Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nix on June 29, 2023, 09:28:20 AM
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Are there any ladies that still take Utrogestan after a hysterectomy and oophorectomy? If so can I ask how much you take and how often? Wondering if a 2 week on, 2 week off program might work? Would that be the closest pattern to a natural cycle? Or would it be better to take it daily or every other day? I realise there is a lot of controversy around using/needing Utrogestan after a hysterectomy but I think it’s the missing link for me. I did come across a lady here that was taking it every other day. If that is you and you read this, if you don’t mind… can I ask how it benefited you? I know we are all different but I’m curious all the same.
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Excuse my ignorance Nix but why would you need progesterone after having your womb removed ? I thought the only thing that progesterone did was thin the lining.. sorry if I’m confused . X
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Excuse my ignorance Nix but why would you need progesterone after having your womb removed ? I thought the only thing that progesterone did was thin the lining.. sorry if I’m confused . X
Hi, no problem at all. Many doctors are coming round to the idea that progesterone is beneficial as it is used by more than one part of the body. Considering this, I think it makes sense to take it. I personally feel like it might be the missing link for me. I have listened to many doctors talk about symptoms of low progesterone and estrogen dominance and I definitely have some of these symptoms. I came across a lady on this forum some weeks back that started taking it every other day after her hysterectomy and she has reported good results. Apparently, there is a thread on here somewhere all about it. I also have an endometriosis plaque that wasn’t removed so progesterone will help with that. The good thing is, now that I’ve had a hysterectomy, I won’t need as much as I did before which should mean less risk/side effects.
This explains it better than I can. 😊
https://youtu.be/gJYdAY_trlY
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Thank you for explaining …. This is fascinating! And shows we have so much still to learn about women’s hormonal health.. thank you x
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I hope you don't mind me answering from the opposite point of view. I know the effects progesterone has on me and I have my suspicions as to why it hurts me so badly each month, in my case it's due to having a syndrome with hypermobility as one of the symptoms. In other words my soft tissues are too soft and progesterone softens them even more. As a result I feel literally like I'm falling apart and I'm much more likely to dislocate something. I've reflux, my throat is raw and I snore, all only while taking progesterone. My body panics internally and I'm in fight or flight for the duration.
That's enough about me, I wanted to offer the possibility you need those effects of progesterone to loosen your tissues and make you feel relaxed and comfortable, which is what I think might be happening to many women who like the effects. If you like the feeling then you should take it imo, listen to your body. My body is screaming at me not to take it, yours could use a bit extra. There is no denying the effects are quite dramatic and I'm sure the advice is to take it if endometriosis might have spread before the hysterectomy.
I was reading the pre-meno averages for female hormone levels. After conversion to the same scale of ng/ml the ranges were;
Testosterone 0.15 to 0.7
Oestrogen 0.03 to 0.4
Progesterone 0.1 to 25.0
I saw a youtube video of Dr Newson saying women have three times more testosterone than oestrogen.
I was surprised so I googled it and the info is hard to find among the cultural bull of "women have more oestrogen" which leaves the question, compared to what?
You'd assume it's a statement about women, but it's not "Women have more oestrogen than testosterone or progesterone", no, it's actually a statement about men, "Women have more oestrogen than men" is the complete sentence.
That minor ommission of effectively never seeing women as the subject, only the object, means the general belief is that women need massive amounts of oestrogen. But look at the numbers, it's not true.
That's my penny's worth, good luck :sunny:
P.S. There aren't the same risks associated with utrogestan as the older types anyway, sounds quite safe to me.
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Hi Nix, you will also read that women can be progesterone intolerant. Like you I had a total hysterectomy with BSO2 years ago. I tried utrogestan as I had endometriosis before surger. I gave up after 3 weeks as I felt worse and worse, I felt extremely lethargic, really down, no motivation and my sleep was all over the place.
Uk menopause specialists say that if you don’t need it don’t take it estrogen only HRT has shown to be protective against breast cancer.
I’d say to concentrate on balancing estrogen and adding testosterone. Not all gps will prescribe testosterone but as your ovaries were removed you can really argue for it.
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Hi Nix, I think I might be the woman you refer to in your first message. I managed for eighteen months just taking oestrogen and testosterone. It was ok, but I felt like I was never far away from anxiety and that I had little resilience. So in January this year I started taking utrogestan. I instantly felt calm and serene, it was rather wonderful! However taking it every night was too much and I felt it was building up in my system and making me feel tired in the day. That's why I tried taking it alternate nights. This seems to suit me very well. So my combination is 3.5 pumps of oestrogel, 6mg per day of testim ( so a tube lasts me 8 days rather than 10 - this make all the difference for me, 5 mg just doesnt cut it) and then utrogestan alternate nights. My sleep is much more consistent too.
