Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: sweettooth on November 23, 2022, 06:24:06 PM
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Hi ladies,
I’m really in a pickle and need some ladies to chat whi have been in a similar position.
I am 61 on 2mg tablet, but since jab and Covid I just cannot find a balance. I think they sparked off a mast cell issue and I am wondering if I could do better with some progesterone to balance me?? My last reading was estrogen 440.
My worry is I have a history of pmt and postnatal and I’m not sure if this would mean it wouldn’t suit me?
I’m at my wits end not getting anywhere. I felt very low on mirena years ago but that was synthetic.
Many thanks ladies x
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Hi Molly, can I ask what dose patches are you on please? I think you are right re transdermal, I tried everol at the start but had trouble absorbing, perhaps estradot would be better?
If anyone has found estradot better than everol can you let me know please?
I was on Testogel and specialist said to try without it as it can in some women cause imbalances but I think I am going to go back to it. Tk u
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Hi Sweettooth
It might well be some progesterone could help you find balance.
Your difficulty would be getting it prescribed. That said any prescribed progesterone would be too high a dose and could lead to depression and other symptoms.
Progesterone is a calming hormone, so if you tolerate it, you may be able to balance any anxiety effect you can get from estrogen.
Your options might be-
Reduce your estrogen dosage
Try some otc progesterone cream
Or as Mollydolly suggests, think about trialing some testosterone.
M xxx 😘
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Thank you Marchlove very kind of you to reply and good advice❤️
I think you are right, I was thinking the prescribed progesterone doses could be too high!!
If I were to try otc prog cream where’s best to buy it and which one if you know that is!
🌺🌺
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There are several online, but sorry I can’t recommend one as have not used them myself. You could start a new thread and ask other members.
Another alternative could be to try some otc oral pregnenolone which is a precursor of progesterone.
If finances allow, you could find a specialist who can prescribe a low dose compounded progesterone.
Just to mention, that once you’ve been on transdermal progesterone a few months, you should take a day off each week so as to prevent receptor resistance.
Good luck with it all :-*
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Some doctors believe that all women should take progesterone, even those without womb. Prescribed progesterone tablet is not too high- 100 mg. But problem is that GP won’t prescribe it to you. Perhaps, some private doctor might ?
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Hi sweettooth,
I tried everol at the start but had trouble absorbing, perhaps estradot would be better? If anyone has found estradot better than everol can you let me know please?
Yes, I found I used to get much better absorption from Estradot than Evorel.
Wx
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Hi Sweettooth
I do hope you’ve got some insight from all our replies.
I expect your weighing it all up and thinking through all your options, of which there are many!
Keep in touch with us all as your journey must resonate with many members who’ve had a hysterectomy.
Mx
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Hiya
I have massive mast cell and histamine issues and did pre covid, but then I got covid, and I feel your pain. I see Dr Tina Peers, there's some info on her website about histamine if you google her (Louise Newsom also has some info in her fact sheets section).
Oestrogen is histamine and mast cell aggravating. You could try something like 120mg fexofenadine twice a day (available OTC) and or famotidine (H2 antihistamine, it's OTC in the USA as Pepcid, you can get it on Ebay or buy it OTC in Greece or other places in Europe) and see if that helps. Famotidine is also being trialled during covid infection now (if you google that), as it seems to prevent a mild infection worsening, there's some interesting info about it.
I'm struggling post covid, but pre covid I could not tolerate E without first steadying the histamine. Low histamine diet also helps, I use the Swiss List of foods.
x
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Hi sweettooth
Sorry to hear about your issues - I know nothing about mast cell and histamines.
However - I doubt whether you need progesterone - there is a lot of discussion bandied around about balancing the two but I don't know of any evidence that this is so except for endometrial protection and pregnancy? We do continue to produce progesterone throughout our lives, sufficient for metabolism but in low doses.
However I see MollyDolly suggested a transdermal oestrogen and I would echo that - tablet oestrogen raises a compound in the body known as SHBG, which mops up free testosterone so her suggestion to restart T is a good one - but only with transdermal oestrogen. It can only cause imbalances if too high a dose is used asnd if you see a specialist they should carry out blood tests to ensure that T remains within the female range, and also measure SHBG so you can work out your "Female Androgen Index" - a proxy measurement for free testosterone.
Re which patch to choose - I was on Estradot for many years and very happy on it. When the shortages started a few years ago I was put onto different products, and finally given Evorel - and I definitely get more oestrogen from this than Estradot - but it will depend on our individual skin because the sizes of the patches vary.
All the best and let us know how you get on and what you decide,
Hurdity x
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Hurdity - no evidence??? Lots of discussion bandied about??? This us why were being failed in the UK.
As somone who is in peri menopause I totally believe you need balance. My estrogen levels are fine, but my progesterone is rock bottom and I am hugely symptomatic. I cannot explain how bad this imbalance makes be feel. The NHS can only offer me more estrogen - which, obviously makes me feel worse.
I do also get Pmt - so I understand your concern with prog. I have tried many forms and doses over the last year and, I've read, low doses and high doses tend to aggravate Pmt... But find your middle of the road sweet spot and you should be fine.
