Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lisa_Oz on November 11, 2022, 10:49:56 AM
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I need help and please be gentle with your comments. I am very vulnerable right now. 52, peri menopausal, history of anxiety and depression, which I’m on medication for. The antidepressant was switched in April.
I tried HRT again after stopping because of Utrogestan intolerance (even tried vaginally and that caused major mood issues). I originally went on because I had so many peri symptoms but it was my mood issues that I hoped would get better. Saw a private clinic and spoke with a hormonal and functional medicine GP and was given option of using Oestrogel for week to see how I felt then to add Utrogestan 100 vaginally to see how it made me feel. I started to feel better on Oestrogel (taking 1 pump). I took my 4th Utrogestan last night and my mood has gotten progressively worse. I feel like I can’t go on. Have no hope.
The other option is to try an Oestrogel cream with 25 mg Progesterone twice a day and add testosterone cream later after bloods. After I’m on that for 8 weeks, I will get a blood test at a certain point in my cycle to see how I am. Also will need pelvic scan to check lining of uterus. If this helps, I will pay for it. I spend nothing on anything else because I find no joy in anything. I did find the doctor very kind, patient and knowledgeable.
I am also waiting for my psychiatrist to be back from a 1 month holiday. I initially did well on my newer med but I was never this bad when I was on sertraline. So I’m wondering if I should speak to my GP that I need to switch back and find the safest way to do that.
I have a wonderful husband and a daughter with special needs that is so wonderful. If it wasn’t for them, I wouldn’t see a need to try to get better.
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Welcome to MM and sorry to hear about your problems with Utrogestan, you are definitely not alone. I can't go anywhere near the stuff. I thought I had suddenly become progesterone intolerant post menopause when I used it (100mg vaginally) but that was definitely not the case.
My opinion is 100mg progesterone is too high a dose in one hit and the maximum I would take is 50mg every day which I can do with zero side effects.
I would most definitely go for option two and use the combination cream with 25mg progesterone twice daily. I think you will find it far more tolerable.
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Thanks, Mary. I can’t believe how horribly it affects me. I just ordered the cream. I hope you are right and it helps. I’m also very interested in my blood test results that will be taken after I’m on it. More so for the more in depth analysis of my vitamin levels. I was in the low normal NHS range for the few that were checked in July. I’ve been supplementing with magnesium, vitamin D, curcumin and omega fish oils. (Hormone specialist agreed with all of them, since my bloods showed highish CRP, an inflammation marker)
I have been doing so much research on progesterone intolerance and I really wish there were more studies on Utrogestan at lower doses for people who have this issue.
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Hello Lisa and a warm welcome to the forum. I am sorry to hear things are so tough. I just want to say, you do not have to use ultrogestan if you cannot tolerate it. There are other progesterone options. For example, some people feel better taking two cerezette a day which is enough progesterone to protect the womb lining. I personally would use something else rather then to keep trying different ways of taking ultrogerstan.
I hope your GP is helpful and supportive when you have your appointment.
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Mollydolly
Can I ask did you get your hysterectomy for extreme progesterone intolerance on the nhs or did you have to go private? I have been battling with this for 10 years now and coming to the conclusion hysterectomy might be the only way. Although my GP friend tells me I won’t get it on the nhs for prog intolerance.
Flossieteacake I couldn’t even tolerate 1 x cerazette pill, so for us extreme prog intolerants that may be out x
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Molly thanks for letting me know I’m not alone. So pleased that you found a solution that works for you! I’m wondering if maybe I should go for a different antidepressant, since my main complaint was increased mood and anxiety since entering peri. I definitely have other symptoms, like irregular periods and night sweats, but I feel like I could accept that if I could just get my head right. At least for now. But if my mood symptoms are due to hormone issues, I wonder if I could get relief from a different antidepressant or if I need to get the right balance…it’s just so hard trying to make big decisions when I’m feeling like this!
Flossie, thanks for the welcome and your advise. I just did a quick search on Cerezette. Have you heard any success stories for people who couldn’t tolerate Utrogestan but did ok with Cerezette? I will keep looking.
