Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Champers101 on January 09, 2023, 02:35:32 PM
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Hello from an itchy newbie! Please help if you can as I’m not sure how I can go on not even knowing what’s causing this itch/ burning. It’s hard to concentrate on anything else on a bad day. Have read loads of posts on here but not sure if mine matches any of them properly.
It all started the day I got back from holiday in Sep. Suddenly felt a strong and persistent prickly itch on both outer labia. Was alarmed and put on a gentle steroid cream to no avail. Ended up going to a gynae who said she couldn’t see anything wrong and took a swab, which came back as thrush. Eureka! Thought all my troubles were over.
Took the canesten treatment and felt better for a few days but it came back. Another swab at the GP came back with thrush, but only faint growth. Am now on a weekly thrush treatment for 6ms. But any improvement from canesten has gone. And the symptoms have only got worse. Sometimes it’s awful prickly itching all over the outer labia. Sometimes it’s the same around the back package (skin on the sides) - then sometimes it’s an unbearable itch and/ or burning that moves around the outer labia. Sometimes at the top, sometimes the middle, and sometimes low down, either on or around the perineum. Sometimes all at once :'(
I’m 49 and have been on systemic HRT for a year now. Have been on ovestin cream for about 4 wks now - did the 2 week loading dose internally but have now started putting some on the external lips. There’s no internal itching, although sometimes it’s on the inner sides of the outer labia. The skin does feel quite dry to the touch. No bladder issues at all.
So I’m not sure it fits with VA, eczema (no redness I can see), dermatitis or anything else. Sometimes I wonder how much I bring on through stress as the more I concentrate on it the more it flares and burns. Especially in the middle of the night! It waxes and wanes (some days hardly there at all) - but I haven’t found a link to why. Don’t use shower gel and only use cotton underwear.
This last week has been particularly bad and it’s led to a vicious cycle of me becoming very despairing, which makes the symptoms worse. I have an appt to see another gynae soon but am losing hope.
Vagisil and Lanacane can help sometimes -and I’ve tried other creams like YES but nothing consistently as they don’t have any immediate effect! I put all my hopes into Ovestin but feel that if it was going to work it would have done so by now.
Apologies for the rant/ saga. Any help at all would be much appreciated. Thank you!
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Hello Champers and welcome. I am so sorry to hear of the awful itching and prickling you have. I have had it to and it really is a total nightmare. It is great you have Ovestin as I suspect your itching is caused by lack of oestrogen. I know the leaflet says to use twice a week after the loading dose but this is often not enough and many members use it daily. I have used Ovestin every single day for two years and I will never reduce it. I would carry on using it daily and you can also apply it to the outer area like you have been doing. With applying it to the outer area it can help to mix it with Yes. You can also apply it to the back passage where it is itching.
Yes and Sylk are great vaginal moisturisers and can be used as often as needed.
VA can be different for each of us. Like you, I get the prickling and itching sensation. It makes me want to scream. When you say you do not use shower gel, I just want to let you know that washing in water alone causes more drying. I was advised to apply emollient to the vulva, wash it off in the shower and then reapply some to form a barrier. I thought washing in water alone would be gentle but it is too harsh.
You have used Ovestin for one month and this is very early. It can take a while to see any improvements so please hang on in there.
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Caneston made me burn :o
I had thrush twice: after stopping The Pill and again many years later after sudden surgical intervention. I have found that eating and apply 'live' yoghurt helpful as it cleanses the digestive tract from the top.
Get yourself some vaginal atrophy treatment, you don't need an appt or exam by a GP. Many find 'vagifem' internally with 'ovestin' or other moisturisers on the outer labia helps a lot.
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I agree with all Flossieteacake has to say, but would just like to add something else. Stress can certainly make you feel more sore. VA and other problems in the genitourinary area can lead to a guarding reaction whereby you tighten the pelvic floor. This in itself can result in vulval pain, soreness and discomfort. A women's health physiotherapist could assess your pelvic floor for hypertonicity and prescribe techniques to relax it. We'll worth considering while you wait for improvement from the local oestrogen treatment.
JP x
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Your symptoms do sound like VA and it’s always made worse by being stressed. You have been examined so you should feel assured and get started on the treatment.
You might need Vagifem, then Ovestin to use on the outside and a moisturiser, treatment can be trial and error but you will soon find the regime that works for you, eventually!
