days and nights just hoping i get through them.
I used to be such a happy positive person before meno ravaged my mind and body.
Im sorry your struggling but you are not alone.
I really and truly hope things improve for you
Take care xxx
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Thanks all. I just feel like giving up. It's so nice to have the support of women that know how you feel. I'm just tired of trying different options all the time and getting nowhere. It's so hard for us. Hopefully get a chat with my GP this week
Lots of hugs to all the women out there struggling with all of these symptoms xxx
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Hi Nellf
Sorry to reply again, but I was having problems with utrogestan, I couldn't tolerate it either orally or vaginally at night as it made me wired and affected my sleep.
I have since started using cyclogest, its off licence I believe for hrt use as Penguin rightly said, but my doctor prescribed it for me no problem. It comes in 200mg and 400mg pessaries. Since I am post meno as well, I use the progesterone every day, I was initially using the cyclogest 200mg every day but after about 12 days it started to make me feel wired so I now cut the 200mg in half and 100mg, which I use rectally.
If you can't use anything vaginally the cyclogest maybe for you. Its also bio-identical
I hope that helps xxx
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Also wanted to add that if it is only occasional heartburn, a swig of Gaviscon Advance, always stops it in its tracks for me. Better than the Gaviscon that just treats the symptoms.
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U mention 'uti' however: I would suggest speaking to the Nurse Practitioner and ask her to send a fresh urine sample to a Lab for testing. Do read the 'bladder issues' and vaginal atrophy threads. VA can mimic repeated urine-type infection symptoms really really well. 4 me it was like razor blades : :o up there!
In the mean time, I would ask for appropriate VA treatment - the idea is that 1 uses it for 2-3 weeks every night then drop down to when necessary. Some ladies manage with a few nights a week, others require every night for a long time, plus Yes or Sylc moistories. [I can't spell that word :-\ ].
I've suffered heart burn from an early age, initially caused by anxiety. In recent years when I developed an associated irritating cough my GP prescribed 'omeprazolol'. I have found in recent months that anything sugary will cause that cough too, particularly ginger flavoured drinks :(.
Don't give up. MayB ask for a referral to a dedicated NHS Menopause Clinic, not a Gynae. The waiting lists are long so getting onto a list sooner rather than later might be a good idea. Take a list with you to the GP appt..
If HRT is causing really bad side effects would a break of 3 months be appropriate discogirl? It isn't always a cure.
We have a holiday thread: would your Aunt have gone through similar, there may be a family link to your symptoms.
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It is such a rollercoaster Nellf but we must not give up.
I'm emerging out of a 10 day period of low motivation, no energy, no sense of purpose etc etc that appears out of nowhere from time to time. It felt particularly bad this time as I've felt pretty good mentally for several weeks/month and almost dared to think I was "back to normal". Am trying to work out if it links to my HRT regime but there never seems to be a consistent pattern and every 3 months or so I feel my own hormones have yet another shift which adds to the confusion.
Back to my mantras "one day at a time" and "it will pass".
You aren't alone.
Hope you're feeling better soon. X
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Thanks all. Been taking omeprazole for the heartburn and have a regime where I take antibiotics after sex, not that there's much happening on that front🙄 I eventually went private and was given vagifem but couldn't really take that cos of the irritation. I have been looking at cyclogest and want to discuss options with my GP. I truly would be happy to stop the progesterone and just have routine checks. I'm not taking the utrogestan tonight, so I'll see how it goes. My poor partner hss been amazing. It's true a day at a time. We will get therexxx
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Morning Nellf - initially vaginal atrophy treatment may sting and irritate. That's usually due to the vulva and vagina area being very thin, the advice is to use a little at first and not to put it too far into the vagina. Easing the skin so that it becomes comfortable which is why we load for 2-3 weeks. Some ladies find that a moisturiser as well on the labia helps symptoms.
VA needs treatment to keep the skin soft and supple. This helps avoid dryness and difficulty with penetration. I use Ovestin - same idea, different way of delivery.
When I get the need2P symptoms I swallow 2 Nurofen, 3 times a day to help. Let us know how you get on.
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U mention 'uti' however: I would suggest speaking to the Nurse Practitioner and ask her to send a fresh urine sample to a Lab for testing. Do read the 'bladder issues' and vaginal atrophy threads. VA can mimic repeated urine-type infection symptoms really really well. 4 me it was like razor blades : :o up there!
In the mean time, I would ask for appropriate VA treatment - the idea is that 1 uses it for 2-3 weeks every night then drop down to when necessary. Some ladies manage with a few nights a week, others require every night for a long time, plus Yes or Sylc moistories. [I can't spell that word :-\ ].
I've suffered heart burn from an early age, initially caused by anxiety. In recent years when I developed an associated irritating cough my GP prescribed 'omeprazolol'. I have found in recent months that anything sugary will cause that cough too, particularly ginger flavoured drinks :(.
