Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Katherine on April 03, 2023, 08:27:15 PM
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Hi ladies,
You might remember I’ve posted twice on here about having breathing difficulties during the night which I think are caused by utrogestan.
Well in the last two nights it’s happened 3 times and I can only describe it as like someone has held a pillow over my face while I’m asleep and I wake up with a racing heart as if I’ve stopped breathing and it gradually comes back to normal over a few minutes. Like my breathing is suppressed.
I can’t go through it anymore and I think it could be really dangerous. I now think it could be because I take utrogestan orally very close to bed time and that it is causing inflammation. Maybe it’s coming up my tubes when I lie down. I’ve noticed it never happens after about 6 hours of taking it. So I am going to have a break from it for 2 days then start taking it 6 hours before bed and see if that helps. Does anyone have any thoughts or have had this experience?
If not I will have to try it vaginally. I am just worried that I won’t get the same protection if I take it that way. When you take it via the stomach you know it’s going into your bloodstream and around your body but if it’s in your vagina, how do you know it’s going to reach your womb? I just don’t understand. If anyone can explain how it works I would appreciate it.
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Oh no! I remember when this first happened. I am sorry it has returned and no wonder it has caused you so much worry. To feel you cannot breathe is so frightening.
I am sure somebody knowledgeable will reply about taking ultrogestan vaginally. All I know is many women take it this way and seem to do well on it.
I hope the break helps your breathing get back to how it was before.
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Thank you so much for your kind words Flossie. I had a better night last night without utrogestan. Only one mini episode but much milder than the usual. I’ll have another break today then try taking it straight after work tomorrow. I’ve also started on a preventer inhaler. X
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Thank you so much for your kind words Flossie. I had a better night last night without utrogestan. Only one mini episode but much milder than the usual. I’ll have another break today then try taking it straight after work tomorrow. I’ve also started on a preventer inhaler. X
That is a good idea. I find if I just miss one dose of my preventer inhaler I really feel it.
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Hi Katherine,
Sorry if this has been gone through before …I haven’t kept up with your previous problems with this I’m afraid.
Do you use a reliever inhaler normally/have asthma? Asthmas symptoms are not like what you are describing really (from my own experience).
Have you ever been tested for sleep apnoea?
Is it definitely happening only when you take the utrogestan?
I can definitely identify with the waking up with heart racing thing. I get that at certain times of the month. Often have vivid dreams/nightmares too…though I don’t think that’s what wakes me. I wake up with a start and can’t work out what’s wrong….realise heart is racing ….horrid. It’s definitely hormonal. Could it be anything like this? Do you get hot flushes that wake you at all?
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Hi Vanilla,
Thank you so much for replying. I get asthma but it's usual very specific triggers like high levels of sulphites in food and drink, a day of exposure to paint fumes, a smoky environment, etc. I use my reliever inhaler infrequently as I just avoid the triggers. I've just started using a preventer inhaler in the last two days but it didn't prevent the episodes.
You're right, it does seem to feel different from asthma. It's feels more like I've almost relaxed too much and my airways have closed and I've stopped breathing, like I'm under anaesthetic. It could be asthma though, but maybe just feel different because it happens in my sleep.
It only happens when I take utrogestan. I can go weeks without it happening but for some reason it's happened a few times in the last few nights. Maybe on those occasions I took it too close to food or too close to bedtime.
Sleep apnoea has crossed my mind too, I've never been tested for it. To be honest I am reluctant to go to my GP again about it because I am worried they will stop me having utrogestan (I really want to take something body identical) and I just want to trial taking it 6 hours before bed first, and also leave a bigger gap between taking it and eating. I know it's not a panic attack because I've had them in the past and it's totally different. I'm sure it's not due to hot flushes either.