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Molly thanks for letting me know I’m not alone. So pleased that you found a solution that works for you! I’m wondering if maybe I should go for a different antidepressant, since my main complaint was increased mood and anxiety since entering peri. I definitely have other symptoms, like irregular periods and night sweats, but I feel like I could accept that if I could just get my head right. At least for now. But if my mood symptoms are due to hormone issues, I wonder if I could get relief from a different antidepressant or if I need to get the right balance…it’s just so hard trying to make big decisions when I’m feeling like this!
Flossie, thanks for the welcome and your advise. I just did a quick search on Cerezette. Have you heard any success stories for people who couldn’t tolerate Utrogestan but did ok with Cerezette? I will keep looking.
There are members on here. :) There are also members on different progesterone's that are able to tolerate them too.
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Yes, they’re the lucky ones 😀
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Thanks Molly. I had looked at Prof Studd but thought he recommended Utrogestan for 7 days. I barely made it 4. I hope I can find a progesterone I can tolerate. I’m reconsidering the coil. Wish it were easier.
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Morning
I am reading this after 2 days of being on my utrogeston cycle and I feel rotten! Everything in my body just feels so heavy and tired. Boobs are swollen and sore. It’s my second month on this regime and I’m ok on the Lenzetto spray alone but 2 weeks of feeling like this makes me question if it’s worth it.
I changed from Evorel sequi as i felt I needed more oestrogen but i tolerated the norethisterone really well in the patch so it’s quite frustrating. The only other progesterone i was offered with the Lenzetto was a mirena coil and I’m worried if I don’t like that it’s a pain to get it removed again :(.
People make out Utrogeston is a good choice as it’s bio-identical which sounds good but the reality is a bit grim for me!
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Morning Ches
Yes everyone talks about Utrogestan being the gold standard but certainly not for me! I’m sorry you have issues, too. I didn’t take it last night and already feel so much better. My mood was getting so low it scared me.
I went to a menopause support group in my town last night and Mirena coil was again recommended. I am due to see my GP in 2 weeks and if he assures me he will remove the coil with no delay I will reconsider it. Will have to get it fitted at a sexual health clinic, since my surgery doesn’t do it anymore.
The woman leading the group didn’t do well on Mirena after not tolerating Utrogestan. She is now taking desogestrel two tablets a day, which is off license but has worked for her. I’m also looking into that but will require a specialist, I don’t think my GP would do that without someone else recommending it.
Not an easy path or decision for ladies who are Utrogestan intolerant!
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Ches and Lisa, I have been a member of MM for nearly 10 years now and I would say that problems with Utrogestan is the most frequently discussed topic on here.
I'm sure some women get on with Utrogestan but I think a lot of women are making the best of a bad job because there is no other form of body identical progesterone that is readily available. Much of the problem (in my opinion) is the 100mg dose in one hit.
You could try Cyclogest progesterone which is a wax based, body identical, vaginal pessary that can be cut into 50mg doses. I bought some here in Spain to have on standby but I have not tried it yet because I'm doing well with Darstin gel.
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Thanks Mary. I’m not sure my GP would prescribe Cyclogest. Do you have any advise as to what to say or where to go?
Yesterday morning I was desperate and ordered my BHRT that was prescribed by Marion Gluck clinic. It contains:
Estradiol 0.25mg/ Progesterone 25mg per 0.3mL dose cream in HH base x 50mL
which it says to take twice a day.
I am sooooo confused. I can’t figure out what to do. Mirena, prescribed cream, desogestrel, cyclogest…go to Spain and get your gel???
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Apologies Lisa, if I were you I would stick with the cream you have ordered. The Cyclogest suggestion was more generic and to have as a back up if all else fails - I think it's always helpful to have a contingency plan!
I happily used 50mg progesterone lozenges and latterly progesterone drops and had great success with them for well over 3 years. Fortunately my experience with these products didn't resemble Utrogestan in any way, shape or form.
I am currently and successfully (so far) trialling Darstin for two reasons. Firstly, cost and secondly, Brexit - since you (UK) Brexited it is no longer viable for the specialist pharmacy to post to EU states and I was having to ask friends to receive it and forward it on to me.
You might want to check out my compounded hormones thread in the Alternatives section on here. I will bump it up for you!