Don't give up. MayB ask for a referral to a dedicated NHS Menopause Clinic, not a Gynae. The waiting lists are long so getting onto a list sooner rather than later might be a good idea. Take a list with you to the GP appt..
If HRT is causing really bad side effects would a break of 3 months be appropriate discogirl? It isn't always a cure.
We have a holiday thread: would your Aunt have gone through similar, there may be a family link to your symptoms.
Hi clkd,
Yes that's always an option.
Don't get me wrong I know hrt doesnt solve everything, but in fits and starts it has been okay for me
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Hello Nellf
I just wanted to add my sympathies as I know how you feel. I am also post meno and I am beyond frustrated with it all.
I stopped using Utrogestan about a year ago and I find that Cyclogest is much better. I cut a 200mg pessary in half and use it vaginally every other night. This regime was prescribed to me by Newson Health which is a private meno clinic. For the Oestrogen I use a 1mg sachet of gel daily.
I have been on HRT for a long time and a few years ago I came off it completely to see where I was naturally. For me some night sweats and flushes came back and I noticed some vaginal dryness. I was coping with all of those but then I became very tearful and that bothered me most of all. My GP told me that the crying was due to low Oestrogen so I went back on HRT. I haven't ruled out trying to come off it again in the future though as the symptoms may be different next time.
I hope you find the right regime soon and sending hugs.
Take care.
K.
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Just had a call from my Gp. She thinks that my symptoms are not progesterone related and are really due to my low mood and anxiety. We talked about alternatives and the only real option was to have the mirena coil fitted. I expressed my concerns at this as it's a procedure that may not work. We talked about cyclogest and has asked the practice pharmacist about its use in hrt regimens. She also suggested sleep apps and drinking peppermint tea. Under no circumstances was I to stop the utrogestan. So basically I've to take it in the morning and have an omeprazole before breakfast. She also asked why I wasn't using my private consultant to discuss these issues with, as she could also provide her with guidance on how to move forward with me. Also GPs are not a liberty to check oestrogen levels and do not do that for women on hrt. I have made an appointment with my consultant for the 10th of Aug, but at £200 it's not many people that can sustain this. Left feeling defeated. She also mentioned we could try a new anxiety med. I'm currently taking 200mg sertraline prescribe for severe pmt in my late 40's. Realistically I think I was perimenopausal. At least she hoped that I had a good holiday, and that maybe a change of scenery would do me some good...........youve got to laugh 😃
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Nellf
I'm so sorry, your gp sounded dismissive, but this isn't surprising.
Let us know what she says regarding the cyclogest, as my doctor prescribed it no problem. It is used for fertility treatment but all it is, is progesterone, and then all you have to do is get the dosage correct.
Why on earth can't gp's check estrogen levels for women on hrt? I know some women say that you don't need to get blood levels checked however at least they can give you a ball park as to what you're levels are doing. And you're right £200 for a consultation privately is a lot of money.
To be honest, when I've asked to get my blood estrogen levels checked my gp, he's always arranged that for me.
Are you going to take your utrogestan vaginally in the mornings?
Take care, I'm sorry your gp wasn't more help xxx
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I take my omeprazolol capsule with my breakfast to layer the digestive track for the day.
£200.00 isn't a lot to spend for advice that will help. I was paying £150+ for private treatment in the 1990s, supposedly for an hour's consult. However ....... [long story short].
As you say, this in't possible for many: I would like to see private practice advising GPs who would oversee treatment/s suggested with an annual private review to make sure that we get as much good advice as is possible.
Many women have problems with progesterone, your GP should be aware of this. It is so tiring! Hormone blood tests are reliably un-reliable.
Go on your holiday. U may be surprised ! Let us know how you get on.
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Thanks guys. I may try the utrogestan vaginally and see how I get on regardless of my gp. The reason apparently the dont test estrogen levels is because they do t necessarily reflect how a woman is feeling. The levels may be OK but you may still feel that you need more. She suggested that I might also need more estrogen. My head hurts🤪🤪🤪
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Hi Nellf,
I hope you had a better night last night, it can be soul destroying trying to keep it all going when sleep deprivation and heartburn are tossed in the mix as well as everything else.
Those seem to be my two main side effects from utrogestan 100mg dosed vaginally, unfortunately the heartburn's still awful even though it's reduced when dosing vaginally, there must be a systemic action causing it rather than a local reaction.
The UTIs sound draining too. Can you improvise an inserter tool? Like maybe cutting the end off a neurofen syringe, then you could try dosing utrogestan rectally. Some people use a finger, disposible gloves come to mind plus lube of course. I've done it with other meds and if I develop a problem with taking it vaginally, I'll go that way instead. It must go at least two finger knuckles deep to get absorbed properly.
I sometimes use omeprazole, but it makes me nauseaus after a few days, by a week or ten days I stop it again because any ulceration pains will be easing by then and I'll need to feel better from the nausea.
I recently bought a CBD vaporiser, it was reduced from £35 to £17 and I was going on holiday, to England actually, where THC isn't allowed yet and I thought it would be a reasonable substitute for getting to sleep. (Note the price, cheap ones are basically empty of CBD and don't work.)
