Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Menopausal Mona on June 21, 2023, 12:04:54 PM
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Hi all
First of all I want to say thank you for the wealth of knowledge I've already discovered whilst I have been lurking in the shadows, building up the courage to say hello and ask any questions.
I am 41 and just started HRT at the end of May. I had been experiencing symptoms for around 4-5 years, but without really realising it. The only symptoms I was really aware of was the hot flushes, having come from a family where we don't really talk about that sort of thing.... Two years ago I went to the GP as I had already had 2 years of hot flushes and sleepless nights, only to get laughed out the surgery (by a female doctor) as I was 1) too young and 2) on the progesterone only contraceptive pill, so she said any bloods done would throw a low result so wasn't worth doing.
Back in April/May I went to GP again, having gone off sick from work, feeling completely unable to cope with my workload (a job I have been in for over 10 years and very capable at!), crying, like, all the time, memory function starting to slip... I thought I had genuinely lost the plot, especially having just spent the last 5 years watching 3 loved ones deteriorate with forms of dementia. I wondered if early onset was my thing. Doctor listened to my symptoms, prescribed me some anti-depressants (which I didn't want but sold them to me as would help with night sweats too) sent me for blood tests, expecting a low score because of my pill, but had said "even if it's below 30, we'll still repeat them a second time, just in case". Had my results come in at 75!!!! I was shocked, I kind of knew I was, but still, I'm only 41. I was kinda relieved I guess, as it answered so many questions, once I started my own research and discovering what menopause really meant.
Anyway, at this point he prescribed me an oestrogen gel, for every night, and utrogestan, to be used for days 14-28. Thanks to you guys I worked out HRT would create me a new cycle, as I didn't know when my cycle was, as being on POP I haven't had a period in 10 years, so I started oestrogen straight away. After the first 2 weeks I started to feel more myself and started the progesterone..... which is where troubles began. I also decided to stop the Sertraline the doctor had prescribed, having read that antidepressants should not be prescribed for hormonal induced anxieties. By around day 6 of utrogestan (and no sertraline) I was starting to get "reactive" again, snapping over nothing. By day 9 of utrogestan, I wanted to talk to nobody, do nothing and just be left alone to sleep or cry. Every muscle and bone in my body hurts and I'm so tired, I feel like I could sleep on a washing line. Last night would have been day 10 of utrogestan, but I didn't take it, thinking this is about all I can take of feeling like this. This morning I woke up very tired and emotional again but after some food now, I'm not sooo bad. I'm just wondering, is this normal for the progesterone part of a cycle (as I had terrible PMT back when I did have periods before the POP) or should I start back on the sertraline that I gave up on so easily?? I stopped the Sertaline as it just made me sleep. I have to go back to work at some point (got less than 2 weeks left on note), bills wont pay themselves, and I can't function on anti-depressants. However, if I return to work in the state I've been in since the weekend I might not keep a job very long anyway. I have been the most miserable, tired mess I can imagine. If I'm not crying or feeling generally sorry for myself, I'm super angry and/or paranoid, everybody hates me and nobody loves me and I should just go eat a can of worms lol!!!
I'm struggling still trying to keep up the "everythings fine" act. I can't dwell in feeling like poop, cause I'll keep feeling like poop, but how do you deal with this? It's super exhausting. I have no female family members to talk to about menopause, we don't talk like that. I have very few female friends anyway, but I don't feel I can talk to them at the moment as they have their own dramas going on. My partner is superb, but I don't want to keep going on and being down around him as I know it becomes a drain on both people. Feel so alone and don't know what I'm supposed to be doing/feeling/reacting.
You know some days you just wish the earth would open up and swallow you whole? Thats how I feel. Not so bad that I'd do anything stupid.... I don't know, life is just hard.
Sorry this has become bleak, it wasn't meant to be!! Was just exploring symptoms with fellow sufferers, seeing if this is normal. It has to be..... Will it settle. Should I have kept going with utrogestan even though I felt so low, or was I right to stop it, and try again next month? I know I've read somewhere about the ability to play with our HRT/cycles and know every person is different, but would 9 days of progesterone do what its meant to? I'm still on the progesterone only pill too (Noriday) as the GP told me to keep taking for now so don't know if I'm potentially taking too much progesterone which was why I'd felt so low, or if I should stop that too. I have an appointmnt with Doctor tomorrow so will ask again about if I should stop it. Am also debating asking for the oral utrogestan as he has me on pessary form and I didn't like feeling so akky "down there" from pessary chalk!