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Hi Lisa & Ches, sorry to know you are both struggling with progesterone :( but I second what Mary G says about Utrogestan being very problematic for some of us - me included, so you are far from alone in that. I share Mary G's sense that the minimum 100mg Utrogestan dose is way too high for some of us & wonder whether women of small frame/low BMI may have particular probs with it.
There's also the issue that progesterone can potentiate thyroid hormone, so that can be an added complication for those of us on thyroid replacement.
Mary G, I have never seen a Cyclogest pessary, so are you saying they are of a size that the 200mg version can be quartered?
Wx
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Molydolly good for you getting it on the nhs. I’ve a feeling I’ll have to pay if I decide to go down that route as I don’t have any issues except prog intolerance.
MaryG is right when she says utrogestan is the most discussed topic on here. It’s just too strong, a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach.
Liza_Oz you could work your way one by one through the suggestions you’ve listed. The only problem with this is it is time consuming and there’s no guarantee you’ll feel well while doing it. If I were you though I wouldn’t go for the mirena. I say this as someone who trialled it for 6 months and still had to have it removed for intolerance.
They say utrogestan is the gold standard as it is the only body identical prog on the nhs. But so are cyclogest and Lutigest. I have tried cyclogest as you can buy it here over the counter in Spain were I live. Unfortunately, I didn’t like it. I have just trialled Lutigest which I had to obtain on private prescription. I will report what I think once I’ve gone through withdrawals (often the worst part with prog) x
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Thank you Mary, Wren and Peri. It helps me so much speaking to those that understand. My older sister has almost zero menopausal symptoms so although she tries, I know she thinks I should just be able to cope without any meds.
Peri please do update us as to how you do. I really hope it’s successful.
Mary thanks for bumping the post. I will have a read through.
Ok so I will try the cream when it arrives. 🤞🤞🤞🤞 it works.
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Lisa, good luck with the cream and please come back and let us know how you get on.
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I agree with the other lovely ladies Lisa. Progesterone cream was the first thing I could tolerate, not straight away but I can now, so definitely give it a whirl.
Mx
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Ahhh, thank you March. There are so few positive posts on BHRT creams so it is great to hear it works for you. Mine will be a combo of progesterone and estrogen. Already I’m worrying about what ifs (I’m so very good at worrying!)
What if I need more estrogen…can I add my Estrogel? I will be due for blood tests after I have been on for some time, which I know can be unreliable). I’m hoping I can email the prescribing dr with that question if needed, without having to pay again!
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Hi Molly
Thanks. Today is better. xx
It definitely makes it hard. I’m sorry you felt the same. Someone recently posted it felt like they were taking poison on the Utrogestan days and that is exactly how I feel. I was really hoping I could at least make it to day 7 but I will not try that again. It was too scary.
If this cream does not work, I really don’t know what I will do. I’m currently feeling ok (not great) on my 1 pump of Oestrogel, which really makes me think this is a hormonal mood issue which won’t be helped by upping or changing my antidepressant.
I may have to consider hysterectomy like you did though I know it is a big decision. I’m so pleased it worked for you.
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Hi Molly. It’s a thought but I think I am soooo sensitive to both Oestrogel and Utrogestan. Yesterday, I accidentally used two pumps of Oestrogel (my old dose) :o I guess due to brain fog. I felt jittery and anxious the whole day and night. So upping the dose may not work. But maybe a switch to patches would be warranted.
I guess I should try all options before considering a hysterectomy. My mom had one at 54. She passed away this past February. I just asked my dad why she had it and he had no idea. I think it just wasn’t talked about at all. I’m 52 so I wonder if part of the reason was mood fluctuations
Thank you Molly and everyone else here who has taken the time to post. I genuinely thought I was going crazy and even though I am still worried I won’t ever get back to who I was before it helps having you lovely ladies to listen
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Hello.
Just a note on cyclogest as it was mentioned above as to whether GP would / could prescribe.
I take cyclogest.. well took.. it isn't working for me. But anyway I have to get prescription from hospital Gynae ( phone appt) and collect from hospital pharmacy. My GP can't do it and I can't have it sent to my chemist. No idea if this is standard or an individual thing.. thankfully a neighbour works at hospital otherwise it's £80 taxi so she picks it up for me
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Thanks Armadillo.