I was surprised, it didn't help with sleep, not that I noticed, but it was amazing for anxiety when I was away and I'm still using it now even though I'm home and can do my own thing again. I plan to buy another when it runs out (non refillable unfortunately).
Someone sent me this link for a factsheet on medical uses which I found interesting.
https://mychronicrelief.com/cannabis-101-thc-cbd/
PS I just read the new messages, I'm sorry your GP is an idiot, progesterone intolerance doesn't feel like needing a holiday, it feels like your entire world has crashed into the suburbs of hell and everyone gets transported back home safely except you.
I asked repeatedly can I use utrogestan vaginally, spoke to maybe four different people from both the GPs and the HRT clinic, who all were going to find out and get back to me. I'm still waiting for all of them and using it vaginally anyway.
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Thanks meno-Mel. I ferl my GP is on a different planet. I guess you've just got to use trial and error.....onwards and upwards xxxx
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I don't think that any HRT is designed to be delivered rectally ? By doing this with mediation it gets the drug into the body really fast which probably would defeat the object with an HRT regime? This should be done under GP supervision, literally.
Occasionally a drug can be inserted vaginally to ease symptoms of taking some orally.
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I don't think that any HRT is designed to be delivered rectally ? By doing this with mediation it gets the drug into the body really fast which probably would defeat the object with an HRT regime? This should be done under GP supervision, literally.
Occasionally a drug can be inserted vaginally to ease symptoms of taking some orally.
You're right, as with so many hrt bits and pieces it's borrowed from the more glamorous fertility treatments and not created with hrt in mind, but progesterone is progesterone, I don't think it's fussy where it goes in!
When it's inserted vaginally the advice is to wait half an hour before showering because by then all the dose you are getting should have transferred over to the bloodstream. If its faster rectally, it can't be by much.
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Medication delivered rectally is fast tracked through the body which would surely defeat the object of HRT being slow release :-\. Bums aren't built for things to be pushed into, they are for expelling rubbish.
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Hi meno-mel,
I use cyclogest pessaries rectally as I am literally suicidal on utrogestan, whichever way I shove it.
My GP, said that the cyclogest pessaries are fine to use either rectally or vaginally and on the balance menopause website they giving cyclogest pessaries as an alternative to utrogestan capsules while the shortages are in place.
I've done research on line as well and there doesn't seem to be very much difference regarding the two drugs and absorption time into the blood stream
I hope this helps xxx
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I mentioned cycligest to my GP. She wasn't sure whether or not it was avaliable to give as part of an HRT regimens. She was checking with the practice pharmacist. But she never mentioned it as being an option. The only thing she offerd was the marina coil. But as I'm sensitive to synthetic progesterone, one of the reasons I was put on the utrogestan I don't think that would be an option. I've managed to get an appointment with my private consultant on the 10th of August. Her secretary was wonderful and squeezed me in at the end of one of her clinics. I've started taking the utrogestan orally in the morning so we'll see how that goes
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How R we all this morning? R U getting enough sunshine 🌞?
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I'm in the garden right now. It's lovely. Didn't sleep that great last night, but I'll continue to take the utrogestan orally in the morning. Gonna start getting holiday things sorted. Who knows my GP may be right, maybe I'll come back a different woman. That would be nice. Preferably one who isn't sensitive to progesteroneand is 30 years younger. Thanks for all the advice it's really good to know that you're not aline in the journey of ours xxxx
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hi Nellf
Im so glad you're having a nice afternoon.
you go and have a lovely holiday.
by the way if you do find that time machine while your on holiday that can take you back 30yrs be sure to let me know where it is!!!
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..... and breath.
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For sure. We all deserved a trip in that time machine. Thanks for the support. We are all strong beautiful women and we will find a way through this. Sending love xxxxx
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Did U all improve today?
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ClkD must admit I did feel better today ill keep taking the utrogestan in the morning and see how it goes. Its only been 2 days, so early on. Fingers crossed 🤞
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How R we all this morning. If I told you what happened yesterday you'd know where I live. However, there was almost a riot ;D and it involves traffic wardens >:(
Off to watch le tour later.
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Had a fairly good day. Case packed, almost. Just had tea and going to settle down with a glass of wine, or two and see what to watch. One day at a time ladies. Be kind to yourselvesxxx
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I haven't had a glass for years, I'll mayB take a sip if DH opens something special. Alcohol is of course, a depressant. It can affect in peri-menopause too.
Take a good book with you ;-).
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Ooh Nellf have a fab holiday. I was feeling anxious and off before my hols and first day or two I found it hard to relax, but once I did it gave me the reset I needed. Hopefully will do the same for you! Enjoy every minute, it's raining here!
And CLKD I agree re the alcohol, I get about half an hour of that warm nice feeling but the after effects are yuk. I only drink on hols now but I didn't like any of the wine in Turkey