So I'm just experimenting at the moment. It's difficult to know what to do but I'm just trying to tell myself I'm still alive so probably unlikely to die from it. I really appreciate any thoughts or feedback as it will help me find an answer. x
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You could use your phone to record you sleeping. I think you would know if you had sleep apnoea by the way your breathing sounds when asleep. I realise how boring it would be to listen to all the recording though. :)
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Flossie that's a great idea. So I can see if I actually stop breathing. If it happens, it happens quite soon after I've fallen asleep so I wouldn't need to watch much footage. I will try that. Thanks Flossie! x
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Flossie that's a great idea. So I can see if I actually stop breathing. If it happens, it happens quite soon after I've fallen asleep so I wouldn't need to watch much footage. I will try that. Thanks Flossie! x
You are welcome. :)
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I’ve been thinking about this today and it’s weird I’m the only one that has this issue with utrogestan. It does say on the medicine leaflet online something like there is a possibility of worsening of asthma.
Flossie do I remember rightly that you take it and have asthma too?
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I’ve been thinking about this today and it’s weird I’m the only one that has this issue with utrogestan. It does say on the medicine leaflet online something like there is a possibility of worsening of asthma.
Flossie do I remember rightly that you take it and have asthma too?
No. I could not tolerate it and stopped using it after a few days. When I tried the progesterone Norethisterone, I had trouble breathing. I always seem to have reactions to medications that are not common. ::)
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There’s very few things I can take without side effects too Flossie. I would consider the Mirena but I would worry about it being synthetic and of not being able to get it out quick if I had side effects. What form of progesterone did you take then Flossie? X
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I am still waiting to find one I can tolerate. I take one desogesteral but if I even try to add another half pill I become severally depressed. I have tried all the progesterone's and the menopause clinic do not know what to do with me.
Did you have any luck with filming yourself sleeping?
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hi katherine
i just wanted to say how sorry i am that your still having breathing problems
i take the utro orally now, however i used to take it vaginally with no problems. vaginally it bypasses digestive system so vaginally it has less side effects. i think it works a bit like a pessary.
in so much as it disolves.
i really hope you get sorted as your advice has really helped me xxx
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Hi Flossie, I didn’t film myself because I didn’t take utrogestan last night. I think I might have another day off it today as well. I had such a good nights sleep last night, no breathing problems, lovely deep breathing and slept soundly.
I know that won’t last though, it’s because there will still be a bit of utrogestan in my system and I will need to start taking it at some point. The utrogestan itself is really helpful, I think it’s just the dosage is wrong, but then we are told we need that amount to protect out womb. Maybe taking it after work and avoiding food for 2 hours either side will help.
I will film myself once I start taking it again Flossie, and report back. Thanks for being there for me xxx
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Hi discogirl,
Thank you for your message. I guess I’m just confused as to how it gets in the womb from the vagina. Because through the stomach it goes into the bloodstream and through the body but the fact the lining of the stomach is very different from the lining of the vagina which is not designed to absorb things for circulation through the body. I guess a bit will go through the cervix maybe.. I don’t know. So confusing. I am going to try different ways of taking it orally then if nothing works I will try vaginally.x
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Hi Flossie, I didn’t film myself because I didn’t take utrogestan last night. I think I might have another day off it today as well. I had such a good nights sleep last night, no breathing problems, lovely deep breathing and slept soundly.
I know that won’t last though, it’s because there will still be a bit of utrogestan in my system and I will need to start taking it at some point. The utrogestan itself is really helpful, I think it’s just the dosage is wrong, but then we are told we need that amount to protect out womb. Maybe taking it after work and avoiding food for 2 hours either side will help.
I will film myself once I start taking it again Flossie, and report back. Thanks for being there for me xxx
It is so good to hear you had a good sleep. I think having a good sleep makes a world of difference. I hope you can come up with a way of taking it that works for you.
You are so welcome. :)
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Thanks Flossie. :) x
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I am still waiting to find one I can tolerate. I take one desogesteral but if I even try to add another half pill I become severally depressed. I have tried all the progesterone's and the menopause clinic do not know what to do with me.
Did you have any luck with filming yourself sleeping?
I have just seen this post and am going through the same thing with progesterone. It makes me feel dreadful and I swear its caused my anxiety and panic attacks. I could never tolerate the pill, injection or mirena and have struggled with all progesterone including utragestran. I'm awaiting referral to the menapause clinic and really dont know what to do. What is your regime at present?
