Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: cjmca on June 27, 2023, 09:02:20 PM
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I have to say, I feel like an absolute prized idiot at the mo. About 5 days ago, I applied Ovestin cream externally, including over the urethra, probably a bit too liberally. And it was right before bed, didn't pee afterwards. Well - I seem to have given myself a UTI from it. The exact same happened in Dec last year, I suspected it was applying Ovestin that did it. Or rather, I should have showered beforehand because clearly there must be some bacteria that is getting into the cream when I apply it, and travelling up my urethra, and saying hello to my bladder where it takes up residence and has a very painful party.
Has anyone else every experienced this from applying Ovestin, or any other cream for that matter? Lord, I feel like a total fool for doing this to myself. I had interstitial cystitis for 3 years, that thankfully went into remission once I got on HRT. But it was a very painful 3 years, and now any time I get a UTI, it's like a bit of a PTSD trigger. My brain tells me oh well, you're stuffed now - you'll be stuck like this like you were before. In a slight panic as I was prescribed 3 days of Keflex antibiotic (altho it seems like this should be a minimum of 5 days) - I felt a bit better end of day 2, but day 3 was back where I started. Now taking Germentin and on day 2, but blimey, my bladder and urethra feel like they're on fire. Oddly enough it doesn't really burn when I pee, but it just feels very raw all the time. Dipstick is negative but that doesn't surprise me, since they miss up to 60% of infection.. but I'm panicking a little. Scared this isn't going to away :-\
Never using Ovestin again after this :'(
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I am sorry to hear you have a UTI. Ovestin should not cause a UTI. Could it just be a coincidence? VA mimics UTI's also so it could be VA rather then a UTI.
I can understand this is an anxious time for you and brings back awful memories but it may just be you are having a VA flare. I apply Ovestin internally too and use Yes VM to help it to glide in or it will not go in for me. I just put it in as far as it will go. I then apply some to the outer area by mixing it on the palm of my hand with a little Yes VM too.
Would it help to ask for a urine sample to be sent to a lab? This will tell you if you have a UTI or a VA flare.
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It is probably the vaginal atrophy stinging - VA mimics urine infection-type symptoms really really well. If the vulva area is dry and the skin thinning due to loss of oestrogen, then initial applications of appropriate treatment may well sting. Was it a single application if it's 5 days ago? 4 me it was like razor blades :o up there !
One should never be prescribed ABs without a urine test being sent to a lab for growing. GPs still don't get it :bang: :bang: :bang:
Try not to panic. The body is very tender down there anyway, the vulva area needs TLC ;-). I occasionally use KY Jelly on the outer area when very dry and Ovestin internally regularly. I also put a little of the latter on the labia on the nights that I put the 'ovestin' in.
U haven't 'done anything to yourself' other than try an appropriate VA treatment. Perhaps try 'yes' or 'sylc' moistorsor ? An perhaps don't insert the 'ovestin' as deeply into the vagina for the first couple of nights.
The body is full of bacteria, most of it good.
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You might not suit Ovestin and it's irritated your urethra. It does burn sometimes and I've been using it for years. I usually apply Bepanthen on top of the Ovestin to stop the stinging, also make sure it's rubbed in until clear, if I leave a blob it will irritate. Sometimes less is more.
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Could it be the ovestin just 'waking things up' so to speak?
I remember when I first started using ovestin and it didn't half sting for a few days.
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It is probably the vaginal atrophy stinging - VA mimics urine infection-type symptoms really really well. If the vulva area is dry and the skin thinning due to loss of oestrogen, then initial applications of appropriate treatment may well sting. Was it a single application if it's 5 days ago? 4 me it was like razor blades :o up there !
One should never be prescribed ABs without a urine test being sent to a lab for growing. GPs still don't get it :bang: :bang: :bang:
Try not to panic. The body is very tender down there anyway, the vulva area needs TLC ;-). I occasionally use KY Jelly on the outer area when very dry and Ovestin internally regularly. I also put a little of the latter on the labia on the nights that I put the 'ovestin' in.
U haven't 'done anything to yourself' other than try an appropriate VA treatment. Perhaps try 'yes' or 'sylc' moistorsor ? An perhaps don't insert the 'ovestin' as deeply into the vagina for the first couple of nights.