I would like to add though that I never found utrogestan a problem before my surgery so I am not one of those women who struggles with it anyway. Feel free to message me if you would like x
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Thank you for explaining …. This is fascinating! And shows we have so much still to learn about women’s hormonal health.. thank you x
👍🏽
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Thank you for explaining …. This is fascinating! And shows we have so much still to learn about women’s hormonal health.. thank you x
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I hope you don't mind me answering from the opposite point of view. I know the effects progesterone has on me and I have my suspicions as to why it hurts me so badly each month, in my case it's due to having a syndrome with hypermobility as one of the symptoms. In other words my soft tissues are too soft and progesterone softens them even more. As a result I feel literally like I'm falling apart and I'm much more likely to dislocate something. I've reflux, my throat is raw and I snore, all only while taking progesterone. My body panics internally and I'm in fight or flight for the duration.
That's enough about me, I wanted to offer the possibility you need those effects of progesterone to loosen your tissues and make you feel relaxed and comfortable, which is what I think might be happening to many women who like the effects. If you like the feeling then you should take it imo, listen to your body. My body is screaming at me not to take it, yours could use a bit extra. There is no denying the effects are quite dramatic and I'm sure the advice is to take it if endometriosis might have spread before the hysterectomy.
I was reading the pre-meno averages for female hormone levels. After conversion to the same scale of ng/ml the ranges were;
Testosterone 0.15 to 0.7
Oestrogen 0.03 to 0.4
Progesterone 0.1 to 25.0
I saw a youtube video of Dr Newson saying women have three times more testosterone than oestrogen.
I was surprised so I googled it and the info is hard to find among the cultural bull of "women have more oestrogen" which leaves the question, compared to what?
You'd assume it's a statement about women, but it's not "Women have more oestrogen than testosterone or progesterone", no, it's actually a statement about men, "Women have more oestrogen than men" is the complete sentence.
That minor ommission of effectively never seeing women as the subject, only the object, means the general belief is that women need massive amounts of oestrogen. But look at the numbers, it's not true.
That's my penny's worth, good luck :sunny:
P.S. There aren't the same risks associated with utrogestan as the older types anyway, sounds quite safe to me.
Hi there, thanks so much for your reply!
Wow, sorry you have such a hard time with progesterone, your condition sounds so painful. Have you tried taking it vaginally? Wondering if that might make a difference? I took progesterone before my surgery and didn’t have any side effects at all. I don’t get the sleepiness others seem to get from it either. 🤷♀️
The hormone level ratio is really interesting. At first glance it’s hard to believe because it’s been so heavily drummed into us that testosterone is a male hormone. I was lucky to have it prescribed some time back so was taking it way before my surgery. It has been a tremendous help with the chronic fatigue symptoms I suffer from and I now have a sex drive which was totally non existent before. I never want to give up my testosterone and will fight tooth and nail if anyone tries to take it away! I spent years struggling to get through the day and was unable to have any real quality of life. It’s hard to accept the years I’ve wasted not knowing testosterone would be helpful.
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Hi Nix, you will also read that women can be progesterone intolerant. Like you I had a total hysterectomy with BSO2 years ago. I tried utrogestan as I had endometriosis before surger. I gave up after 3 weeks as I felt worse and worse, I felt extremely lethargic, really down, no motivation and my sleep was all over the place.
Uk menopause specialists say that if you don’t need it don’t take it estrogen only HRT has shown to be protective against breast cancer.
I’d say to concentrate on balancing estrogen and adding testosterone. Not all gps will prescribe testosterone but as your ovaries were removed you can really argue for it.
Hi there, thanks for your post. I already take testosterone and it has been great! I honestly couldn’t manage without it. It’s hard to know what to do… I guess at the end of the day it will be a case of trial and error. I’m having a blood test to check oestrogen levels next week to make sure all is in order. Don’t quote me but I think the level of risk with progesterone is linked to the amount taken. If so, maybe a small amount might lower the risks but still make a difference.
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Hi Nix, I think I might be the woman you refer to in your first message. I managed for eighteen months just taking oestrogen and testosterone. It was ok, but I felt like I was never far away from anxiety and that I had little resilience. So in January this year I started taking utrogestan. I instantly felt calm and serene, it was rather wonderful! However taking it every night was too much and I felt it was building up in my system and making me feel tired in the day. That's why I tried taking it alternate nights. This seems to suit me very well. So my combination is 3.5 pumps of oestrogel, 6mg per day of testim ( so a tube lasts me 8 days rather than 10 - this make all the difference for me, 5 mg just doesnt cut it) and then utrogestan alternate nights. My sleep is much more consistent too.
I would like to add though that I never found utrogestan a problem before my surgery so I am not one of those women who struggles with it anyway. Feel free to message me if you would like x
Hello Gnatty, yes I was referring to you! I also use the gel as I began having problems with the patches when the warmer weather arrived, they were literally peeling off after a few hours. I’m currently taking 4 pumps a day, 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening (I’m soon to have a test to see how my levels are doing). It’s a bit of a faff but what can one do. 😩 I’m taking 1 pump of Tostran 2% every other day… not sure how that compares to your dose? I don’t know how to work it out. 😬 Thanks, I will def PM you… feel free to message me too, it would be nice to chat x
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Hi Nix
If you still have endometriosis deposits then as you say, despite having had a hysterectomy you will continue to need progesterone medically, to prevent stimulation and growth of these, so on this basis alone you should take it but on a continuous, not cyclical dose.
