Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Greengoddess on March 06, 2023, 05:44:23 PM
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Hello all
I’ve recently started a new HRT regime, the classic combo of 2 pumps Oestrogel daily and 2 Utrogestan tablets for 14 days per month.
I felt almost instantly better, much more my old self and physically good. Then I had the break from the Utrogestan and I crashed, my mood dive-bombed and I felt rotten. I always used to feel better when I was on the progesterone part of my old HRT (Femoston), so am I just one of those people that it actually agrees with? I have read nothing but negative comments about Utrogestan so am thinking I’m just weird in that I actually like it!
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Hia,
To answer your header question in one word...Nah!
I don't think many if any like it, to my mind the only good thing it does in a hrt setting is help prevent endo cancer.
Some ppl think it helps them sleep but it doesn't, it makes you feel lethargic and slows you down but it's actually estrogen that aids sleep.
TD
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Loads like utrogestan and loads hate it. Depends how your body reacts.
The negative comments, well you will find these with most progesterone types, including the Mirena coil. You would think it was some kind of death trap the way some women speak of it!!
I actually liked utrogestan, but it didn’t control my bleeding on oestrogen, hence why I had a coil fitted.
Utrogestan can aid sleep hugely, but not for all. If it was oestrogen only which aided sleep, then all of us sleep deprived folk who are on hrt world sleep peacefully?
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Hi Greengoddess
Like you, I'm doing well on utrogestan. It definitely has a positive effect on the amount of sleep I get now. The only negative for me (if it is a negative!) are the vivid dreams I have :o
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I don’t like or dislike it….I know I have to take it x
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Let me put it this way, I think there are much better, more tolerated forms of body identical progesterone out there.
I can't stand Utrogestan to the point I can never take it again and it's worth noting, you don't have to be progesterone intolerant to not get on with it. In my case, it causes massive hormonal imbalance resulting in migraines.
I think the root of the high level of Utrogestan intolerance is in the 100mg dose. I think it's too much in one hit for most women.
I much prefer transdermal or buccal forms of progesterone.
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I find it fine but it took a while to get used to it. I use it 12 nights a month vaginally and find it helps my sleep.
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Took me the best part of six months to finally get on with Utrogestan but I am now glad I stuck with it.
The main initial side effect for me was the exhaustion, I felt like a zombie whilst on it.
However this eventually eased and I now actually love this part of my regime. I feel calmer and I sleep well for the most part.
So yes, its suits me and I am happy on it but it took a good spell for me to get to this point.
Ali x
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Hello Greengoddess
As you can see there are many different reactions to Utrogestan!
I have used it in the past and I honestly couldn't tell if it helped or not however I only ever took it with oestrogen so I didn't have the benefit of seeing what Utrogestan was like on its own.
It seems that you just have to try it to find out how you react. I now use Cyclogest pessaries on alternate nights and I don't have any problems so perhaps this is an option for you.
Take care.
K.
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I get on with utrogestan but only if taken vaginally. Also, I’m taking a break from the oestrogen part of my regime due to uncontrollable fluid retention. It isn’t the only time I’ve gone lone soldier with utrogestan and i do find it addresses the hot flushes for the most part. Only thing I’d say is that I agree that the 100mg dose is far too much for me. Taking it every other day atm but thinking of reducing to every 3 days again - just depends if it’ll be enough without the oestrogen.
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Let me put it this way, I think there are much better, more tolerated forms of body identical progesterone out there.
I can't stand Utrogestan to the point I can never take it again and it's worth noting, you don't have to be progesterone intolerant to not get on with it. In my case, it causes massive hormonal imbalance resulting in migraines.
I think the root of the high level of Utrogestan intolerance is in the 100mg dose. I think it's too much in one hit for most women.
I much prefer transdermal or buccal forms of progesterone.
Hi, Mary,
I have the transdermal biovea progesterone and I like it (while I would call some synthetic progs a form of euthanasia), what are the other buccal or transdermal progesterones?
Poppytoast - how do you know the Biovea is enough? Have your blood levels been tested on it? I have the Biovea DHEA cream, which I might take in place of oestrogen. Interested to hear about the progesterone version… x
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I take it vaginally about 12 days a month- (for about 3 years now) no way can I do more than that. Some months I have very few side effects- but always mild cramping and other months I get massive amounts of bloating and cramps for the entire time- feels like my womb is being scraped out. When that happens I have to stop it early as I feel unbearably uncomfortable.
I had the same pain when I had the mirena.
It does nothing for my sleep.
I got on better with norithisterone tbh.
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No. If they did It in a half dose (50) and you could take a every other night it might be bearable x
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I wonder whether using micro scales you could pierce the casing with a pin and then squeeze out the same out onto the micro scales every day and just take the pill minus the bit you removed?
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I take utrogestan as part of a sequi regime with Oestrogel for days 15-28. I don't have any problems with it other than it seems to affect my digestion giving me lots of gurgling and very loose movements in the mornings which I can cope with.
I have tried twice to move to a conti regime (due to my age) but by week 3 I have really bad leg cramps, aching, bloating and the worst symptom is very swollen and sore boobs. I am putting this down to the fact that I am still peri-menopausal and my body is not ready to go to a conti regime. But who knows?
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poppytoast, as far as I know, buccal progesterone is only available at compounding clinics. I buy my progesterone gel in Spain but it's more or less the same as the Biovea cream.
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I don't need to take it as I have no womb, but I started taking it five weeks ago to help with sleep and maybe to add a bit of balance to my oestrogel and testim. I knew to expect a rough ride at first but wanted to give it a fighting chance to work. The first couple of weeks I got hot in the middle of the night so switched to taking one of my pumps of oestrogel at night time to counteract this, which did the job. The daytime tiredness I am glad to say has now started to ease these last few days and my sleep is much improved. And.... I feel bouncy yet calm too. So I am glad I carried on despite the initial difficulties. It's so easy to give up on something too quickly and then never know whether it would have worked or not. I have been guilty of this so many times and am starting to finally learn not to have a knee jerk reaction..
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
Hurdity - I personally have found that progesterone is about far more than protecting the endometrium. Without oestrogen, it alone controls entirely my vasomotor symptoms. I can’t understand why official medical research is skewed towards the belief that progesterone serves one or two purposes only! Considering the hormonal biochemical pathways, progesterone is about more than protecting the womb lining! It’s not protecting my joints though - which is unfortunately why I am experimenting with ways to fulfil the ‘oestrogen’ part of my HRT regime.
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I take the same dose as for endometrial protection. And yes I think it does more than protect the womb. The point I was trying to make maybe badly was that I could easily have knocked it on the head because I did feel quite shitty the first three/ four weeks. The groggy head fog stuff all of that. But... It cleared and now I feel really well. And yes, balanced. Lots of women in surgical meno are finding the same. That without progesterone they just don't feel quite right. And of course the flip side is there are as many that are quite happy to do without it. I think what continually surprises me is just how different we all are. That is why I think it's so difficult achieving balance. We do what suits one woman, doesn't suit us, then try something else that suits another and so it goes on.
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
Hurdity - I personally have found that progesterone is about far more than protecting the endometrium. Without oestrogen, it alone controls entirely my vasomotor symptoms. I can’t understand why official medical research is skewed towards the belief that progesterone serves one or two purposes only! Considering the hormonal biochemical pathways, progesterone is about more than protecting the womb lining! It’s not protecting my joints though - which is unfortunately why I am experimenting with ways to fulfil the ‘oestrogen’ part of my HRT regime.
Furyan, I agree with you, progesterone does much more than just protect the womb.
It's worth remembering that progesterone tanks before oestrogen in perimenopause and this is when women first start to experience symptoms like insomnia and anxiety which are helped by the calming effects of progesterone. In my case, it's when my silent migraines first kicked off.
I think we need both oestrogen and progesterone and by that I mean body identical progesterone at a tolerable dose, not the synthetic variety.
Obviously it's a different matter for women who are progesterone intolerant.
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
Hurdity - I personally have found that progesterone is about far more than protecting the endometrium. Without oestrogen, it alone controls entirely my vasomotor symptoms. I can’t understand why official medical research is skewed towards the belief that progesterone serves one or two purposes only! Considering the hormonal biochemical pathways, progesterone is about more than protecting the womb lining! It’s not protecting my joints though - which is unfortunately why I am experimenting with ways to fulfil the ‘oestrogen’ part of my HRT regime.
Hi - medical research isn't about belief though - it is about evidence from trials. and the use of oestrogen primarily as part of HRT is based on such trials. As I understand it research showed the a FEW women - very small percentage, found that progesterone along helped their menopausal symptoms (and I think this would be early in menopause before oestrogen really declines post-menopause) - but if there is any recent research to the contrary, beyond anecdotal evidence, I would be very interested to read it - hence my request, because I haven't looked stuff up recently...In very large doses ie used as a drug I think there some is evidence for this - but that is not what is being discussed.
Progesterone is produced during the menstrual cycle in large amounts solely to prepare for pregnancy, but only needed in large quantities as part of HRT to protect the womb lining. We produce small amounts throughout our lives as part of our normal metabolic processes, as do men.
I'm glad it has helped you.
Hurdity x
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
Hurdity - I personally have found that progesterone is about far more than protecting the endometrium. Without oestrogen, it alone controls entirely my vasomotor symptoms. I can’t understand why official medical research is skewed towards the belief that progesterone serves one or two purposes only! Considering the hormonal biochemical pathways, progesterone is about more than protecting the womb lining! It’s not protecting my joints though - which is unfortunately why I am experimenting with ways to fulfil the ‘oestrogen’ part of my HRT regime.
Hi - medical research isn't about belief though - it is about evidence from trials. and the use of oestrogen primarily as part of HRT is based on such trials. As I understand it research showed the a FEW women - very small percentage, found that progesterone along helped their menopausal symptoms (and I think this would be early in menopause before oestrogen really declines post-menopause) - but if there is any recent research to the contrary, beyond anecdotal evidence, I would be very interested to read it - hence my request, because I haven't looked stuff up recently...In very large doses ie used as a drug I think there some is evidence for this - but that is not what is being discussed.
Progesterone is produced during the menstrual cycle in large amounts solely to prepare for pregnancy, but only needed in large quantities as part of HRT to protect the womb lining. We produce small amounts throughout our lives as part of our normal metabolic processes, as do men.
I'm glad it has helped you.
Hurdity x
Hurdity - Sorry I don’t have the type of research you’re referring to. Maybe ‘belief’ wasn’t the correct word to use but my view in this respect comes from sources other than ‘funded’ research. I prefer to draw from various sources to get as balanced understanding as I can, as they are all a valid part of this puzzle called Menopause! e.g. funded research, clinical evidence from experienced professionals, medical writers, speaking with other women etc. As long as we focus on people’s lived experience this is evidence enough for me about progesterone - and I say this coming from an ‘evidence-based’ profession myself. If I come across the type of information you mentioned, I will share it here. Just bearing in mind that all are subject to flaws.
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Progesterone is only needed to balance oestrogen as part of HRT, in order to protect the womb, though a few women like it in small doses due to its sedative effect, and this is harmless as I understand. Unfortunately those of us who do need it for endometrial protection need to take it in large doses - because it is very unstable in the body so needs to be constantly replenished, and to ensure sufficient gets to the womb where it is needed. (When it is produced naturally in the body much smaller amounts are produced in pulses, but much more frequently....The side effects as a consequence of this (the large doses needed) are too great for many of us but we grit our teeth and persevere!
Glad to hear your sleep has improved - for many of us - the sedative effect is not calming - leading to grogginess, fatigue, head fog and sometimes worse. I have vivid dreams while taking it and it irritates my bladder at night as well as the vaginal area....
Hurdity x
Hurdity - I personally have found that progesterone is about far more than protecting the endometrium. Without oestrogen, it alone controls entirely my vasomotor symptoms. I can’t understand why official medical research is skewed towards the belief that progesterone serves one or two purposes only! Considering the hormonal biochemical pathways, progesterone is about more than protecting the womb lining! It’s not protecting my joints though - which is unfortunately why I am experimenting with ways to fulfil the ‘oestrogen’ part of my HRT regime.
Furyan, I agree with you, progesterone does much more than just protect the womb.
It's worth remembering that progesterone tanks before oestrogen in perimenopause and this is when women first start to experience symptoms like insomnia and anxiety which are helped by the calming effects of progesterone. In my case, it's when my silent migraines first kicked off.
I think we need both oestrogen and progesterone and by that I mean body identical progesterone at a tolerable dose, not the synthetic variety.
Obviously it's a different matter for women who are progesterone intolerant.
Hi Mary G - absolutely agree that we need both these hormones (and more) albeit in different amounts to suit each individual. Utrogestan is like marmite from what I can see - women either love it or hate it or anywhere between! I suspect utro might be tolerable to more women if there was more flexibility to play with the dosing a bit… from my experience anyway.