Menopausal Mona
Thanks guys, sorry for the waffle - my brain is a bit hectic at the moment and struggle to contain a trail of thought lol.... Menopause Brain ;D
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Hi! you waffle away. Getting it out of the brain on2 paper can make a huge difference to logic.
No one is too young for perimenopause. Wish GPs would get on board with the fact that some girls have a few periods then no more, some never menstruate. Rare but it happens. Then moving through the age range, peri can begin at any time, often as 'early' as mid-30s. So your GP needs to put her head down a loo etc., etc., etc..
Progesterone part of an HRT regime can cause problems but there are several ways of delivering HRT. This part of a menstrual cycle can be hard work too. U may not require the progesterone part if you are using another form of delivery, your GP should know that. Hopefully some1 will be along with. more info for you.
Do print off 'hints for husbands' for your partner.
'pessary chalk' - love it! You'll fit right in ;-).
Let us know how you get on, do make a list of concerns to discuss.
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Hi! you waffle away. Getting it out of the brain on2 paper can make a huge difference to logic.
No one is too young for perimenopause. Wish GPs would get on board with the fact that some girls have a few periods then no more, some never menstruate. Rare but it happens. Then moving through the age range, peri can begin at any time, often as 'early' as mid-30s. So your GP needs to put her head down a loo etc., etc., etc..
Progesterone part of an HRT regime can cause problems but there are several ways of delivering HRT. This part of a menstrual cycle can be hard work too. U may not require the progesterone part if you are using another form of delivery, your GP should know that. Hopefully some1 will be along with. more info for you.
Do print off 'hints for husbands' for your partner.
'pessary chalk' - love it! You'll fit right in ;-).
Let us know how you get on, do make a list of concerns to discuss.
Thank you CLKD. I didn't know that I may not need the progesterone. I had wondered about the POP being necessary, but hadn't thought about it the other way.... Hopefully someone will know, as the GP I'm booked with is the same who prescribed me the muddle of meds. I spoke with a metal health nurse when I stopped the Sertraline and she said GP shouldn't have prescribed anti-depressants for hormone related anxiety anyway, should have waited for my bloods to come in first, and the one he prescribed me under the sell of helping with hot flushes wasn't one they would use for flushes anyway.
Hopefully we'll get it right eventually, before I end up completely crackers :D
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However: if some1 is depressed or if anxiety is overwhelming, there is no reason not to prescribe appropriate medications to get the lady settled. Then HRT can be discussed and considered as it can take months to sort out ...........
I would ask for a referral to an NHS dedicated Menopause Clinic as many GPs don't understand the impact of peri symptoms. Let us know how you get on.
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Hello Mona and welcome to the forum. I am so pleased you feel able to post and ask questions. That was very brave of you when you were feeling nervous.
I can relate to you being laughed at when you tried to talk to your GP. I had the same experience. I first realised I was in peri when I was 38 and the GP burst out laughing and said I have another 13 years to go. It is so sad how some GPs can be so dismissive.
It sounds to me like the ultrogestan is causing you to feel unwell. I know you are on the POP. You can actually take two Desogestrel as the progesterone part of HRT so maybe that would be a better option for you.
Like you, I have nobody I can talk about this with so it is great you have found the forum. You will find lots of support on here and you are no longer alone. The emotional side of peri is very challenging. I think it may improve for you when you find the right HRT as I suspect you are feeling so low due to the ultrogestan. Just a thought, if you wanted to keep on it then you may find it more tolerable to take vaginally.
I tried stopping the POP to see what would happen for myself and I regret it. I felt unwell and after a 3 month break I went back on it. If you wish to stop it then you will still need contraception so that is something to bare in mind.
Just to say, are you aware of vaginal atrophy because you can take localised oestrogen to help with that. That has been my worst peri symptom so I just thought I would mention it.
I think you did the right thing in stopping the sertraline and the nurse was right to say they should not have been prescribed. I am also unsure if that helps with hot flushes. I know Venlafaxine does.