I've certainly experienced more and less Pmt on different doses and delivery methods. Unfortunately, you've got to try and see.
But I would definitely suggest it's worth a try - but probably best to stay away from the big hit utrogestan, since u arent needing this for endometrium protection.
Xx
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Can’t thank you all enough ladies! Such kind & thoughtful people on here. I will be honest here and say I have always been difficult to balance but since jab and Covid I have been in very dark places re the impact of imbalances etc! I have never ever been so mentally ill at times needing cris support and only for my wonderful family I just couldnt have gone on☹️
I think I would be better on transdermal but I’m also terrified of the change as I am so so extremely sensitive, but something has to change.
Interesting replies about progesterone and again I will only know by trying. I am with Dr peers and have tried anti histamines and am on low hist diet this 3 months plus gluten free etc etc and nothing really helped. I don’t have stressors in my life at present only all this hormone instability, which has major impact on my brain chemicals.
I won’t give up as I know I can be well and when I am it’s great😊
I will keep in touch to let you all know how things progress.
A huge hug to you all🥰
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Ps ladies I’m wondering how I change from 2mg E tablet to patch say estradot?!! I would like to be on a lower dose. Not sure if any of you have done this? Xx
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Hi sweettooth, if you are asking about equivalents there is a table on p3 of this link that shows them. It lists 2mg oral as equiv to 50mcg patch. If you want to go down a bit, Estradot do a 37.5mcg oestradiol patch, but it will obviously depend on how well you absorb from each method as to what happens to your blood levels. As always, trial & error I'm afraid.
I see from your original post that your last oestradiol reading was 440, we will obviously be quite different in how we respond to the various methods, but to give you an idea I was getting around 270 from a 37.5mcg Estradot patch, which would be a big drop from your 440 on the 2mg oral.
Wx
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/HRT-Doses-Sep2021.pdf
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Pre Menstrual Syndrome (PMS/PMT) happens in the 10-14 days prior to a bleed. It eases immediately the period begins. So any upheaval in peri needs to be looked at within the cyclic pattern of your usual periods. MayB have a lookC at The National Association for Pre-menstrual Syndrome (NAPS) website. There maybe info there that might help.
Let us know how you get on.
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Thanks wrensong very helpful x
Yes CLKD had that pmt years ago and relief once bleed. Very sensitive to changes hence upheaval following jab & covid. I am struggling to get back but I’m not giving up x
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Hi similar situation. Estradot 100 give me a reading of around 414 It has cleared up the original symptoms of severe muscle spasms and back/rib pain but has given me severe anxiety. Alll day and night anxious about my health
Tried testosterone but was intolerant higher red blood cell count
I hope we can all find something to help us. It’s a cruel comfort to know we aren’t alone x
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Sorry to hear that Ali, have you tried any progesterone?
I may ask my specialist again but I have a feeling it will may not agree with me but there are different types. I know b4 covid stuff I was ok on E alone but as Scampidoodle said it may settle the histamine issue I developed. Have you been in Estrogen only for long?
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Hi this reply is a bit late. I’ve been on estrogen only since august 2021. Initially 4 pumps gel then everol 100 patch then there were supply issues so now on Estradot 100. The estrogen dominance has been building up since I started it but in my ignorance of all anxiety symptoms and estrogen dominance I didn’t know what was happening. Doctors put me on antidepressants which didn’t help and I had intolerant side effects. I also truly believe they were suppressing the estrogen because when I came off them my original muscle spasm etc came back for a couple of days then as estrogen kicked in I felt quite cheery for about 5 days or so.
I need to say that my estrogen journey has been a bit strange. I’ve kept a diary of all things and for the gel and patches at various time points from starting each one I felt great some times it was nearly for 2 weeks others for just a few days The time points were 2 weeks after starting, 6 to 8 weeks then three months. After which symptoms came back or as it is now the estrogen dominance anxiety comes back. I hope this bit makes sense it’s been very strange!!!
Anyhow I went to Newson clinic on dec 6th and came off AD’s same time. I was prescribed Utrogestan and I don’t think I’m going to be able to tolerate it. I’m taking one 100mg tablet every other day and then to increase to every day which I did last night and I felt dreadful last night and was sweaty. I’m not sure how I’m going to tell if it’s the estrogen or progesterone that’s causing anxiety unless of cause it gets really really severe. I’m sorry this has been a very long post. I’m seriously at my whits end
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Ali P as you have no womb why don’t you try just 1 progesterone tablet when you feel the high oestrogen anxiety building. Having no womb you can get away with this, and don’t have to take the large amounts of prog that can be so debilitating. The good thing about this is you won’t have to go through progesterone withdrawal.
Symptoms oestrogen is too high is anxiety, and too much progesterone is depression x
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Hi perinow. Unfortunately the high estrogen anxiety is there all the time. I’ve tried reducing the patch alittle but it only reduced the anxiety slightly and original muscle spasm etc start to come back.
Back to meno clinic this next week. I had a melt down one day this week. Bad thoughts