The body is full of bacteria, most of it good.
It's a full-blown UTI, the same thing happened last December when I used Ovestin. I can feel quite unwell with UTI's, and defo felt it with this one. Because I can get VA symptoms at the drop of a hat, sometimes I can be quite liberal with the Ovestin application and just.. smother everything down there in it. I think I did encourage bacteria into the urethral area when I used it a few days ago, by just moving the cream around all over and moving it around too much, including directly over the urethra. I really wasn't thinking - it had been a really hot day, I'd been sweating like crazy, and I should have showered beforehand. I have a gut feeling if I'd done that, I wouldn't be sat here with a very upset bladder. When I applied the ovestin, it didn't really sting at all - but then I have (or thought I had!) the VA piece somewhat under control.
But that said, there is definitely an atrophy problem still going on - or rather should I say, a problem with finding a regime for me that keeps it completely at bay. I recently bumped up my systemic estrogen quite considerably - from 75 to 125, and within about 48 hours some of the remaining stubborn irritated-tissue type symptoms I'd been having had completely gone. But, then it somewhat came back, and it's always in the same areas - right around the urethra, and the vestibule.
And despite me being on 125 systemic estrogen, now using vagifem regularly - if I miss any external tissue with the ovestin, it's insane - literally one small section can feel like it's burning to touch, but right next to it is plump, healthy tissue that doesn't hurt at all. For me, the area immediately around the urethra is painful to the touch, as is the vestibule area in very specific spots (sort of the ones that you mightn't realise need covering with ovestin, like.. really get in there :o ) All that said, looking back on it - I had a transvaginal scan done recently, and s***, the gel they use burned the bejaysus out of the bits of me that aren't under control VA wise. Yeoowww!
Because my bladder has had a hard time, and I'm in Ireland.. I didn't want to wait for a culture to come back that would take rather a long time - I chose to take the ABX. Otherwise it's too much of a risk for me to leave it sit for a few days, I can become really quite unwell.
Anyway I'm lying here, rather in a pit of despair TBH. I can't even tell what is burning - I think it's my urethra, and lower bladder. I'm afraid to even put any ovestin anywhere near me now. I'm wondering if I mixed it in with just a little EmuAid to act as an antibacterial.. but then that might affect absorption.
At this point I feel like I have so many health issues, that it's really affecting quality of life. I just had a huge diagnosis of something else that I was trying to get my head around, and I literally don't have the energy for this. Am feeling very overwhelmed :-\
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I can understand why you are feeling overwhelmed. For my personally, VA is my worst meno system and I am so fed up with it.
Needing to apply lots of Ovestin daily is okay. To me it just means your skin needs the oestrogen. I also have to do this. I do not shower before applying Ovestin so I would not think a shower would make a difference. Perhaps it would help not to insert the applicator so far? Maybe you have hurt yourself by doing that.
From what I remember you have not been using Ovestin for very long and with chronic VA it can take time to see an improvement.
You are being very hard on yourself here. This is all new to you and it takes time to work out what is helpful for your VA and what is not.
I really am sorry you have another diagnosis. If you wish to you could post about it in the Private Lives section so members can support you through it.
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It is very unlikely that using a cream on the vulva and urethra will introduce bacteria. The area cleanses itself and with a cream it should protect from bugs.
Could you have been too heavy handed ? = bruising and the feelings of a UTI? I do think that you should be referred to a Consultant au fait with the kidney function and urinal tract. Because these symptoms have been going on far too long.
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I think because you have such a lot going on your VA has got worse, as it usually does with stress, illness, etc. I also would not have thought that Ovestin caused a bladder infection. You might be one of those women who has a reaction when first using Ovestin, if so mixing with a moisturiser will help until your body gets used to it.
If you still think you are causing the infection yourself, before using Ovestin (although I don't think you want to any more) use a baby wipe to cleanse the area first before applying.
Hope you get all your issues sorted quickly, rotten place to be in I know!
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Yep. It can become all consuming >:( and may limit where we decide to go etc.
Let us know how you get on and whether you need to change your regime. Every experience shared helps ;-)
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Yep. It can become all consuming >:( and may limit where we decide to go etc.