It can take months for the tissues to plump up, have you had a look down there, are you starting to disappear. It came as a shock to me when I looked down to see what the heck was going on but with a year of treatment I now look like I used to, all plumped up with no horrible VA symptoms.
Can't express enough Flossieteacake's advice regarding washing, a very important part of your new regime. Good luck :)
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It waxes and wanes (some days hardly there at all) - but I haven’t found a link to why. Don’t use shower gel and only use cotton underwear.
You could try cutting out coffee, tea, spicy food, tomatoes to avoid tannins and acids coming out in urine and irritating.
I used vagifem for a long time and it didn't touch the vulva pain i hope that the Ovestin will eventually help.
Did you go somewhere hot on holiday ? as you mention that it all started after that and that it can be worse at night. I ditched pyjamas for nighties.
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Thanks so much for all the comments/ advice.
Because I have severe health anxiety it really complicates things! I’m convinced this will never be solved and the torment will never end like it does for so many others.
I’m glad to hear ovestin can take longer to work - a lot of posts on here say that it can work miracles after the initial loading dose. I can’t see any withering or disappearing of bits, which is confusing, as is the fact that almost all the itching is on the outside labia. How does VA affect that area?!
I will definitely take the advice re showering/ washing very seriously, thank you.
I did go on holiday to a very hot country, and had a very unhealthy diet while there! I don’t drink tea or coffee, don’t eat tomatoes so that shouldn’t be a problem.
So hard to understand why some days can be almost symptom free, followed by a couple of horrendous days. I’ve had so many ‘false dawns’ since this began, really thinking an end was in sight, that I find it hard to be hopeful anymore.
It was strange on Xmas day - some itching started and then everyone arrived for lunch and the symptom disappeared for the rest of the day. Or it was just that my focus was elsewhere!
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You have used ovestin for just one month. I have not heard of anybody whose symptoms cleared up so soon. Please do not think it will not improve for you as it is still so early for you. I understand how distressing it is. My symptoms worsen in summer so I can understand if you went to a hot country that yours flared.
VA affects the vulva and can affect the anus too. It is a bit of a confusing name calling it 'vaginal atrophy' but it does affect the other areas too.
Stress can make VA worse and perhaps on Christmas you were so focused that you did not notice any symptoms. You get good and bad days with VA.
It is great your skin looks healthy and there is no shrinking. :)
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Because hormones are up and down the vaginal walls will be affected, which is where VA treatment helps. Slow uptake of your regime should improve after 3-4 weeks, of nightly use the necessary. Many ladies cannot cope with anything less although some are able to revert to a 3rd and 5/6th evening application.
When I get the need2P I take 2 nurofen 3 times a daily to ease that nip as the urine flow shuts off (like today :-\) :(
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Thank you again for the newer comments. It’s SUCH a relief to hear that the Ovestin may take longer to work. What I desperately need right now is light at the end of the tunnel.
Isn’t it strange that VA would affect the anal area? I’m hoping and praying that it’s all intertwined ;D
It really doesn’t help that the GP only gave me a tiny 15g tube of Ovestin…
As for wastage of my bits - I never really checked before so have no idea how things may have changed, but I’m guessing I would notice anything dramatic!
Thank you so much again for taking the time to try and reassure me
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Found this article on thrush https://www.healthline.com/health/yeast-infection-won-t-go-away
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Stress and anxiety will always start my flare ups without fail. Although you have been on full HRT for a year doesn't mean it has reached the vulva area, most people on HRT need local estrogen also to control atrophy and as everyone said it's not a quick fix and hopefully you will start to improve very soon.
However, if you don't get any relief after a few weeks I would suggest asking to be referred to a vulva specialist or a dermatologist as the constant itching is also a symptom of Lichen Sclerosis, you don't always have the tell tale white patches with this. I had traces of this a few years ago and the vulva consultant said it was inactive at the time but gave me a course of hydrocortisone ointment with steroids called Dermovate. This stuff sorts me out within a couple of weeks and I have it on repeat if needed, I've only needed it twice in the last 7 years, both times brought on by a lot of stress. The consultant said I may never get a flare up again or it could happen during times I'm stressed or run down, either way it's manageable with the ointment and Ovestin is also part of this maintenance. I sometimes use Demovate when very sore after a VA flare up too.
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Are you on oral treatment for thrush or just the cream? I had persistent thrush some years ago and gp said it can get into the bloodstream and will keep coming back until treated properly (I had it for a week or two before a period and OK the rest of the time. You can buy fluconazole cheaply from the Internet, a generic one is much cheaper than caneston. Can't remember the details but I think it was to take 3 a fortnight apart.
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Minusminnie - Link wouldn't open ::)
Good idea to ask for a referral.
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I always used the oral one dose Caneston tablet when thrush was suspected and it works very well.
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Thank you so much for all advice. Not sure how to tag individual people - apologies!
I haven’t taken oral thrush treatment but am taking the pessary every week and cream more often. I wish it was thrush as that would be simplest (all relative) but I don’t think a v low growth would explain such fierce itching, and why it moves around? It’s also only external.
I actually wish it was lichen too, simply as there is a definite treatment! Is that usually on the outer labia or on the inner area? And would it have begun on both sides simultaneously? I have an appt booked with a private gynae in Feb - wondering if I should change to a dermatologist? There are no vulval specialists anywhere near me.
Today has been frustrating as I applied diprobase a few times and had almost no itching all day. About an hour ago it came back with a vengeance - I want to claw my skin off! What’s strange is that these itchy flap times seem to correspond with itchy flaky skin in my ears and on my scalp. Right now I have all three locations going like billyo!
No flaking that I’m aware of down below.
The mystery of it all is the worst part of all. Also why it disappears for a while and then returns for seemingly no reason…
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I always used the oral one dose Caneston tablet when thrush was suspected and it works very well.
I do the same having been advised by a consultant if I think it might be thrush. 150mg tablet OTC.
If you took the tablet Champers that might rule the thrush out & one less pessaries / creams around the vagina to think about.
Just a thought.
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Thank you so much for all advice. Not sure how to tag individual people - apologies!
I haven’t taken oral thrush treatment but am taking the pessary every week and cream more often. I wish it was thrush as that would be simplest (all relative) but I don’t think a v low growth would explain such fierce itching, and why it moves around? It’s also only external.
I actually wish it was lichen too, simply as there is a definite treatment! Is that usually on the outer labia or on the inner area? And would it have begun on both sides simultaneously? I have an appt booked with a private gynae in Feb - wondering if I should change to a dermatologist? There are no vulval specialists anywhere near me.
Today has been frustrating as I applied diprobase a few times and had almost no itching all day. About an hour ago it came back with a vengeance - I want to claw my skin off! What’s strange is that these itchy flap times seem to correspond with itchy flaky skin in my ears and on my scalp. Right now I have all three locations going like billyo!
No flaking that I’m aware of down below.
The mystery of it all is the worst part of all. Also why it disappears for a while and then returns for seemingly no reason…
Lichens is external usually on the outer labia and anus.
The fact you had relief using Diprobase could be vulva dermatitis or eczema, which would account for the intense itching and only externally on the labia. A dermatologist would beable to diagnose these symptoms.
I believe Diprobase is being discontiued but Cetraben can also used for eczema and skin irritation.
You seem to be using a lot of different creams so it's hard to tell what's working or what could be causing irritation, try just using one thing at a time and see what helps.
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Thank you so, so much for advice and help. Sadly a really bad day of very intense itching and burning despite diprobase slathered on. Seriously struggling with how to go on if this is going to be the rest of my life.
Please god the dermatologist will have an idea, as a diagnosis would really help. Although if it’s eczema or dermatitis and emollients don’t work…
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Thank you so, so much for advice and help. Sadly a really bad day of very intense itching and burning despite diprobase slathered on. Seriously struggling with how to go on if this is going to be the rest of my life.
Please god the dermatologist will have an idea, as a diagnosis would really help. Although if it’s eczema or dermatitis and emollients don’t work…
If you have eczema then it makes sense there is no improvement as you would need a steriod cream. Would it be worth asking your GP to check your skin? I am unsure if they would recognise eczema. In my early 20s I had so much pain and it was only when I saw a dermatologist I was diagnosed with eczema.
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Please don't wish for Lichen Sclerosis :-\
MayB ask a Pharmacist for advice? They have private rooms for discussion.
Make sure that your urine is not too dark as anything acid may aggravate the symptoms.
What ever you are using, stop for 24 hours : sit in a cool bath with no products for a few moments or wipe the area gently with a cooled flannel. MayB try some 'savlon' or an e-cream to see if that helps. VA can be difficult to ease initially. Some creams have fillers which may also aggravate symptoms.
Too many creams won't help. Some may sting a bit until the skin soaks up the product. I have a 'vaseline' yellow bottle which I can use anywhere in a small amount. Cooling as would LIVE yoghurt be. Not 'natural' as these aren't always 'live'. Let us know how you get on.
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You seem to be using a lot of different creams so it's hard to tell what's working or what could be causing irritation, try just using one thing at a time and see what helps.
Have you stripped back to one cream at a time as Dierdre suggested ? Too much at a time and all the vulva etc can start to get screaming and hypersensitive. Even maybe give the lot a rest for a time to see if going back to basics helps. Then restart if necessary.
Don't be afraid to go to the GUM clinic either as they were very kind and efficient and ruled out herpes for me at one time. You become your own detective until you get an answer.
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Don't be afraid to go to the GUM clinic either as they were very kind and efficient and ruled out herpes for me at one time. You become your own detective until you get an answer.
Champers101, a friend years ago was in the same position as you and in desperation to find answers she went to our local GUM clinic and was eventually diagnosed with eczema.
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Are you sexually active? If so your partner needs to be checked out as he could be passing thrush back to you continuously without having symptoms himself.. He will need to be swabbed.
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I don’t want to diminish the seriousness of lichen sclerosis but in my mind right now nothing at all could be worse than an insanely intense mystery itch that comes and goes with no apparent reason.
I am going to stop all creams for a couple of days as advised - except ovestin - I’ve been using a scattergun approach in desperation. It just feels like there has to be a cream that quietens everything down - I just need to find it!
Am seeing the GP in 2 weeks for a follow up and will ask her to examine the area, which she hasn’t yet. I’m scared she won’t see anything and will just tell me it all looks fine so there can’t be any treatable issue.
Re steroid cream I have been using dermovate the last couple of days to no effect, but it was prescribed 4.5 yrs ago so may not be effective anymore? My son has betnovate cream for his eczema and I’ve nabbed a bit of that also to no effect.
The GUM clinic might be idea if the GP can’t help, thank you.
Today is another bad day and it’s really hard to carry on with normal life when it’s all I can think about every waking moment! This simply can’t be forever - I go to a very dark place when that fear hits
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I don’t want to diminish the seriousness of lichen sclerosis but in my mind right now nothing at all could be worse than an insanely intense mystery itch that comes and goes with no apparent reason.
I am going to stop all creams for a couple of days as advised - except ovestin - I’ve been using a scattergun approach in desperation. It just feels like there has to be a cream that quietens everything down - I just need to find it!
Am seeing the GP in 2 weeks for a follow up and will ask her to examine the area, which she hasn’t yet. I’m scared she won’t see anything and will just tell me it all looks fine so there can’t be any treatable issue.
Re steroid cream I have been using dermovate the last couple of days to no effect, but it was prescribed 4.5 yrs ago so may not be effective anymore? My son has betnovate cream for his eczema and I’ve nabbed a bit of that also to no effect.
The GUM clinic might be idea if the GP can’t help, thank you.
Today is another bad day and it’s really hard to carry on with normal life when it’s all I can think about every waking moment! This simply can’t be forever - I go to a very dark place when that fear hits
Throw the Dermovate away it will be out of date.
I find that if I put any cream on thickly it irritates. Less is more and a thin amount rubbed in well seems to do the job better.
I do this with Ovestin externally too, putting a big blob on burns.
Wash with the Diprobase it stops the water drying out the skin.
Go commando whenever possible.
Wash your pants without soap powder or conditioner on a hot wash and tumble dry, this will clean them but not leave any irritant. Only wear cotton. I wear a perfume free panty liner which stops the pants chafing.
The GUM clinic sounds good, they specialise in this area and will know much more than a GP and have the all the resources to hand to test etc.
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Little and often with the 'ovestin', thinly applied; externally and as far inside as is comfy. Don't wait for 2 weeks, ring the surgery and see if there is a Nurse Practitioner who will give advice.
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There's a book called Me and my Menopausal Vagina - it might be worth a read.
If you can get Caldesene powder it may help. There is a baby (nappy rash) version and an adult version for chaffing, itching. I found the baby powder good for a similar issue. Try not to use too many creams around the same time as you won't be giving any a chance to work. If you need sanitary wear, Natracare is a brand I find good - no irritation. While I don't think mine was as bad as yours sounds, I really felt like I was going to go mad at times. I realised that tomatoes and chocolate were triggers so I cut back as much as possible and if I get the slightest tingling now I take an anti-histamine tablet which helps, along with the Caldesene powder.