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I started the meno journey @ 38 and finally went onto the Gel and the Utrogestan at 40. Have been on it ever since and nearly 60. I dont enjoy the Utrogestan part so I only use 100mg vaginally every other month, I just cannot tolerate it more often. I only use a low dose of 1 pump of gel and have regular bleeds and am due a gynae check up soon to see how my lining is looking. I also tried other options but this protocol seems to be the most "user friendly" & is considered bio identical. I hope you can maintain it perhaps try every other month but do see if you can get a scan of your uterus every other year or so just to see its working as I am not sure what dosage you are on. It can be very daunting but I am so greatful for the HRT or I would have by now am sure ended up with osteoporosis if not other issues from going through it so very young. All the best.
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Tnx for the update Cassie. It shows that as long as we have regular scans, once we find a regime that works, we should stick to it ;-)
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Hello Mona and welcome to the forum. I am so pleased you feel able to post and ask questions. That was very brave of you when you were feeling nervous.
I can relate to you being laughed at when you tried to talk to your GP. I had the same experience. I first realised I was in peri when I was 38 and the GP burst out laughing and said I have another 13 years to go. It is so sad how some GPs can be so dismissive.
It sounds to me like the ultrogestan is causing you to feel unwell. I know you are on the POP. You can actually take two Desogestrel as the progesterone part of HRT so maybe that would be a better option for you.
Like you, I have nobody I can talk about this with so it is great you have found the forum. You will find lots of support on here and you are no longer alone. The emotional side of peri is very challenging. I think it may improve for you when you find the right HRT as I suspect you are feeling so low due to the ultrogestan. Just a thought, if you wanted to keep on it then you may find it more tolerable to take vaginally.
I tried stopping the POP to see what would happen for myself and I regret it. I felt unwell and after a 3 month break I went back on it. If you wish to stop it then you will still need contraception so that is something to bare in mind.
Just to say, are you aware of vaginal atrophy because you can take localised oestrogen to help with that. That has been my worst peri symptom so I just thought I would mention it.
I think you did the right thing in stopping the sertraline and the nurse was right to say they should not have been prescribed. I am also unsure if that helps with hot flushes. I know Venlafaxine does.
Hi Flossieteacake
Thank you for your reply :)
Sorry you had such a hard time getting a diagnosis too. It's a shame that a disorder affecting at least half of the population isn't more known about isn't it. Hopefully we're getting there as it does seem like we've moved forwards since I got laughed out of surgery 2 years ago. I'm hearing about menopause groups and the such like more now. Maybe thats just because I'm living it now too though I guess.
I am aware of vaginal atrophy, I discovered that waaay before I started having any inkling about menopausal symptoms. I'd spotted things had gone, shall we say, a little grey down that way and it scared the poop out of me. Google led down many rabbit holes (had to be careful googling grey vaginas lol) but never found it was menopause related until more recently! That must have been a good 7-8 years ago when I first noticed that. When I began the HRT conversation this year with the doc I explained that down there had a no entry sign and had for a good few years, we discussed a localised oestrogen to relieve that symptom, and I ended up leaving with a prescription for an oestrogen gel for thigh application and utrogestan 200mg for vaginal use. I'm not sure how we ended up there, I don't know if the doctor really knows either, as I collected from pharmacy 3 months of oestrogen and 3 weeks of progesterone, so who knows lol!
I will have a word about menopause clinics as CLKD mentioned above too, as I do feel for the GP too really - He is only trained in general medicine, he isn't going to know the exact ins and outs of menopause if womens health wasn't one of his specialties. I will see tomorrow what he suggests as I really didn't like how I've felt the last few days.
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I started the meno journey @ 38 and finally went onto the Gel and the Utrogestan at 40. Have been on it ever since and nearly 60. I dont enjoy the Utrogestan part so I only use 100mg vaginally every other month, I just cannot tolerate it more often. I only use a low dose of 1 pump of gel and have regular bleeds and am due a gynae check up soon to see how my lining is looking. I also tried other options but this protocol seems to be the most "user friendly" & is considered bio identical. I hope you can maintain it perhaps try every other month but do see if you can get a scan of your uterus every other year or so just to see its working as I am not sure what dosage you are on. It can be very daunting but I am so greatful for the HRT or I would have by now am sure ended up with osteoporosis if not other issues from going through it so very young. All the best.