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So sorry to hear this Betsy. I am currently only taking one destrogestal which is known as the mini pill. This is not enough progesterone to protect my womb. I have a meno appointment coming up soon and will see what they have to say.
There is one option they suggested which is to not take progesterone and to have regular scans to check my womb lining. Perhaps this is something that would suit you.
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Yes I've heard this, I really cant tolerate the progesterone at all, seems to change how I react to stress and makes you feel awful. Hopefully get the appointment soon to look at options. It's strange how everyone is different.
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Yes I've heard this, I really cant tolerate the progesterone at all, seems to change how I react to stress and makes you feel awful. Hopefully get the appointment soon to look at options. It's strange how everyone is different.
Yes, we are all unique. I hope your appointment goes well.
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Hi discogirl,
Thank you for your message. I guess I’m just confused as to how it gets in the womb from the vagina. Because through the stomach it goes into the bloodstream and through the body but the fact the lining of the stomach is very different from the lining of the vagina which is not designed to absorb things for circulation through the body. I guess a bit will go through the cervix maybe.. I don’t know. So confusing. I am going to try different ways of taking it orally then if nothing works I will try vaginally.x
Hi Katherine,
Yes I get you.
A good person to ask would be Hurdity, I feel she would know xx
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I might Discogirl, thanks. I find the fact it’s not licensed for use that way in the UK a bit concerning. Mind you testosterone isn’t licensed for women either, despite it being one of our main hormones. I hope your keeping well by the way, are you sleeping ok?
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Hi ladies
Just an update, last night I hadn’t taken utrogestan for 4 nights yet I still had a moderate episode of the breathing difficulties. So I could be wrong about it being caused by utrogestan. I’ve been trying to think what else it could be, and I realised that last night and the last time it happened I had food right before bed ( cereal or toast) so maybe it really is acid reflux like a GP suggested. I’ve never felt any acid related burning at night but maybe it can happen without you feeling it. My mind started going into overdrive last night thinking maybe I have a tumour or something causing a blockage, so I really hope it’s food related as I can manage that easily. I will also film myself sleeping tonight to see if it’s sleep apnoea.
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I might Discogirl, thanks. I find the fact it’s not licensed for use that way in the UK a bit concerning. Mind you testosterone isn’t licensed for women either, despite it being one of our main hormones. I hope your keeping well by the way, are you sleeping ok?
Hi Katherine,
Well I am sleeping better than I was and I believe the utrogestan is helping.
I was talking to someone else on here and saying that for some women when going through menopause, their sleeping patterns do change.
Yes taking utrogstan vaginally is off licence in the UK, but not for Europe, where it is licenced for use that way.
I really hope things improve for you xxx
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Thanks Discogirl. I’m glad you are sleeping better, that’s great.
I’ve just read up on sleep apnoea and it sounds like what I’m experiencing so I will definitely film myself sleeping tonight. I will report back. X
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Thanks Discogirl. I’m glad you are sleeping better, that’s great.
I’ve just read up on sleep apnoea and it sounds like what I’m experiencing so I will definitely film myself sleeping tonight. I will report back. X
My friend has sleep apnoea and has a machine to use at night. Just thought I would tell you as if you do have it there is nothing to worry about. :)
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Thank you for the reassurance Flossie. :) It’s odd because I’m only 47, don’t smoke, hardly drink, only a few pounds overweight , quite a slim neck, no sleeping pills. Oh well I guess I will find out soon.
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Thank you for the reassurance Flossie. :) It’s odd because I’m only 47, don’t smoke, hardly drink, only a few pounds overweight , quite a slim neck, no sleeping pills. Oh well I guess I will find out soon.
You may not have it at all. I hope you do not.
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Another update- yesterday I took my utrogestan 7 hours before bed, didn’t eat within 2 hours of bed and had an anti acid tablet before bed, and filmed myself sleeping and nothing happened, no breathing episodes.
I suspect now that it could have been eating close to bedtime and stomach acid coming up, causing asthma, as the GP thought. I will continue avoiding eating close to bed and taking the anti acid tablet and gradually move the utrogestan towards 2 hours before bed and then I will find out what it is. I’m just so relieved it didn’t happen last night and that it could be fixable.
