Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: MIS71MUM on December 12, 2022, 10:49:06 AM
-
For the last few days, after applying the gel, it’s made me unwell! Caffeinated and almost like a bad trip! My hearts been racing, my blood pressure up always a few hours after applying the gel.
Last night the same happened again whilst I was asleep! This is the end of my 2nd week on the gel. It was a frightening experience.
This time last apart from having hot flushes, my mood was good and I was looking forward to Christmas!
Now I’m panicking about what to do for the best.
Not applied anything this morning and no panick attack!! Just feel sleep deprived as not being sleeping well this week!
-
I am so sorry you are having such a difficult time with HRT. Lack of sleep is awful and makes everything so much harder. I do not have any advice but just wanted to tell you how sorry I am that you are going through this.
-
Hi FlossieTeacake
Thank you for replying. Really not sure what to do at the moment!
Frightened to death of spoiling Christmas for my family who have been amazing throughout all this.
To be honest, I think I’ve started on to a high a dose from the beginning.
-
Hi FlossieTeacake
Thank you for replying. Really not sure what to do at the moment!
Frightened to death of spoiling Christmas for my family who have been amazing throughout all this.
To be honest, I think I’ve started on to a high a dose from the beginning.
I personally think starting as low as possible helps because it allows the body to get used to things slowly. Is it possible for you to go back to the lower dose and start again?
Aww, you are not going to spoil Christmas. You cannot help feeling bad.
-
You've got your answer, mayB - it's too much too soon. Give your body a break for 36 hours to C how you feel. It's ages until C.mas ;-) so try not to worry. Tell those you expect to spend C.mas/New Year with how you are! Pass over any chores too.
-
I would go back to the GP MIS71MUM. I felt exactly the same on the gel. I managed 1 month before switching back to patches. I reduced the amount of gel but it didn't stop the anxiety and insomnia. I was in such a terrible state. I felt better within just a day or 2 after switching back to patches.
-
So terribly sorry to hear what you were suffering. My heart really goes out to you because that is exactly what was happening to me on the gel. I think the advice on here is right. Go back and talk to your GP.. I was on oestrogel for over 20 years, quite happily with no problems whatsoever, but then they slightly changed the formulation and for me it just doesn’t work. For a start I wasn’t absorbing it at all as was proved by my blood test level which was only 53 and like you recently on the newer bottles I was getting this horrendous jolt and felt like I was on speed or something an hour or so after I had applied for Jo. I was also getting fast heartbeat at night. Really scary, You shouldn’t have to be suffering like this. I honestly don’t think batches of gel are consistent anymore and the menu consultant said the same to me. I have been put on Estradot patches and I’m definitely starting to improve . I’ve had none of the horrible rush or fast heartbeat since stopping the gel. I really hope it helps knowing that you are not alone. I certainly felt extremely unwell on the gel too . Hugs, love and empathy. Xx
-
Thank you for your lovely replies! I have started to feel terrible since going on the gel. Had so much broken sleep with it too.
It’s absolutely frightened the life out of me using the gel.
I’ve booked some blood tests for Wednesday and also put on a 50mg patch, which is lower than I have previously started them. I know I’ve messed around with my system but I can’t put myself through that again.
I have slight jitters at the moment, but know that will pass and hopefully tomorrow will be better. Maybe I might get some sleep tonight too.
-
I would go back to the GP MIS71MUM. I felt exactly the same on the gel. I managed 1 month before switching back to patches. I reduced the amount of gel but it didn't stop the anxiety and insomnia. I was in such a terrible state. I felt better within just a day or 2 after switching back to patches.
Madame Ovary - so strange that even though you reduced the gel, you still had the anxiety and insomnia.
Think this is what myself and Pippa have also experienced. Doesn’t matter if you reduce, the hit is still there.
Fingers crossed the patch will help.
-
Thank you for your lovely replies! I have started to feel terrible since going on the gel. Had so much broken sleep with it too.
It’s absolutely frightened the life out of me using the gel.
I’ve booked some blood tests for Wednesday and also put on a 50mg patch, which is lower than I have previously started them. I know I’ve messed around with my system but I can’t put myself through that again.
I have slight jitters at the moment, but know that will pass and hopefully tomorrow will be better. Maybe I might get some sleep tonight too.
Hopefully things will settle once your body gets used to the 50 patch. It will be wonderful when your sleep gets back to normal too. Maybe you could try to remind yourself that this is temporary. Things will improve for you.
-
Fingers crossed you get a good night's sleep and start to feel better now you've got a patch on MIS71MUM.
Can I please encourage everyone who's had this experience with the gel to report it on the yellow card scheme? It's important for adverse experiences to be recorded.