I didn’t think my GP would prescribe. I’m feeling like my body won’t like any progesterone but I guess I have to keep trying…
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Holding your hand and nodding.
I dont have the answers.. i have tried so many different types now.. the cyclogest was least bad for me but still horrific.. your opening post had me nodding.
I am sat here waiting for my gynae to ring to see what my options are as i cant keep doing progesterone phases.. its a risk to life.. i know we need to protect our uterus and would really like my body to conform but progeseterone sensitivity is a big problem for some of us.
keep talking.. this forum is amazing.. my last progesterone phase people held my hand and helped me get through it.. complete strangers showing so much care.. hang in there
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Hello ladies.
Lisa_Oz - I have been using Cyclogest pessaries for a while, they were prescribed by Newson Health and I believe they are usually used in fertility treatment. I don't know if they are available from the GP but it may be worth asking.
The doctor at NH said I only needed a 100mcg dose but as the pessaries contain 200mcg I was told to cut them in half.
I recently needed to order some more and now it appears that the 200mcg version is out of stock. I spoke to NH and they sent me the 400mcg pessaries with the instruction to quarter them!
If you want to try Cyclogest but the available pessary dose is too high you could follow the advice given to me and reduce the dose by cutting them.
I hope this helps you and take care.
K.
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Armadillo, what dose of Cyclogest do you take? This is very important because it will make a huge difference as to how will you tolerate it. If you take it in high doses, it's unlikely to be much better than Utrogestan.
Kathleen, it's interesting that Newson Health supply Cyclogest but do you have to take 100mg every day? You would probably feel much better on a lower dose ie 50mg.
When I switched from a cycle to continuous combined HRT, I did a quick calculation and worked out that I was using far more progesterone by taking 50mg every day (18,250 mg per annum) than on a 7 x 100 mg cycle (8,400 mg per annum). I cheated like mad on the cycle and probably took half that amount. Even if you doubled the 7 day progesterone and took 100mg for 14 days each month (16,800 mg per annum) that would still take you below my 50mg every day.
I have found that 50mg progesterone has no side effects.
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Thank you Kathleen and Mary
If my cream doesn’t work then I will ask the clinic about Cyclogest and see if I tolerate 50 mg.
I am very thankful to have you all here to listen to me and give advise. I’m an American living in the UK, so I think Thanksgiving is on my mind!
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It's good to have you with us Lisa_Oz. Keep posting & please don't be alone with any worries, that's what the forum is for. :hug:
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Armadillo, what dose of Cyclogest do you take? This is very important because it will make a huge difference as to how will you tolerate it. If you take it in high doses, it's unlikely to be much better than Utrogestan.
Kathleen, it's interesting that Newson Health supply Cyclogest but do you have to take 100mg every day? You would probably feel much better on a lower dose ie 50mg.
When I switched from a cycle to continuous combined HRT, I did a quick calculation and worked out that I was using far more progesterone by taking 50mg every day (18,250 mg per annum) than on a 7 x 100 mg cycle (8,400 mg per annum). I cheated like mad on the cycle and probably took half that amount. Even if you doubled the 7 day progesterone and took 100mg for 14 days each month (16,800 mg per annum) that would still take you below my 50mg every day.
I have found that 50mg progesterone has no side effects.
Hi MaryG
sorry to jump in, I take utro vaginally 100g just wondered how you take 50g since 100g is the lowest dose.
Do you take it every other day?
Thanks so much xx
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I'm really sorry to read your post and I can empathise with the anxiety and depression issues totally. I've had enormous struggles over the years. I "found" HRT May 21 and it has made a huge difference to me Oestrogel and Utrogestan vaginally. However, in the last month or so I've started to struggle again mentally and having done a lot of reading I think there is a link to my gut health, so this might be another piece of the jigsaw worth exploring? In my case, I think my gut health is usually okay to good, but I've been struggling with hip pain (I suspect i need a replacement at the grand old age of 53!). The nurse practitioner at my local practice put me on really strong pain killers and omeprazole to "protect" my stomach from the painkillers. I had been taking a low dose of ibuprofen daily for months before that. I'll not go on, but essentially I got a bad stomach as soon as I started the regime. I stop one painkiller, kept going with the other and the omeprazole - and my mental health took a dive. On reading up both the painkillers and omeprazole reduce the good bacteria in your gut and increase the bad stuff. There is a suspected link between gut health and mental health. One fact i learned was that 80-95% of your serotonin is produced in your gut!! I've stopped all the new meds so not taking any painkillers at all now and I'm eating stuff that will improve my gut health. The biggest boost i get if drinking natural Kefir - not the flavoured stuff as that has added sugar. The effect is not quite instant, but I do definitely pick up after drinking it. I'm at least temporarily cutting out any white sugar and getting sweetness from fruit - bananas, papaya and pineapple all good for feeding your good gut bacteria.