Thanks Cassie! I take the utrogestan vaginally already, but on 200mg for days 14-28. I think this time I managed day 16-25 but had to stop at day 26. Felt awful. I am going to speak to the GP about switching to the oral utrogestan as I understand that is a lower dose, then I could always use that vaginally if symptoms remain.... It was horrible though, felt like a train wreck! I too, like you am grateful for being able to start HRT as I do worry about the other implications for health with it starting young.
However: if some1 is depressed or if anxiety is overwhelming, there is no reason not to prescribe appropriate medications to get the lady settled. Then HRT can be discussed and considered as it can take months to sort out ...........
I would ask for a referral to an NHS dedicated Menopause Clinic as many GPs don't understand the impact of peri symptoms. Let us know how you get on.
Thanks CLKD, always good to have another perspective, perhaps the mental health state does need the help. Will see what is said tomorrow. Will certainly ask about menopause clinics, many thanks for this advice :)
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Hello Mona and welcome to the forum. I am so pleased you feel able to post and ask questions. That was very brave of you when you were feeling nervous.
I can relate to you being laughed at when you tried to talk to your GP. I had the same experience. I first realised I was in peri when I was 38 and the GP burst out laughing and said I have another 13 years to go. It is so sad how some GPs can be so dismissive.
It sounds to me like the ultrogestan is causing you to feel unwell. I know you are on the POP. You can actually take two Desogestrel as the progesterone part of HRT so maybe that would be a better option for you.
Like you, I have nobody I can talk about this with so it is great you have found the forum. You will find lots of support on here and you are no longer alone. The emotional side of peri is very challenging. I think it may improve for you when you find the right HRT as I suspect you are feeling so low due to the ultrogestan. Just a thought, if you wanted to keep on it then you may find it more tolerable to take vaginally.
I tried stopping the POP to see what would happen for myself and I regret it. I felt unwell and after a 3 month break I went back on it. If you wish to stop it then you will still need contraception so that is something to bare in mind.
Just to say, are you aware of vaginal atrophy because you can take localised oestrogen to help with that. That has been my worst peri symptom so I just thought I would mention it.
I think you did the right thing in stopping the sertraline and the nurse was right to say they should not have been prescribed. I am also unsure if that helps with hot flushes. I know Venlafaxine does.
Hi Flossieteacake
Thank you for your reply :)
Sorry you had such a hard time getting a diagnosis too. It's a shame that a disorder affecting at least half of the population isn't more known about isn't it. Hopefully we're getting there as it does seem like we've moved forwards since I got laughed out of surgery 2 years ago. I'm hearing about menopause groups and the such like more now. Maybe thats just because I'm living it now too though I guess.
I am aware of vaginal atrophy, I discovered that waaay before I started having any inkling about menopausal symptoms. I'd spotted things had gone, shall we say, a little grey down that way and it scared the poop out of me. Google led down many rabbit holes (had to be careful googling grey vaginas lol) but never found it was menopause related until more recently! That must have been a good 7-8 years ago when I first noticed that. When I began the HRT conversation this year with the doc I explained that down there had a no entry sign and had for a good few years, we discussed a localised oestrogen to relieve that symptom, and I ended up leaving with a prescription for an oestrogen gel for thigh application and utrogestan 200mg for vaginal use. I'm not sure how we ended up there, I don't know if the doctor really knows either, as I collected from pharmacy 3 months of oestrogen and 3 weeks of progesterone, so who knows lol!
I will have a word about menopause clinics as CLKD mentioned above too, as I do feel for the GP too really - He is only trained in general medicine, he isn't going to know the exact ins and outs of menopause if womens health wasn't one of his specialties. I will see tomorrow what he suggests as I really didn't like how I've felt the last few days.
Perhaps you could request Vagifem or Ovestin as they are going to be the best things for the vaginal atrophy. It is a great idea to ask to see a menopause clinic. I hope you appointment goes well.
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Perhaps you could request Vagifem or Ovestin as they are going to be the best things for the vaginal atrophy. It is a great idea to ask to see a menopause clinic. I hope you appointment goes well.
Thank you for the advice, I will certainly ask.
