Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: zen on February 28, 2023, 08:07:51 PM
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Hi I am 60 and am on HRT, 100 evorel patch, some testosterone and lutigest progesteron. For about 3 weeks ish of the month I am relatively 'ok' and then I get a few days of suicidally low mood with agitation. Am at a all time low at the mo (been crying for days on end). I have been getting bleeds with the HRT (which has been investigated) which seem to correlate with the very low mood sometimes. It's like I am still having some sort of cycles although my periods finished about 13 years ago. I don't get highs or anything so I am pretty sure I am not biopolar or anything.
I do have CFS/ME and thyroid problems and see a menopause specialist but she just suggests upping the evorel. I have a lot of stress in my life too with an elderly father etc and am very isolated and restricted because of the CFS which doesn't help.
Any suggestions as I can't go on like this. Has anyone else had this problem? I have tried lots of anti-depressants which don't work. Many thanks. x
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Hello Zen I really am sorry to hear of how you are feeling. Have you told anybody you are feeling suicidal? I suspect it may be the progesterone causing you to feel this way as it often seems to cause this symptom. You cannot go on like this and we are going to support you through this. Is it possible to talk to your GP tomorrow as feeling suicidal is very urgent and you must not keep this to yourself or just try to cope alone.
I do not know how often lutigest it taken but if you are meant to take it tonight then I would skip it until you have spoken to your GP.
You say you have tried antidepressants. Did you try this after taking HRT as a result of that making you feel depressed or is this something you have tried in the past for depression?
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Hi Flossieteacake
Thank you so much for your reply. I have told my friends I am feeling sucicidal and will phone my GP first thing tomorrow. I am feeling desperate and scared as I am on my own. I have taken some diazepam but am still very agitated. I haven't been able to tolerate progestorone at all in the past. I have been taking lutigest every alternative night for a couple of years and I thought I could tolerate it but maybe that is not the case. Before the menopause and underactive thyroid diagnosis I took an antidepressant which work well as I got a bout of depression after having ME for seven years. Since the menopause and underactive thyroid diagnosis I have had an awful time moodwise generally (14 years now) Despite seeing a couple of menopause specialists and different endocrinologists no one has got to the bottom of it and no anti-depressant I have taken since then has worked. I can't go on like this-there must be an answer. Thanks for listening. x
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Hi Flossieteacake
Thank you so much for your reply. I have told my friends I am feeling sucicidal and will phone my GP first thing tomorrow. I am feeling desperate and scared as I am on my own. I have taken some diazepam but am still very agitated. I haven't been able to tolerate progestorone at all in the past. I have been taking lutigest every alternative night for a couple of years and I thought I could tolerate it but maybe that is not the case. Before the menopause and underactive thyroid diagnosis I took an antidepressant which work well as I got a bout of depression after having ME for seven years. Since the menopause and underactive thyroid diagnosis I have had an awful time moodwise generally (14 years now) Despite seeing a couple of menopause specialists and different endocrinologists no one has got to the bottom of it and no anti-depressant I have taken since then has worked. I can't go on like this-there must be an answer. Thanks for listening. x
How are you feeling today? I am glad you have told your friends how you feel.
I wonder if you would find therapy helpful. It sounds like you have been through such a lot and talking things through may help to make sense of it all for you.
With not being able to tolerate progesterone, some menopause clinics suggest estrogen alone and regular scans to monitor the womb lining. Perhaps that would work for you.
Please keep posting. You are not alone.
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Thanks again Flossiecupcake. I am feeling just the same and I spoke to my GP surgery and a doctor is going to phone me back. I have had some counselling over the years but nothing intensive. I think I will have to look into that. I have had a huge amount to cope with over the years becoming ill with ME/CFS at 31 and loosing everthing career, ability to exercise, social life etc and have had lots of other stresses over the years and am now being mostly housebound. My meno clinic did mention the possibility of estrogen only with yearly scans as a last resort. Thanks again.
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Thanks again Flossiecupcake. I am feeling just the same and I spoke to my GP surgery and a doctor is going to phone me back. I have had some counselling over the years but nothing intensive. I think I will have to look into that. I have had a huge amount to cope with over the years becoming ill with ME/CFS at 31 and loosing everthing career, ability to exercise, social life etc and have had lots of other stresses over the years and am now being mostly housebound. My meno clinic did mention the possibility of estrogen only with yearly scans as a last resort. Thanks again.
I have found more intense therapy to be more helpful. I have had a lot of therapy over the years as I needed several bouts. It helped me a lot.
I find it sad you were not offered therapy after getting your diagnosis but I know they do not do that as my friend has the same diagnosis and was not offered therapy.
It is lovely you have friends you can talk to despite being housebound. I hope the Dr calls you soon.
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I'm sorry you feel so bad. Might be worth discussing long cycle sequi with your meno specialist? I get fatigue on utro so take it for 12 days per 6 week cycle which gives me more 'good' time. The drawback is that you'll get a bleed and the dose may be higher but I prefer it this way.