It's not terribly onerous to give it a go and it might help.
Take care and I hope you find the right balance of hormones for you.
xxxxx
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Hi Anne G, following on from what you say about the gut's relationship with mental health, just a quick mention of some interesting books for anyone who might want to explore this further:-
Gut - Guilia Enders
The clever guts diet - Dr Michael Mosley.
Kathryn Marsden also has a couple of good reads on gut health.
Currently reading What Every Woman Needs to Know About her Gut - Prof Barbara Ryan (Gastroenterologist) & Elaine McGowan (Dietitian) which covers the interaction between sex hormones & gut health.
Won't say more here for fear of derailing the thread.
Wx
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Thank you Anne
I believe gut health definitely plays a part. Sorry you are struggling more again. I have had Kefir before but I know it had sugar in it. I will look for a plain version. I am also trying to eat more protein. I know I don’t get enough. I’ve also been trying to lengthen my eating window after doing intermittent fasting for years. This year I have been fasting 20 hours a day and from what I’ve read, it’s not recommended to fast so long when you are peri or menopausal.
The trouble is, when I’m down or anxious, I can’t eat. I’m still overweight but have lost weight these past few months simply because I have to force myself to eat. I used to love food. But now I don’t get excited about anything.
Wren, I will look at the books. My husband has gut issues and I would like to try to help him. He has been so supportive to me. He has been reading everything he can about peri and mood issues and keeps reassuring me I will get better.
I was so low Tuesday night. Had a breakdown after reading a story about a woman who committed suicide not long ago because of peri menopause and mood issues. She tried so much to get better and couldn’t. I worry I won’t figure this out either
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Thank you Anne
I believe gut health definitely plays a part. Sorry you are struggling more again. I have had Kefir before but I know it had sugar in it. I will look for a plain version. I am also trying to eat more protein. I know I don’t get enough. I’ve also been trying to lengthen my eating window after doing intermittent fasting for years. This year I have been fasting 20 hours a day and from what I’ve read, it’s not recommended to fast so long when you are peri or menopausal.
The trouble is, when I’m down or anxious, I can’t eat. I’m still overweight but have lost weight these past few months simply because I have to force myself to eat. I used to love food. But now I don’t get excited about anything.
Wren, I will look at the books. My husband has gut issues and I would like to try to help him. He has been so supportive to me. He has been reading everything he can about peri and mood issues and keeps reassuring me I will get better.
I was so low Tuesday night. Had a breakdown after reading a story about a woman who committed suicide not long ago because of peri menopause and mood issues. She tried so much to get better and couldn’t. I worry I won’t figure this out either
I can understand how distressing it must have been for you to read something so sad. Although this was so very sad this does not mean something similar will happen to you. If you are having thoughts of ending your life then please share them. We will all support you on here. I think often when having such thoughts people withdraw and this is one of the worst responses as nobody can reach them. You are going through such a difficult time but it will not always be this way.
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Hi Lisa, I'm so glad to know your husband is so supportive.
I wonder whether you feel you could raise the lack of appetite & fasting history with your doctors if you haven't already. If you could get some support with this, to be sure you are getting all the nourishment you need, it should help you feel better both physically & mentally. Apart from anything else, I'm sure you know that blood sugar peaks & troughs can play havoc with our bodies & minds & for that reason many of us find we have to change the way we eat at this time of our lives. There are lots of threads on here discussing the importance of blood sugar stability if you feel this is something it might help you to look into further.