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Thank you once again for all the replies and advice. All taken on board! I’m definitely guilty of slathering way too much cream on (even when it’s in date…)
Hate to sound like a stuck record but I’m so so desperate for an answer. I would be able to cope with the symptoms much better if I knew what was causing them. But ironically this puts me off going to see a clinic or anyone else in case they are unable to diagnose me and I run out of options. I want to be able to think ‘this itching and burning is horrible but it’s due to dryness’ or whatever.
Could anyone help me answer a couple of questions please?
1. Would it be flaky and red (by definition) if if it was eczema?
2. For those who have VA - is it ever only on the outside labia for you? That’s the confusing bit. And does the itching and burning move around? (Ok that’s a third question). It seems to concentrate in different areas at different times for me. Maddening!
Thanks so much xx
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U R overthinking!
4 me VA started with repeated urine infection-type symptoms: feeling like the need2P continually. My GP recognised the symptoms by reading my records, recommended treatment over the phone and hey presto! Once I began inserting Ovestin into the vagina at night as well as taking 2 Nurofen 3 times a day to ease the nip as the urine flow stopped, symptoms improved. I also get a feeling across the area under my belly button, kind of 'tight' which is a warning.
If someone uses too much preparation some will wipe off, which may be flaky. Some will stain the panties but that's OK! What goes up ;-). When my outer labia itch I either apply 'savlon', 'KY Jelly' or 'ovestin' where it itches when necessary, as well as internally at night. If possible, put a thin layer of your choice and lay naked on your bed, to allow it to soak in. Keeping the whole area moist will stop the itching. Once symptoms are under control, don't stop using treatment.
Yep the sensations can 'move' around as different areas become dry, thin and itchy. There R a lot of nerve endings around that area!
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This is a thread that was made for anybody to discuss VA. You may find it reassuring to browse it and know you are not alone. :)
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22886.0.html
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Thank you very much to you both. I haven’t really had any urinary issues (a slight burn after peeing sometimes and a lot of urgency and ‘fake full bladder’ which turned out to be anxiety related). The idea of lying spreadeagled on the bed letting air get to the bits sounds like heaven :-)
Isn’t Savlon an antiseptic dream?
Very reassuring that the symptoms can move around
Thanks Flossie - diving straight in now!
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A small amount of 'savlon' eases symptoms for me on the outer labia.
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Isn’t Savlon an antiseptic dream?
and probably is. Personally i wouldn't go down that rabbit hole. A GP or clinic should be able to swab for anything bacterial.
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How is everyone this morning, did U sleep at all?
My bladder feels edgy >:(. Need to take some Nurofen once my breakfast has gone down.
When I have a bad panic attack, as I come out of it my bladder empties itself of copious amounts every 10 mins for several hours. That's when I know that the anxiety is receding.
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Hi Champers101
Did this ever get resolved? Did you get a true diagnosis? It sounds exactly like what I have, sudden onset, insane night time itchiness/throbbing, the itch moving around from anus to perineum to labia, no apparent vaginal involvement etc. Sudocrem is helping me a little.
I really hope you got it fixed, I'd love to hear either way!
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Hi! I’m hoping you see this since it is from over a year ago! I’ve had the same .. itchy scalp, ears & ALL .. I keep saying I think they are related but different doctors tell me no. Please tell me you received a diagnosis? They do all seem to flare at the same time. It’s unbearable. Thank you!!
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I struggle on and off with VA but (touch wood) I seem to have my itchy bum under control. If I do a number two I will always wipe with water wipes alone (never loo roll) or wash my bum straight after.
I used cetaphil face wash on my bum followed by epimax which I rinse off. Then for my vagina and only wash with aqueous cream (for some reason I find the cheap tub for £1 from savers chemist works the best). I agree with another poster washing with water alone doesn’t help
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Suffered from this for ages. When switched to patch and started absorbing.it increased alot. Am using vagifem every 3 days. When wiping anal area, I put some hydromel ointment on tissue paper and use to wipe so bum is really clean .I also use the hydromel to wash vulva and anal area in shower. Touch wood, it's been really good for ages now. Also got dermovate cream a year ago and used that for a few days whenever had a flare but only had to use that twice in the last 6 months. It's bad science as changed so many factors that I don't know what actually sorted it. Had driven me insane for over a year.