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This is great news! What a relief you have managed to work this out on your own too. :)
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Thanks Flossie :) I just watched some of the footage of me sleeping last night, I didn’t realise how much I move, I must have changed position about 8 times in 3 hours! I was hoping for some sleep talking or something but nothing that interesting. And I don’t snore it seems!
If the breathing issue turns out not to be caused by the utrogestan I should probably delete my threads about it, if that is possible, as I don’t want some women to be afraid of taking it because of my possible mistake.
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You could add an update to the title perhaps if you are unable to delete them.
It is interesting to learn you move a lot when you are asleep. I wonder if that makes you more tired when you wake up.
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Good point Flossie. My battery went flat after 3 hours or so I don’t know how much I move further along in my sleep. I wasn’t waking up so I guess it won’t have too much impact.
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Another update- yesterday I took my utrogestan 7 hours before bed, didn’t eat within 2 hours of bed and had an anti acid tablet before bed, and filmed myself sleeping and nothing happened, no breathing episodes.
I suspect now that it could have been eating close to bedtime and stomach acid coming up, causing asthma, as the GP thought. I will continue avoiding eating close to bed and taking the anti acid tablet and gradually move the utrogestan towards 2 hours before bed and then I will find out what it is. I’m just so relieved it didn’t happen last night and that it could be fixable.
Hi Katherine,
I'm so glad you seem to have found a solution xxx
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Thanks Discogirl :)
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Well I’m pretty certain that eating too close to bedtime or during the night is what’s been causing my breathing problems. I’ve been taking my utrogestan at 10pm and not eating within 2 hours of bedtime for a while and I’ve had no episodes. Then last night I couldnt sleep and felt anxious about 3am and ate a biscuit and some chocolate to make me feel better and I woke at 5 unable to breath properly. Once I sit up it passed after a few seconds so I definitely think it’s stomach acid coming up and causing asthma.
Has anyone else experienced this and does it mean I need any other treatment? I need to amend my original thread about this in some way to say utrogestan wasn’t the cause. Does anyone know how I can do this?
I wonder why I used to be able to eat before bed or during the night with no issues and since last November I can’t. Maybe the hrt has affected my muscles in that region or something or maybe it’s just an ageing thing. Oh well, I will miss my cheeky kitchen cupboard raids in the night!
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I don't get the breathing problems but have found since starting hrt that if I eat too close to bed time I get acidy. Either my tummy feels slightly burny, very mild though. Or I wake up with a nasty taste in my mouth. I have read that progrsterone in general can make this worse so perhaps it is somehow linked with the utrogestan too. What I mean is the utrogestan making you more prone to acid, and then the eating being the trigger. Have you tried eating amd then a swig of gaviscon advance? That usually makes it stay down long enough for me if I'm eating late for some reason, or just eating richer food in general.
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I think they say not to eat too close to taking utrogestan orally as I believe it increases the absorption. I think the idea of using utrogestan vaginally is because it is closer to where in needs to be (after all usually it is produced in the ovaries not ingested) and therefore it doesn't have to go through your liver etc to the same extent. You can have pessaries of utrogestan/cyclogest etc particularly used in IVF so it must have some effectiveness. I'm glad you have figured out the likely source of your problem however just thought I'd chip in and say if taking utrogestan and eating at bedtime it may increase the dose xx
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ClareMM do you mean that vaginally means you might absorb more because it is more concentrated as not processed through liver?
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Hi Penguin, That's interesting. I see what you mean. I will try not to eat during the night and if I do need to I will take some gaviscon straight after. Thank you for that. I had never thought of that.
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Hi Claire MM, Thanks for replying, I have been leaving a gap of at least 2 hours between my evening meal and utrogestan and that was working, it's happened because I ate in the middle of the night then went straight to sleep after. It was about 7 hours after I took utrogestan. I think there could be something in what penguin is saying, that maybe utrogestan makes you more likely to get excess stomach acid after eating.