You will get through it, there are many lovely postmeno women here who have found that life gets easier when the chaos of fluctuating hormones in peri ends & we have more background stability to help us adjust to the new normal.
Wx
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Flossie I was thinking of posting to hear from people who got through this. I just feel like with my history of MH issues just complicates it. I will though. I do need hope. I am not thinking of ending my life but do also struggle with the thought that I will never get better. I remember how I used to be happy and look forward to things. I miss that.
Wren, yes I definitely need to eat more regularly. It’s been almost 24 hours since I ate but my stomach is in a knot and I just can’t make myself eat. I may take a diazepam to see if it helps. I try to avoid using them. I was on Xanax for years when I lived in the US and I’ve done well with getting myself off taking them regularly, but am still prescribed diazepam as needed.
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Flossie I was thinking of posting to hear from people who got through this. I just feel like with my history of MH issues just complicates it. I will though. I do need hope. I am not thinking of ending my life but do also struggle with the thought that I will never get better. I remember how I used to be happy and look forward to things. I miss that.
Wren, yes I definitely need to eat more regularly. It’s been almost 24 hours since I ate but my stomach is in a knot and I just can’t make myself eat. I may take a diazepam to see if it helps. I try to avoid using them. I was on Xanax for years when I lived in the US and I’ve done well with getting myself off taking them regularly, but am still prescribed diazepam as needed.
There are a few of us on here who have MH issues including me. I understand how that just complicates and makes it all seem so much harder. I think it can help to take each day as it comes. I know if I think of the future I just feel overwhelmed.
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Lisa, I hear you on the knotted stomach - worry has so often done that to me, as it does to many, many people. But postmenopause I find I cope better, so that situations that had an extreme effect in the past are now easier to take in my stride.
I had no access to MM during peri & didn't know anyone else going through menopause, which I found a very difficult, isolating & frightening time. Things that helped me most were the support of my partner, learning how & setting aside a little time to meditate daily, a few months of counselling with a mindfulness oriented counsellor, getting out for walks & cycling when energy allowed, resting when I could to compensate a little for the relentless insomnia, learning as much as I could about what happens to us in menopause for reassurance & changing the way I ate to stabilise blood sugar. I found I could no longer get by on a predominantly vegetarian diet as I had for some years & had to ensure I ate a good portion of protein with every meal, together with the complex carbs & wide range of fruit & veg I'd already habitually eaten. I also found I couldn't go more than 4 hours without eating & exercising on empty became an absolute no-no.
It needed a multi-pronged approach, but all those strategies helped me get through the worst & I've mentioned them not to be prescriptive, but because sometimes a tiny snippet of info or detail from someone else's experience can help turn a life around. With the support of your doctors, your partner & if you want it, the forum, you will get there too.
Try to be as kind to yourself as you would to a friend & remember that none of what happens to us at this life stage is our fault.
Wx
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Thank you ladies.
Your kind words help so much. This forum is amazing. I don’t know where I’d be without it. xx
I am going to try eating at regular times. Husband took over making dinner for me tonight. Salmon and rice with veggies. But I forgot to tell him rice had to be covered so he’s trying to fix it right now!
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Thank you ladies.
Your kind words help so much. This forum is amazing. I don’t know where I’d be without it. xx
I am going to try eating at regular times. Husband took over making dinner for me tonight. Salmon and rice with veggies. But I forgot to tell him rice had to be covered so he’s trying to fix it right now!
Eating at regular times, even if it is a small bit, is such a good idea. I hope you enjoy your meal. :)
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discogirl, I used to get my 50mg progesterone from a compounding pharmacy but now I'm using Darstin progesterone gel which I buy in Spain.
If you can get hold of Cyclogest vaginal vax pessaries, you could easily cut them into 50mg doses.
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Thanks Flossie. I managed to eat some. Hubby did a great job. Normally, I would feel guilty since he works all the time and cooking is my thing (used to really love doing it, too) but I’m taking advise from everyone on here and going to be as kind to myself as I can.
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You’re doing great Lisa and so is your great hubby.