Let us know how you get on and whether you need to change your regime. Every experience shared helps ;-)
I just went ahead and applied some Ovestin again - it doesn't burn anywhere else - there's no burning at all internally, that's all fine and well under control and has been for years now. it just seems to be urethral atrophy of sorts. And it doesn't burn the urethra per se, but it just makes me feel like weeing myself when I apply it now. Like a horrendous urge to pee. I'm going to work on the presumption that my urethra hasn't been getting enough estrogen, and that in of itself is the issue. Although that doesn't explain waking up with a UTI a few days ago having applied ovestin the night before, which has definitely happened as I felt horrid with it, all flu-ey and devoid of energy. That bit has passed now, and am just left with a really pissed off urethra. No pun intended! Jaysus, it's so so so uncomfortable. I'm back to feeling like wearing any remotely tight clothing is uncomfy. UGH :-\
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After applying Ovestin I feel an urge to go to the loo right away. I try to distract myself for half an hour and then go. For me it is just inserting it and not the actual Ovestin that causes the feeling.
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After applying Ovestin I feel an urge to go to the loo right away. I try to distract myself for half an hour and then go. For me it is just inserting it and not the actual Ovestin that causes the feeling.
This isn't from inserting it internally tho - that doesn't cause any issues. It's just applying it externally, directly over urethra that does it. There's no VA internally, that's been treated effectively over a number of years, but urethra is.. stubborn. If I don't use estrogen directly over it, it can start to dry out, and pretty quickly. But I don't usually have such a bad reaction to Ovestin. I think I might have left it too long between dosages, and/or missed using it directly where it's needed. Can't understand why I woke up with a UTI either. All a bit of a mystery! :-\
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MayB use another product to the urethra area ? i.e. a gentle application of KY Jelly or a vulval moisturiser. It's the Trial and Error that can be tiring.
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MayB use another product to the urethra area ? i.e. a gentle application of KY Jelly or a vulval moisturiser. It's the Trial and Error that can be tiring.
I'm just wondering tho, I think I need to be using something estrogen-based to keep the urethral tissue thick enough, and to avoid any future UTI issues. It got me into awful bother when I had interstitial cystitis a few years ago. What got me into remission was 2x Vagifem a day for several months, plus I was using Ovestin internally and externally, going through tubes of the stuff.
I was looking up yesterday evening instructions for applying estriol cream - and I feel like an absolute wally. I found several urology clinics for ladies in the US, and they had the same instructions for "Fingertip Application of Estrogen Cream" - they were saying not really to put the estriol cream internally high up, but they actually recommend just putting a decent amount on your finger and using it around the vaginal vestibule and urethra. And bingo, those are the exact 2 areas I've been having issues with. They haven't been managed either by systemic nor Vagifem, and I know I haven't been using Ovestin nearly as often as I'd need to. And when I have been using it, I haven't been applying it to the correct areas (or certainly missing the areas that actually need it).
I'm just going to bite the bullet and stick with that, and do the initial 2-week loading dose they recommend with this particular application method. And just hope that makes a dent over time, and calms all of this down.
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That sounds positive. When you say you are going to do the two week loading dose, I would continue to use it daily after that because twice a week may not be enough for you. I have to use Ovestin daily or my symptoms flare.
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The wording on my Ovestin prescription from the gynae is "Apply to posterior introitus every night". I had to google what that meant, introitus is any kind of entrance and referring to to vaginal entrance leading to the vaginal canal. So I use externally around the vulva and just inside the entrance around the urethra and bladder wall. I dont use the applicator just a clean finger and rub in well. Leaving a blob causes irritation but if i rub it all in then apply a thin layer of Bepanten, or you could use your own moisturiser, it doesn't sting so much or at all.
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I understand your anxiety. I didn't have any UTIs till I was 56 then one went undiagnosed by my useless GP and I ended up in hospital in New York. Ever since then they let me have an emergency pack of antibiotics as I subsequently had bad ones that were intolerable waiting for lab culture's and im paranoid. Mine are specifically linked to sex. I was referred to a gyny urologist. I'm now using Ovestin externally and I do feel some sensation from it so not sure. I do worry about how long I will be using all this stuff and whether I can stop once I'm no longer sexually active.