Just a too much information kind of question - do the vagifem or Ovestin leave you with that chalky residue feeling, like I said the utrogestan does, or is it more of a gel, and does that leave a residue? Only I am a little bit grossed out by utrogestan at the moment - Isn't being a woman fabulous fun ;D
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Perhaps you could request Vagifem or Ovestin as they are going to be the best things for the vaginal atrophy. It is a great idea to ask to see a menopause clinic. I hope you appointment goes well.
Thank you for the advice, I will certainly ask.
Just a too much information kind of question - do the vagifem or Ovestin leave you with that chalky residue feeling, like I said the utrogestan does, or is it more of a gel, and does that leave a residue? Only I am a little bit grossed out by utrogestan at the moment - Isn't being a woman fabulous fun ;D
Ovestin is a cream and does not leave a residue for me. You may find some comes out when you wipe after going to the bathroom.
Nothing is too much information on here so ask away. :)
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HI MM the Utrogestan 100mg is what I use vaginally for 12 days a month could not tolerate the 200mg the dosage is no lower whether you use it orally or vaginally.
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Thank you everyone for advice.
Doctor has halved my utrogestan to 100mg, but advised for daily use too as per post menopausal routine, as my bloods are showing so high on fsh. I might play with that a bit myself having just,had such a terrible time on it. He did mention a scan if I had any bleeds, which I haven't yet so hoping it'll stay that way., Also struggling to find a pharmacy to full my prescription anyway right now! Dr was all for me stopping the hrt and told me off for still using the oestrogen gel if I'm not taking the utrogestan, even though I did 200mg for 9 days and am on POP too. I had to put him right as it's not like I'm getting zero prog is it.
Crikey! Anyway, he said he'll see me again in a month and up the dosage of oestrogen too if I'm still suffering symptoms (brain fog, hot flushes, sleepless nights from night sweats and anxiety) as I'm only on a low dosage of that right now (0.5mg) . He's also seeking advice re menopause clinics and what to actually do with me as I'm apparently not a straightforward case and bloods appear to indicate post meno rather than peri.
He did also give me a prescription for vagifem, thanks to flossieteacake for the suggestion of some localised oestrogen. However, he's prescribed that for daily for 2 weeks, then twice a week after. I've read other ladies elsewhere on the forum stating their GP has done the same but it appears advice should be to continue daily to prevent further atrophy? This is getting so confusing.
Hoping I can find a pharmacy with some 100s of utro now though, I so do not want to go back to those 200s, they were vile!!
Thank you kind ladies for all your support and advice x
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Sounds like your appointment went well.
Although the vagifem leaflet suggests using it twice a week after the loading dose, many find that is not enough. I would use it daily until your symptoms improve then you can reduce it if you wish to.
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Hi - as Flossieteacake suggests ............ 4 me the loading for 2 weeks followed by every few nights with gaps in between was OK until symptoms niggled. When that happens I do a 5 night reload - 'ovestin' - and if I have the need2P I swallow Nurofen. It's a bit Trial and Error, this ::)
Well done on putting foot down with firm hand - this is a learning curve for your GP too ;) ::)
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Thanks both.
Yes, appointment was pretty good. He also extended my.sick note after my wobble at the weekend, so I'm relieved about that too. GP said he was impressed with my knowledge I've already picked up, told him where I got it from. He was the one to recommend this site to me and he was spot on. I've already learned so much from everyone here.
Thank you so much for your advice and tips. It's a learning curve for everyone involved isn't it, us, our GP's and our loved ones. We just have to all take care of each other and share the knowledge :)
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Yep. Do tell as many girls/women as you can about vaginal atrophy ;) Let us know how you get on [off to swipe a annoying stupid fly >:( ]
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Hi there, feel for ya so bad, I cried with ya. I'm from 37 now 44 on patches evorel sequi since 2021. My mental head was ape b4 the patches and my mental head is now going so stupid again now . I am all over the place and bloated to hell. Yet not weigh any difference. Tired mentally and physically. But have transverse myelitis as well and arthritis in hip thumb couple knuckle and now left elbow. Joys.
Totally get it. I talk to everyone but they don't understand my menopausal symptoms. Bleeding acting up too. Not tried the gel etc.
How ya getting on recently??