Hope the rice wasn’t too stodgy ;D
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Hi Lisa_Oz, you're definitely not alone, I also had an awful reaction to Utrogestan and took myself off it as I was terrified of the places it was taking my head to, it was giving me very strong suicidal thoughts. I'd had very low mood before starting HRT and on Evorel conti patches previously, but nothing compared to the horror show of the Utrogestan. I was then put on Tridestra - where you only have to tolerate the progesterone once every three months - and eventually ended up with a Mirena coil which I've had for a year now and on balance is by far the best option I've tried. Mood overall is a lot better and I feel better cos I'm not exhausted from the extreme mood swings - it's more constant most of the time.
Like you, I made the Menopause Clinic where I had mine fitted promise me they would remove the Mirena immediately it I had another bad reaction. A Sexual Health Clinic would also do this, I think. If the worst had happened I was prepared to take myself to a&e or an urgent care walk-in centre to ask them to remove it as an emergency.
Utrogestan - maybe generic progesterone prescription in general - is good for some but like others have said, it does seem to cause huge problems for a lot of us - something is very wrong with that, IMO. Would love to see some research into this. My other question into the ether is, if a low, constant dose of vaginal progesterone via a Mirena coil is acceptable for keeping the womb lining healthy, why do we get prescribed much higher doses to be taken orally as the so-called gold standard? I don't understand it.
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March…thank you. Rice was better than I thought it would be!
Peri…Thank you. I feel better knowing I’m not alone. This board has helped so much. Not that I’m happy others are going through this hell! I will give Mirena a chance if my new creams don’t work. It will equate to 50mg per day. I know they are not what the NHS recommends but I am prepared to get frequent scans if I can start to feel better. As for your question (can’t figure out how to only quote part of post)
“My other question into the ether is, if a low, constant dose of vaginal progesterone via a Mirena coil is acceptable for keeping the womb lining healthy, why do we get prescribed much higher doses to be taken orally as the so-called gold standard? I don't understand it.”
Agree 💯
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Lisa .. i think it was you that had concerns about how quickly theyd take mirena out f it wasnt for you.. i hope it does the trick. For me i needed mine out asap.. phoned and was called in the next afternoon.. this was hospital gynae not GP as i need gas and air for it .. mental health issues (flashbacks to miscarriage). So they can move fast just make sure you have the reassurance you need.
Years back when i tried the implant .. i couldnt get anyone to take it out.. as it would be wasting nhs money a si hadnt given it a chance.. grrr... we taxid to nearby city and a private gp took it out.. expensive but a good back up plan .. and it kept me alive.
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Cyclogest - i cant remember dose.. but was one in morning and one in evening, then just bedtime, then every other day.. just not an option.. very glad to be off it now. have returned it t chemist.
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Holding everyones hand.. its so blooming hard getting it right
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Thank you Armadillo for sharing your ideas and experience. It infuriates me to hear they would not remove yours when you wanted it out!
I am just today starting with a compounded cream that I am to use twice a day that will provide 50mg total of progesterone. I have gone to a private clinic. I know it’s controversial but I am going to see if this works. I am ok with getting frequent scans of my womb. I am NOT ok with feeling the way I have for so long.
Sending hugs to everyone out there who may need one at the moment. x
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Hi Lisa_Oz
I haven't read the whole of this thread so not au fait with your situation but just seen your last post here.
I don't know what oestrogen you are on but just to say - re the compounded cream. It's not that it's controversial as such - it's that it really cannot be ganranteed to provide sufficient protection to you uterus if you re already taking oestrogen. There is no standard nor trials to show what dose etc works and this is why the British Menopause Society does not recommend nor endorse its use in any way.
Not trying to be scare-mongering but just concerned on your behalf that you could experience problems with thickening of your uterus going down this route - but also this will be affected by the dose of oestorgen you are taking and also where you are in menopause to some extent.
If you are still ovulating regularly and on a low dose of oestrogen then it would be less of a concern as you would be producing your own progesterone.
Just trying to be helpful here. All the best
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. I appreciate you making sure I’m aware of the safety issues. They are valid points.
I have done so much research and feel like this is the right route for me. The oestrogen dose equates to less than 1 pump of Oestrogel. I think I am a very slow metaboliser of meds. I believe I am still ovulating. My period comes about every 23 days.