-
MadameOvary. - yes re the yellow card reporting. I actually did this when I first noticed how much the gel had changed about a year ago but its reached a whole new level now it made me feel so ill recently. I will of course report it on the yellow card system again - something clearly is not right here. I am very pleased to be on patches and have had no more fast heartbeats and am starting to sleep better already. I upped the dose as the Meno consult advised 3 days ago to 37.5 patch. I understand however now there is a shortage of Estradot patches :( am praying it is sorted out and fast as I don' think I could bear to change again and Evorel patches gave me the most awful migraines. What a roller coaster this all is xx
-
Could it mayB too much all the while, if body hormones are still active. It's the Trial and Error that can B so tiring!
-
Pippa52 It sounds like we had the same horrendous experience on estrogel. I've read several posts on here and other forums where women are saying the same thing. I'm so pleased to be back on patches. I'm on Estrodot too and so far so good. I like that they're much smaller than Evorel. I feel like me again!
-
I had a total hysterectomy so no womb or ovaries so for me I don't think for me other hormones circulating can be the case. As I said I was on Oestrogel for over 20 years with no problems till they changed the formulation even though Besin's insisted they haven't something has without doubt changed even more so recently xx
-
MadameOvary yes we both seem to have had exactly the same experience with Oestrogel - I certainly won't ever be going back on it now. Estradot 37.5 seems to be really starting to work so I am daring to let myself be optimistic that maybe for me the patches are the jackpot. Its certainly been a long road. Evorel didn't suit me at all either. Hope so much you continue to feel better. xxx
-
@MIS71MUM I see you were on 6 pumps of oestrogel? I know some menopause specialists prescribe high dose, but that is high as a starting dose.
I’ve been on HRT for 7 years, and started on oestrogel, 2 pumps at first, then gradually over the years I increased to 4. I now use evorel 100 patches which suit me well.
Regarding oestrogel, when I increased too much too soon, I felt exactly as you describe, I had to increase by half a pump at a time to give my body chance to adjust.
I wouldn’t be scared of oestrogel hun, just the dose being too high, and too much too soon.
-
How R U this. morning?
-
Yesterday was okay - bit panicky here and there. This morning I feel flat but to be expected I suppose after dropping doses.
LJP - I had been taking 6 pumps successfully for nearly 6 years. Then with the shortages, changing preparations and probably my body changing, things haven’t really settled for the last 6 months.
Blood tests today, these should be interesting!!
-
Hi MIS71MUM
Let us know what your blood tests are xx
-
Hello MIS71MUM.
At one time I was prescribed 6 pumps of gel by my menopause clinic. I was concerned about using so much gel so as an alternative I was told to use three sachets of Sandrena instead and that was much easier. Perhaps Sandrena can be an option for you in the future?
Take care and let us know how you get on today.
Wishing you well.
K.
-
As I said Oestrogel worked really well for me for over 20 years until the formulation was slightly changed and for some reason for me personally it never seemed to work properly again plus I clearly stopped absorbing it too. Hope so much you start to feel better soon on a lower dose. xxx
-
Well I had an okay day yesterday. Today okay-ish! A few tears which I suppose is to be expected as I have stopped the gel and restarted the patches!
But just had a really funny turn! Could suddenly start to feel disorientated, hot, not with it, felt a bit out of it, fizzy chest, palpitations and a spike in my heart rate! Very scary indeed! Wonder if it’s a panick attack/hot flush caused my hormones!!
-
Well I had an okay day yesterday. Today okay-ish! A few tears which I suppose is to be expected as I have stopped the gel and restarted the patches!
But just had a really funny turn! Could suddenly start to feel disorientated, hot, not with it, felt a bit out of it, fizzy chest, palpitations and a spike in my heart rate! Very scary indeed! Wonder if it’s a panick attack/hot flush caused my hormones!!
I am sorry to hear this. It is scary when it happens. How are you feeling now? I find lying down and trying to deep breathe helps me when this happens.
-
Thanks Flossie!
Yes okay now, something has just come to mind, I’ve had something similar to this before years ago.
I was on my way to work and felt unwell, similar symptoms to above. I came round eventually after resting and drinking water. Went to the ladies and realised my patch was missing! Later on that night, I’d found it stuck to a throw on the settee and realised I must have lost it a few days before!!
So my reckoning is that this must be the drop from the gel to patch…. Let’s hope so!!!
-
Thanks Flossie!
Yes okay now, something has just come to mind, I’ve had something similar to this before years ago.
I was on my way to work and felt unwell, similar symptoms to above. I came round eventually after resting and drinking water. Went to the ladies and realised my patch was missing! Later on that night, I’d found it stuck to a throw on the settee and realised I must have lost it a few days before!!
So my reckoning is that this must be the drop from the gel to patch…. Let’s hope so!!!