A few women as reported here, like to take it due to its sedative effect - but in this sense it is being used as a drug, rather than for any notional or magic balance between oestrogen and progesterone that is purported to be needed for well-being.
Indeed it is the balance between oestrogen and testosterone that is crucial and is what makes us women....! Of course we need progesterone in pregnancy, but only the in the very large quantities it is produced. Yes it is needed for other bodily functions and it continues to be produced throughout our life as it is also in men - in these very much smaller quantities.
Hurdity x
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Hi Nix
If you still have endometriosis deposits then as you say, despite having had a hysterectomy you will continue to need progesterone medically, to prevent stimulation and growth of these, so on this basis alone you should take it but on a continuous, not cyclical dose.
A few women as reported here, like to take it due to its sedative effect - but in this sense it is being used as a drug, rather than for any notional or magic balance between oestrogen and progesterone that is purported to be needed for well-being.
Indeed it is the balance between oestrogen and testosterone that is crucial and is what makes us women....! Of course we need progesterone in pregnancy, but only the in the very large quantities it is produced. Yes it is needed for other bodily functions and it continues to be produced throughout our life as it is also in men - in these very much smaller quantities.
Hurdity x
Good point Hurdity about the continuous dose. Nix, if you take it at all, then no days off, otherwise you'd expect to have a bleed, but post-hyterectomy I guess you'd get pain instead.
Huridity, When you say progesterone's still produced throughout life, do you mean even after the ovaries are removed?
Medicines are drugs and drugs are medicines, so are poisons, all the same, it's just a matter of dose and circumstances.
It's not helpful to attempt to demonise women wanting to feel normal by saying they are taking their legitimately prescribed progesterone as a drug rather than a medicine. That sort of argument is used against testosterone prescribing as well, who are these impetuous women who want to feel better? How dare they!
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You only need to take a look at the Surgical Menopause Facebook group to see that for a lot of us we only feel well when we add in progesterone. My oestrogen and testosterone aren't enough on their own. My resilience feels better with the progesterone. Histamine problems have gone too. And the point is those of us without ovaries aren't really in the same position are we as women that still have them?? So thank you I shall carry on taking the progesterone even if Hurdity, you think I am just taking it for sedative purposes. I have lost all three hormones what sort of nonsense is it that I don't need all three replacing.
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I know this is an older post but i wanted to ask how the ladies taking progesterone are feeling now? Also where did you get it prescribed from? My GP won’t prescribe it
Thanks
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I am lucky in that my GP is happy to prescribe it. She just accepts that some of us without wombs do better with it than without. I'm aware though that the risk of breast cancer is lower if we don't take progesterone so it may be this summer I shall see if I can manage without.... x
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There's a long tread started (I think) by Mary G on bioidentical hormones. If you don't need it for womb protection you may find a lower dose suits you better than the ones produced for hrt.
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I am lucky in that my GP is happy to prescribe it. She just accepts that some of us without wombs do better with it than without. I'm aware though that the risk of breast cancer is lower if we don't take progesterone so it may be this summer I shall see if I can manage without.... x
Hi Gnatty, have a look at Louise Newson Facebook today, she posted about progesterone and discusses that some women really benefit from it after a hysterectomy. I keep trying utrogestan but give up after a week or so, it makes me feel really warm at night, groggy when I wake up, not sure it helps with the sleep. Might persevere and like you trialling every other day.
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Hi I did watch her Instagram live and yes it was really good. It sounds like they are now starting to look at progesterone creams for those of us who just need a small amount because of not having wombs to worry about.
Do try alternate nights, it really was a big improvement for me especially regarding feeling too warm at night. I did try vaginally too but that made me even warmer, probably because you absorb more that way....Let me know how it goes. x
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Thanks I will. I keep going back to it as when I tried the mirena for 3 months only (was quite a few years ago) I slept amazingly. Hoping that utrogestan would have that effect but not quite so far. Again, early days I need to try for a few weeks.
Did you mention that you are on sandrena? I’m on estrogel since January/february after being on the patches for a little while. Estrogel seems to suit me but also interested in trying sandrena as it covers a smaller skin area and someone mentioned that it dries quicker than estrogel. But since then read that it takes longer to dry so not sure if I should bother.
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Well I have swapped back to oestrogel! It may just have been a coincidence but I started to get some palpitations whist on the Sandrena. There's always something!
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Hello ladies.
My nurse practitioner told me that Utrogestan was only prescribed to protect my womb lining, it wasn't supposed to make me feel good! God forbid any of us have that sort of side effect eh!?
Take care ladies.
K.
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Well I have swapped back to oestrogel! It may just have been a coincidence but I started to get some palpitations whist on the Sandrena. There's always something!
I’ll stick to estrogel. On another note, I took an utrogestan vaginally at 7pm last night (same time as my 2 estrogel evening pumps), went to sleep at 2230 and woke up at 5am. Perfect 👌