I will get scans often to check my uterus lining if this regimen works. The fact that so many women cannot tolerate the recommended dose of Utrogestan, yet no studies have been done to check efficacy of lower doses of progesterone (especially when only taking low doses of oestrogen) really upsets me. I worked in pharma for 15 years and while they have many positives, profit is always the goal. And I don’t see studies like you mentioned being done simply because the profit margin would not make it attractive.
My doctor who has prescribed the medication works for the NHS as well and has expressed her frustration that there are not suitable alternatives for lowering the progesterone dose for women with increased sensitivity.
I was researching hysterectomy as another option because my depression and anxiety can reach dangerous levels. If this compounded cream works for me and I can avoid that, I will take steps to ensure I keep myself and my uterus well.
Today is a better day…not great, but one day I may get there again.
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Lisa, I don't know about the clinic you use but my clinic in London insisted on regular transvaginal scans and it was a condition for prescribing progesterone ie no scan, no prescription so the safety side of it was a non issue for me. My clinic didn't like anything more than 4mm for women on a continuous combined regime. They also insisted on regular breast scans if they prescribed oestrogen.
My gynaecologist said that generally speaking, if you are using a continuous combined regime with inadequate progesterone you will bleed most of the time. If you use oestrogen only and never take progesterone (which is not recommended obviously) then your womb lining will either build up to a dangerous level or once it gets too thick, it will break away and cause a very heavy bleed - I know mine does this if it goes beyond 8mm.
God knows why pharmaceutical companies don't produce progesterone at a 50mg dose, it's so shortsighted. The doctor at my clinic also worked for the NHS and lamented the lack of choice.
It's worth pointing out that the compounded hormone route is a last resort for women who literally can't use any of the branded progesterone products and like yourself, are on the verge of a hysterectomy. It's by no means the first port of call for most women and most of us, myself included, would rather spare ourselves the expense and use a bog standard progesterone without having to endure life ruining side effects. For that reason alone, compounded hormones should be viewed more sympathetically.
For many of us the choice is stark, compounded progesterone or a hysterectomy which is major surgery.
I'm still trialling Darstin but I still don't know how well it's working but I'm happy to take the risk.
I really hope it works out for you.
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Thanks Mary.
I have my period now and bleeding is light. Comparable to most months. My cycle has shortened to about 23 days lately. If my cycles stay similar and I don’t bleed more than normal do you know if that indicates my lining is shedding adequately?
Scans are mandatory for me before I can get repeat prescriptions but I wasn’t told I would need a breast scan. They did ask me when I had my last one which was this month. (Came back fine…thankfully)
I hope the Darstin works for you, too.
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Trying HRT again on a lowered dose of estogen (Estradot 25)
The utrogestan I wondered if you could chop the 100mg capsules in half and take anally.....
My doc prescribed 100mg daily orally or 100mg every other day vaginally (i found this better than oral but it changed the flora of vagina...which was weird).
I wonder if its the large amount at once that is causing the low heavy mood....
Has anyone tried half a tab anally .....?
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Hi. I know last post was long ago but can someone help me please?
I'm on oestrogel 2 pumps, and utrogestan 100mg , I only tried one utrogestan vaginally and ended up calling an ambulance! I had such a major bad reaction to it. Within 30 mins i became a crazy woman, wide awake for 24 hours, heart palpitations, chronic anxiety, worse than my usual anxiety. I can't stop my gel cause it causes chronic migraines and other symptoms, sweating, mood.. I'm on utrogestan because of a very high breast cancer risk, but I can't tolerate it at all. I don't know what to do.
I booked a private meno specialist who has prescribed me oral estrogen and oral progesterone, has anybody had this kind of HRT ?
My mental health is chronic too, I'm so scared of trying antidepressants due to being very sensitive to medication and a poor metaboliser. I tried venlafaxine, ended up in A&E, tried Citalopram, couldn't see and couldn't walk, super dizzy. Fluoxetine gave me horrendous headaches.
Dr just prescribed me Mirtazapine, I'm petrified of trying it.
I have every single horrendous physical symptom you can imagine, hospitalised many times for them. Been to crisis team who are useless as I've wanted to not carry on anymore and they just tell you it all ok, take your medication!! So easy for them to say.
I'm absolutely desperate and perimenopause I know is making my anxiety disorder so much more debilitating.
Thanks