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Jules - that answers my query in the other thread [don't ask which one though ;)]
VA treatment is for Life. To keep the area supple, stop the vulva and vaginal walls drying out which = itchiness and soreness. Once I began using 'ovestin' regularly sex became easier, along with a lot of KY Jelly ;-). Some ladies require nightly applications of VA treatment; others can manage with a few nights each week, others require treatment as well as a moisturiser. When I first began using 'ovestin' if I left more than 4 nights between applications, the need2P would return after use. Then I take Nurofen, 2 capsules 3 times a day to ease symptoms.
It's Trial and Error. If the vulval area is dry then initially treatment may sting ! Press on ;-)
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VA never ceases to surprise me two years on from starting my daily routine of Vagifem, Ovestin and lots of moisturiser.
I use Ovestin topically twice a day mixed with the moisturiser. I was lazy the other night and didn't bother, I thought I would give myself a break from the boring regime and just go to bed. Big mistake, the next day the pressure of needing to pee all day long returned but thankfully not the burning.
Yep, this routine is definitely for life and every day for me it seems.
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I can't miss a day either, if I don't use Vagifem I still use Ovestin daily. The body doesn't seem to store it or build up inside. I don't know how it works for those that only use twice a week.
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I can't miss a day either, if I don't use Vagifem I still use Ovestin daily. The body doesn't seem to store it or build up inside. I don't know how it works for those that only use twice a week.
I am also confused as to how some women only use VA treatment twice a week. I hope they do not have symptoms and just ignore them because they were told by their GP to only use it twice a week.
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That was me for the first year, struggling on 3 per week until I was finally referred to the vulva clinic. The doctor thought 3 was a lot!!
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That was me for the first year, struggling on 3 per week until I was finally referred to the vulva clinic. The doctor thought 3 was a lot!!
It is so frustrating when they try to make women reduce their treatment.
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I use vagifem twice a week which has been okay. I'm just preloading with Ovestin. I'm usually okay except after sex, I have a mild sensation of needing the loo for a day or so but I can tell the difference between that and a UTI. I wonder how our mothers and grandmothers coped!
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I think that the older generations probably dribbled urine ............. because they believed that they 'had to put up with it'. I worry about ethnic groups who don't know about VA or who are unable to access treatments.
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I think that the older generations probably dribbled urine ............. because they believed that they 'had to put up with it'. I worry about ethnic groups who don't know about VA or who are unable to access treatments.
And they probably stopped their sex life earlier. My grandma was an old woman at my age. You need an understanding GP. Last year when I requested a repeat of my profalactic, the GP responding started faltering. The receptionist phoned. I had to explain my arrangement so they knew I wasn't using them a lot but she then asked if I was sleeping with the same man. I had to make a complaint. Would they not have given me my prescription had I said it wasnt? We have to jump through such hoops
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I don't think that 1 is allowed to ask that question! Would she have asked a man :-\. that's awful.
Yes at 66 my Grandma looked old. Stooped over. Still jolly and hard working though.
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I don't think that 1 is allowed to ask that question! Would she have asked a man :-\. that's awful.
Yes at 66 my Grandma looked old. Stooped over. Still jolly and hard working though.
No, she wouldn't have asked a man. I did receive an apology. Maybe my sex life was more interesting than the receptionists 😉
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That crossed my mind too ::). Morning. I can understand a GP or Consultant asking that question in case of cross infection however.
How are the symptoms this morning?
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That crossed my mind too ::). Morning. I can understand a GP or Consultant asking that question in case of cross infection however.
How are the symptoms this morning?
Yes that's true. I don't think it was the GP asking though. Just a curious receptionist. The sensation has subsided now so probably not the Ovestin. The vagifem, vagirux or whatever they choose to give me, has really made a difference. I couldn't ever have had a sex life without it, too much irritation after.
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Press on with treatment [gently, of course] ;)
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Press on with treatment [gently, of course] ;)
Of course. One thing I do get a couple of days after sex is a discomfort over my ovaries, almost like when your ovulating. That sometimes makes my bladder feel under pressure as though I need the loo. I did mention it to the gyny man and I said it felt like my insides had got bashed a bit from sex. He said I'm probably right. I think that's since menopause. Everything is older and more fragile. I don't know if anybody else has that.