That makes sense. It is good you figured out what could have caused this. I am glad you are feeling okay now. :)
-
MIS71MUM a dose change can definitely cause that I have felt the same. What patch and dose are you on now? I went from 2 pumps of Oestrogel to a 25 Estradot patch - after a couple of days it was clear that 25 was not enough so as advised I went up to the next strength of Estradot patch 37.5. Feel better although I can also feel the dose change and quite expect it to take a while to level out. Hope so much you start to feel better very soon xx
-
Sorry you are suffering. The symptoms you describe are for some of us a low Estrogen symptoms and I still have them. Almost 4 years ago I started with those symptoms and blamed the gel and then when changed to patches the same thing so then I stopped everything and you guessed it it still happened so it wasn’t the HRT at all just lack of it.
It may be that you don’t absorb the gel too well.
Perhaps the patch or another type of delivery may help. Its very much trial and error.
-
Blood tests back - no suprise really, 91 pmol! Pippa - it seems we were both struggling with the gel!
That was taken the day after I stopped applying the gel due to the side effects!
-
MIS71MUM - oh my goodness no wonder you have been feeling so rotten too. I had a telephone consultation with my GP today to ask her to change my repeat prescriptions over to the patches as the Meno consult had advised and she said she has had several other of her patients having to change from Oestrogel because of the side effects they were getting which I assume is because maybe they were not absorbing it properly either. Its so strange - as I said I was on it for over 20 years with no problems at all and it's only since they altered the ingredient and although Besins wrote to me saying nothing has changed it clearly has as it has never worked for me since and it seems the same is happening to others as well and the Meno consultant told me she has found the same. So far the Estradot 37.5 patches seem to be working well for me although I was told I may have to go up to Estradot 50 possibly at some point but so far so good. What dose patch are you on? Do hope you are starting to feel better. I have another blood test in March so will be interesting to see what the level is then. xxxx
-
I’m exactly the same, doubt very much I’d be in this place if it was still 17beta oestrogen in circulation!
I feel really angry, as this last 8 months have been tricky due to the shortages. But the last 3 months have been an almost disaster due to the changes of gel, green or amber bottles! I’ve had to increase my antidepressants, had to pay privately to see a CBT therapist and paid another menopause specialist privately for a second opinion. Aside from that, my performance at work has been below par and have spent lots of time in my head instead of my life!
I’m now doing a 50mg patch every 3 days to see how things go. I know that I’ve still got a long way to go too so need to take one day at a time.
Will definitely repeat my bloods in the new year and report back.
-
MIS71MUM, that is a very low oestrogen level in fact, it's roughly the same as my baseline oestrogen level when not using HRT and I'm 15 years post menopause. I think this explains the panic attacks you have been experiencing.
Pippa, two pumps of gel is roughly equivalent to a 50 mcg patch.
I found that patches did not provide a stable level of oestrogen and they made my migraines worse. I think they dumped too much oestrogen in the first couple of days and virtually nothing by day three.
There seems to be an issue with Oestrogel. Is the Estrogel brand in the blue container still available?
-
Hi Mary G
Yes you’re right, it’s not a good level for someone who’s been on hrt for 10 years!
It’s possibly one of the lowest readings I’ve ever had. For whatever reason, I
Just don’t absorb the new gel. Firstly I think it changed from 17b oestrogel to oestrogel. At this point, one of the active ingredients changed too! Then Besins opened a new factory in Belgium so two types of oestrogel were on the shelves. Many ladies have reported differences but I’ve tried to persevere, Sadly it hasn’t worked for me.
I definitely agree in that you can get too much from a patch on day 1, and then it falls away, but for now, it’s better than getting nothing at all from the gel.
Also sorry that Pippa has struggled too, but it’s been helpful that I’ve not been alone xx
-
MIS71MUM
As you know I feel your pain I really do. I so hope the patches will work out for you. I definitely am better off the gel but know it will take a while to level out again to some form of normality. Like you I have been messed around since the shortages with many changes and was so relieved when the Oestrogel became available again as it had always worked so well for me over 20 years in the past but sadly no more. It has changed and I have no doubts on that after my experience as personally it does not work for me at all. I was on up to 3 pumps at one point (highest I have ever been on) when I felt at my worst yet my blood levels of oestrogen were the lowest I have ever had at 53 I might as well not have been on HRT at all. I definitely feel better off Oestrogel and am hoping the patches continue to work better. I have been told it will probably take several months to level out properly which is hardly surprising after the last year and a half of several changes. It really is so true what suits one person doesn't work for others we are all very individual. I hope so much that you start to improve and continue to get better and better too. What a roller coaster ay! xx
-
Mary G - many thanks re the dose advice. I am on a 37.5 patch at the moment and on my next blood test the Meno consultant said she would see whether I need to go up to a 50 patch - she did say though if my symptoms were under control and I was feeling better I may not need to xx