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Hi there sksj1
Sorry to hear you're having a hard time with it, and also having your additional issues. I had to Google transverse myelitis, but oh my! I do feel for you!
I too have started to suffer the bloating. Feels like every evening now I'm lying there with my lil tum poking out, rubbing it for dear life, convinced its gonna blow up at some point and it'll be messy when it does ;D
Symptoms are still all over the place but it doesn't help that I have joined the utrogestan shortage queues now.... Can't get 100s anywhere near me and found I can't chop the 200s I had in half as they're liquid inside! Found some pharmacists can be very rude about this shortage too... What's that about, it's not my fault! ;D
Trying to work out what to do while I wait for utro, if doctor was already freaking out about my prog intake, do I need to stop all the oestrogen while I wait for utro to restock. Feels soft tho stopping and starting hormones, doesn't seem like it'll help them settle! Anyway...... it is what it is isn't it :)
I'm finding such lovely people on this here forum though, I feel like I've found my people :D There is always someone around for a reassuring natter or for a little giggle. It feels like a little piece of sanity in a world that seems to have gone topsy turvy!
Thank you all of you :-*
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My word, my patches are so easy, slap on 2x a week off ya go. But sticky as heck.
Thank you I'm literally been doin that all day! Rub tum. Feel pregnant. Maybe even 7mths!
As I type been suffering dull aches so bad almost like period aches. But not. :-\ don't know what that's all about but now panic incase it's also ovarian C signs. Don't want to be hypochondriac tut.
But bit paranoid after having had CIN3 as well.
It's sure a pain. I'm wondering what happens next. And when blood stops.
Well to be blunt I'm virtually stopping it's barely even bloody and barely even linger 3days. Been irregular as well. Migraines came back for a bit. Crazy.
Hugs to ya tho. And hugs to all you reading up... Hellish some stories. And it's all just a sh :-Xt storm. Horrible. Can't wait for it to be over. Xx
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I’m so sorry that you’re going through this so early, on top of the GP dismissing your very obvious symptoms like that :’(. You’ve come to the right place I reckon, I’ve recently joined & everyone here is so so lovely, understanding & helpful.
Per sksj1 - a hellish horrible sh :-Xt storm that I can't wait to be over - that sums it up pretty well for me :)
“I'm apparently not a straightforward case and bloods appear to indicate post meno rather than peri.”
My gynaecologist told me that the hormone blood tests are normally all over the place & she reckons they’re not a very accurate way of telling what stage you’re at. I had a blood test done when I was perimenopause that showed very low estrogen & suggested I was post, and another done when I was post (hopefully - I’m 2.5mths away from confirming that) that suggested I was peri ???
“Can't get 100s anywhere near me and found I can't chop the 200s I had in half as they're liquid inside!”
When I was first diagnosed with perimenopause, my GP advised me to use the 200mg capsules as a pessary every second day for the relevant 14 days of my cycle (not sure why she didn’t prescribe the 100mg caps). It may be worth asking about/looking into if you can’t get ahold of the 100mg caps. N.b. I initially chickened out of HRT bc of the fear of the effect of progesterone on my existing depression (based on past experience with a very strong contraceptive) & I now can’t take it anyway bc of its affect on my uterine fibroids, so can’t say if that works.
“I wanted to talk to nobody, do nothing and just be left alone to sleep or cry”
This largely describes me (aside from finding the courage to post here, amongst these wonderful people, first time on a forum since peri started in 2015). I have major depression + menopause + inability to take HRT (bc of fibroids). I have just started a new antidepressant tho, that I’m hoping will help.
I don’t really have anyone to talk to about all this offline either, apart from my amazing gyno & even more amazing GP. I also come from an emotionally-stunted family. I can’t cope with talk therapy either bc I don’t know how to discuss my feelings. I also really don’t want to bring people down (sorry sorry if I am :-\)
Like you, I also have the most amazing partner, but I don’t want to burden him any more than I have. He has such a stressful job & he started seeing a psychologist bc of the hell I was going thru with peri (& I’m pretty sure long covid) earlier on. Oh, my bad memory just kicked in - I need to take a look at that page for ‘hints for husbands’ that CLKD mentioned *scuttles off to have a read*.
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It's Trial and Error plus symptoms that can be over whelming >:(
Group :hug: