Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Katty on January 07, 2023, 07:27:15 PM
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I was diagnosed with this 17 years ago and have managed it with Lanszoprazole, Ranitidine ( now withdrawn) and Famotidine. Now I am 60 and things appear to be getting worse. I just had a month on Lanszoprazole 30mg and felt so much better apart from the wind problem. I came off 7 days ago and am managing the withdrawal with Famotidine which is not as effective. I know Lanszoprazole and the other PPI'S are not a great idea long term but I am getting to the stage with it where quality of life is impaired. I don't want to go for a walk, do housework, move around very much due to the acid. I wanted to ask is anyone else on here on Lanszoprazole or another ppi permanently? Have you been ok?
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Hello Katty. I really am sorry to hear of what you are going through. I take lanzaprazole as I have a hiatal hernia and I cannot cope without it. Once I tried to stop taking it and became in a lot of pain. I understand your concerns about taking it long time. I believe quality of life is more important. I think I have taken it for about 10 years now, possibly more.
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Thanks for your response. What dose are you on? I've just come off 30mg a day which was very effective. I'm just wondering whether to approach the doctor about staying on that or if it will be too high a dose long term. Thanks
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I have been on Omeprazole 40mg for about 4 years and to compensate for any possible side effects I take supplements and exercise every day.
So far I am doing well on them with no major side effects.
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Thanks that's reassuring
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Thanks for your response. What dose are you on? I've just come off 30mg a day which was very effective. I'm just wondering whether to approach the doctor about staying on that or if it will be too high a dose long term. Thanks
I am also on 30mg. You could try a lower dose if you wanted to and see if it is effective enough.
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Now I'm confused again. I'd always thought Famotidine which is a H2 blocker was less invasive than Lanszoprazole. I suspected that PPI'S like Lanszoprazole were pushed because they were cheaper. I decided to talk to a pharmacist. He confirmed that Lanszoprazole can be obtained by the NHS for under £5 per 28. Famotidine is nearer £35 per 28. I had always worried about long term effects. The pharmacist said that in future there will be an explosion of people with issues due to long term use of all of these medications. Bone density issues and effects in the brain leading to dementia. He said that the problem is low acid and people need to increase acid just before eating. This triggers the oesophageal sphincter to close keeping acid down. This is going down the cider vinegar route which I had heard of but there are other methods. He told me of a Dr Berg who has videos on YouTube on acid reflux. I'm all over the place now not knowing which is the best way to go. Lanszoprazole through GP because they are reluctant with the cost of Famotidine. Famotidine purchased by myself or none of them and apple cider vinegar. I tried that once but didn't preserve due to the taste. Apple cider vinegar I'm going to have to take before every meal which isn't a great start to a meal. On the other hand the other effects are worring regarding bone density and dementia. What a choice yet so many people have been on the medication for years. Are they really all bonkers and bent over?😂
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It is true that PPI's can effect bone density and people are advised to take calcium. Taking oestrogen will also help protect the bones. I believe not treating acid reflux can damage the oesophagus because before I knew I had a hiatus hernia I had very bad acid reflux and an endoscopy found I have oesophagitis. I think any medication can have side effects but you have to do what is right for you. I will always take lansoprazole as I believe in quality of life.
I think you need to do what you feel is right because getting different advice seems to be making you feel very confused which is understandable. You said your symptoms were under control until you stopped the lansoprazole which indicates it was helping you. Perhaps a chat with your GP to discuss your concerns may be helpful. :)
Just to add, I found out Dr Berg is not a licenced Dr and a lot of his teachings is pseudoscience. I am quite shocked the pharmacist recommended him to you.
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Quality of life for me too and trying to avoid any more damage is essential for me.
All medicines have side effects and as I said previously, I take supplements to hopefully ward off long term side effects of the PPI.
Agree, the pharmacist was being irresponsible in his advice.
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Thank you. You have reassured me. I did wonder about some of the things the pharmacist said and had not heard of Dr Berg before. Funnily enough the pharmacist said he also was against pain killers because we need to let our body deal with pain etc. One day he wanted to open a shop with all plant based cures. You may have saved me from a life drinking vinegar 😂
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Hey
I had a recent post up about gastritis. My pain seems to he calming, but I still feel refluxy. Not sure if reflux and gastritis are classed as the same?!
Anyway, I have famotidine. However, in this instance if I rage it my pain gets worse and I get terrible heartburn. I'm better not on it.
So I did wonder if that meant my problem was low acid. So I took an hcl tablet - but I swear I was worse after that. I'm too scared to try that again.
So I'm taking zinc l carnosine. I'm not seeing much benefit from it yet, but it says it can take 8 weeks. Look into that and the studies around it, if you would rather get off the ppi. It seems in Japan they prescribe it for these issues.
X
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Thank you. You have reassured me. I did wonder about some of the things the pharmacist said and had not heard of Dr Berg before. Funnily enough the pharmacist said he also was against pain killers because we need to let our body deal with pain etc. One day he wanted to open a shop with all plant based cures. You may have saved me from a life drinking vinegar 😂
For a pharmacist to say our bodies need to deal with pain and not agree with painkillers I think you should avoid the place they work!
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Honestly we talked for ages and I began to feel silly about taking either Lanszoprazole or Famotidine. I suppose I needed a bit of balance again so came on here
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I think that as things are changing then you should get this checked out if you haven't already. I am on omeprazole for hiatus hernia induced reflux. I left it for some time before getting investigations and by then had a quite severely ulcerated oesophagus which took six months on high dose omeprazole to sort out. Had a bit of a lecture from the endoscopy wielding doc! It's really not worth self diagnosing. Have you had an endoscopy in the last seventeen years?
Taz x :hug:
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I tried Lanszoprazole, omeprazole, pantoprazole and one beginning with E? and also ranitidine, and they all made my skin itch. Dr put me on Famotidine and it did nothing for my gastritis or my reflux (didn't itch either) So when it was suggested I try rabeprazole I was reluctant, thinking it would make me itch, it didn't and I'm still taking it. It keeps my symptoms at bay.
Apparently I have excess bile, probably caused by having my gallbladder removed.
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No I never did get investigated by camera etc. 17 years ago I'd actually had the problem for a couple of years before I got a diagnosis. The immediate assumption was that I had gall bladder issues. I had that scanned and was negative. A new doctor joined the surgery and because he'd had an ulcer himself he recognised my symptoms and diagnosed Gerd. I've been managing it since. Things flared up in lockdown and I've gained a stone in weight which probably hasn't helped. I doubt I'll be put forward for any tests given the crisis in the NHS. I'm just trying to find a way forward now
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Hiatus hernia is common in peri-menopause due to laxity of muscles allowing gastric juices back up because the spincter has lost its strength.
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Incredible isn't it the menopause is so wide reaching. I never had any gastric issues when younger not even indigestion
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It's The Change - I suppose when younger going into menstruation was more supported? Even if we didn't know what to expect, most girls went there within 12 months of each other.
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Hello ladies.
I am also amazed that the pharmacist recommended Dr Berg who is well known on YouTube as being unqualified and just plain wrong on so many subjects. He is not an MD but a Chiropractor and actual Doctors often point out his errors.
Having said that I wonder if this condition can be helped by a change of diet? I understand that animal products are more difficult to digest meaning they stay in the stomach for longer and this puts pressure on the acid producing cells and the valve. Perhaps sufferers could try a plant based diet for a short time to see if this helps?
I only know one person who has been on these drugs for years and as far as I know his only side effect has been a low sodium level which made him very ill before it was diagnosed. He now has his GP monitor his levels.
I realise that most people don't want to change a diet that they are happy with but perhaps it will only take a small lifestyle tweak to help reduce symptoms so perhaps worth a try.
If anyone does tackle this condition with dietary changes it would be interesting to know of they work.
Wishing you all well ladies.
K.
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So interesting Katty that your pharmacist said so. I suffer myself and researched online a lot, not wanting to stay on omeprazole. I did a sodium bicarbonate test that I found online and it indicated that my acid is low rather than high.
I take now apple cider vinegar at least 15 min before a meal once a day (one spoonful in a glass of water, drinking with a straw to preserve enamel on my teeth). I also try to eat slowly what I didn't used to do, all to increase the acid.
I also do breathing exercises that I found online to strengthen my diaphragm.
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I forgot to say that I don't agree with Dr Berg, I was just searching for good ideas for natural products that could help. I am a vegetarian and find it quite sad that I can't eat tinned tomatoes anymore...
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After a really rough few days where I was waking at 4am with mouthfulls of acid I had another consultation and it looks like I'll be on Lanszoprazole 30mg indefinitely. I've lost the battle. My oesophagus feels like it's burned and it's unbearable. The acid is present whether or not I've eaten recently. It's beginning to look like there may be a hiatial hernia as nothing makes a difference. I expect the doctor sees no point in confirming that because the treatment is the same. Thanks for all your help particularly on Dr Berg. The pharmacist pulled up one of his videos while I was in the store and really recommended him. I had never heard of him before.