If you try the oestrogen only route what happens when the lining gets thick?
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Hello Zen
Just to say I really hope you are able to talk to the doctor frankly and get some help. Mental health issues like this (whatever they are caused by, yours does sound hormonal to me as it’s so cyclic) are the pits. Absolute worst. You have my full sympathy.
I would also second counselling. I have had several lots as I am prone to anxiety/depression and find it extremely useful. If you get your name on the waiting list, in the meantime there are lots of free CBT resources online which you could start having a go at. Might give you a little relief while you wait. At least therapy of some sort can help you ride out the bad weeks while you are trying to get the root cause sorted.
Hugs
Vanilla
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PS my last lot of CBT was all done online which was excellent actually so your health and mobility problems shouldn’t be a barrier in accessing help.
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PPS you sound like a very strong person. But even strong people need to lean on others sometimes (she says, trying to do that myself no easy matter). Moan away and get support from this board. X
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Hello Zen,
I am sorry you are having such an awful time. I had cyclical mood swings all through my periods such were very much heightened as peri menopause kicked in. I am now on a mirena coil as utrogestan did not suit me, now thankful has settled down, this has evened things out a bit for me.
Prior to going into hrt I did a course of CBT via my gp surgery and this did help me with many problems.
I am so glad you have good friends to talk with, so vital.
More experienced people that I are here on this forum to offer valuable advice. Please ensure your gp is aware of just how bad you feel.
I just wanted to say hello to you
Hugs to all
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Hi Zen, I have sent you a PM. I hope that is OK.
JP x
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Hi Thank you so much for your very kind replies. I did speak to my GP who said there wasn't much she could do as I don't respond to anti-depressants and my latest estrodial test came back at 329 which she said was good.(?) She is very sympathetic about my ME though-I feel like I've had flu for 29 years! She did say I could phone the Mental health quick team who I have an appointment to speak too tomorrow afternoon. I really do think that my hormones are playing a big part in all since it is so cyclical. I have other stresses too a my lovely 91 year old Dad has cancer and I am not well enough to see him much :'(. Although I have friends I do spent an awful lot of time on my own which doesn't help. I will try and seek some intensive counselling/therapy. I am so glad some of you have found some relief. Thanks again. Hugs. x
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Hi Thank you so much for your very kind replies. I did speak to my GP who said there wasn't much she could do as I don't respond to anti-depressants and my latest estrodial test came back at 329 which she said was good.(?) She is very sympathetic about my ME though-I feel like I've had flu for 29 years! She did say I could phone the Mental health quick team who I have an appointment to speak too tomorrow afternoon. I really do think that my hormones are playing a big part in all since it is so cyclical. I have other stresses too a my lovely 91 year old Dad has cancer and I am not well enough to see him much :'(. Although I have friends I do spent an awful lot of time on my own which doesn't help. I will try and seek some intensive counselling/therapy. I am so glad some of you have found some relief. Thanks again. Hugs. x
It really is hard to hear you do not respond to antidepressants. I can imagine that phone call has left you feeling a bit flat. Is it possible you have Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder?
I am so sorry to hear about your Dad. It is hard not being able to visit him.
Good luck with the Mental Health team tomorrow. Try to be as honest as possible with them so they ensure you get the right support.
I too am housebound and I understand how isolating it can be.
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Hi Flossieteacake Thank you so much again for your reply. I am so sorry you are housebound - it is very isolating. I am lucky I can get out rarely for a tiny bit.
My periods stopped about 14 years ago so I guess I can't have PDD but looking at the description it feels like that.
Thanks I will be honest with the mental health team. I'm so glad that therapy has helped you a lot as you are in a very challenging position too by the sound of it.
Many thanks again for your kindness in taking the time to reply. x
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Hi Flossieteacake Thank you so much again for your reply. I am so sorry you are housebound - it is very isolating. I am lucky I can get out rarely for a tiny bit.
My periods stopped about 14 years ago so I guess I can't have PDD but looking at the description it feels like that.
Thanks I will be honest with the mental health team. I'm so glad that therapy has helped you a lot as you are in a very challenging position too by the sound of it.
Many thanks again for your kindness in taking the time to reply. x
You are most welcome. :)
Ah I see. So it may not be PDD then but something else hormonal. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of this now that you are going to speak to the mental health team and they will get you some support.
Thank you. Please feel free to post as much as you like to.
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Hi Flossieteacakes
Thanks very much again for your reply. The mental health nurse was suggesting I get an occupational therapist to structure my days better, do more things I enjoy etc, we talked about animal therapy and doing a tiny bit of voluntary work, better pacing etc.
Some of that might help my mood generally but I'm not sure it really addressed my severe big dips in mood/agitation. She said to phone a helpline a helpline for that......
Thanks again. x
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Hi Flossieteacakes
Thanks very much again for your reply. The mental health nurse was suggesting I get an occupational therapist to structure my days better, do more things I enjoy etc, we talked about animal therapy and doing a tiny bit of voluntary work, better pacing etc.
Some of that might help my mood generally but I'm not sure it really addressed my severe big dips in mood/agitation. She said to phone a helpline a helpline for that......
Thanks again. x
I am pleased to get an update from you. How do you feel with the suggestions you were given? Voluntary work can be very difficult when you have ME/CFS.
I am a bit suprised you were not offered any therapy or even the option to speak to a psychiatrist. Perhaps the Mental Health nurse did not think that was helpful.
How do you feel after your call?
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Hi Flossieteacake
Thanks very much again for your reply. I haven't been on the forum for a few days as I've been so exhausted. Yes I'm not sure how useful seeing the mental health nurse was. I have tried voluntary work before and I struggled with it and my health is much worse now. She also suggested seeing an occupational therapist but that does not really address my low mood and then further dips in mood which are cyclical. My latest estrodail test was 327 which I don't know how significant that is. I think I posted the level before but may not have got it right. I am sure it is hormonal as I feel my hormones are all over the place as I am getting frequent light bleeds on HRT which I shouldn't be getting but it has been investigated.
Thanks again x
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Hi Flossieteacake
Thanks very much again for your reply. I haven't been on the forum for a few days as I've been so exhausted. Yes I'm not sure how useful seeing the mental health nurse was. I have tried voluntary work before and I struggled with it and my health is much worse now. She also suggested seeing an occupational therapist but that does not really address my low mood and then further dips in mood which are cyclical. My latest estrodail test was 327 which I don't know how significant that is. I think I posted the level before but may not have got it right. I am sure it is hormonal as I feel my hormones are all over the place as I am getting frequent light bleeds on HRT which I shouldn't be getting but it has been investigated.
Thanks again x
Never worry about not being able to post, you must rest when you are fatigued. I notice MH team are obsessed with getting people into voluntary work and often do not even consider if this is a realistic option for the person.
I am unsure about anything to do with readings and blood tests but hopefully somebody else will post who knows or you could even start a new thread to ask about that.
Is therapy something you feel would be helpful?
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PS my last lot of CBT was all done online which was excellent actually so your health and mobility problems shouldn’t be a barrier in accessing help.
Please can I ask which website you used for CBT as I need to look at this too x
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Hi Flossieteacake
Thanks very much again for your reply. I haven't been on the forum for a few days as I've been so exhausted. Yes I'm not sure how useful seeing the mental health nurse was. I have tried voluntary work before and I struggled with it and my health is much worse now. She also suggested seeing an occupational therapist but that does not really address my low mood and then further dips in mood which are cyclical. My latest estrodail test was 327 which I don't know how significant that is. I think I posted the level before but may not have got it right. I am sure it is hormonal as I feel my hormones are all over the place as I am getting frequent light bleeds on HRT which I shouldn't be getting but it has been investigated.
Thanks again x
I really feel for you Zen, it'd awful. I went to my gp today as I have een crying hysterically for days now. I gave her a list of all my symptoms and she said it's not hormonal, it's depression. So I was given antidepressants and advised to have therapy.
I had a blood test and it showed my estrogen levels were normal whilst being on hrt but I am convinced it is hormonal.
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Hi Flossieteacake and Mollymoo
Thanks very much for your replies. I've been feeling pretty low and very exhausted so have not been on this forum for bit.
Yes voluntary work is totally unrealistic for me as with my ME/CFS as I can't leave the house often. I have had counselling over the years in the past but not really intensive therapy which I think may be useful.
I am so sorry Mollymoo that you are having such a hard time too. I so feel for you too. Hugs and love. I like you think my depression is related to hormones mostly although obviously the ME/CFS/thyroid problems don't help.... Are you on you own Mollymo or do you have some support? Did you get any CBT info? I didn't find it great for me but it has helped other people so I can hopefully send you a private message with CBT info if I can work out how to do that! If not feel free to send me a private message and I'll reply.
Thanks again x
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Hi Flossieteacake and Mollymoo
Thanks very much for your replies. I've been feeling pretty low and very exhausted so have not been on this forum for bit.
Yes voluntary work is totally unrealistic for me as with my ME/CFS as I can't leave the house often. I have had counselling over the years in the past but not really intensive therapy which I think may be useful.
I am so sorry Mollymoo that you are having such a hard time too. I so feel for you too. Hugs and love. I like you think my depression is related to hormones mostly although obviously the ME/CFS/thyroid problems don't help.... Are you on you own Mollymo or do you have some support? Did you get any CBT info? I didn't find it great for me but it has helped other people so I can hopefully send you a private message with CBT info if I can work out how to do that! If not feel free to send me a private message and I'll reply.
Thanks again x
I am so sorry you have been feeling so low, Zen. It is just a horrible feeling. CBT is not going to be in-depth enough for you so I think it would be a very good idea to try something more tailored. I found cognitive analytic therapy to me the best one for me.
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Hi Molly moo, sorry I’ve only just seen this. My therapy was online as in video link to therapist. There are lots of self help CBT courses around while you wait for a referral (you can refer yourself without asking your GP by the way). Every Mind Matters is a useful place to start.