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Hopefully the 30mg will work. I was diagnosed with hiatus hernia by endoscopy following the same symptoms as you. I had to have 40mg omeprazole for sixteen weeks then a follow up endoscopy before being dropped down to 20mg. Now and again I have a return of the night time waking up with a mouth full of acid (horrible!) and I up the dose for a couple of weeks. I think it depends on age as to whether you are referred for endoscopy. I was over 55.
What time of day have you been advised to take the ppi?
Taz x
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As you are going to be on PPI's long term check out supplements like VD-3, Zinc, B12 and Calcium, although calcium gave me reflux but you might be different.
Supplements will help with the side effects of taking the PPI's.
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I have been advised to take it first thing in the morning 30 to 60 minutes before eating. I'm 60 now Taz2 so maybe they won't investigate as it wouldn't change the treatment. I suspect it might be a hiatial hernia. It's quite incredible how many people are on this medication.
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I'm surprised you haven't been given an endoscopy to be honest. It's not really to check that the diagnosis of hiatus hernia is correct but to rule out the pre-cancerous changes which can occur in the oesophagus due to damage from the acid. It's also a good idea to find out which type of hiatus hernia it is. Mine is a sliding one.
I take mine as soon as I wake up too.
Taz x
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I'm looking into supplements to offset the effects of Lanszoprazole. One thing occurred to me, if Lanszoprazole prevents the absorption of certain vitamins and minerals from food through the gut wouldn't it also be the same for oral supplements? I know many vitamins have sprays now so a multivitamin spray might be a start as that's transdermal absorption in the mouth. I haven't found one that includes magnesium though that you just spray in the mouth. Am I getting too anal about this? 😁
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Yes that's what my GP explained. I did mention this before on a thread. I'll try to find the link I used and post on here.
Taz x
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There seems to be much confusion around the subject of supplementing B12 when on a PPI and, according to my GP, understanding is still developing. I have copied this from a medical forum - I couldn't post the whole discussion.
The Rotherham NHS Foundation Trust
PPIs may reduce B12 absorption from natural food. This is because B12 in food is protein-bound. Gastric acid and pepsin are required to break the bond and liberate B12. The next crucial step is for the B12 to bind to intrinsic factors (IFs). Only then B12 will be absorbed.
My theory is : If B12 in modified or fortified supplements (unlike the one in natural food) was not protein bound, and if IFs are intact, then B12 can potentially be reliably absorbed in individuals on PPI therapy.
This link is concerning the absorption of magnesium. It is very detailed but if you scroll down to the 3.3 section it gives findings on trying to restore magnesium in severely affected patients. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apha.13846?af=R
There is also some discussion around the nasal route for supplementation of B12 which would be absorbed well. The whole subject of whether or not various acid depleting medications do rob the body of nutrients is still very hazy.
Taz x
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Thank you so much for all that information. It does seem that there is a problem with magnesium absorption in oral supplements as well as from food. Other vitamins may get in via spray. Of course as we age these depletions are important especially for bone density. When I was first diagnosed with Acid Reflux at the age of 44 I came off ppi's because of concerns about long term use. Now at 60 I'm more concerned with quality of life as it's got worse. I feel so much better now I am back on them again. I'll take some supplements and hope for the best. I'm on Kliovance HRT so hoping that will help too. At least I'm not drowning in me own acid every day 😁
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I was on PPI's a long time before I realised the side effects on the body from taking them. It was when I started on the supplements that I started to feel so much better, I was obviously lacking in some vitamins because of the way I was feeling. Once the supplements kicked in my energy came back and I no longer suffer from fatigue. Unfortunately I can't tolerate magnesium or calcium but I am happy with how I am feeling now whilst having to take PPI's long term. From someone who never took a paracetamol I have a cupboard full of supplements I take daily, such is old age! I never say no anymore to what's on offer to make me feel better.
Glad you have got it all sorted, Katty, it's all about quality of life and what works for you.
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Do you take your supplements in tablet form? As you are feeling better it sounds as though they may be getting through.
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I take them all in tablet form.
My latest supplement is probiotics, recommended by forum member Flossieteacake. I had never taken them before and I would now highly recommend them to anyone dealing with digestive issues.
This forum is a font of amazing information from the women on here, I have learned so much!
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I take Lanszoprazole first thing in the morning around an hour before eating. Has anyone got any advice on when to take a supplement to maximise any absorption and not interfere with the Lanszoprazole? Thanks
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I can only speak from my own experience. I take Omeprazole 30 mins before breakfast. After breakfast I have the first of my supplements with water then after dinner in the early evening I have the rest. I don’t have any issues taking my supplements this way and they are not interfering with the Omeprazole.
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Thank you for your help. When you say it's your experience that's exactly what I'm looking for. Instruction leaflets and information online is no substitute for people's actual experience. Thank you
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Thanks Ayesha. Which supplements do you take? Sorry if you've already said. I've had my calcium and B12 checked and they are stil fine after four years of omeprazole. I was found to have very low vitaminD though and since being on a prescribed dose for the last six weeks I now feel so much better. I was sure it was to do with the omeprazole but this wasn't the case thankfully.
Taz x
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My daily routine for about a year is VitB12-100mg, L-Choline 500, Plant Sterol 400mg after breakfast.
After dinner Zinc 15mg, Plant Sterol 400mg and a Probiotic All taken in tablet and capsule form.
Just as an aside to all of this. For years I have been pre-diabetic even with a very healthy diet. At the doctors this week to get the results of my annual blood tests, I have been told I am no longer pre-diabetic and my number is very low, in fact his words were I am way off being pre- diabetic.
I haven’t done enough research yet, but I think I can safely say it’s thanks to the zinc. But I was told my cholesterol was high at 7.2 and as I never say no anymore to meds, I started on my first statin last night and am feeling very jittery this morning and hoping for no long term side effects!!
I am now off to the shops rattling all the way no doubt. ::)
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Well done on reversing the pre-diabetes! I agree that it's probably the zinc which has helped together, no doubt, with more exercise and losing any excess weight. My partner is currently trying to reverse his recently diagnosed pre-diabetic status and has been advised to take zinc supplements as well as all of the dietary advice and upping the exercise. So far he has lost almost a stone.
Sorry that the plant sterols haven't lowered your cholesterol enough but I wonder how high it would be without them? I haven't had my cholesterol checked for six years and my doctor is reluctant to do it but I don't know why! Good luck with the statins. My partner has no side effects from his - I can't remember which one he is on though.
Taz x
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Taz2, that’s very interesting your comment about zinc. I will take that as confirmation that it’s the zinc that reversed my prediabetes. It didn’t make sense to me being on a healthy diet and weighing under 8 stone with no alcohol and smoking, that for years I had this diagnoses.
I didn’t start taking plant sterols until after I had the blood test but I am going to continue with them whilst being on the statins.
I hope your husband manages to reverse his prediabetes, it’s quite an achievement and satisfying when you do. :)
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Has anyone ever had a situation where they've eaten something and had stomach pains for hours after? It's as if I couldn't digest it. It was chicken, potato wedges and side salad. It feels like I can't eat like that anymore. Wind is also shocking. I haven't been out much as I try to stabilise but just as well. I didn't want to turn into a farty old lady 😂
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Salads were the first thing I stopped, in particular cucumber, it gave me bad stomach pains.
My supplements list has grown so much because of the amount of foods I am now unable to eat, it's like my stomach is reversing back to being a baby/toddler.
It can get very depressing walking around supermarkets now, I used to love food and cooking with a glass of wine in hand but I reach for the supplements now. Oh the joys of old age and having to educate myself on how to learn all about this new body I am inhabiting.
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I can no longer eat salad either. Cucumber makes me feel bloated, tomato gives me acid reflux, etc. I feel the same as Ayesha as I too feel sad thinking of all the foods I cannot eat.
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I remember being in tears walking around the supermarket, especially at Christmas time, and seeing all that lovely food on the shelves that I used to love and cook.
I still walk around the supermarket now but let my husband do all the shopping, I look at the flowers and buy them instead as a treat! ::)
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I remember being in tears walking around the supermarket, especially at Christmas time, and seeing all that lovely food on the shelves that I used to love and cook.
I still walk around the supermarket now but let my husband do all the shopping, I look at the flowers and buy them instead as a treat! ::)
I can understand that. Flowers are a lovely treat. :) My treats now are books. :D
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I would never have thought it was the salad I needed to consider. I felt so bloated I thought it must be the wedges. I'm 48 hours after that meal and still not completely over it. My stomach feels as though there's a tight band around it. Having looked up salad I now realise it's tough to digest.
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I would never have thought it was the salad I needed to consider. I felt so bloated I thought it must be the wedges. I'm 48 hours after that meal and still not completely over it. My stomach feels as though there's a tight band around it. Having looked up salad I now realise it's tough to digest.
I really hope the feeling passes soon. What I have found is anything healthy causes me bloating and other horrid symptoms.
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Anything healthy. I can relate to that. I ate an orange the other day and suffered after that. No bloody 5 a day for me 😁 It seems canned fruit is easier to digest from what I have researched. I'll be a proper old gal with me tinned fruit.
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I'll be a proper old gal with me tinned fruit.
Wait for when you reach for the Werthers in the supermarket, that's old, old!! ;D
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I quite like Werthers... ;D